“Think you can’t write women? Don’t. Write people and make them women.” - Lauren Faust
I think that quote by Faust goes a long way in explaining why Sally and many other of the female characters in the Archie Sonic comic have managed to survive the passage of time as such strong characters, while also explaining why so much controversy surrounds them as well.
It was quite apparent that Sally was created as a character first, with the personality, dress style, and role in the comic, and then assigned a gender as the final action. The same could be said about Bunnie, Lara-Su and Julie-Su. They might be female characters, but due to them being Mobians, they were allowed to be as equal to the guys as possible, and their gender was never used to limit them in any way. Even at points in the comic where Max was being a sexist prick, he was portrayed as completely in the wrong and not relateable at all.
Unfortunately, this is no longer the case as it's been decreed that above all else, Sally and every other female in the comic is nothing more then a girl, and every other facet of her character can only follow after that. People claim that Sonic isn't naked cause he's covered in fur and you'd think Sally falls under the same category, but since she's just a girl now, she has to follow the gender limitations that are forced on her now. Essentially, the gender equality that's been in the comic for 20 long years is being torn away, and the genders are being forced to be separated, and for no real good reason.
The most common complaint people have is that even though she's covered in fur she has the shape of a female...but my question is why does that matter? She's covered in fur so it's like she's wearing a full body leotard and you can't see any actual anatomy, so all you can see is her chest. Are people saying a woman's chest is something to be ashamed of? And why is it okay for male characters to have female crotches (or have their anatomy simply inside of them when they stand up), yet females get discriminated against and are considered not proper to be unclothed? It should really be as simple as everyone wears clothes or clothing is completely optional as it's been for 20 years, so why does it have to become so complicated now? If Sally is considered naked without clothes, then so is Sonic.
I'd also like to remind people that never once in the 20 years was Sally's state of dress ever brought up, and never once has she ever tried to seduce anybody with her body or anything else. On the other hand, let me point to Rouge the Bat, who for some reason was designed with no fur on her body so that she actually is naked without clothing and actually is showing off a ton of cleavage in her costume. Not only that, but she has repeatedly seduced male characters in the franchises and was even given a "charm" move that allowed her to steal from people easier.
Are you honestly telling me that Sally is considered offensive while this anthro Fujiko is running around and actually using her body and gender to get what she wants? Sure she's tamed down a bit and been turned into an "other" character that follows Shadow around, but that still doesn't take away the fact that Rouge is a fanservice character while Sally from the start was nothing more then a purely equal character that didn't even take gender into the equation with who she is and what she does. Go beyond simply looking at the designs of these characters and look at how they actually act and behave, in order to make your opinions on them.
Anyway, just remember that as censorship grows more and more ridiculous and what's considered "proper" and "acceptable" shrinks on a regular basis, you don't have to blindly accept these views as reality and are free to make your own choices on these matters.
Sure this is all revolving around a kids franchise, but people mold their reality around what they learn as kids, so be sure to keep that in mind and to make sure that what you believe as your gut feeling actually makes sense, and isn't just a blind and irrational thought that was carved in your youth that you haven't thought deeply about since.
I think that quote by Faust goes a long way in explaining why Sally and many other of the female characters in the Archie Sonic comic have managed to survive the passage of time as such strong characters, while also explaining why so much controversy surrounds them as well.
It was quite apparent that Sally was created as a character first, with the personality, dress style, and role in the comic, and then assigned a gender as the final action. The same could be said about Bunnie, Lara-Su and Julie-Su. They might be female characters, but due to them being Mobians, they were allowed to be as equal to the guys as possible, and their gender was never used to limit them in any way. Even at points in the comic where Max was being a sexist prick, he was portrayed as completely in the wrong and not relateable at all.
Unfortunately, this is no longer the case as it's been decreed that above all else, Sally and every other female in the comic is nothing more then a girl, and every other facet of her character can only follow after that. People claim that Sonic isn't naked cause he's covered in fur and you'd think Sally falls under the same category, but since she's just a girl now, she has to follow the gender limitations that are forced on her now. Essentially, the gender equality that's been in the comic for 20 long years is being torn away, and the genders are being forced to be separated, and for no real good reason.
