Musings on Generation: Skill vs "Skill"
General | Posted 2 weeks agoRecently, I had a minor ephiphone that I couldn't articulate til now, and will explain it through a reference to Pirates of the Caribbean.
How can we sail to an island that nobody can find, with a compass that doesn't work?
One of the criticisms leveled against generation is that it's not good because it doesn't take any skill. Anyone can just type "1girl, big booba anime waifu" into a generator, and get something out. I both agree and disagree with the skill argument.
Aye. The compass doesn't point north...
When viewed through a strictly artistic technique / knowledge lens, the criticism applies, and I agree with it; No skill is needed. Generation doesn't strictly require any knowledge of drawing elements (line, shape, form, color, value, space, texture, etc), nor does it require practice to learn. That's all baked in. That doesn't mean knowledge of said elements isn't useful. It's just not in the forefront.
So, how can I say I both disagree and agree with the skill criticism? Well...
... but we're not trying to find north, now are we?
Consider the following. When you're describing something, the way you describe what you're seeing only applies to you. It's subjective. The same description will have a different result when someone (or in this case, something) reads it. You don't know how what you said will be interpreted, or even if it was understood until you get some kind of feedback (whether it be a reply, or the output picture). If the result isn't what you want, then you can either try again, or change what you said. That second one... the ability to alter your description, your word choice, to guide who or what you're interacting with to your desired outcome, is where my point lies.
Drawing skill isn't required, communication skill is.
Consider "1girl, big booba anime waifu" from earlier. Yes... to a person, and when viewed through an artistic lens, that's low skill effortless copypasta garbage, and will yield such. However, it's not intended for you. It's not your 'north'. On the flipside, an overly verbose description may evoke a specific image to you, but is wasted if the other party doesn't understand it. This is why this aspect of generation feels weird to talk about; the perceived required skill set is completely different from one it partially requires. More simply: The skill set needed to draw a line is different than the skill set needed to tell someone how to draw the same line.
I will concede, and it's my opinion, that communication like that takes less skill than learning how to draw. However, less doesn't mean 0. Perceptual 0 isn't the same as actual 0.
That said, the only way to get an image 1:1 out of your head and on to paper... is to do it yourself by whatever means. Everything other method, regardless of how you get to the result, will be an approximation.
Regardless, I also agree that said content doesn't have a place here. Not my house, not my rules, and I'm not going to bend over backwards to convince anyone otherwise.
/endofrant.
How can we sail to an island that nobody can find, with a compass that doesn't work?
One of the criticisms leveled against generation is that it's not good because it doesn't take any skill. Anyone can just type "1girl, big booba anime waifu" into a generator, and get something out. I both agree and disagree with the skill argument.
Aye. The compass doesn't point north...
When viewed through a strictly artistic technique / knowledge lens, the criticism applies, and I agree with it; No skill is needed. Generation doesn't strictly require any knowledge of drawing elements (line, shape, form, color, value, space, texture, etc), nor does it require practice to learn. That's all baked in. That doesn't mean knowledge of said elements isn't useful. It's just not in the forefront.
So, how can I say I both disagree and agree with the skill criticism? Well...
... but we're not trying to find north, now are we?
Consider the following. When you're describing something, the way you describe what you're seeing only applies to you. It's subjective. The same description will have a different result when someone (or in this case, something) reads it. You don't know how what you said will be interpreted, or even if it was understood until you get some kind of feedback (whether it be a reply, or the output picture). If the result isn't what you want, then you can either try again, or change what you said. That second one... the ability to alter your description, your word choice, to guide who or what you're interacting with to your desired outcome, is where my point lies.
Drawing skill isn't required, communication skill is.
Consider "1girl, big booba anime waifu" from earlier. Yes... to a person, and when viewed through an artistic lens, that's low skill effortless copypasta garbage, and will yield such. However, it's not intended for you. It's not your 'north'. On the flipside, an overly verbose description may evoke a specific image to you, but is wasted if the other party doesn't understand it. This is why this aspect of generation feels weird to talk about; the perceived required skill set is completely different from one it partially requires. More simply: The skill set needed to draw a line is different than the skill set needed to tell someone how to draw the same line.
