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A word about file formats for your commissions…
6 years ago
UPDATE Jan.7: Ok, so I took the file I used as an example below and flattened the PSD, saved it as a PNG with the Smallest File option (most compression, as I understand it). It took about 10 minutes for my computer to do it, which, meh.......and the end result was still 33MG. Still way too big for posting and truly, not a huge difference in appearance from the 5MG JPEG. When I first opened both images in PS side by side I couldn't see a difference at all. I had to zoom in so close to see a noticeable difference in quality that the image was badly pixelated anyway.
I'm sure that the PNG format makes a much more noticeable difference with hard-edged images and solid blocks of color, which it was my understanding that's what PNG was designed for anyway. But if you're going to want a PNG of your commission work from me, I'm sending you the full-sized file and you can compress it yourself as you see fit. I know people keep suggesting, Krita, SAI, but I don't have these things. I have Photoshop, that is what I use. Best I can do for ya.
TisFoolish brought it to my attention that my commission info was vague in the “What you will get” section. It was written back when CDs were still relevant, so I’ve updated the wording. I send JPEGs by default, but if you prefer another format, such as PNGs or PSDs, all you have to do is ask. If I’m able to accommodate, I will.
I know there are some folks who feel it’s gotta be PNG or nothing, but I use JPEG because it’s, well, sufficient. The format was created to handle graphics on the Internet. And because PNGs tend to be problematic…..about half the PNG files people send me for reference material can’t be opened in Photoshop. No idea why, it just doesn’t like them. So I open them in Paint and save them as JPEGs. My main concern though, is file size.
Here’s an example: this commission for Anon http://www.furaffinity.net/view/23380257/ ....as a flattened PSD, it is 91MG. Which means, as a PNG, it is 91MG. Delivering a file that size is....just silly. Unless you need it for print, or you're still working on it, such as adding color to lineart I've done for you, why would you need a file that large? The JPEG I sent to Anon remained 300dpi (the max size I work in) and measured 5.17 MG....still looks perfectly fine, but much more handleable. (I won't send you a JPEG that's full of artifacts). And the file I uploaded here is a bit smaller, 1.73MG, because I feel the customer should have a larger file than what is displayed to the public.
Unless circumstances change, I will always post public art in JPEG format because, and I say this with certainty, you do not need a 91MG file of someone else's commission. It's a moot point anyway since FA's max file size is 10MG, which is plenty big enough for this kind of venue.
Now, I understand that there are people who feel that, if they're paying for something, they should get every last bit of that something they bought, need it or not, and that's fine. You just need to let me know. I will not send you larger versions of someone else's work, though, please don't ask. I will also not send the rough draft sketches at full size, that's sort of a waste of time.
One last thing I changed in my Comm info, I no longer offer printed convention badges (don't have the ability to do that anymore) and I don't offer work on CD, that's kinda obsolete and I can't remember the last time anyone's wanted one.
As always, if you have questions on this or any of my policies, please feel free to ask.
I'm sure that the PNG format makes a much more noticeable difference with hard-edged images and solid blocks of color, which it was my understanding that's what PNG was designed for anyway. But if you're going to want a PNG of your commission work from me, I'm sending you the full-sized file and you can compress it yourself as you see fit. I know people keep suggesting, Krita, SAI, but I don't have these things. I have Photoshop, that is what I use. Best I can do for ya.
TisFoolish brought it to my attention that my commission info was vague in the “What you will get” section. It was written back when CDs were still relevant, so I’ve updated the wording. I send JPEGs by default, but if you prefer another format, such as PNGs or PSDs, all you have to do is ask. If I’m able to accommodate, I will.I know there are some folks who feel it’s gotta be PNG or nothing, but I use JPEG because it’s, well, sufficient. The format was created to handle graphics on the Internet. And because PNGs tend to be problematic…..about half the PNG files people send me for reference material can’t be opened in Photoshop. No idea why, it just doesn’t like them. So I open them in Paint and save them as JPEGs. My main concern though, is file size.
