
The Rains of Castamere: Analyzing Violence in Pop Culture
Okay, look, this is gonna be huge, unbelivably deep spoilers for the "Rains of Castamere" but most likely, you already know the spoilers. But in case you want to avoid any DEEP analysis, just know I'm pretty furious and disgusted with that episode. I was getting INTO Game of Thrones in large part because of Robb Stark and because of Tyrion, mostly because those two are, despite some flaws, pretty admirable.
For Game of THRONES, anyway. But that's like saying Darth Vader is the most honorable man in the Empire. Technically true, but misleading.
Moving on.
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......I've...spoken before about how I really...REALLY...do not like to needlessly kill of characters who are important, who are fan-favorites, who are well-liked and likable. I don't take ANY joy or find entertainment in the harm or death of children or women who are usually not good at defending themselves. And certainly...without a doubt...I do NOT...even REMOTELY consider...the deaths of...pregnant women...to be good television. Or storytelling.
I...
...they...
Y'know, the episode that got me into Game of Thrones was when Joffrey gets into a fight. The Butcher's Boy gets killed, I think, because of this fight that he and Joffrey's sister are in. Joffrey shows up. He's a little brat. Threatens the kid. His sister ain't having that. Neither is their dog.
THAT dog lives in the episode. But their big brave pet wolf? The pet wolf of Robb Stark? Ned has to kill the poor thing. It was very tragic and gripping. But y'know, as flinch worthy as that was, at least we didn't actually see the deed done. The camera panned up and away as Ned held the poor thing in his arms and readied his blade. It was very well done. Tragic but not tastelessly cruel. HARSH, but not...BEATING you with its harshness.
This latest episode felt like that. The same way what happened to Glenn back in Walking Dead 100 did. Only this time it involved a pregnant woman dying. Getting stabbed through the stomach.
And by the way? No. She did NOT die in the books. She isn't supposed to be there. Killing Rob was a harsh and surprising move by George R.R Martin, who wrote the series. And you could have legit disagreements on whether it was a good idea. In fact, as the actor who PLAYED Robb said in an interview, "You know, typically in "Game of Thrones," people who are honest and just and do things for the right reasons are the people who tend not to survive, and Robb's a great example of that."
Yeah. Which is kinda why I really freakin' hate watching Game of Thrones. Because the people who do right get the shaft again and again. Because George R.R Martin evidently hates people who are good and decent and, y'know, who act like knights in a MEDIEVAL SETTING.
But I COULDA forgiven Robb's death. I could have.
...killing...his pregnant wife...in front of him...
I...I cannot even begin to describe...in how many ways this is wrong. I cannot understand why ANYBODY would think this is "good television". They are arguing that the FATAL STABBING OF A PREGNANT WOMAN IN THE STOMACH IS AN ENTERTAINING AND GOOD TV.
To which I respond...
Are. You. High?! WHAT REALITY ARE YOU LIVING IN?!
You do not DO that! You DON'T! This is Lian Harper levels of absolute wrongness. This is Sophia from the Second Season of Walking Dead levels of wrong. You. DON'T. DO. THAT. SORT. OF. THING. You crossed the line, goddammit. You crossed the-
I SO wanna swear. I SO wanna...
I'm never watching the series again. Hell with it. I'll freakin' "Wikipedia" it. That way I don't have to watch pregnant women getting stabbed. Sure that'll do wonders for your ratings, Mr. Director. Take a long walk off a short pier.
And as somebody who HAS a casual familiarity with the books, what happens to Robb AFTER is even more disgusting. They do things with his body worse than what happened to Boromir-sorry, Ned. Which really hit me in the emotional crotch. Oh Ned...
You might be asking “why do you torture yourself” like this. Why keep reading stories that you know you won’t end up liking the ending of? If you know what’s going to happen, why read?
Well, it's partly because I continue to think that "It can't POSSIBLY get any worse. It has to get better", and also because I keep hearing "C'mon, it's really good, you just gotta tough it out". It's much like doing hiking up an incredibly tall mountain. It's agony to endure, but you keep pressing on, hoping that eventually you'll reach the top and it'll all feel like it's been worth it. You want to squeeze SOME enjoyment and happiness out of what you're going through, even though deep in your spirit you feel terrifying doubt that that's even possible.
I'm not TOO mad with Mr. Martin. I know how hard it is to write stuff such as that, to do that to characters. After a certain amount of time, they become...well, your children. Putting them in danger, letting them die or actually killing them off in an active fashion drives a stake into your heart. You feel like you're pulling the trigger yourself, or sticking the knife into them. It's a harsh note of agony that rips into you. Martin brings that up. But he also brings up another point in an interview he did: "They don’t want to get hit in the mouth with something horrible. And you read that certain kind of fiction where the guy will always get the girl and the good guys win and it reaffirms to you that life is fair. We all want that at times. There’s a certain vicarious release to that. So I’m not dismissive of people who want that. But that’s not the kind of fiction I write, in most cases. It’s certainly not what Ice and Fire is. It tries to be more realistic about what life is."
