Cub - A Reason to Remove
6 years ago
Wot de boz teenks...
With the recent events involving discord's moderation team and public perception involving the fandom, I feel that we need to talk about an incredibly taboo subject:
Cub Art
For those that are unaware, it came to light over the week of 02/04/2019 to 02/08/2019 that, though discord's terms of service explicitly ban pornography of children, including drawings, moderation staff have argued vehemently that furry Cub Art does not fall within this ban.
Similarly, cub art on Furaffinity, though supposedly not allowed, has been posted in increasing quantities on this site without moderation staff looking into the issue or correcting it. Similarly, several individuals that are patrons of Cub art have been let back onto the site despite this being their fifth or sixth offense.
Now, I'm not going to go into the specifics of squick and the like. I'm going to assume that, for most of you here, you understand that a lot of people find Cub art distasteful. My goal in this journal is to help explain -why-, as well as to explain why the fandom is seen as a hive of degenerates.
See, it all comes down to whether or not we see the furry characters as human; Do these characters possess a human will and motivation? Can they empathize with others? Can they consider functions beyond that which is immediately apparent? Can they defer gratification for a greater reward later?
These are all things that people tend to impart on their characters, and so the main view people have of furries, if they aren't immediately aggressive, with mild acceptance. They're human, just in a different shape.
This is why Cub art creeps most people out. If we're applying the laws of logic, and therefore baseline cultural morality, to any individual furry character then it should stand to reason that people will be disgusted if they see an adult furry character lewding a four year old, just as they would an adult lewding a fourteen year old.
The common defense that supports this behavior comes in two major flavors:
1. It's only art
2. It's fictional characters / not human
The first item does not apply in this case because certain graphic depictions are considered illegal in the US.
The second item, however, is far more disturbing when someone reasons further than the initial claim. If all the art on this site features creatures that are not human, that they are not capable of rationalizing the world around them in a similar way to the way we are, then that is the only true way that they would not held to our own standards as human beings. Considering that the overall appearance and behaviors of some characters points at them sharing traits with the animals they're based on, this in turn implies that everything on this site can be considered equivalent to bestiality.
As a result, this defense Cub artists and patrons often dive into only serve to push us backwards.
Worse, this proves 4chan right.
Cub Art
For those that are unaware, it came to light over the week of 02/04/2019 to 02/08/2019 that, though discord's terms of service explicitly ban pornography of children, including drawings, moderation staff have argued vehemently that furry Cub Art does not fall within this ban.
Similarly, cub art on Furaffinity, though supposedly not allowed, has been posted in increasing quantities on this site without moderation staff looking into the issue or correcting it. Similarly, several individuals that are patrons of Cub art have been let back onto the site despite this being their fifth or sixth offense.
Now, I'm not going to go into the specifics of squick and the like. I'm going to assume that, for most of you here, you understand that a lot of people find Cub art distasteful. My goal in this journal is to help explain -why-, as well as to explain why the fandom is seen as a hive of degenerates.
See, it all comes down to whether or not we see the furry characters as human; Do these characters possess a human will and motivation? Can they empathize with others? Can they consider functions beyond that which is immediately apparent? Can they defer gratification for a greater reward later?
These are all things that people tend to impart on their characters, and so the main view people have of furries, if they aren't immediately aggressive, with mild acceptance. They're human, just in a different shape.
This is why Cub art creeps most people out. If we're applying the laws of logic, and therefore baseline cultural morality, to any individual furry character then it should stand to reason that people will be disgusted if they see an adult furry character lewding a four year old, just as they would an adult lewding a fourteen year old.
The common defense that supports this behavior comes in two major flavors:
1. It's only art
2. It's fictional characters / not human
The first item does not apply in this case because certain graphic depictions are considered illegal in the US.
The second item, however, is far more disturbing when someone reasons further than the initial claim. If all the art on this site features creatures that are not human, that they are not capable of rationalizing the world around them in a similar way to the way we are, then that is the only true way that they would not held to our own standards as human beings. Considering that the overall appearance and behaviors of some characters points at them sharing traits with the animals they're based on, this in turn implies that everything on this site can be considered equivalent to bestiality.
As a result, this defense Cub artists and patrons often dive into only serve to push us backwards.
Worse, this proves 4chan right.
The larger society has rules regarding what is and is not acceptable.
All I've done here is point out how society sees Cub in that paradigm.
Not advocating for either side, but it's just bad reasoning.
Freedom of Speech ends with a call to action or with action itself.
