I don't understand why "Don't let your friends joke about genocide." is controversial to you.

You should be more careful about the people you stand by. If "various" blockers have all tagged you as part of the movement, the factor in common is you. What are you doing that makes them think you're a Nazi/aitright?

Because springing onto a pro-LGBT site to claim white Christian males are the real victims doesn't help your case. Are you finding you do this lots of places?

Umm, a quick search shows you make lots of comments like this on avowed Nazifurs pages. Like, dudes actually saying we should purge non-whites—with Nazi icons and everything. Do you see why this could make you look like a Nazi/altfurry?

I'm really bummed to have this conversation with you. You're a long-time watcher and I really liked seeing your comments. They always made me smile.

Well. Never expected this from you.

As if I could have friends who joke about genocide to be honest...
This include the sick comment I read before posted by plenty of idiots of throwing people from helicopter: a criminal genocidal practice committed by fascist regimes in south america (openly supported by Usa btw) and targeting not just "commies" but whatever kind of political oppositor in such nations (Chile, Argentina, etc...).


BTW: reading Sixes Wild Echoes on Kindle, some time ago I also finished Windfall and needs to remember sending you a note with a number of comments xd

I replied out of thread below.

It's sickening. Those people have no place in this fandom. You can't tell other furries they deserve to die because of their race or LGBT status or whatever and then just say "LOL it was a joke!" It doesn't matter. You can't erase the fact that you said someone's life was worthless to you as just a dumb joke.

Also, I'm from North Dakota, which is basically communist central in the US, so I don't take kindly to their anti-commie talk. Those are my ancestors, my neighbors, my friends.

Ah okay, I look forward to reading it. Nice to hear feedback on my work from a furry in another part of the world.

FA doesn't have a like function, but... * like * XD

*likes back* X)

This sort of reminds me of something I realized about American politics too just recently. I think it's become way too much a thus versus them thing for both sides and less about what's best for the country and it's sad. I mean, when you feel the need to call someone an enemy of freedom for asking where someone else got their information, you are way, WAY too in deep into rabidly hating everyone who disagrees with you.

Maybe my brain is broken, but I've never been 100% certain of something in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If enough people adamantly believed the sky wasn't blue, I would at least look in to what they had to say before dismissing it to see if they had a point and maybe I was wrong. :p

Yeah. Evidence is really important. We need to make our choices based on good data, not our predispositions.

For example: while our brains love the idea that everything is symmetrical, there is no equal and opposite movement to the Nazifurs. No organized group of furries is calling for the extermination of white people or straight people. All we have is a couple hundred Nazifurs shutting down our cons, doxxing people who speak out against them, and making lynching/rape threats to female, LGBT, and non-white furries.

Don't get me started on hearing people in positions to not have racist groups and such against them complaining about how hard they have it. I think one of the few times I actually got offended was when some anti-feminist guy was complaining about how rough men have it because they can't claim rape and...I kid you not, they said a woman can claim rape if she doesn't like the sex. Let's just say my reply included the phrase, "It must be tough living with some of the power instead of all of it." :p No offense, but straight, white, Christian males have no room to complain about persecution and oppression until they actually have been. :p

Ugh. A person has to tell themselves they're the real victim in order to justify being a bully.

Actually, I think I just heard some proof it's turned into us versus them for politicians at least. I actually heard several Republican's going on record to support a Senator/Representative, can never keep those two straight, that was pretty much every hardcore Christian stereotype you can imagine. He thought gay was something you could fix, abortion was evil in every scenario...anyway, several were supporting him despite knowing nothing about him and one literally came out and said that it didn't matter what he believed, he was the Republican candidate and he would support him over a Democrat.

So...yeah...wow. The country and morals can take a flying leap! He's in the right political party!

So... what determines someone to be a Nazifur? I mean, I read the comments you (Tempo) put and I saw a lot about genocide jokes or comments. So... yeah, what determines a furry is a Nazifur other than the genocide jokes?

Spreading conspiracy theories about specific religions or ethnic groups as a means of justifying attacking those people. Making death/rape threats again furries for being female or non-white. Waving Nazi flags around, even if they change the color to green or a rainbow.

Wow... I had never heard of "nazifurs"! (I live a sheltered, twitter-free life, OK?). It's so much the antithesis of everything I value most about "furrydom" (diversity, tolerance, peace, love, flamboyance, creativity, etc), I can't imagine why anyone with "Nazi" views would ever want to be associated with furries anyway. However, starting from your theory of hate addiction, perhaps it actually works better for these people to find something like "furrydom" where they can be "involved" but also find many things to hate? Perhaps the fundamental contradictions help to feed the addiction?

I agree 100% with your post but I do see a problem: you are very much creating a "them and us" situation where you are defining the in-group based on a set of values, while excluding others who fall outside those values. While virtually everyone will agree that Nazi hate-mongers ought to be excluded (you won't get any arguments from me), I'm sure there are other issues which many furries would disagree about. We should always be wary of the seduction of mere tribalism - the natural human instinct to form groups and exclude others, often based on arbitrary distinctions. I am wary of the cry "They aren’t real furries", although I want to emphasize that I entirely agree with regard to anyone who espouses or tolerates hate, violence or intolerance.

