I didn't consider the fact that banks could consider Patreon charges suspicious. I will go ask my bank as soon as possible.

Keep up the good work btw

I don't blame you for blocking people like that.
I have seen people reupload a lot of stuff, that
is not theirs. It does get really annoying. I am
Sorry you had to deal with that.

Yeah, I had this issue over the Holidays with multiple credit card companies and even PayPal. Seems Patreon now debits payments from the UK which flags the transactions as fraud. I kept in touch with the affected artists (not everyone's pledges were affected) while I worked the issue out and all of them were patient and understanding save one who blocked me on all social media. While I understand Nikko's frustrations, no one was more frustrated than I was dealing with a mess that I felt Patreon brought on themselves by switching payment processors.

So I'm curious, does it block someone if they don't pay straight away, but then "update" from the "your creators" thing on patreon? Or is it if they don't pay after 5 days?

If their card gets declined at the end of the month during the payment cycle, I personally block them because they got a free month of content without paying anything.

I'm not a patron of yours, but for example I have a prepaid card, so generally the first time it checks it doesn't work, and I get money on the first to put in, in that case would I get banned from your patreon? Since I always do end up paying in the end?

And wouldn't pay upfront resolve that?

Pay upfront only protects you against people pulling their pledge. If they have $0 in the account, its the same thing. With a prepaid card, you could just spend all the money on other things and then at the end of the month its empty. Point is very simple: If you dont pay, you get banned. Do not pledge if you cannot do it in a stable, consistent way.

+fave

I understand where you're coming from, but genuine mistakes and unforeseen misfortune can happen. Some people might just get robbed of their money, and are unlucky enough for it to happen around the billing cycle. Others might be victim of a freak accident with banking software that screws them out of money temporarily. Some others might just have unforeseen expenses come barreling at them (which, admittedly, is probably due to poor budgeting, but it can happen even with well-managed budget).

Your grim trigger strategy is completely understandable, but not very forgiving of one-time mistakes. A more forgiving strategy would be what I call the grim safety: Only start defecting forever (perma-block) once the trust is broken (payment defaults) twice.

That, or complain to Patreon and try to get them to have a system where you pay for the next period of access, not the period you just had.

NOTE: I am not trying to be offensive, rude, or annoying in any way. I am merely depicting the other side and playing devil's advocate for the purposes of covering all sides and creating the environment for a thoroughly-thought-out decision to be made. I am not claiming in any way that your decision wasn't well-thought-out.

My method of banning accounts is mainly if they're brand new patrons who just got declined, not people who have pledged to me for 2 years and missed one payment. However, if i see the declines stacking up, they're gone. I can't afford to give ppl handouts regardless of their financial situations, this is my income. If your boss kept saying 'sorry i cant pay you this week' over and over again and you've been doing the work, you would quit.

Okay, sounds good.

It’s a good thing I always get paid right before the month turns over, then.

Would pay up front maybe help with this? I feel like the biggest issue here is new patrons. With the current system of billing on the first, it leaves you open to people either taking advantage either on purpose or maybe even on accident.

With "pay on the first" say the person joins in May. They see all of your currently posted content. Then on the first of June the payment declines or they decide to pull out before payment. They accessed all of the content for free basically.

If you used the pay up front method though, they join up, pay however much, and then they access all of your content up through May. Then on the first, it declines, or they pull out before payment, but you got paid for them accessing the content just like all your other "long term" patrons. They don't pay for June, but they also don't get access to June content. If it was accidental, then they have the option of adding money, resubbing, and again it would pay up front for the month of June and allow access to June content.

I'm not a creator on patreon, just a consumer, so I'm not sure if this is completely wrong info. Maybe just something to think about! :D
I know that I subbed to a creator recently, paid upfront, and then realized that there wasn't nearly as much content as had been advertised. I didn't feel bad dropping the sub because I had paid for all the content just like everyone else! Had it been a pay on the first kind of deal, I would have had to wait until after billing and then unsub.

I guess I just feel like paying upfront allows you to pay for the current month. The pay on the first method basically has you paying for the previous month, meaning no matter when someone drops the subscription they are always able to access content that they will never get around to paying for. If I join in May and then unsub at the end of June, I got all of May, all of June, for just one payment. If I join in May, pay up front, and then leave in June, even if I leave the day before payment the second time, I only ever get 30 days of fresh content! :D

if you read my responses above i explain why that isnt foolproof.

I saw you say that it protects from people pulling their pledge, which I thought was one important thing in favor of up front billing!
I guess I'm not sure why it doesn't stop non payment? I mean, if they pay up front, the next time it goes to bill, if they don't have money then they don't get to continue their sub and they don't get access to free content. :)

If their bank account is at 0 or their prepaid card is empty, it doesnt matter if its payment up front because the actual CHARGE doesn't come until the end of the month, all it does is schedule a payment. the money is all metaphorical until its actually pay-day

Hmm, I didn't know that. Mine always pulls immediately. I can generally see it on my bank statement the next day, that's why I thought it would help!

some people, in my country of the not-united states (a), love claiming "the economy is good"


to this, i can only counter, the economy is good for whom?




i've encountered so many artists whose works—generously shared for free—had given me pleasure. . . . .and then pain, when it eventually comes to pass they can no longer share: they either have to request due compense for their efforts; or, due to the instability of income (from whence•ever it was obtained), the artist just gives up art completely.
perhaps permanently, if the struggle they endured disheartens them enough.



so the economy is good.
for whom?
it certainly isn't for a large number of us in the furry community — artist nor spectator.
i feel assured, if we spectators were swimming in bags, then the artists themselves would eventually come to do so as well.

incidentally...it might behoove us furries to come up with some alternative to paypal.
something, to facilitate upfront pay.
(and, as well, a system that can provide protection, should either side not happen to hold up their end of the bargain.
for whatever reason.)


alas



i feel your pain nikko.
until we can finally find a better way, then you must defend yourself as you must.
from those who knowingly game the system and, worse yet, unauthorizedly-distribute your content

Yeh i mean, its not like i put all my work behind a paywall. I still post art and commissions to here and twitter consistently every week. The people on patreon are going above and beyond to support me to get additional art, and i rly appreciate it. I personally don't believe in putting ALL your work behind a paywall because you alienate your fanbase.

to your last point, "that is true too"


paywalling everything isn't ... the nicest thing to do.
at least, paywalling everything one does without warning, or without making it clear from the beginning that that's one's intention, isn't the best of looks





if i had the bags for it, i'd support you too, bro



(i'd chip in for a lot of artists, for that matter)



time is money.
i appreciate that you put some of your arts out at all, without expectation of payment (twitter, furaffinity, etc.)

keep fighting the good fight!

I often deal with the same sh*t working the drive through. They'll order food then their card is denied or they'll guess how much money's on there and throw bills until it works.