o.o

Is there a problem?

Heh...wow man.....all I have to say is be careful...but still beautifully done.

Im hoping people are smart enough to see that this is just art, just a view point, and Im not stopping anyone from practising any religion they wish, or believing anything they wish.
I only ask they allow me to do the same :)

And thanks!

I love the picture, but which viewpoint is it exactly? It's hard to tell. Or is it just an anthropomorphized Jesus? :)

Its just a way of showing how rats are killed daily, often in horrendous ways, purely because people don't understand them. Also, most of us owe our lives to a rat, or know someone who does, due to the amount of medications that were originally tested on rats. Laboratory rats that are no longer needed and are set to be killed are actually termed as 'sacrifices' in the lab, hence the name.

Ohmygod.
You're exactly right.
& people still claim them to be "dirty" and "disgusting"
]:
It's cruel and disgusting what those laboratories do to animals.

Favedd.

Well, you could try testing them on people first, or me since I really don't count.

That would be considered an atrocious act.

Which is why we use rodents.

Yup
Dno't make it any less cruel though

Agreed.

Small evils are sometimes necessary, but that doesn't mean we have to like them.

Not to mention there would be a stack of lawsuit papers higher than the fuckin CN Tower

That's what I got from this as soon as I saw it. It's nice to see people drawing attention to rats and pushing for the respect they deserve. This is going in the favourites. :3

well i seen it as a lab-rat sacrifice. seeing the testing vs not testing debate on pet sims populated by 12 to whatevers is interesting.

a mouse is like someone's grandma who was kidnaped and dogs and cats are swiped out of people's yards to have shampoo shoved in their eyes. argg.

not bashing on mice and calling them nothings. just i don't know if one could say their social relationships are the exact same

This oh my god. This should be posted everywhere. This picture is so much better then the PETA posters >:c

0.o You know what just happened right now?....Deja vu....I just had a moment of deja vu......But yeah, your welcome ^^

It is unfortunate that rats are tested on (which I don't agree with either) to "better" humanity when, at the end of the day, it all boils down to/ is for the sake of greed and the "almighty" dollar, IMO.

Wouldn't have laying down a rat like this on an old fashioned biblical stone alter symbolized the same thing? The Cross normally symbolizes the forgivness, and salvation of all humanity, not just one simple "sacrifice". To me, this picture kind of trivializes what Christ did for us.

Christ was not the only person to ever be crucified, remember. Many people were.

The cross was chosen mainly because if you ever look at a lab rat that is pinned to a board for dissection, it is pinned like this, with its arms spread out, in an almost crucifixion-like pose. Thats what started the whole idea in my head in the first place.

To you as a religious person, it may trivialise what christ 'did for us'. But to me, who is not religious, it does no such thing. And just as you have the right to state that you find it somewhat offensive due to your beliefs, I have equal right to display my beliefs.
Which is what I've done here :P
Rats are, to me, almost a holy and sacred animal. I hold them up as being probably the most important thing in my life, and one of the few things I would die to defend. I'd say they're just as important to me as your religion is to you.
Therefore, far from trivialising Jesus, it could be seen as a compliment when you consider how highly I prize rats.

Don't think of it as 'comparing jesus to a simple rat.'
See it as 'she's comparing jesus to something she holds up as the most important thing in her life'

Surely if anything, that is complimentary to Jesus?

If you truly view a rat as a "god" I suppose it could be viewed as "complimentary". You do make a good point that Christ was not the only one crucified. Of course there were two convicted robbers cricified with Him (at the same time). I forgot that crucificiton was the roman empire's "electric chair?" at the time; it's just that the cross and crucifiction has become so synonymous with Christ. This art/ expression piece, ironically, evoked my emotion and opinion in the last message.
I like to say that I do not have a religion so much as a faith. To me religion is something you follow "religiously", day in and day out, until it becomes a mindless habit.

If art you say it is, then art it shall be.

I can see your point; with what the Cross signifies, it's almost a quiet gratitude to the bullshit rats go through, so that the collective human race can know a decent life.

I mean, hey, rat never did nothin' to me.

Look up the temple to Ganesh in India where they keep and feed thousands of rats as symbols of the rat that was Ganesh's beloved companion and occasional steed.

oh, rats are important to Hindus to right? (well a lot of animals hare i think)

Greed and almighty dollar? Tell that to yourself the next time you use literally any medication, because at some point there was preclinical safety testing performed, oftentimes using rats. Unless you want direct human testing of any drugs, at some point the kinetics, side effects, and performance end up requiring some sort of animal model for testing. Rats are relatively cheap by comparison to a cyno or porcine model.

