Don't get me wrong, you are a good artist.

But you aren't as good as the prices listed. You need to halve them, at the very least.

My prices equate (in terms of hourly wage) to between minimum wage ($8/hr) and industry standard ($25/hr). Most people feel this is fair.

My previous job as an textbook illustrator I made $1200 a month working part-time hours.

Some people think I'm too expensive, but most people (fellow artists, amateur and professional, as well as clients) think I should be charging approximately what I am presently. A few people think I should be charging twice as much as I already do.

That being said, I am more expensive than some artists, some of which are more talented than I. However, I think it's not so much that I'm overcharging but that they are undercharging. Nowadays, online artists are underselling themselves pretty extremely and in large numbers, and it's led people to believe they shouldn't have to pay more than about $20-100 for a really good piece of art, which isn't really fair.

In any case, I do appreciate your input. However, I'm going to take the middle road - a few individuals such as yourself say I should charge cheaper. A few professional artists (such as Goldenwolf and Hibbary and industry standards) have told me I should charge more for the quality level I do. So I'll just stay in the middle.

http://jocarra.deviantart.com/journal/poll/473388/

Also, no offense taken, and no offense meant. I'm not so much ranting at you as ranting aloud, having been reminded of why I've had difficulties finding a comfortable pricing system.

I mean, I definitely think some artists overcharge (I won't name any names), but it's hard to say how and why and who. Some people I know charge $1000+ for stuff that's about (sometimes more, sometimes less) equivalent in quality to my "detailed" work ( http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2814023 ). I think that's a bit much, but what if they put 100 hours of work into it? What if they include a 10-foot canvas print with it? What if people are constantly offering to pay $2000? Then $1000 seems almost generous.

Art's a weird world.

None taken. We agree that each other has a point, and will respect the others opinion, while keeping our own. :)

I would normally have let this pass without comment, but the more I think about it, the less I'm able to do that.

First off, Jocarra is a fantastic artist. She is detailed, highly responsive, fast and, for the kinds of subtle realism that she specializes in - in a word, amazing. I've been very happy with the piece I commissioned and would do it again in a heartbeat.

But that's not really the reason I felt compelled to respond. What confuses me are a number of comments I've seen to a variety of artists about their prices. An artist should charge what he or she thinks that their work is worth. Art is a very personal thing, and it speaks to different people differently, and artists, like their clients, will value their work differently. Artists, too, have choices to make, about whether they pursue art that's their own passion or art that's commissioned by someone else, and it's these opportunity costs - along with the opportunity costs of spending time with a loved one, or vegging out in front of the TV or computer, or what have you - that you're paying for, not just the creative talent, which even by itself can be significant.

I've watched the ustreams and the sketches and I know that some people can whip out a sketch quickly. Consider an artist at a convention. They might do a quick sketch in a sketchbook in... what, 10 minutes? What's that worth - $5? $10? That's still $30-$60 an hour, which is a decent wage, but hardly what you'd call obscene. If you look at a number of artists, they actually tell you how long it took them ("x hours in OpenCanvas" or "y hours in Photoshop"). Run the numbers. What Jocarra says is true; most artists massively undercharge. Why? Because art isn't just work; they like doing it, so they undersell themselves.

Jocarra may have responded cooly to this statement, which is a further testament to her professionalism, and it's not my intent to come down on you specifically, but this hits my buttons (can you tell?). And I have to say that I'm offended by stuff like this. There was recently an artist here that has over 15,000 watchers and whose every piece draws hundreds of comments and thousands of favorites that opened for two commissions because they were "strapped for cash." This artist took commissions at the ridiculous price of just over $125 for a full color piece. Some people thought the price should have been half that. This is madness. It's like walking into a 4 star restaurant and telling the chef that they should be charging $10 for the entree, or staying in a luxury hotel and wondering why it's costing you more than a twenty.

If we want to encourage high quality art and artists, then we as fans need to wake up to the fact that we should treat the people who make good art as professionals. They don't do commissions for us to please them; they do it as a way to share some of their talent with us and to make a little money in the process. In my opinion, we demean the community and we demean the artist by not paying people what their time and talent and effort are worth.

I'm done ranting now, but I will leave with one other point. As Jocarra points out - people pay these prices. And happily so. If they're too high for you, that's an opinion you're entitled to and you should go commission an artist that charges less and likely doesn't have the self esteem to ask for what he or she is worth. But don't go around and try to devalue someone else's work. All that does is just reinforce the starving artist stereotype and reinforce the view that we should expect great furry art at bargain prices.

Thanks for listening,
-GT

Can I ask why you are being offended by my statement? I've a lot of respect for the well-thought out response given to me by the artist. You have no reason to be offended. It confuses me why you would be.

The artist and I disagree about a point. We are both cordial about it. Neither one of us takes offense to what the other has said.

Of course.

As I said, it's not my intent to make this strictly about your post but around a notion that seems to be increasingly prevalent among the community that artists charge too much for their work. You're absolutely right that Jocarra responded thoughtfully and without offense, and it's also clear to me that you meant no offense in either your original comment or your reply to me, which I very much appreciate.

But perhaps what bothered me about the post isn't just the content (which, as an attitude I believe forces artists in general to charge less than their talents would warrant) but perhaps the tone. I understand that tone is hard to convey in text and that you may not have meant it this way, but saying "you aren't as good as [your] prices" or to extrapolate from your follow-on statement, that you're really about half as good as you think you are, is impolite at best.

I understand that you're expressing a difference of opinion with the artist. I also understand that you might feel you'd get better value from someone else. But I'm offended for the artistic community by the idea that the intrinsic value of art of a certain quality (at least as I'd define quality) is at the level implied by your statements. I don't know you, and you certainly seem to be a reasonable sort; I don't know Jocarra save for the interactions we've had for a commission she did for me; and I'm certainly not an artist myself. But I do know that there are a number of artists here and elsewhere that express angst over asking for $5 or $10 more for pieces that they've spent days slaving over. They put up with commissioners who demand high quality with lightning speed at bargain basement prices. And while that may not have been what you were saying, it struck a nerve with me which found its expression here.

I, for one, want to encourage artists to create better, higher quality anthropomorphic art, and we'll never get there if people believe that the effort that an artist would put into a well-thought, well executed piece is only worth a few bucks. Art may be a labor of love for some of these artists, but they deserve more than just love and admiration for their work.

Jocarra, I saw that SabretoothedErmine posted a very good Pricechart.
Maybe you should do one like that yourself? It's easy to read and shows styles and prices:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2794128/

That's a pretty good idea. I'm always trying to find a better chart. I have one right now that has pretty much all my information on it (including technical stuff like artist/client rights), but my problem is I don't have a clearcut system exactly the way that one is - that is, prices often depend on individual requests. Like... Painting a wolf is different from painting a wolf anthro which is different from painting a wolf anthro fully decked out in armour or elaborate clothing - each one would vary in price because they'd take me different times. Or painting two characters side by side is easier than painting two character sexily entwined in each other.

But for the sake of summary, I could probably make a nice one :) Thanks!