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Some advice for artists and supporters regarding Patreon
8 years ago
Commissions TOS HERE
First of all, I want to be completely clear that I'm against what Patreon did, of rising the amount of money it charges to patrons. And I completely understand the position of supporters that are leaving Patreon entirely. But I'll advocate here for a third party that's caught in the crossfire, that's the creators and artists, who are being abandoned by both sides. I won't speak about the multiple reasons why this is a bad thing or not. My personal standing in this is kinda in the middle, but I don't want to convince anyone of my point of view, but rather give everyone options of what to do, given that this is the status of things. And even if Patreon decides to change it's policies, many people will still stay away from it. I won't tolerate drama in this specific journal, but only what can offer more options for both artists and supporters.
For Artists who use Patreon:
- Don't jump out of Patreon yet. Instead start looking for different options that could give you a semi-regular income while another better option than Patreon arise. Don't throw away your projects and fight for them. It would be a great loss for everyone everywhere to have less original content, whatever your skill is.
- Form teams. Dealing with this type of issues is often better when you have backup. Collab with other artists and bring your fans and friends close tight. Everyone together will find a solution in the long term.
- Reduce costs. Creating original content takes time and money, Find the way to keep creating stuff while also staying within the limits of what you're earning, but don't stop no matter what. Eventually your supporters will come back and support you again, when they find the right way for them to do it.
- Widen your horizon. The internet is filled with people that would love to support you, outside of FA. Post at every gallery you can and every social media you can. Bring more people to your art everywhere, and you'll find those fans that are still wating for you to appear. There's enough people in the world to support all our projects, we just need to go and meet them.
- Create donation pools. Set a fixed amount of money you need to create a single element of content, and open it here or in any other of your galleries, so people can donate directly to you to keep creating your stuff.
- Use other platforms such as ko-fi and liberapay. Some of us who live out of the US have limited options, but those who can, should try to use whatever tool is available for them.
- And specially, Don't give up! We all face obstacles and this is a big one. But we can only be stronger after facing difficulties and rising above them. I repeat, the world won't be a better place if you stop giving back what you have to offer. So please, don't stop!
For Supporters and fans:
-Let's calm down, everyone. I know there's reason to be mad, but there's people that never did anything to hurt you and that's in the middle of the crossfire. They still need your help as badly as ever, if not more.
- Don't leave your artists alone at Patreon. Try to stay with them while they find another way to support their dreams. If you truly believe in the community, then you'll have to make this extra effort for them, so everyone can find a way to eventually move away from Patreon and still be able to keep creating their art.
- Choose to support the smaller artists, and drop the larger ones. There's no point in leaving everyone behind on their own. Again, if you truly believe in the community, leave your support from the bigger artists who are most likely to survive the crisis, and help those who are at risk of stopping their projects at all. I consider myself to be in the middle/higher level of support, so what I'm saying is "please drop your support for me and support the smaller patreon accounts!". The world won't be a better place if you let those projects die if you can actually do something about it right now.
- Stay on Patreon only if you care about the artists, not about the company. It's the artists who you are leaving alone, not the company. The artist with it's supporters will be able to eventually move out from Patreon and find another place to crate their community, but if you leave your artists alone in this crucial moment, that trust will also be broken.
- Stay in touch with your artists and help them find options to move on. Help them keep doing what they do in whatever way you can, not only by commissioning them, but also by offering options of where they can continue their original work.
- Donate to them however you can and as regularly as you can. If you truly care about what they do, then there's no reason to not keep doing this regularly outside of Patreon. If the intermediary is the problem, then show the artists that your truly care about them with no intermediary involved!
- Don't leave them alone. Stay closer with them now than ever. Choose, if you have to, who you'll help to survive, and leave to others the chance to be helped by the rest. If the community is as strong as everyone says, then each artist will have at least a small group of people who'll keep supporting them. But please, don't retrieve absolutely all your pledges just yet, because then you're certainly helping to bring many projects down.
I don't think that Patreon will take back it's decision, but even if it does, there's reason for many to leave. But I just want everyone to take notice that leaving your artists behind is not the right way to show you're mad. What happened will most likely trigger the need of more similar services everywhere and there will come a time when there will be an option for everyone. But right now there's a big risk that many projects can crumble if you don't support them. So please, stay with your artists a bit longer. There's no worst feeling in the world, than hearing hundreds of words of support but still seeing everyone leaving you to fight alone. The support has to be shown, not only said.
