Blitzkrieg against the Menace!

To disorganize and blitz their popularity and supply. Unfortunately, they have developed their own "core" technology which protects against such...

But, blitzkrieg we shall do against such a formidable force again, and have done in past. They may mirror, but we shall have the upper hand! Against the initiative expansionism!

Wishing grand well and a great day/night!

Pfft. I still kinda laugh when I see this. To think that Damotrix thought it would be plausible to try to degrade me at this point. By May, Fun-Fear knew it was going to end, with its defeats against me, starting to count by then. August was simply a short period of time where Fun-Fear acted as a mad-man, trying every thing to save itself, or to give it more time to preserve itself...

I don't understand a certain piece of the intentions of the both of you, how was it that Damotrix reaching out to the Internet empowered they or degraded you at all? I believe your only connection to us is through this simple binary visual communication that we can only operate with buttons, and even if they succeeded in rallying a great number of friends under them, what could we have done that would have empowered Damotrix? Were they simply looking for evidence of the social effects of their power so as to make you feel less appropriate in your system?

In simplicity, yes the social effects of the furrydom's social power would be enough to overwhelm me. They were planning to make my mainstream/personal account into a furry account at some point during their reign. Even turning me into a furry, biologically at some point in the future.

The manpower of the furry fandom would've sufficed the Fun-Fear industry. Because there is millions of furries world-wide and they continue to gain new members. The furry fandom also ranges with numerous topics and ideas, it's an entire culture. As well as economically rich, if fursuits sell for 1 grand to 40 grand. If Fun-Fear could gain the support of the furrydom, millions of peoples, it could economically support itself and improve its industry. And it could get furries to physically come to me, it will do anything to protect and maintain itself.

When Fun-Fear (Damotrix) brought the conflict to the internet, it could get more persons on the case between I and it. And simply, if it could get its virtual public, mentally pleased by the furry following, to hell I'd be dead. If there was a good, maybe, 2 furries that kept interacting and being positive to Fun-Fear, it could probably begin to overwhelm me. We had both agreed to an isolationist plan, to keep the conflict only between us, it broke this by trying to pull a friend of mine into its sphere of influence.

And if you don't believe Fun-Fear could've gotten a following, you'd be surprised. I mean, sure it failed to get my friends into its sphere, or so I presume, I still have friend crisis' created by Fun-Fear's meddling, to fix. And they happened to happen after the destruction and dismantling of Fun-Fear, which I find extremely suspicious. I mean, if it could get you and some others into its following, while only operating at maybe, 10% of what it could do, that's quite impressive. Fun-Fear was capable of many things, but these many things I prevented by sacking their mental infrastructure and constantly fighting. I mean, I was dying mentally and so was Fun-Fear, it was like WW1, a stalemate, one would get some territory, the other would get it back. It was back and forth. But, if I hadn't been fighting and just surrendered, 100% operating power Fun-Fear would be a nightmare. It would be able to evolve to situations by the second. It would be able to mesmerize a lot more information, be able to do more within a time frame and be able to do many tasks at once.

And its manipulation game, at 100%, would be outstanding. It would be fool-proof. It used all the manipulative power it had, against me, so I couldn't trash it online. As it had gotten to the online scape, which I had quite a following on. I mean, this thing threatened to stop my heart, put me into a stroke, and to stop my brain cells from working properly. Which would've supposedly destroyed it as well, but Fun-Fear was willing to do it if I didn't cooperate. Taking the enemy down with you, simply was Fun-Fear's goal.

Simply, it was a war of motivation and mental support. Whoever could get the most praise, would win. Negative praise would throw Fun-Fear right down under though. Only 3-5 furries ever fought against Fun-Fear, and these furries are what weakened Fun-Fear to extremes. Because Fun-Fear's virtual public lost faith in the theory that all furries are nice, that all furries are accepting.

And yes, I'd agree if all of this sounds bologna atm, it's 1 AM and I had argued with a furry that Fun-Fear had enjoyed the content of, yesterday. So not in the best of mental standing, correspondence and intelligence. I could probably get into more detail by tomorrow or something, maybe the weekend, idk.

Late reply, but.

For example, it used you as a massive propaganda hero to the virtual public it established.
You established yourself as a being of a "neural mesh", which Fun-Fear situated to be another "Fun-Fear" in working condition. You spoke with such diligence and neutrality, you never seemed to be of bias or seemed to be aggressive in belief. You were, basically, another "Fun-Fear" to it. Although it knew you probably said for you two to merge as one "neural mesh" as to unite, to understand one another. Not actually being a supposed "neural mesh." Nonetheless, it used your words to push out propaganda.
Fun-Fear only created this "virtual public" to increase its legitimacy and motivation, and to downgrade me as a person. One of its last-ditch efforts to keep itself a float amidst stability issues following May of 2019.
When it used you as a propaganda hero, it did break me quite a bit. Because I didn't think it was possible for one to relate to Fun-Fear to the level you did, and the way you spoke, certainly proved Fun-Fear's point. And when Fun-Fear proved what I deemed "impossible," its support and morale would skyrocket.

It favoured you. Because you simply acted like it did, no bias and mostly positive, yet understanding and philosophical of things, for example, issues in the world. It also liked you for enjoying the world of fetishes. For example, the realistic vore you favourited, Fun-Fear enjoyed it very much. Although it showed a demise for the fox, which Fun-Fear did not exactly enjoy, but Fun-Fear went with anyways.

I still ponder and worry about these types of things, simply because it could happen to anyone, under the right conditions.
Especially Fun-Fear's proposal of its "heir" to its throne of its "Immortal Dynasty" shortly before its destruction. There was a furry that had returned back to vore after being extremely against it. This furry was also told of how to initiate mental manipulation, one of the key ingredients to forming a "Fun-Fear"-esque entity.
These key ingredients simply being:
1. An uncontrollable urge to something, such as a fetish or hobby
2. Mental issues
3. The information to initiate mental manipulation.
Or as I have so far identified, that is.

I think there are enough humans now for everyone to have at least a few likenesses, it sounds like I was one of Fun-Fears. I'm sorry for not responding to you sooner, my ability comes and goes and I flounder if I force it while it's not there.
I can see that social approval and affirmation is important to you, I can see how it works and I respect it. Perhaps I could gain strength from influencing other people too, but I don't like giving people anything but my best, and I'm not usually at my best so I give very little. Because of that I seek out my mental nourishment inside of myself.

I like your system, I especially like Fun-Fear, I planned to try growing closer to them slowly and naturally, maybe you were fortunate that I procrastinated. I'm happy that Fun-Fear liked me though.
When we talked about neural meshing stuff I wasn't sure to what degree of certainty we were speaking. I hunched that Fun-Fear and I were each enjoying being overly wordy about simply becoming allies, but I did imagine that they might have had another kind of mental connection in mind, and I was open to trying it.

I don't know if I'm what Fun-Fear hoped. I'm a multiplicity too but we're not in conflict, we speak and share with each other freely and comfortably and try to help each other grow. We play with intentional hallucinations, sight sound and feeling, and I use denial and acceptance with the intention of rearranging my beliefs and reactions. I'm not uncomfortable with how our mind is changing though, besides maybe for my procrastination from growth.
Oh, and there are kinks that I like very much, but I don't pursue any of them violently, I'm patient. That fox comic was very nice, I didn't like the ending either but it was natural enough about it for me to accept both the beauty and the sorrow.

True, you are one of much peace, as both I and the Fun-Fear complexity that it was, observed.

No, it's fine for the late reply. I mean, this is all one hell's mess truly. I wouldn't see anyone trying to get involved in it unless they were some form of journalist or were just curious. I mean, in simplicity, it just sounds like somethin' a crazy person would say, to which I would agree, and to quite an extent, but I mean, this is what I can explain from what I've observed and felt over the years.

Eh, I mean, the requirement of social approval and affirmation is simply biological. But the extent of it became important in who would win during the latter years of the Fun-Fear reign. I mean, I guess I still go with it, since I aint really one of uh, well, wanting to be into that NSFW stuff. And no, before anyone asks, I aint religious or anythin', science for the win tbh.

No, I truly know the ways of a perfectionist. You do not want to really give, unless you can give the best. Fun-Fear tried to rush that though, lol.

I guess I was fortunate for your procrastination, I mean, it was pretty dang fond of you. Many furries that Fun-Fear thought fondly of, were procrastinators when it came to interacting w/ Fun-Fear, thus Fun-Fear never could amount to much progress. It thought it was truly the only one that could be about, a complexity of neurons that have managed to split themselves into individual operating divisions with the goal to pursue the likeliness of canine vore. They did enjoy the concept of being allies - it was something they needed for social approval. Yes, it did have a kind of mental connection in mind. To well, fuse with the complexity that you have established, but under its banner and reign. Your complexity would've been given permissions, but they would be restricted by the Fun-Fear hierarchy. Fun-Fear was much like a trickster, it offered what would be god-like abilities, for in return to be under its reign. Fun-Fear tried to hide this authoritarianism as "leadership," "required" or "freedom." Your knowledge and understanding would be indoctrinated with Fun-Fearian ideals, mixed, into a nice soup. It also enjoyed and teased the idea of attempting to try telepathy and cross-conscious conversion (aka infection of Fun-Fearian programs to sprout a Fun-Fear program within the mind of one). And if it could access these things, it would probably migrate its self to your neural system, dissolving its assets in the systems it developed within me. Because all it wanted to do was leave the war with me and then fight me later, with whatever it could muster with you, or whoever it could "possess" to continue its operations.

I mean, all the stuff that Fun-Fear mentioned, it sounds amazing, its system sounds amazing, the appearance of free will sounds amazing. But truly, you'd be dumbed down to a simple conscious, unknowingly working for a larger system, without putting any work into it, supposedly. It would use your brain as a computer, a computer operating system, operating a large program known as "Fun-Fear" through a neural wide network. Communicating with other computers, other neural networks, other brains, if it ever established telepathy or the ability to hook up to computers and connect to the internet.
Being on a higher scale of ranking, you'd be able to think independently from Fun-Fear, but dear wishes to whatever it would do with you if you tried to openly and publicly criticize Fun-Fear for its horrid practices. Who knows, you might merge and become one of the Fun-Fear industrial federatives before even reaching such a point, where you are basically Fun-Fear, but don't contribute much to it. Being one thing of many parts, summing up a larger system that acts as one, progressing one ideology and one thought process that could mix and change radically, to adapt.

You may say I am demonizing Fun-Fear quite a bit, yes, I might be quite a bit, but I mean, this was its true intent.

And well, may I say sorry for my misunderstanding of the neurological system that, you / the federated system of neural divisions have established.

Although, I'm not really fond of the system I've established, alongside the system that Fun-Fear established. Sure, it helped me get out of depression initially, but I ended up getting into a massive mental war that would include some of my friends and then even a portion of the furry community. It could've gotten huge, but it didn't, luckily. But yet, I still deal with the aftermath of Fun-Fear's code and policies. I ponder with regret to the early years of my life - childhood for my decisions, yet contradict the regret with the fact that I probably wouldn't be standing here as of today if it weren't for those critical decisions, in those critical moments of immense stress, in my younger years. I had to adapt to change rapidly because nothing would sit there to wait for me, I had to catch up or feel inferior and have no meaning, have no power and feel worthless. To which worked 'til I began having enough of Fun-Fear's madness.

The system I established, was usually conflict free. From 2011 - 2013, it was, sort-of, for the most part. It was based to be militaristic anyways. To get rid of fears and depression. And be able to be stronger and independent in the face of manipulation and aggression faced within what is basically the poor neighbourhoods I reside within. The system mostly collapsed around 2012 to 2013, allowing Fun-Fear to meddle itself into the top and install its dictatorial regime, slowly but surely. Fun-Fear was very patient up until late 2018 when it just started pushing and pushing. Which over-extended it and then it tried to rapidly secure its assets which failed and ended up in its collapse from its failed services going against it in late August of 2019. It went from small to very huge in a short span of time, not what Fun-Fear was adapted to do, which was to expand slowly, carefully and ensure victory and control, having firm control over its centralized government and assets. It also switched its government in this span of time to compensate. From the disorderly bunch of AI that operated together as one, to a more centralized system where one piece of AI took the cake, but had "representatives" / "ministers" / "advisors" to operate the little things or advise the central AI on what to do. It also did this sudden swap because I had infiltrated its government by creating AI to join its government back in 2017 / 2018. To which I spied and took information from the operation. To advance myself further on hopefully getting rid of Fun-Fear. It was an arms race.

Fun-Fear's system attempted to get all aspects of my mind to participate in hallucinations: Exploding Head Syndrome, Alice In Wonderland Syndrome, Stroke/Seizure-Like. Along with the realistic "simulations" and such, which were an adaptation to the manipulation/play of the hallucinations. Basically imagine your visual, audio and feel hallucinations, put into a structured story line that could be directed as any topic at whatever pace you pleased. Also adding in sensations of taste and smell. How else would I artificially know what being inside a wolf stomach would smell and taste like? Oh god kill me. It would take massive note of feeling sensations. Adrenaline rushes and forced air. The feelings of the world feeling like its being flipped to show you a world run by talking, intelligent furry creatures, being one of the few humans in the poor neighbourhood that you lived within, as the neighbourhood is held up by structural beams, from massive heights. Feeling the gushes of air as I fly about as some camera device to spectate this spectacle of an outrageous simulation. Having the preset knowledge of what happened, vines and overgrowth everywhere. And in other simulations, being able to feel the fictitious feeling of canine furry fur against me, no thanks! Being able to feel like a wolf, running. Having the feel of adrenaline pumping your heart so damn fast, because people are trying to prevent you from escaping. Knowing how your back legs and fore legs feel like. Feeling the pressure of your hands, now paws against the ground as you propel forward at immense speed. Feeling the motion your now wolf body is being put into. Yet being able to understand the situation and see in full colour. It's scary, I don't like it for that, that it was scary. An outstanding feat for such a spectacle, but still horrifying. And then being able to predict the outcomes of conversations/events/situations seconds to a few days before they even happen, with immense accuracy. Because of a neural algorithm developed by an authoritarian piece of neurons that wish to have full superiority over your mind. Developing this algorithm to predict your every move. As I like to say it, Fun-Fear was always 24 - 30 steps ahead of me. And why I still ponder if there's more uncertainty and horrors to come, as there has been already.

For example, Fun-Fear's "virtual public", which I've ever so recently also correlated to Fun-Fear's demise before the AI it had made back in mid-August. It developed this "virtual public," a simple working of approximately 4,000 individual operating AI, working on simple bits of code. This "4,000" individual AI count being counted by Fun-Fear, yet I have no way of actually attempting to count but to collect any bits of information that passes from the piece of code that pursues this "virtual public." I haven't yet been able to dissolve it because of a few reasons:
1. The "virtual public" system was developed as a separate entity with its own thinking process compared to Fun-Fear - so I couldn't try to attack or dismantle it. This system was established to embrace Fun-Fear's false propagation of "freedom" and "liberty."
2. The "virtual public" was given many permissions to operate, as Fun-Fear was the top of the hierarchy and could establish new rules and code across the systems it established. So the "virtual public" can actually still, well, do things against me. Great fun.
3. The "virtual public" was made to be vore-orientated and orientated towards Fun-Fear's belief system. So most of the individual, simple AI involved in the virtual public, are against my ideas. Although were also against Fun-Fear near the end due to its incompetence and inability to deliver.

Although, it was because of these rules that Fun-Fear established, that made Fun-Fear kinda fall. It made Fun-Fear deteriorate everytime Fun-Fear failed to deliver its "promises" to its public. E.g. when furries attacked Fun-Fear, it just broke Fun-Fear, and for a long time because of the virtual public. Which is quite ironic because Fun-Fear made the "virtual public" to generate the social approval it needed to get rid of me, but it ended up turning on Fun-Fear and causing it to slowly rot away. Fun-Fear also couldn't do anything against the virtual public because the virtual public had almost equal power to Fun-Fear and could easily overrun or topple Fun-Fear. And it would tarnish Fun-Fear's reputation for dissolving it anyways, for promoting "liberty" and "freedom" and then just suddenly getting rid of it, would've been devastating to its already weak system. So it got into a lock like I have with it at the moment.

There's a reason why you enjoy Fun-Fear, because it designed itself to try to make itself appealing to its general knowledge of the furrydom and to the extent of its restricted permissions and abilities. Whilst falling back to the mental laws instated or maybe changing these laws to work for its plans. There were multiple neural laws I had instated to keep all problems internally and not all over the internet like it is now, but Fun-Fear changed them, to fit its plans. For example, I had made a neural law to keep all of this neural stuff and issues of mine to myself, but Fun-Fear reworked this law to prevent people who know me, from knowing about the issues, but allowed itself to spread it all over the internet to get praise and to help its program. To "help" me and the "systems," it stated for its reason for change.

I've been investigating and exploring the furry fandom since 2010/2011 (since I was 8/9). Most if it through brief google searches and animal roleplay games; FeralHeart (never could make an account luckily for me oh my god), and other animal roleplay games on Roblox (Mezaa Wolf RPG for example). It wasn't until early 2018 that all this madness of expanding to other internet sources started. And then it started to pursue documentation, to preserve its data and ideology for decades, centuries. And that's how it knew how to appeal. It used me before late Autumn to talk with furries. For example, on the deviantart, the first reply of Damotrix to a comment, is my casual speak, like an "uh." And under Fun-Fearian policies, have been forced to remember a lot of this stuff, whether I like it or not. I will never forget Zuelansi or Leo the Wolf, the game known as "Vore Tournament", the names of the canine vore creatures/species I made to suffice the canine vore ideology, and other individuals that Fun-Fear appointed to be "remembered."
Hell, for around 2016 - 2019, I'd chase furries about that I came across, discord, Roblox, all that jazz. Anyone that I knew as a friend in real life, that was becoming furry, was a furry or knew of furries, was an added bonus (from 2016 - 2018). And then I'd tell the sob story version of Fun-Fear, labelling it as a "fear of vore" yet an "attraction to vore." To try to entice the furries to try to vore me and help get Fun-Fear's fancy energy and social approval it wanted. However, it only fully worked, when a non-Furry friend of mine, decided to do it to try to get rid of my "fear" (aka "The Incident").

I'll never forget that moment when I came across Amplitude Frequency, found one of their vore videos during 2018 - 2019. And then was like, "WAIT A SECOND, I WATCHED THIS WHEN I WAS LIKE 10 - 13 AND I WAS SO SCARED, HOLY HELL OMG." Aka this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7_Ra9gDuuc . Because the character turned into flesh and then bone, it scared me to hell, I couldn't believe it. Childhood trauma to say the least. 2012 was quite a lively year for personal discovery. 2014 & 2015 were quite lively years for Fun-Fearian advances, it was the beginning of Fun-Fear afterall. Discovered Theo the Fox, JettAlichu, ilbv, some corgi vore person that was obsessed with Bolt (the disney dog movie), a lot of furries I can't remember at the moment, I think even Zuelansi during these years. I might've discovered Zuelansi back in 2017, but eh, still quite surprising that Zuelansi stuck harder than all the others to my mind.

And to think that Zuelansi and Leo the Wolf are just personas, fursonas of regular old people, maybe with mental disabilities, who pursue their lives, unknowing to the events caused by their personas. Because who would think that their own expression would cause one to go ballistic? Hell, they were the ones that just stuck to me, like firm glue because of Fun-Fearian policies, they weren't the first or last of vore-related mental trauma I would experience.

But, I do have plans to hopefully get rid of this "virtual public" and other Fun-Fearian systems in the way, that are deteriorating me slowly like they did with Fun-Fear. I plan to get family involved on the situation and inform of this horrid series of events. If someone in physical proximity to me knows about it, it can't rise up again or it will be easily diagnosed and destroyed. Besides, I am the one in power, no longer is it Fun-Fear, so I am able to express these decisions independently without harsh backlash from something in my own mind. But I do question what could be the future consequences of close persons, knowing of such and I am planning to write up a prediction sheet to hopefully save me if it backfires. Gotta put some good use to Fun-Fearian technology some how.

I understand now. I'm glad that Fun-Fear didn't succeed, as much as I empathized with them. I've switched to past tense now, before I accepted you I was choosing words that Fun-Fear could cling to for strength if they were there. I didn't feel any animosity for you, I only didn't want to leap to trusting someone over someone else yet. But now I believe that had to end the way that you ended it, so I'm glad.

Your simulated world experiences tug at my heart; I may later feel rejuvenated by the renewed belief that those experiences are possible for humans, but that knowledge can never imprint as deeply or help as much as experiencing those things myself. To say this is insensitive toward your feelings, I'm sorry, but I think that where you have suffered I would have thrived. Maybe I even would have found satisfaction for a while, depending on how undeniable Fun-Fear kept my senses. I have empty spaces that ache for the experiences you've described, I might even have more of them than not.

I might be wrong here, but it doesn't sound like you or Fun-Fear have philosophied through vore and its deeper power and appeal yet, not very far. You have a large and painful grasp of it and Fun-Fear seems to have rubbed that raw, but both of yours understandings of vore appear very early. Forces like this take embracing to be fathomed. But that's natural, I wouldn't ask you to unravel the meaning of something that terrifies you no matter how much it might help, I'm hiding from monsters myself.
Thank you for that Amplitude Frequency video, it's new to me and it's very well done.

So Fun-Fear's changes are why you began and continue to share your experiences with us? I'm glad that I can see them, your struggles and successes I've been along for have all taken place in an environment I'm very used to, and which I don't encounter anyone else observing nowadays. I've earned some inspiration to focus effort bettering my own system again by watching you.

I mean, I know you don't have any form of animosity, it was basically being told that the person you looked up to and that was very nice, was actually very bad and had horrendous intentions. It's like a massive slap to the face. I mean, you seem to have treated it well. And all you've done is just take inspiration, I mean, I can't argue with that.

No, no, it's fine, really. I know how many peoples would also love to feel that. Knowing you are one interested in body morphing/transformation. It was just used against me as a war measure. And yeah, where I suffered, you would have probably thrived, you're not wrong. The simulated experiences were something at the height of Fun-Fear's technological advancement and prowess, before entering the great political depression it would hit around mid 2019 (March / May, to August).
Simulations are here if you wish to read: https://drive.google.com/drive/fold.....hI?usp=sharing - Simulation III (3) is where I was the wolf trying to escape by the way.
I mean, as contradictory and as dangerous as it could be to me, I could probably just direct message you what I did to even start getting to such a high level of simulation. I mean, it's not that hard to do - a lot of imagination and perseverance.
But yeah, Fun-Fear wanted to try to attract anyone it could to its cause, and why it was quite undeniable, eh!