I will concede, and it's my opinion, that communication like that takes less skill than learning how to draw. However, less doesn't mean 0. Perceptual 0 isn't the same as actual 0.
That said, the only way to get an image 1:1 out of your head and on to paper... is to do it yourself by whatever means. Everything other method, regardless of how you get to the result, will be an approximation.
Regardless, I also agree that said content doesn't have a place here. Not my house, not my rules, and I'm not going to bend over backwards to convince anyone otherwise.
/endofrant.
"Your facebook account is about to be disabled..."
General | Posted a month agoMy thoughts on AI art.
General | Posted 2 years agoSo... I've been messing with generative art. My overall stance on it hasn't changed. If anything, it's kind of confirmed some of my initial thoughts / opinions.
TLDR: It's great for drafting / concepts, but fails at specifics / 1:1. There will always be a demand for those. Also... there will always be cursed images.
Artists and their jobs are safe
I'm going to be frank... the ability to type in words, and get an approximation of a picture is nothing short of amazing. That said, it flounders HARD when dealing with specifics. Before you say "You just need to use the right model." ... therein lies a problem. Which model do you suggest would get the results I'm seeking? If your response is to figure it out... then congrats, you don't either don't know, or do but refuse to say for some reason.
Its limited by its very nature
Computers are literal things. They will attempt to do whatever you tell them, even if they don't know what it is, or aren't physically capable of doing it. Nothing changes an AI is still running on a computer. This rigidity has lead to some of the more hilarious cursed images. (Harvesting Mountain Dew, Salmon in a river, and Futa Girl with a horse cock come to mind).
But what about "You just need to add tweak the prompts / weights"... NO! The ability to increase granularity does not rectify the initial problem. Furthermore... an actual artist doesn't consider word order.
AI generated art isn't copyrightable
"A work of art created by artificial intelligence, without any human input cannot be copyrighted under US Law". This doesn't mean it can't be sold (It can... much to my chagrin), however, you can't get a monopoly on it.
There is no such thing as an AI artist
Consider the following: You provide an artist information on what to draw. The artist creates an image based on that information. Can you then claim that you made that image? Now... same question, but replace "Artist" with "AI". Does your response change?
If you can claim you made an AI image, then you also have to claim you made any image you asked an artist to draw for you. To claim credit for something you didn't initially make is basically Art Theft, so why does "An AI did it" absolve that?
Training an AI using artist created images isn't theft
Theft implies a loss of property, or claiming you did something that you didn't. That said, I'd agree it's closer to tracing, or VERY HEAVY referencing, which are already frowned on to begin with. Did you reference other artists when you were learning? If so, was that stealing from them? Again, why does "AI" flip the claim?
Sites have the right to allow / disallow AI art
Though publicly accessible, places like FA are still privately run, and are allowed to dictate what is / isn't allowed on them. Don't like the rules? Tough. Go post that stuff someplace else.
TLDR: It's great for drafting / concepts, but fails at specifics / 1:1. There will always be a demand for those. Also... there will always be cursed images.
Artists and their jobs are safe
I'm going to be frank... the ability to type in words, and get an approximation of a picture is nothing short of amazing. That said, it flounders HARD when dealing with specifics. Before you say "You just need to use the right model." ... therein lies a problem. Which model do you suggest would get the results I'm seeking? If your response is to figure it out... then congrats, you don't either don't know, or do but refuse to say for some reason.
Its limited by its very nature
Computers are literal things. They will attempt to do whatever you tell them, even if they don't know what it is, or aren't physically capable of doing it. Nothing changes an AI is still running on a computer. This rigidity has lead to some of the more hilarious cursed images. (Harvesting Mountain Dew, Salmon in a river, and Futa Girl with a horse cock come to mind).
But what about "You just need to add tweak the prompts / weights"... NO! The ability to increase granularity does not rectify the initial problem. Furthermore... an actual artist doesn't consider word order.
AI generated art isn't copyrightable
"A work of art created by artificial intelligence, without any human input cannot be copyrighted under US Law". This doesn't mean it can't be sold (It can... much to my chagrin), however, you can't get a monopoly on it.