That all depends if you truly believe in an invisible man in the clouds that does nothing all day.

Interesting. What did you make doing such a pic?

beautiful and stunning piece dear
has a great meaning to it

Nice art work. I like the symbolism. I'm a Christian. I wasn't offended. Just wanted to let you know some of us can be open-minded.

Heehee, thats cool. I have no problem with christianity at all, or any religion, wouldn't want people to think Im deliberately trying to offend anyone. This image has been in my head for a long time.

You're explanation to Mishachan really helped. I hate animal testing too. And rats, for some reason are such a target of those test. The poor rat has a bad rap anyway. They are considered filthy, diseased-ridden vermin and it's really the parasites on them that have caused all the problems. Rats are quite useful and quite lovely creatures.

I really have to say... this is a very moving pic. It's so powerful with both the emotion and the symbolism behind it. The number plastered on the top of the crucifix is one of the most powerful aspects, I think, as it depersonalizes the rat in setting that was meant to be very personified (i.e., Jesus at the crucifix). It's one of those drawings that actually did bring a tear to my eye... The poor rats really do die for our sins.

Er, perhaps I rambled, but I just wanted to say what a good job you did at really making this piece very powerful and emotional. Thumbs up.

wow, awesome!
he's suspended at his paw,I like so much this idea!
But, you know, I miss a blood....

It was inspired by the way lab rats are pinned to dissection boards :)

Very wonderful work. Clever symbolism, and a the picture is so dark and morbid, it's almost beautiful in a way...if you understand what I mean.

I figure allot more trees n plant lives were used to keep humanity going than rats or mice in labs. - Some people are against animal-testing, others are not. Ziggy what do you think about animal testing and vermicide?

Im opposed to animal testing, and basically anything that kills rats unecessarily, including poisons/traps etc.
Trees aren't sentiant beings with the intelligence of a toddler, so why Im not disputing that many die for us, I don't think its the same thing really.

Impressive fur rendering.

i know what i do! ahha to hell with me!

Very confronting, but highly conceptual. I like your symbolism and the concept behind it. :)

Holycrap.. that made me cry a bit. ;_;

That pose seems all too familiar to me.

Typical lab rat pinned for dissection. Though they usually have their hind feet pinned up too, for the purposes of this pic I squished them together :P

I got to see mice like that, when set up for trans-cardial perfusion.

nice. i can see your point very well. and though i may be a christian i hate god. long story to that one. lol.

Lol, interesting :P

tis a very long story.

Rats are more important to us than people realize. Hell, just the other day one of my teachers was proudly telling a story of how he stabbed a rat to death with the end of a broom stick! Yeah, he "knows not what he done".

Bastards.

I want his name!
LOCATION!
AND ANY FAMILY RELATIONS!

The best I can give you is a last name and general location.

Exactly. Would people boast so proudly about doing that to a puppy, or a kitten? Unlikely. Seems its ok to horribly abuse animals as long as they're rats.

That's what I was thinking.

Or lizards, frogs, bugs, spiders, mice, scorpions, pigeons, snakes, dolphins.. All the critters which are considered pests, just depents on where you are. Oh and you can add puppies and kitten also, since there are some places which are "infested" with them and people living there see them as pests also. :O

Yes, but in general, in the society you and I live in, it would be unusual (not to mention illegal) to smash a kitten to death with a brick (as an example)
But its done daily to rats, and for what its worth, rats are considered more intelligent than cats and some dogs! (not that a creatures intelligence dictates its right to a cruelty free life, but many people seem to be most offended by the abuse of those animals that are higher up, hence why apes are so frowned upon in laboratory use, but these same people have no problems torturing rats!)

I'd have to check my laws and such, but I believe its illegal, in the USA and UK at least, to kill cats and dogs as 'vermin', but totally legal to do it to rats. I've even been told that in the USA, rats are exempt from animal cruelty laws :o

there was a kid in school, in one of my grades who bosted about putting a cat in a microwave for 20 seconds and him and his friends laughed about it stumbling around and drinking a lot of water

Rats do die for our sins. I like this

Ooh.
& Pride/Vanity is one of the 7 deadly sins. :]
Rats & other small animals are tested on for cosmetic reasonss..

I like your thinking.

Yes! Few people follow my wavelenght with these things.