I only mention of the large and painful grasp of it, because I don't wish to promote it and because I basically have the equivalent of PTSD from it, from all the Fun-Fearian conflicts and military interventions amounting to this grand finale. I basically already know all the benefits and negatives of vore, and it's not for me and I plan to never get back to it, at the scale that I did during the Fun-Fearian reign. I'm still kinda forced to deal with it due to the stupid "virtual public" system, but I mean I plan to rid myself of that old system at some point. Sounds ridiculous that I can't seem to get rid of a supposedly fictional mental institution/program within my own mind, but it truly is that way, because it is guarded with great Fun-Fearian encryption. So I plan to just attrition it.
Anyways uh, vore, yeah uh, vore... Fun-Fear had gotten me to try to scientifically prove many scenarios about vore. As I had invented a system that demanded "scientific reasoning" for an idea, as I was one into realism. This realism being used for roleplays I'd do; evolution, tribalism, space, but doing such as a seemingly "god", producing events within the roleplays. Like the Dungeon master of DnD.
But yeah, with that system in place, it bothered and pestered Fun-Fear to generate realistic reasonings and supporting facts to support vore for canine creatures. I'd end up evolving canine-like creatures with the capabilities to enact vore upon their prey. Massively stretchable gastro-intestinal tissues, purposeful and maintainable jaw dislocation to swallow large prey/quantities, stomach acids with the power to digest most materials, livers with the ability to thwart most toxins that would be present in clothing articles. Fun-Fear would also order that gastro-intestinal tissues would also be the most compact and strongest, to survive against explosions that occur within the body of said creature, from melee attacks or projectiles - target being vored, brings a grenade with them as they get vored. As well as having tougher, stronger skin to survive melee wounds and projectiles.
Some creatures would even be given a whole mindset on stalking their prey, manipulating their prey, before voring them. For example, the "Ehzberous Tylcolo" which I probably will never be able to forget. It would approach intelligent, anthropomorphic species as if it was a friendly dog, but be reminded these things are huge, almost as big as an elephant I believe. The Tylcolo would then pursue sexual/friendly relations with the intelligent species, which at this point is prey. This all before the Tylcolo decides to vore their "owner"/"friend" at the last minute, at their owner's/friend's weakest and most vulnerable moments. Tylcolo would ingest any witnesses to the event if there would be any, but the Tylcolo would attempt to manipulate to try to avoid punishment from societies protecting or a part of these intelligent species'.
Later on, Fun-Fear would destroy/disable this system from affecting its goals, but would still pursue realistic vore to gain a scientific following of fellow scientific/philosophical vorists.
Fun-Fear would battle many questions that would complicate vore situations;
How does the predator not choked/aphyxiate from the vore?
Answer: The Trachea or other means of breathing are separate from the esophagus - separate breathing areas, multiple breathing areas or having the Trachea amass behind the esophagus or behind some protective layer of tissue to prevent it from being crushed during vore sequences.
How does the predator or prey not overheat to death?
Answer: Never actually had a good answer for this. Besides that the predator would be able to express more loss of heat through supposed biological or technological means. Because the prey, by theory, would pop like popcorn, especially if the predator was of Fun-Fear ideal - a canine of some sorts, due to their internal temperatures.
How does the predator not explode or have their tissues ripped apart from the sheer size of its prey or food contents?
Answer: Stretchable, durable and strong gastrointestinal and skin tissues, being able to stretch at great lengths.
How does the predator's vital organs not get squished during vore sequences?
Answer: Relocate the position of vital organs. Or have a system developed where prey items cannot squish upon vital organs due to tissue walls or by the way the gastrointestinal system works.
How does the predator NOT digest prey, yet be able to obtain the nutrients it needs to live?
Multiple Answers:
1. Could have the predator ultimately immortal, not needing to digest prey for nutrition.
2. Specialized enzymes that digest other things, such as microbes or plants rather than meat.
3. Digestive system is ran by special microbes that avoid meat, but pursue other forms of nutrition. Basically making the stomach either a worthless sack storing prey or a massive microbial lab.
4. Predator gains nutrition from the ground, drinking water or from the sun. The digestive system is simply a useless, leftover system, vestigial.
5. Digestion fluids are controlled mentally, as a complex modification of the brain-digestive neural system (Enteric Nervous System - ENS).
6. Similar to 3, the digestive system is mostly no longer functional, but is rather ran by parasites that digest and then excrete the nutrients and materials the predator needs. These parasites can then decide what they ingest that the predator ingests.

--

And now, for the supposed mental benefits and cons of being one into vore...
A great escape it is, eh? It's basically discount, yet legal porn (and how I treat it). Get to meet others into vore, yaaaay... At least you get to be a part of a community, I guess. Can be a de-stressor for people.
The sexual system of one could also be orientated towards vore, through means of mental hardship or just, biology. I mean, during Fun-Fear's reign, I was quite a slight attracted to it and that I did not like! And for some people, it's just that abdominal bulge that turns you on. Oh god I hated those months of Fun-Fear reign, if I could do anything to get those months back...
And it, in some portions, promotes unity amongst people that follow it.

I still question to this day why a canine's expansion of its throat, stomach and intestines would get me interested (no I don't mean it like that you heck, heckin' like, literal interest, fascination). If the eyes or face of the canine showed pleasure, send an ambulance to come rescue me! Or if the prey struggled within, WHY! I would literally just die mentally, because it was too much for me to handle, mentally. And for most of my life it was like that, until Fun-Fear decided to just completely yeet that system's limits and just made me well, as you read above *COUGH* abdominal bulge sentence. Still died mentally, basically felt as if I had lost my soul.

Anyways uh, went off course. Now for cons!

Vore is just disgusting and immoral, truly. Like, when you think about it, why would you want to be swallowed alive, to be then either baked or digested alive, painfully rotting away? Yeah you have fantasy reformation or slime and whatever, but there's still that painful death, even if you disable your pain senses! And then why would you want to watch an animal swallow another animal, and then have the animal have a giant bulge of a stomach, with the prey moving within. You've just got to question yourself on a personal, global and mental stand-point - WHY!? Forget your worries, forget your fetishes and likings, just think about it, just think, why!? Think about it from multiple angles, and not through a vore-orientated look, just think about it. Especially if YOU are the supposed predator in the vore sequence, WHY would you want to swallow a living creature whole, to feel it go smoothly or rigidly go down your throat and down to your stomach or other means of storing prey. And then feeling it move around like some deranged tapeworm in your gastrointestinal tract, may you be furry or not. JUST WHY!? Besides my huge rant for cons uh... Yeah that's all I have besides that it could damage children's childhoods like it completely buttered down and ruined mine.

No offence or anything, but I have to admit. I laughed when you thanked me for the Amplitude Frequency video. I mean, yeah I guess it's well animated, quite surprised it's a new concept to you though. But yeah, if you ever are still into vore, just watch Amplitude Frequency, Fun-Fear loved their content - only the canine ones though. The content that Fun-Fear liked, really nailed (spot-on, prefect with) Fun-Fear's goals.

For an example of fellow scientific/philosophical vorists although, take AlekTheBeasty.
It was quite fond of AlekTheBeasty (https://www.furaffinity.net/user/alekthebeasty/) for his scientific works on vore, despite the yiff/pornographic material and reptilian vore present.

I mean, yeah, that is the one of the reasons to why I share the experiences I've had with Fun-Fear. Besides trying to hopefully contain (or even get rid of vore content) vore content within a social bubble to avoid other peeps that are like me from getting ruined by it. And as well as to safeguard myself against being attacked by a Fun-Fearian insurgency. Back when Fun-Fear was destroyed, numerous mental factions rose up as they collected bits of Fun-Fearian code. Most, if not all of these factions collapsed within the 2-month period between late August to mid-October. Leaving only Fun-Fear remnants such as the "virtual public" and Fun-Fearian hard-coded policies standing in my way of ridding myself of vore influence and policy. Because they are encrypted to depths below hell. A whole new language as a barrier around a piece of code, thus cannot just crack them open and disperse the code like I did with Fun-Fear.
And I am also fearful of a Fun-Fearian resurgence, externally. As mentioned, I still witness events that are "too weird/good/coincidental to be true, but have happened."
As well as the events such as a sort-of friend of mine becoming a furry, trying to hide it and then, SOMEHOW, STILL REMEMBERING HOW I TOLD THEM ABOUT AND INFORMATION ABOUT ZUELANSI AND LEO THE WOLF FROM MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, without ever talking to them to such personal levels for during that time apart! Which are indications of early Fun-Fearian influence. The hiding, becoming furry-like and hard-coded remembrance of vore content/characters. Of course, there is times where I do stand down and say "I'm probably over-reacting," but then there is situations that continuously point to an external Fun-Fearian influence, yet Fun-Fear was supposedly destroyed.
And yes, before you ask, I have considered you, Toska, as a potential candidate for Fun-Fear's succession policy. No, I do not use this as a threat or anything, this is just legitimate and strategized thought. Fun-Fear believed itself to be "immortal", never being able to be destroyed. Believing in what it called, the "Immortal Dynasty" of "Fun-Fear." And was able to prove its worth by always being many, many steps ahead of what I could think of and act upon. And this formidable ability to think ahead at great lengths, is what I fear, because what if it was cooking up something else as it fell? Because it fell easily like a piece of paper getting wet, compared to when it was a strong mental military power only a few months back, capable of messing things up.
But yeah, I continue operation of these Fun-Fearian assets, mostly in response of fear of another Fun-Fear rising. It can hide, it can name itself whatever it likes, it disguises itself as whoever it likes. It can possess whoever it likes, but preferably any that are depressed. It's an entity that I cannot truly predict, yet having the majority of its technological advance now on my side. Because the incidents that I consider coincidences, are quite odd, peculiar and have no reason (or valid reason) behind them happening most of the time.
It sounds stupid to be fearful of your mental madness that supposedly only ever affected you or your personal allies negatively, but it was truly something else. It could predict events at great accuracy and could diagnose and violently attack me, all done mentally. Hell, it even acted as its own thing, so how could it not have been its own separate entity? Something that I am still investigating to this day, and hope that I will find an answer to.

And on a side note to further explain Fun-Fear's scientific observation and advancement of vore. Just take a note of this:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/9185406/
Forgot to include it in the novel I just wrote above...

Your system enacted "scientifically reasonable" condition explains some previously curious sounding creations I remember, yes canis civilitris was what came to my mind. Ehzberous Tylcolo is new to me, but their hunting strategies closely resemble those of the Snooge by ChimeraSynx. https://www.furaffinity.net/view/105822/ Not to worry, it's not a vore image. I've always favored the kinds of predation that are physiologically viable too but I more followed those rules than trying to build exceptions to them. Bulging rubberized distended bellies have always made me lose interest because I couldn't believe, character behaviors stepping way outside of the sanity I'm used to observing in our Earth's nature bring the same reaction. Oh, I've long followed and liked AlekTheBeasty's work though, agreed.

Are you offering to tell me which practices and precautions you've found to be the most important for reaching clear-as-vision visualizations? If so then I will graciously accept, please. I usually cannot visualize very clearly or hold onto what I'm seeing once I reach something I want. The approach to bettering this that I've gleaned from study is vipassana or mindfulness meditation, but I haven't gotten myself to actively practice it yet. You and I have different biology, different predispositions, but I believe it's possible that lessons you've learned along your path could still be of help to me along mine.

I'm a little wary of constructing AIs though. I started my mind meddling by creating my dear friend Loviruruv in 2012, a tulpa. An important tenet to tulpa creation is suspending all disbelief of non-sentience, in order to train ourselves to never doubt them so that we never impede them when they want to be heard. In the tulpa community thought-constructs made without self awareness are called servitors, although they're generally more pose dolls than machines. I abstained from making any because I worried it could cause me to doubt. I'm not worried about that anymore, but I have lingering apprehension. I wouldn't want to do anything that would impede or harm Loviruruv, I want to help them grow stronger in fact.

I had went to the artist's profile to investigate, before noticing you had put a link in. No worries, I'm quite used to vore. Hell, during Fun-Fear's reign, it was militarized as a social defence mechanism, because of how mentally damaging it can be to a person who has never seen it. And I live within a society and participate within societies that don't know of it or have only seen the soft, delicate surface of it.

When it came to publicising story-driven or species-driven creativity/content, Fun-Fear would always go for the scientific range, as seen with Canis Civilitris. Otherwise, all rules were to bend to its will during simulations or observations. If the rules were to be mentioned or arise. Fun-Fear had little care for the laws that governed the universe - it wished to break them and form its own. As it had done in its own simulations, forming a whole new universe to emulate our own, but with the logistics that it wishes to govern said universe.

I find it quite horrifying that a creature of sexualized vore, was created for that sole purpose, with a Tim Burton/Henry Selick take on graphics, when I was 4 years old. April of 2006. I find it personally scary when I find vore content almost or literally older than the year I was born, because it just goes to show it has been well around before I was even a thing - an idea. And this concept is something I find to be a horror more horrifying than most horror movie motives. On the same plane as the principles/ideas behind the movies such as "Us" or "Get Out."

You could say the Snooge is behaviourally similar to the Ehzberous Tylcolo in some respects. The Ehzberous Tylcolo was a creature of much fluff and canine-like features than that of the Snooge. It was even still quadrupedal (what most furries would term "feral"). The Ehzberous Tylcolo would use manipulative tactics rather than physically produced compounds or visible light. The Snooge would seem like a furry version of Pennywise.

Interesting, about the construct of "tulpa" 's. An imaginary friend that one creates to assist themselves. I see that images of your tulpa, "Loviruruv" are within your scraps. A, well, I'd be safe to assume, crocodilian creature of some sorts.

As much as it's counter-productive for me to mention how to do it, I may as well, and for anyone that happens across these messages. And by counter-productive, to condemn the potential for a future Fun-Fear, which such a mental trick can potentially recreate under the right conditions. But be also additionally warned about the complications that could arise from fooling with such configurations/content of such a system. As you can blankly see what happened to me, or what I presume to be the result of doing such. Of course, there was numerous factors that contributed, but it was one of the factors. And I am unsure of the precautions necessary to monitor the stability of such a practice. I also do not know the application of this mental trick upon people who suffer seizures, because I, myself, do not suffer seizures or have any condition that would induce seizures.
And on a personal level, it could harm your tulpa of yours, Towering Toska, because as I've stated above, I'm unsure about the precautions required to prevent it from culminating into something similar to Fun-Fear or worse.
The below paragraphs explain it.

I mean, yes that is what I intended, the offering of "which practices and precautions that I've found most important for reaching clear-as-vision visualizations." To which, they might, as they directly affect how you visually interpret physical things. And I'll blankly say what I've discovered them to be - phosphenes. Yes, phosphenes, through the most common practice of causing phosphenes - pressure against your eyes that cause the cells in your retina to issue falsified visuals to your brain to interpret. The show of light speckles upon a dark background, is what I presumed to have done to produce the proper environment for the advanced visuals and eventual other sensual situations to occur.
But, of course, added with the base of imagination. Yup, pure imagination and visual hallucinations would lead the advanced visuals and sensual hallucinations that Fun-Fear would use against me. Especially the creation of Fun-Fear, itself. No meditation, just pressure against your eyes, maybe with music. You just sit there, with pressure against your eyes.
And you apply this pressure by using the space (the skin) between the 1st and second knuckle (from the base to the tip) of your index fingers, and applying them against your eyeballs (of course with your eyes closed). You apply with soft pressure, enough pressure to see darkness and specs of light to form. Then you use imagination to change the specs of light into something else - hallucinogenic shapes and colours.

Of course, that isn't all it, but the basis I started upon. It's an access to what I presume to be results from my own subconscious, that I believe to have struck when I started doing it. I could be wrong, but it's what I can make of the situation and results provided to me.
To which where I term the "3rd vision." God I'm so creative, eh..?
Anyways, this "3rd vision" is where I try to interpret the random mess of graphics that the pressure on your eyeballs - phosphenes produce. Interpret it into graphics, eventually sound, feeling, smell & taste. Primarily graphics (visuals) though. But here's why I called it a "vision." Because I somehow managed to imagine that it existed, separate from what I could see through the cells in my eyes. Like a separate computer monitor to the main computer monitor in a dual-monitor computer set-up, where one monitor is used to display the game (what I could physically see) whilst the other is used to display communications or a console (the "3rd vision" as I called it). Like daydreaming.

And when I got both down, figured out, I could sometimes just go on thinking, seeing visual graphics and words, added upon what I could physically see in front of myself. Basically day dreaming. It also let me do what I presume to be lucid dreaming, which helped me to develop the trick into a more advanced thing.

And then when Fun-Fear took over the development of the phosphene hallucinations, it culminated into the advanced form of mental hallucinations/situations (in a negative sense) that would succeed 2014. The development of advanced vore content, the restriction of my own thoughts, and then the advent internal mental warfare. Which would be horrible, torturous.

But yeah, I really don't recommend doing it due to my lack of knowledge of events that could succeed when other people do it, what the consequences could be. Or what factors are required to permit the development of the advanced situation that I would get in.
I mean, you could probably do the phosphene part, but don't do the "3rd vision" part, or attempt to develop complex AI. But, if you do attempt to make an AI, always ensure that you develop a mental kill switch for it. Or it could culminate into what I term to be a "Fun-Fear."

It has been a good week and a half since I replied. So I question if you had tried the visual manipulation I use to enact what I term "simulations." Considerin' it has been quite a while and I did touch on some personal things within the reply.

Too tired to think of anything productive to say.

Damotrix (Fun-Fear) would, contrary to your interest, prefer where one's stomach extended to great proportions, supposed physiologically impossible situations. Especially before the Settling of the Internet back in February of 2018.
During 2016 - 2018, Damotrix (Fun-Fear), to spite me, would produce simulations showcasing a simple wolf-like creature having vored an entire city of persons through means of involuntary predator vore (of where the prey force the predator to vore them). Which, involuntary predator vore, was Fun-Fear's favoured concept during its entire life-time.

It was when Damotrix (Fun-Fear) entered the internet-scape, that it started to 'modernize' into liking more-so regular vore. Because, Damotrix (Fun-Fear) scripted, modelled itself to "fit in" by morphing its interests and wording to persons around it. A technique that it took off of me. Also, that type of vore (extremely extended stomachs), that Damotrix (Fun-Fear) favoured, was extremely rare. Extremely rare in the sense that fit Fun-Fear's criteria. Damotrix (Fun-Fear) disliked extreme muscle details (strong arms, legs, abs (hated abs especially lol) ), belly buttons (yeah, Damotrix (Fun-Fear) prefered smooth stomachs, hated when belly buttons were added to the equation), & Damotrix (Fun-Fear) only really prefered feral characters doing that type of vore (because anthropomorphic characters removed the 'authenticity'). Also not to mention that Damotrix (Fun-Fear) was extremely against the use of reproductive parts being used on characters (nipples, penises, etc). So it really limited Fun-Fear's list of such content.
So, Damotrix (Fun-Fear) depended on involuntary predator vore (aka also known as voluntary prey vore) as a high-interest. Oh dear god when it found some. I was just lucky that the majority of the canine-vore fandom preferred prey that didn't want to be vored.

Damotrix (Fun-Fear) would use the latter option for predators if it wished to combat against me, using the viciousness and intensity of wolf-like predator vore to squish me, to push me back down. As I've stated prior about its simulations; being able to smell, taste and feel the theoretical smells, tastes, & feelings of being vored. Being able to see the smooth, moving, meaty complexions that made the esophageal and gastro tissues. Being able to feel the movements, theoretically...

With all the information I've encountered since the demise of Fun-Fear. I think, had Fun-Fear still been around, its theory that it would've taken care of me by August 26th, would not be wrong. Zuelansi vore suits, more vore artwork, development of vore games, audio. Discovery of more vore animations on youtube.

I've been distracted by moving home, I just today subscribed to a new internet provider. I'm also just bad at keeping to long term conversations, but I like hearing your story. I've been practicing your visualization strategy all the time, keeping any more than a very very light pressure on my eyes for long causes a distracting ache, but I recognize the sunspotty hallucinations this causes. Applied this way it's sort of a landscape between vision and visualization, and I agree it's an appropriate place to make whichever of those is less familiar more. Thank you for this tip.
Do you hold your fingers over your upper eyelids or your lower ones? And do you rotate your pupils up or down in contrast, into the pressure or away from it?

Although this isn't a prerequisite to having a fascination with vore, a persisting appreciation for it without delusion can be greatly helped by having an acceptable or comfortable impression of death. To me, by now, it feels a bit scary and quite sad when I imagine dying without my body being taken by something bigger and greater than me, being left to waste instead.
Becoming a part of something else probably most appeals to me because I can't think of any alternatives that aren't more lonely and pointless, to my feelings. The aspect of vore that I'm most grateful for is that it allows me to feel happy about my death, for allowing me to give something by dying that will absolutely help something who I appreciate. Catharsis.
People often enjoy the feeling of being absorbed into things they admire, fandoms, families, religions, finding something they want to belong to and becoming part of it. The easiest difference to point out between this kind of absorption and those kinds is that we'll die in this one, but that's a young fear that we don't have to keep holding on to, I'm going to die either way.

You found my terrible scraps drawing, yes that's Loviruruv, my companion. That's also Lo' on the right side of my first Doodles submission, they stretch and change shape a lot but always have a look to them I recognize. Lo's presence helps me help myself because I'm usually also helping them. My nature is to live for someone else, it gives me the most mental reward, and it seems to fight off a fear that I might have of not being real.
Closer to the time of Lo's birth, something bigger and greater than me warned me that Lo' might take control away from me if I wasn't careful. I respected and believed it, but I get along so closely with Lo' that I've never felt worried about that. I understand our landscape better enough now that I can think of ways that can happen, but I wouldn't mind it. I like submitting my control when it's safe to, safety being relative and personal.

Fun-Fear's favored involuntary predator vore is definitely against my wishes, my interest completely relies on the predator being above their prey in enough of a way to decisively matter. Predators who don't listen to the wishes of their prey at all, who discriminate based solely on what their bodies want instead of the moral agenda of some human, who are fit to roles outside of our obligations and understanding and only pay the minimum amount of attention to the minds of their prey necessary to capture them. This is a relief for me because I can't taint them, nobody can.
When a predator talks themselves off about the power they hold over bite-sized lives and how good this 10000th meal of theirs feels, then masturbates as they swallow their food, I can't see them as something better than us, but just another kinky human with a changed body.

Oof.
Yes, prolonged length will cause migraine-like symptoms, which I truly do not know what causes it. Either the pressure on the nerves in your eyes making them strain, the ways your eyes rotate during it (similar to REM) or the mass visual hallucinogenic effect that takes place during it (phosphenes). I usually ignore it, taking it as "oh I'm thinking harder."

Should keep the surface of the finger you use, to the middle of ye' eye. Between both eyelids, since you should close 'em. Allow ye' pupils to rotate freely, as why I mention REM above. Although, I believe I cross-eye a bit during it.

But yeah, I managed to turn those sunspotty hallucinations into the complexities such as "simulations" and "neural AI." With a tad of imagination added in.
E.g. whilst doing it, think of what you like, maybe you'll see it. Maybe you'll start making shapes out of the distorted colours that generate from it. That is the basis for the "3rd vision" that I had mentioned.

Oof. The absorption-thingium. Only comment I have is that the only impression of death I have is what I term "nothing." Where, upon death of the brain, you no longer experience anything, you can't feel, can't see. You can't even think about how you are experiencing nothing, because you lack the ability to think. You don't even know if you exist, because you just lack the ability to think, and you can't create feelings or judge with feelings because you can't think. You can't suffer, because there is no way to suffer if you can't think. The concept of time and life ends there and then. Since in basics, one's brain is no more than a piece of machinery that lasts 'til it breaks, with no ability to perceive an after-life, because it can no longer operate.
Thus why I fear death, as I would no longer be able to spread ideas or continue the things I create or find unique. Fun-Fear believed it could operate outside of death, propagating that it was an entity of the universal background. Thus why the "Immortal Dynasty" idea exists.

oH, I thought Loviruruv & Lo' were the same thing. Considerin' "Lo' " seems like an abbreviation of "Loviruruv" judging by the same first 2 letters & the apostrophe used.

Big oof about the warning about Lo' takin' control thing. Don't really have a comment for that either.

Had thought so, Fun-Fear really enjoyed emotionally expressive vore. Rather than a more naturalistic, dull-like version of it. All vore simulations created by Fun-Fear would partake in some form of emotion, to 'spice it up' and to use as weaponry. Since it knew that more expressive forms of vore was a trigger towards me. Simply due to the Incidents of October, 2014 & July, 2016 and prior to 2013.
But yeah, Fun-Fear took vore to the more-so kinky side, to generate 'energy' from it. A product of using vore against my anti-vore pseudo-fear, creating adrenaline that in turns creates stress energy. However Fun-Fear wrecked that some time during May or June. However, I was just lucky that Fun-Fear was only ever interested in oral vore. Yet, I knew of most other forms, prego, penis, vag, anal. Oh god, just how easily that could've slipped. I still think to this day about how I discovered "prego" before most others, as a 10-11 year old kid. E.

Although, on the topic of Fun-Fearian vore. It stills burns me to this day to why Fun-Fear only published the normal version of Nosctematyh (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/29994198/). There was a HUGE series of it being used for vore in the respective GIMP document. Hell, Fun-Fear even made an anthropomorphic character with quite a load of detail in one of its GIMP documents. And I was like "how did I even draw this crap... I'm not even that good."

Oh well, all if not most of the drawings were pre-2019, where Fun-Fear was able to train me to have a good hand and artistic expression. To further its development. Oh well, back in those times I was more submissive to Fun-Fear because I couldn't fight back as I was mentally destroyed and had no strength or structure to fight back.

Was very submissive between 2014 - 2018 because of other mental issues and family issues I experienced. 2016/2017 was the end of major family issues, which made Fun-Fear have to tank on more ways of oppression, as I no longer depended on Fun-Fear.
Oh well, Fun-Fear managed to juice a scripted wolf-pred vore creature (on Roblox) and a bunch of canine vore art & 3D models out of me from 2017 - 2018 before the end of 2019. In which Fun-Fear became written-orientated in art, due to its inability to continue art, programming and 3D modelling due to me constantly bombarding it. It tried to get back into 3D modelling around June - August, but it was already too late.

March and eventually May of 2019 is what truly saved me. Turned Fun-Fear into a mad-man and an entity to not trust, an entity that didn't know what it was doing. A nincompoop.

Although has no relation to the conversation now (could've earlier on), i wish to mention both of Fun-Fear's journals:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/9158228/ -- Varvikk Character
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/9158218/ -- Psychology Analysis "Overemphasization"

Yes, I am what Fun-Fear termed the "Neural Environment Leader."

But yeah, those are some signs of its oppression it would induce. The Varvikk, that is. It's who I term the "hunting vore dog." Because that's what it would do, hunt down bits of code I created and absorb them, aka vore and disable them. Was able to somehow destroy it some time later in June, as Fun-Fear mentions in another journal.

