I'm not sure what your point is? If all of the more 'famous' artists on FA took the time to talk to all the 'lesser' artists and teach them how to do things, help them out, etc, they'd have no time for themselves. Everyone wants to be an artists, or at least wishes they could draw well. Nobody has time to go and try to teach everyone how to draw, especially because art is such a personal thing, with people have their own styles and so on. So either way, people are going to be playing favorites. Nobody has time for everyone.

I see what you mean, and understand completely. It gives different idea to different people. It matters how you look at it.

Mainly what i`m saying is, lets say they have A FAQ question and it asks, "Would you like to have a chat, sometime?" or " Its nearing my birthday, may I please have a small piece of gift art ", then they usually say "I`m sorry but, no. I don`t have the time, and I don`t know you personally, so no". But if you happen to be a friend, someone they know 'personally' then you ask that and get this " Sure, I can fit you in, I can draw you a gift { Or some other kind of art. } for your birthday { or some other holiday, ect. }, what would you like? ".

So long story short, If they don`t know you personally, or have a long chat with you, you aren`t getting anything from them!

{ I`m trying to be considerate, so I don`t piss anyone off. }

I don't quite think that's a fair assumption, nor even an accurate one. People ask me for art all the time, but I tend to work 10 hours a day, work even more on making sure Fur Affinity stays running and efficient...

Of all the time I have left, it's mostly "me" time. What art I get done is for myself, gifts for friends of working on (overdue) commissions. Most artists are like me, and only have limited amount of time. It's not so much a "friends get preference" thing as it is there's only so much time in the day, and in their schedule, that they can really only choose to do so much.

Personally, I never, EVER do "birthday" pictures when people ask me because it feels like I'm being guilt-tripped into having to do it. But if I did a birthday picture for every person who asked me, I'd never get ANYTHING done. THere's a lot of birthdays in the year. =P

Oh, i`m sorry If I happened to come across rude. I see, you must have 'me time', it lets you rest, and take a break from a busy day.

Also, i`m not really directing this at anybody, just speaking mainly to the whole art community, not just Fur Affinfity. And I understand the idea of the whole 'Birthday thing ' but that is only an example. I Agree with Zatumushgir she has the main point.

All i`m saying is as she said, They bend over backward for their friends, they try to fit them in there busy day, week, ect.. for a nice gift, or cheap Commission. But, they really aren`t prone to accept new friends, it would get out of control. I understand that.

But, a friend can say " So want to chat? " or " I know you are quite busy, but do you think I can have a small piece of art for my birthday, or to give to my mom/dad/sister/brother/ect.. for a holiday? ". The person might say " I`m quite busy, I can see what I can do, it might take a while though. ".

Now lets say some random person popped up on their page and said the same thing. The artist are really not prone to accept, since they don`t really trust this person. That is another main thing, 'trust'. I can explain further, though I can`t stress my point much more.

I'm usually alwas up for chatting, as well as most people. There's a good trust thing that needs to be earned for a lot of people though.

And yaeah, I Was just basically describing it from POV.

I mean, there are people who are like you, and some of those others that you have spoke of. As said, it is not mainly directed at Fur Affinity, there are many other people on the other art sites, who would dissagree with what you have said. Thats really all i`m saying.

Perhaps the point is that accomplishment is no reason to be aloof or arrogant? If that is the case, I agree.

Actually, I think I might like to know the actual point... ;) (Just so I don't confuse the issue)

Okay, if you haven`t read the reply to the first comment, maybe it can help explain. If that is of no help, I can try to explain it in another way. But, you are also correct, I agree with you completely.

Ok...I just read the first comment, although I did post before it was put up (or perhaps as you were typing it, considering the speed of the additions).

I think I'm seeing what the point is now: the accomplished artists will bend over backwards for their friends, but at the same time are not as prone to making new friends with less accomplished artists. So, basically, the world would be a better place if people stopped judging others on their accomplishments (or lack thereof) and just got to know eachother.

Am I closer this time?

Yes, I think I was still typing wehn you posted your comment. Yes th additions are fast. D: .

