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Why are the people around me mad?
Posted 13 years agoI know a guy called Buz.
He was once involved in an incident with the police after he went into Tesco dressed as a giant banana, taking the fruit out of people's baskets and saying 'don't kill my babies!!!!'
He went through a period of carrying a saxophone case around with him, even though he doesn't play. When we opened it, there was a gollywog inside. And he's black.
He never wears matching shoes, ALWAYS one brown, one black.
The other day, I saw him and he was wearing a tweed jacket, a bowler hat, and was carrying a walking cane.
One time, he arranged for the entire crowd at a show that we were putting on to have face masks made of the man in the show, and to all put them on at once to freak the guy out.
He also spent a period of time dressing as a genie.
He shaves off all his facial hair and draws on whatever style he wants with permanent marker. One time, we said we'd draw him a beard on, but just drew a penis on the side of his face instead.
Why is everyone I know so strange?
He was once involved in an incident with the police after he went into Tesco dressed as a giant banana, taking the fruit out of people's baskets and saying 'don't kill my babies!!!!'
He went through a period of carrying a saxophone case around with him, even though he doesn't play. When we opened it, there was a gollywog inside. And he's black.
He never wears matching shoes, ALWAYS one brown, one black.
The other day, I saw him and he was wearing a tweed jacket, a bowler hat, and was carrying a walking cane.
One time, he arranged for the entire crowd at a show that we were putting on to have face masks made of the man in the show, and to all put them on at once to freak the guy out.
He also spent a period of time dressing as a genie.
He shaves off all his facial hair and draws on whatever style he wants with permanent marker. One time, we said we'd draw him a beard on, but just drew a penis on the side of his face instead.
Why is everyone I know so strange?
about dobes and cropping/docking
Posted 13 years agoOk, as I have a doberman pup, I want to clear up this docking and cropping issue, since it seems that I can't mention the pup's breed ANYWHERE online (except maybe a very isolated UK only forum) without someone bringing it up.
I really don't want to have to constantly argue this issue, nor do I want regular comments left on pics of him which ask 'why isn't he cropped/docked' or even the one I see often on natural dobes 'shame about the ears/tail'.
So....these are the facts, and my whole view on this thing, so hopefully I won't have to deal with too much trouble relating to this issue.
It is important to realise the most important point here: cropping of ears and docking of tails is ILLEGAL in the UK. I couldn't do it to my pup even if I wanted to.
If you want a dobe with a docked tail here, you have to either import an already docked dog from a country where it is permitted, or find a breeder who whelps the litter outside of the UK.
Some breeders send the bitch to Northern Ireland to welp, as they can still legally dock the tail there.
Or, you could rescue an older dobe that was docked prior to the ban, which I believe came in in 2006.
There is an exemption in the UK for 'working dogs'. If you can prove that the pup is going to be used for working, they can make an exception and you may still be able to dock.
But this primarily goes along with gundog breeds, who are still used for their original purpose fairly often here. A dobe would be a much harder breed to prove 'working status' of.
It is rare to see any puppy with a docked tail in the UK now. I've not seen one for years now, so even the number of exempt 'working dogs' is low.
Thats it. There is no other legal way to get a docked dog.
If you have one, you'll also probably wish you didn't: you WILL get stopped in the street and quizzed on why your puppy is docked, as well as probably getting a lot of evil looks from those who don't stop to ask.
As for ear cropping, that is also illegal here, and has been for a loooooong time, at least since I've been alive.
Its not an issue here. Virtually no-one owns a cropped dog, of any breed (if they do, it will have been imported), and most people in the UK will never have seen one.
Most won't even know what ear cropping is or that such a thing is done. Most average UK folk would look at you with disgust if you told them there is a practise where a puppies ears are cut, then taped to make them stand upright. Its just not recognised here. A dobe with cropped ears here would have people constantly asking you what breed it was.
Despite me informing people of the laws here, people still see fit to argue the toss with me about how it 'should' be done, and the laws are stupid, usually for the following reasons.
1. But an undocked/uncropped dobe doesn't look like a dobe!
It does here. It might be an issue in the USA, but here, a natural dobe is the dobe we know.
Some people here still recognise the docked tail as a dobe thing, as the ban only came into effect here a few years back.
But a dobe with cropped ears in the UK would likely be thought of as a cross-breed by the average member of the public, as we do not associate the dobe with pointed ears: they're a dropped eared breed here.
I know that before I learned about ear cropping, I'd seen cropped dobes online and just assumed they were cross-breeds, as I didn't think there was any way to get a floppy eared dog's ears to stand.
In fact, my breeder owns a cropped dog, imported, and when he took it to the vet, they weren't even sure what breed he was, because its that alien to us.
2. The 'natural dobe' isn't what Mr. Dobermann intended when he created the breed!
He also created a dog that was black and tan, not red, blue, fawn, or white. And yet people who are pro-cropping still own red dobes, or any of the other colours. If one is so concerned with what Mr. Dobermann wanted for the breed, they would only own black and tan dogs.
The first original dobe pics show a dog with very short cropped ears, of the 'military' style of crop.
Yet most dobes that are cropped are done with the longer 'pet' or 'show' crop, again, not what Mr Dobermann probably intended either!
Added to which, look at the photos of the first original dobes compared to the dobes of today: they didn't look exactly like they look now. We have refined and altered this breed in several ways since it first appeared on the scene.
One either has to be a purist, and stick only to what mr Dobermann intended, which would be strictly only a black and tan dog with a military crop, or one has to just get over it and accept that the dog is a different dog now and stop using this excuse to justify cropping and docking.
It funny how people ignore other features that Herr Dobermann intended, but become purist when it comes to the ears and tail.
3. Cropping and docking are for health reasons!
Not so.
There was a time when people thought cropping the ears resulted in less ear infections, but this has been de-bunked, and fortunately, few people still use this argument, even the fiercest pro-cropper, because it holds so little water.
In fact, it has been suggested that cropping the ears of a naturally dropped-eared breed actually increases the chances of ear infections as it creates an open ear, but without any of the protective hair that usually accompanies naturally pricked-ear breeds.
As for the tail, it is claimed that dogs with tails left in tact will eventually break or damage the tail, and it is removed to prevent this damage.
But this is also not proven.
And in fact, some of the breeds that most commonly DO suffer from tail injuries are NOT breeds that are typically required to be docked anyway!
There is no docking requirement for any sight-hound, or dalmatians, or a number of other breeds with thin tails. If this were done purely for health reasons, wouldn't these breeds be docked too?
I saw a number of greyhounds with 'happy tail' when I worked at the vets, but no-one proposes docking this breed. Kinda puts the 'its purely to prevent injury' argument out of the picture.
If this were the case, and docking was purely for the welfare of the dog, we'd have other breeds being routinely docked, with greyhounds topping that list.
We don't.
These days, cropping and docking, particularly on dobes, are just for appearance, no other reason.
Dobes were originally cropped and docked, allegedly, to make it harder for an intruder to 'grab hold of a tail or ears' when fighting against the dog.
This may or may not have been true, though to be honest, if a fully grown dobe was racing for me, I wouldn't be trying to grab around its head or rear end, I'd be retreating, quickly.
Most dobes these days are pets or show dogs, and not called upon to do the job they were originally bred for, making these procedures even less relevent.
Some say it was done to make the dog look more alert, which I can buy, as it possibly does. But if one's dobe is a pet only, who cares how 'alert' it looks? And I know there is no mistake with how alert Dresden looks when I have treats to hand, even with his floppy ears!
4. Cropping and docking are not risky or painful for a dog, so what is the issue even if it is just for looks?
I do not agree.
Even if the pain and distress is minimal, why put a pup through this when it isn't necessary?
I actually have less of a concern about tail docking than I do about ear cropping. While I still don't agree with either of them, tail docking at least, if done via banding, is performed on a very young pup, does not require anaesthetic, and is completed relatively quickly.
Ear cropping, however, not only requires an anaesthetic, but weeks of posting and taping of the ears (the longer show crops can take months of this in order to stand properly).
Any anaesthetic on an animal carries a risk. On a young pup, this risk is even bigger.
I have read tragic stories on doberman forums where a couple of pups have actually died while under the anaesthetic for their ear crop.
I've read even more stories about pups who have had infection problems in the ears following the op, or problems where the ears never stood, leaving the dog with permanently mangled ears.
I do not know why anyone would take this risk with their pup, for nothing more than cosmetic reasons.
As responsible pet owners, it is our job to limit the risks to our pets as much as possible.
Ear cropping, to me, seems to be putting a pup at risk for no good reason. Cosmetic reasons are not good reasons, as far as Im concerned.
Others would disagree and consider that having their dog look a certain way is worth the risk to said dog.
I don't know that the dog would agree, and I certainly wouldn't want someone making a decision like that on my behalf, and putting me through an operation just because they didn't like the way I looked naturally.
How about if I wanted to have surgery on the ears of my dumbo rats to make them look top-eared, would that be acceptable? Likely not. I don't see why it is with dogs, other than for purposes of 'tradition' and human vanity. Neither seem important enough, to me, to risk the welfare of my dog.
Not to mention the taping and posting process, which seems pretty intrusive to a young pup, who should be focused on playing, learning and being socialised. I am concerned about the effect such an invasive procedure has on a pup at that impressionable age.
5. If a dobe is not cropped and docked, it has far less chance of ever being adopted if it ends up in rescue in the USA.
Sadly, Im not doubting that this is the case.
But to use this as justification for cropping and docking your own pup seems, to me, like admitting that you might end up giving your pup up to rescue later on!
Any pup bought from a GOOD breeder would be purchased under the condition that it is returned to the breeder if it can no longer be kept, hence obliterating the chance of it ending up in rescue.
Added to which, there are as many people in the USA who oppose these ops as there are people in the UK, and I have met many a USA resident who would like to own a natural dobe, but find it extremely hard to source one out. There is a market for natural dobes in the USA, and to claim there isn't is ignorant.
The pro docking and cropping lot like to claim that their 'choice' to crop/dock is under threat by people like me. They like to harp on about 'choice'.
But what of the choice of those who want a natural dog? Just try finding a good breeder in the USA who will leave you a pup natural. Pups are docked, and the cropping done before the owner even picks up their new pup. So much for 'choice' there.
If one is going to put so much importance on 'choice', they should be more supportive of people who choose not to dock and crop a whole litter, but try going on a USA dobe forum as a breeder and telling them you're leaving your entire litter natural.
You'd get ripped a new one.
Choice does not exist on this issue. If you are good pet owner in the USA who wants to do the right thing and buy a well bred pup from a reputable breeder, you are highly unlikely to get this 'choice' the pro-cropping/docking lot go on about being so important.
6. Why would someone oppose cropping and docking but be pro neutering? Isn't that a non-consentual op as well?
The two are not really comparable.
People don't neuter dogs for cosmetic reasons, or for their own vanity, there are a lot of reasons why people choose to neuter, and apperance is not one!
For me, personally, I do not advocate routine castration for male dogs. I see no reason to castrate a dog as a matter of course, if there is no medical or behavioural reason to do so.
Castration can carry its own set of health problems, so if someone is able to cope with an entire male, and keep him away from females, I see no need to castrate him any more than I would castrate a healthy, adult human male.
For bitches, it isn't that clear cut, and I do generally support spaying a bitch, as the health benefits of spaying are far more significant.
But regardless, people tend to neuter because they believe it is ultimately for the good of the dog species and prevents over-population, and for bitches, prevents pyometra, phantom pregnancies and some other health issues.
This is not the same as a procedure performed for cosmetic reasons only.
I would not feel guilty if my bitch died as the result of a spay op, as I'd know it was done with her best interests at heart.
I would feel awfully bad if a pup died during a cropping operation, which is for the human's benefit and not the dog's.
7. So are you against circumsicion of baby boys too?
People always make this remark.
Its not the same thing. One is a foreskin, the other is an ear.
A circumsicion doesn't require an anaesthetic, or months of taping and posting! A foreskin isn't a limb with a bone in it (like a tail is).
As it is, I don't really ever run into men who are cut, nor do I know anyone who has been, so its not something I encounter often or have cause to get involved in the rights and wrongs of.
But since the question is there......Im not 100% comfortable with it, no. Im not comfortable with anything that is done to the body of another, without their consent, particularly if that procedure is painful and the body part was fine the way it was.
I don't like seeing babies with pierced ears for the same reason :P
Look, I know this is controversial, and I do not hate people who have cropped or docked dogs. I have friends who do, and I don't constantly snarl at them over it, nor do I look down on them for their choices.
In fact, for most pet owners, it isn't a choice since dobe pups in the USA tend to be docked and cropped before they even go to their new home so the owner has no choice.
My issue isn't with the people who do it; its the excuses they make for it, and the way they attack owners of natural dogs.
If someone wants cropped ears and a docked tail on their dog, and is happy to admit that they know it is purely a cosmetic op but they just prefer that look, then fine. I am not going to rage at them; they're honest. And we can't help what we like the look of.
I don't agree with their choice at all, and believe we should put our shallow whims of appearance aside for the welfare of animals, but I wouldn't abuse them for it, or tell them they were evil.
But I am sick to death at looking at vids of natural dobes on youtube, or pics on forums, and seeing a comment like 'shame about the ears'. It sickens me.
Go look up a video of a natural dobe on youtube, any video, and I can almost guarantee you someone will make a comment about the natural ears and tail, and usually a nasty one.
The pro-dock and crop people ask that we allow them to have the choice and not try to restrict their 'freedoms' to crop and dock, but they do not extend that same respect to those people who want natural dogs.
I would never go to a video of a cropped and docked dog and say 'lovely dog, shame about the ears!' but I frequently see it done the other way around.
I even see comments accusing people of not being responsible owners if they have left their dog natural.
It is not cool, and I will not allow it to happen on pics of my pup.
I am sick of being called a 'tree hugger' or PETA supporter for my anti crop and dock stance. I am neither, but have been called both those things more than I can count because I advocate natural dobes.
I've even known people in the USA claim they would 'leave the breed' if they could no longer crop and dock.
This just.....it baffles me SO much. Its as if the ONLY thing they like dobes for is their looks, and if they have to change, they will drop them without a second thought. Im not sure whether Im just a weirdo, but I got a dobe for the temperament and personality, NOT the looks. And I would still want a dobe regardless of how the breed's looks evolved, because its the temperament and nature and personality that I love. I find it so hard to understand how someone can claim to love a breed, then want nothing to do with it any more if they're no longer allowed to cut bits off it.
Seems to me they never loved dobes to begin with, just what dobes represent, or how owning a dobe makes them look to others.
People tell me they like the cropped and docked look because it makes the dog look more aggressive. Why, in a breed that already has problems with its image, would you want to communicate to people in the street 'watch out, this dog will kill you!' Isn't that what spawns BSL? Isn't this kind of stereotyping what we're trying to disprove? Aren't we, as dog lovers, supposed to educate people about the true nature of these so called 'dangerous dogs' and help these breeds by showcasing how wonderful and loving they actually are?
And yet people still want a dog that will make people cross the road to avoid, they still want a dog that will send out the message 'this dog is aggressive'.
Personally, I see this as a huge disservice to the doberman breed. When so many are wrongly accused of being 'devil dogs', I can't understand why any pet owner would want to do something to their dog to make it fit that stereotype, and look more aggressive.
I don't want my dog to look aggressive. In fact, I'd be mortified if he showed aggressive tendencies to passer's by without just cause. Thats not how a dobe should be.
People have said to me 'well, my dog is partly for my personal protection when out walking, so yes, I do want him to look intimidating'.
Bullshit.
One of the reasons I got a dobe instead of a pom, shiba inu, or alaskan klee kai (yes, believe it or not, those are breeds I considered too) is because I spend a lot of time alone, in a not-so-nice area and I did want a dog to act as a deterrent if Im out walking alone.
So I get that idea of having a dog to feel safer when you're alone, especially as a woman. But a dog does NOT need to be cropped to be a deterrent.
Most people will not mess with someone walking with any large dog, regardless of breed. Even a black lab will be a deterrent. Even a greyhound will be a deterrent. Any dog over a certain size, regardless of breed, will be a deterrent.
The idea that a dog having pricked ears will make it a better protector than a natural one is, again, just another excuse to justify what is, at a basic level, a cosmetic preference and nothing more.
Please let us follow the old saying of 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all'. You put pics of your cropped and docked dog up, and I will not say a thing to you in opposition to your choice, as long as you don't shit on me for mine.
I ask that people do the same for me.
People are free to debate with me here if they don't agree. I know this is a controversial topic. But I mainly post it to TRY and avoid future drama on any pictures of my puppy that I will post, and explain why my dog is natural, and why I would have it no other way.
As a UK girl who never even knew about ear cropping until someone from the USA told me about it, Im still saddened that I have to defend my dog against people who cannot see that there are other countries and other ways of doing things, and not everywhere is the USA, nor is it wrong for a dobe to be left as it is and not sliced up for fashion.
I really don't want to have to constantly argue this issue, nor do I want regular comments left on pics of him which ask 'why isn't he cropped/docked' or even the one I see often on natural dobes 'shame about the ears/tail'.
So....these are the facts, and my whole view on this thing, so hopefully I won't have to deal with too much trouble relating to this issue.
It is important to realise the most important point here: cropping of ears and docking of tails is ILLEGAL in the UK. I couldn't do it to my pup even if I wanted to.
If you want a dobe with a docked tail here, you have to either import an already docked dog from a country where it is permitted, or find a breeder who whelps the litter outside of the UK.
Some breeders send the bitch to Northern Ireland to welp, as they can still legally dock the tail there.
Or, you could rescue an older dobe that was docked prior to the ban, which I believe came in in 2006.
There is an exemption in the UK for 'working dogs'. If you can prove that the pup is going to be used for working, they can make an exception and you may still be able to dock.
But this primarily goes along with gundog breeds, who are still used for their original purpose fairly often here. A dobe would be a much harder breed to prove 'working status' of.
It is rare to see any puppy with a docked tail in the UK now. I've not seen one for years now, so even the number of exempt 'working dogs' is low.
Thats it. There is no other legal way to get a docked dog.
If you have one, you'll also probably wish you didn't: you WILL get stopped in the street and quizzed on why your puppy is docked, as well as probably getting a lot of evil looks from those who don't stop to ask.
As for ear cropping, that is also illegal here, and has been for a loooooong time, at least since I've been alive.
Its not an issue here. Virtually no-one owns a cropped dog, of any breed (if they do, it will have been imported), and most people in the UK will never have seen one.