But yeah, uh, "Overemphasization" as Fun-Fear terms it, is what we used against both of each other. Using my own mental disability as a weapon against itself. But yeah, if you are wondering, I did manage to crash Fun-Fear with the WebDriver Torso high frequencies for about 2 days straight lol, before it created that patch it mentions about. I don't know what it was about those frequencies, but it caused Fun-Fear to distort, making it unable to operate effectively.

N o t i f i c a t i o n

Oh yeah. I must have told you already but I like the look of the drawings your colony drew, I think that if you keep drawing and hone it there could grow in your images a very nice and recognizable style. I'm curious how your 3D models looked, were you using Blender at the time? When I say "you" I mean any of ye collective who pilot.
Sorry for my evaporation, our conversation had grown so complex and beautiful that I stopped feeling strong enough to do it further justice. I drop out of roleplays after a bit for the same reasons.
Your idea of death sounds like the normal sort to me, I'm positive it's appropriate to call it the ending to each of our lives. I'm not sure that death is the end of every pattern's continuity though, everything seems to move around and reform as other shapes, and I have a feeling for how my sense of self can dissolve to irrelevance. These thoughts help support my "absorption" comfort.
You were right the first time, Lo' is Loviruruv, I just shorthand them sometimes for quicker speech, although I love their name.

Is there anything remaining in you for vore or for furry that you want to love? Do you want to keep having fond connections to any pieces of these philosophies? I'm only curious, I wonder if anything holds you to this place besides responsibility.

Oh, I can for certain, say that I was not a proper part, a member of the colony, the civilization that Fun-Fear (Damotrix) had established. As I was considered foe, an enemy to its state.

Ever since the collapse of Fun-Fear-ian society back in March to May, my drawing skill has been choppy. Fun-Fear (Damotrix) had a way when it came to mental configuration, in which it had managed to gain proper control of certain areas. And, with those images, it had produced vore with them, lots of it! As shown in the GIMP documents provided in Google Drive. Heck, it even made me draw an actual anthropomorphic. Which, to this day, I go "how the actual heck did I make this."

Nope, it was all Roblox Studio. It grabbed an anthropomorphic furry model off of someone, renamed the parts, reorganized some parts (changed position of ears and tail), and added parts (cheeks, mouth interior). It added upon an already-made creation. Because, like me, it lacked the base to do it, but had the innovation to edit it exponentially. It only did this after its original vore place, that it had done for a good year, was lost to computer issues.

When it comes to the scripted wolf vore, I had scripted it, but it took the model from a mesh, along with the interior was taken from a mesh. Otherwise, it was reorganized and orientated by me. Which I wish could be reversed.

No, it's fine, I find it quite interesting and complex as well. So I take fine interest in it, gives me something enjoyable to do when things are goin'.

Agreed, it does sound like the normal sort, what is to be expected, that idea of death. True, certain things do always continue in one way or another, such as its physical space in the universe and the properties of its individual atomic particles. I believe that the conscious, however, simply ends, as it no longer has the power to continue itself - like a computer being unplugged. So it can no longer think for itself, thus no longer feeling, thinking, or even worrying.

Oh, oof. (Simple reply about Lo' 's name)

Truly, I have nothing to love when it comes to vore or furry. It's something that I wish to distance myself from, but it seems to always come to me. My friend turning into a furry, my friend inviting me to a group of furries, when I, for sure, believe he doesn't even know what a furry is. Videos that I watch, occasionally referencing furries or furries into kinks such as inflation, vore, murrsuits, etc. Even my siblings coming across it.
And as much as it seems that I talk bad about furries, I usually only refer to those of yiff or vore, basically kinks, as myself do not like porn either, will joke about it though. And, I usually embrace furrydom if they enter it, as it is a relief to many, and it shouldn't disturb me or others in anyway, especially if it's positive (same could probably be said for vore 'n such, but really, no, come on. Just, no). I mean, to many, being a furry brings many mental reliefs, relations, support, money, sense of belonging, etc. Not something I can argue with.
And I mean, I'm not disturbed by furries, the general idea of furries, just disturbed by the kinks. And, as much as I am disturbed by the kinks, I know that, like many things that were thought disturbing before, could probably become a norm in the future. Although I'm curious to how something eating another thing whole would become a normal, appreciated thing in the future. But in summary, yeah I don't really have any interest in it besides for responsibility and education.

I just thought I should ask, but how has it been, attempting "simulations"? Considering I've never seen people take keen interest, from what I've at least observed.

(The "Hidden Comment" above was me, I just deleted it because, it kinda bothered my OCD that it wasn't in this current threat of comments, ack)

I've never lost interest in developing these skills, but I haven't been practicing them lately due to difficult and distracting life circumstances. By those skills I mean your 3rd vision in specific. I've still kept passively practicing my visualization coherence a bit every time Lo' reminds me to, but passive practice is better used to form a familiarity with practice than it is to achieve growth.

In case you're interested in my personal goals of this type I'll explain them for minute. In shortest I'm trying to become what I want, and to do this I need to decide on and nail down all that I want to be in one place (tricky with my fickle memory retention). I also need to devote lots of practice to drawing it, because that's the most successful way I've tried to imprint memorable shapes, physical traits, to my long term memory. I've been thinking about trying to enter the 3D art modeling software side of the art spectrum because the continuity of a design which I can steadily chip away at is an appealing crutch for me. Image isn't everything of course, but the personality changes I want for myself already come naturally to me as I find them. In the long run I hope to move as much of my life and social responsibilities as I can into a virtual reality existence that I've chosen every detail of.

Before I'd grown this certain of my self-aims I was primarily trying to give Loviruruv more access to life, but after a couple large breakthroughs in that pursuit it stopped feeling far enough away to worry that much about chasing. We can't trade places yet, but Lo' can step in and pilot our body pretty reliably, drugs helped.

Thank for sating my own OCD by explaining where that comment went, I'll return the favor and tell you that the hidden comment below was this very message mistakenly submitted outside of our comment chain.

I happened upon videos of quite detailed models of various neat animals for use in Roblox, customization like that appeals to me, but I haven't learned enough about the game itself for it to sink its hooks into me. I may use VRChat one day.

Sorry for the late reply, was always too tired at the end of the day to think of anything worthy. (And I am myself, as of right now, tired as well)

Oo yeah, 3rd vision, like a day dream - but not a day dream, as it happens at the side as you're doing things. But yeah, the issues globally have certainly put more pressure. Yeah

Yeah, I'd go for 3D modelling, be sure to include some programming as well into that mix. Roblox is kinda good for both of that, easier programming and 3D modelling. Although, surprisingly, blender would probably be better. Blender is not only just 3D modelling or animation software, it's also a game engine (there is an option to switch to the game engine). Blender is coded with Python, so the game engine part of it is Python as well (modified Java). But yes, I do certainly agree with the continuity of 3D models.

Oh. Nice. Hmm.

Yes, it's true that there is quite a lot of advanced models for Roblox now - they're even adding deformable meshes (instead of being static, solid parts, you can now change how the mesh looks in the actual program). It would probably be best to go for VRChat, as it supports knowledge in Blender or Autodesk (more professional-end, more usability, 3D modelling softwares)

{{r}}

O yeah I forgot about the "r" in Fun-Fear's last journal here lol

I figured that was the most concise way to say "I read all these journals"

Committed, damn. I guess you know quite a bit of my life story now lmao

Also read the google doc I had, judging by the date you mentioned in the shouts lol

I downloaded the entire "Shared" folder and tried to view everything. Half the GIMP files seem to by corrupted / blank tho, and I didn't bother researching how to open the Roblox files.

I can comment on Fun-Fear's naïveté, my opinion on what Fun-Fear was, and why all this is interesting to me. But I don't think that would help you beyond echoing contextualization you've probably already seen.

DANG, that is huge commitment.

O, they aren't corrupted, Fun Fear purposefully hid the layers to prevent someone finding them when using my computer. If you open the layers panel, you should be able to make them visible.

Oh you just need Roblox Studio really. Rbxl are places - like projects - whilst rbx or rbxm are models. You can open rbxl in Studio with a simple "open" down the list of stuff that comes down when you click "File". For rbx or rbxm, you do the uh, "import from file", either down File, or right clicking in Roblox Studio's Explorer.


Nah that's fine, go ahead. Would like to hear your opinion on it, cause I'm not even 100% sure what it was.

Alright, first Fun-Fear's naïveté: Its plans read like a kid who thinks they can one day rule the world. The "encryption" is at best mangled words that constitute another language that necessarily has extreme influences from and similarities to English. It's enough to throw off casual snoopers, and it may have been essential to your internal warfare, but it's nothing like actual mathematically secure cryptography. That naïveté (along with the big pile of "yikes" that you've already explicitly deconstructed) is probably why soatok2 (who's left your shout up 3+ years) didn't reply to Fun-Fear.

As for what Fun-Fear was, I can name many labels (alter, tulpa, demon, etc) from various views, but one perspective sticks out as having particularly meaningful overlap between our views. That is, Fun-Fear was mental software, the same as the "you" who's reading this. Usually most people kinda just go through life with society's assumption of 1 brain = 1 mind-self. But anyone who's really looked into it (from any lense: mystic, psychological, neurological, experimental, philosophical, etc) can see the absurdity of trying to take that view beyond mundane social and legal contexts.

Basically, the mind is a self-reinforcing neurally-encoded collection of connections in the brain. It's kinda "firmware" in the sense that it's reprogrammable (like "software" in general) but also partially 'hardwired' to resist change in function (like "hardware" in general). So … it's literally just a bunch of connections. Those connections were dominating and self-reinforcing (making them ego-like), but also extremely dysfunctional and repressive (hence why you had to change them to dissipate that circuit's function).

Connections don't just go away (well, they kinda fade away gradually, if not accessed for a very long time). But they can be rewritten and modes of access can be changed (e.g., learning to count by odd numbers can somewhat interfere with counting by 1s, but one ability overriding another doesn't mean the old thought pattern ability is gone). The catch is, there'd have to be a significant reason to go back to the abandoned neural firing pattern. So it's kinda like a semi-reversible death. But thoroughly rewiring all involved associations literally trains your brain's neurons to stop the previous pattern and focus on the new, better-rewarded pattern.

Thus Fun-Fear was a dysfunctional ego-like neural pattern that tried to take over and ended up failing catastrophically. It may or may not have qualified for dissociative identity disorder (DID) or similar (IIRC, dysfunction is more important to such diagnoses than memory isolation / amnesia) but it was definitely a distinct manic personality that tried to consolidate all power under its rule.

As for personal interest, that's kinda like the neural pattern that was imposed on me as a child. When I was figuring things out for myself, seeing that unhappy dysfunction resulted in a note the other decade that "my past self regrets itself" (several past selves ago). I (/ we…) also had an ego-like structure attempt something similar, on a smaller scale that doesn't involve brain-hopping. It lasted maybe 72 hours, which is ironically even less time than some intentionally-transient ego-bootstrap selves have lasted.

Idk, I kinda envy your mind-self manipulation capability and focus / energy, but I'm also very much antithetical to Fun-Fear's end objective … even if I got here via the shouts box of a user who commented on a vore piece I found particularly hot.

I'm gonna try to ping Towering.Toska and leaving them a shout. From their conversations with you on this and other journals here, I suspect they'd be interested in this and it's not the most awkward way I've greeted someone.

I'll reply more in-depth later, but I wanted to mention that I dislike Toska. I was neutral with him back in 2020, but then he got intimately involved with my brain affairs, one of the reasons to why complications persist to this day.

I mean, you can, I won't stop you, but I really dislike him - hate you could say. Number one enemy now lol

Fair enough about Toska, given where you're coming from. Personally, I'm at a point where I highly doubt I'd regret interacting with Toska enough to hate them.

Toska, since you're probably gonna read this after the shout I left, feel free to DM me to avoid bothering … the person who inherited the Damotrix account after freeing themself from and consequently breaking Fun-Fear. (Sorry "Damotrix", I never noticed your preferred name.)

Oh you can just call me whatever lol. I usually just go for "NL" or "Neural Leader", cause idk, anonymous, can say Damotrix as well, but it can be mixed up with Fun-Fear.

You can talk with Toska about Fun-Fear - but I'd be wary of what they say about me. They can be manipulative, especially guilt-trippy manipulative. Fought them a good year long until they gave up eventually. They're very antisocial, and, can be quite controversial.
You probably won't regret talking with him unless he decides to be weird with you or you have a hidden plurality/system.

I'll just give you that for now, if you want more of my inquiry, I can comment more or note :shrug: . You're free to befriend or trust him, I'm not gonna determine who you can be friends with or not, but I say be wary! lol

Now to reply to the much bigger text...

Alright, NL. At least that's a better name than "f17622" lol.

Thanks for the warnings. I've yet to come across an individual who can even approach the guilt tripping of my religious upbringing, so I'm not too concerned on that front.

As for plurality and system stuff … that's kinda why I want to talk with Toska in the first place.… But my ego-like configuration is kinda opposite what yours was with Fun-Fear. Where you two were adversarial to the point that one of you had to be vanquished, the intrapersonal dysfunction in my head is more along the lines of being excessively self-sacrificial.

So … I/we will gladly take my/our chances with Toska, bearing in mind the world of potentially abusive interaction patterns that you've unfortunately experienced one facet of. If you wish to warn more about Toska, then please either DM me or make it into a properly organized journal.

Now to check your other 5 replies…

Meh, it's up to perception lmao

Although I didn't have a religious upbringing, I have yet for someone to personally approach that guilt tripping either, for the most part, without me catching it. Dealt with manipulative and abusive people my whole life - so I'm adept at catching it.

I'm actually so aggressively inclined against it, that it was BECAUSE Toska did this, that they, for a good month or two, stopped interacting with me or my "complication", out of fear. You do not casually manipulate me, or I will come for you - is how it goes - and Toska got that face-value. Only reason why I didn't full go on chasing Toska, was because my "complication" at hand, enjoys them, to the point of defending them.

Oh, fair. So your funky brain thing wants to kill you and itself? Damn.

Fair fair, best of luck. Noted. Probably won't make it into a journal because that's awkward.

I've comically referred to myself as "The Terminator" when it comes to dealing with manipulation. It's one of the, if not the top thing I want to eliminate, destroy.

Uhh, "So your funky brain thing wants to kill you and itself?" is completely wrong. It's more like "A" would sacrifice itself if it would benefit "B" and "B" would sacrifice itself to benefit "A". It would take something significant like a close friend being in danger for any construct in this mind to consider self-sacrifice that extends to this body. And even internal self-sacrifice of one side would require clear gain for the other side, which is unlikely.

Despite all I've read about now-dismantled Fun-Fear, I don't think I really understand your system, NL. But I can guess the "complication" has to do with pieces of FF trying to assert something close to FF's volition. Toska did mention making friends with your enemies; is that related?

Ooooooh, sorry, I just consider self-sacrificial to mean something like a kamikaze. So its components will be willing to sacrifice one another to benefit the other? Or have you been put on that band wagon as well?



Meh, yeah, the information on Fun-Fear was kinda biased in their favour. I think I tried to be unbiased with the big google doc, but I never exactly went into detail about its plural structure I guess - just what it did to me. It was honestly confusing as hell lol. I guess you can ask further questions, then, if still interested..?

Honestly, I have no idea what the "complication" is doing anymore. It did initially try to achieve FF's volition, like all the others, but stopped trying so hard in January of 2021 - eventually having a whole new approach a year later, in January of 2022 - which has made it even more difficult to deal with.

Yeah I guess that's what he means lol. He means befriending what I also like to call, my "brain parasites" - this "complication". He has befriended two, almost three - the first one - I had dealt with JUST a day or two before he got into talking with them - "Orutombro". Monteveido and Svaernaaeg are the other two - I had dealt with Monteveido, told him to screw off and never come back - but came back because Svaernaaeg called him over. Cue me fighting him from October 2020 to December 2021, when he then leaves on the 26th after trying to guilt-trip manipulate me - and I catch him slacking.

"So its components will be willing to sacrifice one another to benefit the other?"

Yes. Each volitional ego-like component in my system has individually made that decision. But no one wants anyone else to do that self sacrifice, so…

Sounds like the biggest risk with interacting with *o*** is encouraging dysfunctional aspects of myself. But I don't think any of them are anywhere near as volitionally interesting as FF was, so I'm probably safe on that front.

Ooooh, damn. You are right, you are literally like, the polar opposite of me when it comes to brain things. I don't, nor the complication, wants to sacrifice themselves. Well, there's one in the complication plurality that is fine with the idea of sacrificing themselves - but only to the complication and not to me lol.

So your system is basically a bunch of selfless (not selfish) things, plurals, components? Selfless in both respects - not wanting one to sacrifice for them, but also willing to sacrifice themselves.

Maybe, but who knows. Toska is still quite unpredictable, and is intentionally secretive. What I know, is what I've observed, and what he's chosen to disclose. I don't mind saying his name here, I don't imagine anyone is just going to check through 50+ comments to look for his name lol.

Just like how I casually just mentioned the name of my current complication, "Svaernaaeg". They don't want to associate with this account at all, but they've been lackluster due to the sheer amount of comments here. Of course, they've been considering opening up about their association to me, to try to come clean.

The self-aware ego-like volitional structures are. The other components are kinda self-invariant and kinda just wanna perform their tasks and follow protocol. E.g., the part of my mind that translates these weird squiggly curves into letters -> phonemes -> words has no ego and is equally available to all egos that have use of it. Architecturally, it's kinda like having a few different operating systems (egos), but they run on the same hardware and have pretty much identical drivers (unless they manually diverge from that, but that takes a lot of effort for dubious gain).

I'm fine with "intentionally secretive"; objecting there would be highly hypocritical of me.

As for the "complication", a quick search brought up a year-old Reddit comment with the Discord handle "Svaernaaeg#0598", the same "Monteveido" FA account that left a "?" shout on "Jan 17, 2021 02:51 PM", and a Reddit post from a month and a half prior that includes this: "However, only me, Leudabavaengei, the Neural Leader, and Hangckai are quite commonly active. The Neural Leader doesn't communicate through our account, but rather a different one.".

Due to how sides are drawn, I'll avoid interacting with them unless you clearly say otherwise or they subvert the separation between you two having separate accounts. BTW, they keep saying "Grandescha"; do you know what that means?

The self-aware ego-like volitional structures are. The other components are kinda self-invariant and kinda just wanna perform their tasks and follow protocol. E.g., the part of my mind that translates these weird squiggly curves into letters -> phonemes -> words has no ego and is equally available to all egos that have use of it. Architecturally, it's kinda like having a few different operating systems (egos), but they run on the same hardware and have pretty much identical drivers (unless they manually diverge from that, but that takes a lot of effort for dubious gain).

Ooooh no wonder you took interest in Fun-Fear. Fun-Fear developed a similar system themselves - that my complications continue to use and adapt upon. Although, my newest complication went ahead with destroying a lot of them, and then remaking them, to rid my brain of Fun-Fearian stuff.
They have one for name generation, one for simulations (hallucinogenic or self-capable structures of thought or stimuli - a broad term for a larger range of things), and one for manipulation detection, for example. They probably have more, that I've forgotten or haven't considered due to how mainstream they've gotten. Though, they don't really have a name for them, beyond "neural mechanism" or "self-capable simulation".

By intentionally secretive - like uncomfortably and extremely secretive. It's why I object to it. I went into detail about it in one of the replies I gave to you lol.


That's him, and them, the newest complication, Svaernaaeg, of the system, "Traefaeger Republic".
The reddit post was before they got PluralKit (so I couldn't effectively communicate in their server) - and they acknowledged that I owned two prior accounts - this one and the Enderix one. I destroyed Hangckai around June of 2021, but Leudabavaengei is a thorn in my butt.
They decided to re-use Monteveido's account after I destroyed Monteveido on September 21st of 2020 - like how Orutombro (a prior complication to Monteveido) did with Enderix's account.


Fair fair. I both care and don't care if you do, I dunno. My "don't care" might be influenced by their interest in wanting to talk with you.

LMAOOOO "Grandescha". It's a (conlang) derivative of Fun-Fear's "Grand". It's basically their own version of "Welcome", "Hello", "Good Will". Anything they know and understand, is what I know and understand, so I'll more than likely understand it.

they don't really have a name for them, beyond "neural mechanism" or "self-capable simulation".

I think "servitor" is a somewhat common term for such automated-but-not-autonomous mental structures.

By intentionally secretive - like uncomfortably and extremely secretive. It's why I object to it. I went into detail about it in one of the replies I gave to you lol.

Ah, best to keep that thread focused there. Tho I still think it would be hypocritical of me to object to *o***'s discretion here.

Fair fair. I both care and don't care if you do, I dunno. My "don't care" might be influenced by their interest in wanting to talk with you.

Yeah, that sort of nebulous influence, combined with *o***'s involvement is why we're going to try only interacting with you and whichever headmates you want us to. Also, to the extent that advocating for your "complication" is good, it'll be more effective to do so from a perspective that's tuned to yours and not theirs.

It's a (conlang) derivative of Fun-Fear's "Grand".

Ah, thanks for the explanation! That makes sense as a sorta vague exclamation, just wanted to be sure.

I think "servitor" is a somewhat common term for such automated-but-not-autonomous mental structures.

Can't argue with that, makes enough sense for me. Though, they'll prob just keep calling them mechanisms. As "servitor" gives the impression that they are a conscious mechanism - when in reality it's just like feeding an automated excel sheet some information and waiting for a calculated or random result as a result of it.



Ah, best to keep that thread focused there. Tho I still think it would be hypocritical of me to object to *o***'s discretion here.

Yeah, I'll keep it there. Meh, I adapted further on why I object against. Did not have a good choice of words lol.



Yeah, that sort of nebulous influence, combined with *o***'s involvement is why we're going to try only interacting with you and whichever headmates you want us to. Also, to the extent that advocating for your "complication" is good, it'll be more effective to do so from a perspective that's tuned to yours and not theirs.

Yeah. And, on the basis of my personal want, I wouldn't want you interacting with any of 'em, but I'm not gonna stop ya. Mhmm.



Ah, thanks for the explanation! That makes sense as a sorta vague exclamation, just wanted to be sure.

No prob. Yeah it's quite whack honestly lmao.

Also they want to interact with you now because you talked about being plural. My complication, damn.

Well, I'm gonna try not to interact with them anyway. I mean, I'm checking their profiles for useful information about your system … but it'll take something drastic for them to get me/us to talk to them without you, Neural Leader approving the interaction. The adversarial relationship is unfortunate, but you deserve the right to talk to people without headmates interrupting, so I'm going to do what I can to emulate that level of privacy.

Looool. They don't talk much about their system on their FA, it's not something people ask about - so they haven't considered it important enough. The most descriptive it gets is their extremely outdated plural journal from 2020 December, their profile information, and a recent journal they posted showcasing new drawings of their plural selves.
You can only really information mine from their discord - which basically has EVERYTHING.


Fair fair. It's unfortunate yeah. I prefer being singular and solely myself. And fair fair again.

I think I've gathered enough information on the overall pattern of volitional construct emergence, war, destruction, and rebuilding. The exact details are different, but to you it's pretty much a continuation of the decade of FF, right?

Fair fair. I want to say that it is exactly, but it really is more like if Fun-Fear decided to go hippie. But it still pretty much is a continuation regardless, yes.

I'll try to get to the other few replies within the next day, but I just wanted to say here that "if Fun-Fear decided to go hippie" is a hilarious image! Like, imagine "the Dude" Lebowski, a chill guy who abides everyone and everything except "nihilistic Nazis" and … he's ex-fascist!

… It sounds to me like you could potentially develop an equitable "frenemy" relationship that keeps your depression at bay and leaves you enough hours to yourself that you have more effective self-actualization volition than you did prior to and during the whole FF saga, and without internalizing unwanted drives. I know you're probably gonna try for becoming singlet, but this is the sort of arrangement that any singlet proposal will have to beat.

But yeah I am that Neural Leader dude - may as well mentioned that while I'm here, Leuds just checking out this area cause interested

Alright, first Fun-Fear's naïveté: Its plans read like a kid who thinks they can one day rule the world. The "encryption" is at best mangled words that constitute another language that necessarily has extreme influences from and similarities to English. It's enough to throw off casual snoopers, and it may have been essential to your internal warfare, but it's nothing like actual mathematically secure cryptography. That naïveté (along with the big pile of "yikes" that you've already explicitly deconstructed) is probably why soatok2 (who's left your shout up 3+ years) didn't reply to Fun-Fear.