Yes, you have my point, exactly. They will do this and that for their friends. But, do not really care for more friend. I guess "The more the merrier" just doesn`t work with them, eh?

I mean if they gave the 'lesser' artists a little more attention, and tried to free up some of their time to get to know more, maybe they might even become close friends. But, as long as they isolate themselves, thats not going to happen.

I'm not sure who you're referring to honestly. I'm good friends with several of the most "famous" artists on FA, mainly because I put forth a little effort. I can't draw for crap, it's not exactly artistic merrit that gained me friends. These people get so many beggers that just want them to draw them free art that they really have to seclude themselves unless someone actually takes the initiative to talk to them, proving they aren't just interested in gaining their art. Which it seems to me you are, when it boils down to it.

I have to agree with you there. I've had people IM me without wanting to talk to me so much as wanting art for me. I might take a request once in a while, but I really do need cash and generally my stuff is commissions.

For my good friends I'll start their commissions before they pay, but that's because I know they'll come through and can trust them to do that.

*shrugs*

This is a very interesting discussion, made doubly so by being able to see both sides of the debate...

*DING* You hit the nail on the head right there, Ben. The reason I don't make many friends is because 90% of the people who randomy IM me are just wanting to cyber or just want free art. Take the last IM I sent to you for example X3 That happens FAR too much for me to just open my arms to anyone who IMs me and shower them in gift art.
I draw for my friends because they're my friends, I could count all my close friends on less than both hands, but they're the few people whom I've contacted first or who haven't come off as creepy fanboy/ greedy whore. I'm always open to having new friends, though, I'm not elitist or anything, but I'm going to want to connect with a potential friend and get to know them before I give them free art.

Yeah, that guy was icky x_x

Most good friends aren't going to ask for free art anyway, because they realize that people have lives and stuff to do :P

Haahaa, I forgot about the one on Y!gallery, I was referring to the one who IMed me and asked if I took requests and never IMed again after I politely said no >3

And I gift the HELL out of my friends when I have the time, mostly through OC *points to your icon*

love this icon, too ;3

I love the rest of the image >3

sssh, we shall'nt be telling them of that >_>

I'm sure everyone ould like to know about your 'sona's.....big accomplishments >3

Ugh, so sorry about the typos, i`m in a cramped place, with a god knows how old keyboard.. The letters are almost rubbed of fully. That is why I miss some letters, or misspell anything.

Ugh, Off* not of D:

I know exactly what you mean, I have actually made a similar post in my blog on MySpace about this same thing (Relatively).

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?f.....80BDD070681005

Basically the point of my blog entry is to state that I will retain the current friends that I have now and I will remember you if I ever become famous. More importantly though, I will make new friends and I will make sure that they know, we are friends and they are not just a fan.

So you honestly think the more well-known artists on here have ditched their friends 'on the way up' and now sit on some kind of pedastal, looking down at everyone?? Not true...

I have seen it done with some of them, not all. But I do believe that some of the more popular artists actually put themselves on a pedistal and refuse to befriend anyone new. They are afraid that someone new might only be their friend because they want "free pix" and while they are not really "looking down at everyone" they are still sitting pretty high.

I can understand why certain artists dodge their fans, such as Karabiner. If he does not, than he will only get non-stop "Pron Requests," he does not share his private information and yet there are plenty of people who still "stalk" him.

As for the artists who have "ditched" making new friends, I will leave them nameless.

another thing that you may not have taken into consideration is that a lot of the artists look upon their fellow furs that aren't friends as, to be blunt, customers. if they give away their artwork, then who is going to buy it?

Also, even small pieces of artwork take a lot of time, between sketching, lining, coloring . . . I'm far from one of the better artists on here, but I know my own artwork can easily take 12 hours to finish, i can just imagine how long some of the pieces I've seen take. what might be a small piece of art to one person is an entire weekend to another person.

