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Are Biden's Vaccine Mandates Legal? And Story Time
4 years ago
General
-- DEVIANTART -- WEASYL -- SOFURRY -- TWITTER -- BLUESKY --I am going to point this out, regardless of your opinions of the man, you can go look up all the cases he talks about it and it really is just a matter of him going over what has proceeded these mandates and how they were ruled. I am rather tired of people being stubbornly biased against listening to someone because one or two other videos they have made. People are human, people can change, people can grow, and yet the internet seems to forget this with a great deal of frequency. You know who you are also *stares at Twitter in disdain*
The Short answer is basically yes, because there were several instances in which people tried to refuse a vaccine back in the early 1900's when Small Pox was still a problem and it was determined that at the time it was necessary to prevent a potential outbreak and to prevent the potential severe injury of those around you.
And even the courts at the time ruled that no one is wholly free to do whatever they want whenever they want however they want, there will be restraints placed upon to people in order to protect the populace at large and during times of dire emergency and crisis those restraints can be made more restrictive.
All of the mandates allow for some exceptions such that if the person would be unnecessarily burdened by the requirement or it would cause significant harm or death at the time of requirement, then it can be exempted.
Also I should point out to my more conservative followers that Nixon is the one signed OSHA into existence as a way of maintaining general workplace safety and in a time of a pandemic that can be requiring a vaccine for the safety of your fellow workers. You are not allowed to take a course of action that would potentially cause severe and significant harm to another person without consequences.
Story time from work!! The TL;DR is at the bottom
So I think this is the first time I have every really talked about my job on this website or what my days are like, but I felt an incident today is worth sharing.
For those of you who do not know, I work in a pharmacy, so I get to see a lot of crazy stuff and hear a lot of crazier stuff come out of people's mouths. I should stress that there are a lot of people who believe that us scientists are censoring data because we want people to not know the truth about things, but here is the truth, if there was a miracle cure for COVID would be trying to get it into as many people's hands as possible as fast possible. Unless you are some conspiracy theorist, what reason would we have for not sharing it or wanting it to be as publicly available as possible. Where is any ounce of logic in that?
But the short of the story is that we refused to fill a patient's Ivermectin script from a telehealth doctor, and we called and told the doctor we would not be filling it because the Pharmacist who has a doctorate's in their own right and a license of their own is completely within their clinical judgment to make that sort of call. The doctor said we couldn't, it is a valid script, and as stated before, YES the pharmacist can and will refuse to fill a prescription if they feel it is unsafe for the patient to be doing so. DO NOT think your doctor has the final say on what does and not does not get filled. It is the responsibility of the Pharmacist to do their due diligence and make sure that what a patient is taking is not going to cause injury or death during the course of treatment. The pharmacist is there as the final checker before a medication gets given to a patient. Sometimes that means just getting the acknowledgement that two drugs have a severe life threatening interaction. You will see this is things like Hydroxycholorquine and Azithromycin, the "miracle cure" that mister Trump recommended and took. Yes, this treatment very well could have killed him if improperly administered and supervised. Both medications have their uses, but should almost never be given together unless you are being directly monitored by your physician or you know what signs to look for in order to seek emergency help.
I furthermore got to tell the patient directly that would not be filling her med and she said that she knew 100's of people have taken it and gotten better and we were just censoring that data. Again, if it was actual cure, why the hell would scientists and doctors cover that up? We have a vaccine which we know has a 100% efficacy at preventing DEATH! Yes, that is right, it prevents DEATH from this disease with a 100% effectiveness. And it prevents major hospitalization and long term problems by giving your body the ability to fight back even if it is limited which it seems to be much better than just limited effectiveness. It should also go without saying that just because people have taken Ivermectin and gotten better doesn't mean the Ivermectin made them better, chances are they got better on their own and if anything it just gives them a false sense of security in thinking they are treating/preventing it when they are not and they could just be spreading it around. Correlation is not causation. The other thing that pissed me off is that she asked why when Trump was president did he get all of this and get better in a day and that the paper from last November was only retracted because Trump got treated with these meds. And 1. Trump was president, so YES they are going to throw everything including the kitchen at him and hope it works even if it is against medical recommendations and 2. He actually had it a lot worse than he made it sound and it lasted more than a day AND 3. The paper was retracted for falsifying data, which is a major no-no in the science realm, it is the same reason the Autism-Vaccine paper got retracted and why that doctor lost his license on top of a lot of other things.
Also short video for showing you the inanity of thinking correlation is not causation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUti6vGctQM
TL;DR Your pharmacist has every right to deny a prescription from being filled as it is their degree and license and it is within their clinical purview to make sure that what is being filled is going to be safe and effective for the patient to take. I don't care if you are some big shot doctor, if a pharmacist says that there is no benefit and only risk to the patient, that is their job to know that about the drugs they are dispensing. That is what they went to school for to memorize as much about ALL the drugs as they can. Know you own gaps in knowledge. Just because people have taken Ivermectin and not "gotten" COVID or got over it doesn't mean it was the Ivermectin or other drug that caused it, they likely got better on their own and several studies have shown no efficacy of Ivermectin in treating or preventing COVID, so no benefit for all risk. IT IS A PARALYTIC! It also took a concentration of 1000x the standard dosing to have ANY significant decrease in viral replication. That is likely more than enough to KILL you. So yeah, you are taking a paralytic for absolutely 0 benefit to you. Use it for what it was made for, not something it is not and several paper have shown to not work. Finally Correlation is not Causation.
The Short answer is basically yes, because there were several instances in which people tried to refuse a vaccine back in the early 1900's when Small Pox was still a problem and it was determined that at the time it was necessary to prevent a potential outbreak and to prevent the potential severe injury of those around you.
And even the courts at the time ruled that no one is wholly free to do whatever they want whenever they want however they want, there will be restraints placed upon to people in order to protect the populace at large and during times of dire emergency and crisis those restraints can be made more restrictive.
All of the mandates allow for some exceptions such that if the person would be unnecessarily burdened by the requirement or it would cause significant harm or death at the time of requirement, then it can be exempted.
Also I should point out to my more conservative followers that Nixon is the one signed OSHA into existence as a way of maintaining general workplace safety and in a time of a pandemic that can be requiring a vaccine for the safety of your fellow workers. You are not allowed to take a course of action that would potentially cause severe and significant harm to another person without consequences.
Story time from work!! The TL;DR is at the bottom
So I think this is the first time I have every really talked about my job on this website or what my days are like, but I felt an incident today is worth sharing.
For those of you who do not know, I work in a pharmacy, so I get to see a lot of crazy stuff and hear a lot of crazier stuff come out of people's mouths. I should stress that there are a lot of people who believe that us scientists are censoring data because we want people to not know the truth about things, but here is the truth, if there was a miracle cure for COVID would be trying to get it into as many people's hands as possible as fast possible. Unless you are some conspiracy theorist, what reason would we have for not sharing it or wanting it to be as publicly available as possible. Where is any ounce of logic in that?
