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Rape Culture
7 years ago
You know how when you have a reoccurring habit that you don't think about until someone points it out to you? In my case it was drawing "rapey" comics. Honestly It was something I never gave a second thought over. To me I was just drawing porn, and that's what I thought porn was for a long time until my bad habit was brought up, which actually surprised me! It was humiliating that I made comics of that nature second hand without really realizing what I was doing, but then I started looking over WHY I did that, and after much thought I think I might have the answer...
Rape Culture.
I grew up catholic, and my exposure to sex education was extremely limited. During sexual development all I was exposed too was rape stories from my single adoptive grandmother (due to how shocking they were to her) So that made my understanding of sex a skew. When I was finally exposed to porn, most of it was rapey in nature as well, furthering the conformation that it was just the norm of sexual behavior. I also end up hanging out with the guys way more then girls, and being seen as "one of the guys" Their guard was let down around me, and I got insight of how most males (not saying all) think of women, to put into terms, in lewd ways, which the talk boils down to "taking her like this, forcing her to do that," ect. and finally, my last point is how society in america as a whole treated rape victims (male and female) and women overall, by sweeping their voice on the topic under the rug, Not being taken seriously for the most part and poor handling of proper repercussions for such harassment, ect. All of these issues that finally came to light with the #me too movement in Hollywood and beyond. While I thought over this bad habit of mine for a few years now before the movement, it helped clear my thoughts and made me realize how my personal exposure and america society attitude during my time of growing up resulted in making such comics and art.
I've now realized what I executed poorly was the ideal of being submissive during sex. It was a blurred line for me the difference of submission and rape until now, and going forward I will make sure to be more clear in my future artworks. I apologize to any victims that might have come across my past comics and possibly be traumatized by them. I understand how a fiction scenario can affect a RL trigger response, and I feel horrible about that. v.v Thank you for your time and understanding where I came from on this subject matter...That is all for now at this time on this topic.
Rape Culture.
I grew up catholic, and my exposure to sex education was extremely limited. During sexual development all I was exposed too was rape stories from my single adoptive grandmother (due to how shocking they were to her) So that made my understanding of sex a skew. When I was finally exposed to porn, most of it was rapey in nature as well, furthering the conformation that it was just the norm of sexual behavior. I also end up hanging out with the guys way more then girls, and being seen as "one of the guys" Their guard was let down around me, and I got insight of how most males (not saying all) think of women, to put into terms, in lewd ways, which the talk boils down to "taking her like this, forcing her to do that," ect. and finally, my last point is how society in america as a whole treated rape victims (male and female) and women overall, by sweeping their voice on the topic under the rug, Not being taken seriously for the most part and poor handling of proper repercussions for such harassment, ect. All of these issues that finally came to light with the #me too movement in Hollywood and beyond. While I thought over this bad habit of mine for a few years now before the movement, it helped clear my thoughts and made me realize how my personal exposure and america society attitude during my time of growing up resulted in making such comics and art.
I've now realized what I executed poorly was the ideal of being submissive during sex. It was a blurred line for me the difference of submission and rape until now, and going forward I will make sure to be more clear in my future artworks. I apologize to any victims that might have come across my past comics and possibly be traumatized by them. I understand how a fiction scenario can affect a RL trigger response, and I feel horrible about that. v.v Thank you for your time and understanding where I came from on this subject matter...That is all for now at this time on this topic.
The problem and probably as to why people think there is a rape culture is how the legaly system works -innocent until proven guilty-, in conjunction with how damaged acutal rape victims often are and so they dont or cant go to the police right away wich slims down the chances of proving the rapists guilt even further. (not to mention in hollywoods case how monney seems to disrupt the blindness of justice a bit much)
A possible solution would be a complete media silence for both Accused and victim, making the victims life and coming forth to the police easier, as there isnt any more eyes on it than there absolutely need to be. As well as protection of falsely accused people, not getting word out until a conviction is out.
In case of premature reporting the one that reported it faces the same sentence the actual purpetrator would have
Innocent until proven guilty is one thing.