I do understand exactly where you are coming from though, *laughs* and actually have spent the entire weekend ranting in various places about how there's two levels of furs in the fandom . . . the in crowd and the out crowd. The in-crowd are the good artists who go to the conventions and put up a piece of artwork and everyone ooohs and aaaahs over it, and the out crowd are the ones who are the other 95% who get shoved to the side and at best, if they get looked at or listened to, are told to be more like that 5%. and then never looked at again of course. I told some people "wouldn't it be nice if some of the people who are sooooooo busy took just even a couple of hours a month to stop kissing each other's tails and you know, be a furry again and hang out with everyone else?" They couldn't see it.

*curls up comfortably on the reject couch* if anyone ever calls me a 'famous fur", shoot me.

I would like to be famous someday, but only in the sense that I would love to have one of my books published professionally. I could never be a member of the "in-crowd" because I would not allow myself to. I would never want someone to become one of my "fans" because I feel that there is an unstoppable "big head" that will innevitably come with having a said fan.

Personally, I would rather prefer being an undiscovered part of the 5% and I would gladly take a seat with you on the "reject couch." I have a "few" video games that we could play while we sit there, if you are interested.

I am a collector first, a gamer second, and famous will never apply to me. That is the way I like it.

*high fives and takes a controller*

I also agree with WolfeMasters. I would definantly join you all on the 'reject couch', and I would be in the other 5% or so, as said. I would want to be in the 'out-crowd'.

I mean, if you are in the in crowd, this is what you get. " OMG! THIS PIC IS AWESOME! CAN I GET A PICTURE FROM YOU?1 PLEASE! ", and it would just bite through my last nerve like a rabid chicken! X3

But it also feels somewhat bad to be in the 'out-crowd ', you get this, " Nice, the colors are okay, good work. ' in a somewhat sarcastic manner. Your sometimes lucky if you get that sometimes. Thats all i`m saying. * Takes another controller, and hops on the reject couch * So what we playin`?. :3

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/profi.....s&mode=own Take a pick.

I think that you might have it wrong in some aspects. I'm not famous by any stretch, but I've had at least two people come to me, not asking to be firendly, but asking just straight up for art. One of them didn't even seem to have looked at my gallery to see what I'm good at, he just out and asked for something I'm extremely poor at. When I tried to clarify he just got huffy and told me that he might come back "when you are a better artist."

I don't like pushiness, I draw for people who are nice to me. When someone hosts an oC chat, I draw them something as a thank you. When I have time I do little headshot sketches for my friends. I usually don't do that for people who just IM me out of the blue and say "can I have free art for *blank* reason?" in more words. I do commissions, have schoolwork to be done, need to look for a job, and generally don't have time for a lot of things.

My priorities? Schoolwork > My social life here > Commissions > My personal art > Requests from strangers. I don't think that's out of line. And the popular artists, remember, get probably a dozen requests and five commission offers every week. There aren't many people out there who would commission, and most would prefer having free art to begin with.

I understand why they are suspiscious of new people trying to talk to them, I've tried talking to more popular artists before and really when I look back on it I didn't sound like much more than a crazy fangirl. "Hi, I really like your art." "Hi, thanks."

Yes, I see what you mean. Like I have said, it matters how you look at the problem. You seem to see it differently then I do. Though, I do agree you have to have 'you time', so you can take a break, finish schoolwork, and so on.

What i`m trying to say is what Zatumushgir had said, and I quote " the accomplished artists will bend over backwards for their friends, but at the same time are not as prone to making new friends with less accomplished artists. So, basically, the world would be a better place if people stopped judging others on their accomplishments (or lack thereof) and just got to know eachother. ".

I also see your point, if you always made friend with everyone they just think they can go " Since we are friends now, can I please have a birthday picture, for free? *Puppy Dog Pout* " or so on. I see that would be unfair to you, and all the other people who that happens to.