But the short of the story is that we refused to fill a patient's Ivermectin script from a telehealth doctor, and we called and told the doctor we would not be filling it because the Pharmacist who has a doctorate's in their own right and a license of their own is completely within their clinical judgment to make that sort of call. The doctor said we couldn't, it is a valid script, and as stated before, YES the pharmacist can and will refuse to fill a prescription if they feel it is unsafe for the patient to be doing so. DO NOT think your doctor has the final say on what does and not does not get filled. It is the responsibility of the Pharmacist to do their due diligence and make sure that what a patient is taking is not going to cause injury or death during the course of treatment. The pharmacist is there as the final checker before a medication gets given to a patient. Sometimes that means just getting the acknowledgement that two drugs have a severe life threatening interaction. You will see this is things like Hydroxycholorquine and Azithromycin, the "miracle cure" that mister Trump recommended and took. Yes, this treatment very well could have killed him if improperly administered and supervised. Both medications have their uses, but should almost never be given together unless you are being directly monitored by your physician or you know what signs to look for in order to seek emergency help.
I furthermore got to tell the patient directly that would not be filling her med and she said that she knew 100's of people have taken it and gotten better and we were just censoring that data. Again, if it was actual cure, why the hell would scientists and doctors cover that up? We have a vaccine which we know has a 100% efficacy at preventing DEATH! Yes, that is right, it prevents DEATH from this disease with a 100% effectiveness. And it prevents major hospitalization and long term problems by giving your body the ability to fight back even if it is limited which it seems to be much better than just limited effectiveness. It should also go without saying that just because people have taken Ivermectin and gotten better doesn't mean the Ivermectin made them better, chances are they got better on their own and if anything it just gives them a false sense of security in thinking they are treating/preventing it when they are not and they could just be spreading it around. Correlation is not causation. The other thing that pissed me off is that she asked why when Trump was president did he get all of this and get better in a day and that the paper from last November was only retracted because Trump got treated with these meds. And 1. Trump was president, so YES they are going to throw everything including the kitchen at him and hope it works even if it is against medical recommendations and 2. He actually had it a lot worse than he made it sound and it lasted more than a day AND 3. The paper was retracted for falsifying data, which is a major no-no in the science realm, it is the same reason the Autism-Vaccine paper got retracted and why that doctor lost his license on top of a lot of other things.
Also short video for showing you the inanity of thinking correlation is not causation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUti6vGctQM
TL;DR Your pharmacist has every right to deny a prescription from being filled as it is their degree and license and it is within their clinical purview to make sure that what is being filled is going to be safe and effective for the patient to take. I don't care if you are some big shot doctor, if a pharmacist says that there is no benefit and only risk to the patient, that is their job to know that about the drugs they are dispensing. That is what they went to school for to memorize as much about ALL the drugs as they can. Know you own gaps in knowledge. Just because people have taken Ivermectin and not "gotten" COVID or got over it doesn't mean it was the Ivermectin or other drug that caused it, they likely got better on their own and several studies have shown no efficacy of Ivermectin in treating or preventing COVID, so no benefit for all risk. IT IS A PARALYTIC! It also took a concentration of 1000x the standard dosing to have ANY significant decrease in viral replication. That is likely more than enough to KILL you. So yeah, you are taking a paralytic for absolutely 0 benefit to you. Use it for what it was made for, not something it is not and several paper have shown to not work. Finally Correlation is not Causation.
I know a good source that says that Liberals are trying to kill God-Fearing Conservatives by denying them the Vaccine.
Go take the vaccine.
My uncle works within the deepest levels of government. He also knows Q very well. And he shared some very important information with me.
Q says that the Deep State is trying to kill God-Fearing Conservatives by denying them the Vaccines. It was their plan all along. What people are saying about the vaccine is a successful Deep State psyop.
The reason why you hear so many bad things about the Vaccine is because the Deep State is spending all their money paying people to say bad things about it.
Also from an actual nurse out of the 250 cases in her hospital 205 of them are unvaccinated. That is 82%. Which is about the average between Janssen and Pfizer/Moderna's efficacies because both Pfizer and Moderna measured even mild+ symptoms where Janssen only measured moderate+ symptoms.
But still that should be enough to show it does work, it does make a difference.
Herd Immunity is actually a thing, you have it for Polio, Measles Mumps, Rubella, and etc. I could carry on the list for a while. And also we are not lab rats, that is why there were clinical trials before it was even an option authorized emergency use, and the Pfizer vaccine has become officially signed off on by the FDA which should be even more reason to get it because it has now been given the check mark from the FDA that it is safe and effective and has met all the requirements for being used beyond an EUA.
If it ever goes away, because that could happen if people keep refusing to get vaccinated.
So....basically only the US is having this major problem of anti-vaccination last I checked.
It's a bit odd that not so long ago we had deseases that had a far higher lethality rate than the WuFlu but somehow this thing with a 99% survival rate is doomsday scenario?
Remember this all started with "just 2 weeks to flatten the curve" and now we reached Orvellian Dystopia... Is this what counts as "working" or m"aking a difference"?
If you are being told to take oral medication something is very wrong, I work in a pharmacy and other than symptomatic treatment for people who have tested positive there is no oral medication that you should be taking for the virus.
If actually read what went into it's development you'd know that it didn't skip any steps that any other vaccine would have required. It was highly prioritized because of its necessity to limit the transmission of the virus. It's amazing what can get done when you throw a lot of money and resources at a problem.
And yes people thinking they are invincible after taking it is a problem.
Calling it WuFlu is racist and highly problematic as it isn't the Flu or an influenza virus, it is a Corona virus. It actually has about a 10-15% fatality rate last I checked and just because you survived doesn't mean you completely recovered there are even more people who now have permanent lung, heart, or brain damage as a result. It is also highly transmissible with a long incubation period. And I will point to Italy as an example of what happens if we did nothing, they dead people lining the streets because they had that many people die so quickly. If you kept on the research you'd know that.
As for flattening the curve, it worked, think how many people are alive because of it. Sadly thinking it was just going to go away was not what that meant, and then you have people who refused to wear masks or follow guidelines which has made it worse.
Also you really don't know what an Orwellian Dystopia truly is because we are still no where close to what that even was meant to be, but the phrase has lost its meaning because how haphazardly it has been thrown around.
As for Italy, should I remind you of that stupid act they did where they put a chinese man on the corner of the street and from him everyone caught the virus that touched him or was close enough?
The flattening worked? I dunno saw those graphs and whatever progress was made got literally undone. (I'd also say those riots, lootings, and other such acts also added to the situation)
Really now? Have you looked around lately? There are signs with double speak ("Staying apart keeps us together" for example) or just down right tyranical in nature (aka do as told or else), active censorship of things that isn't "approved" until it is, freedoms and privacy getting more and more restricted in the name of the "common good" while the elite are laughing at the common folk as they do the very thing peasants are punished for. And yes we are at the point of book burning too, so called "problematic" and "outdated" reading materials are disposed of to be replaced with "current" and "politically correct" versions. The orvellian dystopia phrase might be throw around a lot but there is a good reason for it.
Zika and Ebola are the names of the virus not the region they are found in.
Yeah the riots didn't help any at all, people were tired of a lot of things and people as a large collective are idiotic.
Staying apart keeps us together makes perfect sense because the only way this will go away is if we work as a collective, instead of making it all about yourself it is about us as a whole. A single person can do more harm than you'd think.
Uh...as far,as know nothing is being censored until it is approved information is being released as it becomes available, like Ivermectin being completely useless, despite that people saying we just don't want to share the miracle cure. Like for fucks sake, if we had a treatment for it, we'd be wanting it to get to everyone and we'd be giving it to people on hospitals as fast as possible. Where is the logic? There isn't any.
Outdated science is outdated, heliocentrism replaced geocentrism because it was the most accurate and actually factually correct orientation of the solar system. If we kept teaching outdated stuff we'd still be using leeches and believing in miasma theory.