The most common complaint people have is that even though she's covered in fur she has the shape of a female...but my question is why does that matter? She's covered in fur so it's like she's wearing a full body leotard and you can't see any actual anatomy, so all you can see is her chest. Are people saying a woman's chest is something to be ashamed of? And why is it okay for male characters to have female crotches (or have their anatomy simply inside of them when they stand up), yet females get discriminated against and are considered not proper to be unclothed? It should really be as simple as everyone wears clothes or clothing is completely optional as it's been for 20 years, so why does it have to become so complicated now? If Sally is considered naked without clothes, then so is Sonic.
I'd also like to remind people that never once in the 20 years was Sally's state of dress ever brought up, and never once has she ever tried to seduce anybody with her body or anything else. On the other hand, let me point to Rouge the Bat, who for some reason was designed with no fur on her body so that she actually is naked without clothing and actually is showing off a ton of cleavage in her costume. Not only that, but she has repeatedly seduced male characters in the franchises and was even given a "charm" move that allowed her to steal from people easier.
Are you honestly telling me that Sally is considered offensive while this anthro Fujiko is running around and actually using her body and gender to get what she wants? Sure she's tamed down a bit and been turned into an "other" character that follows Shadow around, but that still doesn't take away the fact that Rouge is a fanservice character while Sally from the start was nothing more then a purely equal character that didn't even take gender into the equation with who she is and what she does. Go beyond simply looking at the designs of these characters and look at how they actually act and behave, in order to make your opinions on them.
Anyway, just remember that as censorship grows more and more ridiculous and what's considered "proper" and "acceptable" shrinks on a regular basis, you don't have to blindly accept these views as reality and are free to make your own choices on these matters.
Sure this is all revolving around a kids franchise, but people mold their reality around what they learn as kids, so be sure to keep that in mind and to make sure that what you believe as your gut feeling actually makes sense, and isn't just a blind and irrational thought that was carved in your youth that you haven't thought deeply about since.
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dude or dudette why are u arguing or getting ticked off about that sure rouge was a fanservice gal but its characters like her that add tons of humor to the series and sally sure she's not like rouge at all but in the comics based on all the persona forms on her she has been playing the feild between sonic and khan alot but it didnt take away from her overall character and general presona
The problem is apparently those in charge think Rouge is perfectly fine to have unchanged personality and all, yet feel Sally has to be fully clothed in order to be considered "acceptable".
Plus it's completely different to want to create a fanservice character and to have there rest follow from there, and to create a character first, make them a gender, and then have them date after that. It's the very base of the character that differs here. You can be gender equal yet still have dating.
Plus it's completely different to want to create a fanservice character and to have there rest follow from there, and to create a character first, make them a gender, and then have them date after that. It's the very base of the character that differs here. You can be gender equal yet still have dating.
i know but u have to think compared to sally backthen she was pretty acceptable back then as much as yakko with no shirt wakko with no pants and dot with no shirt. sally was like ur garden variety carebear with alot of attitude but due to the changing times and some things being more censored then others i find that sally being fully clothed is a change of pace compared to her previous outfit not that its a bad thing for her former outfit
Yeah but people are worrying about all the wrong things, and there's a point when censorship it just not needed. Sally was a pure equal character, where her gender was never really even brought up except for dating, beyond that she was just a person, not just reduced to a girl.
I'm a lot more interested in the personality and their actions then how they look, ESPECIALLY in a comic where the vast majority of male characters walk around naked. After 20 years, it just feels like extreme discrimination to force her to cover up yet not care about the guys.
I'm a lot more interested in the personality and their actions then how they look, ESPECIALLY in a comic where the vast majority of male characters walk around naked. After 20 years, it just feels like extreme discrimination to force her to cover up yet not care about the guys.
its how the japanese are dude they pride the men alot more then they do the women case and point dbz where the show has mostly guys in it but very little women in it and in this case they pride on the men looking anyway they like where as characters like rouge or sally show very little or not at all
This is an American comic, and isn't distributed regularly outside unless ordered individually and is only in English.
It would really suck if another Other-M was pulled (the Samus one) and after so many years of a strong female presence, that prideful attitude destroyed the strong presence here as well.
It would really suck if another Other-M was pulled (the Samus one) and after so many years of a strong female presence, that prideful attitude destroyed the strong presence here as well.