Also, like I said, trust is a huge aspect. Lets say I was a 'lesser artist' which I would consider myself as. I do not wish to be famous, I just wish I would get less sarcastic comments on some of my artwork, which I spend quite alot of time on. So I see they might see this happening: They do a trade, and you happen to finish and post your image up, they comment on it saying "OMG! I LOVE THIS, CAN`T WAIT TO SEE HOW MINE TURNS OUT!!", then you wait for your half, and get this about a moth later " I was extremely busy, and had no time to work on it, it iwll be up sometime. So pretty much, they won`t return the favor, or give you a load of crap, it looks like they spent 2-3 minutes on it, and you spent hours, sometimes even days on their piece. That is why most of the time, the other person must post their half up first, so you know they did their half. And thats just to name one thing. So your point is also very important.

Oops, I meant to say month, like I said, I have a small cramped room, typing on a God knows how old keyboard, the letters are almost wore off, and so on.

Oh, that's happened to me a couple times before actually. I did a trade with someone, finished my part, and never got anything in return. Really I didn't care much, I figure trades to be a bit more like requests anymore.

I do save every pic anyone draws for me though, no matter how quickly done. It's the thought that counts.

Yes, thats true. Sometimes, though, not so rarely anymore, your lucky if you even get only a 2-3 minute half of your trade. And yes, they really have turned into just requests, or a free Commission, which is in the horrible for the 'more advanced artist'.

It`s somewhat a waste of their time, loss of money, and it lowers their chances of trusting many others, at some points. And they usually never trust the person who cheated them ever again. Now, if I turn in a trade late, it is because I`m trying to improve my skills, and try to make the picture look nice, to the best of my abilites {Again, I don`t give a crap about the spelling on some things, i`m stressed out enough as it is!}.

oh, yes, I take what you mean ^^' anyway, I don't know if I can consider myself even a 'good artist', but I promised to myself that I'll never forget the times when I used to be just a beginner ^_^ I like to do art trades with everyone, even with people who isn't very good...yet :3 anyway, if an artist ever need help he/she'd just have to come to me and say 'hi, can you help me with this ?' afterall artists must help each other, despite the actual quality of their works ^_^

In any way, I know how you feel this. I feel sometimes the same things... :(

Alright, i have a thing or two to say, and i admit i bet not many people are going to read it, but i wanted wolvenshadow to see it becuz i honestly think she's a really nice person who's just down in the dumps. No matter how unbiased you try to be, when you're in a bad mood everythings turned for the worse.
That said:
Yes the "better artists" do get too many people who only want to "know" them becuz they may get something out of it. It DOES cause mistrust. Plus- i bet you didnt' know that a lot of the artists you admire so much- are POOR. This means not only do they have to balance working on art, work, home life, and usually school as well, they just can't afford to do free art. I mean, to be honest, i try to charge my FRIENDS for comissions, just cuz i need the money.
And your 2-3 minute rule, is a little unfair sweety- Amanda Payne for instance- who did my avatar for me- a paid comission- can probably do somethign that takes us forever in an insanely short amount of time. I do have to say that some people are just a$$holes. It happens, you gotta accept it. Some people will look down their noses, "fame" affects everyone differently.
So adding up the time it takes to do a decent picture- add in the money they lose, then take all the people who just want great art for free (hey! i'll admit i wish i knew someone who could pop out art for me- i just respect that they need to eat too) and you have the bad side of gift art.
NOW, talking to someone. Like the furr before said- they usually don't have the time. I mean, they are nice about it right? A lot of people have wifes or even families- homework they want to get doen well, stuff to do at home, and people they already know to talk to, and sometime you just can't take in new friends becuz you honestly dont' have the time for them- usually "famous" people know a lot of people already (s'probably how they became "famous" >^.~<) and talk to them still.
That said- a lot of art places have so much art to look at that it honestly takes forever to look at each and every piece of art and comment on it- so most people tend to stick with stuff they "like". My friend Ruffy is a real sweety and manages to find time for EVERYONE no matter if they only draw stik figures- becuz he knows how hard it is when you post art and no one cares to comment.
If you want advice >^.^< i think a good idea is to hop over to an art forem- honestly its a great place to get good artists who are hanging out to go "hey! that's a good try, but if you tried working on your porpotions, it'd make for better pictures" or maybe some tips on colouring.
Honestly- its hard to give advice becuz most people- including a lot of great artists- didnt' get there by advice- its practice that gets you there. So naturally there's a lot of people out there who are just starting out and arent' very good at it, and not a whole lot of people who are freakign fantastic at it- becuz they haven't had the time to try getting better.
*huggleS* i understand that life isn't fair- i highly agree, but i've personally found out that a lot of great "artists" are really nice people and just want to be seen as a person and not as a road to more pron or more art/stories. I know a few writers who are MORE than happy to give you advice on how to get better- usually you have to ask for it tho, most people (including me) are afraid to give constructive advice becuz their afraid of people getting upset.
I hope this helps somewhat, because it honestly makes me sad that not as many people see the other side of the story as i'd like.
Just take a minute and walk in another person's pawprints...