Here’s an example: this commission for Anon http://www.furaffinity.net/view/23380257/ ....as a flattened PSD, it is 91MG. Which means, as a PNG, it is 91MG. Delivering a file that size is....just silly. Unless you need it for print, or you're still working on it, such as adding color to lineart I've done for you, why would you need a file that large? The JPEG I sent to Anon remained 300dpi (the max size I work in) and measured 5.17 MG....still looks perfectly fine, but much more handleable. (I won't send you a JPEG that's full of artifacts). And the file I uploaded here is a bit smaller, 1.73MG, because I feel the customer should have a larger file than what is displayed to the public.
Unless circumstances change, I will always post public art in JPEG format because, and I say this with certainty, you do not need a 91MG file of someone else's commission. It's a moot point anyway since FA's max file size is 10MG, which is plenty big enough for this kind of venue.
Now, I understand that there are people who feel that, if they're paying for something, they should get every last bit of that something they bought, need it or not, and that's fine. You just need to let me know. I will not send you larger versions of someone else's work, though, please don't ask. I will also not send the rough draft sketches at full size, that's sort of a waste of time.
One last thing I changed in my Comm info, I no longer offer printed convention badges (don't have the ability to do that anymore) and I don't offer work on CD, that's kinda obsolete and I can't remember the last time anyone's wanted one.
As always, if you have questions on this or any of my policies, please feel free to ask.
I suppose in your line of work, you will meet a lot of "bigger is better" people.
And as far as massive PNG files, you are probably referring to PNGs sent without compression. A program that deals with proper image compression (Something I don't know if PS will do, but I know SAI, Krita, and others will) will allow you to pick the compression ratio for PNG files (or JPEG files). A PNG that has been compressed with the proper ratio for its content will be on-par with JPEG as far as filesize, but with better detail reproduction (JPEG compression leaves blocks whereas PNG does not). Sliding JPEG and PNG compression sliders all the way to max is never the right thing to do.
I suspect that PS doesn't deal with PNG compression properly if it's taking a 100~MB raw and leaving it 100~MB. Most of my PNG exports are from a flattened canvas around 150-200MB, but end up in the 6-10MB range when saved.
I have a commission that is 10k by 6.6k and its filesize as a PNG is only 45MB, but the PSD is over 300 MB.
If PS does allow you to decide PNG compression, I don't know how to get it to do that. It would be tremendously helpful if it did, though. I don't have any other software for ink and paint. Thanks for the info!
"Export as" doesn't seem to provide this option, but it does apply some compression by default. Using the smallest file size option does make a notable difference, but for large files it may take a minute to save depending on your processing power.
However, black and white line art is something I really prefer in png. They're about the same size, if the png is set up right.
I don't use Photoshop, but it wouldn't surprise me if it uses no or light compression on png files - they're more interested in saving quickly, and png's better compression levels can take a lot of CPU. Also, which sort of PNG compression is best can vary by the image.
I use a program that strips out useless metadata and recompresses pngs with the best compression for that particular image. There's no quality loss, of course, but I've occasionally trimmed ~10 meg pngs down to 2 megs with it, though the usual savings isn't anywhere near that much.
(Did you know thumbnails can be embedded in png file metadata fields? They can. Which is really annoying because it bloats the image, and means that some computers will show the thumbnail even if 'thumbnail preview' is turned off in the OS. @.@ )
As far as I've far when talking to one artist who posts these problematic PNGs, the creator of the files will never notice because the creator can open the files as if the problem never existed.
Can you provide a link to one of these problem PNG files?
Let me know what browser you downloaded it with and what program you used to open it.
Browser download tests:
Vivaldi (my main browser) and Firefox save the file with a JPG extension.
Safari saves the file with a JPEG extension. (With the e in it. Apple is weird.)
OmniWeb saves the file with a PNG extension.
On my PC:
Edge saves it as a PNG.