Shaming the victims, and placing blame on them outside the courtroom in media prior to trial (which happens a LOT)... THAT is the sort of thing that is being defined as "Rape Culture". "She dressed in some manner that showed skin... she must have wanted it." Is a VERY prevalent notion. In varying degrees, yes... but the fact is, it's a blind spot in most people's cognition - they simply don't analyze WHY they think that way... they just do.
CAN this go too far the other way? Yep. Would I prefer it be truly balanced - maybe that media blackout you mentioned? Hell yeah. Not gonna happen with out "must have sensational SOMETHING to see on the internet and TV" culture...
Intersectionality is how being, for example, a black woman is not simply having the combined issues of a black man and a white woman, (each as compared to a white man), but having to deal with things that come about because of the 'intersection' of the two categories.
What is being pointed out to you about rape culture is that there are multiple things within it. To use a racism analogy, racism isn't just refusing to hire people of a given race, but also things like hate crimes, bias in law enforcement, racial targeted voter suppression, etc.
of your other comment :
"Rape culture is thing like:
Saying "what happened to her wasn't really rape."
Saying that is just "boys being boys" when guys on the football team don't take no for an answer.
It's blaming rape victims because they "wore provocative clothing"/"drank too much"/"went to that party"/etc.¹
The belief that once someone says "yes", them saying "stop" can be ignored.²
The belief that false reports of rape are common, rather than a similar rate to most crimes.
It's making a big deal about how being charged/convicted with rape will ruin someone's life while ignoring the impact of being raped."
all theese things more or less intersecting issues with rape, which makes Rape culture as you described it the intersectionality of rape
At best those which are problems for the person in question it would be for a single group: Rape victims. Intersectionality would be how a trans woman who has been raped gets to deal not only with garbage from bigots who don't want her to be able to go to the bathroom and the trauma of being raped but also how many of the support services for rape survivors are of limited utility, (if not outright denied her).
Here's the key thing you are ignoring: Intersectionality involves being in multiple groups which face some form of discrimination, bigotry, etc.
Hint, it's not those in the so-called men's rights movement.
You also seem to be misunderstanding something: Things like the idea of Schrodinger's rapist are centered on the reality that there is no way to tell which of a group of men are the ones that will commit rape without engaging in interactions which put one at risk for said rape.² Women often have to ask themselves questions like "is this guy just creepy, or will a 'no' result in him taking advantage of us being alone in this elevator?"
(BTW: Saying "it's worse over there," isn't an argument against "there are problems here.")
1: If you think women get automatically believed, read this:
https://the-orbit.net/almostdiamond.....ion-statistic/
2: If you think that you can you are not only almost certainly wrong, but you are almost certainly _dangerously_ wrong.
Also I don't live in an islamic country nor am I of the islamic faith, but you have a bit of delusion if you think the west is promoting "rape culture". Women have equal if not MORE rights than men. And when it comes to rape the vast majority of time the woman's word is always taken as fact, regardless if the rape actually happened or not. Reminder that saying hello or holding a door open is something that can be called as "rape"and even if it turns out that the rape claim was fake the damage was already done as the man lost his job, got a mob harassing him be it online or on the streets and most likely got doxxed too. But the person making the fake claim walks away with no consequences what so ever.
[Citation Needed]
And nice to see that you are okay with the idea that "all men are potential rapists" because that is totally not misandric...that mentality only creates mistrust between men and women nothing more.
Let me repeat what I said, perhaps you can read it this time:
Things like the idea of Schrodinger's rapist are centered on the reality that there is no way to tell which of a group of men are the ones that will commit rape without engaging in interactions which put one at risk for said rape. Women often have to ask themselves questions like "is this guy just creepy, or will a 'no' result in him taking advantage of us being alone in this elevator?"
Also I don't live in an islamic country nor am I of the islamic faith,
And the reason you felt a need to point this out is? As I said, pointing to some other place that is worse is _not_ an argument against there being problems here.
but you have a bit of delusion if you think the west is promoting "rape culture".
So you claim the following things aren't happening?
People dismissing sexual assaults by saying "what happened to her wasn't really rape."
People blowing off rapes based on it just "boys being boys" when guys on the football team don't take no for an answer.