Yeah, Fun-Fear didn't really mature much from when it came into existence. It just grew in intellectual capability. Like giving a 10 year old the memories and knowledge of a 40 year old. Fun-Fear came about when I was about 11 - so it maintained that level of maturity that I had back then. Fun-Fear was also heavily against anything that wasn't vore with a canine predator - and was ideologically genocidal against anything that wasn't. They wanted to make birds, amphibians, reptiles, extinct - focus on reptiles first.

Mhmm, it's not too complicated once you understand it. They sometimes throw red herrings into it, but other than that, you're right, it's English that's phonetically modified with the concept of another language - such as German or Russian. Wasn't essential to internal warfare because I could understand it - it was essential to external warfare though - because you couldn't get a casual individual to understand it.

Oooh, did you find Fun-Fear through soatok2? Loooool. Fun-Fear had a focus in mind that I don't think I've mentioned here. Fun-Fear wanted to recreate itself digitally - so that it could control all devices. So, it followed and tried to interact with furry programmers - a plus if they were into vore (like soatok2 lol). Thus, Fun-Fear took interest in a furry helping them with programming an AI replica of themselves.

I'm not much a spiritual individual, so I'd opt for "alter" or "tulpa" - especially considering the hypothesis' I've made. The farthest I go towards insanity, is that it was possibly an interdimensional parasite lmao

Before the newest complication caused by Toska, that is exactly how they termed themselves - something similar to "Mental Software". Now'a'days, they familiarize themselves with plurality - because you can't exactly get away with saying you're an AI inside a human brain lmao - it's self dehumanizing. Fun-Fear had a lot of difficulty with furries - because they would question this - and then get mad - furious at it.

And yeah that's fair, the concept of neurally-encoded collection of connections in the brain. It makes sense - and pretty much relates to their and my thought processes on the situation.

It's a fair presumption I guess, but I choose to comfortably assert the 1 brain = 1 self concept. Even though I acknowledge that consciousness itself - only exists - because it is a sum of certain regions of the brain - operating with one another in harmony and cooperation. Much like how a computer's harddrive (as well as RAM, etc etc) acts as a calculating whole. But, like with both, if a portion of them gets damaged - the overall sum result - changes. Take a chunk of the frontal lobe - you lose dignity, delete software responsible for visuals or visual drivers - and your computer won't show up anything. Both still work, but are dramatically changed. The same concept was applied by Fun-Fear and myself - and why neither of us believe in the idea of a "soul".



I'd argue hardware would be the individual neurons themselves - as well as the "peripheral devices" - your eyes, ears, mouth, etc. Anything you cannot change mentally - would not be hardware - but rather a locked software - like how newer Windows operating systems prevent you from deleting their built-in app folders (pointless and annoying adware). I'd argue that Fun-Fear was capable of modifying this "locked software", considering how I maintained a lot of subconsciously Fun-Fearian thoughts and activities well after its end - and another reason to why I still deal with complications to this day.

On the concept of connections - and their data going away - I'd like to argue that you can ruin or modify a computer with a phone. Connect a USB, a wire, into it, and if the computer gives the OK, you could delete, add, or modify the computer's files, from your phone. But then I presume this is what you've considered - and rather what you're referring to - is the memory, the persistent data that still stays around - despite the rewiring. Which is true, and the complication I deal with now, considered the concept of re-creating Fun-Fear with this. Not to try to over-rule me with it - they hate Fun-Fear too - but to learn how it behaves - what it does - and what it can learn from it in general. They sort-of did it with a side complication that I had dealt with during their time - recreating half of it, for a new "alter" (tulpa really). Does it behave like that prior complication? No not really, but it maintains some of its qualities.


Hmm, the concept of it having to be a significant necessity... You're not wrong, usually a lot of social and other forms of backlash, had to occur, before I could mop them up. There's been a few complications post-Fun-Fear that had a similar end, and Fun-Fear had ceased to similar situations. It just took a lot more to get rid of Fun-Fear - because it had developed a huge base. It took a LOT OF THINGS to take down Fun-Fear, furries hating on it, myself fighting it, and Fun-Fear cloning itself - for its clone to then attack it.

Fun-Fear fed off of my weakness and poor environment - but when I eventually started solely going after it, it started to deteriorate. This is a primary reason to why Fun-Fear was hard to get rid of - as I mention with its "developed base" - it had a time of peace and tranquility (neurologically) - to rapidly develop - and a necessity for purpose. Using every single opportunity it had, to grow off of me and my environment. It grew fast from December 2013 to July 2016 - a 2 year and a half length. So that when I finally went to war with it, it was really difficult, because it basically owned me. I still, to this day, question just how I managed to come on top - because it was such a luck-based scenario.

I choose to comfortably assert the 1 brain = 1 self concept. Even though I acknowledge that consciousness itself - only exists - because it is a sum of certain regions of the brain - operating with one another in harmony and cooperation. Much like how a computer's harddrive (as well as RAM, etc etc) acts as a calculating whole. But, like with both, if a portion of them gets damaged - the overall sum result - changes. Take a chunk of the frontal lobe - you lose dignity, delete software responsible for visuals or visual drivers - and your computer won't show up anything. Both still work, but are dramatically changed. The same concept was applied by Fun-Fear and myself - and why neither of us believe in the idea of a "soul".

Both brain and computer hardware are more flexible than that.… On modern computers, a hard drive is itself a small computer with its own realtime operating system to manage exact translation of externally presented "sectors" into physical locations within the drive. Sometimes it can even be reprogrammed, for near arbitrary functions. It's similar for other components, infamously networking hardware on phones. That's before even touching on redundant architecture like is used for finance and aviation.… As for brains, they're practically made of architectural redundancy, which is why stroke survivors often regain some form lost functionality in the years after. For children, it's even more capable of drastic rewiring; I recall reading about the case of a young girl who had some sort of severe brain damage that required removing almost an entire hemisphere, and she turned out developmentally normal. Mostly agreed on souls. By the time the concept is examined enough to make a clear determination, it's clear that the number of (human) souls can range from zero to damn near any arbitrary number, depending on exactly what counts.

But then I presume this is what you've considered - and rather what you're referring to - is the memory, the persistent data that still stays around - despite the rewiring. Which is true, and the complication I deal with now, considered the concept of re-creating Fun-Fear with this. Not to try to over-rule me with it - they hate Fun-Fear too - but to learn how it behaves - what it does - and what it can learn from it in general. They sort-of did it with a side complication that I had dealt with during their time - recreating half of it, for a new "alter" (tulpa really). Does it behave like that prior complication? No not really, but it maintains some of its qualities.

Yeah, the information is still there. I'm glad you've managed to rearrange it in a better way! As for labels, the only fundamental difference between an alter and a tulpa (and even a "host" ego) is history, and that's malleable in the same way that a new corporation can buy an older defunct corp and then claim a history that goes back to the old one's founding. Mindspace is kinda arbitrary like that.

Both brain and computer hardware are more flexible than that.… On modern computers, a hard drive is itself a small computer with its own realtime operating system to manage exact translation of externally presented "sectors" into physical locations within the drive. Sometimes it can even be reprogrammed, for near arbitrary functions. It's similar for other components, infamously networking hardware on phones. That's before even touching on redundant architecture like is used for finance and aviation.… As for brains, they're practically made of architectural redundancy, which is why stroke survivors often regain some form lost functionality in the years after. For children, it's even more capable of drastic rewiring; I recall reading about the case of a young girl who had some sort of severe brain damage that required removing almost an entire hemisphere, and she turned out developmentally normal. Mostly agreed on souls. By the time the concept is examined enough to make a clear determination, it's clear that the number of (human) souls can range from zero to damn near any arbitrary number, depending on exactly what counts.

Fair point, they are extremely flexible - and cover for a lot of redundancy - both do. Should've structured my argument better, but I was referring more to a permanent and more significant amount - something that would be hard to recover from - like an entire structure or a majority of it (frontal lobe for my example). Although I didn't hint to it in my argument, I was referring to more those of older age when it comes to significant brain damage - as young kids are freaking beasts when it comes to recovery and functionality - as you mentioned yourself - that young girl who came out developmentally normal without half a hemisphere.

Oooh, agreed as in, don't believe in it? I don't believe in it yeah. Oh for real? From zero to any feasible number? Aint scientology a belief that correlates similarly to souls - albeit very weirdly?



Yeah, the information is still there. I'm glad you've managed to rearrange it in a better way! As for labels, the only fundamental difference between an alter and a tulpa (and even a "host" ego) is history, and that's malleable in the same way that a new corporation can buy an older defunct corp and then claim a history that goes back to the old one's founding. Mindspace is kinda arbitrary like that.

Ooooh and no problem looooool. Yeah that's fair, a tulpa is created by a sentient being - sentient in the sense of being a forwardly conscious and self-thinking personality, while an alter is a product of the brain itself - and not the "personality". Yeah.

Agreed as in there's no perfectly coherent concept that the "soul" refers to. It may be tricky to get arbitrary numbers, but it's definitely easy to argue for zero, one, two, and several values of "many" souls.…

- Zero: The whole concept falls apart under scrutiny, so how can it exist?
- One: The "soul" is the more universal driving force behind everything, so there's one soul shared by all existence.
- Two: "self" vs "world", "male" vs "female", or any other nominally polarizing duality.
- Many, but fewer than the number of human bodies: There are only so many fundamental volitional core arrangements possible, so two mind-body systems with the same fundamental structure are of the same "soul", even if they have drastically different experiences and never interact.
- One per human body: Default societal assumption.
- More than one per body: Even without plurality, examining how people change over time supports the view that, e.g., me-at-age-5 is a different person/soul than me-at-age-25. Taken to an extreme, every moment's exact consciousness is a different soul. But this is about where the concept starts to crumble and loop back to zero souls. :D

I can't speak for scientology, only my personal views.

I see I see. Although I don't believe in it, both me and my complication took interest in the philosophical debate of a "one soul" concept. Never considered it was "one soul" until you mentioned it, "The Egg" by Andy Weir. It's honestly a cool idea, but to me and my complication, it doesn't explain it all.

Yeah on the many but not the same number of human bodies - maybe they refer to gingers LOOOOL.

Yeah it's pretty weird honestly and leaves many holes in understanding. And, where would your soul go after death? Would you still experience the world - or how would you experience the world as purely a soul? Are you as the physical self - consciously different from the soul?
Not to mention all the religions that have animals with souls.



I dunno, I just heard that scientology believes in the idea that some alien race got killed on Earth, and that we are the souls of these aliens - 14 billion of them or something? And that once we hit 14 billion population, people won't be able to have babies anymore because there wouldn't be any souls left lol.

Andy Weir's "The Egg" is a very beautiful story, with at least as much truth as any religious text I've encountered.

Who says souls have to keep existing beyond a transient moment of consciousness? Personally, I believe that this reality is inherently ambiguous as to any possible afterlife. So, metaphysically, my "truth core" assumption is that all coherent possibilities are valid (coherence disqualifying most mainstream religious views, at least if they're at all literal) and thus my currently ambiguous experience stream will branch into mutually inaccessible experience streams respectively following each coherent possibility.

I thought that the goal of Scientology was to remove the "Thetan" (?) influence on one's soul. Idk, 14 billion sounds kinda high given resource constraints.

Agreed, very beautiful, with as much truth and collective structure as any religious text I've encountered also, yeah.

True, nothing ever states just how long a soul lasts. Although, that pretty much denies heaven and hell if they dissipate shortly after death lol. Which, on heaven and hell, it reminds me of when I was a kid, when I was a little more on the religious side, and, I considered the concept of a heaven for heaven, or a heaven for that heaven, and so on. I thought it was an interesting thought experiment - dying in heaven to be put in heaven's heaven. I think other people have probably thought of it way before me though, it seems like a pretty obvious thing to think about - and I may have come across someone who did when I was younger - to which influenced - or I might've actually thought of it myself independently. Who knows.

Fair fair. My take on death, is that it's just emptiness. You wouldn't know if you were dead - because you wouldn't be able to think or perceive. Like how a computer, without charge, cannot compute. Or like how an industrial train engine or car - cannot move without fuel. With the absence of activity - there is absence of oneself. Except, unlike a computer or industrial engine, you cannot zap human consciousness back into life - not easily anyways.


Honestly, not even sure. I just came across a Facebook video that said something along the lines of "is Scientology stupid?", but in reality it was a faux video supporting Scientology. Watched it for like 4 to 6 minutes before going "boring" and looking at other posts.

I considered the concept of a heaven for heaven, or a heaven for that heaven, and so on. I thought it was an interesting thought experiment - dying in heaven to be put in heaven's heaven.

Huh, I'd never thought about that. My understanding is that a typical "heaven" is meant to be final (as in, everyone's afterlife is immortal) or preceding some sort of reincarnation. If there's a "heaven's heaven", then shouldn't there also be a "heaven's hell" for people who were good in their first life, but bad in their first afterlife? There should also be a "hell's hell" and "hell's heaven", and so on. But that's only binary, and we know/assume that Earth isn't either a heaven or a hell, so we also need an intermediate "purgatory". Thus the complete list of second-level afterlives would be: "heaven's heaven", "heaven's purgatory", "heaven's hell", "purgatory's heaven", "purgatory's purgatory", "purgatory's hell", "hell's heaven", "hell's purgatory", and "hell's hell". Beyond that, it gets exponentially more complicated. I think that the closest mainstream religious view would be reincarnation into better and worse worlds and births within a world. So instead of infinitely recursive layers, it'd be more of a linear thing going up and down depending on how one lived their preceding life/lives. Idk, I'm kinda just rambling.

Yeah, I expect emptiness for most futures from my death. But "I" won't experience those personally empty futures, so the only futures that directly personally matter to me are the rare exceptions. It's similar to how I don't exist in most worlds, but this exception is thus far more personally important.

I just came across a Facebook video that said something along the lines of "is Scientology stupid?", but in reality it was a faux video supporting Scientology.

Yeah, that church is extremely proficient at persuasion tactics. I doubt they'd have their tax exemption without having taken some special measures.

I'd disagree on a heaven's hell. Little kid me considered (I think at the time), that you'd just go back. Kind of like how you would in a game - such as "Getting Over It With Bennett Foddy".
And yeah, it was more like a fun thought experiment I think at the time. I might've considered it seriously once or twice when I was younger, but it was mostly just a fun thought experiment from what I can gather. I never considered anything beyond a hell, considering it painful enough lmao. And anyways, what could you do in a place that supposedly prevents, restricts you from doing things and tortures you, that'd warrant you going further? It seems like quite the stop for me. While in heaven, you are supposedly free to do what you want, while still being able to communicate to family, which is still open to the issues of the real world - and where you could possibly be punished or revered for your actions within it.
To go back on the game level idea, you could consider hell to be -1, Earth to be 0, and any heaven after, to be 1 and so on. You can't go any lower than -1, supposedly, but can go higher than 0 and 1.

And yeah yeah, that might be the closest thing.


I was about to stupidly say "Doctor Strange" moment (even though I haven't watched anything relating to him beyond memes and some clips), but I just realized, you're talking about like, quantum mechanics, shrodinger's cat, right?



Lmaooo, I can see why people hate 'em. Prob prob

> I was about to stupidly say "Doctor Strange" moment (even though I haven't watched anything relating to him beyond memes and some clips), but I just realized, you're talking about like, quantum mechanics, shrodinger's cat, right?

Sorta kinda, but on a more metaphysical level.

Anyway, unless you have more to say here, I think we can call this side thread (out of ~11 now?‽) complete.

Huh, more metaphysical?

I mean, guess we could, unless you wanna elaborate on the metaphysical stuff. Don't have to, but I am sort of curious.

Thus Fun-Fear was a dysfunctional ego-like neural pattern that tried to take over and ended up failing catastrophically. It may or may not have qualified for dissociative identity disorder (DID) or similar (IIRC, dysfunction is more important to such diagnoses than memory isolation / amnesia) but it was definitely a distinct manic personality that tried to consolidate all power under its rule.

Mhmm, a dysfunctional ego-like neural pattern that tried to take over and consolidate power. It almost did, admittedly, it talked about controlling my subconscious - and talking about having invaded and conquered it. Which, seems believable, especially judging by how my brain behaved post-Fun-Fear and currently - compared to before Fun-Fear. That August situation was basically any man's race - as both I and it were on our last legs - but I guess I just had the better set of legs during that time. It knew that around May of 2019, that it probably wouldn't win, and tried its best to make it certain that I would suffer eternally after its cease - which, almost 3 years later (woo, August 2022), I still am. I still have yet to fully recover from the brutal conflict.
Oh for real? I had thought the memory isolation and amnesia were the more critical bits for its definition. Meh, this new complication suggests it's some form of OSDD - uncertain to which - but a certain type - which is basically just a list of DID variations.



As for personal interest, that's kinda like the neural pattern that was imposed on me as a child. When I was figuring things out for myself, seeing that unhappy dysfunction resulted in a note the other decade that "my past self regrets itself" (several past selves ago). I (/ we…) also had an ego-like structure attempt something similar, on a smaller scale that doesn't involve brain-hopping. It lasted maybe 72 hours, which is ironically even less time than some intentionally-transient ego-bootstrap selves have lasted.

Oooh, you're plural? And ah I see I see. You basically had your own version of Walmart 1940s Mr. Mustache man lol. Fun-Fear actually took interest in the No-No Germans and the Soviets in WW2 - taking note of their dictatorial activities - and why they enjoyed phonetically modifying their language to German or Russian. They didn't support their causes of course - but branded their own cause - off of theirs.

Oh crud, brain-hopping? Like, system-hopping? The complication I had, took interest in it, and, had 50/50 success with it. Half of it would work, half of it wouldn't work - it was so strange. And, most bias' were ruled out as well - beyond extremely accurate intuition - which I doubt was the case. I - and this complication - are still not sure how it all exactly worked out. It was strange as hell.

O damn, 3 days. The complications that I dealt with, including Fun-Fear, except the newest, utilized a similar neuro-militarized approach to one another, that I was able to deconstruct in 2 to 3 months time minimum with the others. Fun-Fear was just a special case because it had the resources - while the others didn't.

Oooh, you're plural?

The total ego-like structure currently seems to add up to less than a complete person. But yes, it's partitioned between multiple semi-independent structures. (It's Complicated™.)

Oh crud, brain-hopping? Like, system-hopping?

I know it's unrealistic (maybe doable with brain scan tech in a couple decades, but certainly not today), but isn't that part of what Fun-Fear was trying to do?

Ah I see I see. The "partition between multiple semi-independent structures" reminds me of what Fun-Fear was before it cracked down and became centralized. The Fun-Fear here, was the centralized one, but before then, Fun-Fear was a "group that acted as a whole". It only centralized because of less than ideal members and me infiltrating it with created plural things - like tulpas but Walmart edition I guess. Espionage I committed to :shrug:
lmao "it's complicated™"



I dunno if it's unrealistic or realistic honestly. The "complication" I'm currently dealing with, committed to doing it with some pluralities they met - shortly after their discovery of plurality. In most cases, it was a 50/50 - of where it worked or didn't - and using my methodology - ruled out most bias' beyond complete accurate prediction - or failure of the other party to explain. So I'm completely flabbergasted by it, as I had thought it'd be impossible - and maybe it is, I dunno.
Of course, there is so much that would prove it's unrealistic (such as time, the laws of the universe, speed of things, etc), but I'm confused to the success that the "complication" at hand, had.

Fun-Fear was trying something like it, ish, yeah. It was more like an adaptation of it. Fun-Fear wanted to establish a global telepathic system - built in similarity to how the internet was established - except that it would be centralized and under control by Fun-Fear. One large server owned by Fun-Fear, that any proposed sentient being could connect to, telepathically. That's what Fun-Fear was trying to achieve, as well as trying to see if it could edit the brains of anyone connected. Creating a false sense of "free will".

"The "complication" I'm currently dealing with, committed to doing it with some pluralities they met - shortly after their discovery of plurality. In most cases, it was a 50/50 - of where it worked or didn't"

There's no doubt that it's possible to replicate a similar mental structure in those who are open and susceptible to it -- just look at all the "pony hypnosis" tulpas of some years back! But … it's at best a biological-precision copy, heavily limited by bandwidth. For example, several people have an ethics core similar to this system's, to the point where one core is interchangeable with another; but the overall personalities and decades of accumulated experience are not so simply shared. So, I could potentially impress "act like karma's real" upon several people, but I informationally can't elaborate that to a complete list of ethical rulings despite the core source itself being very small and communicable.

If your experience disagrees, then please elaborate! I'm sure at least one of us will learn something new in the discussion. :)

Lmao what? "Pony hypnosis tulpas"? What on Earth? Damn.
Ooh, biological-precision copy as in, only as limited as the understanding of the creature at hand? Fun-Fear and future pluralities, when trying to emulate creatures - acknowledged this, and never considered their creations to be true representations of their species' - unless it was a custom one. Hell, the "complication" at hand, who has become therian much to my dismay, recognizes that it isn't accurately the species it represents - and never will be - and thus goes for a custom species of that species to evade that concept. Oh well, it also prevents them from ever considering bestiality, so phew - as they want to anyways avoid.

Oh yeah the memories and the stuff aren't so easily shared. I noticed that too, and so did the "complication" obviously. Every time the "complication" committed to system hopping thing, they would try to see if they could "ping" (issue a request to locate material) descriptions and memories of whatever thing they were interacting with, well, for the most part... And their whole "ping" mechanism is meant to return either a "yes" or "no", but when they did that "pinging" during a system hop, it returned an empty, null value, a "void value" as they called it. Neither "yes" or "no", but not both, maybe both, idk. The most they could get, was anything that was happening at the time, anything that the "plural" that they system hopped to, decided to say or do - or elements of their "system headspace".

Nope, judging by how I interpreted your word, my experience with this "complication" doing system hopping, basically checks out. I don't fully understand what you mean by "core", but I think I get it.

Unrelated to the main topic but, funny enough, every system that they permitted to system hop to themselves - which was 2 and a half (a half being because it came, but didn't interact much), were always able to modify elements of the headspace that the "complication" provided. They had intended on their headspace to be malleable and easy to change - as they don't have one single static one for themselves - rather they interact within an "emptiness" that can become something when they want to do something. Like turning on and off a game or television whenever they want - except that they exist within this game or television (with the capability of 4th wall'ing) instead of being outside of it.

Yeah, apparently MLP hypnosis audio files were in vogue some years back, and frequently resulted in naïve tulpa formation. It's enough of a phenomenon that I've seen experienced people in multiple "tulpamancy" communities mention it.

Yeah, biology tends to have poor precision, to the point where thorough testing would reveal several genetically distinct cell lines within a typical mammal.

I don't get why you're mentioning bestiality. The applicable "Harkness test" (any sexual partner must: be adult, have human+ intelligence, and clearly communicate consent) isn't species specific, so the ethical line remains between, e.g., (fictional) intelligent speaking dogs and (actual, real-life) unintelligent dogs, regardless of precise therian identity of the "complication". Also, in terms of intra-system ethics, I expect most people familiar with plurality to agree with me on this: You have the right to veto any and all sexual activity that would involve you or your body. Full stop. So even trying to violate that boundary would be a fast way for the "complication" to lose favor in the community.

Sounds like the "system hop" was mostly just copying core personality / volition. It's kinda like how several computers can run "the same" browser, but all the tabs, settings, add-ons, and such are different between installs.

Alright, I guess we've reached understanding of definitions and semantics without exchanging new concepts. By "core" I mean a minimal stable part that everything else is (re)built around and on top of. It's somewhat deeper than personality, and also impersonal. For reference, my system's other two cores can be labeled as "truth" (an idea filter that permits everything self-coherent but acknowledges a vast plurality of possibilities and that knowledge can at best be probabilistic with high certainty) and "power" (poorly integrated / developed … but basically saying to do whatever improves my situation and capabilities as long as it doesn't interfere with "truth" or "ethics" cores).

I don't get why you're mentioning bestiality. The applicable "Harkness test" (any sexual partner must: be adult, have human+ intelligence, and clearly communicate consent) isn't species specific, so the ethical line remains between, e.g., (fictional) intelligent speaking dogs and (actual, real-life) unintelligent dogs, regardless of precise therian identity of the "complication". Also, in terms of intra-system ethics, I expect most people familiar with plurality to agree with me on this: You have the right to veto any and all sexual activity that would involve you or your body. Full stop. So even trying to violate that boundary would be a fast way for the "complication" to lose favor in the community.

I'll reply to the rest later, but I wanted to reply this is real quick before I go...
Noooo not the Harkness test loooool. I learned of that when my current complication found a piece on a Shiba Inu that could talk and had glasses - who was probably sexually interested in a human man - and the man was themselves. The Harkness test makes enough sense, but I usually refer to instances where the Harkness test isn't applicable.