Criticize me all you want, because I'm sure many will do. But if you're not besting my ideas or giving constructive criticism, then I'll delete your comment. Because for once, I think someone had to step in and give the artist's version on this. The people who's putting all their effort and time into giving you something worthy, that can make you happy and that can bring out the best of the community once again.
For Artists who use Patreon:
- Don't jump out of Patreon yet. Instead start looking for different options that could give you a semi-regular income while another better option than Patreon arise. Don't throw away your projects and fight for them. It would be a great loss for everyone everywhere to have less original content, whatever your skill is.
- Form teams. Dealing with this type of issues is often better when you have backup. Collab with other artists and bring your fans and friends close tight. Everyone together will find a solution in the long term.
- Reduce costs. Creating original content takes time and money, Find the way to keep creating stuff while also staying within the limits of what you're earning, but don't stop no matter what. Eventually your supporters will come back and support you again, when they find the right way for them to do it.
- Widen your horizon. The internet is filled with people that would love to support you, outside of FA. Post at every gallery you can and every social media you can. Bring more people to your art everywhere, and you'll find those fans that are still wating for you to appear. There's enough people in the world to support all our projects, we just need to go and meet them.
- Create donation pools. Set a fixed amount of money you need to create a single element of content, and open it here or in any other of your galleries, so people can donate directly to you to keep creating your stuff.
- Use other platforms such as ko-fi and liberapay. Some of us who live out of the US have limited options, but those who can, should try to use whatever tool is available for them.
- And specially, Don't give up! We all face obstacles and this is a big one. But we can only be stronger after facing difficulties and rising above them. I repeat, the world won't be a better place if you stop giving back what you have to offer. So please, don't stop!
For Supporters and fans:
-Let's calm down, everyone. I know there's reason to be mad, but there's people that never did anything to hurt you and that's in the middle of the crossfire. They still need your help as badly as ever, if not more.
- Don't leave your artists alone at Patreon. Try to stay with them while they find another way to support their dreams. If you truly believe in the community, then you'll have to make this extra effort for them, so everyone can find a way to eventually move away from Patreon and still be able to keep creating their art.
- Choose to support the smaller artists, and drop the larger ones. There's no point in leaving everyone behind on their own. Again, if you truly believe in the community, leave your support from the bigger artists who are most likely to survive the crisis, and help those who are at risk of stopping their projects at all. I consider myself to be in the middle/higher level of support, so what I'm saying is "please drop your support for me and support the smaller patreon accounts!". The world won't be a better place if you let those projects die if you can actually do something about it right now.
- Stay on Patreon only if you care about the artists, not about the company. It's the artists who you are leaving alone, not the company. The artist with it's supporters will be able to eventually move out from Patreon and find another place to crate their community, but if you leave your artists alone in this crucial moment, that trust will also be broken.
- Stay in touch with your artists and help them find options to move on. Help them keep doing what they do in whatever way you can, not only by commissioning them, but also by offering options of where they can continue their original work.
- Donate to them however you can and as regularly as you can. If you truly care about what they do, then there's no reason to not keep doing this regularly outside of Patreon. If the intermediary is the problem, then show the artists that your truly care about them with no intermediary involved!
- Don't leave them alone. Stay closer with them now than ever. Choose, if you have to, who you'll help to survive, and leave to others the chance to be helped by the rest. If the community is as strong as everyone says, then each artist will have at least a small group of people who'll keep supporting them. But please, don't retrieve absolutely all your pledges just yet, because then you're certainly helping to bring many projects down.
I don't think that Patreon will take back it's decision, but even if it does, there's reason for many to leave. But I just want everyone to take notice that leaving your artists behind is not the right way to show you're mad. What happened will most likely trigger the need of more similar services everywhere and there will come a time when there will be an option for everyone. But right now there's a big risk that many projects can crumble if you don't support them. So please, stay with your artists a bit longer. There's no worst feeling in the world, than hearing hundreds of words of support but still seeing everyone leaving you to fight alone. The support has to be shown, not only said.
Criticize me all you want, because I'm sure many will do. But if you're not besting my ideas or giving constructive criticism, then I'll delete your comment. Because for once, I think someone had to step in and give the artist's version on this. The people who's putting all their effort and time into giving you something worthy, that can make you happy and that can bring out the best of the community once again.
I've seen a few people speak up, but I'd think someone like
"getting a job which is payed well."