Rape victims being blamed for their own rapes because they "wore provocative clothing"/"drank too much"/"went to that party"/etc.
People believing that once someone says "yes", them saying "stop" can be ignored.
Claims that false reports of rape are common, rather than a similar rate to most crimes.
Big deals being made about how being charged/convicted with rape will ruin someone's life while ignoring the impact of being raped.
Women have equal if not MORE rights than men.
[Citation Needed]
And when it comes to rape the vast majority of time the woman's word is always taken as fact,
Just as it should be, the same way we take the word of robbery victims. Not that rape victims are believed as often as victims of other crimes, (studies on police officer find even they tend to believe the false reporting rate for rape is 20-30%, rather than the ~5% it actually is¹).
Reminder that saying hello or holding a door open is something that can be called as "rape"
Bullshit. I defy you to actually back that claim up.
1: Which is about the false reporting rate for pretty much any crime out there.
Also "as it should be"? So fuck evidence and facts just listen to she says? You do realize people will abuse that right? Hell, already abusing it.
And nice to see you still didn't try to disprove the "all men are rapists" mentality.
Oh you want to hear more nonsense feminist rape claims? Look up "fart rape" or " men eye rape" literally ANYTHING can be turned into a rape claim. (Hell the most recent thing is that teabagging a female player ingame is rape now)
And what more proof do you want about equal rights, neigh, female privilege in the west? Have you been keeping up with events lately? The constant bitching and moaning about "women's problems" but the moment someone says that there are issues men face (high suicide rate, depression, work death rate etc) suddenly men are just "sexist". Women are paid equally, yet the vocal minority is still demanding more at the expense of hard working men, divorce cases HEAVILY favor women regardless the scenario. The mere fact that people like Anita Sarkeesian or Linda Sarsour can spread their bullshit is because of equal rights, if they indeed lived in the so called "rape culture promoting patriarchy" no woman ever would be given the chance to speak.
But of course why bother when you'll just go on about "rape culture" and how "women are always right". It's funny really, feminist nutjobs import the very thing from the middle east they claim is already in the west. If there is anything promoting ACTUAL rape culture that is political correctness.
So all you have is vague handwaving then.
and why I pointed it out is because you sounded like as if you assumed I was from a place like that.
Do you know what "over there" means?
Hint, it refers to a place you are not.
Also "as it should be"? So fuck evidence and facts just listen to she says?
Yes, the_EXACT SAME WAY_ you would if someone said they were robbed. This ever increasing standard of evidence only happens with rape.
You do realize people will abuse that right? Hell, already abusing it.
Again: Do you have any evidence that the false claim rate is any higher than the 4-8% for crimes in general?
And nice to see you still didn't try to disprove the "all men are rapists" mentality.
Why would I have? this it the first time you brought it up. (Hint: "Potential" and "actual" are not synonyms.)
And what more proof do you want about equal rights, neigh, female privilege in the west?
Well, any would be a start.
Have you been keeping up with events lately? The constant bitching and moaning about "women's problems" but the moment someone says that there are issues men face (high suicide rate, depression, work death rate etc) suddenly men are just "sexist".
And you are either simply lying or never actually looked at what most feminist groups say.
Women are paid equally
False, even when you control for career, experience, education, etc. there is still a pay gap.
Given that you hid from it the first time, I'll ask again:
So you claim the following things aren't happening?
People dismissing sexual assaults by saying "what happened to her wasn't really rape."
People blowing off rapes based on it just "boys being boys" when guys on the football team don't take no for an answer.
Rape victims being blamed for their own rapes because they "wore provocative clothing"/"drank too much"/"went to that party"/etc.
People believing that once someone says "yes", them saying "stop" can be ignored.
Claims that false reports of rape are common, rather than a similar rate to most crimes.
Big deals being made about how being charged/convicted with rape will ruin someone's life while ignoring the impact of being raped.
Hiding from this question again is a de facto admission that they are happening and thus rape culture is a thing.
Rape culture is thing like:
Saying "what happened to her wasn't really rape."
Saying that is just "boys being boys" when guys on the football team don't take no for an answer.