Wonder what made them start attacking the comic after 20 years of it managing to almost do better then the games themselves. You'd think SEGA would have wanted to know why the comic was just one or two bad game releases from outliving the entire SEGA Sonic gaming franchise, instead of deciding to squash all of its originality and uniqueness in order to conform it to their out-dated game franchise.
Then again, I guess after losing billions of yen, SEGA is desperate to pull in money from any outlet they can, including a comic they used to want to have very little part in for so many years.
Then again, I guess after losing billions of yen, SEGA is desperate to pull in money from any outlet they can, including a comic they used to want to have very little part in for so many years.
Spyro? The Skylanders insanely popular and profitable video game and toy series? lol
As for Sonic, here's the thing. The games might have sucked for years to the point of the fans wanting them to retire Sonic for good, but the comic itself has been going strong for 20 years. It wasn't losing any steam and still stands as the ONLY Sonic franchise outside of the games to last for over roughly 3 years before getting cancelled or ended early. There's no way the comic would have gone the way of Spyro due to how original and unique it was and SEGA should has realized that.
After all, how else could the comic last for 20 years and keep going strong, without ANY help from SEGA, unless it was a very well created comic with good characters and a world to explore?
As for Sonic, here's the thing. The games might have sucked for years to the point of the fans wanting them to retire Sonic for good, but the comic itself has been going strong for 20 years. It wasn't losing any steam and still stands as the ONLY Sonic franchise outside of the games to last for over roughly 3 years before getting cancelled or ended early. There's no way the comic would have gone the way of Spyro due to how original and unique it was and SEGA should has realized that.
After all, how else could the comic last for 20 years and keep going strong, without ANY help from SEGA, unless it was a very well created comic with good characters and a world to explore?
while thats true there was a time before skylanders that spyro was almost forgotten and written off in a forgetable abyss and it may have dreaded to that point but for sonic sure some of his games havent been perfect but they showed signs of progress if u look at games unleashed, colors and generations each of those showed sonic's game career returning from the dark ages from which it was. as for the comics i agree that they expand on sonic's world of mobius and adds some depth to the characters then sega had done. but at the same time many of the originally of the comics have been inspired by other comic books or movies done by marvel or dc. which would explain a great deal of the depth and character developments of sega's characters although i do have one problem with the comics the non appearance of shade the echidna and the fact during the tail vs sonic fight i wished sonic would have talked with tails about his relationship with fiona and the whole tails busting his dad out of prison i wish sonic didnt have that ego when he told tails folks that he idolized him which is true and that he would get over whatever problem he had with him which made me feel like sonic was being an asshole and a betrayer to tails and his feelings i know they hugged it out and talked later but that still bugged the hell out of me.
Well yeah, there's a reason why many fans of the comic feel like Sonic has gotten to be too much of a jerk in the comic and hard to like at times, or that the stories could have been written a lot better.
However, those are story elements, and not the actual designs of the characters that gets brought into question there, which have managed to stand up against the passage of time for 20 years. The only reason why it's brought up now is because SEGA is desperate and wants to express it's power over the comic, while discriminating against females.
However, those are story elements, and not the actual designs of the characters that gets brought into question there, which have managed to stand up against the passage of time for 20 years. The only reason why it's brought up now is because SEGA is desperate and wants to express it's power over the comic, while discriminating against females.
Yet this is an American comic produced in America and has no ties to Japan besides a few video game character licenses.
You do realize an argument of "Look I know it's unfair and hypocritical to do this, but...." is a main reason why so much crap still happens in this world, right? -.- SEGA should have just played it smart and left their hands off of this franchise...
You do realize an argument of "Look I know it's unfair and hypocritical to do this, but...." is a main reason why so much crap still happens in this world, right? -.- SEGA should have just played it smart and left their hands off of this franchise...
I'd rather the characters simply die in heroic ways, then get mutated and have their personalities get destroyed, in the name of appeasing a vengeful corporation.
As for if the comic could survive without the SEGA cast...I could see it possibly happening, depending on how they try to pull it off.
As for if the comic could survive without the SEGA cast...I could see it possibly happening, depending on how they try to pull it off.
While I agree with what you say, Other M shouldn't have come as a surprise, you see cracks in her armored personality when after Rundus' death, when Ghor and Gandrayda die, absorbed by the shadow creature. She couldn't be unbothered forever, its not good storytelling if the main character is a Duke Nukem in every game.