That might sounds rude (which i sure dont want to, sorry if it just sounds for someone plain rude tbh) now but some artists out there do stuff only for hobby and others are "actually real artists which works IRL for companys and like". I call those actually "real" artists coz they learned it, studdy it and do it as "job". The most people here began as hobby artists and their dream was it more to "become a artist". I know a some people who began this way but, again, they ended up working for companys and still do freetime art stuff.
I can sure see why everybody is raging about but again, as someone who actually dislike the way patreon was ALREADY working (dont understand copyrights and trademarks; dont support copyrightholders; laughs about trademark holders; litterly a "paywall" creator; offers to many for to less; list goes on and on...), it was sure only a alternative before stuff "like this" could happen. Im also sure somewhat against it coz it just looks like a pretty bad excuse but still, people might should either "fight" against this OR look out for a alternative. It sounds hard but well, yea. that are actually the real opinions here. "Either you deal with it, dont deal with it or you do try something else."
Example, I know artists whom people list as not speaking up discussed the matter in depth in their streams. Or on their own patreon page and not here.
For example, there is a lot of talk over this in the streams. In fact, it was how I found out about the changes in the first place because people have been actively talking about it there.
I feel shitty for doing so, but patreon forced my hand... And I'm worried I may have to leave even more artists soon just to stay in budget...
They take the pledge out of your earnings...and also charge the fee to that as well. So they're double dipping on the fees there. Cause the earnings in your account have already been affected by fees already beforehand. =/
This is the part I don't hear enough people talking about.
In either case, the truth remains the same, the artists are being left alone and I'm sure they didn't do anything wrong. Again, I'm not defending what Patreon did, but I still don't see why supporters can't keep helping some of the creators they like to help them survive the crisis in the meantime while they move away from Patreon. Which most will eventually do. Is not even my case, but there are a lot of people who really need the help to keep their projects afloat. The side of the artist is one I didn't see expressed before either and that's why I posted this too.
If this bothers you, consider contacting your local government representation, but I wouldn't expect this type of thing to go away annnnny time soon at all.
But if you give more consistent support to those in the middle tier (it costs $1200-$2000 a month to live with independence in most areas of the US) then those people gain the ability to focus solely on their craft, and not be forced in a position that drains them or causes them to raise their commission costs or anything like that. It gives them the freedom to make art that makes them happy, that they came up with all on their own, that utilizes the skills they know the best.
Giving $1 to 50 artists has always been a far worse thing to do than giving $5 to 10 artists you truly love. This change of policy simply moves the suffering caused by such antics to the consumer instead of the creator.
https://www.change.org/p/patreon-pa.....l.combo_new_co
Patreon in their email about it seems solely interested in protecting the creators, they state that they want to help them. The creator set the prices for pledges, why is patreon overstepping that and charging the people who support the creator?
If Patreon had told creators we are raising the 5% fee to 7 or 10%, and not add fees to the supporters, I can understand a creator raising the pledge amounts. They have even said the creator cannot disable this for their pledgers. So now creators are losing money due to Patreon raising a creators prices. (when you simplify it.) So now a creator would have to lower their prices, for the pledges to remain the same.
So Patreon will be making more money, and the creators would make less because of the loss of supporters.
For patreon to say it's being used to stabilize their fluctuating fees, is total fabrication. Patreon could easily put a stop to the fluctuation without adding extra fees to the supporters.
This just sounds like a poor excuse by patreon to seem better to creators, while taking from both creator and pledger.
Yeah I'm definitely cancelling all my pledges.
Don't ever lose sight of why you've started drawing, as well as why you love to do it. As for me, I can only hope that your art will continue to amaze so many of us fans for years to come. Hang in there, and remember: faith, trust, pixie dust.
sappy fanboy motivational speech yaaaaaayI absolutely love creating comics and I sometimes feel it's the ONE thing I'm actually good at. So I'll keep doing it for as long as I can, even if I have to fight for it. So, at least for what depends on me, you can trust that I'll keep doing this for as long as I can :)
In either case, your pledge of $10 will more likely rise to $10.6 or so. It's a fairly big increase, but I hope you can still keep paying it if only to support your artist and not Patreon itself. I bet the artist you're supporting will be more than grateful :)
Its a shitty, cancerous practice that does far FAR more harm than good, especially to the average consumer. Thats why you see so many huge companies cutting corners and selling shit products and services that get worse every year. They literally do not give a shit about the consumer at all.