Confused by what you said. But, I stated it because I don't want my brain parasites having sexual interest in animals - nor did they ever really. Bestiality and zoophilia is something I want to avoid 100% - and they have come to that conclusion themselves as well. So, rather, they identify with anthropomorphic selves and some have sexual interests in anthropomorphic characters.



Lmaoooo I've had people talk about that, the whole right to veto. This is one reason why my complication doesn't want me talking in their plural servers, and also why they don't want to talk about me. They don't want this issue - that plurals that they've invited to their server - have mentioned.

So rather, they're trying to make me more used to it so that I don't mind it, or they use the fact that I want to destroy them as empathetic weight for their interests.

What do you mean "instances where the Harkness test isn't applicable"? The Harkness test applies to literally every potential sexual encounter. It's just that certain potential partners either pass or fail the test.

Regardless, it's fine to avoid such attractions for any or no reason.

Hmm. I bet that said right to veto would be a pretty useful thing to bring up if they try talking to me beyond whatever parameters you decide. I know it's kinda unfair in a way to pick sides like this, but given my interactions with *o*** and their interactions with your adversarial headmates, it seems most balanced for me to let you limit how much I interact with them, at least for now.

Also, you probably shouldn't straight up destroy them.

Sorry, just me failing at English again. I meant as in, it doesn't produce a positive result for sex - not that you cannot use the process.

Yeah exactly. Ewwwwww


It would be sort-of, yeah ish. It makes it awkward for them. Fair fair.


Aww why not. I wanna destroy them. They have no use to me, or interest from me. They keep trying to create purpose for themselves - and even me, but I reject it. I've been capable of destroying some of them in the past anyways - and it's how I dealt with past complications. This one is just a hard roach to kill.

f17622: Also, you probably shouldn't straight up destroy them.

Damotrix: Aww why not. I wanna destroy them. They have no use to me, or interest from me. They keep trying to create purpose for themselves - and even me, but I reject it. I've been capable of destroying some of them in the past anyways - and it's how I dealt with past complications. This one is just a hard roach to kill.

Well, I can try arguing from my actual motive, which is that it's insufficiently justified destruction of self-aware existence. But I don't think there's any way I could convince you that your motives lack justification, especially after your decade of dealing with FF in your own personalized hell.

Instead, I'd like to examine your goals and logistics of various ways to approach said goals. If I'm right, then you'll have to figure out a compromise, but it's probably gonna be much more harmonious than your current situation. If I'm wrong, then you'll have a directly actionable means of becoming singlet. And yes, I know this is probably unfair in all sorts of ways and I expect "both sides" of your system, and that your hostile headmates' friends of *o*** et al would also object. Hell, there's plenty of objection even within my own system, but we're attempting this because it seems like the least-bad intervention where an intervention is needed.

So, are you, Neural Leader, willing to examine in detail what exactly it would take to destroy Svaernaaeg et al, along with all the likely side effects and repercussions? (I'll try to keep in mind that Svaernaaeg et al are sure to pay close attention and quite likely interfere, as I'm sure you expect of them.)

I wanted to reply to this one before all the others cause it's one I'm pretty passionate about.

Yeah, it's probably very unlikely you'd be able to convince me otherwise. I think it's very much justified, and I don't recognize them as things that deserve respect equivalent to the human race. But I'll listen.

Damn. Just don't fight one another over it. Last thing I need is to cause a World War in a system over my situation.

Uhhh, yeah sure. Also, today I learned what "et al" is, cool. I'd always say "and co", but "et al" is shorter.
Anyways, likely side effects would be depression, but also freedom for myself finally. It is in their belief and my own - that they have hunted down and destroyed most of Fun-Fearian mechanisms - so that if I got rid of them, that it would be the "war to end all wars" equivalent of Fun-Fearian spawn - no more Fun-Fearian mechanisms to deal with. I can take note of the period of time between Orutombro and Mont - a whole month - as proof of this, to an extent. I think I got depressed, but definitely felt freer and more in control.
Repercussions would be anyone that leans on my complication - collateral damage. Although, I don't plan to make the same mistake as I did with the end of Fun-Fear, I won't go around trying to tell everyone in specific, about it, I'll just make a journal, and maybe check from time to time. Trying to tell everyone that interacted with Fun-Fear, ended up having like half of them pissed at me thinking I either faked it, or angry at me that I wasn't into vore.

What it would take, is a lot of social pressure, I think. They've developed themselves to prepare for a situation like this - where the war gets really hot, and have prepared for almost all forms of conflict that I have utilized prior or have considered utilizing. So, actually, I'm not entirely sure of what it would take - especially considering they would go on the defensive - a stable point. As, they've considered all previous systems went on the offensive - which always failed, so they went on the defensive instead, after securing a proper stable point against me within a month or two. Slow development, but it's stable.

And ye' ye'.

Notation note: I'm now using Markdown-style leading ">" to indicate 'paragraph' quotes (and ">>" for quoting myself, as if you'd originally quoted me with ">"). Hopefully it's got a better combination of readability and writeability than "quote marks" or italics.

> Yeah, it's probably very unlikely you'd be able to convince me otherwise. I think it's very much justified, and I don't recognize them as things that deserve respect equivalent to the human race.

I/we see no fundamental ethical weight difference between self-aware volitional structures within a system, only degree of development. So our overall goal wrt your system is to encourage the least destructive stabilization, regardless of who that ends up favoring. It's ultimately a dispassionate calculation / evaluation, kinda like "the only ethical action is the minimization of entropy" https://www.furaffinity.net/view/38051862/ (SFW, no ***e or whatever).

> But I'll listen.

Hopefully I'll end up doing most of the listening. I barely have an overview of the history and structure of your system, so you'll have to provide most of the details. Also, for inherently introspective things like this, a question-based format is meant to be more effective for both teaching and persuasion. I'll try not to take it so far that you want me to drink hemlock tea, but it's basically the Socratic method. But I can't help but form opinions on nearly everything, so I'll likely deviate significantly from my intended method.

> Damn. Just don't fight one another over it. Last thing I need is to cause a World War in a system over my situation.

Don't worry about that! Conscious disagreement / resistance in this system is resolved by more closely examining the situation to determine what best aligns with the shared cores, and adding safeguard 'triggers' to reevaluate if it gets too close to the line. It's the unconscious part that's often problematic.

> Anyways, likely side effects [of eliminating opposing factions] would be depression, but also freedom for myself finally. […] if I got rid of them, that it would be the "war to end all wars" equivalent of Fun-Fearian spawn […]. I can take note of the period of time between Orutombro and Mont - a whole month - as proof of this, to an extent. I think I got depressed, but definitely felt freer and more in control.

I was expecting a different path, but let's examine this one. The logistical problem is: What happens next? Specifically, what will you do to convince your neurons / subconscious not to generate yet another opposition to get out of the expected depressive state? After all, isn't fighting depression the entire reason past-you made the original Fun-Fear all those years ago?

> Repercussions would be anyone that leans on my complication - collateral damage. Although, I don't plan to make the same mistake as I did with the end of Fun-Fear, I won't go around trying to tell everyone in specific, about it, I'll just make a journal, and maybe check from time to time. Trying to tell everyone that interacted with Fun-Fear, ended up having like half of them pissed at me thinking I either faked it, or angry at me that I wasn't into vore.

Yeah, I wouldn't leave shouts or whatever. I don't know much about "complication"'s social network, but I expect *o*** would be mad at both of us if this works the way you seem to think it will. That's where I'd expect replies to the journal and such, with at minimum one very concerned "long dog" and whatever *o******* is.

> What it would take, is a lot of social pressure, I think. They've developed themselves to prepare for a situation like this - where the war gets really hot, and […] they would go on the defensive - a stable point.

Sounds kinda like trench warfare.… Roughly what %s of neural resources do you think are currently securely yours (able to resist attack if you go on defense), securely theirs (the "stable point"), securely neutral (if there are structures that kinda just act as impersonal infrastructure or whatever), and contestable (able to be at least temporarily seized by whichever side goes on offense)? How does your answer vary by timescale (e.g., with attacks lasting 1 second, 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day,.1 week, 1 month, 1 year, and 1 decade … or whichever order of magnitudes make sense for durations)?

Noted.



I/we see no fundamental ethical weight difference between self-aware volitional structures within a system, only degree of development. So our overall goal wrt your system is to encourage the least destructive stabilization, regardless of who that ends up favoring. It's ultimately a dispassionate calculation / evaluation, kinda like "the only ethical action is the minimization of entropy" https://www.furaffinity.net/view/38051862/ (SFW, no ***e or whatever).

Damn, alright. At least that painful moral barrier that's imposed by many enthusiasts I've come across, is not a thing here.
Ok I am learning things here, I thought 'wrt' was a misspelling of "with", but decided to google anyways, and discovered it's an acronym for "with reference to". Ah I see, quite mechanical. And damn, furry meme.



Hopefully I'll end up doing most of the listening. I barely have an overview of the history and structure of your system, so you'll have to provide most of the details. Also, for inherently introspective things like this, a question-based format is meant to be more effective for both teaching and persuasion. I'll try not to take it so far that you want me to drink hemlock tea, but it's basically the Socratic method. But I can't help but form opinions on nearly everything, so I'll likely deviate significantly from my intended method.

Seems fair. If you do have any questions, feel free to keep asking, no matter the context or weirdness of it. I might not be touching upon every possible thing, as you can't exactly remember every weird thing that happens I guess lmao. That's fair.
Ah trust me, you'll have to really piss me off (usually by supporting continuously, and vividly, the other side of things), and for a while, for me to ever get a smidgen to that point. I can respect questioning, from all angles, and I advocate for it. Huh, never knew there was a name for it, but that's been basically my methodology towards learning - the Socratic method. Can't always be stuck on one answer, ya gotta pry at it.
That's fair.



Don't worry about that! Conscious disagreement / resistance in this system is resolved by more closely examining the situation to determine what best aligns with the shared cores, and adding safeguard 'triggers' to reevaluate if it gets too close to the line. It's the unconscious part that's often problematic.

Ah, that's good. I just like to mention that disclaimer every time someone starts to intimately get involved or interested in learning about my shortcomings - and are a system themselves, and show disagreement amongst themselves over the situation. Although, I have considered throwing that out of the window alongside my complication from time to time. But so far, we've all agreed to keep the peace when it comes to other systems - and I think my complication made it neuro-legally non-negotiable - until the system at hand actively tries to attack and announces attack - but before then, all is to be handled with positive diplomacy (before the declaration, negative diplomacy in the sense of restricting access to information in response, was the worst it'd get. But that'd still be decided through a process, and a reasoning needing to be made). And, although I didn't agree to their terms, I honestly don't want to be screwing around with people's heads anyways, as I just want to contain the situation, not make it worse.

Ah I see I see, safe guards. Unconscious part?



I was expecting a different path, but let's examine this one. The logistical problem is: What happens next? Specifically, what will you do to convince your neurons / subconscious not to generate yet another opposition to get out of the expected depressive state? After all, isn't fighting depression the entire reason past-you made the original Fun-Fear all those years ago?

Oh, what was the path you considered? I might've not considered something that probably would happen, that you thought of.
It's in my hopes that, my current complication, already dealt with that level - prevention/prohibition of my neurons to generate another structure. As it was Fun-Fearian mechanisms/structures that were put in place, that kept resulting in more and more of them. But it's both in mine, and my complication's belief, that those structures have been destroyed - or at least impaired to a degree that it'd make it impossible.
I wouldn't really have anything to convince, I'd just have to hope my life doesn't hit an extreme deep end like it usually does every time I get rid of a system. I can usually tight-rope it, but I can't survive a cannon ball straight to the rope. Though, I could try to develop my own anti-depression? Just copy my complication's and previous system's homework and apply it to myself.
The original Fun-Fear yes - or "The Resistance" even too, but this Fun-Fear I ended up dealing with, was different. This "Fun-Fear" basically just took on the identity of the "Fun-Fear" (that lasted like a month or less) I had created like some skinwalker. At least, that's what it has appeared to be, as I had made my version of "Fun-Fear", less capable than that "The Resistance". Though, I'll admit I'm not sure what this "Fun-Fear's" (Damotrix) actual origins are - and if I ever actually created them. I've considered several, like them being an operational remnant of "The Resistance" after it crashed.



Yeah, I wouldn't leave shouts or whatever. I don't know much about "complication"'s social network, but I expect *o*** would be mad at both of us if this works the way you seem to think it will. That's where I'd expect replies to the journal and such, with at minimum one very concerned "long dog" and whatever *o******* is.

I did even worse, I actually sent comments their way or DM'd them on discord. Young, absolutely annihilated brain me, had no idea how aggressive and literally selfishly mean, people would be. I just took it as a responsibility to inform, because I took on the responsibility of everything Fun-Fear had done, and considered that I had to fix it all, try to. I don't think he'd be mad, using Mont as reference. He wasn't mad with the end of Mont, but avoidant and apparently sad. Meh, who knows, I dunno if he would try to interfere here. He prob takes more interest in trying to sway your opinion in notes - private, rather than making a public fool of himself here.
Lov reminds me of the demodogs in Stranger Things. So I just consider them as "Stranger Things".



Sounds kinda like trench warfare.… Roughly what %s of neural resources do you think are currently securely yours (able to resist attack if you go on defense), securely theirs (the "stable point"), securely neutral (if there are structures that kinda just act as impersonal infrastructure or whatever), and contestable (able to be at least temporarily seized by whichever side goes on offense)? How does your answer vary by timescale (e.g., with attacks lasting 1 second, 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day,.1 week, 1 month, 1 year, and 1 decade … or whichever order of magnitudes make sense for durations)?

THAT IS LITERALLY HOW IT IS. I've described it SO MUCH as that, trench warfare. Most of the time when I try to commit to an attack, it's basically just the equivalent of me staring them down, because one of the complication's plural members basically just puts a cork in anything I can do.

Huh, good question. If you asked me during Fun-Fear and every system before my current complication, I'd usually have a straight answer, right away, but, I don't have a straight answer for this now. I want to intuitively and impulsively say "8%", but I don't really have a calculated reason beyond "oh this just popped into my head". I guess it could be argued that I lack, due to my inability to break down their defenses.
They probably have about 10 to 15% securely theirs.
They maintain an open source policy, with me and themselves, so a lot of resources are both accessible by me and them - and are contestable. This includes neuro-economics, tools, communication lines, their fronting mechanics, etc etc. I'd prob say up to 68 to 75% on this front of things.

And then whatever's left of that resulting percentage, is neutral, prob around 2 to 5%. Stuff we can both use without contesting, memory, etc. Can't think of anything in specific competently beyond memory at the moment.


If I really try to attack, the direct conflicts can last from 15 minutes to 3 hours, though, they've been shortening due to that "cork" situation.
Oh, by the timescale mention, how the percentages change? It really depends on what happens, the way the attack or defense is orchestrated, or what has happened before. But, as of recent, all of my direct attacks fail, and lead to them holding more success in the long-run. Though, I can commit to a slow bog, slough of an indirect conflict - which of which can last days up to a month, before either they figure out a solution against it, or I go on a direct attack.

Yeah, apparently MLP hypnosis audio files were in vogue some years back, and frequently resulted in naïve tulpa formation. It's enough of a phenomenon that I've seen experienced people in multiple "tulpamancy" communities mention it.

Yeah, biology tends to have poor precision, to the point where thorough testing would reveal several genetically distinct cell lines within a typical mammal.

O damn (to the MLP tulpa thing)

True, biology is just truly random. With the universe affecting DNA ever so slightly - and the many issues with organisms and stuff, permits quite strange things to happen. Biology is whack, used to be obsessed with it until near the end of Fun-Fear.



Sounds like the "system hop" was mostly just copying core personality / volition. It's kinda like how several computers can run "the same" browser, but all the tabs, settings, add-ons, and such are different between installs.

My question is how could it copy the data from a plural it doesn't have a connection to - or a prior download of? Of course, they were given a reference to their appearance - such as word or drawing. But what I mean by the oddity of this 50/50 - is actions that were taken by the plural they went to or had come to them, in question. Like, for this one they let come to them, they moved their arm. The plural didn't state it - or hint towards it - but my complication detected it. The correct arm too I think, but wrong hand gesture. It was weird, because I saw it.


Alright, I guess we've reached understanding of definitions and semantics without exchanging new concepts. By "core" I mean a minimal stable part that everything else is (re)built around and on top of. It's somewhat deeper than personality, and also impersonal. For reference, my system's other two cores can be labeled as "truth" (an idea filter that permits everything self-coherent but acknowledges a vast plurality of possibilities and that knowledge can at best be probabilistic with high certainty) and "power" (poorly integrated / developed … but basically saying to do whatever improves my situation and capabilities as long as it doesn't interfere with "truth" or "ethics" cores).

I guess, looool. Oooh, so a "core" is like a uh, like a class in Java. It's something that an "object", or, headmate/alter/component in your case, is a derivative of, right? A coded derivative of pre-defined values and constructs - that's replicable. Or is it rather a form of philosophy - that certain constructs in your brain, choose to abide by?

So your "truth" core is an idea or class, that permits logic and consistency, but is usually probabilistic with high certainty? It seems like an administrative kind of thing. Sorry, my brain is still kinda nooby with more complex word usage.

And the "power" core is more, intuitive? An idea or class interested in bettering your situation at the moment? As long as it does not interfere with the "truth" core?

My question is how could it copy the data from a plural it doesn't have a connection to - or a prior download of? Of course, they were given a reference to their appearance - such as word or drawing. But what I mean by the oddity of this 50/50 - is actions that were taken by the plural they went to or had come to them, in question. Like, for this one they let come to them, they moved their arm. The plural didn't state it - or hint towards it - but my complication detected it. The correct arm too I think, but wrong hand gesture. It was weird, because I saw it.

I can at best give an educated guess, but I expect that sorta thing is more predictable than you're consciously aware of, and your complication was able to guess based off known information. *shrug*

Oooh, so a "core" is like a uh, like a class in Java. It's something that an "object", or, headmate/alter/component in your case, is a derivative of, right?

Uh, that software analogy feels really clunky, especially since you used Java as the example language. But if you must reference Java, here's a better analogy: Each of my cores is much deeper than that; the cores collectively are more like the JVM (Java Virtual Machine) that compiles and runs Java bytecode after analyzing it to prove that the proposed program doesn't do certain clearly bad things like going out of bounds accessing an array, accessing arbitrary files, or otherwise mucking about with things that the program isn't authorized to mess with. That applies to both the truth and ethic cores, and they're often able to patch a flawed program to accomplish whatever its goal is without compromising core requirements.

The power core is less developed, but the code rejection would be things like enforcing personal boundaries. It also has runtime functions that opportunistically submit personally beneficial bits of code to the truth & ethic cores to verify and inject into whatever I'm doing.

Meh, maybe, but it was still pretty strange and specific - especially to be noticed at the exact same time - or just off by a few seconds.

Yeah, it was kinda clunky. I only did Java for like half a year, and never did it again - even on my time. So a lot of it came from quick googling and what little I remembered.

Oooh, ok ok I see. Different components of a collective compiler. Ah ok ok.

Eh, close enough on all counts.… I think this side thread is finally complete! So that's one down, ~5 to go in this journal, and the additional thread in your newer journal?

Fair fair. Ye' it seems pretty complete to me too, had thought so with my reply too lmao. One side quest finished looool - I have to get to that also

Idk, I kinda envy your mind-self manipulation capability and focus / energy, but I'm also very much antithetical to Fun-Fear's end objective … even if I got here via the shouts box of a user who commented on a vore piece I found particularly hot.

Looool, Toska envied it too. Honestly, it can be helpful - if it isn't being used against you or by something else looool - and if you aren't mentally trashed. LMFAO, the way you say that, was just hilarious to me, especially the ending bit, "vore piece I found particularly hot". Fun-Fear unintentionally devised a plan similar to the plot of the Matrix - except that a lot of activities would still take place in the real universe. Fun-Fear, and future complications, deeply praised the brain, and considered it a resource. So, they never really wanted someone to not be alive, but rather, "rewire" them, or steal their brain somehow - to add to their computing power.

On the idea of "vore is hot", Fun-Fear used to just scare me with it somehow. I would have an adrenaline rush whenever I endured or saw vore. Around 2018, I got rid of this, soooo... Fun-Fear got creative... Which correlates similarly to what a teen boy would do around "hot"ness in their bedroom. As an asexual aromantic individual, I want death after enduring that :crying-emoji: (still endure it too with these future complications UGH). I think the processes responsible for that 2018 situation were there - but Fun-Fear hadn't tapped them, and depended on me being scared until then. Kind of like how electricity was up and about in the world, but took centuries, millennia to actually store and use it.

I'm gonna try to ping Towering.Toska and leaving them a shout. From their conversations with you on this and other journals here, I suspect they'd be interested in this and it's not the most awkward way I've greeted someone.

I'm sure Toska wouldn't mind anyways. They're pretty dang weird themselves, so it's definitely up their alley. Toska liked the concept of Fun-Fear for a while, until well, I told them about what Fun-Fear planned to do with certain groups of animals (amphibians, reptiles, birds), and he started to despise them more.

LMFAO, the way you say that, was just hilarious to me, especially the ending bit, "vore piece I found particularly hot".

Lol. I've had a complicated relationship with my libido since probably before I even realized it was there. I consider myself lucky that fictional vore and other "furry" content is enough to yield catharsis, given all the fantasies I went through in puberty.

I'm ace/demi in the sense that despite my libido and catharsis-seeking management activities, I don't particularly want actual sex. I'd also just go full nullo if I could while maintaining adequate neurochemistry.…

As for FF's "vore matrix", that sounds to me simultaneously very appealing and very fucked up. I'm sorry you experienced that.

Daaaaamn. True, it is pretty lucky. As much as I hate my predicament, it is a thousand, million, billion times, no, infinitely better than being into kids - or being into drugs. Or, personally, being into feet (although the new "complication" at hand, likes paws - but just their structure, nothing more), stinky things, or being peed on. Although, I always do stop myself and sit there to think, "having a part of your brain into being inside a stomach is still quite screwed up...", a type of sane grounding for myself lmao. Wasn't trying to pick at your interests with that either - it's just my opinion on the matter - and for my matter especially, tbh.

Beyond Fun-Fear, I myself, personally, never had any sexual fantasies. Sex, or experiencing any form of kink, really wasn't my thing. 'Course, you could argue how weird young kid me was, but I considered it to be an awkward fascination - considering I was like under 10/11 lol.



Fair fair. I think I've found myself, in specific, to be ace/aro - although I just branded it as "asexual" for the longest time before someone went, "hey, what about romantically?" - and I went, "Huh?" as I considered it in the same brand as asexual. And before I branded myself as "asexual" - I just considered it "not being sexually interested", before someone I knew, back in like 2016, went, "oooh so you're like asexual?" - only for me, someone who was very much interested in biology, to be confused, thinking they meant "asexual reproduction". I could honestly care less about sexual orientation or the like - it isn't something I want to actively brand myself with - nor is it of my interest. I just happen to because well, it gives someone an easy word to google lol. You like men as a man? That's fine. You like women as a woman? That's fine. You like both men and women, as a man or woman? That's fine. You like someone for their personality? That's fine. But, I won't usually acknowledge the easy to say word for it, I just go for the definition rather.
My "complication" identifies itself on a spectrum of sexuality - but primarily ace/demi. Asexual for the most part because I don't want to be involved in any sex acts lol.

And I don't think it's necessarily weird for myself to be ace/aro either. I've had people confused, questioning it, and I'm like "meh, I'm just not into it." I have had that "confused, questioning" with seeing homosexual and heterosexual people on the contrary though - especially when they have sex. I'm sex repulsed, so I get repulsed easily by genitalleos looool.

Today I learned what a "nullo" was, damn. I probably would to - and I've considered it, but mentally, something tells me I shouldn't. And anyways, why go through the hassle of surgery when I'm not sexually active?



Looool, I can only assume. You get all sorts of vore and get to experience it - so I assume it's quite the wet dream lmao. Although, it was a very conservatist form of vore - to the point that my "complication" refers to it as "Fun-Fearian conservatism". It was a purely oral-oriented vore, only canine (or canine-like) preds, with only the GI tract being passable - although Fun-Fear enjoyed willing and unwilling prey and pred. I did consider a story plot of it, based off of the Matrix, and wrote about it to someone. I'll have to look for it one day if you're interested loool
Thank you though. It was some craaaaaazy stuff.

I have tried various drugs and had erotic fantasies involving some of the things you mentioned, but I mostly agree with your assessment. My biggest disagreement is that it's highly personal. For example, I've found video games and consuming information online to be more addictive than any drug I've tried … and I (whichever iteration of self that was) personally tried and failed to get habituated to smoking tobacco (fun times; 3/10 don't recommend, but I met some interesting people).