Also no offense but I find these "I have a [insert] friend" type of anecdotes very convenient, they tend to smell of bs.
Makes sense? You're really not seeing the paradox in that sentence?
Really? The mere existence of these "fact checkers" already proves there is censored information, hell even thing that they later are forced to ADMIT was true from the start is still referred to as "true for NOW". In what world does a factual statement change on a whim?
Also surely you aren't this naive to think a "cure" would be just given away like that right? I mean come on, big pharma's whole idea is to NOT sell a cure just ease symptoms so you keep buying the meds (with their many side effects that require OTHER meds to treat).
And you clearly missed my whole point there...that was not what I was saying and the " " were intentional.
His username is Jaf1320 here on FA and his profile says he is from or in Singapore: https://www.dropbox.com/s/36c9w6e09.....d.com.png?dl=0
And there you have proof of how it has actively effected someone.
But with Swine flu a lot of pigs were slaughtered needlessly because of the fear it caused in people making them think it was transmitted through pigs when it was only spreading in people once it made the jump from pigs to humans.
Facts are facts, the earth is round and the sun is the center of the solar system, those are the types of facts I am talking about, things that are not refutable but yet people try to claim they are. Because they have alternative evidence which has long since been disproven. Science is founded on the evidence that we have at the time, things that have been verified and tested repeatedly. miasma used to be the prevailing theory of disease transmission until we developed a means of proving otherwise, and thus developed germ theory and discovered microbes. That is how science sometimes gets flipped upside down, Look at Galileo and proving heliocentrism versus geocentrism. There are things which we can know with 99.99999% certainty because of how rigorous we have tried to disprove it but failed. It is called the null hypothesis.
Unfortunately with a pandemic of this scale and this magnitude, yes, you bet your ass that someone would be trying to get a miracle cure into the hands of as many people as possible because of how utterly devastating this virus is. While its death rate is lower than SARS or MERS, its transmission rate is higher and it leaves you alive long enough to spread it where SARS and MERS killed you fast and quick making it hard for the viruses to spread. But I mean we have a vaccine that has been proven effective and the Pfizer one has been completely approved by the FDA beyond the EUA that it initially had, and we know it works and it is FREE to everyone regardless of insurance coverage. The only virus we have an actual treatment for is the Flu with Oseltamivir, and even that is required to be started within 48 hours of catching it which by the time you have symptoms is already too late and in doesn't even treat it directly it just shortens the time you have it. Virus are impossibly hard to treat like a bacteria or fungus or parasite because they are only half alive. Viruses are all about prevention.
Also if you would have read my journal fully you'd know I work in a retail pharmacy and there are some drugs which are crazy expensive, but guess what, most of them are non-essential like Viagra. Most of your essential meds are pretty cheap relatively speaking and if they are not the cheapest most insurances will cover them, and then on brand name meds, a lot of Manufactures offer financial assistance cards which depending on the med will take off anywhere from 50 dollars to over 500 dollars. And some HIV medication manufactures will cover over 1000 dollars, often making their 1500 dollar med cost only 25 dollars for 1 month worth.
It is becoming increasingly clear to me that you have failed to adequately research the topic when you are talking to someone who works in this industry. While I don't know everything, I have a duty to make sure that I do as much research as possible. I went to school and got a degree in Biology, I spend on a lot of time in my free time research stuff like this to learn about how drugs are made and what the costs of it are. Imagine spending 5 years developing a drug to have do no better than a placebo, you are now out literally 100's of millions of dollars, because you had to pay all the technicians and researchers and suppliers and etc but will never get a penny of that time or money back without something to sell.
Like the “WuFlu”, the lethal side effects of the vaccine is just as low, if not lower the the virus.
There’s no point in protecting one’s pride if it means death
Thing is, this is long not about controlling the spread of a virus, this idiocy is just about how society can be divided and conquered. (I don't think I have point out the second class citizen status like actions done/proposed upon those who didn't take the shot.)
Also also, the flood of humans at borders who are NOT required to have vaccine shots are okay somehow? (not to mention the massive hypocrites that preach the loudest about restrictions and lockdowns, but are the ones to break their own rules and regulations first then getting away with it) But a legal citizen has to have monthly booster shots and pills, papers to prove said boostershots and more? You're really not seeing the problem here?
If you had the vaccine inside you, there would be less chance of getting infected by migrants then without.
Doesn't the whole thing fall apart if one has to go through all those hoops (and punished if not) while the other doesn't? What's the point of enforcing all those rules and restriction if random people can just walk in
And I didn't get the virus even though both my mother and father went through it (not at the same time), and they both recovered without issue, and they didn't have shots prior to contracting it.
It's the same thing with seatbelts. They don't magically save you from car crashes but having a seatbelt on decreases the damage chance caused by a crash.
But, unlike seatbelts. Viruses like COVID can mutate. If everyone had the same mindset as you, there's a chance that the virus could mutate into a stronger variant. Of course, everyone could come up with immunity to it. But that didn't work very well for the Native Americans and Smallpox.
Its not some struggle against good and evil, God-Fear Conservatives who drink Horse Cum vs Elite ANTIFA Space Aliens. It's just common sense.
Your example of the natives and the small pox isn't really working here because, the small pox came from a different biome and got introduced into an alien enviroment that never encountered such a thing and had no pre-existing defenses for it.
While the Wuhan virus is similar to already existing corona virus types (reminder that's the class name too, examples would be common cold, SARS and such) so it didn't just randomly got introduced from a sealed off area to a yet untouched biome, our immune system is familiar enough with it to recognize what it is generally.
Not only that, but because people are dumbasses about dealing with it properly, it's had time to do just like the flu does and develop multiple major variants, meaning the longer we don't nip it in the bud, the worse it gets 'cuz it has more time to adapt and change, for the exact same reason we have to take an annual flu vaccine that's different each time
It's just like taking the flu vaccine. It's not 100% guaranteed to stop it, especially since it's successfully mutated into multiple types thanks to not being wiped, but it sure drops the chances of it, and reduces the damage and aftereffects if you do.
The standard vaccine takes about 5 years for approval and a lot of it is just waiting around for signatures and approvals from the government agencies who are otherwise busy with other matters that are ahead in line.
It's kind of like how people pay for fast passes at Disney and other theme parks
The vaccine is safe. There are multiple types of vaccines too, the new mRNA, and the old style that everyone uses for flu shots still. Get one or the other and stop bitching.
Here are a few videos is links to sources about how this vaccine was developed so that you can educate yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVlULRMvcjI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPeeCyJReZw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kfdZ8o_j4
Also consider it went through what is called an Emergency Use Authorization which means that it is generally fast tracked through all the chains for Emergency Use specifically. Imagine if you had to deal with this virus for 5 years? That is how long a normal vaccine takes to develop. I don't think you would have wanted to sit around as more and more people died without a solution.
You see there are more variables than just the vaccine itself that could be at play which could explain the surge of hospitalizations. We are also going into Flu season as well, so that could be a compounding factor. Also you do realize that the flu shot is a different vaccine each year, like it made and developed new each year, but because all they are doing is changing a few components it generally treated the same as the dead virus being given to you is the only part that has changed. With mRNA vaccines like the COVID shot, you can now make that process easier, faster, and more effective by targeting specific aspects of the virus.