Internet Explorer and Chrome save it as a JPG
On my Amiga:
Timberwolf saves it as a JPG
Origyn saves it as a PNG
I tried both PNG and JPG extensions in assorted viewers:
Mac: Xee, Preview, Paintbrush, PosteRazor all opened both versions fine.
PC: Paint3D, ACDSee Classic (1999 version), MAGIX Photo Manager, and Snip & Sketch all opened both versions fine.
Magic Quick Look failed with 'no suitable plugin' message on the JPEG-named-as-PNG.
Amiga: MultiView opened both versions okay.
It looks like your problem really isn't PNG files. It's a combination of things CALLED png files that aren't, and software that isn't smart enough to figure out 'hey, this file extension doesn't match the actual file format'.
Frankly, that's a problem with the programs that can't handle the file. Yes, it should be named properly, but if you open 153765701.badgerben_7.png in a pure text editor, you can see the JPEG magic cookie at the start of the file. JFIF and 'CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 90' are both noted.
Anyways, the programs I used that couldn't open them are PaintToolSAI ver1, Clip Studio Paint, and Photoshop.
The browsers are saying 'Wait, this file has a png extension, but it's not a PNG. That's stupid. Let's fix it.'
Using wget to fetch the file gets a .png extension (since wget doesn't parse anything at all, it just downloads what it's told to) and the file retrieved is named .png but it's actually a JPEG.
I hadn't tried Clip Studio Paint. When I did, it failed with 'Unsupported file format'. However, just by changing the .png to .jpg in the file name, Clip Studio Paint opens it just fine. (By the way, Clip Studio Paint gives the exact same message if you name a png a jpg. Or if you name a jpeg a bmp.)
The problem isn't the PNG format. The problem is files that AREN'T pngs that CLAIM to be pngs by the extension, and programs that aren't smart enough to realize the error.
It's like if I took 'Star Wars.mp4' and renamed it 'Star Wars.doc' and tried to open it in WordPad. WordPad would be all 'WTF is this crap?!'. The difference is that an image editor or viewer SHOULD be bright enough to realize 'oh, this image format is named improperly' and handle it, the same way MplayerX goes 'oh, this .mkv file is actually an .mp4' and plays the movie anyway.
Edit: To make this clearer - FurAffinity's server is serving a file with a .png name, but it's actually a jpeg. The file is incorrect at the source.
(downloaded with opera)
PNG compression can be performed in different ways. My favorite tool, which can sometimes very significantly reduce the size of png files without actually changing the pixels produced by the file, is https://css-ig.net/articles/truepng
I do appreciate the size that very high rez complicated files can end up at, though. high quality jpeg is, most of the time, the best choice for a high rez shaded piece, agreed. :>
For sketches, Lineart, and flat colors, a properly compressed PNG can actually result in smaller file sizes.
I'll also note, FA also does not fix the file name extension when it autoconverts an uploaded file. This is one of the causes of the file errors in PS. just renaming the extension to .jpg fixes it. :3
It strikes me as odd that Photoshop cannot open PNG's for you when it should. Something tells me that whatever the images were created in are using a different PNG format. These days I mostly use Krita which is pretty much my alternative to Photoshop and supports a wide variety of standard image files in varying formats, and yes it does support opening of PSD files too, but Krita uses its own way of saving layered image documents in KRA format.
When I talked to someone who commonly posts these files I found that the creators of the files will never notice as if the issue never existed, because they can open their own files no problem. But yeah this problem is seriously wonky.
(and then if you go to the submission and "change submission file" to reupload it, you can upload the original, larger image)
If the JPEG is compressed to the point it's lowering the visual quality of the image then you need to question the software used in that instance, not the format, unless it's a version of JPEG that's lesser by nature. I have yet to see a difference in quality of a PNG and JPEG at the highest quality both can be created as.
The only time I use PNGs is with transparent files. GIFs for certain images like WIPs or on occasion if it's way too simple to be degraded by the format's limited amount of colors it allows, and of course for animated pictures. Everything else is JPEG by default.