Most won't even know what ear cropping is or that such a thing is done. Most average UK folk would look at you with disgust if you told them there is a practise where a puppies ears are cut, then taped to make them stand upright. Its just not recognised here. A dobe with cropped ears here would have people constantly asking you what breed it was.
Despite me informing people of the laws here, people still see fit to argue the toss with me about how it 'should' be done, and the laws are stupid, usually for the following reasons.
1. But an undocked/uncropped dobe doesn't look like a dobe!
It does here. It might be an issue in the USA, but here, a natural dobe is the dobe we know.
Some people here still recognise the docked tail as a dobe thing, as the ban only came into effect here a few years back.
But a dobe with cropped ears in the UK would likely be thought of as a cross-breed by the average member of the public, as we do not associate the dobe with pointed ears: they're a dropped eared breed here.
I know that before I learned about ear cropping, I'd seen cropped dobes online and just assumed they were cross-breeds, as I didn't think there was any way to get a floppy eared dog's ears to stand.
In fact, my breeder owns a cropped dog, imported, and when he took it to the vet, they weren't even sure what breed he was, because its that alien to us.
2. The 'natural dobe' isn't what Mr. Dobermann intended when he created the breed!
He also created a dog that was black and tan, not red, blue, fawn, or white. And yet people who are pro-cropping still own red dobes, or any of the other colours. If one is so concerned with what Mr. Dobermann wanted for the breed, they would only own black and tan dogs.
The first original dobe pics show a dog with very short cropped ears, of the 'military' style of crop.
Yet most dobes that are cropped are done with the longer 'pet' or 'show' crop, again, not what Mr Dobermann probably intended either!
Added to which, look at the photos of the first original dobes compared to the dobes of today: they didn't look exactly like they look now. We have refined and altered this breed in several ways since it first appeared on the scene.
One either has to be a purist, and stick only to what mr Dobermann intended, which would be strictly only a black and tan dog with a military crop, or one has to just get over it and accept that the dog is a different dog now and stop using this excuse to justify cropping and docking.
It funny how people ignore other features that Herr Dobermann intended, but become purist when it comes to the ears and tail.
3. Cropping and docking are for health reasons!
Not so.
There was a time when people thought cropping the ears resulted in less ear infections, but this has been de-bunked, and fortunately, few people still use this argument, even the fiercest pro-cropper, because it holds so little water.
In fact, it has been suggested that cropping the ears of a naturally dropped-eared breed actually increases the chances of ear infections as it creates an open ear, but without any of the protective hair that usually accompanies naturally pricked-ear breeds.
As for the tail, it is claimed that dogs with tails left in tact will eventually break or damage the tail, and it is removed to prevent this damage.
But this is also not proven.
And in fact, some of the breeds that most commonly DO suffer from tail injuries are NOT breeds that are typically required to be docked anyway!
There is no docking requirement for any sight-hound, or dalmatians, or a number of other breeds with thin tails. If this were done purely for health reasons, wouldn't these breeds be docked too?
I saw a number of greyhounds with 'happy tail' when I worked at the vets, but no-one proposes docking this breed. Kinda puts the 'its purely to prevent injury' argument out of the picture.
If this were the case, and docking was purely for the welfare of the dog, we'd have other breeds being routinely docked, with greyhounds topping that list.
We don't.
These days, cropping and docking, particularly on dobes, are just for appearance, no other reason.
Dobes were originally cropped and docked, allegedly, to make it harder for an intruder to 'grab hold of a tail or ears' when fighting against the dog.
This may or may not have been true, though to be honest, if a fully grown dobe was racing for me, I wouldn't be trying to grab around its head or rear end, I'd be retreating, quickly.
Most dobes these days are pets or show dogs, and not called upon to do the job they were originally bred for, making these procedures even less relevent.
Some say it was done to make the dog look more alert, which I can buy, as it possibly does. But if one's dobe is a pet only, who cares how 'alert' it looks? And I know there is no mistake with how alert Dresden looks when I have treats to hand, even with his floppy ears!
4. Cropping and docking are not risky or painful for a dog, so what is the issue even if it is just for looks?
I do not agree.
Even if the pain and distress is minimal, why put a pup through this when it isn't necessary?
I actually have less of a concern about tail docking than I do about ear cropping. While I still don't agree with either of them, tail docking at least, if done via banding, is performed on a very young pup, does not require anaesthetic, and is completed relatively quickly.
Ear cropping, however, not only requires an anaesthetic, but weeks of posting and taping of the ears (the longer show crops can take months of this in order to stand properly).
Any anaesthetic on an animal carries a risk. On a young pup, this risk is even bigger.
I have read tragic stories on doberman forums where a couple of pups have actually died while under the anaesthetic for their ear crop.
I've read even more stories about pups who have had infection problems in the ears following the op, or problems where the ears never stood, leaving the dog with permanently mangled ears.
I do not know why anyone would take this risk with their pup, for nothing more than cosmetic reasons.
As responsible pet owners, it is our job to limit the risks to our pets as much as possible.
Ear cropping, to me, seems to be putting a pup at risk for no good reason. Cosmetic reasons are not good reasons, as far as Im concerned.
Others would disagree and consider that having their dog look a certain way is worth the risk to said dog.
I don't know that the dog would agree, and I certainly wouldn't want someone making a decision like that on my behalf, and putting me through an operation just because they didn't like the way I looked naturally.
How about if I wanted to have surgery on the ears of my dumbo rats to make them look top-eared, would that be acceptable? Likely not. I don't see why it is with dogs, other than for purposes of 'tradition' and human vanity. Neither seem important enough, to me, to risk the welfare of my dog.
Not to mention the taping and posting process, which seems pretty intrusive to a young pup, who should be focused on playing, learning and being socialised. I am concerned about the effect such an invasive procedure has on a pup at that impressionable age.
5. If a dobe is not cropped and docked, it has far less chance of ever being adopted if it ends up in rescue in the USA.
Sadly, Im not doubting that this is the case.
But to use this as justification for cropping and docking your own pup seems, to me, like admitting that you might end up giving your pup up to rescue later on!
Any pup bought from a GOOD breeder would be purchased under the condition that it is returned to the breeder if it can no longer be kept, hence obliterating the chance of it ending up in rescue.
Added to which, there are as many people in the USA who oppose these ops as there are people in the UK, and I have met many a USA resident who would like to own a natural dobe, but find it extremely hard to source one out. There is a market for natural dobes in the USA, and to claim there isn't is ignorant.
The pro docking and cropping lot like to claim that their 'choice' to crop/dock is under threat by people like me. They like to harp on about 'choice'.
But what of the choice of those who want a natural dog? Just try finding a good breeder in the USA who will leave you a pup natural. Pups are docked, and the cropping done before the owner even picks up their new pup. So much for 'choice' there.
If one is going to put so much importance on 'choice', they should be more supportive of people who choose not to dock and crop a whole litter, but try going on a USA dobe forum as a breeder and telling them you're leaving your entire litter natural.
You'd get ripped a new one.
Choice does not exist on this issue. If you are good pet owner in the USA who wants to do the right thing and buy a well bred pup from a reputable breeder, you are highly unlikely to get this 'choice' the pro-cropping/docking lot go on about being so important.
6. Why would someone oppose cropping and docking but be pro neutering? Isn't that a non-consentual op as well?
The two are not really comparable.
People don't neuter dogs for cosmetic reasons, or for their own vanity, there are a lot of reasons why people choose to neuter, and apperance is not one!
For me, personally, I do not advocate routine castration for male dogs. I see no reason to castrate a dog as a matter of course, if there is no medical or behavioural reason to do so.
Castration can carry its own set of health problems, so if someone is able to cope with an entire male, and keep him away from females, I see no need to castrate him any more than I would castrate a healthy, adult human male.
For bitches, it isn't that clear cut, and I do generally support spaying a bitch, as the health benefits of spaying are far more significant.
But regardless, people tend to neuter because they believe it is ultimately for the good of the dog species and prevents over-population, and for bitches, prevents pyometra, phantom pregnancies and some other health issues.
This is not the same as a procedure performed for cosmetic reasons only.
I would not feel guilty if my bitch died as the result of a spay op, as I'd know it was done with her best interests at heart.
I would feel awfully bad if a pup died during a cropping operation, which is for the human's benefit and not the dog's.
7. So are you against circumsicion of baby boys too?
People always make this remark.
Its not the same thing. One is a foreskin, the other is an ear.
A circumsicion doesn't require an anaesthetic, or months of taping and posting! A foreskin isn't a limb with a bone in it (like a tail is).
As it is, I don't really ever run into men who are cut, nor do I know anyone who has been, so its not something I encounter often or have cause to get involved in the rights and wrongs of.
But since the question is there......Im not 100% comfortable with it, no. Im not comfortable with anything that is done to the body of another, without their consent, particularly if that procedure is painful and the body part was fine the way it was.
I don't like seeing babies with pierced ears for the same reason :P
Look, I know this is controversial, and I do not hate people who have cropped or docked dogs. I have friends who do, and I don't constantly snarl at them over it, nor do I look down on them for their choices.
In fact, for most pet owners, it isn't a choice since dobe pups in the USA tend to be docked and cropped before they even go to their new home so the owner has no choice.
My issue isn't with the people who do it; its the excuses they make for it, and the way they attack owners of natural dogs.
If someone wants cropped ears and a docked tail on their dog, and is happy to admit that they know it is purely a cosmetic op but they just prefer that look, then fine. I am not going to rage at them; they're honest. And we can't help what we like the look of.
I don't agree with their choice at all, and believe we should put our shallow whims of appearance aside for the welfare of animals, but I wouldn't abuse them for it, or tell them they were evil.
But I am sick to death at looking at vids of natural dobes on youtube, or pics on forums, and seeing a comment like 'shame about the ears'. It sickens me.
Go look up a video of a natural dobe on youtube, any video, and I can almost guarantee you someone will make a comment about the natural ears and tail, and usually a nasty one.
The pro-dock and crop people ask that we allow them to have the choice and not try to restrict their 'freedoms' to crop and dock, but they do not extend that same respect to those people who want natural dogs.
I would never go to a video of a cropped and docked dog and say 'lovely dog, shame about the ears!' but I frequently see it done the other way around.
I even see comments accusing people of not being responsible owners if they have left their dog natural.
It is not cool, and I will not allow it to happen on pics of my pup.
I am sick of being called a 'tree hugger' or PETA supporter for my anti crop and dock stance. I am neither, but have been called both those things more than I can count because I advocate natural dobes.
I've even known people in the USA claim they would 'leave the breed' if they could no longer crop and dock.
This just.....it baffles me SO much. Its as if the ONLY thing they like dobes for is their looks, and if they have to change, they will drop them without a second thought. Im not sure whether Im just a weirdo, but I got a dobe for the temperament and personality, NOT the looks. And I would still want a dobe regardless of how the breed's looks evolved, because its the temperament and nature and personality that I love. I find it so hard to understand how someone can claim to love a breed, then want nothing to do with it any more if they're no longer allowed to cut bits off it.
Seems to me they never loved dobes to begin with, just what dobes represent, or how owning a dobe makes them look to others.
People tell me they like the cropped and docked look because it makes the dog look more aggressive. Why, in a breed that already has problems with its image, would you want to communicate to people in the street 'watch out, this dog will kill you!' Isn't that what spawns BSL? Isn't this kind of stereotyping what we're trying to disprove? Aren't we, as dog lovers, supposed to educate people about the true nature of these so called 'dangerous dogs' and help these breeds by showcasing how wonderful and loving they actually are?
And yet people still want a dog that will make people cross the road to avoid, they still want a dog that will send out the message 'this dog is aggressive'.
Personally, I see this as a huge disservice to the doberman breed. When so many are wrongly accused of being 'devil dogs', I can't understand why any pet owner would want to do something to their dog to make it fit that stereotype, and look more aggressive.
I don't want my dog to look aggressive. In fact, I'd be mortified if he showed aggressive tendencies to passer's by without just cause. Thats not how a dobe should be.
People have said to me 'well, my dog is partly for my personal protection when out walking, so yes, I do want him to look intimidating'.
Bullshit.
One of the reasons I got a dobe instead of a pom, shiba inu, or alaskan klee kai (yes, believe it or not, those are breeds I considered too) is because I spend a lot of time alone, in a not-so-nice area and I did want a dog to act as a deterrent if Im out walking alone.
So I get that idea of having a dog to feel safer when you're alone, especially as a woman. But a dog does NOT need to be cropped to be a deterrent.
Most people will not mess with someone walking with any large dog, regardless of breed. Even a black lab will be a deterrent. Even a greyhound will be a deterrent. Any dog over a certain size, regardless of breed, will be a deterrent.
The idea that a dog having pricked ears will make it a better protector than a natural one is, again, just another excuse to justify what is, at a basic level, a cosmetic preference and nothing more.
Please let us follow the old saying of 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all'. You put pics of your cropped and docked dog up, and I will not say a thing to you in opposition to your choice, as long as you don't shit on me for mine.
I ask that people do the same for me.
People are free to debate with me here if they don't agree. I know this is a controversial topic. But I mainly post it to TRY and avoid future drama on any pictures of my puppy that I will post, and explain why my dog is natural, and why I would have it no other way.
As a UK girl who never even knew about ear cropping until someone from the USA told me about it, Im still saddened that I have to defend my dog against people who cannot see that there are other countries and other ways of doing things, and not everywhere is the USA, nor is it wrong for a dobe to be left as it is and not sliced up for fashion.
rattified update
Posted 13 years agoAm hoping to have all rattified commissions done and dusted and sent out within 7 days. Anyone who has bought one from me, they will hopefully be completed within that time.
Also, the special offer on these of being £10 is now finished, they are back up to the original price of £15 each.
Anyone who has already contacted me about one before now will still get them at the £10 price, but new enquiries will be £15 from now on.
Thanks.
Also, the special offer on these of being £10 is now finished, they are back up to the original price of £15 each.
Anyone who has already contacted me about one before now will still get them at the £10 price, but new enquiries will be £15 from now on.
Thanks.
Rattified sale.
Posted 13 years agoNow £10 only, UK pounds, paypal only.
Temporary offer, for one week only to get quick funds, then they return to the usual price of £15.
Your character as a rat, fully shaded, with one item/adornment of your choice, plain background.
See my gallery for examples of previous 'rattified' commissions.
If interested, note me with:
1. A ref for your character and description of their personality.
2. What item/adornment you'd like in the pic/with your character.
3. What colour background you'd like.
Thanks.
Temporary offer, for one week only to get quick funds, then they return to the usual price of £15.
Your character as a rat, fully shaded, with one item/adornment of your choice, plain background.
See my gallery for examples of previous 'rattified' commissions.
If interested, note me with:
1. A ref for your character and description of their personality.
2. What item/adornment you'd like in the pic/with your character.
3. What colour background you'd like.
Thanks.
Rattified update and open for more
Posted 13 years agoThe last 2 rattified commissions will be sent out to their owners on friday this week, meaning I will once again be open for anything people wish to commission me for.
We're trying to raise money to replace more of our rat cages here at the rescue, as they're all hand-me-downs and in bad condition. We had a lovely donation of a cage recently, and were so impressed with said cage that we want to replace all our old ones with this style of cage.
But they're £190 each :P
So!
Come friday, when the last two rattifieds are done, I will be taking on more commissions.
I can do:
More rattified commissions, ie, your character in rat form with any one item/adornment of your choosing, fully shaded, plain or single colour background, for £15
Single character commissions, quad or anthro, fully shaded, simple or plain background for £20 (+ £10 for complex/very detailed background, + £10 for each additional character within the same pic)
Character design commissions, ie, I will design you a character/fursona to your specifications for you to have and own as your own character. Your input into this can be as little or as much as you like.
You can dictate every little detail, or you can leave most of it up to me, its your choice.
You can be as basic as 'I want a brown fox fursona' to 'I want a brown fox with blue short hair, green eyes, cream markings in these specific places, two tails, etc'
Great for those with a lot of ideas but who feel they cannot draw, or are still developing in their art skills. Or just people who have all the ideas but feel they're not good at putting them all together!
These would be single character with up to three different perspectives (ie, one front view, one rear view, one side view, or two side views and a head shot etc), plain or simple background, colour swatches, and brief description of the character.
Anthro or quad, though if anthro, the character will be depicted sans clothing, to allow markings to be shown (no naughty bits, please)
These would be £40 - 45 depending on character complexity (ie, loads of very specifically placed spots or scales or markings would be more)
General character ref sheets of your already existing character, with two views and one head shot, colour swatches, and bio box - £35
Just inks - single character pic in just inks with no colour - £10
Head shots - Just a head shot, fully coloured and shaded, plain or no background £12
Anything else you might want, just ask and I will get you a quote. I will be able to pretty much anything you like with a good enough description.
The only things I will probably not do are porn (nothing against it, Im just not very practised at it!) complex machinery (ditto) and humans.
But if you're dead set on one of these things, note me and we can discuss.
I will do tasteful nude.
Payment in UK pounds only, and paypal only.
Paypal addy is ratgirl666[at]hotmail.com
All money raised goes toward the rat rescue.
Im also considering a character auction in the future, and wondered if anyone would have interest in something like this? And if so, what kind of character they'd rather see (ie, anthro/quad)
We're trying to raise money to replace more of our rat cages here at the rescue, as they're all hand-me-downs and in bad condition. We had a lovely donation of a cage recently, and were so impressed with said cage that we want to replace all our old ones with this style of cage.
But they're £190 each :P
So!
Come friday, when the last two rattifieds are done, I will be taking on more commissions.
I can do:
More rattified commissions, ie, your character in rat form with any one item/adornment of your choosing, fully shaded, plain or single colour background, for £15
Single character commissions, quad or anthro, fully shaded, simple or plain background for £20 (+ £10 for complex/very detailed background, + £10 for each additional character within the same pic)
Character design commissions, ie, I will design you a character/fursona to your specifications for you to have and own as your own character. Your input into this can be as little or as much as you like.
You can dictate every little detail, or you can leave most of it up to me, its your choice.
You can be as basic as 'I want a brown fox fursona' to 'I want a brown fox with blue short hair, green eyes, cream markings in these specific places, two tails, etc'
Great for those with a lot of ideas but who feel they cannot draw, or are still developing in their art skills. Or just people who have all the ideas but feel they're not good at putting them all together!