It's blaming rape victims because they "wore provocative clothing"/"drank too much"/"went to that party"/etc.¹
The belief that once someone says "yes", them saying "stop" can be ignored.²
The belief that false reports of rape are common, rather than a similar rate to most crimes.
It's making a big deal about how being charged/convicted with rape will ruin someone's life while ignoring the impact of being raped.
1: Often combined with women who do all the things they're 'supposed' to do to not be at fault for their own rape being slammed as "frigid man-haters."
2: This isn't just rapists justifying themselves: In 2006 the Maryland Court of Special Appeals ruled that a woman could not withdraw consent one the act had begun.
If not, you have to admit that rape culture exists because those are all components of rape culture. Pretending that rape culture is only the open condoning of rape is as wrong as pretending that racism is only the active advocacy of hate crimes.
Saying "what happened to her wasn't really rape."= so it want even rape (even though it was) indirectly condoning it
Saying that is just "boys being boys" when guys on the football team don't take no for an answer. =They will just try and try until sher says yes,indirectly condoning it
It's blaming rape victims because they "wore provocative clothing"/"drank too much"/"went to that party"/etc. =Neglecting the rape at hand indirectly condoning it
The belief that once someone says "yes", them saying "stop" can be ignored. =indirectly condoning it again
The belief that false reports of rape are common, rather than a similar rate to most crimes. = most rapes seem fake, ndirectly condoning it
4 out of your 5 points prove my side
Except that they aren't simply and openly condoning rape, they are all things based on the idea "rape is wrong, but..." as an way to continue condemning rape while carving out exceptions. There is a _reason_ why the number of men who say they are willing to rape someone more than doubles so long as you describe the act rather than call it rape.
Saying "what happened to her wasn't really rape."= so it want even rape (even though it was) indirectly condoning it
If you asked an American police officer in 1970 "is rape wrong" he would almost certainly agree that it is. He would also bow off a woman reporting that her husband raped her with "that wasn't really rape."
That point is about circumscribing what rape is. Rape is still condemned, but because it was her husband/she was a sex worker/there was no vaginal penetration/etc. that particular case doesn't count.
Saying that is just "boys being boys" when guys on the football team don't take no for an answer. =They will just try and try until sher says yes,indirectly condoning it
Wrong, I happened to be thinking of a particular case there and it wasn't about badgering her into saying yes but rather _drugging_ her and then raping her semi-conscious body. People really were dismissing it as "boys being boys" and it took a national outcry after the rapists posted a video of it online to get charges laid.
It's blaming rape victims because they "wore provocative clothing"/"drank too much"/"went to that party"/etc. =Neglecting the rape at hand indirectly condoning it
Nope, the victim blaming is still rape culture even if there is a 100% clear and unequivocal condemnation of the rapist.
The belief that false reports of rape are common, rather than a similar rate to most crimes. = most rapes seem fake, ndirectly condoning it
Not even close. There is nothing there about condoning the act, simply a denial of how often it happens.
They most certainly do not prove your side, _even_ if I were to grant you that they were simply ways of condoning rape, because your side was a soft denial that rape culture exists at all.
I highly doubt that there is a Rape Culture. It would mean that society as a whole condones rape wich would mean #metoo wouldnt even be a thing
No qualifiers, and a _direct_ claim that rape culture is society as a whole condoning rape. Your position requires that the things pointed to when the existence of rape culture is claimed not exist rather than simply having quibbles about how to describe the attitudes behind those things.
So, let me get this straight. You think that if there was a 'rape culture', the people GETTING raped wouldn't have any problem with it?
The concept of 'rape culture' doesn't mean everyone everywhere is involved in it, any more than everyone is involved in the furry fandom. Actually, let's use that as an example. In this fandom, people get off on he idea of rape. This is not an assumption, it's a fact; several of my friends have told me they fantasize about being raped, and the number of comics that depict it are quite large. Rape is usually relegated to something that's fine 'since it's just fantasy and no one is getting hurt'. But not everyone in this fandom enjoys seeing it, or even having to think about it. The rape culture within the fandom is there, but that doesn't mean it's all encompassing. It just means that for some people, even for a large percentage of people, it's 'not that big of a deal', and so when people speak out about it, they tend to get badmouthed about 'causing a fuss' or 'kinkshaming'.