There is no such thing as an AI artist
Consider the following: You provide an artist information on what to draw. The artist creates an image based on that information. Can you then claim that you made that image? Now... same question, but replace "Artist" with "AI". Does your response change?
If you can claim you made an AI image, then you also have to claim you made any image you asked an artist to draw for you. To claim credit for something you didn't initially make is basically Art Theft, so why does "An AI did it" absolve that?
Training an AI using artist created images isn't theft
Theft implies a loss of property, or claiming you did something that you didn't. That said, I'd agree it's closer to tracing, or VERY HEAVY referencing, which are already frowned on to begin with. Did you reference other artists when you were learning? If so, was that stealing from them? Again, why does "AI" flip the claim?
Sites have the right to allow / disallow AI art
Though publicly accessible, places like FA are still privately run, and are allowed to dictate what is / isn't allowed on them. Don't like the rules? Tough. Go post that stuff someplace else.
Questions I never see an answer to...
General | Posted 2 years agoWhy do you deserve patronage over someone else doing the same thing as you, for the same reasons as you?
Corollary: If you believe the above is entitlement, isn't refusing to answer the above also entitlement?
Corollary: If I do support you, will you create something I would normally pay you for? If so, when would it arrive?
If you're not doing it for the money, why not release it for free?
Corollary: If it's because you don't want to disappoint your supporters (the people paying you), isn't that doing it for the money (because they're paying you)?
Corollary: Then why relocate things after a week, making people pay for something they couldn't get to... while they were paying you for the privilege of getting to see that thing to begin with?
What's the point of paywalling a commission? It's already been paid for...
Corollary: Isn't it more work to make alternates? Why don't you charge for those?
Corollary: What's the point of asking people to pay you for the ability to pay you?
Inquiring minds want to know ;)
Corollary: If you believe the above is entitlement, isn't refusing to answer the above also entitlement?
Corollary: If I do support you, will you create something I would normally pay you for? If so, when would it arrive?
If you're not doing it for the money, why not release it for free?
Corollary: If it's because you don't want to disappoint your supporters (the people paying you), isn't that doing it for the money (because they're paying you)?
Corollary: Then why relocate things after a week, making people pay for something they couldn't get to... while they were paying you for the privilege of getting to see that thing to begin with?
What's the point of paywalling a commission? It's already been paid for...
Corollary: Isn't it more work to make alternates? Why don't you charge for those?
Corollary: What's the point of asking people to pay you for the ability to pay you?
Inquiring minds want to know ;)
Rant / Opinion: Alternate Versions
General | Posted 3 years agoI recall seeing a picture on here that tried to justify paywalling alternate versions of images, saying "It's a lot of work to make them."
I disagree with that statement to a point.
Consider a solo pin-up image. You want to make a clothed and an alternate nude version. One method is to redraw the whole image. This is dumb, since you're redoing the same thing with minor changes for minimal gain. In the digital world... we have a way to deal with this: layers.
For purposes of this, lets assume a 'layer' is a final composited image (I know a lot of layers go into a final image). You draw the nude character on one layer, and a 2 piece bikini on another layer. Congrats, you've just made an alternate version with a LOT less work.
Now, in Photoshop, lasso select either the top or bottom of the bikini, right click, click 'copy to new layer', then delete the difference from the old layer, making 3 layers total. How many versions can you now make with the same amount of work you did as above? 4; Clothed, Topless, Bottomless, Nude.
Next, lets add something else. Say... a zip-up (but open) hoodie. Combined with the above, how many versions can you make? 8; Clothed, Clothed Hoodie, Topless, Topless Hoodie, Bottomless, Bottomless Hoodie, Nude, and Nude Hoodie (as counterintuitive as that is).
Add stockings; 16 versions. Add gloves; 32 versions.
See a pattern? The maximum possible number of versions is 2^(n-1), where n is the number layers in the image. This doesn't factor in versions that wouldn't work (EG: small top on big chest). I've seen someone put out a picture with 98 versions. This is possible with at least 8 layers. 2^(8-1) = 2^7 = 128.