These would be single character with up to three different perspectives (ie, one front view, one rear view, one side view, or two side views and a head shot etc), plain or simple background, colour swatches, and brief description of the character.
Anthro or quad, though if anthro, the character will be depicted sans clothing, to allow markings to be shown (no naughty bits, please)
These would be £40 - 45 depending on character complexity (ie, loads of very specifically placed spots or scales or markings would be more)
General character ref sheets of your already existing character, with two views and one head shot, colour swatches, and bio box - £35
Just inks - single character pic in just inks with no colour - £10
Head shots - Just a head shot, fully coloured and shaded, plain or no background £12
Anything else you might want, just ask and I will get you a quote. I will be able to pretty much anything you like with a good enough description.
The only things I will probably not do are porn (nothing against it, Im just not very practised at it!) complex machinery (ditto) and humans.
But if you're dead set on one of these things, note me and we can discuss.
I will do tasteful nude.
Payment in UK pounds only, and paypal only.
Paypal addy is ratgirl666[at]hotmail.com
All money raised goes toward the rat rescue.
Im also considering a character auction in the future, and wondered if anyone would have interest in something like this? And if so, what kind of character they'd rather see (ie, anthro/quad)
Meet Spirit
Posted 13 years agoSpirit is a wild rat who lives in my shed:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=7cad51b31d
She has a fur lined box which she sleeps in, I feed her and leave her water, so she doesn't have to go outside and risk being harmed by humans.
She is a rarity in that she is a lone rat and has no group. She has lived with me for about 8 months now. She is free to come and go as she pleases, and she is a wild animal, not a pet.
But she is accustomed to me and I do what I can to make her life easy.
She has done well, since the average life expectancy for a wild rat is 12 months. She was fully grown when she first moved in, and that was 8 months ago, and she is looking well.
The blood in the wood is from an injured foot she had many months ago, which has since healed, but it looks a little gross, I know.
Tonight, she had baked potato, spring greens, pasta and wholemeal bread :)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=7cad51b31d
She has a fur lined box which she sleeps in, I feed her and leave her water, so she doesn't have to go outside and risk being harmed by humans.
She is a rarity in that she is a lone rat and has no group. She has lived with me for about 8 months now. She is free to come and go as she pleases, and she is a wild animal, not a pet.
But she is accustomed to me and I do what I can to make her life easy.
She has done well, since the average life expectancy for a wild rat is 12 months. She was fully grown when she first moved in, and that was 8 months ago, and she is looking well.
The blood in the wood is from an injured foot she had many months ago, which has since healed, but it looks a little gross, I know.
Tonight, she had baked potato, spring greens, pasta and wholemeal bread :)
New account for photos
Posted 13 years agoGonna move most of my photos across to this account:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ziggysphotos/
As I'd rather keep this one for art.
So all future rat pics will be uploaded there from now on, as well as any other photos.
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ziggysphotos/
As I'd rather keep this one for art.
So all future rat pics will be uploaded there from now on, as well as any other photos.
What constitutes a good rat breeder?
Posted 14 years agoI rescue. And I support breeders.
I've been rescuing animals for 8 years.
I run a rat rescue centre/sanctuary, where all but 5 rats out of the 51 residents are rescued.
Im one of only a couple of people who do rat rescue in this area.
Both my ferrets are rescued.
Both my cats are rescued.
I worked at both the RSPCA, and the Norfolk and Suffolk animal trust on a voluntary basis for several years.
Im spend the majority of my own money on rescuing animals. No-one can say I am not involved, or even heavily involved, in animal rescue.
I promote rescue animals over pet shops and BYBs constantly, and have donated money to shelters and individual rescuers many times over the years.
Im about as pro-rescue as you can get.
But I also support good, ethical, responsible breeding.
And personally, Im sick of the attitude a lot of rescuers have toward responsible breeding, which is that there is no such thing as a responsible breeder.
This is deeply offensive to the many people who work their arses off to breed out health problems and improve the welfare of their breed/species.
My past discussions with people who are anti-breeder have revealed that these opinions are based on stereotype, hearsay and ignorance, and never on actual facts.
Most of these people have, sadly, never actually met a proper, ethical breeder. The only breeders they've ever met are the kind that throw male and female together and sit back to watch the babies, and consequently money, roll in without thought to their actions or care for the animals they produce.
And if these are the only breeders you've ever met, perhaps you can't be blamed for being negative toward the idea. But so many of these people refuse to even acknowledge how vital good breeders are, or that they exist at all.
Because if someone were truely clued up on what a good breeder actually is, and does, they could not be so dismissive of them.
Below is a simple run-down of the difference between good breeders and bad breeders, and why we need to support the good ones. I run into people constantly who are not sure what being a good breeder is, or even start breeding themselves without really knowing the right way to do it.
1. Good breeders breed primarily for a love of the animal. Their aim is to improve the health, temperament and welfare of their chosen breed/species, as priority.
Some species, and some breeds, have health issues specific to them. With rats, its mammary tumours, respiratory conditions and pituitary tumours, to name just 3 from a long list.
With dogs, depending on breed, it can be anything from hip dysplasia, heart failure, skin problems, eye problems, deafness, back problems, the list goes on.
The aim of a good breeder is to work to eliminate, or lessen, these conditions. A good breeder wants to produce animals that will not suffer from these conditions, and die young as a result of them, or suffer pain and discomfort throughout their lives.
This is the first thing the 'anti-breeder' brigade don't seem to understand about ethical animal breeding.
Its is not about money; it is about the welfare of the animal. In fact, I know a few breeders, both of rats and dogs, who will even give the offspring away for free to trusted homes and friends, as their priority is not money, but good homes.
If one wants to make money, there are far easier ways of doing it than breeding animals! Anyone who has had a litter of 8 puppies running about their house, crapping every 10 minutes and chewing up your furniture will tell you it isn't a walk in the park.
Someone does not devote their time, money and life to a species or breed if they do not like, or even love, that animal.
Why would they wish to do anything that would harm that animal's welfare?
As such, good breeders will only breed from animals who are proven or shown not to carry the health issues they wish to breed out.
Breeding from a rat who got a tumour at 6 months is a fairly safe way to ensure some of the offspring will suffer similarly.
It does not take a genius to realise that breeding from healthy animals makes healthy babies, and breeding from sickly animals makes sickly babies.
The ONLY way to obliterate these conditions we see in our pet animals is by careful breeding and knowing exactly what you're breeding.
The difference between a good breeder and a bad one is that a good breeder chooses the breeding pair extremely carefully, based on that individual's health, the health of their grandparents, the health of their great grandparents and so on.
With dogs and cats, this includes health testing for some breeds, to ensure they are not carrying the things we don't want to see.
As well as health, a good breeder is concerned with temperament, as this too can be inherited.
No-one wants a dog or cat or rat that will attempt to bite your finger off.
Not only is this horrible for an owner to deal with, it is terrible for the animal as aggressive animals often end up being abandoned or sent to rescue.
Temperament is as much a concern as health to a good breeder.
A bad breeder puts male and female together, without any regard to what either might be carrying, and without even knowing the background of the breeding pair. Its not uncommon for these people to just pick a male and female animal from a pet shop, throw them together, and wait for babies. They don't health test, they don't know anything about the health of the parents, they don't even know who the grandparents or great grandparents are, let alone what they're carrying!
Some even know full well that their animal suffers a health condition, but breed from it anyway.
This results in a litter of babies brought into the world who could be ticking time bombs, and simply add to the population of sickly, short-lived animals. This is not fair to the owner, who has to watch the animal they love die young or suffer throughout its life, nor to the animal itself.
Good breeders only breed a few litters a year, they do not churn out animals like a production line, and most good breeders will have a waiting list months and often years long. I've waited 18 months for kittens from a top UK rat breeder before, and was happy to do so. Quality animals are worth waiting for.
If a rat breeder cannot show you a pedigree with your rats, showing at the very LEAST the parents, grandparents and great grandparents, be concerned. Just as you would not buy a puppy from a breeder without papers to show you what went into that puppy, do not do so with a rat.
If a rat has a pedigree, you know that breeder has been keeping records on their breeding stock, and know exactly what went in to their babies.
If there is no pedigree, or it only goes as far as the parents, be wary. A generation, in rat terms, is pretty short, so if no grandparents or great grandparents are listed, you can assume the breeder has no idea who they were.
And thats not good.
2. Good breeders have only a few litters a year, and only 3 maximum from one mum.
Be wary of any breeder that is producing 5 or 6 or 7 litters a year, this points more to someone breeding for quantity over quality.
Also avoid any breeder who has used the same mother more than two or three times, and even then, two is more ideal. A rat should only ever be used three times if she is absolutely exceptional and brings something amazing to the rat species. Think of it this way: a rat's average life span is 30 months, and they should be 5-6 months at least before having a litter, and should not be bred past the age of . They carry their babies for 22 days, then suckle and raise these babies for about 5 weeks after this. Thats about 2 months where the doe is involved in having their litter.
Most does stop being able to produce babies reliably anywhere from 10 months to a year and a half. So, you don't have that long a window in which to produce babies from a single girl.
And if you were to use that girl to make, say, 6 litters in her life, then the majority of her life is going to be spent either pregnant, or raising babies.
This is not a good life for a rat.
When raising a litter, she usually has to be seperated from her cage mates, meaning a solitary life, and raising a litter is hard on a mum's body. For a girl to spend the majority of her life either pregnant or nursing is not fair, and is akin to making a woman be continually pregnant or raising babies from the age of 15 to the age of 45.
So a doe should not be bred from too often. I'd say twice is usually enough.
Males, on the other hand, can be used more often as they obviously don't have the hassle of raising or carrying the babies! A stud male can be used up until the day he can no longer perform.
In fact, it is advised to wait til the male is at least a year of age before using him to breed.
This is because if any temperament issues are going to appear in a male rat, they tend to appear at the age of 8 months - 1 year, when the hormone surge happens.
If you breed before this time, you don't really have a true idea of your boy's temperament.
He may be lovely until those hormones hit, then turn into a bitey, cage territorial rat who hates other rats.....and you don't want to breed from a boy like this.
So it is important to wait until the boy has passed through this phase, and done so comfortably without aggression issues, before you think of using him to breed.
But be wary of someone who has used the exact same male for every single litter.
While its not unusual for good males to pop up in pedigrees regularly, or be used a lot, if a breeder only seems to own ONE stud male and use him for everything, this isn't ideal.
One male is very restricting. A male should be chosen to compliment the female, so if the female has failings in one area, you choose a male who is strong in that area to balance it. If you're using the same male, repeatedly, on different females, then it suggests the breeder is not picking rats the compliment one another, but merely whatever is easiest or most available.
3. Avoid a breeder who breeds loads of different varieties, or who doesn't know what varieties they're producing.
Good rat breeders specialise in a few specific varieties, they do not just churn out rats of any and all varieties.
In the same way you would be cautious of a dog breeder who bred german shepherds, dobermans, labradors, yorkies, poodles and chihuahuas all at once, so should you be cautious of a breeder who breeds loads of different rat types: this creates a jack of all trades, master of none situation, and is almost certainly someone breeding for money rather than to improve rats.
The good breeders I know work with 2 or 3 varieties, and thats it. The more genes you bring into your breeding, the harder it becomes to get everything right.
Its like being an artist and trying to be perfect at 10 different types of media. You don't do this; you focus on getting good at one or two, then you might introduce another new one once you've perfected the first.
Some varieties go hand in hand. You'll sometimes find breeders specialising in one variety might have the occasional rat of a different variety available as it
Anyone who tells you they breed 'blues, hairless, mink, agouti, topaz, rex, siamese, and Chocolate is almost certainly breeding for the wrong reasons.
The main aim should be breeding to improve health, temperament and longevity, not to pump out a range of pretty colours.
A breeder should know, within reason, what to expect in their litter.
By knowing the grand parents, great grandparents and so on, you know the genes that are present in the line, and know what will crop up.
A good breeder can predict what varieties there will be in their litter pretty accurately.
Sometimes you get a throw back that has popped up, but generally, any breeder who says they have no idea what varieties the litter will contain probably has no idea what genes they're working with, meaning they can't be said to be breeding for health or temperament: you can only do that if you know WHAT you're breeding into your rats. If you don't know the great grandparent's varieties were, or what they carried, then you probably don't know their health or temperament either.
4. Avoid any breeder who tries to charge more money for 'rare' varieties.
Some crappy breeders try to sucker people into paying up to twice as much for a 'rare' variety.
Don't go for this.
You frequently see hairless sold for much more than a furred rat, or dumbos sold for more than a top-ear. Anyone doing this is just trying to cater to 'fads' and isn't concerned for much else but money.
There is absolutely NO reason to charge more for one variety over another, other than the fact that gullable people will pay more, thinking they're getting something unique.
All varieties are equally easy to produce, if you know what you're breeding to what. There is no such thing as a 'rare' variety. Dumbos pop out just as much as top ears, and having a whole litter of hairless is easy as pie!
The only time a variety is actually 'rare' is when it is not a recognised variety, and doesn't fit the standard of any recognised rat colouration. In this situation, it usually IS a real variety, but just a very poor example of it, not rare or new at all.
And good breeders don't generally produce 'poor' examples of a variety, at least not reguarly.
They may produce babies that aren't 'show quality' but they're still recognisable as the variety they are. It just like how a pedigree dog breeder will have pups in the litter that aren't show quality, but still clearly the breed that they're meant to be. This is how it is with rats. If you look at a rat and have absolutely no idea what it is, and it doesn't remotely match and written standard, chances are it came from a crappy breeder.
If a breeder is breeding rats that don't match any variety, and doing so deliberately and selling them as 'rare' types, run a mile. They're not breeding rarities, they're just breeding bad examples of the variety.
I have a whole rescue full of rats that aren't good examples of their variety, and a few that I have no idea what they're meant to even be.
If you're gonna buy from a good breeder, learn about your varieties, so you're not suckered in by some made-up variety of rat which is really just a bad example of a common colour.
It happens with blues fairly often. You see people selling 'sapphire blue' rats or 'rare japanese blues'. No such thing. They're either just regular blues, or they're crappy examples of the colour.
5. Avoid certain varieties.
There are some rat varieties that are considered unethical to breed. And you should be very cautious if a breeder is deliberately breeding for these varieties, particularly in the UK.
Tailless is the main one. It is considered unethical to breed these rats here in the UK, USA opinions may differ, and they are more accepted here, but still controversial.
Tailless can suffer from heat exhaustion, as a rat's main way of losing heat is through its tail. They can also suffer spinal and hip deformities.
These problems cannot be 'bred out' as they are directly related to the lack of a tail.
I would be dubious of the ethics of anyone breeding this variety.
Also, it is not at all uncommon to see people 'docking' the tails of baby rats so they can sell them as 'rare tailless' later on.
Avoid tailless, and avoid anyone who deliberately breeds them. No ethical breeder dabbles with this variety.
Hairless are less clear cut, but still, I am wary of breeders that focus on this variety.
Hairless have a number of health problems, from skin infections to eye infections to immune system deficiencies to lacation issues.
As there is more than one gene that causes hairlessness, not all lines will have all these issues. And it becomes more complex when you realise that a double rex rat (a baby bred from a rex to rex mating) can look exactly like a hairless, and you'd only know if it was a true hairless or not by knowing its family tree.
I've owned a number of hairless rats in my life, and some lived very healthy lives and died at good ages, no different to a furred rat.
Others have clearly suffered immensely, in all the ways listed above. I've had hairless have to have eyes removed from chronic infections (and one died from the op), I've had several hairless who have had clear immune system weaknesseses. One had a regular, small, isolated abscess on his belly, the kind rats get often which heal up on their own, quickly and without issue. He died the next day, from this simple abscess. Another took weeks to heal from a simple scratch that a normal rat would be over in days.
One had heart problems from the age of 5 months, and died before his first birthday, despite a lot of treatment. One had cushings disease and awful skin problems his entire adult life.
One, however, lived to be 3 years old and died in his sleep, surviving both a tumour removal op and TWO tail amputations. He clearly had no problems healing, or any problems with lifespan! He was the oldest rat I've ever had.
The inability to lactate seems to be common in hairless females.
In the UK, the general idea was to try and breed OUT the health issues that hairless rats have, with an aim to make them as healthy as any other variety.
But recent research has suggested that the health issues some hairless can get are directly linked to the gene that causes hairlessness, so is impossible to breed out without losing the hairless look.
This is a dodgy and controversial variety for anyone to be dealing with, and few to no reputable breeders in the UK breed it, or support breeding it.
Those that do isolate themselves and do the breeding on the sly, because they don't want the abuse it will bring from the rat community as a whole, and some people are still trying to breed this variety ethically, for the right reasons (to breed out the issues, if possible) but again, attitudes toward this variety in the UK are generally negative and pessimistic regarding their ability to be healthy.
At LEAST here in the UK, please be careful of a breeder who breeds hairless. They are currently the 'fad' rat of choice, and also churned out in huge numbers for snake food.
You would have a VERY hard time finding a breeder who is ethical, as in, matches all the above points so far, and focuses on hairless.
Double rex, however, is fine. Ethical breeders do breed this variety, and double rex breeding should not be a concern.
6. Paper-work/contracts/breeder's demands
A lot of breeders sell babies with a contract.
This states several basic requirements that need to be adhered to (usually common sense things like 'the rat must see a vet if it is ill' etc) and these usually state the rat is NOT to be bred from.
Good breeders do not allow random people to buy their rats and breed them.
Good breeders are protective over their genetic lines; they've put blood, sweat and tears into them, and do not want them ruined or 'polluted' by getting mixed with any random rat the owner decides to use.
If someone has spent 10 years trying to breed out respiratory problems from their lines, they are obviously concerned that someone doesn't use these rats to breed to an inferior rat, and just un-do all those years of work.
Not all breeders actually use contracts: some don't believe they are worth the paper they're written on, and don't hold up in court. It doesn't mean someone is a bad breeder for not printing out a physical contract.
But they WILL make the same demands of you (ie, no breeding from the rat, must get vet care, etc) just in person.
A good breeder will also take back ANY rat they've bred if the rat can no longer be kept. It doesn't matter if this is a month after the rat is sold, or 2 years after: a good breeder will always take their rats back, no matter what condition they're in or what age they are.
Be wary of any breeder who doesn't state this.
This is why good breeders are not the ones contributing to rat over-population; they will not allow their rats to end up in rescues or dumped, as they give the owner an option to return it.