Rats are involved in quite a bit more important work than that, though.

I saw this and immediatly knew what point you were trying to get across. Nice job.

Haha I read this as what I feed my snake every week >.> *gulp*

Oh fuck off *rolleyes*

What? :/ I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. That's how I read it. I thought it was anti-snake owner.

If you'd read the blurb, or any of the comments, snake owners are barely mentioned. Also, if you don't know about my hatred of people who kill rats by now, thats not my problem. I've made it quite public. Why do snake owners always feel the need to come on deviations featuring rats and talk about their fucking rat killing? Do you honestly think rat lovers want to hear that? Do you go on deviations featuring kittens and puppies and talk about how you love to kill THEM?

Just fuck, off, seriously.

Well, I don't kill rats. Also, I was just giving you my very first impression of the piece without reading anything, from looking at the preview. I apologize and had forgotten about your... "strong beliefs." I will try not to mention it again.

Appreciated.

mmm... tasty puppies and kittens...

I could make a similar drawing for rattle snake roundups if you'd like

IAWTC

Oh man, come OFF it.

Get a clue or leave, please.

How bout you watch your mouth you terrible person you.

BTW, I killed a rat once. It was in my pizza box.

How about you don't bother looking at deviations that are made by such 'terrible people' and don't bother commenting unless you have something constructive to say? Or would that require just that bit too much intelligence?

My constructive thing to say is get a life you dumb, trite, excuse for a human being. You can't make a difference in the world, so whining about it for attention isn't getting you anywhere besides making you look like a moron. Have fun with your no friends or social skills. If I see you mindlessly tell another person to "fuck off" I'm personally going to the nearest pet store, buying as many rats as I can afford, slaughtering them, and sending you the pictures. You crazy, sad person, you.

These are THE most excruciating words I EVER had to read . . .

Yeah, I remember my first beer too......

Why are people getting all huffy about this? It's obvious that Ziggy is very passionate about rats, so why come here and talk about killing them? You may not agree, but that isn't any reason to be rude.
People that like rats or have pet rats usually have to deal with a lot of other people talking about how much they want to kill them or how much they hate them, and it gets old. Kind of like Pit Bull owners getting upset when people talk about how pit bulls should all be killed because they are "dangerous." You just get sick of hearing it.

THANKYOU.
Im so sick of seeing people come to rat related pics and just casually mention how they like to kill rats. I have no idea what goes through their heads, or why they think a rat lover would want to hear it.
Is it just because they're rats or do they do it to every animal related pic? "ooh, lions, I love to shoot lions!' "ooh, puppies! I put one in the oven once!"

I don't wanna know about what people feed their fucking snakes, I don't wanna know if someone saw fit to murder a rat through their own ignorance, I don't want people like that constantly reminding me they exist; its depressing.
I know these people exist, hence this deviation and the description, I just wish they'd leave me the hell alone and keep their stupid to themselves ;)

Yeah, I don't really get it. It has about the same logic to me as people going to a church just to tell the people there how much they hate religion, or...y'know, something like that. I just know how annoying it can get, so I know where you are coming from.

Zig, this is a wonderful piece. 8U It's very significant and I read your statements about it over and over and I completely agree with you.

Faved for awesomeness and symbolic greatness.

+

seeing this, all I can say is "Crucifying mice - bad idea."
#116 in http://skippyslist.com/list/

my first thought as well

Really I don't see how people can be offended by this, or why you should be 'careful' about expressing how you feel in anyway..
I think its sad that these animals die for humans who are so ungreatful, and hate them, call them "vermin" when they are the true vermin..But with snakes and rats, the rat are actually benifiting the snake more than it could ever help us, its just one or two every week or few weeks, people kill them for no reason..
I love rats, but with what bowrll, I can't stand to see a starved snake..Because I love them too...though that person could have been a little more respectful of your view, too many assholes on the internet..
Anyway yea, I don't know what I'm saying. O.o

Ignore that, I was being a dumb ass that day.
Sorry. D: I re-read the other comments.
Anyway, I hate people who kill rats, or any other animal for pure enjoyment or because they are bored. It makes my skin crawl what people do in labs in the name of science..And still say that these animals are filthy and diseased.

haha what the fuck

sorry i didn't see your explanation before i commented

i support you 110%!!!

I live in NYC where we kill rats everyday. Sometimes the rats aren't even bothering anyone. They just come out of hiding. It's fun to throw boxes and bricks at them. Once it landed on a rat's head and it just went SPLAT. I felt so fucking powerful ever since.