It is THE safest vaccine on the market because it is an mRNA vaccine, at least for Moderna and Pfizer, the Janssen one is a more typical vaccine. The means that when you are given the vaccine, you are given no part of the virus and only given enough RNA instructions for your Ribosomes to produce the the necessary proteins. for your immune system to identify. And this style of vaccine has been under development for 50 years, so saying this vaccine was rush is a gross misunderstanding of how this vaccine was made when in reality it was probably the vaccine that has taken the longest to make, this is just the first time that we could put that technology to the test.
But that is fine, your employer will likely require it or you risk termination because of OSHA standards that might be coming down the pipeline.
As for Gain-of-Function, selective breeding does the same thing in a very indirect way which. And doing that sort of research in regards to pathogens is important because it would given an ability to see how we would combat different potential problems like if someone decided to make a biogenic weapon, or if we to encounter some super bug because of all the antibiotic resistance that is going. And it would also give us tools to potentially fight those problems more effectively and at a pace faster than we would otherwise. It is called proactive research rather than reactive research.
So you can take your chances all you want, but if you find yourself lying on your death bed, then will you vindicate myself and those who tried so hard to get you to take it?
It is people like you who seems to see all the negatives that science can bring, but like anything it is a tool that as a species we must learn to use. The tool is neither good nor bad, it is only how you use it. Is a hammer an bad tool because murderers have used it?
Just because something is done quickly, does not mean its done badly. You ever played the game Plague Inc? Diseases that are barely a risk, get little to no funding for cures. Diseases that spread like wildfire and are extremely rapid, get lots of funding. When you have more funding, you find a cure faster.
This Vaccine, is an example of plague inc at work. We discovered a fast spreading disease, and we put lots of funding into it, and are now rolling out blue cure bulbs all over the world trying to fix this thing. Of course the mutation rate is still happening and it takes a lot of effort to fully vaccinate the world. Unlike Plague Inc, we have a lot of people who are flat out refusing the vaccine because they're scared, or stupid, or deeply misinformed. Which are you?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201.....ines/mrna.html
mRNA Vaccines Are New, But Not Unknown.
Researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades.
Beyond vaccines, cancer research has used mRNA to trigger the immune system to target specific cancer cells.
Are you saying you'd refuse a cure for cancer too?
Also everything in science is within a given certainty, nothing is 100%, only extremely well tested and documented. Hell there is a lot of drugs on the market where we don't know the full mechanism of action, but that doesn't me they magically stop working because we don't know yet.
This new vaccination method, is simply a new way of delivering the blueprints for the virus to your immune system. It isn't going to cause you autism, it isn't going to mutate your offspring if you somehow get lucky enough to have any, it isn't going to turn you into a zombie after you die, it isn't sending your geographical location to spy satellites (The gov doesn't need that anyway, you carry tracking devices with you everywhere you go as is. Mine is accurate to within 3 feet and can tell me which side of the sidewalk I'm on!), it isn't going to wipe out all leftists or rightists.
Fun fact. The blood clot thing was in Johnson's vaccine, which uses the OLD method of vaccinations. You know, the non-mRNA version. Did you get theirs? If not, you're a hypocrite because you refuse to take this vaccine because it uses a new method, yet, there was an old style available all along. As long as you're not a woman taking specific drugs, you won't have risk of blood clots with Johnson's half assed lazy made cheap vaccine. :)
Unless you wanna refuse theirs too and prove you're just an anti-vaxxer. ;)
I'll bet you didn't know that the government is fully allowed to force the vaccine. George Washington did it to the troops, to protect America. He had them lick people's leaking sores when they were recovering from a mild case of small pox. That was how they vaccinated back then.
Would you rather lick someone's snot to be vaccinated against Coronavirus? Or perhaps you're just an anti-vaxxer who is making up any excuse to refuse the vaccine. First it was "I don't want to try the new thing", now its "Oh well you have defeated my logic by proving to me that there's a non-new version out, so now I have to talk about some probably fake video about blowdart vaccines."
I informed you that the mRNA vaccine isn't the only choice, and you made something else up instead of going "Hmm, really, Johnson's vaccine is the safe old kind that I know and trust? Maybe I should look into that."
You also ignored the fact that I just told you our founding father, of the entire nation, the first president of America, FORCED his troops to be vaccinated. It was MANDATORY. No one was allowed to refuse. How does that make you feel by the way? That the first president mandated and forced vaccinations.
Also, you calling anyone a sheep is highly illogical
Don't play in traffic now. :O
Gaslighting is a colloquialism that is loosely defined as making someone question their reality. The term is also used informally to describe someone who persistently puts forth a false narrative which leads another person to doubt their own perceptions to the extent that they become disoriented and distressed. ~Wikipedia
Yep, that would be a good thing. You should always question your reality, to see if what you believe is really true, or if you're living in an echo chamber of falsehoods. You should verify your facts, and make sure your reality makes sense. Otherwise, you make great entertainment. But at least Stolus likes you because you're sending him more people. Oh and I'm sure Alastor would like you too.
You almost seem like one of them crazies holding up the signs on the street corners, except instead of "The end is coming" you write "The government put microchips in your vaccines!"
Stop being stupid by killing yourself with Horse Worm Medicine and get the vaccine.
Its also pretty close to unenforceable and one suspects very likely to get waffle-stomped by the supreme court, so this was likely an exercise in pointlessness from the start.
I really do not see any way to reconcile the rights of bodily autonomy with support for a blanket denial of basic services for a refusal of compliance. At that point you're just shitcanning the concept by the backdoor. Anyone remember when the one thing everyone agreed on was that this sort of authoritarianism was a bad thing?
many places offer curbside pick up, so people are free to use that service, but companies should not have to allow potentially hazardous things to come to their other patrons or employees. Non-essential events like concerts and conventions should be allowed to impose such restrictions because 1 private event and 2 it again puts the safety of the many versus the choice of one person.
While I respect the right of bodily autonomy that you cannot be made to sacrifice something for the safety of another, blood donation, organ donation, etc. That is something that you are personally giving up. Vaccine requirements are not putting you in harms way, unless there is reason to suspect otherwise which is an exemption, and it is not just for your safety, but community safety. You are being made to give anything up, we aren't taking anything from someone. Companies can terminate you for any reason they want, and being you every state with the exception of WY is an at will state, companies can enforce it.
Also consider that OSHA already has limits and standards in place for workplace safety and this would fall squarely into "If you are unvaccinated you are creating an unsafe work environment that puts others at unnecessary risk for exposure to a potentially deadly pathogen" Again, if it were small pox, would it be a different story if put the lives of literally 100s of people at risk?
Nor do I believe for a second that these powers will be applied responsibly or terminated within a reasonable time period, judging by the present track record of administrations in various parts of the world, and very little being effective in actually combating the virus. Even in countries such as mine where the population is nearly totally vaccinated and was done so early, the virus is and remains a problem. An over-reaching solution likely not to be very effective and with potentially nasty consequences further down the line? Yeah, Pandora's box should stay fucking closed.
Far too much heinous shit has been sold on the back of being for the purpose of safety to not approach that argument with a supreme level of caution, and its a little worrying just how fast the land of the free is becoming New Arstotzka because people were told it would be for their own good. Often as that trite old quote about the relationship between freedom and safety gets wheeled out, the principal behind it is sound. There is a limit. It is not there yet. It likely won't get there. Coming this dangerously close to the creation of a second class citizenry is not justified. There are reasons that when we talk about rights that focus is on individual rights, not collective ones; you can justify damn near anything by framing it as being for a collective good.