Again, this comes down to being protective of their lines. It would tear the heart out of a good breeder to think a rat they'd bred had ended up in rescue, the lines they'd worked so hard on.
To sum up?
Research your breeder, grill them, ask them 100 questions.
What is their motive for breeding? If the answer is anything BUT 'to improve the health, temperament and longevity of the rat species', then run away.
How many are they breeding each year, do they have pedigrees on their rats which tell you their parents, grandparents, great grandparents and so on? How many times do they breed from a single girl? What varieties are they focusing on? Will they always take the rat back if it can no longer be kept? Do they demand the rat is not bred from? Do they know what varieties they're expecting from the litter?
This is a complex issue and I've only covered some of the important things here. And while people tend to put thought into choosing a dog breeder, they don't seem to apply the same thinking to buying a rat.
But its the same thing.
If you want a breeder rat, get a good one. If anyone needs help, I can answer questions anyone might have.
I've been rescuing animals for 8 years.
I run a rat rescue centre/sanctuary, where all but 5 rats out of the 51 residents are rescued.
Im one of only a couple of people who do rat rescue in this area.
Both my ferrets are rescued.
Both my cats are rescued.
I worked at both the RSPCA, and the Norfolk and Suffolk animal trust on a voluntary basis for several years.
Im spend the majority of my own money on rescuing animals. No-one can say I am not involved, or even heavily involved, in animal rescue.
I promote rescue animals over pet shops and BYBs constantly, and have donated money to shelters and individual rescuers many times over the years.
Im about as pro-rescue as you can get.
But I also support good, ethical, responsible breeding.
And personally, Im sick of the attitude a lot of rescuers have toward responsible breeding, which is that there is no such thing as a responsible breeder.
This is deeply offensive to the many people who work their arses off to breed out health problems and improve the welfare of their breed/species.
My past discussions with people who are anti-breeder have revealed that these opinions are based on stereotype, hearsay and ignorance, and never on actual facts.
Most of these people have, sadly, never actually met a proper, ethical breeder. The only breeders they've ever met are the kind that throw male and female together and sit back to watch the babies, and consequently money, roll in without thought to their actions or care for the animals they produce.
And if these are the only breeders you've ever met, perhaps you can't be blamed for being negative toward the idea. But so many of these people refuse to even acknowledge how vital good breeders are, or that they exist at all.
Because if someone were truely clued up on what a good breeder actually is, and does, they could not be so dismissive of them.
Below is a simple run-down of the difference between good breeders and bad breeders, and why we need to support the good ones. I run into people constantly who are not sure what being a good breeder is, or even start breeding themselves without really knowing the right way to do it.
1. Good breeders breed primarily for a love of the animal. Their aim is to improve the health, temperament and welfare of their chosen breed/species, as priority.
Some species, and some breeds, have health issues specific to them. With rats, its mammary tumours, respiratory conditions and pituitary tumours, to name just 3 from a long list.
With dogs, depending on breed, it can be anything from hip dysplasia, heart failure, skin problems, eye problems, deafness, back problems, the list goes on.
The aim of a good breeder is to work to eliminate, or lessen, these conditions. A good breeder wants to produce animals that will not suffer from these conditions, and die young as a result of them, or suffer pain and discomfort throughout their lives.
This is the first thing the 'anti-breeder' brigade don't seem to understand about ethical animal breeding.
Its is not about money; it is about the welfare of the animal. In fact, I know a few breeders, both of rats and dogs, who will even give the offspring away for free to trusted homes and friends, as their priority is not money, but good homes.
If one wants to make money, there are far easier ways of doing it than breeding animals! Anyone who has had a litter of 8 puppies running about their house, crapping every 10 minutes and chewing up your furniture will tell you it isn't a walk in the park.
Someone does not devote their time, money and life to a species or breed if they do not like, or even love, that animal.
Why would they wish to do anything that would harm that animal's welfare?
As such, good breeders will only breed from animals who are proven or shown not to carry the health issues they wish to breed out.
Breeding from a rat who got a tumour at 6 months is a fairly safe way to ensure some of the offspring will suffer similarly.
It does not take a genius to realise that breeding from healthy animals makes healthy babies, and breeding from sickly animals makes sickly babies.
The ONLY way to obliterate these conditions we see in our pet animals is by careful breeding and knowing exactly what you're breeding.
The difference between a good breeder and a bad one is that a good breeder chooses the breeding pair extremely carefully, based on that individual's health, the health of their grandparents, the health of their great grandparents and so on.
With dogs and cats, this includes health testing for some breeds, to ensure they are not carrying the things we don't want to see.
As well as health, a good breeder is concerned with temperament, as this too can be inherited.
No-one wants a dog or cat or rat that will attempt to bite your finger off.
Not only is this horrible for an owner to deal with, it is terrible for the animal as aggressive animals often end up being abandoned or sent to rescue.
Temperament is as much a concern as health to a good breeder.
A bad breeder puts male and female together, without any regard to what either might be carrying, and without even knowing the background of the breeding pair. Its not uncommon for these people to just pick a male and female animal from a pet shop, throw them together, and wait for babies. They don't health test, they don't know anything about the health of the parents, they don't even know who the grandparents or great grandparents are, let alone what they're carrying!
Some even know full well that their animal suffers a health condition, but breed from it anyway.
This results in a litter of babies brought into the world who could be ticking time bombs, and simply add to the population of sickly, short-lived animals. This is not fair to the owner, who has to watch the animal they love die young or suffer throughout its life, nor to the animal itself.
Good breeders only breed a few litters a year, they do not churn out animals like a production line, and most good breeders will have a waiting list months and often years long. I've waited 18 months for kittens from a top UK rat breeder before, and was happy to do so. Quality animals are worth waiting for.
If a rat breeder cannot show you a pedigree with your rats, showing at the very LEAST the parents, grandparents and great grandparents, be concerned. Just as you would not buy a puppy from a breeder without papers to show you what went into that puppy, do not do so with a rat.
If a rat has a pedigree, you know that breeder has been keeping records on their breeding stock, and know exactly what went in to their babies.
If there is no pedigree, or it only goes as far as the parents, be wary. A generation, in rat terms, is pretty short, so if no grandparents or great grandparents are listed, you can assume the breeder has no idea who they were.
And thats not good.
2. Good breeders have only a few litters a year, and only 3 maximum from one mum.
Be wary of any breeder that is producing 5 or 6 or 7 litters a year, this points more to someone breeding for quantity over quality.
Also avoid any breeder who has used the same mother more than two or three times, and even then, two is more ideal. A rat should only ever be used three times if she is absolutely exceptional and brings something amazing to the rat species. Think of it this way: a rat's average life span is 30 months, and they should be 5-6 months at least before having a litter, and should not be bred past the age of . They carry their babies for 22 days, then suckle and raise these babies for about 5 weeks after this. Thats about 2 months where the doe is involved in having their litter.
Most does stop being able to produce babies reliably anywhere from 10 months to a year and a half. So, you don't have that long a window in which to produce babies from a single girl.
And if you were to use that girl to make, say, 6 litters in her life, then the majority of her life is going to be spent either pregnant, or raising babies.
This is not a good life for a rat.
When raising a litter, she usually has to be seperated from her cage mates, meaning a solitary life, and raising a litter is hard on a mum's body. For a girl to spend the majority of her life either pregnant or nursing is not fair, and is akin to making a woman be continually pregnant or raising babies from the age of 15 to the age of 45.
So a doe should not be bred from too often. I'd say twice is usually enough.
Males, on the other hand, can be used more often as they obviously don't have the hassle of raising or carrying the babies! A stud male can be used up until the day he can no longer perform.
In fact, it is advised to wait til the male is at least a year of age before using him to breed.
This is because if any temperament issues are going to appear in a male rat, they tend to appear at the age of 8 months - 1 year, when the hormone surge happens.
If you breed before this time, you don't really have a true idea of your boy's temperament.
He may be lovely until those hormones hit, then turn into a bitey, cage territorial rat who hates other rats.....and you don't want to breed from a boy like this.
So it is important to wait until the boy has passed through this phase, and done so comfortably without aggression issues, before you think of using him to breed.
But be wary of someone who has used the exact same male for every single litter.
While its not unusual for good males to pop up in pedigrees regularly, or be used a lot, if a breeder only seems to own ONE stud male and use him for everything, this isn't ideal.
One male is very restricting. A male should be chosen to compliment the female, so if the female has failings in one area, you choose a male who is strong in that area to balance it. If you're using the same male, repeatedly, on different females, then it suggests the breeder is not picking rats the compliment one another, but merely whatever is easiest or most available.
3. Avoid a breeder who breeds loads of different varieties, or who doesn't know what varieties they're producing.
Good rat breeders specialise in a few specific varieties, they do not just churn out rats of any and all varieties.
In the same way you would be cautious of a dog breeder who bred german shepherds, dobermans, labradors, yorkies, poodles and chihuahuas all at once, so should you be cautious of a breeder who breeds loads of different rat types: this creates a jack of all trades, master of none situation, and is almost certainly someone breeding for money rather than to improve rats.
The good breeders I know work with 2 or 3 varieties, and thats it. The more genes you bring into your breeding, the harder it becomes to get everything right.
Its like being an artist and trying to be perfect at 10 different types of media. You don't do this; you focus on getting good at one or two, then you might introduce another new one once you've perfected the first.
Some varieties go hand in hand. You'll sometimes find breeders specialising in one variety might have the occasional rat of a different variety available as it
Anyone who tells you they breed 'blues, hairless, mink, agouti, topaz, rex, siamese, and Chocolate is almost certainly breeding for the wrong reasons.
The main aim should be breeding to improve health, temperament and longevity, not to pump out a range of pretty colours.
A breeder should know, within reason, what to expect in their litter.
By knowing the grand parents, great grandparents and so on, you know the genes that are present in the line, and know what will crop up.
A good breeder can predict what varieties there will be in their litter pretty accurately.
Sometimes you get a throw back that has popped up, but generally, any breeder who says they have no idea what varieties the litter will contain probably has no idea what genes they're working with, meaning they can't be said to be breeding for health or temperament: you can only do that if you know WHAT you're breeding into your rats. If you don't know the great grandparent's varieties were, or what they carried, then you probably don't know their health or temperament either.
4. Avoid any breeder who tries to charge more money for 'rare' varieties.
Some crappy breeders try to sucker people into paying up to twice as much for a 'rare' variety.
Don't go for this.
You frequently see hairless sold for much more than a furred rat, or dumbos sold for more than a top-ear. Anyone doing this is just trying to cater to 'fads' and isn't concerned for much else but money.
There is absolutely NO reason to charge more for one variety over another, other than the fact that gullable people will pay more, thinking they're getting something unique.
All varieties are equally easy to produce, if you know what you're breeding to what. There is no such thing as a 'rare' variety. Dumbos pop out just as much as top ears, and having a whole litter of hairless is easy as pie!
The only time a variety is actually 'rare' is when it is not a recognised variety, and doesn't fit the standard of any recognised rat colouration. In this situation, it usually IS a real variety, but just a very poor example of it, not rare or new at all.
And good breeders don't generally produce 'poor' examples of a variety, at least not reguarly.
They may produce babies that aren't 'show quality' but they're still recognisable as the variety they are. It just like how a pedigree dog breeder will have pups in the litter that aren't show quality, but still clearly the breed that they're meant to be. This is how it is with rats. If you look at a rat and have absolutely no idea what it is, and it doesn't remotely match and written standard, chances are it came from a crappy breeder.
If a breeder is breeding rats that don't match any variety, and doing so deliberately and selling them as 'rare' types, run a mile. They're not breeding rarities, they're just breeding bad examples of the variety.
I have a whole rescue full of rats that aren't good examples of their variety, and a few that I have no idea what they're meant to even be.
If you're gonna buy from a good breeder, learn about your varieties, so you're not suckered in by some made-up variety of rat which is really just a bad example of a common colour.
It happens with blues fairly often. You see people selling 'sapphire blue' rats or 'rare japanese blues'. No such thing. They're either just regular blues, or they're crappy examples of the colour.
5. Avoid certain varieties.
There are some rat varieties that are considered unethical to breed. And you should be very cautious if a breeder is deliberately breeding for these varieties, particularly in the UK.
Tailless is the main one. It is considered unethical to breed these rats here in the UK, USA opinions may differ, and they are more accepted here, but still controversial.
Tailless can suffer from heat exhaustion, as a rat's main way of losing heat is through its tail. They can also suffer spinal and hip deformities.
These problems cannot be 'bred out' as they are directly related to the lack of a tail.
I would be dubious of the ethics of anyone breeding this variety.
Also, it is not at all uncommon to see people 'docking' the tails of baby rats so they can sell them as 'rare tailless' later on.
Avoid tailless, and avoid anyone who deliberately breeds them. No ethical breeder dabbles with this variety.
Hairless are less clear cut, but still, I am wary of breeders that focus on this variety.
Hairless have a number of health problems, from skin infections to eye infections to immune system deficiencies to lacation issues.
As there is more than one gene that causes hairlessness, not all lines will have all these issues. And it becomes more complex when you realise that a double rex rat (a baby bred from a rex to rex mating) can look exactly like a hairless, and you'd only know if it was a true hairless or not by knowing its family tree.
I've owned a number of hairless rats in my life, and some lived very healthy lives and died at good ages, no different to a furred rat.
Others have clearly suffered immensely, in all the ways listed above. I've had hairless have to have eyes removed from chronic infections (and one died from the op), I've had several hairless who have had clear immune system weaknesseses. One had a regular, small, isolated abscess on his belly, the kind rats get often which heal up on their own, quickly and without issue. He died the next day, from this simple abscess. Another took weeks to heal from a simple scratch that a normal rat would be over in days.
One had heart problems from the age of 5 months, and died before his first birthday, despite a lot of treatment. One had cushings disease and awful skin problems his entire adult life.
One, however, lived to be 3 years old and died in his sleep, surviving both a tumour removal op and TWO tail amputations. He clearly had no problems healing, or any problems with lifespan! He was the oldest rat I've ever had.
The inability to lactate seems to be common in hairless females.
In the UK, the general idea was to try and breed OUT the health issues that hairless rats have, with an aim to make them as healthy as any other variety.
But recent research has suggested that the health issues some hairless can get are directly linked to the gene that causes hairlessness, so is impossible to breed out without losing the hairless look.
This is a dodgy and controversial variety for anyone to be dealing with, and few to no reputable breeders in the UK breed it, or support breeding it.
Those that do isolate themselves and do the breeding on the sly, because they don't want the abuse it will bring from the rat community as a whole, and some people are still trying to breed this variety ethically, for the right reasons (to breed out the issues, if possible) but again, attitudes toward this variety in the UK are generally negative and pessimistic regarding their ability to be healthy.
At LEAST here in the UK, please be careful of a breeder who breeds hairless. They are currently the 'fad' rat of choice, and also churned out in huge numbers for snake food.
You would have a VERY hard time finding a breeder who is ethical, as in, matches all the above points so far, and focuses on hairless.
Double rex, however, is fine. Ethical breeders do breed this variety, and double rex breeding should not be a concern.
6. Paper-work/contracts/breeder's demands
A lot of breeders sell babies with a contract.
This states several basic requirements that need to be adhered to (usually common sense things like 'the rat must see a vet if it is ill' etc) and these usually state the rat is NOT to be bred from.
Good breeders do not allow random people to buy their rats and breed them.
Good breeders are protective over their genetic lines; they've put blood, sweat and tears into them, and do not want them ruined or 'polluted' by getting mixed with any random rat the owner decides to use.
If someone has spent 10 years trying to breed out respiratory problems from their lines, they are obviously concerned that someone doesn't use these rats to breed to an inferior rat, and just un-do all those years of work.
Not all breeders actually use contracts: some don't believe they are worth the paper they're written on, and don't hold up in court. It doesn't mean someone is a bad breeder for not printing out a physical contract.
But they WILL make the same demands of you (ie, no breeding from the rat, must get vet care, etc) just in person.
A good breeder will also take back ANY rat they've bred if the rat can no longer be kept. It doesn't matter if this is a month after the rat is sold, or 2 years after: a good breeder will always take their rats back, no matter what condition they're in or what age they are.
Be wary of any breeder who doesn't state this.
This is why good breeders are not the ones contributing to rat over-population; they will not allow their rats to end up in rescues or dumped, as they give the owner an option to return it.
Again, this comes down to being protective of their lines. It would tear the heart out of a good breeder to think a rat they'd bred had ended up in rescue, the lines they'd worked so hard on.
To sum up?
Research your breeder, grill them, ask them 100 questions.
What is their motive for breeding? If the answer is anything BUT 'to improve the health, temperament and longevity of the rat species', then run away.
How many are they breeding each year, do they have pedigrees on their rats which tell you their parents, grandparents, great grandparents and so on? How many times do they breed from a single girl? What varieties are they focusing on? Will they always take the rat back if it can no longer be kept? Do they demand the rat is not bred from? Do they know what varieties they're expecting from the litter?
This is a complex issue and I've only covered some of the important things here. And while people tend to put thought into choosing a dog breeder, they don't seem to apply the same thinking to buying a rat.
But its the same thing.
If you want a breeder rat, get a good one. If anyone needs help, I can answer questions anyone might have.
Mwahaha
Posted 14 years agoMy doberman pup was born on new year's day.
Had a mail from the breeder yesterday telling me the one male from the litter is earmarked for me.
I'll be going to visit him in a month.
Oh you'd better believe Im gonna spam the hell out of my FA with puppy pics when he arrives! >:)
Had a mail from the breeder yesterday telling me the one male from the litter is earmarked for me.
I'll be going to visit him in a month.
Oh you'd better believe Im gonna spam the hell out of my FA with puppy pics when he arrives! >:)
Don't try and educate unless you know your shit
Posted 14 years agoI'm getting tired of people leaving comments about other people's pets under the guise of being 'concerned' for them and trying to 'educate' the owner, but in reality, they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
You see it a lot here: people judging someone's entire pet keeping system on ONE photo or ONE statement.
I'd say, rather than accusing people of things, ASK them about the issues.
Rather than saying 'your rats are going to die if you keep them on pine bedding!' and making an assumption that what you're seeing is pine, ASK 'what kind of bedding is that?'
If the answer is pine, THEN you can give out the info. But don't just assume.
Before accusing someone of having an obese animal, ask if the animal is overweight in reality or if its just the angle of the pic/seasonal coat of the animal.
Before assuming someone keeps their rat in an unsuitable cage, ASK first if that is the animal's permanent cage, or whether it is just in that cage for the photo/transport to the vets/as a hospital cage.