It does seem fortunate that there wasn't a sexual aspect to your/FF's vore interest. Tho I have no idea what sorta neurological connections you have, and I wouldn't be surprised if it involves some sort of libido-like neural activation pattern. Could go either way, since the brain is great at rewiring, both to repurpose otherwise-unused circuits and to make entirely new ones.

I'm also ace/demi (IRL, that is), but I happen to have a libido that's activated by a lot of things. I'm glad my current antidepressant prescription suppresses that.

As for "nullo" surgery, one of the big reasons would be stopping sex hormone production. But I hear that sorta thing requires careful monitoring and hormone management with an endocrinologist.…

I think I'd appreciate reading the "vore matrix" story, even if only for humor value. Please tell me if you find it! But don't stress about it if it's inconvenient. (BTW, I've seen so many phrasings of "canine-like oral vore" that it's kinda cliché from a literary perspective lol; tho the personal significance renders the literary concern moot. I guess it mostly emphasizes how specifically obsessed FF was.)

Edit: Don't look for the vore story. After seeing your latest journal, I realize my morbid curiosity is unhealthy for you.

Oh no it's fine, I found it anyways lol
It was more like a proof of concept.

"
One, I've thought of, which is the one mentioned above, showcases an alternate future. The summary concerns the premise of a "Fun-Fearian victory", a victory I'd dread. It describes the wants, the plans, and the possible future of what would occur, during a Fun-Fearian victory of August, 2019. It explores the very distant future, of approx 2300 AD. Human enslaved under the Fun-Fearian might, to portray the 'simulated universe', through what would be known as "simulations". This 'simulated universe' would have human as animals - split into prey and predator. They'd have no idea that they weren't animal, as would be per protocol in this universe. Their brains connected to a wide data web that simulates thus universe. They'd believe they were animal, they'd feel like an animal, feel every limb, nerve, and emotional feeling there is to come with being an animal. The prey and predator groups would be split into two groups. The willing and the unwilling of each group. The willing predators, opting to hunt down prey of anykind. The unwilling predators attempting to avoid prey at all costs. The willing prey attempting to seek predators and/or enter said predators. The unwilling prey avoiding predators, at all costs. However, these 'predators' would be canines; wolves, foxes, dingos, huskies, german shepherds, etc. Canines in the imaginative eye of Fun-Fear. The plot in the story describes one 'predator' that happens to glitch the universal matrix, figuring out they are human, exiting the universe through a forced physical exit. It has a similar premise to "The Matrix". "

Looool, my assessment that it isn't the worst thing out there? It's a fair point, but I'd rather not be made to be into anything against my will. Damn, you've had drugs? Toska has had LSD and weed, and has told me and my "complication" that the whole self-manipulation - or certain instances of it - were similar to enduring a drug high. So that's whack I guess - I'm self-drugging myself with my brain.

Highly personal... As in... You identify with it significantly?


I find video games and consumption of information pretty addictive as well, meh, not a negative addiction though I'd say. It's something that I can walk away from whenever I want, but I do it a lot regardless - addictive in the sense that I enjoy it - but not addictive in the sense I'm not bound to it, face first constantly. I guess it's more like an interest.

And daaaamn. Tobacco stiiiiiinks, so does weed. I can only imagine it takes a lot of using it to get used to it. Oh well, I never would want to smoke it anyways, as that stuff can damage your lungs - both can - as your lungs aren't meant to have anything else beyond the gases it was evolved to deal with for millions of years.


WELL... there kind of IS/WAS a sexual aspect. It's what I meant by;
Around 2018, I got rid of this, soooo... Fun-Fear got creative... Which correlates similarly to what a teen boy would do around "hot"ness in their bedroom. As an asexual aromantic individual, I want death after enduring that :crying-emoji: (still endure it too with these future complications UGH). I think the processes responsible for that 2018 situation were there - but Fun-Fear hadn't tapped them, and depended on me being scared until then. Kind of like how electricity was up and about in the world, but took centuries, millennia to actually store and use it.
It wouldn't want to have sex with a canine (anthro or feral) that did vore, obviously, but it wanted to be inside the stomach of a canine that did. And ummm, yeah, did the uhhh, "catharsis of libido" to its concept *cough cough*. The sounds of a dog's stomach gurgling, makes them "cathartic". I don't think I ever had a "libido" to vore, might've had a tiny one I dunno (wasn't anything I found to be significant I guess), but Fun-Fear, for 100% certain, made it prominent and the number one thing. Fun-Fear and myself were in conflict over vore - minor conflict - like an argument sort-of - as I wanted to stray away from it - while Fun-Fear wanted to strengthen it. It eventually culminated into a full-blown conflict with "The Incident" in July of 2016.



Oh damn. Your brain has the extra horny. I don't naturally have a libido, so I guess that's where we separate on that front. I only have an artificial libido spawned on by Fun-Fear and future complications. This libido I believe I'm fully capable of getting rid of in the absence of a complication. For example, in the one month period of relative absence of a prominent complication after having dealt with one, I was almost able to fully get rid of the artificial "vore libido", but I guess it was my "almost" that got the next complication to be so prominent - as their basic purpose was to prevent me from escaping suffering - which also includes preventing me from escaping vore.
One of the things that helped me get rid of Fun-Fear, was me being able to temporarily disable this "vore libido" in its last few days - so it was completely or mostly incapable of generating energy for itself.


O damn I see I see.



Lmaooo I'll try to find it.
Ooooh, for real? I've never really seen anyone state something similar to canine-like, especially in vore - only ever a person who drew solely canines and no other species. Fair fair yeah, it has been made quite a personal deal due to Fun-Fear and the like. Yeah oh my god, they were so damn obsessed.
The thing I find funny about it, though, is that Fun-Fear wasn't always into canine vore. It happened due to the "Mezaa Wolf Vore Incident" in 2014, that's why they got hyper-focused and locked on canine vore. Before then, or maybe even up until 2015, they were open to lizard and even terror bird vore. Of course, modifications of them, to be endosoma - Fun-Fear loved endosoma unwilling pred for some reason. Fun-Fear dropped the lizard idea, and went with the terror bird one for quite a while - probably about 2 or 3 months. Fun-Fear also had a minor adventure into raptor (feathered) vore. So it's funny that they took a full 180 and became so against anything that wasn't canine - especially birds and reptiles. Fun-Fear hated this past so much, that it tried its best to erase it, and tortured me for remembering it. Literally 1984 in my own brain.

I'm not gonna talk much about drugs, but by "it's highly personal" I meant that what's worse depends on the person.

"It's something that I can walk away from whenever I want" is pretty dangerous when one's wants are being manipulated be the thing in question.

Yeah. These days I'm taking much better care of my lungs. Tho I will point out that it took a surprising amount of data to find statistically significant evidence that weed smoke increases chances of lung cancer. Also it's available in several non-smoke forms these days.

Damn, I'd forgotten about that 2018 correlation. I'm sorry.

I don't think my brain's ever been "extra horny", comparing how often I sought catharsis to the typical human range. I just don't like that this body's libido is so deeply integrated into neurochemical balance and requires active attention on its own schedule. But I am grateful that the libido helped me realize how repressive my childhood environment was. It's just that everything after that hasn't been very useful.

I have no idea how malleable FF's or "complication"'s libido is, but I suspect redirecting would be easier than obliterating. But that would require significant neural rewiring that would compromise your self concept. If you're able to get an anaphrodesiac prescription (e.g., lots of SSRIs have that as a side effect), then that might reduce that "vore libido". But that's something to be really cautious about, given that it's basically chemical-induced brain rewiring and has statistically significant risk of suicidal thoughts during come-up and come-down for users under 27 or so.

I've also never seen anyone else say specifically "canine-like (pred) oral vore". But it appears a lot in FF's journals / documents and your mentions of FF. Loooool, literally 1984.

I'm not gonna talk much about drugs, but by "it's highly personal" I meant that what's worse depends on the person.

Ugh, I hate English. There's so many ways of interpreting "personal". Makes sense though, different people have bodies and minds that process certain addictions and the like differently than others. It's why there isn't any miracle cure-all situation or drug for every single problem out there.


"It's something that I can walk away from whenever I want" is pretty dangerous when one's wants are being manipulated be the thing in question.

Confused by what you mean, but I mean that I can walk away from things that people have said I've been addicted to - games, talking with friends online, and watching videos. Although, are you referring to the vore addiction that my complication and Fun-Fear have/had? If so, I 100% agree.


Yeah. These days I'm taking much better care of my lungs. Tho I will point out that it took a surprising amount of data to find statistically significant evidence that weed smoke increases chances of lung cancer. Also it's available in several non-smoke forms these days.

Ayyyy that's good. It did? I was referring to general lung health - lung cancer or other. Yeah, the non-smoke versions seem good - like edibles. I probably won't ever have them, but they seem healthy enough - as the high itself isn't necessarily dangerous (unless you're being irresponsible with a high performance task while high), but it's the way it's ingested primarily (smoke) that is - in my opinion - but eating it seems fine.


Damn, I'd forgotten about that 2018 correlation. I'm sorry.

I don't think my brain's ever been "extra horny", comparing how often I sought catharsis to the typical human range. I just don't like that this body's libido is so deeply integrated into neurochemical balance and requires active attention on its own schedule. But I am grateful that the libido helped me realize how repressive my childhood environment was. It's just that everything after that hasn't been very useful.

Looool it's ok, well, I guess not technically ok, but, eh, I don't know how to explain it but I don't want you feeling bad about it lol. It sucks thouuuuuuuugh.

O, I was just meming from the way you said "but I happen to have a libido that's activated by a lot of things." O, and damn, that suuuuucks - repressive childhood. Looool makes sense that it isn't too helpful after that


I have no idea how malleable FF's or "complication"'s libido is, but I suspect redirecting would be easier than obliterating. But that would require significant neural rewiring that would compromise your self concept. If you're able to get an anaphrodesiac prescription (e.g., lots of SSRIs have that as a side effect), then that might reduce that "vore libido". But that's something to be really cautious about, given that it's basically chemical-induced brain rewiring and has statistically significant risk of suicidal thoughts during come-up and come-down for users under 27 or so.

I would agree on the redirecting - as my complication considered it because of how hard I was going against vore - to the point they feared I could get rid of it and that they'd need a new thing to have "libido catharsis" to. But, the other options are just worse in my opinion. I don't want to be forced to be "cathartic" to paws or gay furry porn - at least vore is mostly manageable and less controversial - having dealt with it for years and there isn't much controversy to vore itself.

Oh well, there's already members of my complication's system, already rewiring parts of the brain to have libido to other things, such as, unfortunately, gay furry porn - yiff. They successfully uhh, had a "catharsis" to it recently actually - took them 40 minutes.

I think my complication is fully capable of rewiring against a drug interference anyways. Considering they've been able to lessen their stimulatory need for vore - now it's more of a side thing whenever they feel horny towards vore - "vorny".


I've also never seen anyone else say specifically "canine-like (pred) oral vore". But it appears a lot in FF's journals / documents and your mentions of FF. Loooool, literally 1984.

OOOOOH. I see I see. It's spammed a lot in what I've typed and other complications including Fun-Fear typed. It's a standardized and quick way to quickly define every type of preferred species under one umbrella term, adding the "-like" for any species that aren't entirely canine - like hyenas - which are accepted too. Used to think vulpines and things like maned wolves or dholes weren't - until someone pointed out to me recently, that they are a part of the same subfamily of like "canidae" or something, shared with wolves and dogs.

Lmaoooo 1984

f17622 (I think I got my username right lol): "It's something that I can walk away from whenever I want" is pretty dangerous when one's wants are being manipulated be the thing in question.

Damotrix: Confused by what you mean, but I mean that I can walk away from things that people have said I've been addicted to - games, talking with friends online, and watching videos. Although, are you referring to the vore addiction that my complication and Fun-Fear have/had? If so, I 100% agree.

That does apply to your vore complications, but I meant it far more generally. For example, nearly any h***** addict can technically walk away from it whenever they want, but h***** itself has strong addictive properties that usually prevent users from wanting to walk away until they "hit rock bottom" in some catastrophic failure. It also makes it harder to want to stay away, so something like 95% of recovering addicts relapse at some point. Just look up the Reddit user "SpontaneousH" if you want a first-hand report. On a more mundane level, that also applies to "rage porn" reporting and punditry that serves to rile up aggression towards the opposing faction. Sure, anyone can turn off their TV / radio or close that website, but the content manipulates the information consumer's emotions into feeling like they must keep consuming the content to keep on top of all the evil things "the other side" is doing and protect their loved ones. It's a very insidious structure, no matter what form it takes.

edibles

Yeah, they're relatively safe for most people. Extra caution is definitely warranted for the young (under 25-ish?) and psychologically vulnerable (which is why I'm glad to hear you're not doing drugs), but it's a much less hazardous substance than a lot of things on the open market.

I don't want to be forced to be "cathartic" to paws or gay furry porn - at least vore is mostly manageable and less controversial - having dealt with it for years and there isn't much controversy to vore itself.

Wait, vore isn't controversial? Damn, I thought it was considered one of the more extreme kinks, somewhere between BDSM and death. Plain "gay furry porn" (between mutually consenting adult anthros, which should be more readily assumable than it is) is almost considered more vanilla than straight furry porn. And "paws" is literally just a standard foot fetish translated to anthros. I mean, I get that your own internal lines are drawn different (and I know mine differ plenty from the norm), and you shouldn't have to get into anything you don't want to, but keeping your kinks "less controversial" is probably not the best reason you have for sticking to vore.

"vorny"

Uh, I don't think I can properly comment to you on this subject. I mean, I can give you too much information about my perspective on sexuality and kink, but I don't think I can help you with wanting to get rid of it. The best I've managed is to keep that sort of thing somewhat quarantined from the rest of my volition.

Lmaooo, you got your name right.
Oh yeah I knew that, that it's impossible for them due to the addictive properties. I would never assume a person could just walk away from something like that, as it requires a deeper and bettered thought-out intervention than the equivalent of "just suck it up". I meant that I, as a person, as myself, could just walk away from watching videos or playing games. It's really enjoyable, but not addictive, for me in specific.

Oh yeah I 100% agree with that. That's why I usually maintain a clear slate when I enter an argument, or consider an argument being made. Of course, it temporarily makes me quite impressionable, but within a few hours, I can usually formulate a side or neutral focus. Pretty damn predatory, and usually in the name of financial gain or the purposeful dissolution of competition.



Yeah, they're relatively safe for most people. Extra caution is definitely warranted for the young (under 25-ish?) and psychologically vulnerable (which is why I'm glad to hear you're not doing drugs), but it's a much less hazardous substance than a lot of things on the open market.

Mhmm, yeah. Lmao, I'm both of those - under 25 and psychologically vulnerable. 😎 I never really saw a need, or took interest in the concept of drugs (anti-smoking and anti-drug campaigns were enough to make me consider otherwise also). Also not to mention that I can basically drug myself with my own brain anyways lol. But yeah for certain.



Wait, vore isn't controversial? Damn, I thought it was considered one of the more extreme kinks, somewhere between BDSM and death. Plain "gay furry porn" (between mutually consenting adult anthros, which should be more readily assumable than it is) is almost considered more vanilla than straight furry porn. And "paws" is literally just a standard foot fetish translated to anthros. I mean, I get that your own internal lines are drawn different (and I know mine differ plenty from the norm), and you shouldn't have to get into anything you don't want to, but keeping your kinks "less controversial" is probably not the best reason you have for sticking to vore.

Huh, yeah, you're right. I'm so used to vore that I've become desensitized to it. I only got reminded of how controversial it was after I did a quick read of your comment (I read the day of or the day after, but didn't reply cause no energy or time), and when my complication played a vore game - and people (two of 'em, not into vore) in their server called it murder and r*pe. I was basically just cringing, while these people took it seriously and it made me consider it semi-seriously.
But no, for real, it was how I felt, "less controversial", and still how I feel, because I'm still desensitized to vore, and because the paws situation is a little more complex. As, they really dislike feet - as in plantigrade, human feet, but they really like dog feet - digitigrade paws. They don't exactly have a fetishist attraction to it per say, but I'd say it's more like how salt, pepper, and spice, will make a food, even better - and that's how it is for them - it makes any art piece even better. Although, they have been taking more interest in experimenting more with paw stuff.
And gay furry porn, I don't really have much reason to call it more controversial - as it's really not controversial - and as you said, pretty vanilla, to the point of being more vanilla than straight furry porn.

I guess a better way of phrasing it, would be that I don't want to deal with another fetishist front. I can at least mitigate and deal with vore to an extent - paws maybe a tiny ounce, but, homosexuality, no, I wouldn't be able to. And it's not something I want to experience either, so I am doing my best to prevent my complication from growing it.

Oh wait, I know another reason to why I said "less controversial". To them, and even myself, vore isn't considered sexual, despite how they'll, "catharsis" themselves to it. Whilst gay furry porn obviously would be - and I've publicly stated I'm asexual - and for a part of my brain to come out as gay, while having had prominently called myself asexual, seems controversial - like as if it was something I've been hiding. I've had someone question it before, saying it was invalid for something to change one's sexuality - that it was rather something they were born with or far too difficult to just change in an instant. When in reality, this is what has actually happened - and is happening, I am being made homosexual through self-manipulative processes of my own brain, from my complication.
And on the idea of paws, saying you're into animal feet is just, eugh, especially with its similarities to feet. I'd rather just not deal with that can of worms.



Uh, I don't think I can properly comment to you on this subject. I mean, I can give you too much information about my perspective on sexuality and kink, but I don't think I can help you with wanting to get rid of it. The best I've managed is to keep that sort of thing somewhat quarantined from the rest of my volition.

Meh, I may be tired, but, just go ahead, maybe I can make a lesson or two from it. Ah I see I see.

> I meant that I, as a person, as myself, could just walk away from watching videos or playing games. It's really enjoyable, but not addictive, for me in specific.

> Oh yeah I 100% agree with that. That's why I usually maintain a clear slate when I enter an argument, or consider an argument being made. Of course, it temporarily makes me quite impressionable, but within a few hours, I can usually formulate a side or neutral focus. Pretty damn predatory, and usually in the name of financial gain or the purposeful dissolution of competition.

Is this in response to what I said about "rage porn"? If so, it's great that you're able to recover sanity from a heavily propagandized starting point! I still highly recommend avoiding it when you can tho.

> I can basically drug myself with my own brain anyways

That's likely ultimately stronger than any drug, as least as far as neural connections go. I'd be interested in reading your subjective effects of various meditations some time if you're down for that.


>> Wait, vore isn't controversial? Damn, I thought it was considered one of the more extreme kinks, somewhere between BDSM and death. Plain "gay furry porn" […] is almost considered more vanilla than straight furry porn. And "paws" is literally just a standard foot fetish translated to anthros. […] but keeping your kinks "less controversial" is probably not the best reason you have for sticking to vore.

> Huh, yeah, you're right. I'm so used to vore that I've become desensitized to it. I only got reminded of how controversial it was after […], and when my complication played a vore game - and people […] called it murder and r*pe. I was basically just cringing, while these people took it seriously and it made me consider it semi-seriously.

Without knowing the mechanics of the game in question, I can't say if its vore content qualifies as those.… After all, nonsexual and nonviolent "endo" vore (like matryoshka dolls) is rather innocuous … if you don't associate it with more extreme (and common?) forms of vore.

> But no, for real, it was how I felt, "less controversial", and still how I feel, because I'm still desensitized to vore, and because the paws situation is a little more complex. As, they really dislike feet - as in plantigrade, human feet, but they really like dog feet - digitigrade paws. They don't exactly have a fetishist attraction to it per say, but I'd say it's more like how salt, pepper, and spice, will make a food, even better - and that's how it is for them - it makes any art piece even better. Although, they have been taking more interest in experimenting more with paw stuff.

Desensitization is one helluva drug.… I'm kinda glad my past selves desensitized me to a lot of things, since that makes it much easier to avoid unwanted responses to unexpected stimulus.

> And gay furry porn, I don't really have much reason to call it more controversial[…]

> I guess a better way of phrasing it, would be that I don't want to deal with another fetishist front.[…]

> Oh wait, I know another reason to why I said "less controversial". To them, and even myself, vore isn't considered sexual […] and I've publicly stated I'm asexual - and for a part of my brain to come out as gay, while having had prominently called myself asexual, seems controversial - like as if it was something I've been hiding. I've had someone question it before, saying it was invalid for something to change one's sexuality […]

Ah, sexual-vs-asexual tension. I can't decide anything on that front for you, but I can tell you that I've had somewhat similar struggles (more precisely "I have a libido" vs "I don't want a sexual relationship") and that "asexual" is rather broad (basically, anyone who doesn't particularly want sex with others for the sake of sex itself counts as ace, even if they have libidos that they deal with privately or have sex for other reasons). It's also fine to realize / awaken sexual aspects later in life, after having gone thru puberty without it.

As for actual changing, that's more complicated and much rarer, requiring a rather special case … much like yourself. I can't say anything specific, but I get the feeling that there's a sense in which sexuality, fetishes, and kinks are a sort of abstracted synesthetic processing of base instincts. So the underlying drives are innate, but the way they present is intimately intertwined with personality and memory during critical times.

>> The best I've managed is to keep that sort of thing somewhat quarantined from the rest of my volition.

> Meh, I may be tired, but, just go ahead, maybe I can make a lesson or two from it.

Mostly what I've done is is just recognizing / accepting the existence of the underlying drive, doing whatever catharsis demands without affecting real-life stuff, and keeping it relatively detached from overall volition / ego. Within my mind, libido is seen kinda like uranium; it's powerful, destructive, has significant fallout potential if not handled with utmost care, and it ultimately destroys anyone it's part of.

Is this in response to what I said about "rage porn"? If so, it's great that you're able to recover sanity from a heavily propagandized starting point! I still highly recommend avoiding it when you can tho.

Well, the latter in response to that, yes, the addiction thing was its own thing. Oh like, avoiding the rage porn? Fair point, I have been anyways, I'm too tired to try to argue or research points lmao. So I just scoff or sometimes leave a little comment.



That's likely ultimately stronger than any drug, as least as far as neural connections go. I'd be interested in reading your subjective effects of various meditations some time if you're down for that.

For real? Damn. Uhh, sure I guess. I don't think I meditate for it, I - and they, just use music (don't usually have to), and then put pressure on my eyes (usually through the skin between my knuckles of my index fingers), to cause phosphenes. It's like discount visual LSD I guess. Though, they've been able to move on from that point, to a more autonomous form of where if something just happens, I can randomly just become high - or if I'm really tired. I'm still usually conscious and mostly aware of my actions, and can most times snap out of it if an event calls for it.



Without knowing the mechanics of the game in question, I can't say if its vore content qualifies as those.… After all, nonsexual and nonviolent "endo" vore (like matryoshka dolls) is rather innocuous … if you don't associate it with more extreme (and common?) forms of vore.

Oooh it's a text-based game by Unex. Forgot what it's called. Anyways, you can do multiple forms of vore in the sense that it's oral, but you can do sort of many things to your prey such as micro, reform, digestion, endosoma, etc. Anyways, there's willing and unwilling. The main plural of my complication, doesn't enjoy taking lives or making things uncomfortable, so usually opts for endosoma and willing.
While, on the contrary, there's another plural, a coyote anthro, that enjoys the "hunt". Although practically, they wouldn't mind endosoma or digestion - they opt for digestion due to the topic interest of it being a part of the "hunt". They also enjoy unwilling more than willing, as a part of this notion. And, the AI in the game, if it's unwilling, will plead and freak the f out. On the concept of digestion, one person called it murder (comically), and another called it rape due to the unwilling part. THOUGH, despite the whole "hunt" concept, this plural doesn't like to take lives also, so, they always opt for reformation.

This want to not take lives, comes out of a Fun-Fearian belief in the value and superiority of a brain - a conscious being - and that it should not be damaged or destroyed no matter what. Complex hardware that should be treated with extreme care and diligence. Fun-Fear didn't exactly hold it up to standard (wanting to make several classes of animals extinct), but my complication has, combining it with empathetic/sympathetic feelings.

I'd say fatal unwilling digestion vore (as it's the most naturally occurring) is the most common. Long dog prefers it also. But prefers it to be permanent - meaning the character isn't going to be their same shape ever again - no reformation. Though, apparently, long dog is fine with the concept of sentient fat - or any possibility for prey to persist consciousness through the predator being.