Can't speak for you but left right or pink polka dotted, I do not trust people in power to wield these sorts of powers responsibly. We are talking about giving the government power to unilaterally unperson dissenters, limit their movements, dictate limits on their employment, education, healthcare and access to public services and events- and all with no apparent end clause.
That is very, very dangerous territory.
The problem is that new strains are becoming more prevalent and they are mutating to be more transmissible and more deadly. You act as if this is just another flu when millions of people have died already and many more now have permanent lung, heart, or brain conditions that is leaving them severely diminished. One young 20 year old got it and now has the lung function of an elderly man to the point he will never full recover from it.
Colleges/Universities mandate the Meningitis vaccine with very little room for exceptions because even though it is super rare it is very deadly such that could kill people in a matter of a day depending on severity. Polio vaccines were a god send because of what it did to people and there is in fact one survivor of that time who is the last person using an iron lung today.
Pretend all you want that this virus isn't a serious threat, but it is, and it will last year's longer the longer we drag out feet. The Plague lasted a good several years where with today's medicine we could have easily stopped it before it got that bad. Resistance and mutation is the name of the game for virus and longer we don't act like it's a problem the harder it'll be to eliminate. The sad part is that because of it relatively low 10-15% mortality at the moment people don't see it as a problem but the more it mutates the higher that number becomes. It isn't SARS or MERS yet but it is well on its way.
But what you are talking about... pretty well transcends reasonable. You are talking about turning 44% of your country into untouchables over something that is an inherently unpredictable possibility. That is draconian no matter how couched it is in the ideal of safety. I have no objections to encouraging people to get the vaccine or with taking the pandemic seriously- hell, I got it myself despite doubts. What is not kosher is coercing compliance with menaces and especially the manner in which the mandate is imposed. These measures are reminiscent of some of the worst regimes of the 20th century and you'd have to be a fool to think they would just go away if the pandemic were to end tomorrow.
A question for you: You couch your arguments in the concept of collective good via public safety, but is in the collective good to see the liberties of the individual irrecoverably damaged? Individuals are required to form a collective after all. As I alluded to earlier, I believe there is a point when 'safety' ceases to be a compelling argument and instead becomes oppressive. My feeling is very much that this is the path these mandates are presently treading.
"The problem is that new strains are becoming more prevalent and they are mutating to be more transmissible and more deadly. You act as if this is just another flu"
I have at no point said this. My arguments are firmly rooted in rebuking the mandate as worryingly authoritarian. There is in fact a human side to the pandemic and the treatment cannot be allowed to be worse than the sickness itself. Should this crisis ever end it would be very nice to return to the way things used to be, and that is not going to be a possibility if 150m people have been made functionally second-class citizens by government fiat.
To further address your point, the nature of mutation is unpredictable. It is wholly possible the virus could mutate into a less virulent strain, or one that is benignly carried without being infectious, or even jump species entirely as H1N1 is fond of doing. Or as observed with the Delta variant and others in my own country, one that could limit the efficacy of the vaccination itself, thus rendering the purpose of such mandates and to a more limited extent even the usefulness of the vaccine itself moot. Its a lot of 'if' to swallow. I can't justify something this extreme with possibility when what is being proposed is going to lead to a guarantee of something worse for the people in question even with the best of intent, let alone with how political shit outside the pandemic is rolling at present. The mandates are too bloody exploitable if some apparatchik was of a mind to make them so, and way too fucking easy to weaponize. Again, some boxes are best left closed.
"it will last year's longer the longer we drag out feet. The Plague lasted a good several years where with today's medicine we could have easily stopped it before it got that bad. Resistance and mutation is the name of the game for virus and longer we don't act like it's a problem the harder it'll be to eliminate."
Pretty much everyone in the know seems to be in agreement that covid is going to end up endemic. Whether it will or not remains to be seen, but this isn't going away any time soon no matter how many vaccines are issued, and the global nature of the pandemic ensures that wherever a new resistant strain rises up, it will soon take root elsewhere barring a complete cessation of global trade and travel. This limits the list of possible responses. As noted earlier we cannot stop mutation or even reliably plan for it, and will instead have to deal with the problem as it arises due to a lack of crystal balls by which to predict the unique characteristics of any mutant strain.
Actually it isn't unpredictable, it has already mutated into more transmittable forms even if the mortality hasn't gone up. So if you were infecting 3 people but are now infecting 5 people and still maintain a 10% death rate just for ease of use, lets take 10 transmission cycles just to make the numbers a bit easier 3^10 = 59,049 and 10% of that is 590 people are dead. If you take the more transmissible version after 10 infection cycles you are now at 9,765,625 people infected That is 2 orders of magnitude larger. and 10% of that if the death rate holds 97,656 people dead. This is why this particular virus is such a concern and why PREVENTION is so damned important. There is NO treatment, there is ONLY PREVENTION and reduction of spread. And best means to reduce spread is to get vaccinated, but the more people who remain unvaccinated the more it WILL mutate viral replication happens fast, the reason annual flu shots are needed are specifically because of its high mutation rate. this virus has thankfully had a relatively lower mutation rate which is why the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are still proving effective against these other variants even if at a diminished level.
The treatment is not worse, thought there is no treatment, there is only prevention and symptom management once you have it. 99.99% of people who get the vaccine experience arm pain for the first does and have mild flu like symptoms after the second lasting about 24 hours, and that is the most common reaction, if you already had COVID, then you will likely have the second set of symptoms on the first and/or second doses. And those Symptoms completely go away in almost every single case. The cases with blots clots from the Janssen vaccine happened in about 10 people and almost entirely in women over the age of 50. And out of the millions of people who got it at that time, that means your risk of severe negative reaction was 0.00008% at that time when that was being looked into.
The reality is until the pandemic goes away things will never return to normal. And it won't go away until people get vaccinated and stop the spread. Until then companies and governments will do all they can to keep their patrons and citizens safe. And if that means companies don't allow unvaccinated people to go on cruise liners with 100's of other people, or not going to concerts, or conventions, then that is how it will be. They will not be allowed to participate in those things and endanger the health and well being of the other part of the population who has taken measures to protect themselves and those around them. I have doctors leave their practice because their patients refused to even wear a fucking mask, something so incredibly basic for the safety of the doctor and his other patients. It is not Authoritarian when you have people who will actively put your life in harms way and companies and governments want to protect those people.
We've eradicated Small Pox, almost got rid of Polio and Measles, there is no reason to things the same shouldn't happen here, it so far has a slow enough mutation that if we can act quickly enough, it will die out with no avenues of bypassing the vaccine. And the vaccines are at least partially if not almost as good against the Delta Variant depending which of the two you got. Moderna is showing the most promise and almost no decline in antibodies after 8 months.
Would you willing put your own mother's life at risk for the sake of letting employees where you shop not get vaccinated turning you into a carrier for the virus that could have been prevented in the first place if they were required to have the vaccine or even at a store which she shopped at getting directly infected and then dying of the virus. That is what I am asking, even if she was vaccinated and the chances of it were small. would you take that risk?
"At what point would you think the threshold of harm be for it to become a universal mandate irrespective of anything else?"
In this case, I wouldn't.