Which I would agree with...except it's a freakin' MEDIEVAL FANTASY SETTING. There are dragons. MAGIC. There's like FROST GIANTS, man. It was the same problem I had with people saying the Walking Dead was a "realistic" story. If it's realistic, how did everybody in the world somehow manage to get infected all at the same time through their blood stream when a supervirus isn't scientifically possible? It's a zombie apocalypse, just like the "Fire and Ice" novels are fantasy novels. Don't pull the "realism" card on me when there's dragons hanging on the shoulders of your characters, or prophecies and magical beings and the like in your world. That doesn't work. You should go with things that do apply, take the fantastical element and run as far with it as you can, and save the "realistic" elements for things like family relationships.
I also know what others might think. “There aren't many TV series willing to go the lengths that Game of Thrones does. It’s not shy of recognizing it has a grim nature!”
Yeah, because the fact we have so much violence, sex and we're all so desensitized to everything is a good and POSITIVE thing in our culture. "Oh, is this horrible school massacre gonna interrupt our new show, "Massacre", Fridays at Eight?" And worse still I heard the cop out "it's just a TV show" when I brought it up. That's like saying Romeo and Juliet is "just a book" or that 2001 a Space Odyssey is "just a movie". It is never "JUST" something. Everything has an impact on us. It MATTERS to us. If it doesn't connect and make us care and feel, then it isn't a good story. It becomes more than just a story, it becomes genuine ART. This latest episode felt less like art and more like something from an exploitation film, the same way Glenn's death did. I just finally could not take it anymore, the same way I reached my limit when Glenn died in the Walking Dead.
I brought this point up to a friend. His response was “At its best, Game of Thrones is a tragedy in the Shakespearean sense of the word. It doesn't shy away from ugly details, but it's also capable of genuine moments of human warmth, while exploring in what kind of insane world things like pregnant women getting stabbed (or children being fed to their mother in pies) can happen. And that is quite a rush."
Well, I get rushes from porn. Doesn't mean I want to get a subscription to Cinemax. Sexploitation films and the like are honest about what they are, they don't pretend to be anything else. Something like Game of Thrones tries to have it's cake and eat it too, which irked me and frustrated me more and more. But no, I hung in because, again, kept hoping for some satisfaction...and to see Joffrey die before Robb. THAT obviously didn't happen. Crap in a hat.
But to bring up the Shakespeare point... Shakespeare's tragedies, like George R.R Martin's work, ended bittersweetly, but the heroes were likable and relatable, our protagonists were people you wanted to see succeed who had noble intentions and tried to behave nobly. They had crap heaped on them, but they ended up taking the villains with them in SOME way. Game of Thrones is more like "F--k you, everybody likable you care for is gonna die horribly or get raped or violated in some way" the more shows I saw. With the exception of Tyrion and a few others.
My friend also said "You're playing Minority Warrior when you go on to say that you could have forgiven Robb's death alone." Yes, I said that was harsh, and besides, Robb DID die in the books. His wife didn't. What are they gonna do if Martin actually decides Robb's son is gonna play a role in the books? I almost wish he would just to say "Y'know, even I wouldn't stab a pregnant woman in the stomach". And this is the guy who half the villains in his stories are "Rape rape rape we love to rape"!
I wouldn't be cynical about this show, it’s audience and about the people that like it if not for the fact that I grew up with the far left view of history, the one that focuses entirely on the minority viewpoint, all Guns, Germs and Steel, and I've seen every permutation of the oppressed minority tale told and I've actually gotten not so much bored by it so much as thought "I GET it already, stop preaching to the choir". I’d never gotten the “lighter and softer” side of the story growing up. Perhaps that’s why I find an appeal to them right now.
Anyhow…episodes like “Rains of Castamere”…books that are essentially medieval versions of the Sopranos just aren’t my cup of tea. I have honestly tried to endure them and for a while there was a hint of brilliance there. But…the show has pushed me and pushed me and finally pushed too far. I cannot stand watching the show. Nor can I continue to stand idly by and hear people argue that having heroes that mutilate and kill are something we should agree with. It’s why I’m against the “Superior Spider-Man” books.
…and I could go on for HOURS about THAT series. But I won’t. I have other attempts to be thoughtful to get to work on, however flawed they and I may be. If you disagree…well, y’know, it’s your opinion. And I welcome it. Honestly, I’d like to hear what you see in the show. And if you find the violence or the acts within are appealing, I WOULD like to know why because I believe in discourse and debate. But please, let’s not have just a case of “you’re just retarded” and insults in all caps. It doesn’t do jack to elevate the discourse. Snark is a poor man’s version of wit and we are suffocating in it like we’re swimming in sewage.