Even if cracks are good, to suddenly freak out by just "seeing" Ridley again and then needing some guy to rescue her is still pretty bad story telling. It would have been a lot better if she freaked out by attacking it like a crazy person, not freezing up like a terrified bunny.
You know I never like Rouge characters design to begin with, she the only character in the Sega Sonic universe that had a shapely humanoid figure while other characters like Sonic and Knuckles had simply body structure, so I can see why Sega would want to inject fanservice to this series, but I don't understand why they constantly bother Archie Sonic comic. The girls there were never intended as fanservice but were written as well rounded characters first with ten time more depth and personality than that walking boob that is Rouge. Its a shame that Sega see fit to reduce characters like Sally and Bunnie to there gender roles, instead of taking a hint from them and letting the comic be.
Even if these were his orders, he's the one that chose the super depressing and character personality destroying story to bring it about, AND he's the one that's bashing the Freedom Fighters and calling them out-dated to brainwash readers into thinking this had to happen.
True, but he probably trying to save face with Sega so he can continue to say head writer. That why the sonic stories have become more like a Sonic game and less like Satam. Sega probably never attended the comic to last long and now that it have they feel the need to run it into the ground much like the game series.
Oh, all of the Freedom Fighters are getting a SEGA-rized look for the most part, and yeah it was probably a mandate by SEGA.
I don't see why they had to do it after 20 years of it never even being brought up in the comic though, or how they find Sally in need of change while Rouge is perfectly fine. Desperation and ego makes corporations do stupid things I guess...
Those changes don't mean that the story had to ruin their personalities to bring about the new looks, or that the writer of the comic had to bash these iconic characters publicly just to brainwash the fans into believing they were out-dated and in need of change though.
I don't see why they had to do it after 20 years of it never even being brought up in the comic though, or how they find Sally in need of change while Rouge is perfectly fine. Desperation and ego makes corporations do stupid things I guess...
Those changes don't mean that the story had to ruin their personalities to bring about the new looks, or that the writer of the comic had to bash these iconic characters publicly just to brainwash the fans into believing they were out-dated and in need of change though.
i dunno why either.
my best guess is that they want to bring sally into the games, but couldn't have done it without her being as nude as she was.
i'm gonna go deeper into the hole and say that they might want to make her a love interest for sonic. This might enrage some people, but in the games amy is never shown as a love interest. in sonic cd she's like half sonics age, SA1 she's a stalker who sonic brushes off, SA2 same thing, never played SH or shadow, in sonic 06 sonic is given a human love interest.
In the sonic rpg on the DS, amy creates a fake boyfriend to make sonic jealous, doesn't work, she isn't in colors, and in sonic generations he brushes her off again.
my best guess is that they want to bring sally into the games, but couldn't have done it without her being as nude as she was.
i'm gonna go deeper into the hole and say that they might want to make her a love interest for sonic. This might enrage some people, but in the games amy is never shown as a love interest. in sonic cd she's like half sonics age, SA1 she's a stalker who sonic brushes off, SA2 same thing, never played SH or shadow, in sonic 06 sonic is given a human love interest.
In the sonic rpg on the DS, amy creates a fake boyfriend to make sonic jealous, doesn't work, she isn't in colors, and in sonic generations he brushes her off again.
Actually they have quite a lot of fur on their bodies, Google it up and you'll see. It counts on which bat I guess, but a quick look shows quite fluffy bat bodies.
But do you really want the chars to be correct to how their animals are in real life? Google up an echidna and you'll find a few....interesting things about that species alone XP
But do you really want the chars to be correct to how their animals are in real life? Google up an echidna and you'll find a few....interesting things about that species alone XP
I love seeing your points made regarding sally and females in general its truly sad the say the series is going even some of the recent issues have just became bad writing at best and after scanning over the comments if sega really is to blame for all of this that hurts even more but I will say it was odd that lately the games were just made my SEGA not SONIC TEAM they just want to turn sonic into a tool like everything else , and gender roles is just part of it but I hate it what there doing to the comics, they really shouldn't have any say for the comics since thats a whole nother series, but liek you siad every female is getting watered down into gender roles rather then characters but sonic has become pretty bland himself.
and just to add insult to injury lately from a video I've watched the games industry seems to be "scared" of having female characters that exist outside of being just fan service
and just to add insult to injury lately from a video I've watched the games industry seems to be "scared" of having female characters that exist outside of being just fan service
Yap, SEGA plus the Penders lawsuit have really combined to hurt the comic badly lately...but the current writing of the comic for this horribly written 2 year arc to bring all the changes around is what's really destroying the franchise for me.