Presently, 89% of my country is vaccinated with 82% fully covered and booster rollouts beginning, and yet despite there was a 13.5% jump in the number of reported cases in the past week alone; most of these in areas where 80%+ of the population are double jabbed. Couple this with a .5% increase (up to 1.3 per 100k) in morbidity. From a low in May and in spite of very high levels of vaccination occurring during this period, new cases are presently up 3000% and during the same time period, weekly death rates have been steadily increasing- again all in spite of one of the most successful vaccine rollout yet put into place. One would imagine given that the prevalence of vaccinated people, all those numbers should be decreasing. Instead we're seeing the opposite. Conversely, hospitalization rates are down 15.9%. So we can begin to paint a picture.
From government data presented there, the vaccine does not appear to be effective in preventing transmission or asymptomatic carry. Instead, it does appear to be effective in mitigating some of the severity of the illness once contracted. So whilst I would still recommend to any asking to get the vaccine, it would be for your personal protection. Not for public protection, since it doesn't seem to be all that useful in creating a barrier to transmission that the ideal of public protection you're expounding would require.
Ergo I feel that the mandate is not only needlessly draconian; there's a bloody good chance it wouldn't work for its intended purpose. If this shit isn't working as advertised when people are actively complying of their own volition, what reason do you have to think that it would work when coerced?
"Actually it isn't unpredictable, it has already mutated into more transmittable forms even if the mortality hasn't gone up."
Unless you can produce a crystal ball that can adequately predict what changes to any of the ~30,000 SARS-CoV-2 RNA base pairs will have on relevant protein structures, whether that will alter viral or host sequencing, and in turn how that will interact with the host cells, I'm going to stand by that argument. The best that can be done is to conjecture based on observing previous coronavirus outbreaks, backed by known and understood characteristics of the virus in question, but beyond that there are too many variables to account for. We can say it will probably mutate, but not how or what effects that will have until able to observe them.
"The treatment is not worse"
This entire paragraph is what I have to call a strawman for lack of any better description. I was pretty explicitly arguing about the negative impacts of authoritarianism, not the medical side-effects of the vaccine.
"They will not be allowed to participate in those things and endanger the health and well being of the other part of the population who has taken measures to protect themselves and those around them."
Allowed. Allowed. Examine that word carefully and consider the implications of the government allowing you liberties, but only if you do what they tell you, then explain to me how that is not authoritarian.
This is not merely luxury events like conventions. We're talking restrictions on travel. Restrictions on employment. Restrictions on education and medical care. Unable in some cases even to purchase basic necessities to feed yourself. You are talking about creating a situation in which people who refuse to comply simply will not be allowed to participate in society with the rights of citizens, and done by government fiat. I've mentioned this several times but it bares reiterating; this is not ok. In any other context this would be rightfully described as deliberate persecution and marginalization of dissenters. The kind of crap you'd expect out of the CCP where a person simply ceases to be a person if the Party decrees.
"It is not Authoritarian when you have people who will actively put your life in harms way and companies and governments want to protect those people."
That is the essence of authoritarianism; an authoritarian never frames their hold on power as selfish. It is always for the good of someone, be it the Party of the People, or the Race, or some convenient nebulous deistic figure. If your only concern is for safety then the boot on your neck will certainly come with its own OTEXA certification.
I mentioned before that individual liberties must be the focus of society for this very reason. Societies with a focus on collective rights have historically been content to throw a portion of that society under the bus when they are no longer convenient. If your doctor wants to take measures he feels are appropriate for his safety, then by all means do so. But it is not on the government or any corporation to decide to shitcan segments of the population. Not under any circumstances. If it is allowed to happen for covid, then what next- the US isn't exactly the most stable place in the world right now.
At what point does safety cease to be a compelling argument and instead becomes oppressive?
"The reality is until the pandemic goes away things will never return to normal. And it won't go away until people get vaccinated and stop the spread."
"And the vaccines are at least partially if not almost as good against the Delta Variant depending which of the two you got."
" turning you into a carrier for the virus that could have been prevented in the first place if they were required to have the vaccine"
As noted above, it seems to do a decent job of protecting you personally. But over here most of the new cases are among people who've had the jab, and its accelerating rather than slowing down. Simply being vaccinated is not actually stopping this thing, just blunting the edge once you get it. With that I'm still inclined to think we're likely to be stuck with the virus for a good while yet regardless of what happens with the vaccines, maybe even permanently.
"That is what I am asking, even if she was vaccinated and the chances of it were small. would you take that risk? "
Hah, she'd encourage it. Retired nurse too, so I have to assume she knows the risks. She had a brush with death a year ago for reasons unrelated to covid and is firmly of the mindset now that life is too damn short to be spent in a bubble.
1. The federal gov't has in the past implemented mandatory vaccination for Small Pox, and that killed at a 1 in 3 rate. It remains the most deadly disease that humans have ever faced. And look, it eradicated it. It is no longer found in the outside normal human population. Unlike Measles and Polio which have had outbreaks because of reduced vaccination rates. And on top of that the Measles vaccine is becoming less effective as time goes on, but it is still rare because of how many people have the vaccine. And on national scale we are only at about 55.6% fully vaccinated, also consider that more people are traveling, some places no longer have a mask restriction and anti-vaxxer who are also anti-maskers are likely the people spreading it. I can certainly attest to this for how CO cases have gone up and that well over 50% of the new cases are in the unvaccinated, so the mask mandate came back, but unvaccinated people are still refusing to wear them putting others at great risk.
2. The Mandate is for the Federal government employees and its contractors as the Federal government is acting as an employer in this case and that OSHA is used to regulate the safety standards of employees at work, and those mandates and requirements seem to be a little looser in that there are exemptions or alternatives that will be required if people are not going to get vaccinated. But the companies, the private entities that are not the government, can still mandate the vaccine and fire people if they so desire.
3. I don't know where you got your data, but right now it is showing that the number of deaths and hospitalizations are significantly higher for unvaccinated people, up to 11x greater, putting their risk of death closer to 1 in 4; that is almost as bad as small pox. Link included for more data.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/cor.....-says/3265890/
4. As of August, both Moderna and Pfizer are showing lower but still significant levels of protection against the virus, while transmission is going up with the Delta variant, keep in mind there are a lot of other factors influencing it, like the lifting of mask mandates, schools reopening, increased travel, etc. Also Israel saw a similar jump and it is predicted that is what is happening now, because kids might be the reservoirs for the virus, and sending them back to in person classes where not all parents are going to report their kid having COVID to the school could be putting other people's lives at risk as a result. But again, as vaccine effectiveness goes down, vaccination rates need to go up to keep it from spreading, as seen with Measles and Polio. But further more, the more recent Swine Flu and H1N1 Flu crisis showed that people with the current flu vaccine and previous year's flu vaccines were far less likely to contract or transmit those two flu viruses; again showing why a vaccine mandate should be necessary because we could very easily get rid of it if we could just get enough people vaccinated. Everyone wants to get out of this pandemic and get back to their lives, and doing so is preventing the spread with mask wearing, other safety practice protocols, and especially vaccine getting. And yet the human population would rather let people die, hospitals be overrun, and literally have mass graves, rather than get a simple vaccine that doesn't cost them anything but some time.
5. It is working though, it is working as intended, it is protecting those who have gotten it, but again, it will keep spreading the longer people keep not getting it, and it will keep mutating the longer people go without getting it. Again, Measles is a great example here even with the reduced effectiveness of the vaccine, it is still relatively minor because of how many people have it, and it is mutating slower because it doesn't have the hosts to replicate in other than for the outbreaks in populations where the vaccine rate dipped below what was needed to maintain herd immunity. So we will have to keep making new vaccines for COVID the longer people go without getting the vaccine, and the people who keep getting it will keep surviving until enough people who refuse to get it are dead or until there is enough people to reach herd immunity.