Before assuming someone is an irresponsible owner because their dog is not neutered, ask WHY is isn't, many people don't believe in neutering their pets as it can affect their health and they're not necessarily just 'irresponsible' owners.
Before assuming a doberman 'isn't a pure bred dobe' because it has a full tail and ears, EDUCATE yourself on the breed and realise that in many countries, removal of the ears and tail is illegal and a cropped and docked dobe would look weird to US! (getting a dobe pup soon, with full tail, ears and dew-claws. Im looking forward to the comments from USA folk who ask me what breed it is because it doesn't look like the majority of their dobes!)
Before assuming a rat lives alone because there is only one rat in the photo, ASK if the rat has a companion; it may very well just be a photo shoot for that one individual, and he has a bunch of friends 'off scene'.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
We cannot tell much about an animal's life, its situation and its health from one single pic. If we are concerned by the presence, or absence, of something in the pic, ASK before outright accusing.
Also......PLEASE know your shit before you try and educate other people. There is nothing more pathetic than seeing someone leave a comment on someone else's animal trying to 'educate' them, when they are completely clueless themselves and are doing more damage by spreading false information!
For example, a friend recently had a comment aimed at her that 'lone rats will die of depression' and 'once a rat has a respiratory infection, its impossible to cure'.
Both bullshit.
Lone rats are bored, under-stimulated, unhappy and potentially suffer more health and behavioural problems, as well as an estimated shorter life. BUT......I've never known one to die from not having company.
I get loads of lone rats come into my rescue, rats that have been alone their entire lives, AND rats that have once known companionship and have lost their cage mate. They've all been very alive, and none have ever 'died of loneliness' before I could get to them!
Respiratory infections? The key word there is 'infection'. Infections are not permanent, nor incurable. Everyone reading this will have had an infection of some kind in their life, and we're cured now, aren't we?
There is something called 'antibiotics' which are very effective at treating most infections!
Now, I get what the person was trying to say 'lone rats are a bad idea, and respiratory infections are best avoided', but the way they went about saying it just made them look ignorant due to the addition of misinformation.
I've seen it a lot in rat communities: people give 'advice' when they have no business giving advice. Sure, they're trying to help, but you do more harm than good when you give out false information.
If someone asks me a question about rats that is outside of my knowledge, I will say so, I don't just guess the answer and pretend I know what I'm talking about.
Its dangerous.
I remember once seeing someone asking for nutrition advice for their ailing rat, and wanting ideas on what foods would be good to build him up. Someone suggested scrambled egg and fish, both very nutritious foods for rats which do them a lot of good, and are not bad ideas when trying to help a sick rat recover.
Someone then came along and left a statement akin to 'vegan foods are far better for rats, I'd go for nutritious non-animal products if I were you' or words to that effect. Because this particular person was a vegan themselves and had 'vegan' rats (in inverted commas since I believe veganism is a lifestyle and mindset based on one's personal morals and beliefs, and a rat cannot make a choice like that, ergo, they cannot be 'truly' vegan to me as it is forced on them, not chosen by them, and, to me, veganism is a very personal choice).
This was potentially dangerous.
The owner asking the advice was a novice owner, and likely to believe anything an older more experienced rat owner told them. And omitting animal products from a rats diet at the BEST of times takes very careful planning, if it ever can be said to work at all. Owning vegan rats is not something one should leap into on a whim or on one piece of advice.
But this owner was ready to drop the eggs and fish and lean chicken on this one comment. And seriously? If you're trying to bulk up a rat, particularly a young rat, these foods are without a doubt, the BEST foods to use.
So by following this advice, she was potentially putting back her rat's recovery and causing him more damage.
This is the problem with the internet: anyone can give anyone else advice, when they have no experience or information under their belt that qualifies them to do so. And people will often believe things others tell them without checking it out first, particularly if that person is a 'known' figure in the rat community and has had rats a long time.
I wouldn't dream of commenting on a picture of, say, a horse and spurting out advice on horse care. Because I know little about horses. Oh, my mum used to own one, I spent a lot of my childhood at the stables, playing in the hay bales (and waiting to catch a glimpse of wild rats), but that doesn't mean I know enough about horses to be giving out advice to anyone, about any horse issue, just because I grew up with one.
Unfortunately, people are ready to open their mouths and act as teacher when they really don't have the experience and knowledge to do so.
Or at the very least, if you're going to advise someone on something you're not an expert at yourself, word yourself to make them aware that you're not an expert yourself. The addition of terms like 'I have heard' or 'Im not sure on this but I suspect' is appropriate. That way, you're not marching in there as if you're the oracle and all your advice is gospel.
Am I an expert at rats? Hmmm....probably not. There is lots I don't know, and I learn something new, be it about health, behaviour, appropriate foods, the right meds, every single day.
But I know a lot. And I get a lot of questions thrown at me, probably 2 or 3 a day. And if Im not sure on something, I will make sure I make this clear that all I'm doing is hypothesising, not stating a fact.
To sum up?
1. ASK, don't assume. If you're not sure of something on a pic of an animal, ASK the owner for clarification first. If your doubts/suspicions are confirmed, THEN give advice. But never assume something about an animal based on one picture.
2. Know your shit before you try to teach someone else theirs. If you are unsure or less knowledgeable in one subject, make that known before you speak, otherwise the person may take your advice without checking it, and end up harming their animal more.
3. PLEASE learn cultural differences. The way some animals are kept/their appearance in the UK is different to the US and I'm tired of having American standards applied to my animals, as if the entire world MUST be American! I make no secret that I'm British, and we do things differently in some situations.
Here, for example, its common to allow cats to free roam, and is, generally, considered cruel to NOT let a healthy cat outside to roam. Some rescues won't even consider you as an adopter unless you can demonstrate that you'll allow your cat outside.
In the USA, it is the other way around, generally. I've had no end of abuse from American cat owners who have grown up with one system, and can't get their head around the fact that it isn't like that here.
We also don't declaw cats, we don't crop our dogs ears and dock their tails, and some breeds are illegal here (pitbulls, anyone? If you are seen with one here, the dog will be seized and probably destroyed, and the owner will be in trouble)
Again, it comes down to the old 'asking vs assuming' thing. If you see something you're not familiar with on an animal picture, do a little research and find out why the animal looks/is kept in this way, and you may discover it is a cultural difference, and not due to the owner being wrong because they're not doing it 'your way'.
Also be aware that some products are just not available in other countries. Trying to advise a USA rat owner and reeling off a load of products that are UK specific is pointless, and vice versa.
4. If you DO happen to be someone who is very knowledgeable and in an acceptable position to advice others, then please heed this: get over yourself a little. Yes, I said it. So many people in the animal world can be so very militant and unbending on so many issues, and will bully the hell out of anyone who is less knowledgeable, or who is doing something 'wrong'. 'Its my way or the highway' very much applies in lots of animal circles.
Now, there are things one can do to a rat that are unarguably incorrect, as in, they will harm the animal. Some things in pet keeping ARE black and white, either right or wrong.
But not everything.
There are many ways and variations in doing things, and just because it doesn't match your system 100%, that doesn't make it wrong.
You may well change YOUR set up or husbandry methods in a year's time. We all learn, develop and adapt new methods as we learn more and settle into owning that animal.
One person may get their rats out for 2 hours of free range, another may only be able to give 45 minutes. Both are fine, to me. One person may not give their rats hammocks because they destroy them, another may swear by their necessity, both are fine to me.
When you're knowledgeable on something, its easy to believe you are the guru and you can do no wrong. But always keep grounded. Of COURSE if something is blatantly harmful to an animal, it needs to change.
But things don't necessarily need to change just because they're not the way YOU do it.
People know their animals better than you know their animals. What works for your rats may not work for theirs.
And we were all beginners once. We've all made mistakes. And I bet we all wish that when we had made those mistakes, there'd been someone there to tell us nicely what we could do to change it, rather than accuse us of being animal abusers.
You see it a lot here: people judging someone's entire pet keeping system on ONE photo or ONE statement.
I'd say, rather than accusing people of things, ASK them about the issues.
Rather than saying 'your rats are going to die if you keep them on pine bedding!' and making an assumption that what you're seeing is pine, ASK 'what kind of bedding is that?'
If the answer is pine, THEN you can give out the info. But don't just assume.
Before accusing someone of having an obese animal, ask if the animal is overweight in reality or if its just the angle of the pic/seasonal coat of the animal.
Before assuming someone keeps their rat in an unsuitable cage, ASK first if that is the animal's permanent cage, or whether it is just in that cage for the photo/transport to the vets/as a hospital cage.
Before assuming someone is an irresponsible owner because their dog is not neutered, ask WHY is isn't, many people don't believe in neutering their pets as it can affect their health and they're not necessarily just 'irresponsible' owners.
Before assuming a doberman 'isn't a pure bred dobe' because it has a full tail and ears, EDUCATE yourself on the breed and realise that in many countries, removal of the ears and tail is illegal and a cropped and docked dobe would look weird to US! (getting a dobe pup soon, with full tail, ears and dew-claws. Im looking forward to the comments from USA folk who ask me what breed it is because it doesn't look like the majority of their dobes!)
Before assuming a rat lives alone because there is only one rat in the photo, ASK if the rat has a companion; it may very well just be a photo shoot for that one individual, and he has a bunch of friends 'off scene'.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
We cannot tell much about an animal's life, its situation and its health from one single pic. If we are concerned by the presence, or absence, of something in the pic, ASK before outright accusing.
Also......PLEASE know your shit before you try and educate other people. There is nothing more pathetic than seeing someone leave a comment on someone else's animal trying to 'educate' them, when they are completely clueless themselves and are doing more damage by spreading false information!
For example, a friend recently had a comment aimed at her that 'lone rats will die of depression' and 'once a rat has a respiratory infection, its impossible to cure'.
Both bullshit.
Lone rats are bored, under-stimulated, unhappy and potentially suffer more health and behavioural problems, as well as an estimated shorter life. BUT......I've never known one to die from not having company.
I get loads of lone rats come into my rescue, rats that have been alone their entire lives, AND rats that have once known companionship and have lost their cage mate. They've all been very alive, and none have ever 'died of loneliness' before I could get to them!
Respiratory infections? The key word there is 'infection'. Infections are not permanent, nor incurable. Everyone reading this will have had an infection of some kind in their life, and we're cured now, aren't we?
There is something called 'antibiotics' which are very effective at treating most infections!
Now, I get what the person was trying to say 'lone rats are a bad idea, and respiratory infections are best avoided', but the way they went about saying it just made them look ignorant due to the addition of misinformation.
I've seen it a lot in rat communities: people give 'advice' when they have no business giving advice. Sure, they're trying to help, but you do more harm than good when you give out false information.
If someone asks me a question about rats that is outside of my knowledge, I will say so, I don't just guess the answer and pretend I know what I'm talking about.
Its dangerous.
I remember once seeing someone asking for nutrition advice for their ailing rat, and wanting ideas on what foods would be good to build him up. Someone suggested scrambled egg and fish, both very nutritious foods for rats which do them a lot of good, and are not bad ideas when trying to help a sick rat recover.
Someone then came along and left a statement akin to 'vegan foods are far better for rats, I'd go for nutritious non-animal products if I were you' or words to that effect. Because this particular person was a vegan themselves and had 'vegan' rats (in inverted commas since I believe veganism is a lifestyle and mindset based on one's personal morals and beliefs, and a rat cannot make a choice like that, ergo, they cannot be 'truly' vegan to me as it is forced on them, not chosen by them, and, to me, veganism is a very personal choice).
This was potentially dangerous.
The owner asking the advice was a novice owner, and likely to believe anything an older more experienced rat owner told them. And omitting animal products from a rats diet at the BEST of times takes very careful planning, if it ever can be said to work at all. Owning vegan rats is not something one should leap into on a whim or on one piece of advice.
But this owner was ready to drop the eggs and fish and lean chicken on this one comment. And seriously? If you're trying to bulk up a rat, particularly a young rat, these foods are without a doubt, the BEST foods to use.
So by following this advice, she was potentially putting back her rat's recovery and causing him more damage.
This is the problem with the internet: anyone can give anyone else advice, when they have no experience or information under their belt that qualifies them to do so. And people will often believe things others tell them without checking it out first, particularly if that person is a 'known' figure in the rat community and has had rats a long time.
I wouldn't dream of commenting on a picture of, say, a horse and spurting out advice on horse care. Because I know little about horses. Oh, my mum used to own one, I spent a lot of my childhood at the stables, playing in the hay bales (and waiting to catch a glimpse of wild rats), but that doesn't mean I know enough about horses to be giving out advice to anyone, about any horse issue, just because I grew up with one.
Unfortunately, people are ready to open their mouths and act as teacher when they really don't have the experience and knowledge to do so.
Or at the very least, if you're going to advise someone on something you're not an expert at yourself, word yourself to make them aware that you're not an expert yourself. The addition of terms like 'I have heard' or 'Im not sure on this but I suspect' is appropriate. That way, you're not marching in there as if you're the oracle and all your advice is gospel.
Am I an expert at rats? Hmmm....probably not. There is lots I don't know, and I learn something new, be it about health, behaviour, appropriate foods, the right meds, every single day.
But I know a lot. And I get a lot of questions thrown at me, probably 2 or 3 a day. And if Im not sure on something, I will make sure I make this clear that all I'm doing is hypothesising, not stating a fact.
To sum up?
1. ASK, don't assume. If you're not sure of something on a pic of an animal, ASK the owner for clarification first. If your doubts/suspicions are confirmed, THEN give advice. But never assume something about an animal based on one picture.
2. Know your shit before you try to teach someone else theirs. If you are unsure or less knowledgeable in one subject, make that known before you speak, otherwise the person may take your advice without checking it, and end up harming their animal more.
3. PLEASE learn cultural differences. The way some animals are kept/their appearance in the UK is different to the US and I'm tired of having American standards applied to my animals, as if the entire world MUST be American! I make no secret that I'm British, and we do things differently in some situations.
Here, for example, its common to allow cats to free roam, and is, generally, considered cruel to NOT let a healthy cat outside to roam. Some rescues won't even consider you as an adopter unless you can demonstrate that you'll allow your cat outside.
In the USA, it is the other way around, generally. I've had no end of abuse from American cat owners who have grown up with one system, and can't get their head around the fact that it isn't like that here.
We also don't declaw cats, we don't crop our dogs ears and dock their tails, and some breeds are illegal here (pitbulls, anyone? If you are seen with one here, the dog will be seized and probably destroyed, and the owner will be in trouble)
Again, it comes down to the old 'asking vs assuming' thing. If you see something you're not familiar with on an animal picture, do a little research and find out why the animal looks/is kept in this way, and you may discover it is a cultural difference, and not due to the owner being wrong because they're not doing it 'your way'.
Also be aware that some products are just not available in other countries. Trying to advise a USA rat owner and reeling off a load of products that are UK specific is pointless, and vice versa.
4. If you DO happen to be someone who is very knowledgeable and in an acceptable position to advice others, then please heed this: get over yourself a little. Yes, I said it. So many people in the animal world can be so very militant and unbending on so many issues, and will bully the hell out of anyone who is less knowledgeable, or who is doing something 'wrong'. 'Its my way or the highway' very much applies in lots of animal circles.
Now, there are things one can do to a rat that are unarguably incorrect, as in, they will harm the animal. Some things in pet keeping ARE black and white, either right or wrong.
But not everything.
There are many ways and variations in doing things, and just because it doesn't match your system 100%, that doesn't make it wrong.
You may well change YOUR set up or husbandry methods in a year's time. We all learn, develop and adapt new methods as we learn more and settle into owning that animal.
One person may get their rats out for 2 hours of free range, another may only be able to give 45 minutes. Both are fine, to me. One person may not give their rats hammocks because they destroy them, another may swear by their necessity, both are fine to me.
When you're knowledgeable on something, its easy to believe you are the guru and you can do no wrong. But always keep grounded. Of COURSE if something is blatantly harmful to an animal, it needs to change.
But things don't necessarily need to change just because they're not the way YOU do it.
People know their animals better than you know their animals. What works for your rats may not work for theirs.
And we were all beginners once. We've all made mistakes. And I bet we all wish that when we had made those mistakes, there'd been someone there to tell us nicely what we could do to change it, rather than accuse us of being animal abusers.
Rattified commissions: open
Posted 14 years agoAs it says in this journal:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2891601/
£15 (uk pounds), paypal only. Payment will be requested when sketch is completed.
If interested, please note me the following:
1. A ref pic or two of your character
2. Your character's personality/how you want them portrayed in their ratty form (angry, goofy, sarcastic etc)
3. An item you want them to be drawn with, if any (some food, a toy etc)
4. Anything else I may need to know about the character that would be relevant to the pic.
These will be rats.
If your character is, say, a dragon normally, I will turn them into a rat. This means some things may have to be modified to 'work' in a rat body. For example, if your character is a dragon, or a bat, the rat form will obviously not feature wings.
Its basically what would be produced if your character went into a lab and got zapped into rat form. Markings and such, no matter how colourful or outlandish, will be reproduced onto the rat.
I'm not drawing rats with 'natural' markings; they will be as they are on your character.
If interested, note me!
Al money will go toward the rat sanctuary.
Thanks
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2891601/
£15 (uk pounds), paypal only. Payment will be requested when sketch is completed.
If interested, please note me the following:
1. A ref pic or two of your character
2. Your character's personality/how you want them portrayed in their ratty form (angry, goofy, sarcastic etc)
3. An item you want them to be drawn with, if any (some food, a toy etc)
4. Anything else I may need to know about the character that would be relevant to the pic.
These will be rats.
If your character is, say, a dragon normally, I will turn them into a rat. This means some things may have to be modified to 'work' in a rat body. For example, if your character is a dragon, or a bat, the rat form will obviously not feature wings.
Its basically what would be produced if your character went into a lab and got zapped into rat form. Markings and such, no matter how colourful or outlandish, will be reproduced onto the rat.
I'm not drawing rats with 'natural' markings; they will be as they are on your character.
If interested, note me!
Al money will go toward the rat sanctuary.
Thanks
Abusing then blocking
Posted 14 years agoJust don't bother.
If you want to start something with me, if you CHOOSE to do that, at least have the rocks to fight your corner when challenged.
If you wish to start drama on my page, then want to block and run away, you're only showing that you don't have any way to defend yourself. Or you're a troll.
If you are unable to continue a good debate, please don't start one.