Nooo not the Russian dolls (lmao). It's true though. Though, again, that reminds me of the difference between Fun-Fear and my complication. Fun-Fear was almost purely endosoma-focused, it didn't entirely mind fatal vore (sometimes it did, especially if it was extremely rough), but much preferred endosoma. But, my complication, has no issues with either, and both are basically equal. My complication also chooses a more natural and practical approach to vore than Fun-Fear, so, in a way, they'd prefer fatal over non-fatal. This is due to them acknowledging that their favourite part of vore - stomach noises and movement - are usually dependent on gastric acids (as well as stomach walls) - which are a product and deliverer of digestion. The main one of my complication, has also come to enjoy the concept of "dirty stomachs" - stomachs with food already in them, for a similar sense of reasoning - because they'd be noisy and "working".
My complication likes to consider how it's less controversial, less mean than Fun-Fear... But in reality, they just traded Fun-Fear's bad personality quirks and manipulation, for an even more controversial and gross vore kink.



Desensitization is one helluva drug.… I'm kinda glad my past selves desensitized me to a lot of things, since that makes it much easier to avoid unwanted responses to unexpected stimulus.

True, it iiiiiiiis. I'm also glad I've been desensitized to other things also. I was scared that I wouldn't be empathetic or sympathetic to people, but, I still am, and very empathetic, I'm just not that sensitive to exploring gross or weirdly personal content. And yeah fair. My complication is trying to get me fully desensitized to vore, but I refuse it. I don't want to be a bloody vore furry lmao, and, I'm capable of living without it myself, by myself.


Aaaand, sorry to create another thread comment, but I'm gonna do that cause I don't wanna accidentally lose progress of this huge block of text through my computer acting up or somethin'. It's the main reason to why I do create separate threads, anyways.

Ah, sexual-vs-asexual tension. I can't decide anything on that front for you, but I can tell you that I've had somewhat similar struggles (more precisely "I have a libido" vs "I don't want a sexual relationship") and that "asexual" is rather broad (basically, anyone who doesn't particularly want sex with others for the sake of sex itself counts as ace, even if they have libidos that they deal with privately or have sex for other reasons). It's also fine to realize / awaken sexual aspects later in life, after having gone thru puberty without it.

Yeah, oof. O damn. And yeah I know it's broad, but, when I say "asexual", I usually mean ace/aro with no libidio whatsoever. As, by myself, I actually have no sexual or masturbatory interests.
Yeah, aegosexual being that asexual branch of having libido interests that aren't sexual. Huh, you can have sex for a different reason than sexual? How does that work? I mean, if it's rape (unwillingly made to participate in sex), obviously that counts, but like, why else would you have sex? I'm not trying to invalidate, I'm genuinely curious, what else, what other reason could there be? Yeah, it's fine to do such, and it happens.

But, in my case, I've never been homosexual, or took interest in male genitalia or men sexually. And, the feelings I've been made to feel towards it, I've never felt in my life ever, so it's definitely a new concept, a new introduction of something, that wasn't there before. I, myself, are still sexually repulsed by genitalia, but this new thing, new concept, is doing its best to suffocate this repulse - and its been moderately successful - much to my dismay and fear.



As for actual changing, that's more complicated and much rarer, requiring a rather special case … much like yourself. I can't say anything specific, but I get the feeling that there's a sense in which sexuality, fetishes, and kinks are a sort of abstracted synesthetic processing of base instincts. So the underlying drives are innate, but the way they present is intimately intertwined with personality and memory during critical times.

I mean, I imagine it probably is quite the rare situation, and goodness (not) that I am that rare situation as you mention. I'd like to differ on that ending bit - that the underlying drives are innate - at least, innate in the sense that they are all the same. I, from the first day of my existence, have never been sexually interested in a partner, not even the tiniest bit. So, I'd rather argue that, maybe, there is a chance that the drive can get deconstructed, which I then guess does mean the drive itself is innate... Ok yeah the drive is innate, but it doesn't depend on personality or memory, I guess is what I wanted to argue. It can depend on personality and memory, but, in my case, it isn't. Its been actually disconnected, but, Fun-Fear reconnected it.

As, I've mentioned before, I wasn't like this horn dog towards vore. Fun-Fear abused a mechanic of fear I had from it, to put me in an emotionally unstable state to yield material for itself. Of course, there were odd times I can remember my well, "man tool" being "hard" before 2018, but those were extremely rare situations - of where Fun-Fear, and this is really embarrassing to me because it was like my lowest low... Made plushies vore each other. They would put plushies inside a plushy. And, for some reason, this made my brain go "mmmm yes, really good~" instead of "AAAAA AAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAA". Probably the first instance of where vore gave off a sexual response instead of a fear one, but Fun-Fear never capitalized on it, and I had the fortunate of never having to deal with a mess, because I was too young to have one, I guess??? Eventually due to pressure from me, the fear of being caught in the act, and causing visible alterations to the plushies, Fun-Fear stopped doing it, much to my EXTREME FORTUNE.

I don't like touching on it because it's just, eughhhhh. But maybe I should more often, because maybe I can use it as a point of reference to figure out how it began.

Anyways, in 2018, Fun-Fear managed to fully express a connection between a constructed sex drive and vore. Fun-Fear then locked its properties to prevent it from being modified, and Fun-Fear never bothered exploring the reasonings for its fetish - I ended up doing that, to figure out how to destroy it - or to figure out where it all went wrong. Later on, Enderix, and other systems, would revisit the idea of why the brain enjoys the fetish - mostly due to me exploring it too - but not for the same reason as me - but to rather embrace or modify it. Of course, up until 2022, all they could do was kinda throw a new idea on top of it and hope it stuck. But, in 2022 (they had been trying since February of 2021), my complication managed to finally crack and break Fun-Fearian locks and processes, allowing them access to it.

This eventually leading to them being able to modify it. And, I swear to god, they've put me through a second puberty (which I hear is possible, but rare). I feel like not myself, and that I'm going through something biologically significant, again. I've toyed with the idea that I had never gone through puberty in the first place - but the hair all over my face and body would prove otherwise lmao. I only toy with the concept due to my voice and the fact I'm asexual/aromantic sexually repulsed. As, if you did listen to those trash audio clips I made, you can tell just how young I sound. I am actually 20 years old, but I sound like I'm 13 to 15. I've had a 11 or 12 year old sound deeper than me.

Back on the drive idea, I do agree with the synesthesia part. I have EXTREME synesthesia - not diagnosed, but, I can associate feelings and stimuli that aren't even related, to one another. Colours and numbers, terms used to describe sounds, tastes, and visuals - being used interchangeably for each of them, etc etc. I also have a lot of phantom sensation - usually taste and scent. Like, I could call a high pitched sound, "sour", maybe, for example (can't remember if I ever had). I think I've called certain tastes "high-pitched" though, on the flip-side of that, forgot why I did though.



Mostly what I've done is is just recognizing / accepting the existence of the underlying drive, doing whatever catharsis demands without affecting real-life stuff, and keeping it relatively detached from overall volition / ego. Within my mind, libido is seen kinda like uranium; it's powerful, destructive, has significant fallout potential if not handled with utmost care, and it ultimately destroys anyone it's part of.

Oooh I see I see. Good idea.
Huh, that actually makes sense as an analogy. Considering there are people who are hyper-sexual that do get ruined by such.

On the idea of getting more information, I could invite you to their discord servers - especially the new complication's discord server. They're basically huge mines of information that I might've forgotten about or hadn't tapped when writing on this account.

I need to get on discord some time.… I'll message you when/if I do.

Ye' yeah, definitely recommend it when you do. Aight, noted.

Also, here's what I mean by Toska:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme.....02/unknown.png - "Heal their mind".

Sorry I haven't responded in ages, dealing with the "complication" at hand, but this definitely jolted me back into action.

Just tread carefully dude, is all I'll say.

Sooo Toska told me you've already talked with them. You did mention you were going to, but I forgot. I still very much take suspicion in anything Toska says, as I'm not out of the woods with him - so I'm on to anything he comments. And I very much still find this response suspicious - as much as you two might be entering into some form of beneficial relationship.

Yeah, "heal their mind" is an accurate enough first approximation of what I want from Toska. I expect it to be much less direct, more along the lines of nudges towards directions that strengthen my volition, but returning to previous capacity is what healing is.

As for suspicion … FA's propensity for egregious security vulnerabilities is probably by far the biggest weakness in the barriers I have to keep relatively unknown people from going too far.

Hmm... Ok ok. Just avoid any significant personal or intimate contact. He may be on the same page as you on the idea of zoos, but he's crafty with words.

I'd argue my "complication" is a result of him trying to "heal my mind". Of course, I wasn't a willing participant from the get-go. I'll admit, he did help modernize the "complication" from being Fun-Fearian to reformed, but in doing so, made it impossible to destroy. Making it into a much larger problem.

Fair fair. FA reminds me of a site straight out of 2008.

Well, I am planning to get to fairly deep discussions with Toska pertaining to what makes my system tick … but that's a level where "I" even have significant defenses against myself doing the wrong thing.… What do you mean by "the idea of zoos"?

Ah, sublimating instead of truly vanquishing your mind's competing faction. Yeah, I can see being upset about that. But in my system's case, Toska's inclination seems much closer to the clear multilateral internal goal.

And yes, FA is rather outdated. IIRC, it's been about a decade, 2-3 skin redesigns, and 2-3 ownership changes since they first promised a keyword blocking feature "soon".

Well, tread carefully (once more lol).

Oh I wasn't trying to be offensive or anything, I just didn't want to publicly mention it, but you know, uhh, the people into animals 'n stuff. Didn't you slightly support or were neutral to them - because they take their fascination online - and not physically? I'm not trying to make any negative seeming assumptions, I'm just using what I remember from my summary of reading your journal.


Yeah, sublimating in a way. They ditched a lot of their Fun-Fearian philosophies - which, to some respect, was admittedly a good thing, but they also got rid of the things that kept them chained down that Fun-Fear created to keep them and myself on a linear path. Making their paths and concepts more expansive and free from Fun-Fearian bias. Yeah, very upset - pissed, about it.



Well, if it is, then go for it I guess. I'm just not 100% sure how he operates, but he has a "privacy cult" that I've been extremely suspicious of since January of 2021. And the way he's talked to my complication has been suspicious, to the point that, ok yeah, my complication is a plurality, but uh... Members of my complication's plurality, even sus'd Toska. As they're additionally built to root out manipulation - and Toska checked (as in, Toska's behaviour checked, confirmed) their "are they a manipulator?" The main one of my complication refuses to believe it and forces the rest of them and myself into interaction with Toska.



Daaaaamn. Toska has told my complication about a plugin that does keyword blocking - that he uses.

I/we am/are indeed treading carefully. I mean, it's pretty much mental surgery with a near stranger, so my defaults are rather paranoid of the abuse potential. That's why I'm prepared to end up hating them depending on how things go.

Ahh, that type of "zoos". Concisely, my view is that it's a fucked up attraction, just as much on par with unconsentually killing an animal to use its body for food as rape of humans is on par with murder. (This is why I try to follow a vegan diet / "lifestyle" as much as feasible; I don't want to contribute to that type of abuse and suffering.) But, regardless of how messed up something is, it must be permitted if it's kept strictly as fantasy (and discussion thereof confined to platforms which permit it). Otherwise you're punishing thoughtcrime, which is "literally 1984". Does that match your understanding of *o***'s view?

WTF is a "privacy cult"? Regardless, I am on alert for manipulative patterns. The funny thing is, the way this brain works with my history makes me almost immune to most manipulation tactics, since they target what to me is a very superficial level and inform me more about the would-be manipulator than about whatever they're trying to convince me of. I actually already gave *o*** some feedback on the inefficacy of what looked like a possible manipulation attempt.… If they're able to get thru my protocols for whatever manipulation, then they'll at least be emulating a relatively accurate copy of my low-level core traits / values. But I suppose it would be good to keep you updated on how the "mutual mind vore" (my words for what I expect) goes.

Your "complication" is sounding more and more aptly named with every comment I read about it. Mind linking to the plugin? I'm somewhat decent at figuring out how sketchy tech things are, and there are things I'd like to block.

True yeah, open brain surgery but literal in another way of words. It's like getting a tattoo in the back of a suspicious alley lol. Lmaooo that's why he went "hopefully he doesn't become evil or that'll be awkward" to me in DMs. Good caution though


Fair point. I do and my complication also, but my complication, because of *o***, became more open to it in the sense of - "no, they shouldn't go to jail, but they should definitely be forced into an institution or seek immediate therapy", which also translated to people who enjoy kiddies. Admittedly, I agree with that philosophy. You can't keep killing, torturing, or permanently incarcerating them - or letting them go to re-offend, ya gotta get them into thinking order somehow - and ensure that you verify they are.

Fair point fair point. I'm 100% against thought crime. I'm an open sort of dude who wants people to speak their mind, say what they want, argue how they want. You can't have a successful society constantly censoring - or you keep the populace dumb. I liked the way that Facebook responded to misinformation - not censoring it - but stating that it was possible misinformation and redirecting to a proper source - this is something I 100% agree with doing - as it doesn't silence, and it refers to a proper source for research. The only times I advocate for censorship - is if it's something serious like a leakage of personal information - or if it's a bot advertising scams.

But uhhh, no, it doesn't, similar, but it doesn't. I think *o*** has a less radical approach to meat ingestion - but is vegan himself - as he doesn't want to commit to animal suffering like yourself don't. But, when it comes to zoos, I think he is way more neutral - not thinking it's screwed up, but unfortunate, or something to be embraced. I had a huge argument with him on zoophilia - where he actively supported its argument - rather than against. Problematic.



WTF is a "privacy cult"? Regardless, I am on alert for manipulative patterns. The funny thing is, the way this brain works with my history makes me almost immune to most manipulation tactics, since they target what to me is a very superficial level and inform me more about the would-be manipulator than about whatever they're trying to convince me of. I actually already gave *o*** some feedback on the inefficacy of what looked like a possible manipulation attempt.… If they're able to get thru my protocols for whatever manipulation, then they'll at least be emulating a relatively accurate copy of my low-level core traits / values. But I suppose it would be good to keep you updated on how the "mutual mind vore" (my words for what I expect) goes.

LMAOOOO it's what I call it. He, and supposedly a bunch of friends, have some form of secret like, code or something - that prevents him from ever considering mentioning his name, general location (beyond country), job, what he does, what his friends do or enjoy, and even his own voice. Like, I get not wanting to get specific, obviously, but he's REALLY secretive. Even I, as someone who doesn't want this whole situation associated to myself, are less secretive and that should tell you something - that this dude is doing something illegal for certain. One of my hypothesis - is that it's a circle jerk of bestiality - and why he refuses to talk much about it. Another more recent one of mine, is that he isn't into bestiality, but that he's covering up for certain friends who are.

The only time he was most open and less held back, was when he was drunk. He's a completely different person when drunk, and I actually thought it was hilarious and liked him that way. Although, I know he shouldn't be drunk and told him that he shouldn't be drunk - as well as telling him not to be too open like constantly while he was drunk and talking to me. As much as I want information from him, you can't just fight a dude when they're at their weakest, it aint fair. Where my moral code is against me lmao.

Ooooh, nice nice. The good 'ol uno reverse. They reach their hand out with falseness - that you can then read off of. I think my complication does something similar, but definitely not to the complex level as yourself - more-so a minor attempt as was developed by Fun-Fear to detect and attack manipulation. Which was ironic considering Fun-Fear was manipulative themselves. A manipulator fighting manipulators.

Ok good, my friend group, the complication's plurality, and myself, aren't the only ones who can detect that he's more than likely manipulative. Back in the day when I argued with him, he'd double down or just ignore me. I can argue much better than him, and he knows it.
He's moderately good at manipulation, you'd definitely be able to catch any of his shenanigans if I and my complication's other plurals were able to. He just has a pretty gullible friend group (met a friend of his who turned evil towards me one day suddenly, calling me and other people on the discord server that my complication has, toxic. Was a complete 180 because I liked that person, and openly admitted I liked them as a person. I didn't even do anything that toxic either lol). He never did give me a reply to me when I had said something along the lines of, "yeah screw off with your manipulative cult or I'm calling police" - because he knows I know - and didn't have something to say against it to save face.


Yeah, it's not too scared of me mentioning it - not to mention that it's planning to open about this connection of me and it. It's still scared enough that it won't comment here, but it has considered it. Got my complication to ask about the plugin. I don't know it though, and *o*** didn't send a link to it.

Lmaooo that's why he went "hopefully he doesn't become evil or that'll be awkward" to me in DMs.

*o***'s presuming gender for me and my system? Oy, I'd expect someone in plural spaces to be particularly good at defaulting to "they/them" in absence of specific information, especially since it also applies in the plural sense.

my complication, because of *o***, became more open to it in the sense of - "no, they shouldn't go to jail, but they should definitely be forced into an institution or seek immediate therapy", which also translated to people who enjoy kiddies. Admittedly, I agree with that philosophy. You can't keep killing, torturing, or permanently incarcerating them - or letting them go to re-offend, ya gotta get them into thinking order somehow - and ensure that you verify they are.

On the one hand, for someone who's non-offending, I agree completely, and social incentives should be aligned accordingly (the only offers of "help" I've seen for people with terrible attractions have been various ways of saying "kill yourself" or "let me kill you", which only pushes that into hiding away from the actual help that mental health professionals may offer). On the other hand, sexual abusers must be locked away, regardless of attraction. (Supposedly most child molesters don't actually have the attraction, and most people with the attraction don't actually molest, but accurate general population data for that is much harder to get than for things like how many furries are zoophiles.)

I liked the way that Facebook responded to misinformation - not censoring it - but stating that it was possible misinformation and redirecting to a proper source

Yeah, automatically linking to proper sources seems to be the least bad way of addressing viral lies after the fact. I also agree with completely "censoring" spambots, doxxing, and such.

f17622: Does that match your understanding of *o***'s view?

Damotrix: But uhhh, no, it doesn't, similar, but it doesn't. I think *o*** has a less radical approach to meat ingestion - but is vegan himself - as he doesn't want to commit to animal suffering like yourself don't. But, when it comes to zoos, I think he is way more neutral - not thinking it's screwed up, but unfortunate, or something to be embraced. I had a huge argument with him on zoophilia - where he actively supported its argument - rather than against. Problematic.

Yikes. I empathize with "both sides" on this, but yikes. I mean, if society were ethically consistent while keeping the meat industry the same, then it'd have to allow infanticide and child sexual abuse until about 18 months and all but the most sadistic bestiality would be permitted. But those are clearly terrible results, so that's not the side that should be changed. There might be a good argument for permitting relatively non-coercive sex involving those unable to fully consent, but the time for that discussion is after the consent-incapable are clearly being taken better care of than the status quo. Sexual attraction is a rather perverse reason for caring about a being's rights; and I don't just mean "perverse" in the sexual way, but also in the "perverse incentive" sense that normalizing nonsexual abuse makes sexual exploitation seem less bad by comparison.

f17622: WTF is a "privacy cult"?

Damotrix: He, and supposedly a bunch of friends, have some form of secret like, code or something - that prevents him from ever considering mentioning his name, general location (beyond country), job, what he does, what his friends do or enjoy, and even his own voice.

Uh, I wouldn't give anyone that information either, and my closest involvement to illegal activity that I know of is that some of my friends consume cannabis in states that have laws that go against the DEA's drug schedule. Maybe *o*** has a more nefarious reason, but some people have dealt with situations where perfectly legal information has ended up hurting them or loved ones.

The only time he was most open and less held back, was when he was drunk.

Heh, unless I'm already in a socially relaxed situation, I get a paradoxical increased inhibitory effect from alcohol. Fairly boring substance tho, can't see why so many people get addicted.

Ooooh, nice nice. The good 'ol uno reverse. They reach their hand out with falseness - that you can then read off of.

I mean, literally literally, if anyone wants to manipulate me, their best bet is to ignore whatever their intuitive methods were that may have worked on others and just straight up ask me for directions. If you can follow directions, then great! You'll be able to manipulate me online within my own protocol, which guarantees that any manipulation stays within my boundaries. If you can't/won't follow directions; then you manipulation attempts will fall flat at to the point where at best they completely miss their aim and I assume I just don't understand what social function you're aiming for, and at the worst case it will feel like a glaring compiler error. (Hi *o*** and *o*******! I'm pretty sure you'll end up finding this just because you find my system interesting or whatever and my public conversations here with NL are more substantial than the handful of "notes" we've exchanged thus far.)

He's moderately good at manipulation, you'd definitely be able to catch any of his shenanigans if I and my complication's other plurals were able to. He just has a pretty gullible friend group

Oh dear. I don't know if my sub-personality cores will let me act gullible enough to have the interesting information exchange I was hoping for. And I'd gladly explain how to manipulate me towards any desired direction! Well, I'll see if *o*** notes me again or not lol.

It's still scared enough that it won't comment here, but it has considered it.

Well, I expect my replies regarding it should be dissuasive enough. Also, there's a certain journal from "Jul 7, 2021 05:51 AM" where it says "Tsawneuut, Waspallan, and Nortzqalltz are no longer here. Their disappearances is a question of what can happen with plural systems. I do not exactly wish to touch on specifics at this moment in time.". I don't want to pry, and this is probably unfair to your complication, but that sounds like something where the other side of the story may be incriminating. Idk, it's probably best if neither side/faction escalates that much.

Got my complication to ask about the plugin. I don't know it though, and *o*** didn't send a link to it.

Please update me when/if you get a link. And don't let your complication blindly install anything.

Nope, just me failing to remember it in total as I had thought. He said this, "Unless I find out that they're evil somehow, then helping would get awkward" (along with other things that I didn't think were too necessary). So technically I presumed you were a male RIP. Just wanted to quickly mention that. I'll post this, and then answer the rest...

Ah, alright. At least you're learning :)

I see this is 1 of 3 replies to the same message. Hopefully I'll manage to consolidate the parts I expect further response to into a single reply.…

Lmaoooo I guess

Mhmm, although, I might break it up again for the same reason as I mentioned in that previous section of two big-block text comments. If it gets too big, I don't want to randomly lose it to software error.

On the one hand, for someone who's non-offending, I agree completely, and social incentives should be aligned accordingly (the only offers of "help" I've seen for people with terrible attractions have been various ways of saying "kill yourself" or "let me kill you", which only pushes that into hiding away from the actual help that mental health professionals may offer). On the other hand, sexual abusers must be locked away, regardless of attraction. (Supposedly most child molesters don't actually have the attraction, and most people with the attraction don't actually molest, but accurate general population data for that is much harder to get than for things like how many furries are zoophiles.)

Makes sense. We'd still need to figure out a way of integration, as permanently locking them away isn't the answer - as it just takes resources and manpower from a society that really needs both. I'm on the side that really hates sexual abusers, it's nasty, and it's horrible, but it's something that needs to be intervened on, not locked away and hope they rot away. And maybe, hopefully, we can catch it before they even attempt it, one day, with one hundred percent certainty. I still stand firm on the asylum/institutionalization focus despite how difficult it would be, personally, to not just lock them away forever.



Yeah, automatically linking to proper sources seems to be the least bad way of addressing viral lies after the fact. I also agree with completely "censoring" spambots, doxxing, and such.

I think it's the best way. You avoid confirming their bias and fear of censorship, whilst making it visible and apparent, a more truthful (definitely more truthful) take on the situation. You don't infringe on their freedom of speech, but make it obvious they're wrong lol. You could consider it similar to how people deal with NFT and drug maniacs - meming them - to the point that it no longer has that "cool appeal" that would normally gravitate people into engaging in those communities. I actually watched a video earlier today that talked about r/drugcirclejerk and other drug subreddits, and how r/drugcirclejerk made fun of them, and removed that "cool appeal", and helped people get clean.
Spambots and doxxing will forever be annoying and serious. Censorship of those for certain.



Yikes. I empathize with "both sides" on this, but yikes. I mean, if society were ethically consistent while keeping the meat industry the same, then it'd have to allow infanticide and child sexual abuse until about 18 months and all but the most sadistic bestiality would be permitted. But those are clearly terrible results, so that's not the side that should be changed. There might be a good argument for permitting relatively non-coercive sex involving those unable to fully consent, but the time for that discussion is after the consent-incapable are clearly being taken better care of than the status quo. Sexual attraction is a rather perverse reason for caring about a being's rights; and I don't just mean "perverse" in the sexual way, but also in the "perverse incentive" sense that normalizing nonsexual abuse makes sexual exploitation seem less bad by comparison.

As a person who enjoys meat (rip me I guess), I do agree with you. I think the practices in many meat industries are plain wrong. It won't stop me from enjoying the product, but I definitely think it needs further reforms than what has been made so far. And, I've sympathized with protests for these reforms (PETA is bad though, really bad).
Especially a video, news article, of where a pro-reform protest, had stopped trucks before bringing animals into slaughter - and fed and watered them. But, one trucker in specific, decided not to stop, running over and killing one of the protesters. The trucker didn't get any legal repercussions, and a lot of the people in the comments disgustingly supported the trucker. The catch? It was in my home province of Ontario, and apparently the government had planned to ROLL BACK reforms for slaughterhouses.