(i apoligize ahead of time if i offended anyone =P )

Amen. I happen to be in the "writer who will be more than happy to give advice" catagory myself, but I don't do much reading of other people's works unless they ask because that free time goes to writing my *own* stuff --if I spent it reading everyone else's stories and commenting, I'd not have any time for myself.

I agree with WolfeMasters. =D & sanura_mosi. ^^ People did drew some gifts for me but I dont just dump them out. =/ I fact, I always try to draw a gift back to them as a thank oyu. ^.^

It never herts to ask them for a Gift nicely. In fact they are nicer than you think they are. & there just like everyone else I meet here & there on the net. ;)

"It never herts to ask them for a Gift nicely."

I think it's impolite to message someone JUST to ask for free art. It's like walking up to a stranger and asking them for a favor that'll take them one-three hour(s) to accomplish.

Not the way you think I ment... I dont really care. It's just art or the net for that matter. =/ I dont beleave it's like real life, because most likely most people will never meet the people in art sites in person anyway. =/

But I never asked people for art anyway.

You make sound if it's a bad thing. People asked me. *They tell me do you take requests* & I mostly tell them nicely that I really dont but I do gift art.

I just gotta do my own work. =P

I guess I just find the idea of being asked for free stuff that requires work and time by a stranger offensive.

Well everyone has there own saying, sorry if I sounded rude. ^^; People really asked me for art before but like I said this thing really doesnt bug me... =p

I can understand what your saying. I know what it's like to be an up coming artist and seeing all those wonderful people out there. It does get a little bad when they don't really do much with the 'lesser' artists as you call them but hey when you get up there in art and things like that I'm sure you'll see things the way they do.

I've actually made friends with a couple artists who are WAY better than me in terms, the chats are always fun and it really gets you up there and everything with them. Sure they won't do any gifts, etc. for you but it's good to get to know them. Even if it is from a little chat and all that jazz.

We're all busy with art and stuff like that, but then again 'lesser' artists will always get better and get up there to be the big artists. It just takes practice, patience and courage.

To become friends with an artist it just starts out with a nice question, or conversation. Be it asking them about a character or just wanting to say hello they will probably try and take out of their time to answer it or talk to you. I'm pretty sure we're all very but we always try to squeeze in time for everyone. And really I always try and squeeze in time for everyone I know, or don't know.

Many artist have gotten shafted at one point or another, and are precautious. I'm not even an artist and I've had a bad exprience with a "dragon," once, wasting a few dozen hours on something he later told me he didn't even care about, but I'm not gonna go on a smear campaing because he's at many places and seems to be intimate friends friends with all of the tallented artists. But that's enough martyrdom for one post.
Though I've noticed that this elitist or exclusive behaviour (And I only use those terms because I can't think of any others, even though these are stronger than what I'm going for) is not limited to talanted artists, or even people who think they are tallented artists. That's just how a few people are. Sometimes you have to force your way into a circle of friends. More often than not, however, people really are friendly and willing to talk if they actually have time, even if they seem cold and unaprochable, blah blah blah.

I think a few months ago there was a chain journal over on DA entittled "Fake Friends" that delt with a similar subject. I thought it was rather silly of people to complain about things like that. I think I made a responce journal entry entittle "Flake Fronds."