If you're a troll, go troll elsewhere. There are more entertaining people out there than me.
If you want to start something with me, if you CHOOSE to do that, at least have the rocks to fight your corner when challenged.
If you wish to start drama on my page, then want to block and run away, you're only showing that you don't have any way to defend yourself. Or you're a troll.
If you are unable to continue a good debate, please don't start one.
If you're a troll, go troll elsewhere. There are more entertaining people out there than me.
why not to use pet shops
Posted 14 years agoI've probably touched on this before, but it bears repeating.
People often ask me why Im so opposed to pet shops that sell animals.
Many reasons.
Even people who are seemingly good owners in all other ways sometimes don't understand why I boycott these pet shops.
The main reason is this:
Any pet shop above a tiny, independent one, will source its animals from a rodent mill.
A rodent mill is a huge breeding mill for rats, guinea pigs, hamsters, mice, gerbils and sometimes rabbits. Think a puppy mill, but replace the puppies with rodents.
Its the exact same thing. And this is why it baffles me that people who fiercely oppose puppy mills, still happily buy rats from pet shops regularly.
Is it ignorance? Or just that double standard again, you know, the one where there is one rule for dogs and cats but another for rats?
Large pet shops have to have a regular supply of animals. And they have to be young animals. Most shops struggle to sell animals that are out of the 'cute baby' stage, and with rats, that can happen at about 10 weeks. Have a tank of 6 week old rats, with one left over 10 week old, and you know which ones are going to sell quickest.
Pet shops do not have an interest in caring for and spending money feeding an animal that isn't going to make them a profit.
And the longer they house and feed an animal, the more money they have to spend on it, and the less profit they'll make.
They have to shift these animals when they're young, before they've sucked up too many resources, and when people will still impulse buy due to the 'aaaaw' factor.
Pet shops are businesses. Bottom line.
Like any other business, they have to make money, or they fail. When you are dealing with animals, the way you make money is to cut corners on their care.
Pet shops buy baby rats for, on average, a pound or two each. They sell them on for several times that amount.
The conditions on rodent farms are as deplorable as those in puppy farms.
Below is a link to some photos taken at an actual rodent mill. And bear in mind, this was a 'GOOD' rodent mill, and fairly well run in comparison to most:
http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/communi.....=5&t=85838
The females are kept continually pregnant.
A doe can have one litter suckling, one running about ready to leave, and be pregnant with a third, all at the same time.
When the rats are too old, or otherwise unable to make babies, they're killed.
And do you think they take each unwanted rat to the vet for a proper euthanasia? Not a chance. I'll leave it up to your imagination how these animals are killed.
These mothers know nothing but their tiny plastic box, and churning out babies.
They're not fed the correct nutrition that a nursing mum needs (ie, high levels of protein, which cannot be provided with a simple lab block) because providing these nutrients via chicken, fish, kale and the things a good rat owner would do is expensive.
Again, we're talking cutting corners here.
The rats are not bred to ANY standard. There is no concern for health, temperament or life span. The rodent mill owner couldn't care less what happens to the rats once they're bought from him; if they all drop dead of cancer at 6 months, he doesn't care, he's got his money.
Breeding for life span and health isn't a concern.
The rats are never handled until the day they're loaded up to be shipped to pet shops all over the country.
Then they sit in the store for a while longer. When you take your pet shop rat home, at somewhere between 6-8 weeks, this will be the first time they've ever been cuddled, held, and the first time they've ever been in a home, and this is why pet shop rats are frequently more skittish, nervous and difficult than rats from a good breeder (who handles them from day one).
When you buy a rat from a pet shop, you free up a gap for another rodent mill rat to come in.
You give the pet shop money, who then give that money to the rodent mill, who use it to breed more misery.
Its simple supply and demand.
If we do not buy these rats, the demand will go down, and pet shops will realise there is no profit to be made in these animals, and stop stocking them.
Most of us would never dream of going to a pet shop for our new puppy or kitten. But we go there to pick up a rat or a hamster.
Even buying items, rather than animals, from these shops is supporting them.
Most pet shops don't make their main profit from the animals; they make it from the supplies.
When someone comes in to buy a rat, they want you to also buy food, a cage, toys, litter etc and thats how they make their money.
And they rely on you to go back regularly for more food and litter and toys.
The only way we can stop this is the same way we stop puppy farms: we don't give them money.
It can be heartbreaking to leave a rat in a pet shop and walk away, but it needs to be done.
For every rat you 'save' from these places, another is waiting to come in.
If a pet shop realises it sold even one less rat that week, it may order one less the next week.
For every sorry little rat sitting in a pet shop, there is a rat sitting in rescue who needs you just as much, and you know by taking this rat in you are not funding any animal abuse and are allowing the rescue centre to take in more needy rats.
A rescue centre, or a good breeder, will always be there to help you, to answer your questions, and they'll take back any rat you can no longer keep, at any point in that rat's life.
Does a pet shop offer this?
Most pet shops do not use the words 'rodent mill' and will be quite defensive if you broach this with them. They will tell you they use 'a local breeder'. But ask if you can visit these premises, and you will be denied.
If the public knew where these animals come from, people would not use pet shops, so it is not in their interests to let this information out.
Aside from the fact that buying a rat from a pet shop is supporting breeding mills, it also means you're less likely to get a friendly, healthy rat.
As I said earlier, no thought goes into their breeding; the mills want to churn out as many as possible as quickly as possible, they don't care how healthy they are.
Pet shop rats are, in general, shorter-lived and suffer more health issues than rats from good breeders, who breed specifically for good health and temperament.
We all slip up.
I have bought a pet shop rat in the past, but haven't done so for 7 years. And I don't intend to ever again.
But I don't hate people who slip up and get the odd rat they fall in love with. But I do get offended when people regularly use pet shops, knowing full well where these animals come from and what they're supporting.
Next time you go into a pet shop, ask yourself if you'd support a puppy farm. If the answer is no, do not support a rodent farm.
People often ask me why Im so opposed to pet shops that sell animals.
Many reasons.
Even people who are seemingly good owners in all other ways sometimes don't understand why I boycott these pet shops.
The main reason is this:
Any pet shop above a tiny, independent one, will source its animals from a rodent mill.
A rodent mill is a huge breeding mill for rats, guinea pigs, hamsters, mice, gerbils and sometimes rabbits. Think a puppy mill, but replace the puppies with rodents.
Its the exact same thing. And this is why it baffles me that people who fiercely oppose puppy mills, still happily buy rats from pet shops regularly.
Is it ignorance? Or just that double standard again, you know, the one where there is one rule for dogs and cats but another for rats?
Large pet shops have to have a regular supply of animals. And they have to be young animals. Most shops struggle to sell animals that are out of the 'cute baby' stage, and with rats, that can happen at about 10 weeks. Have a tank of 6 week old rats, with one left over 10 week old, and you know which ones are going to sell quickest.
Pet shops do not have an interest in caring for and spending money feeding an animal that isn't going to make them a profit.
And the longer they house and feed an animal, the more money they have to spend on it, and the less profit they'll make.
They have to shift these animals when they're young, before they've sucked up too many resources, and when people will still impulse buy due to the 'aaaaw' factor.
Pet shops are businesses. Bottom line.
Like any other business, they have to make money, or they fail. When you are dealing with animals, the way you make money is to cut corners on their care.
Pet shops buy baby rats for, on average, a pound or two each. They sell them on for several times that amount.
The conditions on rodent farms are as deplorable as those in puppy farms.
Below is a link to some photos taken at an actual rodent mill. And bear in mind, this was a 'GOOD' rodent mill, and fairly well run in comparison to most:
http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/communi.....=5&t=85838
The females are kept continually pregnant.
A doe can have one litter suckling, one running about ready to leave, and be pregnant with a third, all at the same time.
When the rats are too old, or otherwise unable to make babies, they're killed.
And do you think they take each unwanted rat to the vet for a proper euthanasia? Not a chance. I'll leave it up to your imagination how these animals are killed.
These mothers know nothing but their tiny plastic box, and churning out babies.
They're not fed the correct nutrition that a nursing mum needs (ie, high levels of protein, which cannot be provided with a simple lab block) because providing these nutrients via chicken, fish, kale and the things a good rat owner would do is expensive.
Again, we're talking cutting corners here.
The rats are not bred to ANY standard. There is no concern for health, temperament or life span. The rodent mill owner couldn't care less what happens to the rats once they're bought from him; if they all drop dead of cancer at 6 months, he doesn't care, he's got his money.
Breeding for life span and health isn't a concern.
The rats are never handled until the day they're loaded up to be shipped to pet shops all over the country.
Then they sit in the store for a while longer. When you take your pet shop rat home, at somewhere between 6-8 weeks, this will be the first time they've ever been cuddled, held, and the first time they've ever been in a home, and this is why pet shop rats are frequently more skittish, nervous and difficult than rats from a good breeder (who handles them from day one).
When you buy a rat from a pet shop, you free up a gap for another rodent mill rat to come in.
You give the pet shop money, who then give that money to the rodent mill, who use it to breed more misery.
Its simple supply and demand.
If we do not buy these rats, the demand will go down, and pet shops will realise there is no profit to be made in these animals, and stop stocking them.
Most of us would never dream of going to a pet shop for our new puppy or kitten. But we go there to pick up a rat or a hamster.
Even buying items, rather than animals, from these shops is supporting them.
Most pet shops don't make their main profit from the animals; they make it from the supplies.
When someone comes in to buy a rat, they want you to also buy food, a cage, toys, litter etc and thats how they make their money.
And they rely on you to go back regularly for more food and litter and toys.
The only way we can stop this is the same way we stop puppy farms: we don't give them money.
It can be heartbreaking to leave a rat in a pet shop and walk away, but it needs to be done.
For every rat you 'save' from these places, another is waiting to come in.
If a pet shop realises it sold even one less rat that week, it may order one less the next week.
For every sorry little rat sitting in a pet shop, there is a rat sitting in rescue who needs you just as much, and you know by taking this rat in you are not funding any animal abuse and are allowing the rescue centre to take in more needy rats.
A rescue centre, or a good breeder, will always be there to help you, to answer your questions, and they'll take back any rat you can no longer keep, at any point in that rat's life.
Does a pet shop offer this?
Most pet shops do not use the words 'rodent mill' and will be quite defensive if you broach this with them. They will tell you they use 'a local breeder'. But ask if you can visit these premises, and you will be denied.
If the public knew where these animals come from, people would not use pet shops, so it is not in their interests to let this information out.
Aside from the fact that buying a rat from a pet shop is supporting breeding mills, it also means you're less likely to get a friendly, healthy rat.
As I said earlier, no thought goes into their breeding; the mills want to churn out as many as possible as quickly as possible, they don't care how healthy they are.
Pet shop rats are, in general, shorter-lived and suffer more health issues than rats from good breeders, who breed specifically for good health and temperament.
We all slip up.
I have bought a pet shop rat in the past, but haven't done so for 7 years. And I don't intend to ever again.
But I don't hate people who slip up and get the odd rat they fall in love with. But I do get offended when people regularly use pet shops, knowing full well where these animals come from and what they're supporting.
Next time you go into a pet shop, ask yourself if you'd support a puppy farm. If the answer is no, do not support a rodent farm.
New boys, one special needs
Posted 14 years agoHad two new lads come in on friday.
Typical 'got for the kid, kid is bored and never bothers with them anymore' situation.
Nice people, though.
I was told the 'white one' was difficult to handle, and squealed when he was touched. I've seen this before in rats that haven't been handled enough, I wasn't concerned.
I planned to rehome these lads, but it soon became apparent that they wouldn't be good rehoming candidates.
They were both crackly, possibly stress or the cruddy litter the owner was using, and both nervous.
The black and white boy, whom I named Rorschach, was the usual kind of nervous that I see: not keen on being picked up, tended to freeze, clearly not comfortable, but tolerant of it.
But the white lad absolutely screamed at me when I attempted to pick him up. He went so nuts that I had to let him go on top of the cage because I was worried he'd bite me.
Still figured he was just not used to being held, and had probably been dropped or squeezed by the kid in the past so just didn't trust handling any more.
Last night, we let both the boys out onto the bed, their first proper run out since they've been here.
It became clear that something was very wrong with the white lad.
I first noticed that he didn't walk quite right. He sort of 'goose-steps' with his front legs, like he isn't sure where the ground is.
He has his head up in the air constantly, just sniffing every tiny scent.
He would trot around, then blunder into my arm. Then he walked right up to my face, and had no idea I was there until he touched me.
Jon and I suspected he may be blind.
Blindness isn't actually a big deal for rats; they have awful eye-sight at the best of times, and their eyes aren't their main sense so they tend to do ok.
But the more we watched him, the more we realised he is actually deaf, too.
He does not respond to any sounds, you can clap your hands right beside his face and he doesn't flinch. Rorschach, on the other hand, was going mad dashing and hiding from these loud noises, and flinching each time we clapped, but white boy was totally oblivious.
I squealed right near him, something that would send a nervous rat running off.
Not a flinch.
He was asleep this morning, and I called him repeatedly, tapped the bars, clapped, not a single response.
But Rorschach behaved much as a rat should to these noises.
This explains why he is so unhappy being touched: he doesn't know its coming, and it takes him by surprise.
We realised that once you have your hands on him, if you KEEP your hands on him, he settles down and actually enjoys a cuddle. But the second you break contact with him, then touch him again, he screams.
It must be horrible to have no way of knowing that you're about to be touched.
In light of him being deaf and blind, I've named him Tommy.
Rorschach is wonderful with him. It was very clear last night that he is Tommy's protector. He is never more than a few inches from him, he returns to his side every few minutes to groom him and reassure him that he's there. He even took my finger when I was scritching Tommy and nudged it aside, like he was saying 'don't touch my friend'.
He's constantly grooming Tommy, and leads him around like a guide dog.
Its really touching and very eye-opening to how wonderful rats are.
Here they are:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=52d6e6ea7a
More to follow.
These two will NOT go into the big group; Tommy wouldn't manage.
They will remain indoor rats, in our bedroom, from now on.
Typical 'got for the kid, kid is bored and never bothers with them anymore' situation.
Nice people, though.
I was told the 'white one' was difficult to handle, and squealed when he was touched. I've seen this before in rats that haven't been handled enough, I wasn't concerned.
I planned to rehome these lads, but it soon became apparent that they wouldn't be good rehoming candidates.
They were both crackly, possibly stress or the cruddy litter the owner was using, and both nervous.
The black and white boy, whom I named Rorschach, was the usual kind of nervous that I see: not keen on being picked up, tended to freeze, clearly not comfortable, but tolerant of it.
But the white lad absolutely screamed at me when I attempted to pick him up. He went so nuts that I had to let him go on top of the cage because I was worried he'd bite me.
Still figured he was just not used to being held, and had probably been dropped or squeezed by the kid in the past so just didn't trust handling any more.
Last night, we let both the boys out onto the bed, their first proper run out since they've been here.
It became clear that something was very wrong with the white lad.
I first noticed that he didn't walk quite right. He sort of 'goose-steps' with his front legs, like he isn't sure where the ground is.
He has his head up in the air constantly, just sniffing every tiny scent.
He would trot around, then blunder into my arm. Then he walked right up to my face, and had no idea I was there until he touched me.
Jon and I suspected he may be blind.
Blindness isn't actually a big deal for rats; they have awful eye-sight at the best of times, and their eyes aren't their main sense so they tend to do ok.
But the more we watched him, the more we realised he is actually deaf, too.
He does not respond to any sounds, you can clap your hands right beside his face and he doesn't flinch. Rorschach, on the other hand, was going mad dashing and hiding from these loud noises, and flinching each time we clapped, but white boy was totally oblivious.
I squealed right near him, something that would send a nervous rat running off.
Not a flinch.
He was asleep this morning, and I called him repeatedly, tapped the bars, clapped, not a single response.
But Rorschach behaved much as a rat should to these noises.
This explains why he is so unhappy being touched: he doesn't know its coming, and it takes him by surprise.
We realised that once you have your hands on him, if you KEEP your hands on him, he settles down and actually enjoys a cuddle. But the second you break contact with him, then touch him again, he screams.
It must be horrible to have no way of knowing that you're about to be touched.
In light of him being deaf and blind, I've named him Tommy.
Rorschach is wonderful with him. It was very clear last night that he is Tommy's protector. He is never more than a few inches from him, he returns to his side every few minutes to groom him and reassure him that he's there. He even took my finger when I was scritching Tommy and nudged it aside, like he was saying 'don't touch my friend'.
He's constantly grooming Tommy, and leads him around like a guide dog.
Its really touching and very eye-opening to how wonderful rats are.
Here they are:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=52d6e6ea7a
More to follow.
These two will NOT go into the big group; Tommy wouldn't manage.
They will remain indoor rats, in our bedroom, from now on.
been ill
Posted 14 years agoIf I've not been here for the last week or so, its because I've been mad ill.
I've never ever had flu in my life, and Im still not sure if thats exactly what I had as it was SO bad, but either way, I had a flu-type thing. It was fucking awful. Started monday when I just woke up with absolutely no energy at all. I could barely get out of bed, and I had this horrible pain behind my eyes when I moved my eyes left or right. I thought I might be going to get a migraine, as Im always knackered for the first day before a migraine.
I took the night off work, but was really just tired and drained with this odd headache, not much else.
Woke up the next day with every single joint in my body aching like I'd been hit by a bus in the night. Still had no energy, tried to get up, nearly blacked out. I knew something was wrong now. My temperature was 38.5 which is a bit higher than normal. During the day, it got worse and worse, I felt sick all the time, could hardly keep water down, couldn't stand up, couldn't watch TV, couldn't go online, just laid in bed for hours in pain :/
That night my temperature was 39.6.
I went to the doctor the next day and she thought it was a flu type virus and said it should go in a few days.
I started to get better saturday, as in, I stopped throwing everything back up again at least.
To give you an idea of how ill I was, I didn't go out to see the rats for 4 days. Jon fed and watered them for this time. I go out into my rat shed in the snow, the rain, I've been out there with all kinds of ailments and got on with the job. I just couldn't do it at all. If it weren't for Jon, I don't know what I'd have done.
So Im just starting to get back to feeling normal again. Still a little sick and need to get back to actually moving about again, but thats why I haven't been about much.