Rape Culture is the general belief that rape isn't so bad, or that it's fine to force someone to have sex 'because they'll like it' or 'have enjoyed it in the end' and that 'it's just another way to have sex'. It's not, but people are turned on by the belief that it's fine, and so they don't want people to ruin the fantasy (or the potential reality) with their silly morals and emotions. It is a series of beliefs and though processes that lends itself to rape being ok, that really shouldn't be getting spread about because rape is NOT ok, but people still want to fantasize. There are a lot of small things that add up to this, like how a lot of my male friends don't see women as people so much as objects you can't trust for a second. I've sat and listened to three friends talking, telling one of their number that he should drop the girl he's in love with and has gotten pregnant because 'she ain't worth his time' and how he should 'let them have a turn at her while he watches'. And they were completely serious about it. Sounds like some potential rape to me.
The concept of rape culture doesn't mean everyone readily accepts every aspect of what rape is without blinking. It means there are underlying beliefs and practices that are accepted as commonplace that people dismiss as normal. Much like how you came here and dismissed even the concept of such a thing out of hand. the idea that such a thing doesn't exist at all just shows either a lack of vision, or an unwillingness to accept that it's there.
I also like to bring it up to kind of remind people that just because someone says it is offensive to them, it doesn't mean it doesn't help someone else cope with something.
Trigger warnings can be helpful, but you can't cover everything that someone might find offense to.
Also about the feral stuff/genetalia, i think you can edit the journal text to include it for easier viewing
I was raped, abused for "lying" about it, and generally the shy fat kid that everyone picked on (bullied).
SOME of your comics came across more rapey than others, mostly I saw them as WAY too submissive than others.
No Triggered Here. keeps making teh arts =^.^=
If I don't like it, I let it be; and I usually pass over the stuff I'm not too fond of. Rape art isn't one of my tastes, but I note how common it is in the fandom, and know it will pop up in my feed sooner or later. Same with the possibility of gore.
Keep making your art, please. no matter what the subject is, freedom of artistic expression is the most important. even if it's porn.
We live and hopefully we learn.
And let's not forget that with knowledge and experience our point of views are subject to change. How does it go? Oh, yes:
When I was a child, my speech, feelings, and thinking were all those of a child; now that I am an adult, I have no more use for childish ways.
By this saying and my own estimation, I have been a child several times and may be one again one day. So don't take it too hard.
I don't think a "rape fantasy" exists, it's a power play, an empowerment / disempowerment fantasy, because the moment it's established that consent is given, it can't by definition be a rape fantasy.
That's my take when it comes to most depictions in furry comics and the like, because I think a lot of people misunderstand the concept.
However, if you're only ever exposed to the idea that submission means forced domination by a partner, it's hardly fair to act like not knowing is tantamount to complicity.
I've been learning similarly through my personal journey and my terrible misconceptions of what femininity was, and how it related to a lot of things. Being feminine and wanting to be vulnerable isn't synonymous with being a pushover, or a victim. That's what I've learned.
I'm super intrigued to see how things will change after this reflection you've had, 'cause I can certainly see where you'd draw the conclusions you have, and why you'd reach them, but the better thing is that now you can approach a new perspective on sex and intimacy, and relationship - and specifically power dynamics pertaining to sex.
I don't think you did anything wrong, after all I never really thought your stuff was "rapey" but I can see how it can look that way, and in some senses it may be - to me it's similar to the predominantly Japanese sensibilities about sex as a cultural thing, and I find that Japanese attitude to be pretty unpleasant and awfully abusive a lot of the time.
Your work is not on that level, it really isn't, but recognizing the similarities might be helpful? I don't know, that's obviously up to you, but having taken apretty serious look at this kinda thing for myself recently, I figure it may be useful information.
Nonetheless, can't wait to see what's next!
I think so. Hope so.
It gives me hope that things are changing for the better. Than you. Good luck on your future works. I'm looking forward to seeing how you develop from here.
I still get debates about that last Supreme court nominee and people still dont think Bill Cosby did anything wrong. I just let it drop