For Game of THRONES, anyway. But that's like saying Darth Vader is the most honorable man in the Empire. Technically true, but misleading.
Moving on.
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
......I've...spoken before about how I really...REALLY...do not like to needlessly kill of characters who are important, who are fan-favorites, who are well-liked and likable. I don't take ANY joy or find entertainment in the harm or death of children or women who are usually not good at defending themselves. And certainly...without a doubt...I do NOT...even REMOTELY consider...the deaths of...pregnant women...to be good television. Or storytelling.
I...
...they...
Y'know, the episode that got me into Game of Thrones was when Joffrey gets into a fight. The Butcher's Boy gets killed, I think, because of this fight that he and Joffrey's sister are in. Joffrey shows up. He's a little brat. Threatens the kid. His sister ain't having that. Neither is their dog.
THAT dog lives in the episode. But their big brave pet wolf? The pet wolf of Robb Stark? Ned has to kill the poor thing. It was very tragic and gripping. But y'know, as flinch worthy as that was, at least we didn't actually see the deed done. The camera panned up and away as Ned held the poor thing in his arms and readied his blade. It was very well done. Tragic but not tastelessly cruel. HARSH, but not...BEATING you with its harshness.
This latest episode felt like that. The same way what happened to Glenn back in Walking Dead 100 did. Only this time it involved a pregnant woman dying. Getting stabbed through the stomach.
And by the way? No. She did NOT die in the books. She isn't supposed to be there. Killing Rob was a harsh and surprising move by George R.R Martin, who wrote the series. And you could have legit disagreements on whether it was a good idea. In fact, as the actor who PLAYED Robb said in an interview, "You know, typically in "Game of Thrones," people who are honest and just and do things for the right reasons are the people who tend not to survive, and Robb's a great example of that."
Yeah. Which is kinda why I really freakin' hate watching Game of Thrones. Because the people who do right get the shaft again and again. Because George R.R Martin evidently hates people who are good and decent and, y'know, who act like knights in a MEDIEVAL SETTING.
But I COULDA forgiven Robb's death. I could have.
...killing...his pregnant wife...in front of him...
I...I cannot even begin to describe...in how many ways this is wrong. I cannot understand why ANYBODY would think this is "good television". They are arguing that the FATAL STABBING OF A PREGNANT WOMAN IN THE STOMACH IS AN ENTERTAINING AND GOOD TV.
To which I respond...
Are. You. High?! WHAT REALITY ARE YOU LIVING IN?!
You do not DO that! You DON'T! This is Lian Harper levels of absolute wrongness. This is Sophia from the Second Season of Walking Dead levels of wrong. You. DON'T. DO. THAT. SORT. OF. THING. You crossed the line, goddammit. You crossed the-
I SO wanna swear. I SO wanna...
I'm never watching the series again. Hell with it. I'll freakin' "Wikipedia" it. That way I don't have to watch pregnant women getting stabbed. Sure that'll do wonders for your ratings, Mr. Director. Take a long walk off a short pier.
And as somebody who HAS a casual familiarity with the books, what happens to Robb AFTER is even more disgusting. They do things with his body worse than what happened to Boromir-sorry, Ned. Which really hit me in the emotional crotch. Oh Ned...
You might be asking “why do you torture yourself” like this. Why keep reading stories that you know you won’t end up liking the ending of? If you know what’s going to happen, why read?
Well, it's partly because I continue to think that "It can't POSSIBLY get any worse. It has to get better", and also because I keep hearing "C'mon, it's really good, you just gotta tough it out". It's much like doing hiking up an incredibly tall mountain. It's agony to endure, but you keep pressing on, hoping that eventually you'll reach the top and it'll all feel like it's been worth it. You want to squeeze SOME enjoyment and happiness out of what you're going through, even though deep in your spirit you feel terrifying doubt that that's even possible.
I'm not TOO mad with Mr. Martin. I know how hard it is to write stuff such as that, to do that to characters. After a certain amount of time, they become...well, your children. Putting them in danger, letting them die or actually killing them off in an active fashion drives a stake into your heart. You feel like you're pulling the trigger yourself, or sticking the knife into them. It's a harsh note of agony that rips into you. Martin brings that up. But he also brings up another point in an interview he did: "They don’t want to get hit in the mouth with something horrible. And you read that certain kind of fiction where the guy will always get the girl and the good guys win and it reaffirms to you that life is fair. We all want that at times. There’s a certain vicarious release to that. So I’m not dismissive of people who want that. But that’s not the kind of fiction I write, in most cases. It’s certainly not what Ice and Fire is. It tries to be more realistic about what life is."