And I agree. I think marketing people deserve a big metaphorical slap in the face that they can't ignore, or to be fired for greedy practices, or even influencing the company they work for in a negative way. Same can be said of some lawyers that just sell their asses to the highest bidder. What a waste of good fucking skills... -_-
Now a lot of artists who put all their financial eggs in the Patreon basket are having to scramble because the bubble is bursting.
But not everyone who put a stake in the Patreon gold fields used it this way, and as with the California gold fields, many people rushed in without fully understanding (or even understanding at all) how the system worked fueled only with a dream of making "big bucks" off of their fans.
Again, not everyone used it this way, but it happened often enough that many fans and supporters, myself included, started being vocal about it, and we were, in turn, shot down with "you're just greedy and want everything for free".
It just comes down to Patreon being a system with flaws, becoming too big, too fast, filled with many users who don't understand how to use it properly, and this results in an even greater schism between artists and fans. Patreon is the chasm that forces the two apart, where the only bridge across is made out of dollar bills.
I encourage all US residents to talk to your local AG, I am meeting with mine in a couple weeks to give them copies of all my documentation. Patreon can not legally (at least in the US) just start taking more money from you. The courts have repeatedly held that failure to say NO does not constitute a yes. Add to that emails get lost, folks go on vacation, etc. So it would be up to Patreon to 100% prove you KNEW of the change to have even a smidgen of a leg to stand on for upping your pledge cost.
Meeting with authorities may seem like a lot of work for just a few pennies or dollars, but folks putting forth the effort to stand up is the only way these things are really fixed. These crimes are hard for authorities to prosecute because victims won't come forward the small loss is not worth the time it takes to file a complaint. So the bad companies just keep doing it because they get away with it.
If you live outside the US talk to your authorities to find out if they have broken the law. Let the authorities know MANY are affected, its not just a single person having a couple pennies or dollars taken from their account without consent.
Cody Wilson's alternative https://hatreon.net/
[yt]https://youtu.be/3Vq5eZz4A1k[/yt]
Information: https://www.buzzfeed.com/blakemontg.....z71#.npexE1o8K
In general, you will have to try and find a set of options that not only work for you and set well for you as well. I present this as information. Use it as you see fit.
Hopefully this information is useful.
Those that are bailing out, please think of the creators. Apparently Patreon just jammed this in there, no discussions, no 'What do you think" or whatever. about 2/3rd of my patronized creators have spoken up about this, almost universally appalled, many telling Patreon that they'd be happy continuing covering the fees for their patrons. I have just gained $15 in fees for transactions. I pay Paypal balance, which, IIRC, has the lowest 'hit'. And it _was_ one transaction per month, for about 27 creators. Now 27? The only logic I can crack out of this is a money-grubbing attempt by Patreon, as those extra 26 'transactions' don't, or at least didn't exist. (And if they go there, credit card companies hate tiny transactions, which is why the $.35 per. They also tend to charge a higher percentage for the same reasons.. Definitely fishy logic on Patreon's account.) Supposedly, it was done to improve creator's percentage and accounting. Buuuttt. Seems nobody _asked_ the creators if a: It was an issue. b:Is this a good solution, if that's the case. It stinks on rocks...
How many creators have been crippled by this "improvement"? Damn near every one of the ones I support. So please consider the creators, try to hang on or tighten the belt surgically, and we can see what happens next. (other options, Paypal unscrewing this mess or a miracle.)
I'm hanging on as long as I can. (fixed income and all that.) But, to many of the folk I patronize, those little bits help a lot. (Oh, and great timing Patreon. Do this in December, when people were depending on this funding to help get thru winter and the holidays... Well done.)
Sorry about the rantfest. Just tweaks several nerves and is already hurting folk I care for out there..
Again, as so well put by A_Blue_Deer above, remember who you originally signed up with Patreon as a contributor to help. Please don't leave them hanging if you can at all find a way.
Take care, God bless, a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year if you celebrate these. Prayers and good thoughts for a decent resolution to this mess. Stubat. (Just a patron, fanfic and art fan and, maybe, a creator, someday.)
https://blog.patreon.com/not-rollin.....t-fees-change/
Personally, I feel for the creatives out the that are caught in the middle of this but if this doesn't make you at least consider the other sites out that that offer the same service (and there are a few) with fewer headaches. Then you only allow the threat of this happening again to continue.