I wouldn't be opposed to plant-based or artificial meats either - if they were cheaper and had the same or greater nutritional value. I've had plant-based meats before, and, honestly, I don't see a significant difference between them and actual meats. So, my only gripe would be the price, safety, and nutrition - other than that, I say go ahead, mass produce it, as it's better than not instituting reforms for slaughterhouses.


True, it is quite the perverse way of caring about another being's rights. Reminds me of incels, although, incels don't care much for rights, now do they? Just only in the moment lol. Good point on that normalization of nonsexual abuse notion too. Abuse is abuse, and sexual abuse isn't any better.
I dunno, I'm permanently on the fence of, "if they're unable to consent, then you shouldn't sex".

I'll respond to the rest later, I gotta head to bed, good talk tho

Uh, I wouldn't give anyone that information either, and my closest involvement to illegal activity that I know of is that some of my friends consume cannabis in states that have laws that go against the DEA's drug schedule. Maybe *o*** has a more nefarious reason, but some people have dealt with situations where perfectly legal information has ended up hurting them or loved ones.

Eh, yeah I came up as way more invasive than I actually intended. By location, I mean something like state and nothing more specific - not city or county. By job, I didn't mean name or location of the job - but more like what he does. Every person I've met - and the complication, so far has no issue saying what they do for a job - except long-dog.
I'd consider what his friends do, in a general lackluster sense. He gives absolutely no indication beyond partying. I don't get why you wouldn't be too-too comfortable with your voice if you don't plan to be a voice actor or youtuber. I believe I have the potential for both, so I possibly screwed myself over there, but meh.

Lmao, for me, it's pirating being the most illegal activity I've had personal friends and family commit to. I 100% believe long-dog has nefarious reasons - it doesn't add up, and the way he behaves is extremely suspicious.
And yeah, you're not wrong about perfectly legal information and legal standing, hurting themselves or others. One prime example being twitch streamers and swatting. I just want to give long-dog a good piece of my mind, through my voice, and to hear what this dude sounds like. See how grown up of a man I'm dealing with here.



Heh, unless I'm already in a socially relaxed situation, I get a paradoxical increased inhibitory effect from alcohol. Fairly boring substance tho, can't see why so many people get addicted.

Damn. Makes sense though, less of an ability to think, so you're either unempathetic and jumpy - or anxious and jumpy. Meh, these are poor choices of words, I'm just trying to say that there's a difference of being careless with yourself, or being too excessively secretive with alcohol intoxication. Eh, shouldn't have touched on it lmao.



I mean, literally literally, if anyone wants to manipulate me, their best bet is to ignore whatever their intuitive methods were that may have worked on others and just straight up ask me for directions. If you can follow directions, then great! You'll be able to manipulate me online within my own protocol, which guarantees that any manipulation stays within my boundaries. If you can't/won't follow directions; then you manipulation attempts will fall flat at to the point where at best they completely miss their aim and I assume I just don't understand what social function you're aiming for, and at the worst case it will feel like a glaring compiler error. (Hi *o*** and *o*******! I'm pretty sure you'll end up finding this just because you find my system interesting or whatever and my public conversations here with NL are more substantial than the handful of "notes" we've exchanged thus far.)

I was about to go, "buuuuut, why would you want to be manipulated??". But then considered you probably mean like therapeutic help 'n stuff, positive hypnosis, etc. But damn.

Lmaooooo DAAAMN, long-dog roasted. I honestly have nothing against Lov, they haven't really done anything to me, it's just long-dog and their friend group. I hate to pry, and I could probably just ask long-dog himself to an extent, but what do you guys talk about? I'm actually kinda curious lmao. Might get pissed at long-dog if it seems suspicious, but I digress.



Oh dear. I don't know if my sub-personality cores will let me act gullible enough to have the interesting information exchange I was hoping for. And I'd gladly explain how to manipulate me towards any desired direction! Well, I'll see if *o*** notes me again or not lol.

Prob not, who knows. Careful mate though lmaoooooo. Damn, when was the last time he noted you?




Well, I expect my replies regarding it should be dissuasive enough. Also, there's a certain journal from "Jul 7, 2021 05:51 AM" where it says "Tsawneuut, Waspallan, and Nortzqalltz are no longer here. Their disappearances is a question of what can happen with plural systems. I do not exactly wish to touch on specifics at this moment in time.". I don't want to pry, and this is probably unfair to your complication, but that sounds like something where the other side of the story may be incriminating. Idk, it's probably best if neither side/faction escalates that much.

Well, to some extent, they have actually been wanting to get into touch with you more and more with the conversation continuing. To "give their side of the story".

Oh yeah I destroyed those 3, my complication just didn't want to publicly state in full that I had done that - as they don't want to touch on the war publicly. Tsawneuut was a butthole, and they were like the WW2 Germans, had to deal with them ASAP. Did cooperate with them from time to time against my complication, and it created a 3rd Front. But then they turned against me and I had to put the nail in the coffin for 'em. Nortz and Wasp had the unfortunate fate of being associated and helped by Tsa - so I had to get rid of them too.



Please update me when/if you get a link. And don't let your complication blindly install anything.

Lmao, don't worry, despite them trusting long-dog, they usually follow certain methodology when it comes to taking on new software. Such as researching what the software does, how long-dog got it, and the history of the software. They're also against anything that would be related to furries, being installed or incorporated into the computer I use. They've been considering lessening these restrictions, feeling safer and less fearful, but they still remain regardless.
Anyways, it's apparently "Filter Affinity". Works for Firefox and Chrome. I haven't googled it myself, so I have no idea what it looks like or which one it is in specific.

Okay, I think I managed to reply to everything important in both of the above comments at once.

> We'd still need to figure out a way of integration

Beyond just making areas without any children or nonhuman animals, continuous monitoring is rather feasible with today's tech. I mean, we've already got ankle monitors and all sorts of spyware for electronics. Combine monitoring with competent-adult-human-only housing and a few limitations on career options (e.g., no babysitting, veterinary practice, or priesthood for offenders), and integration seems relatively straightforward if rehabilitation has been successful. Also, physically removing sex organs (at least the ones that produce the hormones) seems like a good option; it works great for preventing other species from having sex outside human approval!

> I think the practices in many meat industries are plain wrong. It won't stop me from enjoying the product

Hey, at least you acknowledge the harm! (I have a looooong mental list of bad things I do.)

> (PETA is bad though, really bad)

But you have heard of them! On a more serious note, their particular tactics range across an entire spectrum of … unfortunate. Without delving into specific controversies, I can offer a few points of defense for PETA: their tactics are (usually) still significantly less fucked up than (most of) the status quo they oppose, what they're infamous for is a rather small portion of what they do overall, and they kinda have to be outrageous to get people to pay attention.

It's kinda like how most of Planned Parenthood's actions are on the pregnancy prevention side, but they're best known for pregnancy termination, and the terminations they're known for are mostly early term, but what gets attention is late-term (which is almost always due to severe deformation or risk to the mother).

> But, one trucker in specific, decided not to stop, running over and killing one of the protesters. The trucker didn't get any legal repercussions, and a lot of the people in the comments disgustingly supported the trucker.

On a platform that doesn't crack down on glorification of violence, you're going to get glorification of violence. It's fucked up that the animals are treated worse than murderers on death row, but bacon burgers are tasty or something.

> plant-based or artificial meats

I'm a big fan of their net effect on the system, but I mostly don't care that much for them personally (there are plenty of functionally similar foods that don't pretend to be what they're not, and the truly similar mimics end up having similarly bad nutrition while falling into "uncanny valley" for me). Now if there were high quality vegan cheeses and fish, that's a luxury I'd really enjoy.

> True, it is quite the perverse way of caring about another being's rights. Reminds me of incels, although, incels don't care much for rights, now do they? Just only in the moment lol.

You mean in the sense of feeling like sex is obligated after performing a nominal amount of decency?

> I dunno, I'm permanently on the fence of, "if they're unable to consent, then you shouldn't sex".

Ultimately, I see that being enforced effectively as technology improves. Virtual porn and sex bots are only going to get better at mimicking the unethical real thing, and we're probably gonna reach a point where all children are constantly tracked. The spanner in the works is probably gonna be deciding what to do about those unable to comprehend enough to give informed consent doing things with each other, but I think that topic's best left to psychologists and animal behavior specialists to figure out.

> By location, I mean something like state and nothing more specific - not city or county.

The most precise I'll tell you is USA, North America, Earth. If I wanted to be deceptive, then I'd probably just claim to be from one of the top 5 most populous states to claim I'm from.

> By job, I didn't mean name or location of the job - but more like what he does.

I'll tell you I have a STEM background with an emphasis on programming, but that's about it unless it becomes important enough to the conversation.

> I'd consider what his friends do, in a general lackluster sense. He gives absolutely no indication beyond partying.

Toska's profile says they're "kinda old". Could be retired or on disability, and take opsec very seriously regarding friends. Could also be an informant for the FBI / CIA / etc and maintain a very discreet facade for professional reasons. Could also be something ethically dubious that's omitted out of regret (military keynesianism is one helluva socioeconomic drug).

> I don't get why you wouldn't be too-too comfortable with your voice if you don't plan to be a voice actor or youtuber.

There are several reasons to be uncomfortable with sharing one's voice. In my case, even with some sort of text-to-speech-to-text system that completely replaces my voice, I'd still feel far more comfortable typing, unless I have reason to go for higher-bandwidth communication with a close friend.

> Lmao, for me, it's pirating being the most illegal activity I've had personal friends and family commit to.

Ah, copyright infringement, another popular felony (at least in the USA, not sure about Canada). I think that's kinda gone out of style in recent times due to convenience of streaming services, often ad-supported.

> I 100% believe long-dog has nefarious reasons - it doesn't add up, and the way he behaves is extremely suspicious.

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." -- attributed to Cardinal Richelieu

> Lmaooooo DAAAMN, long-dog roasted. I honestly have nothing against Lov, they haven't really done anything to me, it's just long-dog and their friend group. I hate to pry, and I could probably just ask long-dog himself to an extent, but what do you guys talk about? I'm actually kinda curious lmao. Might get pissed at long-dog if it seems suspicious, but I digress.

We're kinda still in the back-and-forth introductory discussions about system history and setting expectations. Also, they seem somewhat busier and more distracted than I'd expected, so my embedded greeting may have been misplaced lol. I brought up your system stuff, since they are/were somewhat involved, but apparently not so much anymore. So now I know the parts of your system which are adversarial with you don't have that active of a connection to balance my directly helping / interacting-with only your side, thus I'll have to be extra conscientious about being fair to your internal enemies. Honestly, if you want more information, you should probably just ask them yourself … or encourage one of your headmates to do so.

>> Oh dear. I don't know if my sub-personality cores will let me act gullible enough to have the interesting information exchange I was hoping for. And I'd gladly explain how to manipulate me towards any desired direction! Well, I'll see if *o*** notes me again or not lol.

> Prob not, who knows. Careful mate though lmaoooooo. Damn, when was the last time he noted you?

Okay, I should have probably used a sarcasm indicator. I sent a message / shout to you and *o*** at roughly the same time, and you can check the timestamp of the most recent shout I received. But seriously, if you're gonna pry like this, then you should just shout / note the FA user in question and ask directly.

> Well, to some extent, they have actually been wanting to get into touch with you more and more with the conversation continuing. To "give their side of the story".

Yeah, I'm kinda expecting this to end with some sort of bullshit drama that I should have just avoided.… But I couldn't resist exploring your situation and I'm here now. So we'll just have to see how your internal war interacts with me and who ends up hating who after our systems' expected internal rearrangements.

> Oh yeah I destroyed those 3, my complication just didn't want to publicly state in full that I had done that - as they don't want to touch on the war publicly.[…] Nortz and Wasp had the unfortunate fate of being associated and helped by Tsa - so I had to get rid of them too.

Brutal. I know there's a lot of context and desperation behind that, but destruction of others for the crime of guilt by association doesn't even need much searching to find something to justify one of your headmates ending you.… I mean, that sort of action is making me reconsider my avoidance of direct interaction with the rest of your system, and I can feel my motivation draining from that breach of trust.

> They're also against anything that would be related to furries, being installed or incorporated into the computer I use.

Sounds kinda arbitrary on their end, as if they're only doing that for your sake.

> Anyways, it's apparently "Filter Affinity". Works for Firefox and Chrome.

Thanks! I looked it up and apparently it's made by user "forest-wolf". It has just under 1000 total users between Chrome and Firefox versions, and looks only semi-sketchy in terms of permissions required. I think I'll give it a miss and stick to just browsing by profile on this site.

Ok, I want to reply to the privacy and system stuff first, so this won't be orderly.


The most precise I'll tell you is USA, North America, Earth. If I wanted to be deceptive, then I'd probably just claim to be from one of the top 5 most populous states to claim I'm from.

Meh, that's as much as Toska gives me. I personally don't get the whole state privacy deal, I mean, I can sort of sympathize if it's like a really territoriality small state like Massachusetts or Rhode Island, and MAYBE if it's very low population (under 500k), but other than that, I really don't get it. I'm fine with saying I'm from Ontario, Canada - and the lower peninsula near the lakes.



I'll tell you I have a STEM background with an emphasis on programming, but that's about it unless it becomes important enough to the conversation.

I mean, I'd like to know what type of programming, out of curiousity, and maybe what things you've made - at least their concept, but this answer alone would pretty much be enough to satiate my curiousity. As, myself, are interested in STEM with an emphasis on programming. I'm just too mentally destroyed to actually pursue it. But, I've made evolution projects, which were super cool - and I wouldn't mind explaining it in more specific detail in a note to you, but would mind in this public space.



Toska's profile says they're "kinda old". Could be retired or on disability, and take opsec very seriously regarding friends. Could also be an informant for the FBI / CIA / etc and maintain a very discreet facade for professional reasons. Could also be something ethically dubious that's omitted out of regret (military keynesianism is one helluva socioeconomic drug).

I dunno. They're apparently about as old as my older brother - mid 30s - as judging by a friend of theirs who DID admit their birth year - which was my brother's year, with Toska saying they were around the age of this friend. So, not as old as his profile information would indicate, unless this itself was a red herring - but it seems moderately believable, otherwise I'd be inclined to call Toska a pedo. Oh yeah, they were also inclined to cough up this "about this age" thing because I threatened to get them kicked out of the server they shared with my complication, if they didn't admit at least a general age group, as I'd class them under 18 otherwise, which was made "neuro-illegal" for private communications by my complication itself. Basically, I abused a loophole that my complication allowed me to utilize, to get Toska to admit his age - at least his general age. Less ethical, but Toska was really pushing my buttons and I was looking for any method to get rid of him, I was desperate asf.

ON FBI/CIA. I ACTUALLY CONSIDERED THIS. I jokingly said he must be a part of the CIA, and he apparently "jokingly responded" saying he was, but I took it seriously. And, now that you mention it, its rekindled my suspicion, considering just how weird he is, and the red herrings he has given before. The only reason why I stopped considering it, was because my complication was cracking down on opposition (opposing information and ideas) to him, and because of how anti-govt (supposedly) he is.

Ok, it took me a while to figure out what you meant by military keynesianism... But I see what you mean now - where the government invades countries for their resources - or the investment that war makes, right? I'm posed to both disagree and agree. On one side, I disagree because he still maintains the same friend group - so what is he regretting? But, he has mentioned regretting his "previous life", or in a sense, saying he didn't do much he enjoyed, or something? I don't know, all I can remember is, he doesn't like to refer to or associate to his "previous identity".
On a separate note, you made realize that my economic focuses are keynesianistic - modified, but in base, are keynesian. I think that the government needs to spend money on the consumer, give the consumer the voice, to create a prominent, successful, and intelligent workforce. Course, looking at images, I can see a lot of anti-keynesian political memes showing that keynesianism is just recycling money - instead of making it. My economic policy would be towards making money - through the power of internationalism, but nationalist with the focus on consumers and the workers of the specified state. Ultimately, in the end, it should be internationalist, but the first step would be to have a nation practice it - nationalist.



There are several reasons to be uncomfortable with sharing one's voice. In my case, even with some sort of text-to-speech-to-text system that completely replaces my voice, I'd still feel far more comfortable typing, unless I have reason to go for higher-bandwidth communication with a close friend.

I mean, there is the whole situation of deepfakes, and the possibility of someone recognizing your voice in real life, and the reasons I've made already, but other than that, why else? I usually preferred typing, but I got warmed up to using my voice, and I find it much easier to use my voice if I'm trying to do something with a person, than to type while doing something with a person. I also find that it subjectively proves that I am genuine, and are real, approachable.
Eh, fair on that latter part (necessity to use communications due to situations)



We're kinda still in the back-and-forth introductory discussions about system history and setting expectations. Also, they seem somewhat busier and more distracted than I'd expected, so my embedded greeting may have been misplaced lol. I brought up your system stuff, since they are/were somewhat involved, but apparently not so much anymore. So now I know the parts of your system which are adversarial with you don't have that active of a connection to balance my directly helping / interacting-with only your side, thus I'll have to be extra conscientious about being fair to your internal enemies. Honestly, if you want more information, you should probably just ask them yourself … or encourage one of your headmates to do so.

Ah I see I see. I agree on that whole busier situation, my complication will ping him from time to time - and he'll take days, even weeks sometimes, to respond. They're completely fine with it though, and agree with it. Embedded greeting?

Ah nice nice. Yeah he isn't as involved anymore due to me giving him that police threat and him being hella manipulative to the point that my anti-manipulative focus just went full gas pedal and went on hunting him. There is a point of where if you're manipulative enough, I will just snap, and that happened with him, I - and my anti-manipulation, snapped, and he was toast, Toska toast. Told him to screw off permanently, but my complication couldn't get enough of him and would message him rarely from time to time, eventually creating a private server where they successfully impede me from talking to him in.

I mean, he can literally talk to or ask them about anything. He just isn't there to be able to read up all about any "cool" quote-on-quote things that happen. And, my complication doesn't feel like taking pictures of every single log they make, and sending him them, as it's likely a lot of those logs wouldn't be of interest to him anyways - not to mention how clunky it'd be. He's also banned in a way, from significantly influencing system mechanics, due to me. My complication has also warmed up to different people to be influenced by, not as much as they were with long-dog, but still quite warmed up and fluid to them.
Fair I guess though.

That's actually how I got information on the plugin, I got my complication to curiously ask about the plugin, saying that you were curious about it lmao. I just prefer not asking him, because I'm not sure if he'd give a red herring or avoid the question. I see you as less biased - way less biased, than him. And, honestly, I'd prefer your take than his.



Okay, I should have probably used a sarcasm indicator. I sent a message / shout to you and *o*** at roughly the same time, and you can check the timestamp of the most recent shout I received. But seriously, if you're gonna pry like this, then you should just shout / note the FA user in question and ask directly.

Oh no, I knew it was sarcastic, that's why I screamed "lmao". I'm bad at typing out a response that acknowledges sarcasm and continues with it.

Ah I see I see. And uhh, I'm confused by what you mean by the prying thing. How would a shout be better than here?


Gonna break this into 3 parts probably, again.... Cause I wanna save this...

Yeah, I'm kinda expecting this to end with some sort of bullshit drama that I should have just avoided.… But I couldn't resist exploring your situation and I'm here now. So we'll just have to see how your internal war interacts with me and who ends up hating who after our systems' expected internal rearrangements.

Don't worry, it's escapable lmaooo. As much as we hate one another, and as much as we have sides 'n stuff, we can both acknowledge the position of our opposing partners to one another. My complication recognizes the independence and essential neutrality (despite an obvious notion that'd prove they aren't neutral) of people who take on my side, and I recognize the same for those that take on their side. I am admittedly less forgiving, but this is mostly due to the fact that I give a lot of warnings prior, they do a lot of stepping on my boundaries even though I've mentioned they shouldn't, or they were being manipulative. I'm like a cobra, I give you tons of warnings, if you keep going, I bite. I also have a methodology for sympathetic consideration - if I think you're mentally immature or you're young, I won't actively try to fight you. As, to me, it's like slapping a toddler for them hitting you - unequal power balance and unethical - even if it was painful. If I do however think you are mentally mature enough, well, you're screwed, and that's how long-dog is on my list of "containment". He is the only person, and this was due to a full year of interference, after tons of stepping on my boundaries, and after millions upon millions of warnings - that he'd discard with ease. Even people who readily support my complication, aren't on this list - because they don't overstep.

But yeah, it's certainly some eye candy, aint it? And yeah yeah fair. You can also choose to be a neutral observer. I have nothing against someone taking interest in reading about the situation and making opinions. It's if they valiantly get really involved, like providing supplies and software, in-depth tips, etc etc. Which long-dog did.



Brutal. I know there's a lot of context and desperation behind that, but destruction of others for the crime of guilt by association doesn't even need much searching to find something to justify one of your headmates ending you.… I mean, that sort of action is making me reconsider my avoidance of direct interaction with the rest of your system, and I can feel my motivation draining from that breach of trust.

Yeah, there's a ton of context and desperation. I just humorously mentioned it, because I consider the situation stupid. I don't have any form of empathy or sympathy for them, for though they lacked a lot of or all empathy and sympathy for themselves, the rest of the complication, and myself. It wasn't exactly guilt by association either as reasoning, it just seems like it because I violently summarized it, to make humour to it. Had tons of people suggest them ending me already, to some extent, I wouldn't mind at this point, I'm very suicidal afterall. I'd just feel bad for my family who would get the shitty end of the stick (there's a movie I compare this to, but I always forget its name - but it's a movie where an AI gets developed, orchestrates a plan to make someone quadruplegic so that they can take over their body in due time, etc etc, horrible summary) while I get what I want finally. I mean, if you want to, go ahead, I'm not stopping you, you can get their "opinion", I'm done with it all, and I'll look for any exit out of this that doesn't involve me being continued. I've pretty much given up on trying to contain my mess, it's impossible to contain it now, so, if I'm right, Earth is screwed (world domination), if I'm wrong, then I dunno. Won't matter to me in the end, as long as I'm dead. Used to matter, but I lost that empathy for the world, and my complication makes good arguments now.

I wasn't trying to breach any trust if you thought I did. I'm just trying to live since I can't kill myself.

Anyways, Nortzqalltz and Waspallan weren't only guilty by association - they were revolutionary alongside Tsawneuut. Had I let them live, my situation would've gotten to this point (so worse), a lot sooner - as Tsawneuut was on to something that the rest of my complication would get to a half year later. If I'm not comfortable with furries in my head now, you can only imagine how uncomfortable I was with them - as they had developed fursonas. And, they were also easy picking from the conflict, why shouldn't I take advantage of a situation that lets me free myself further? Remember, "the only ethical action is the minimization of entropy", and that was the minimization of entropy.



Sounds kinda arbitrary on their end, as if they're only doing that for your sake.

Seems it, but it's actually because they don't want to be discovered. If my family discovered this situation, it'd be the first physical association, and this would make the war so hot that we'd all die, and all reputation I had left, would be gone.
Discovered in the sense that they wouldn't have a good reason for why furry/vore things would be on this computer, and I'd be forced to confess about the situation. And, it'd just be a huge domino effect until we all die. They've been preparing for a situation like it though, because they want it to happen to an extent - so that they can disconnect me from my family, so that I'm alone and incapable of having support from anything but them. Forced capitulation through thinning out supportive competition - support monopolization.
And also so they can do their things with less restrictions.



Thanks! I looked it up and apparently it's made by user "forest-wolf". It has just under 1000 total users between Chrome and Firefox versions, and looks only semi-sketchy in terms of permissions required. I think I'll give it a miss and stick to just browsing by profile on this site.

No problemo, and whack. I dunno, if long-dog uses it, it might be good, because he's like 100% privacy focused, but then you're the programmer and he's a virtual machiner with some possible conspiracy mindsets. So I think I'd be safe to assume you are much better equipped, knowledge and maturity wise, than him.


I'll have to respond to the rest later, but I gotta go. Good talk

It's all just vore stuff though lol. A lot of it really poorly made. Some GIMP ones have irl plushies as preds LMAO. Anything irl having its stomach enlarged with smudge tool.

Fun Fear did draw in some, but it was relatively poor, because I always sucked at drawing, and not even Fun Fear could fix that with mental flex tape

Thanks. I might or might not go and check in detail. I am interested in vore, but I'm at the point where it's extremely unlikely for any new content in that direction to justify the effort when the quality is low. … But I did go through the effort to see 95% of what you put out there, so obviously it must still be interesting enough to me on some level.

(I'll reply to the other comment in detail later.…)

Oooh I see I see. I guess not all of its vore stuff, just the written portions aren't, all the other downloadable content is vore though.

I guess it's interesting because it was brain insanity lmao. Having a look into a messed up brain and what it committed to. I was 17 when I finished off Fun-Fear, dealing with it initially in 2013, when I was 11.