Don't believe me? Take the nude and clothed version of a picture, put them on top of each other in your favorite image program (Gimp, PS, Krita, etc). You could just switch the top layer on and off, but there's a more visible way: Set the top layer to 'difference' blending. Anything that's the same will be black, while differences will be highlighted. The brighter the highlight, the greater the difference. If they were truly redrawing the image each time, more than just the clothing would be visible, since it's impossible to perfectly replicate something by hand.
In the case of a character color change, look at the background, and see if it's any different.
I won't deny that making art takes a lot of time, effort, and work, and that making alternate versions is part of that. However, to me, it comes across as disingenuous when it's framed as this magical, time consuming task, when all that's being done is toggling various bits on and off (a process that in itself could be automated).
I disagree with that statement to a point.
Consider a solo pin-up image. You want to make a clothed and an alternate nude version. One method is to redraw the whole image. This is dumb, since you're redoing the same thing with minor changes for minimal gain. In the digital world... we have a way to deal with this: layers.
For purposes of this, lets assume a 'layer' is a final composited image (I know a lot of layers go into a final image). You draw the nude character on one layer, and a 2 piece bikini on another layer. Congrats, you've just made an alternate version with a LOT less work.
Now, in Photoshop, lasso select either the top or bottom of the bikini, right click, click 'copy to new layer', then delete the difference from the old layer, making 3 layers total. How many versions can you now make with the same amount of work you did as above? 4; Clothed, Topless, Bottomless, Nude.
Next, lets add something else. Say... a zip-up (but open) hoodie. Combined with the above, how many versions can you make? 8; Clothed, Clothed Hoodie, Topless, Topless Hoodie, Bottomless, Bottomless Hoodie, Nude, and Nude Hoodie (as counterintuitive as that is).
Add stockings; 16 versions. Add gloves; 32 versions.
See a pattern? The maximum possible number of versions is 2^(n-1), where n is the number layers in the image. This doesn't factor in versions that wouldn't work (EG: small top on big chest). I've seen someone put out a picture with 98 versions. This is possible with at least 8 layers. 2^(8-1) = 2^7 = 128.
Don't believe me? Take the nude and clothed version of a picture, put them on top of each other in your favorite image program (Gimp, PS, Krita, etc). You could just switch the top layer on and off, but there's a more visible way: Set the top layer to 'difference' blending. Anything that's the same will be black, while differences will be highlighted. The brighter the highlight, the greater the difference. If they were truly redrawing the image each time, more than just the clothing would be visible, since it's impossible to perfectly replicate something by hand.
In the case of a character color change, look at the background, and see if it's any different.
I won't deny that making art takes a lot of time, effort, and work, and that making alternate versions is part of that. However, to me, it comes across as disingenuous when it's framed as this magical, time consuming task, when all that's being done is toggling various bits on and off (a process that in itself could be automated).
Cake Day!
General | Posted 3 years ago*insert cake emoji here*
Burnt Out and Other Things :(
General | Posted 4 years agoI usually don't like posting personal life stuff... but things have been... hectic.
Mid August 2021, I lost my job, and haven't had any luck finding another one, even with the help of a job agency. I feel alone in the respect of not liking remote work, and so many saying "pay rate unavailable".
To top that off, my brother got Covid in December, and died earlier this month, and didn't have some effects in order. So... I'm having to deal with tangential stress.
Been trying to watch art streams. However, I'm not enjoying it like I used to. It just feels... blah :(.
I'm also having issues trying to get back into things as is. Like... sitting down, picking up a pen, and just... nothing. I feel burnt out on 3d stuff too.
So... yeah, I'm in a bit of a rough spot right now
/end rant
Mid August 2021, I lost my job, and haven't had any luck finding another one, even with the help of a job agency. I feel alone in the respect of not liking remote work, and so many saying "pay rate unavailable".
To top that off, my brother got Covid in December, and died earlier this month, and didn't have some effects in order. So... I'm having to deal with tangential stress.
Been trying to watch art streams. However, I'm not enjoying it like I used to. It just feels... blah :(.
I'm also having issues trying to get back into things as is. Like... sitting down, picking up a pen, and just... nothing. I feel burnt out on 3d stuff too.