The action of producing art that is illegal is not protected under freedom of speech within the US as this is considered actionable by the legal system.
'But most people don't like it' is grossly misleading and is not the point I'm trying to make.
We are referring to a parallel between Human and Fur content, wherein the legal system can have weight.
Finally, I'm pointing out the reason -why- people don't like it.
It doesn't matter if you make an excuse, and it doesn't matter if you demean others by claiming they have bad reasoning, Cub makes furries on the whole a massive target. That furries use these two incredibly poorly conceived arguments to defend the open display of their fetishes only means that people will refuse to come to the table and see them as anything more than degenerates.
Your claim that the reasoning is 'bad reasoning' is now a 'rock solid argument', like you're somehow able to judge that when we're arguing a case of subjectives.
'It's fantasy, therefore legal.'
Fine, let's put it in that context: Sexually explicit cub art is a graphic depiction of rape, at least statutory, if not sexual abuse. People instinctively don't want to see it, and there is the threat of normalizing the behavior through constant exposure (Not a threat with people that are fully sane and grounded, but this is the fandom we're talking about; This is where Kero was grown.)
You shouldn't be surprised when people have an issue with that.
The warning was to give you a chance to calm down and rework your argument to remain on-topic.
hell...'society' trying stopping people from breastfeeding, 'society' tried making nipples illegal, *snerks* 'society' wanted to make sex in general (and it has in a way) a massive taboo.
There are a lot of good things and a lot of bad things, you have to take both and you have to negotiate around what you want and what you don't want.
The furry society / communuity has so many detriments that it's easy to see why so many people want nothing to do with us. We have to clean up our acts on a personal level, and we have to disassociate ourselves from people that would harm us.
I mean, that -is- what all the blocklists on twitter are for, right?
Neo-tribalism is what's threatening to tear us back down.
Otherwise we'd have unsuccessful societies that don't' have concessions against murder.
Good to know where we stand ^_^
It's like an additive to art that makes it even less palpable.
Why is the idea of cub...a quite commonly "Fictional" representation of infants/child creatures/characters so frowned upon in the first place?
Is it the instinctual protection urge gripping at the mind?
Or perhaps its a bit of societal shaming causing ripples in the pond?
maybe the general consensus of "we are better than this" rearing its head?
Or maybe...just another "what is everyone angry at today?" style of why....
It's up to you whether you have enough empathy to see through other people's eyes:
"
Sexually explicit cub art is a graphic depiction of rape, at least statutory, if not sexual abuse. People instinctively don't want to see it, and there is the threat of normalizing the behavior through constant exposure (Not a threat with people that are fully sane and grounded, but this is the fandom we're talking about; This is where Kero was grown.)
"
And Saying that, i cant really lump furries in with the normal humans standards of society either, it just makes no sense to me, so..to me...none of the art created by furries holds any reality to the art made of humans, might be why i find human art drawn BY furries so strange too.
Keep in mind 'human' in the context I've provided is not the same as being genetically human. We're talking about depth of thought and ability to communicate. A point effectively demonstrated by the Harkness Test.
So ...for now cynnamin..you win the debate...i hate you for it...but you win..
Cub artists have not handled criticism well.
Thank you for bringing that up!
If we dont' draw the line here, where will we draw it? what will we not accept except thought to the right of lenin?
As they get older, they want to be accepted and contribute to society.
Some of us do so by trying to indicate what mistakes were made that the next generation needs to avoid in order to live better lives.
Even if you don't see it as possible doesn't mean that others are bound to that same destination.
Sorry, off topic, anyway, the point i was trying to make is that furries in general are too heavily tainted in that roll to slip away from it, much like the ruskies are out to get us, or the chinese are trying to buy america, or the middle east is trying to kill us, its all taint that has been so heavily imprinted on us as a society that it will not wear off with a simple culling, cleaning, or mental shift, it would take the grand destruction of 90%+ of what makes the furry fandom what it is to change the preconceptions people have of us as a whole and probably nothing less.
....damn that hurt to say...
Also, HUGE protip. None of my images are gone, only two that were QUESTIONABLE, and I removed them for the QUESTION of impropriety and hypocrisy on my part. The rest are up or unreleased. As to the 'dabbled' in the dark side, the 'dark side' is the point. That's the very point of this channel. When I get a windfall another bit of 'darkness' is going up. Claudia bun is not a hero, not at all. I'm not PURE, I strive to be honest, but not PURE.