Should be from now on :)
I've never ever had flu in my life, and Im still not sure if thats exactly what I had as it was SO bad, but either way, I had a flu-type thing. It was fucking awful. Started monday when I just woke up with absolutely no energy at all. I could barely get out of bed, and I had this horrible pain behind my eyes when I moved my eyes left or right. I thought I might be going to get a migraine, as Im always knackered for the first day before a migraine.
I took the night off work, but was really just tired and drained with this odd headache, not much else.
Woke up the next day with every single joint in my body aching like I'd been hit by a bus in the night. Still had no energy, tried to get up, nearly blacked out. I knew something was wrong now. My temperature was 38.5 which is a bit higher than normal. During the day, it got worse and worse, I felt sick all the time, could hardly keep water down, couldn't stand up, couldn't watch TV, couldn't go online, just laid in bed for hours in pain :/
That night my temperature was 39.6.
I went to the doctor the next day and she thought it was a flu type virus and said it should go in a few days.
I started to get better saturday, as in, I stopped throwing everything back up again at least.
To give you an idea of how ill I was, I didn't go out to see the rats for 4 days. Jon fed and watered them for this time. I go out into my rat shed in the snow, the rain, I've been out there with all kinds of ailments and got on with the job. I just couldn't do it at all. If it weren't for Jon, I don't know what I'd have done.
So Im just starting to get back to feeling normal again. Still a little sick and need to get back to actually moving about again, but thats why I haven't been about much.
Should be from now on :)
Inbreeding
Posted 14 years agoAfter a recent debate on this subject with people who had absolutely no idea what inbreeding actually IS, it struck me that lots of people, even fairly knowledgeable rat owners, are clueless about inbreeding.
If you are a breeder, of anything, but lets use rats as our example, and you mention inbreeding, you'll probably get lots of 'OMG THATS AWFUL!' responses.
Because we are raised to believe that, generally, inbreeding is bad.
You see it all the time. Any health problem or issue an animal has, particularly a pedigree animal, someone out there will imply its due to inbreeding.
Because most people don't actually understand what inbreeding is or what it results in.
Heres the facts for you.
Inbreeding is NOT a bad thing IF done by someone who knows what they're doing. It CAN be a hazardous thing when done by someone who has no idea what they're doing.
But the truth is that all the most ethical, reputable, top rat breeders in this country inbreed to a degree.
The most common assumption about inbreeding is that it causes deformities or health problems.
This is not true.
Inbreeding never causes health problems. It cannot create a health problem that isn't there to begin with. What inbreeding does do is show up the health problems that already exist.
There can be health issues that exist silently in your rats for generations that you never know are there until you breed to a rat carrying the same issues then wham, there they are. And you'd have no idea whether the issues were down to the doe, the buck, the pairing etc.
Inbreeding, done correctly, will bring these issues out and show you what you're breeding in, so you can adjust your breeding appropriately.
As well as bringing out hidden bad qualities, inbreeding is just as likely to bring out hidden good qualities. With rats, this may be resistance to cancer, longer life span, resistance to respiratory issues etc.
In fact, it is claimed that inbreeding alone is responsible for the virtual eradication of Megacolon in the UK rat fancy. This is an awful condition which still exists in the USA, but is virtually non-existent in the UK rat population, thanks to inbreeding.
Most of the top breeders in the UK, who are consistently producing the healthiest and longest lived rats, think inbreeding is actually the ONLY way to create healthy rats.
Outcrossing, ie, taking in 'new blood' from outside is no less risky than inbreeding, and actually, can carry far more risk.
You have no idea WHAT you're bringing in when you outcross and it can result in spreading rogue genes randomly throughout the rat population.
Outcrossed litters are a lottery; sometimes the genes work well together, sometimes they don't.
There are certain countries where inbreeding is frowned upon, and I will tell you now that they have trouble consistently producing long-lived, healthy rats because they are always creating a 'melting pot' of genes that are not predictable.
As a friend of mine once said 'if you breed opposites, the best you can ask for is for everything to be average'.
We don't want 'average' for rats, we want excellent.
How very true.
Use this analogy:
You have two different jigsaw puzzles, both with bits missing. Your chances of completing the picture is slim.
But if you had two halfs of the SAME puzzle, you are far more likely to achieve the complete picture. You have a higher chance of completing a picture by using two sets of the same resource, not adding a completely different one (not my analogy, but a bloody good one).
Outcrossing IS a useful tool in breeding, but so is inbreeding. Too much outcrossing is as bad as too much inbreeding.
Inbreeding shows up bad traits, and seals in good ones.
Its a VERY complex subject, and as I don't breed, I can only really go into it in simple terms. There is more info out there on inbreeding and its benefits, written by actual breeders and geneticists who know far more about it.
But please, next time you're ready to blame inbreeding for the poor health of an animal, think again.
Its even hypothesised that if careful inbreeding was utilised in the human population, it could obliterate many serious diseases.
Of course, it would never happen with humans, we're a different kettle of fish to animals, and Im not advocating it be attempted! But in theory, it could bring huge benefits to human kind just as it does to animals, when done correctly.
I have tried extensively to explain this topic to people who are opposed to inbreeding, and faced lots of hostility. And I've noticed that every single person who screeches and whines about inbreeding has NO idea about what it really means.
They've just been raised, like most of us, to hear 'inbreeding' and have this 'the hills have eyes' picture pop into their head.
Without even bothering to actually research the topic, they fiercely oppose it.
And you know what? I used to, too.
I used to be exactly like that. I'd been influenced by popular views that inbreeding was always bad, and had never actually researched it myself. Never even thought to.
Since then, I have. If the top breeders in the country are doing it, and they would not do ANYTHING that was not beneficial to rats, then it warranted further investigation.
I merely ask that people research this topic before leaping in with 'OMG INBREEDING IS HORRIBLE!'
Its not. And in fact, it is the ONLY way to create truely healthy, long lived, good quality rats.
This is a good link to get started:
http://carawatha.tripod.com/inbreeding.htm
New boy, Scooter
Posted 14 years agoYesterday, Jon went into pets at home to get some mince for the ferrets while I was at work, and texted me to say there was a lone dumbo lad in the adoption centre.
He knows I will occasionally take on lone rats in the adoption centre, and I had just lost Mandylor on monday so he wanted to get me a little dumbo lad to help me. Was really sweet of him.
This rats notes said this rat had previously had a UTI (urinary tract infection) but he'd been vet treated and was all fine now.
I texted Jon and told him to get the little lad. When he got him home, he texted me again to say he didn't think the boy was very well, as he'd opened his box and found it full of blood.
Jon is a medic, so he has medical knowledge, even if its not specific to rats! He sent me a pic, and the little rat clearly had blood in his poo, not his wee.
Jon also said he thought he was anaemic and advised me to make a vet appointment for him after work.
When he picked me up, he brought the little boy, whom I named Scooter, with him so we could go right to the vet.
With just one look, I could see he wasn't well. His ears were absolutely white, and his front teeth too He was very bright, very perky, but obviously very anaemic and I could see the blood in his poo.
The vet could feel a thickening in his bowel, but said it could be due to a number of causes from parasites to ulcers to infection to cancer. He didn't give Scooter much hope of recovery, and said that if I wanted to euthanise him there and then, it wouldn't be a mistake.
But since he was still eating, bright, curious and didn't seem in pain, I couldn't just give up on him without treatment so I asked if we could try something.
Scooter had a shot of voren (a steroid, dexamethasone, I think), and was given some synulox drops (antibiotic) and panacur (wormer) to go home with.
He is apparently only 6 months old (I personally think younger, or it could just be that he's stunted).
Today, he did a poo and I coudn't see any blood in it at all, it looked normal to me, but obviously he's still horribly pale. Im giving him iron supplements in his water, as well as lots of good food and Kale.
Im not hopeful he will recover. I had a very young rat, Marco, from the same source some years back to had an enormous internal mass and had to be put to sleep about 2 weeks later. The rats from this store, and most pet shops, are horrendously bred and getting something this serious at this young of an age is not a surprise.
I think that ultimately, I believe he will die or need to be put to sleep. He'd just so anaemic and pale and I've never seen a rat this anaemic recover from it.
Im treating him like a terminally ill child; he may not have long with me, but Im going to make his time with me as good as it can possibly be.
I called pets at home today and told them I was concerned that their 'vet' hadn't picked up on his issues, since it took me one minute to notice he was anaemic, and my vet took seconds to discover his thickened bowel.
P@h said he'd seen 'three different vets'. Well, that's either a lie, or they're utterly incompetent vets!
Long story short, they're reimbursing my £50 vet bill.
And pets at home are meant to be the 'best' pet shop in the UK. Fantastic.
This is Scooter:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=53a78b0dfb
You can see on some of the pics that his top teeth are white. A healthy rat's teeth should be bright orange. He's so anaemic that his teeth don't even have colour.
Im told he looks like a blue-based variety, which previously did have issues with anaemia and bleeding disorders. Its mostly been bred out of good quality rats, but is still common in pet shop and BYB rats :(
He knows I will occasionally take on lone rats in the adoption centre, and I had just lost Mandylor on monday so he wanted to get me a little dumbo lad to help me. Was really sweet of him.
This rats notes said this rat had previously had a UTI (urinary tract infection) but he'd been vet treated and was all fine now.
I texted Jon and told him to get the little lad. When he got him home, he texted me again to say he didn't think the boy was very well, as he'd opened his box and found it full of blood.
Jon is a medic, so he has medical knowledge, even if its not specific to rats! He sent me a pic, and the little rat clearly had blood in his poo, not his wee.
Jon also said he thought he was anaemic and advised me to make a vet appointment for him after work.
When he picked me up, he brought the little boy, whom I named Scooter, with him so we could go right to the vet.
With just one look, I could see he wasn't well. His ears were absolutely white, and his front teeth too He was very bright, very perky, but obviously very anaemic and I could see the blood in his poo.
The vet could feel a thickening in his bowel, but said it could be due to a number of causes from parasites to ulcers to infection to cancer. He didn't give Scooter much hope of recovery, and said that if I wanted to euthanise him there and then, it wouldn't be a mistake.
But since he was still eating, bright, curious and didn't seem in pain, I couldn't just give up on him without treatment so I asked if we could try something.
Scooter had a shot of voren (a steroid, dexamethasone, I think), and was given some synulox drops (antibiotic) and panacur (wormer) to go home with.
He is apparently only 6 months old (I personally think younger, or it could just be that he's stunted).
Today, he did a poo and I coudn't see any blood in it at all, it looked normal to me, but obviously he's still horribly pale. Im giving him iron supplements in his water, as well as lots of good food and Kale.
Im not hopeful he will recover. I had a very young rat, Marco, from the same source some years back to had an enormous internal mass and had to be put to sleep about 2 weeks later. The rats from this store, and most pet shops, are horrendously bred and getting something this serious at this young of an age is not a surprise.
I think that ultimately, I believe he will die or need to be put to sleep. He'd just so anaemic and pale and I've never seen a rat this anaemic recover from it.
Im treating him like a terminally ill child; he may not have long with me, but Im going to make his time with me as good as it can possibly be.
I called pets at home today and told them I was concerned that their 'vet' hadn't picked up on his issues, since it took me one minute to notice he was anaemic, and my vet took seconds to discover his thickened bowel.
P@h said he'd seen 'three different vets'. Well, that's either a lie, or they're utterly incompetent vets!
Long story short, they're reimbursing my £50 vet bill.
And pets at home are meant to be the 'best' pet shop in the UK. Fantastic.
This is Scooter:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=53a78b0dfb
You can see on some of the pics that his top teeth are white. A healthy rat's teeth should be bright orange. He's so anaemic that his teeth don't even have colour.
Im told he looks like a blue-based variety, which previously did have issues with anaemia and bleeding disorders. Its mostly been bred out of good quality rats, but is still common in pet shop and BYB rats :(
Rat having their chicken
Posted 14 years agoJust some fun. The ferrets and cats get fed raw, so we often have left over meat which the ratties get!
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=6f6cd249de
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=6f6cd249de
Mandylor
Posted 14 years agoLost my heart-rat, Mandylor, last night.
Devastated isn't the word. He was the world to me. He slept on my bed, he went everywhere with me.
He was only 18 months old, if that.
He'd been the picture of health, then last night he very suddenly began to experience pain in his flank and back, and was squeaking and nipping at me in pain (he would NEVER bite, it was totally against his nature).
I have no idea what caused it, and so suddenly. He'd been fine prior to this. His back legs had also suddenly become paralysed, and had no feeling in them when pinched.
I could only guess he'd had a fall and bruised his spine. This can cause temporary paralysis in rats, but the feeling returns once the bruising goes down, so painkillers and rest, perhaps a steroid, is all that can be done.
I gave him his pain meds, gave him a lovely soft bed in a hospital cage and spoon fed him as he couldn't move. He ate well, drank well, and once he'd found a comfortable position, he was quite calm and peaceful. A rat that eats that enthusiastically isn't on death's door.
I got up super early to book him a vet appointment first thing, but he'd passed away over night.
No-one knows what was wrong. He didn't act like anything more than a trauma to his back had occured, nothing life threatening, and all the research I did about it suggested it would improve in a few days.
He was from the same rescue as Hoffman, who I lost a short while ago.
I miss him so much. He was my very special boy.
Its my birthday tomorrow. Its not going to be a good one.
Devastated isn't the word. He was the world to me. He slept on my bed, he went everywhere with me.
He was only 18 months old, if that.
He'd been the picture of health, then last night he very suddenly began to experience pain in his flank and back, and was squeaking and nipping at me in pain (he would NEVER bite, it was totally against his nature).
I have no idea what caused it, and so suddenly. He'd been fine prior to this. His back legs had also suddenly become paralysed, and had no feeling in them when pinched.
I could only guess he'd had a fall and bruised his spine. This can cause temporary paralysis in rats, but the feeling returns once the bruising goes down, so painkillers and rest, perhaps a steroid, is all that can be done.
I gave him his pain meds, gave him a lovely soft bed in a hospital cage and spoon fed him as he couldn't move. He ate well, drank well, and once he'd found a comfortable position, he was quite calm and peaceful. A rat that eats that enthusiastically isn't on death's door.
I got up super early to book him a vet appointment first thing, but he'd passed away over night.
No-one knows what was wrong. He didn't act like anything more than a trauma to his back had occured, nothing life threatening, and all the research I did about it suggested it would improve in a few days.
He was from the same rescue as Hoffman, who I lost a short while ago.
I miss him so much. He was my very special boy.
Its my birthday tomorrow. Its not going to be a good one.
On hybrids
Posted 14 years agoIm working a series of characters that are hybrids of two or three different species.
Now, this is not unusual; hybrids are common in furry.
Its a fairly easy way of creating a character that is interesting and, dare I even say it, unique. There are so many species, so many combinations, so many manifestations of those combinations that you're more likely to come up with something no-one else has done by merging different species.
But in my research into hybrids, I've come across a problem that seems fairly common in furry: people don't know how to mix two species plausibly.
What I see a lot of is a mix of two species that is just the 'main' species, with a few tacked on features of the other.
For example, lets take a wolf x deer, as an example. What I see most is a normal wolf, but with a pair of antlers stuck on, maybe some deer markings.
But nothing has changed in its bone structure, its coat type, its dentition and so on.
People seem to take two species, take a chunk of features from one, a chunk of features from the other, and space them out evenly on the animal.
No NEW features are created, born from both parents, its always either one or the other.
Now, as we don't have real hybrids to look at, lets look at a species that features individuals who vary widely in bone structure and anatomy, but are often crossed: dogs.
If you take a pug and a greyhound and cross them, you don't just get a standard greyhound with pug markings and a shorter curled tail; the entire BONE structure changes. Everything about the animal becomes different. The two breeds mash together, til what you have is recognisable as neither one nor the other.
The skull doesn't become either a pugs skull OR a greyhound's skull; it becomes a mixture of both, the same as neither one of its parents, but a new shape.
And this is my issue.
A wolf x deer wouldn't have a normal wolf's skull just with antlers. It would have a skull that was neither really wolf nor deer, it'd be a unique melting of both.
It seems when people make these hybrids, they just choose the features that are most appealing from each, and stuff them together til the creature is one species with bits hacked off another and glued on.
Someone might give their wolf x deer some hooves. But always neat, perfect deer hooves, like they've been chopped right off the deer and stitched on the wolf. That, in all likelyhood, wouldn't happen. It would be more likely to be an odd mixture of hoof and paw, something more 'deformed'.
I understand people want their characters to look cute or neat or not to stretch people's minds too much, but it kinda bugs me.
With a cross of two differently shaped animals, you don't get to choose what bits come from which side; nature will just mash them together and you get what you get.
In reality, a hybrid furry would be classed as deformed. They wouldn't have neat perfect paws and normal shaped skulls; they'd be odd looking. You possibly wouldn't even be able to look at them and tell exactly what species went into their make-up, like you sometimes can't tell with a mongrel dog what its parents were.
Im creating a shark x big cat (won't say which yet) and myself fell into the trap of doing the cat template and adding shark bits on it.
But it just seemed so lazy and unlikely that you'd have this cool looking 50/50 animal with distinct features of both; you'd be more likely to get something with a deformed half shark/half cat skull shape. The very BONES wouldn't be one or the other, it would be like someone smashed them together into one, rather than being very distinctly one species or the other.
Something NEW would be created that wasn't like either of the species that went into creating it.
I know that you are allowed to take liberties with art, and it doesn't have to be realistic. But I think that if people are trying to create something really unique with a hybrid, they would be more likely to come up with something genuinely individual if they didn't just draw a bog standard cat/wolf/horse/whatever and glue bits from other species into it.
Perhaps its just that people are afraid of mutations or of 'ugly' characters. A cat with horns is much cuter than a cat/bull crossbreed with a freaky cat/bovine skull shape.
But its something I see a lot and wonder if people just don't realise that this isn't how a hybrid would work. It doesn't work like that in any other species. Cross two of anything and you get a blend of both together, not a distinct set of features from one and a distinct set of features from the other.
Now, this is not unusual; hybrids are common in furry.
Its a fairly easy way of creating a character that is interesting and, dare I even say it, unique. There are so many species, so many combinations, so many manifestations of those combinations that you're more likely to come up with something no-one else has done by merging different species.
But in my research into hybrids, I've come across a problem that seems fairly common in furry: people don't know how to mix two species plausibly.
What I see a lot of is a mix of two species that is just the 'main' species, with a few tacked on features of the other.
For example, lets take a wolf x deer, as an example. What I see most is a normal wolf, but with a pair of antlers stuck on, maybe some deer markings.