6. You said treatment, treatment is the the vaccine, it works. If government mandates aren't the solution to getting people vaccinated what is? Do you have an alternative, or would you like to keep wearing masks for the next 5 to 10 years until enough people die from sheer stupidity? Because you have yet to offer a solution that would get us through the pandemic and back normalcy in less than 5 years. Or are you content to just go back to our daily lives like there isn't a global pandemic and see how many people die at the end and then compare numbers to the literal Plague.
7. As for not being allowed, I WAS in this case talking about companies, event planners, travel agencies, airliners, etc. requiring people to be fully vaccinated to do any of those things, not that the government was going to disallow people to do those things, but I am quite certain many companies will and already have.
8. I find it hard to believe that someone would be okay risking the death of their own family for the sake of letting someone chose to be stupid. I mean great fine, you don't want to live in a bubble, nor do I, but I also don't want someone to drink and drive and not be held accountable for killing my mother with their stupidity. Because to me that is what it is equivalent to, but because you can't trace it to the one person who came to work with COVID and didn't tell anyone, they can't be punished for it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/he.....er-2021-07-19/ <-- With the Correction
https://healthfeedback.org/claimrev.....inated-people/
Also for Good measure, a short Video posting Mid August by a Pediatrician and Professor of Pediatrics at the Indiana University of Medicine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4VnlXIiSeY
The video has notations in the video pointing to the exact article titles and journals those articles came from
So the per 100k people comparison is more accurate to reflecting the effectiveness of the vaccine; which is keeping a much higher number of vaccinated people out of the hospital and well protected.
Statistics is not an easy field of math to learn and it is not directly intuitive.
So for some hypothetical numbers for illustration; let's say your population is 1 million people. let's use the approximate 80% of people are fully vaccinated and the other 20% are not. So 800,000 people are vaccinated and 200,000 are not. And we are going to pretend this vaccine is 1 and done. so you either are or are not vaccinated. You have 1,000 cases in the hospital, and 60% are vaccinated and 40% of them are not. First glance tells us that the vaccine isn't working, but wait, 80% of your population is vaccinated, they make up 4/5's of your population that is almost everyone. So 600 people are vaccinated and 400 people are not, but those 600 people only make up 0.075% of the vaccinated population. The other 400 make up 0.2% of the unvaccinated population. That means they are 2.67 times more likely to be hospitalized than vaccinated people.
And right now with the COVID virus, unvaccinated people are 11x more likely to DIE than a vaccinated person, and hospitalization is 22x more likely in some areas of the US.
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036.....es-more-likely
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/09/1035.....covid-strategy
And something pointed out in this article is that people's refusal doesn't just cost the lives of themselves, it hurts everyone. If your stupid actions just hurt you fine, but if your stupid actions hurt someone else, that is where I draw the line.
It's 1 minute long, but the gist is the Mandate being required for non-federal employees and contractors is being done through OSHA which sets and regulates work safety standards which normally takes 6 - 10 years to make new rules. But the using and Emergency Temporary Standard can only be in effect for 6 months.
Also something small to point out, but kind of the crux of why getting people vaccinated as quickly as possible is such an issue, my pharmacist today at work mentioned some research which pointed to the Measles vaccine becoming less effective over time, but the only reason we still see such limited cases of it is because of the number of people who get it as an infant making it a near 100% vaccination rate providing a very heavy handed herd immunity to it thus limiting its spread even as the vaccines effectiveness diminishes.
The fact Small Pox is completely eradicated, and that other diseases like Polio and Measles are so limited should give more than enough credence to the need of having high vaccination rates, and because it isn't just about mortality but severe complication and permanent health changes that will also occur. And most companies don't want their employees to be a walking health risk to the safety of their patrons and other employees, So even if the government doesn't require the vaccine, a company might, and so will airlines, and event organizers for the safety of everyone who plans to attend or travel.
Science and everything around it is a constant evolution, it's only ever "we're sure enough within a given margin that we know this, but there's always room for something to alter that understanding further one day"
This is Biology 101. I highly recommend your review the section on how proteins are made.
Get your shot, damnit q_q
I like this funeral home's take on it x3
https://images.app.goo.gl/gRPHmmegZRLCXoHo7
No his mandate is not legal as its an attempt to make a law without going to the house of congress. Its also in violation of the Civil Rights act because it violates the religion of millions Americans such as sects of Christians and Muslims as well as those who have been given medical exemptions by their doctors who believe taking the vaccine could affect their health in a negative and damaging manner
These mandates largely apply to federal government employees and contract workers.
OSHA which is the regulatory agency in charge of work place can make regulatory rules requiring the vaccine or another measure to ensure workplace safety in a time of crisis. It has been done before back in the early 1900's with small pox being the concern at that time, a disease which people seem to have collectively forgotten had one of the highest death rates and high transmissibility. These mandates are nothing new.
As for religious exemptions, if you are using it as a religious exemption then you shouldn't be taking a whole host of other drugs such as azithromycin, Tylenol, ibuprofen, and etc because they used stem cell testing as well. So if you take any of those, then you are a hypocrite for your own exemption.
Or do what I did, speak on their level
I rarely delete things to preserve a record of things if needed. If quotes are needed or if simply to show people can and do change from previous arguments.
I will say this, a vast majority of the people who are dying from COVID are unvaccinated, and those numbers are readily accessible. A friend below who works in a hospital setting with coworkers who were hesitant at first, but after watching people die of something easily preventable, your attitude changes really fast. People where once against it and then had their parents or relatives die of it, change their tune pretty fast. And there are those who said it was a hoax and never got it themselves are now dead, in fact one of them was a pretty well known politician, and even Trump who claimed it was fake news also has the vaccine.
Boosters were just approved for Pfizer but only for people 65+, people 50+ with specific medical conditions, and select other groups. Moderna is not approved for boosters yet as those antibodies have not shown any sort of significant decline.
Some of it has become a lot of bickering back and forth and this is why I hate social media, but if companies can make you wear shirts and shoes to shop there, they can make ask you to wear masks, but many won't enforce it because in my home state, people have been shot at by anti-maskers. All I can ask people to do, is to do their research or at least listen to the people who work in the medical industry and are actual experts in Immunology and Virology.
Science is all about repeatable and verifiable experiments. While we sometimes have paradigm shifts because we suddenly discovered something we didn't know existed before. It was close observations that allowed John Snow to discover the cause of the Cholera outbreaks in his city. It was what allowed Newton to develop the Laws of Motion and INVENT calculus. It was what helped Einstein build his Theory of Relativity. It got us to the moon and back. I helped us eradicate Small Pox, it has kept Measles and Polio at bay.
You rely on the work of scientists and researchers everyday and take it for granted. If you use a cell phone or drive a car or hell even use a pully, you are using an invention that takes advantage of understanding the principles of the world around it, that is what science is.
I'm saying this through the lens of the trauma I have had to live with while my wife was in the hospital. She was a high risk patient, she was a type one diabetic and she had respiratory problems to begin with. I was forced to totally isolate to protect her. She was hospitalized when her o2 saturation started dropping. For almost 3 months we struggled with her in the hospital. To make this shorter I had to let her go, she died 7-26-2021.
She died of a lung infection that was causing pulmonary fibrosis and never had covid.
I couldn't have my family help me or any one over because of the risks. And she could only see her mother and father her last week because of all the risks tied to covid. The hospital had to move her to a different ecmo unit because of covid.