So... yeah, I'm in a bit of a rough spot right now
/end rant
Drawing vs 3D observations
General | Posted 4 years ago* 3D is harder to get started, but easier to work with once a character is done (since you don't need to remake the model each time)
* Setting poses up is easy, but you occasionally fight with the model to get a limb to bend right (moreso if IK is involved)
* The same creator can do things different ways with different models, making some tasks different (The orientation of a bone does affect how it rotates in local space).
And... on a more personal note:
* I have more fun drawing women, but 3d posing men. This is likely due to curves being easier than straight lines. Also... more interesting opportunities for creative blocking ^^;
* Setting poses up is easy, but you occasionally fight with the model to get a limb to bend right (moreso if IK is involved)
* The same creator can do things different ways with different models, making some tasks different (The orientation of a bone does affect how it rotates in local space).
And... on a more personal note:
* I have more fun drawing women, but 3d posing men. This is likely due to curves being easier than straight lines. Also... more interesting opportunities for creative blocking ^^;
Advice for getting back into things?
General | Posted 5 years agoSo... I'm trying to pick up a pen again, and get back to things. It's not going well x.x
Any advice / suggestions?
Any advice / suggestions?
[Minor Rant] The cost of being a fan: End of 2020 edition
General | Posted 5 years agoA few years ago, I ran an experiment asking how much per month it is to be a 'true fan' and supporting everyone asking for money per month. Near the end of 2020, I opted to run it again, just to see how much things have changed. Rather than tell... I'm going to show too: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/39935405/
The more things have changed, the more things stayed the same.
The more things have changed, the more things stayed the same.
Comics are hard...
General | Posted 5 years agoSo... I've been messing with 'small series' stuff for a bit. I have things I haven't posted, cause... well... not to happy with how quick things escalated. Decided to try my hand at something akin to a comic...
25 pages, and I'm still not done x.x. Comic writing is hard.
25 pages, and I'm still not done x.x. Comic writing is hard.
Ya know what's frustrating...
General | Posted 5 years ago... when you start a sketch and like it. Then when you go to actually work on it, it feels like you hit a brick wall x.x
Cake day!
General | Posted 5 years ago"Your age has increased by +1"
Ideas...
General | Posted 5 years ago... so... I'm considering attempting a doodle of a Maned Wolf...
... suggestions?
... suggestions?
[Minor Rant] Ads...
General | Posted 5 years agoI feel like there's a LOT of advertisements anymore. Not website banner ads....
Gallery ads...
Ads for commission slots
Ads for auctions
Ads for character slots
Ads for adopts
Ads for the persons' store
Ads for the persons' personal art as a service subscription
Ads announcing the above ads exist...
... as well as some of the above only being available to paid subscribers, so why announce it publicly if it's only available privately?
It's like... I watch an artist to see what they do, to inspire me... to see what create, to watch them have fun and take pride in what they did. Now... it feels like a sales pitch. "You've seen what I do, now pay me to see more of what I do" and stuff is shoveled out to meet personal quotas.
I dunno who said this, but here's a fundamental question:
"Do you create to make money, or do you make money to create?"
And... before any 'entitlement' comes up... a follow up question:
"I have 200+ people asking me for money every month. Why are you entitled to my support over one of them?" Entitlement goes both ways... after all.
Gallery ads...
Ads for commission slots
Ads for auctions
Ads for character slots
Ads for adopts
Ads for the persons' store
Ads for the persons' personal art as a service subscription
Ads announcing the above ads exist...
... as well as some of the above only being available to paid subscribers, so why announce it publicly if it's only available privately?
It's like... I watch an artist to see what they do, to inspire me... to see what create, to watch them have fun and take pride in what they did. Now... it feels like a sales pitch. "You've seen what I do, now pay me to see more of what I do" and stuff is shoveled out to meet personal quotas.
I dunno who said this, but here's a fundamental question:
"Do you create to make money, or do you make money to create?"
And... before any 'entitlement' comes up... a follow up question:
"I have 200+ people asking me for money every month. Why are you entitled to my support over one of them?" Entitlement goes both ways... after all.
I got myself a Discord
General | Posted 6 years ago... and am looking for places and peeps*
*disclamer: marshmallow peeps may also accepted :)
*disclamer: marshmallow peeps may also accepted :)
So... birds...