Hey man, I wish I'd never heard of them either. : P

Right, but we can't tolerate intolerance. That's the old Fallacy of the Centrist: that the truth is "always somewhere in between." There's no middle-ground with furries who want to exterminate all non-white and LGBT people. What would a compromise even look like? Only killing some of those folks? Real tolerance is actively reaching out to and including others, not passively letting whoever already has power continue to use it as they please.

Nazis don't belong in furry. As you said yourself, it's the "antithesis of everything I value most about "furrydom" (diversity, tolerance, peace, love, flamboyance, creativity, etc)."

As for it being "us vs. them," I would ask what else would be a moral response to literal neo-Nazis? Not all exclusion is evil. Sometimes, exclusion is the only moral thing to do. Kicking someone out of a group for saying we should kill everyone not in their tribe is not tribalism—it's showing you value the safety of the people in your group. I figure you've seen this, but for reference: The Geek Social Fallacies. http://plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

That being said, there are only a couple hundred of these guys, out of a fandom of 100,000s. That is what I mean when I say this is our fandom, not theirs. We cannot allow them to do as they please, threatening to rape and lynch furry artists for being female or black. Perhaps the most amazing thing about the furry fandom is that everyone is allowed to join in the fun, no matter what they look like. Surrendering the fandom to actual literal Nazis isn't tolerance—it's admitting we care more about not making a fuss than about their victims.

It's really a double-edged sword. People want to be tolerant and inclusive, so they say we have to allow the views of those we don't agree with to be expressed, and not ostracize them or infringe on their rights, in the U.S. the first amendment. At the same time, you can't tolerant pure hate and circular thinking that's conditioned the point of mental illness, where there's no real reasoning or getting through to people, outside of years of constant therapy. You end up with horrible groups like those who went to Charlottesville. So how do you condemn and exclude people for their intolerable evil stances, when merely having those beliefs borders on being unfit to live in society, while still maintain the rights of the whole? How do you prevent the slow decline into censoring people for everything? I see it on college campuses with protests of anyone who has even the slightest view that differs from the majority of the student body. Whether conservative or liberal, if a speaker who is virtually just an average example of that political party is invited to a college, there are huge protests and uproars. This is where the childlike fingers in ears, don't want to hear it, mentality comes into play.

It's all far more complex than it at first appears. With all that said, I can't condone the tolerance of evil people. We put murderers and rapists in prison. So obviously there have to be lines drawn by society as to what is acceptable. Being a Nazi can't be. Heck, if you told WWII veterans on this day, Veterans Day of all days, that Nazis had a right to speak and be heard, let alone protest and march, they'd probably deck you. I'm reminded of a moon landing conspiracy theorist confronting John Glen and getting decked. I probably shouldn't be so amused by that. When did we lose our way? The world is upside down. "Let Nazis speak" has been spoken never - by anyone sane. So yes, pressure them within the furry community, but I get the idea there will be a boiling point. This element always simmers and stews under real or imagined oppression. They're just going to get worse is my fear.

And how we ended up with this type of person in the fandom is beyond me. It really is contrary to the whole origin of everything that "furry" is. How can you be fine with unicorn-dragon-hyena hybrids with purple polka dots and 8 penises but against a culture or skin color within human society? How can you be against LGTB people? How can you read yiff and RP on Telegram to get off, only to turn around and condemn others for their horrible "perversions"?

I am utterly bewildered by it all. And yet there are completely sane and level headed conservative furs I've known for years and get along with. The problem is they're slowly either edging toward the alt-right as the leftists make them feel unwelcome, or they're getting their guard up and finding themselves excluded regardless of their relatively normal, conservative values. I'm talking G.W. era conservative values.

It really is a big mess. Great heavens, what has happened to easy going furry fandom and drama being about trivial matters that're blown out of proportion? How I miss those days. The FA protestors and so on. LOL Come back fluffier times. I want some peace. ;)

I hate to break it to you, but it's precisely people like you who are the real hate addicts in this fandom. I don't care how you word it. It doesn't matter how nice you try to make it sound. At the end of the day, you're still encouraging people to partake in what's essentially a smear campaign. Simply put, calling morally upright people "Nazis" and perpetuating a needlessly divisive "us versus them" mentality is not beneficial to this fandom at all. Promoting a shady blocklist in order to silence those who disagree with you is not "tolerant" or "inclusive" in the slightest. I've seen firsthand the devastating effects of what happens when people like you decide you want to "exile" people in this community. Needless to say, it's nothing short of heartbreaking. You're not "winning" any "fight" here, you're demonizing innocent people in your own fandom and telling them they aren't welcome anymore. It's wrong and it needs to stop. You do not have the right to pick and choose who gets to be a part of this fandom. That's not how communities work. Perhaps you might want to reconsider what kind of message you're really sending, since actions speak louder than words.