I can explain the price that is paid watching a loved one struggle on a ventilator. It's a constant reminder how bad this can be.
At minimum make sure you are making an informed decision, speak directly with your physician about it and go from there. Be safe.
All I can say is I am very sorry for your loss and that at least she is no longer suffering. You have my sympathies. *Hugs*
There are Supercomputers that are way more powerful then your standard PC.
There are public blockchains that are involved in protain folding, so even we can opt our PCs in to speed up the process.
Also as Nawka said, there already was info on this type of virus.
TL;DR We now have better tech that makes vaccine development faster.
I have family members who work in healthcare, the statistics really don't lie. Almost all the severe cases are among the unvaccinated. At this rate let them take their miracle chemicals and horse worm meds, natural selection will do the rest of the work for us, however long that will take. . .
I hope Adleisio makes more journals like this. It's actually pretty fun messing with the more dumb commenters.
I mean, I try to steer them in a better direction. Don't think it works, but it's fun to write down and see their reaction.
If there's nobody out there to help people see a kinder and better life for both parties. Then the evil that's corrupted keeps spreading, and boiling up until it becomes unstoppable.
When that evil turns against the people that nurtured it and destroys everyone in its path. Then, nobody wins.
In a less pretentious way of describing what I just said. COVID isn't just going to wipe out the "Stupid Conservatives" and be gone. It's going to mutant and come after you and your loved ones.
Any grandstanding about ideology is moot when everyone is dead.
Here's a few overarching things I'd like to list:
All of their arguments that the Anti-Vax commenters either cancel each other out, or they completely ignore any arguments that Pro-Vaxxers say and make it out like they said something else. And while I can say I don't know about the side effects of the Vaccine (aside from my own experiences). I don't know the science of it very well. I'm not a doctor.
But, I can say that obviously, the Pro-Vax side is in the right. Because their arguments follow a simple sense of logic and common sense. The stories and arguments are consistent and they usually match up with each other. While the Anti-Vax narrative is full of holes, always changing, contradicts itself, and can be torn apart once some thought goes into it.
When one person brought up illegal immigrants and why they don't get the vaccine (Aka, COVID is only a concern when non-white non-protestant foreigners come in). I could say that the reason why the immigrants don't get the vaccine is because they're not citizens. Because they're illegal or they never got the paperwork done. Obviously, Illegal Immigrants don't have the vaccine because they're in the country illegally. If they did try to get the vaccine, they would get deported.
The same person also mentioned that he and people like him are second-class citizens for not taking the vaccine. Like, dude, just take the vaccine
Like, in the situation he brought up, you're either going to die from blood clots, microchips, soy, etc or you're going to die from COVID. It doesn't matter. If the US Government was actively trying to prevent Conservatives from getting the vaccine. He would have a point. But that isn't what's happening. The government is begging these people to get the vaccine but they refuse to.
Lastly, if you wanted to think about rushed vaccines or unreliable governments experimenting on their own citizens. It actually happened with the US Government and the Tuskegee Experiments (Which, ironically, the usual suspects would have supported or brushed it under the rug).
To make things clear, the arguments made by the Anti-Vaxx side are made up entirely of hearsay, half-truths, memes, and rumors. Usually made up by groups that don't have their interests in heart, to which the Anti-Vaxxers think those said groups are their friends. Filling their heads with paranoid propaganda to sell cheap news and products. With said news often being written either by out-of-college liberals who just want a quick buck and a name to their resume or delusional Conservatives who are only in it for their own personal gain.
The Anti-Vaxxers like to call others "Sheep". Even if their own agendas active work to either scam them from their savings or actively tries to kill them for profit.
I'll just say this. I work at a hospital that mandated the vaccine a couple months ago. Out of the hundreds of employees who got it, not one reported anything more than the flu-like symptoms that are listed as a "common" side-effect. That's all I experienced too.
What I have been forced to watch, however, is people dying from Covid. Constantly. Two of my patients have died in the past couple weeks, and I just work on one unit a few days a week. This virus kills people, and almost everyone who's died has been unvaccinated. A lot of my coworkers were hesitant to get the vaccine back when it first came out, but now, not only have they all gotten it, but we're all ready and willing to get a booster if it's deemed necessary.
People need to get the vaccine and claw their way out of the Dunning-Kruger pit they're trapped in.
But something else my pharmacist pointed out is that the Measles vaccine we have is gradually becoming less effective, BUT the reason we still have nearly non-existent rates of it is because of how many people are vaccinated as a child against it, so with an almost 100% vaccination rate, it is just doesn't exist even with the vaccine's diminishing effectiveness. With that said, it also means if it ever mutates such that the vaccine is no longer effective, we are pretty well screwed until we can develop another vaccine for it. But silver lining is that that the mRNA vaccines give us a really easy to modify framework for making a new vaccine.
And think that point about the Measles is the biggest reasons why a mandate is needed and why we need to get people vaccinated like yesterday.
[Edit note: fixed the ambiguous pronoun usage for th Measles vaccine]
The internet is amazing for a host of reasons, but one of its biggest drawbacks is that it's created a legion of self-proclaimed autodidacts who feel they're more knowledgeable than experts with years of education and experience. This country has become a case study for pathological Dunning-Kruger effect, and it's causing more destruction than I think anyone realizes.
For the past few years, the "favorite quote" on my FA page has been "Wisdom may make you wise. Cleverness may make you clever. With just the wrong amount of each though, both may make you a fool." I have it there as a statement on the huge population of know-it-alls who think they're infallible that have come to the fore. These people are just smart enough to cause a shit-ton of damage, and it's costing lives.
But as pointed out to someone else, a lot of people don't think it is that bad until they have it or they have a family member die from it. The virus doesn't care if you believe in the science or not, it's not going to go, "ope this person doesn't believe I am that bad, guess I shouldn't infect them too badly."
I think Biden wasn't strong enough honestly. I think that there should be a universal mandate for anyone who doesn't have a legitimate medical reason not to get the vaccine. No religious exemptions. We don't offer exemptions to laws on human sacrifice, polygamy, bestiality, pedophilia, or executions for religious reasons, and polygamy doesn't even hurt anyone.
I find it tragically ironic that it's a lot of the same people who were positively SCREECHING about death panels and "The government better not come for my grandparents!!!" back when the ACA was passed who are necessitating death panels and robbing others of their grandparents now. I've run out of patience for the anti-vax bullshit and the misery it's causing, and I'm certainly out of sympathy to give for those who succumb to their own stupidity. All my sympathy is reserved for their victims, whom I am still treating.
There is only so much he can do, we have a limited government for a reason, but back in the early 1900's almost everyone was bipartisan on a mandate for the Small Pox vaccine, but again that was a 1 in 3 chance of death if you got it making anyone with it almost guaranteed to cause the death of one other person, but it also left very visible rash, so you could easily know who had it. It was also seen as your civic duty to wear a mask during the Spanish Flu pandemic which was only made as bad as it was because of the war.
The problem is that the Mask mandate never should have been lifted in the first place, they worked and worked well, but when it was lifted all the anti-maskers who were also anti-vaccine became a safe haven for the virus. I cannot tell you how many people came into our pharmacy for the vaccine not wearing a mask even though it was still a requirement to wear one if you were unvaccinated, but there is no one stopping and handing masks out, there is no one asking because people are too afraid of conflict because sadly in my home state, there have people shot at for being asked to wear a simple mask.