The latest reveals of 247 are especially bad and yeah...SEGA should have just left the American comic alone and kept their sexist ways to their own video games -.-
The latest reveals of 247 are especially bad and yeah...SEGA should have just left the American comic alone and kept their sexist ways to their own video games -.-
Heh that's one thing I understand, it was either do what SEGA wanted, or the comic closed down, simple as that. What I won't stand for though, is Flynn taking the mandates, and then throwing mud at the Freedom Fighters and giving them the middle finger to treat the fans like idiots and lie to make us think the changes are good and needed.
well given the state of things it would have been better for the comic to just close at least things would have still remained the way they were and in the end it would have hurt sega more not archive, theres the ones that shot themselves in the foot. Sonic has become more of a marketing tool then a loved franchise to SEGA now they don't even care about there characters. remember Shade one game, never heard of again and don't get me started on those storybook games. ( black knight, secret rings)
Yap, people constantly complain about gender inequalities in all aspects of life, yet few seem to realize that it all gets started when we're young due to kids shows teaching all kids that woman are inherently something to be ashamed of due to their bodies, especially in shows with animals that have the guys fully naked or dressed however they want while the females have to fully cover up.
It's certainly a subconscious type of brainwashing, but it's easy to see why people grow up thinking women have to be looked down upon given that kind of growing conditions.
It's certainly a subconscious type of brainwashing, but it's easy to see why people grow up thinking women have to be looked down upon given that kind of growing conditions.
Here are examples of how I grew up seeing women in their natural state. You could say I was okay with nudity, mainly in art and film. Unless my parents are around, I'm perfectly fine with nudity in film. When Jack was sketching Rose completely naked, looking back, thought it was a beautiful scene from Titanic[i/]. Same movie when Jack and Rise climb into the car and make love, also a beautiful scene. I admit I did open my eyes when my parents explicitly told me to cover my eyes. Same thing when I watched The Terminator as a kid. I saw Linda Hamilton's breast for a second.
My grandmother (rest her soul) was a collector of art in various mediums. One statute had been sadly retired to a closet in the garage, and one which still sits in the living room to my folks' place. The one in the closet is a small nude faux marble bust of Athena. The next one is a of a beautiful young woman sitting with full final nudity (just breasts, no genitals). My point is that I've grown up to appreciate women whether in art, and that statute has helped to a custom me to not be like “eww bewbs!" Typical kid. Seeing that same statute for literally all my childhood, I've taken a positive attitude rust women should be proud of their bodies.
My grandmother (rest her soul) was a collector of art in various mediums. One statute had been sadly retired to a closet in the garage, and one which still sits in the living room to my folks' place. The one in the closet is a small nude faux marble bust of Athena. The next one is a of a beautiful young woman sitting with full final nudity (just breasts, no genitals). My point is that I've grown up to appreciate women whether in art, and that statute has helped to a custom me to not be like “eww bewbs!" Typical kid. Seeing that same statute for literally all my childhood, I've taken a positive attitude rust women should be proud of their bodies.
It is, it really is a healthier attitude to adopt, even then when I was an impressionable kids growing up. Hate saying it but if it was up to my grandmother from my mother's side of the family, I would've grown up with very different values. I should be a man, collect my cojones and openly criticize values that are not in tune with the times. The same reason sexism and racism still exists. People treat women and different ethnicities differently, put then I've a different pedestal. Either intentionally or unintentionally, it's still wrong.
Thank you so much for this. :'3 This is so true. I wish I could hug you. X3
And that quote you had at the top of your description here can also be applied to something similar: "Think you can’t write homosexual love? Don’t. Write love and make it homosexual.”
Man, you should follow me on DeviantART almost, I talk about such things as gender roles and lots of other stuff there all the time. ^^'
And that quote you had at the top of your description here can also be applied to something similar: "Think you can’t write homosexual love? Don’t. Write love and make it homosexual.”
Man, you should follow me on DeviantART almost, I talk about such things as gender roles and lots of other stuff there all the time. ^^'
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