But nothing has changed in its bone structure, its coat type, its dentition and so on.
People seem to take two species, take a chunk of features from one, a chunk of features from the other, and space them out evenly on the animal.
No NEW features are created, born from both parents, its always either one or the other.
Now, as we don't have real hybrids to look at, lets look at a species that features individuals who vary widely in bone structure and anatomy, but are often crossed: dogs.
If you take a pug and a greyhound and cross them, you don't just get a standard greyhound with pug markings and a shorter curled tail; the entire BONE structure changes. Everything about the animal becomes different. The two breeds mash together, til what you have is recognisable as neither one nor the other.
The skull doesn't become either a pugs skull OR a greyhound's skull; it becomes a mixture of both, the same as neither one of its parents, but a new shape.
And this is my issue.
A wolf x deer wouldn't have a normal wolf's skull just with antlers. It would have a skull that was neither really wolf nor deer, it'd be a unique melting of both.
It seems when people make these hybrids, they just choose the features that are most appealing from each, and stuff them together til the creature is one species with bits hacked off another and glued on.
Someone might give their wolf x deer some hooves. But always neat, perfect deer hooves, like they've been chopped right off the deer and stitched on the wolf. That, in all likelyhood, wouldn't happen. It would be more likely to be an odd mixture of hoof and paw, something more 'deformed'.
I understand people want their characters to look cute or neat or not to stretch people's minds too much, but it kinda bugs me.
With a cross of two differently shaped animals, you don't get to choose what bits come from which side; nature will just mash them together and you get what you get.
In reality, a hybrid furry would be classed as deformed. They wouldn't have neat perfect paws and normal shaped skulls; they'd be odd looking. You possibly wouldn't even be able to look at them and tell exactly what species went into their make-up, like you sometimes can't tell with a mongrel dog what its parents were.
Im creating a shark x big cat (won't say which yet) and myself fell into the trap of doing the cat template and adding shark bits on it.
But it just seemed so lazy and unlikely that you'd have this cool looking 50/50 animal with distinct features of both; you'd be more likely to get something with a deformed half shark/half cat skull shape. The very BONES wouldn't be one or the other, it would be like someone smashed them together into one, rather than being very distinctly one species or the other.
Something NEW would be created that wasn't like either of the species that went into creating it.
I know that you are allowed to take liberties with art, and it doesn't have to be realistic. But I think that if people are trying to create something really unique with a hybrid, they would be more likely to come up with something genuinely individual if they didn't just draw a bog standard cat/wolf/horse/whatever and glue bits from other species into it.
Perhaps its just that people are afraid of mutations or of 'ugly' characters. A cat with horns is much cuter than a cat/bull crossbreed with a freaky cat/bovine skull shape.
But its something I see a lot and wonder if people just don't realise that this isn't how a hybrid would work. It doesn't work like that in any other species. Cross two of anything and you get a blend of both together, not a distinct set of features from one and a distinct set of features from the other.
rattified
Posted 14 years agoMay open quicky commissions in a week or two to make some quick dosh.
Thinking of doing a 'your character as a rat' thing. Single character digital, shaded, simple or no background, can have an accessory with them (piece of food, toy, etc), £15.
Basically, as it says on the tin, I will draw your character as a rat. Doesn't matter what species your character is, what colour, what adornments, it can all be transferred to a rat.
I don't mean taking your character and making it into an existing rat variety, I mean doing a rat version of your character, whatever colour it may be.
Wouldn't be for a week or two as I have a list to still plough through, but don't know if anyone would be interested in a few weeks?
Thinking of doing a 'your character as a rat' thing. Single character digital, shaded, simple or no background, can have an accessory with them (piece of food, toy, etc), £15.
Basically, as it says on the tin, I will draw your character as a rat. Doesn't matter what species your character is, what colour, what adornments, it can all be transferred to a rat.
I don't mean taking your character and making it into an existing rat variety, I mean doing a rat version of your character, whatever colour it may be.
Wouldn't be for a week or two as I have a list to still plough through, but don't know if anyone would be interested in a few weeks?
Another snake owner making the decent ones look bad....
Posted 14 years agoToday, I saw an ad on a semi-local free ad site of someone saying they urgently (their words) needed to get rid of lots of rats as their rats kept over-breeding and they had way too many.
I mailed them suggesting they split up their males and females to prevent this, if they didn't want any more.
They messaged me back saying the rats would 'always be used' they were just 'trying to make some money off them' and they didn't want or ask for my advice so to go away.
I told them fine, but asked them to acknowledge that the reason I had an issue with it was because it was people breeding indiscriminately that meant I had to have 50 rats here, and had to deal with the abuse and neglect of rats in general.
I did say they were vile people, maybe I shouldn't have, but they were very rude in their intial response to me simply suggesting they split the genders (believe it or not, this doesn't always occur to people, nor do they know how to do it)
I saw the whole thing getting heated if allowed to go on, so I blocked them. As my experiences here recently showed me, blocking was probably for the best.
Half an hour later, I receive a phone call (almost 10pm on a saturday night now, BTW) The number was a private number, which sometimes happens with legitimate rescue calls, so I answered.
It was someone (guess who? lol) pretending (badly) to be a genuine interested party. They asked if I had any for re-homing and how they went about adopting.
I explained it briefly, already knowing who this was, and they then turned and got nasty with me.
They began saying that they were 'sitting laughing about my message'. I told them they needed to see it from my point of view, and that it was because of people over-breeding that rescues like myself had to do the work we do. He said they bred for snake food.
I asked whether they breed purely for their own snakes or sell to other snake owners too.
They said they sell live rats to other owners too.
I asked them if they were aware that live feeding was illegal.
They said they were. I asked them if they check that the owner is not going to feed the rat live. They said it isn't their responsibility to do so; once the rat left them, its not their problem.
I asked if he could see my point, and that him doing this was putting rats into really bad situations where they would either be fed live, or killed first by someone utterly unequipped to do so humanely.
I told him about Picard and said he was a classic example of how these rats end up: either fed live, or starved and neglected by people who see them as no more than food.
He asked me what my problem was. I told him HE was my problem.
He then said 'you can give out criticism but can't take it!'
I asked what, exactly, I had to be criticised for since I was doing nothing wrong, just clearing up the mess of the people who ARE.
He said 'I'll happily take your rats off your hands if you have too many, even drive and get them!' and I told him I would never re-home to someone like him, and have a policy about not re-homing to owners of large snakes. And that no, he would never, ever have a rat off me.
He bitched about how I shouldn't have blocked him. I told him I blocked him because I didn't want a long drawn out argument and we'd both had our say, time to move on.
He once again said he'd been 'laughing' at my message.
Then he hung up on me.
Now, I don't know about you, but if someone's message to me amuses me so much and makes me laugh, I don't feel the need to ring them up late on saturday night and bitch them out.
Especially if they'd blocked me, suggesting everyone should just move on.
Seems, to me, more like someone who get extremely butt-hurt over the truth and was frustrated they couldn't get the last word.
Still, always nice to know when you've upset a twat.
Jon is worried now that someone is gonna come after me.
To be honest, he sounded like a complete geek. Im not worried.
I mailed them suggesting they split up their males and females to prevent this, if they didn't want any more.
They messaged me back saying the rats would 'always be used' they were just 'trying to make some money off them' and they didn't want or ask for my advice so to go away.
I told them fine, but asked them to acknowledge that the reason I had an issue with it was because it was people breeding indiscriminately that meant I had to have 50 rats here, and had to deal with the abuse and neglect of rats in general.
I did say they were vile people, maybe I shouldn't have, but they were very rude in their intial response to me simply suggesting they split the genders (believe it or not, this doesn't always occur to people, nor do they know how to do it)
I saw the whole thing getting heated if allowed to go on, so I blocked them. As my experiences here recently showed me, blocking was probably for the best.
Half an hour later, I receive a phone call (almost 10pm on a saturday night now, BTW) The number was a private number, which sometimes happens with legitimate rescue calls, so I answered.
It was someone (guess who? lol) pretending (badly) to be a genuine interested party. They asked if I had any for re-homing and how they went about adopting.
I explained it briefly, already knowing who this was, and they then turned and got nasty with me.
They began saying that they were 'sitting laughing about my message'. I told them they needed to see it from my point of view, and that it was because of people over-breeding that rescues like myself had to do the work we do. He said they bred for snake food.
I asked whether they breed purely for their own snakes or sell to other snake owners too.
They said they sell live rats to other owners too.
I asked them if they were aware that live feeding was illegal.
They said they were. I asked them if they check that the owner is not going to feed the rat live. They said it isn't their responsibility to do so; once the rat left them, its not their problem.
I asked if he could see my point, and that him doing this was putting rats into really bad situations where they would either be fed live, or killed first by someone utterly unequipped to do so humanely.
I told him about Picard and said he was a classic example of how these rats end up: either fed live, or starved and neglected by people who see them as no more than food.
He asked me what my problem was. I told him HE was my problem.
He then said 'you can give out criticism but can't take it!'
I asked what, exactly, I had to be criticised for since I was doing nothing wrong, just clearing up the mess of the people who ARE.
He said 'I'll happily take your rats off your hands if you have too many, even drive and get them!' and I told him I would never re-home to someone like him, and have a policy about not re-homing to owners of large snakes. And that no, he would never, ever have a rat off me.
He bitched about how I shouldn't have blocked him. I told him I blocked him because I didn't want a long drawn out argument and we'd both had our say, time to move on.
He once again said he'd been 'laughing' at my message.
Then he hung up on me.
Now, I don't know about you, but if someone's message to me amuses me so much and makes me laugh, I don't feel the need to ring them up late on saturday night and bitch them out.
Especially if they'd blocked me, suggesting everyone should just move on.
Seems, to me, more like someone who get extremely butt-hurt over the truth and was frustrated they couldn't get the last word.
Still, always nice to know when you've upset a twat.
Jon is worried now that someone is gonna come after me.
To be honest, he sounded like a complete geek. Im not worried.
Hooray for Picard!
Posted 14 years agoPicard weighed 100 grams last night, almost doubled his weight in 9 days!
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=fe79dc3207
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=fe79dc3207
Please be patient
Posted 14 years agoI know Im sometimes late in replying to messages, or performing duties. It doesn't mean I don't care or I'm ignoring you; it just means Im busy.
I own my own home which doesn't clean itself, I have two jobs (one during the day, one in the evening), I have 50 rats that need hours of daily cleaning and handling, I have two ferrets who need time and walking, I have 2 cats who need cleaning up after, I have commissions to work on, and a boyfriend to give time to.
I also tend to have a handful of emails wanting rat advice each time I log on, which take a lot of my time up replying to.
Sometimes, internet isn't my priority. I have a busy life.
Some days I only get an hour or so online in the course of a day, if that.
I own my own home which doesn't clean itself, I have two jobs (one during the day, one in the evening), I have 50 rats that need hours of daily cleaning and handling, I have two ferrets who need time and walking, I have 2 cats who need cleaning up after, I have commissions to work on, and a boyfriend to give time to.
I also tend to have a handful of emails wanting rat advice each time I log on, which take a lot of my time up replying to.
Sometimes, internet isn't my priority. I have a busy life.
Some days I only get an hour or so online in the course of a day, if that.
New girl
Posted 14 years agoJon and I made the decision to take on a new girl yesterday.
This girl had been in the adoption centre of a local pet shop for a while, with the message posted beside her that she had bad teeth and needed specialist care. I walked on by for a few weeks; I didn't really intend to take on any more rats.
For those who don't have an adoption centre system in their pet shops, its basically a little corner of the shop where animals that either haven't sold in time, or have been brought in by members of the public, are put and offered for 'adoption' rather than sale. You don't buy them, you give a small donation which goes to charity.
But we went in yesterday and I said to Jon 'its a shame we can't take her'.
And he said 'do you think anyone else in this town is going to be prepared to deal with a rat that has such a major health problem?'
I said no.
He said 'well thats your answer: get her'.
So we asked staff what exactly was wrong with her. They claimed she'd come in with some other rats, but was failing to gain weight and ended up very thin.
They took her to the vet who took one look at her teeth and noticed they were misaligned. He apparently clipped them, and the top set fell out. This can sometimes happen.
So the shop were adopting her out telling everyone she had only one set of teeth and would need regular dental work and soft foods.
I took her on, and the shop told me they'd had her since June, and were worried no-one else would want her and that if she hadn't gone soon, she'd have to go to 'a rescue centre'. As Im the only rescue centre around here who would take on a rat like that, I kinda knew that meant 'put to sleep'.
We got her home and I checked her teeth. Well, she did have both sets, but they were both fucked up to the max. A rat's teeth should meet nicely together, evenly. Her top teeth grow off to one side, and the bottom grow to the other, like the bill of a cross bill bird.
Its a myth that rats have to eat hard food to keep their teeth down. Rats should be able to keep their teeth down well enough just by grinding them against one another....IF they meet properly.
When they don't, over-growing occurs.
Her bottom teeth were so long they were digging into her upper cheek.
Obviously, the shop had been unaware that rat's teeth GROW BACK. They'd seen them fall out and assumed that was that, and obviously hadn't checked since or they'd have seen they'd grown back.
Rats can knock sets of teeth back and have them return within days. You have to actually remove or damage the root for them to stop growing. Even tooth removals at the vet's sometimes fail because the teeth grow back.
So, she was less than a day off having her cheek pierced by these teeth.
I rushed her to my vet, and had them clipped.
At the time, I knew burring to be the preferred method, but clipping is also done often so I just went with that, for the sake of making her comfortable quickly (burring usually requires gas).
My vet gave me options: I can either continue clipping/burring them every 1-2 weeks, or have both sets of incisors removed.
Incisor removal in rats is not a routine op, nor is it simple. Its long, painful and risky.
Rats teeth go so far into their jaw that they risk broken jaws from the op. There is also the risk of blood loss as the teeth bleed a lot, and if every single piece of root isn't removed properly, the teeth will grow back.
And they can grow back even worse if the root is simply damaged and not properly removed.
My vet has done this op many times on rabbits, but they are obviously a lot bigger and you have less margin for error.
At the moment, Im not keen on that op for her. I think it is an op that should only be attempted if the clipping/burring is not an option. As it is, she is a fair weight now, in good condition and seems to be able to eat well enough now she's been clipped.
I probably won't go for the op unless things change.
Im glad I got her though, since another day would have seen her teeth puncture her cheek and that opens it up for infection and abscess.
So, this is Shadowrat Silk Spectre:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=932618042e
She is a lovely little girl and Im glad I could give her a chance at life.
Teeth problems are very off putting, and most people want nothing to do with them, because they're on-going. Spectre will need treatment probably every 2 weeks, perhaps more, depending on how quickly her teeth grow. The average is about 1mm a day.
A clip of her teeth costs me £13, but burring will probably cost more as it involves gas.
She will be a life-long commitment. But Im happy to be the one to take it on.
This girl had been in the adoption centre of a local pet shop for a while, with the message posted beside her that she had bad teeth and needed specialist care. I walked on by for a few weeks; I didn't really intend to take on any more rats.
For those who don't have an adoption centre system in their pet shops, its basically a little corner of the shop where animals that either haven't sold in time, or have been brought in by members of the public, are put and offered for 'adoption' rather than sale. You don't buy them, you give a small donation which goes to charity.
But we went in yesterday and I said to Jon 'its a shame we can't take her'.
And he said 'do you think anyone else in this town is going to be prepared to deal with a rat that has such a major health problem?'
I said no.
He said 'well thats your answer: get her'.
So we asked staff what exactly was wrong with her. They claimed she'd come in with some other rats, but was failing to gain weight and ended up very thin.
They took her to the vet who took one look at her teeth and noticed they were misaligned. He apparently clipped them, and the top set fell out. This can sometimes happen.
So the shop were adopting her out telling everyone she had only one set of teeth and would need regular dental work and soft foods.
I took her on, and the shop told me they'd had her since June, and were worried no-one else would want her and that if she hadn't gone soon, she'd have to go to 'a rescue centre'. As Im the only rescue centre around here who would take on a rat like that, I kinda knew that meant 'put to sleep'.
We got her home and I checked her teeth. Well, she did have both sets, but they were both fucked up to the max. A rat's teeth should meet nicely together, evenly. Her top teeth grow off to one side, and the bottom grow to the other, like the bill of a cross bill bird.
Its a myth that rats have to eat hard food to keep their teeth down. Rats should be able to keep their teeth down well enough just by grinding them against one another....IF they meet properly.
When they don't, over-growing occurs.
Her bottom teeth were so long they were digging into her upper cheek.
Obviously, the shop had been unaware that rat's teeth GROW BACK. They'd seen them fall out and assumed that was that, and obviously hadn't checked since or they'd have seen they'd grown back.
Rats can knock sets of teeth back and have them return within days. You have to actually remove or damage the root for them to stop growing. Even tooth removals at the vet's sometimes fail because the teeth grow back.
So, she was less than a day off having her cheek pierced by these teeth.
I rushed her to my vet, and had them clipped.
At the time, I knew burring to be the preferred method, but clipping is also done often so I just went with that, for the sake of making her comfortable quickly (burring usually requires gas).
My vet gave me options: I can either continue clipping/burring them every 1-2 weeks, or have both sets of incisors removed.
Incisor removal in rats is not a routine op, nor is it simple. Its long, painful and risky.
Rats teeth go so far into their jaw that they risk broken jaws from the op. There is also the risk of blood loss as the teeth bleed a lot, and if every single piece of root isn't removed properly, the teeth will grow back.
And they can grow back even worse if the root is simply damaged and not properly removed.
My vet has done this op many times on rabbits, but they are obviously a lot bigger and you have less margin for error.
At the moment, Im not keen on that op for her. I think it is an op that should only be attempted if the clipping/burring is not an option. As it is, she is a fair weight now, in good condition and seems to be able to eat well enough now she's been clipped.
I probably won't go for the op unless things change.
Im glad I got her though, since another day would have seen her teeth puncture her cheek and that opens it up for infection and abscess.
So, this is Shadowrat Silk Spectre:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/.....p;l=932618042e
She is a lovely little girl and Im glad I could give her a chance at life.
Teeth problems are very off putting, and most people want nothing to do with them, because they're on-going. Spectre will need treatment probably every 2 weeks, perhaps more, depending on how quickly her teeth grow. The average is about 1mm a day.
A clip of her teeth costs me £13, but burring will probably cost more as it involves gas.
She will be a life-long commitment. But Im happy to be the one to take it on.