Which I would agree with...except it's a freakin' MEDIEVAL FANTASY SETTING. There are dragons. MAGIC. There's like FROST GIANTS, man. It was the same problem I had with people saying the Walking Dead was a "realistic" story. If it's realistic, how did everybody in the world somehow manage to get infected all at the same time through their blood stream when a supervirus isn't scientifically possible? It's a zombie apocalypse, just like the "Fire and Ice" novels are fantasy novels. Don't pull the "realism" card on me when there's dragons hanging on the shoulders of your characters, or prophecies and magical beings and the like in your world. That doesn't work. You should go with things that do apply, take the fantastical element and run as far with it as you can, and save the "realistic" elements for things like family relationships.
I also know what others might think. “There aren't many TV series willing to go the lengths that Game of Thrones does. It’s not shy of recognizing it has a grim nature!”
Yeah, because the fact we have so much violence, sex and we're all so desensitized to everything is a good and POSITIVE thing in our culture. "Oh, is this horrible school massacre gonna interrupt our new show, "Massacre", Fridays at Eight?" And worse still I heard the cop out "it's just a TV show" when I brought it up. That's like saying Romeo and Juliet is "just a book" or that 2001 a Space Odyssey is "just a movie". It is never "JUST" something. Everything has an impact on us. It MATTERS to us. If it doesn't connect and make us care and feel, then it isn't a good story. It becomes more than just a story, it becomes genuine ART. This latest episode felt less like art and more like something from an exploitation film, the same way Glenn's death did. I just finally could not take it anymore, the same way I reached my limit when Glenn died in the Walking Dead.
I brought this point up to a friend. His response was “At its best, Game of Thrones is a tragedy in the Shakespearean sense of the word. It doesn't shy away from ugly details, but it's also capable of genuine moments of human warmth, while exploring in what kind of insane world things like pregnant women getting stabbed (or children being fed to their mother in pies) can happen. And that is quite a rush."
Well, I get rushes from porn. Doesn't mean I want to get a subscription to Cinemax. Sexploitation films and the like are honest about what they are, they don't pretend to be anything else. Something like Game of Thrones tries to have it's cake and eat it too, which irked me and frustrated me more and more. But no, I hung in because, again, kept hoping for some satisfaction...and to see Joffrey die before Robb. THAT obviously didn't happen. Crap in a hat.
But to bring up the Shakespeare point... Shakespeare's tragedies, like George R.R Martin's work, ended bittersweetly, but the heroes were likable and relatable, our protagonists were people you wanted to see succeed who had noble intentions and tried to behave nobly. They had crap heaped on them, but they ended up taking the villains with them in SOME way. Game of Thrones is more like "F--k you, everybody likable you care for is gonna die horribly or get raped or violated in some way" the more shows I saw. With the exception of Tyrion and a few others.
My friend also said "You're playing Minority Warrior when you go on to say that you could have forgiven Robb's death alone." Yes, I said that was harsh, and besides, Robb DID die in the books. His wife didn't. What are they gonna do if Martin actually decides Robb's son is gonna play a role in the books? I almost wish he would just to say "Y'know, even I wouldn't stab a pregnant woman in the stomach". And this is the guy who half the villains in his stories are "Rape rape rape we love to rape"!
I wouldn't be cynical about this show, it’s audience and about the people that like it if not for the fact that I grew up with the far left view of history, the one that focuses entirely on the minority viewpoint, all Guns, Germs and Steel, and I've seen every permutation of the oppressed minority tale told and I've actually gotten not so much bored by it so much as thought "I GET it already, stop preaching to the choir". I’d never gotten the “lighter and softer” side of the story growing up. Perhaps that’s why I find an appeal to them right now.
Anyhow…episodes like “Rains of Castamere”…books that are essentially medieval versions of the Sopranos just aren’t my cup of tea. I have honestly tried to endure them and for a while there was a hint of brilliance there. But…the show has pushed me and pushed me and finally pushed too far. I cannot stand watching the show. Nor can I continue to stand idly by and hear people argue that having heroes that mutilate and kill are something we should agree with. It’s why I’m against the “Superior Spider-Man” books.
…and I could go on for HOURS about THAT series. But I won’t. I have other attempts to be thoughtful to get to work on, however flawed they and I may be. If you disagree…well, y’know, it’s your opinion. And I welcome it. Honestly, I’d like to hear what you see in the show. And if you find the violence or the acts within are appealing, I WOULD like to know why because I believe in discourse and debate. But please, let’s not have just a case of “you’re just retarded” and insults in all caps. It doesn’t do jack to elevate the discourse. Snark is a poor man’s version of wit and we are suffocating in it like we’re swimming in sewage.
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I've always been a sucker for happy endings...which is why I view the series with morbid curiosity rather than actual interest...like one might view cocaine at a distance. As in 'Why do people keep watching this and torturing themselves'. It's been five books and we've only lost one villain along the way...whereas the heroes...drop like flies.
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