General | Posted 6 years agoOdd question... what would be the best way to do birds... specifically arms and hands?
Normal arms with talons for hands and wings on the back?
Hands / talons with the actual wings extending off the wrists?
Cartoonish, where the flight feathers are the fingers?
#Ideafishing
Normal arms with talons for hands and wings on the back?
Hands / talons with the actual wings extending off the wrists?
Cartoonish, where the flight feathers are the fingers?
#Ideafishing
Gotta pick up a pen again...
General | Posted 6 years agoJust gotta find the muse... or the scraps of it that are left some days. 3d stuff is fun... but it's missing a personal touch, and it's hard to make things that don't clip into themselves.
Stress sucks
General | Posted 6 years agoIt really does... sucks all drive out of you, makes you tired, and a lot of other things x.x
About 3d stuff...
General | Posted 6 years agoI dunno why... but it's been kind of relaxing to work with. Finding pieces, putting them together... tinkering is fun.
There have been obvious issues though. Mainly that it's been a pain trying to find good models that are... sequestered away for various reasons. I'm tempted to ask for some I've seen floating around, but doubt that will go anywhere.
Regardless... Drawing is still on my mind, but the computer I use to do it doesn't like the tablet drivers at the moment. Stupid Wacom drivers
There have been obvious issues though. Mainly that it's been a pain trying to find good models that are... sequestered away for various reasons. I'm tempted to ask for some I've seen floating around, but doubt that will go anywhere.
Regardless... Drawing is still on my mind, but the computer I use to do it doesn't like the tablet drivers at the moment. Stupid Wacom drivers
Huzzah Cake day
General | Posted 6 years agoThat is all :)
I don't like being so slow :(
General | Posted 6 years agoI think part of the reason I get so... dejected... when drawing is it takes to damn long to get anywhere. Maybe I'm refining to much... or trying to be to perfect...
... any suggestions / advice to try and go faster while getting the same results?
... any suggestions / advice to try and go faster while getting the same results?
Working with 3d stuff is hard... x.x
General | Posted 6 years agoIt is... whether it's already made, or you make it yourself. Moreso when you're trying to make sure parts don't clip into themselves...
Wheeee...
General | Posted 6 years agoArt procrastination... GO AWAY!
So... BL3 would have been a good self present... [Rant]
General | Posted 6 years agoExcept that... well... Epic Store is a thing...
I wrote a journal a while back on my initial thoughts on the store. Looking back, some of my points still stand, but others seem misinformed.
Competition
My initial point still stands. Steam has very little in the way of competition. The only competitors I know of at the moment are GoG and Humble Bundle. You could argue that the presence of another store selling games is competition... but there's a flaw in that argument.
Competition requires overlap.
If it was competition, games would release on both storefronts around the same time, but at different rates. Say... $60 on one store, and $50 on the other. But that's not what Epic is doing. What they're doing is more akin to extortion. Best guess: paying for an equivalent of x sales up front in exchange for 1 year of exclusivity.
The Outer worlds: Announced for Steam, but is now set to be a 1 year exclusive.
Metro Last Light:... had pre-oreders on Steam, but was pulled just before launching. Retail copies have stickers put on physical copies.
Phoenix point. Kickstarted, and had the promise of steam keys. The devs have admitted all the kickstarters could request a refund, and they'd still be in the black.
But Steam takes 30%. Epic only takes 18%. That's more money for the devs!
I see 3 issues with this argument:
1: Google Play, Spotify, and the Apple Store also take 30%. From what I understand, that's a common profit margin.
2: The cut only applies to things purchased through Steam itself. Steam doesn't get a cut if you purchased a key from outside of it (GoG, Humble, Etc. I thought it was odd that it distinguished retail keys from digital keys...).
3: This is speculation, so take this with a grain of salt. If money goes from store to publisher, then publisher to developer, what's the publishers cut? What's to stop the publisher from taking more, leaving the actual devs with the same remainder than if the store took more and publishers took less? Look at the music industry. Most of the cut after sales goes to the labels, not the artists. Besides... Sweeny himself said the store is trying to cater to publishers... not developers... or consumers for that matter...
I don't see the big deal in installing another program
1: There are users who don't like superfluous programs on their systems. I understand that Steam does fall into this category. However...
2: It's not just a program, it's a service. A service that requires an account with access to financial data. A service whose parent company has had security issues. Steam wasn't perfect in the beginning, and has had its share of breaches. However... 14 years does have its advantages.
Piracy / Boycott...
I don't think sailing the 7 seas or boycotting the games completely will work. In my opinion, both of those will lead to the same outcome; sales will only come in on the non-favored store, which will discourage releases on other storefronts.
The adage 'vote with your wallet', I think, is the best option. If you're going to get the game, get it from your preferred store front. I think if sales are greater from non-favored fronts... it may send a message. Again... market share.
But Metro sold 2.5x as much on Epic as Steam...
1: Comparing 2014 data from product A to 2019 data from product B doesn't provide grounds for an accurate comparison.
2: Stating a multiplier does no good without raw data. I could argue I made 2.5x more sales if I sold 5 things on store B, as compared to 2 on store A.
---
It's not the idea of another store that's the issue, nor is it a loyalty issue. It's the way the store is going about trying to establish itself... by any means necessary. I get that underhanded tactics work, but what's the long term cost of them?
I wrote a journal a while back on my initial thoughts on the store. Looking back, some of my points still stand, but others seem misinformed.
Competition
My initial point still stands. Steam has very little in the way of competition. The only competitors I know of at the moment are GoG and Humble Bundle. You could argue that the presence of another store selling games is competition... but there's a flaw in that argument.
Competition requires overlap.
If it was competition, games would release on both storefronts around the same time, but at different rates. Say... $60 on one store, and $50 on the other. But that's not what Epic is doing. What they're doing is more akin to extortion. Best guess: paying for an equivalent of x sales up front in exchange for 1 year of exclusivity.
The Outer worlds: Announced for Steam, but is now set to be a 1 year exclusive.
Metro Last Light:... had pre-oreders on Steam, but was pulled just before launching. Retail copies have stickers put on physical copies.
Phoenix point. Kickstarted, and had the promise of steam keys. The devs have admitted all the kickstarters could request a refund, and they'd still be in the black.
But Steam takes 30%. Epic only takes 18%. That's more money for the devs!
I see 3 issues with this argument:
1: Google Play, Spotify, and the Apple Store also take 30%. From what I understand, that's a common profit margin.
2: The cut only applies to things purchased through Steam itself. Steam doesn't get a cut if you purchased a key from outside of it (GoG, Humble, Etc. I thought it was odd that it distinguished retail keys from digital keys...).
3: This is speculation, so take this with a grain of salt. If money goes from store to publisher, then publisher to developer, what's the publishers cut? What's to stop the publisher from taking more, leaving the actual devs with the same remainder than if the store took more and publishers took less? Look at the music industry. Most of the cut after sales goes to the labels, not the artists. Besides... Sweeny himself said the store is trying to cater to publishers... not developers... or consumers for that matter...
I don't see the big deal in installing another program
1: There are users who don't like superfluous programs on their systems. I understand that Steam does fall into this category. However...
2: It's not just a program, it's a service. A service that requires an account with access to financial data. A service whose parent company has had security issues. Steam wasn't perfect in the beginning, and has had its share of breaches. However... 14 years does have its advantages.
Piracy / Boycott...
I don't think sailing the 7 seas or boycotting the games completely will work. In my opinion, both of those will lead to the same outcome; sales will only come in on the non-favored store, which will discourage releases on other storefronts.
The adage 'vote with your wallet', I think, is the best option. If you're going to get the game, get it from your preferred store front. I think if sales are greater from non-favored fronts... it may send a message. Again... market share.
But Metro sold 2.5x as much on Epic as Steam...
1: Comparing 2014 data from product A to 2019 data from product B doesn't provide grounds for an accurate comparison.
2: Stating a multiplier does no good without raw data. I could argue I made 2.5x more sales if I sold 5 things on store B, as compared to 2 on store A.
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It's not the idea of another store that's the issue, nor is it a loyalty issue. It's the way the store is going about trying to establish itself... by any means necessary. I get that underhanded tactics work, but what's the long term cost of them?
FA+