I bet you achieved a semi the like of which you'd never had before.

but a rat? they are smallish. take down an elephant with a brick. that is power.

yeah, they're pretty cruel here. Its really sad, i LOVE rats and yet i feel bad when i see them all over manhattan because i know they're going to be killed somehow. Its horrible.

Don't forget the fruit flies. All those genetic experiments. :< MONSTERS

Hmm... Just like cows, the mice would never have even been born if not for the specific cause of experiments. Equating animals to Jesus is a great way to get people to give their sympathy, however that's all it is. Blind sympathy for something people don't know much about in the first place. Would these people even care about the well being of a mouse if someone didn't whine about it? Humans die all over the place over very little. Kids have diarrhea and die of dehydration when it is nearly harmless to first world countries... but negligence and willful blindness is easier to accept than people actually causing harm unto the animals. Whatev's. I am going to go eat my 'humanely killed' and organically grown steak now to ease my poor conscience, but heaven forbid I ever need a vaccine that someone tested on an animal first.

On another note, most people likely dislike rats due to the stigma across the centuries.... Rats spread disease and kill many many people unintentionally. Yes, to defend my child I would probably kill a rat to prevent the spread of a deadly infection of possible rabies.

I understand your point and I agree with you to an extent... I feel many more people would benefit from the knowledge of what rats and mice suffer through for the benefit of humanity. Mice and Rats have their place in the world just like Humanity, plants and insects alike. And I did enjoy your putting your opinion out there like this. Keep it up.

Jesus wasn't the only person to ever be crucified, you know.


"Rats spread disease and kill many many people unintentionally. Yes, to defend my child I would probably kill a rat to prevent the spread of a deadly infection of possible rabies"

Which kinda shows me how little you know about rats. Rats are one of the few species from which you are highly unlikely to get rabies. Two reasons. Firstly, and mainly, rats are so small that most of them would actually die from a bite from an infected rabid animal so not go on to spread it. Secondly, rats have a 'dry bite', meaning their teeth are so far forward in their mouth that they don't get saliva in a wound, like dogs do, so it makes transmitting rabies particularly hard.
The only disease you're really at any risk of getting from a norway rat (and lets not confuse our species here, pet rats and lab rats are all norway rats, a COMPLETELY different species to the one associated with plague) is weils disease. And what do you know, you can also get that from foxes and several other species of wildlife. Funny how people only seem to remember the rats while other animals, including our dogs and cats, are out there spreading far worse.

You'd kill a rat to 'protect' your child. I'd kill your child to protect my rats. I hope you aren't hypocritical enough to think that only works one way.......

Im not a vegetarian, I have no problem with ethically reared, humanely killed meat. Its what I eat myself. But I do have a problem with outdated, innaccurate, dangerous, inhumane 'science' which tortures millions of rats needlessly each year.

"Jesus wasn't the only person to ever be crucified, you know."

I see that you've had to say this to a few people, which leads me to believe that you intended to show a likeness between the sacrifice of Christ and your perceived sacrificed of lab rats. If this was your intention, then it's senseless to point out that others were also crucified.

Now while i'm not here to say that you're not entitled to your opinion, i think you should at least try to be as understanding of other's as you might hope they would be of you.

First of all, this picture is blasphemous to those of us to believe that Christ offered himself on the cross intentionally to atone for the sins of man so that we may be able to enter the kingdom of Heaven, whose gate had been closed to us since the fall of Adam. You may say that it a compliment to Christ that you liken the rat to his sacrifice, but to a Christian, Christ sacrificed himself for YOU, and the rest of us so that we may be with God in the next life. It is demeaning that you would suggest that an animal's UNWILLING death for any reason is somehow equivalent to the intended sacrifice of ones own life for the benefit of others. These rats have no control of themselves, or their lives. So it is amiss to suggest that they would ever concern themselves with another's well being, for any reason other than the obvious mother caring for her young.

Another point i'd like to make is that while you soley focus on the plight of the lab rat, you ignore the injustices suffered by other animals. Frogs, for instance are also manipulated in the "crucified" position to make ready for junior high biology students to dissect. Now i love frogs, i think they're rather fascinating. However, i'm more a mamal type, so the animals i focus on are usually primates. Did you know, for example, that the chimpanzee shares over 98% of it's DNA with us? These animals are highly social and highly inteligent. They exhibit high levels of emotional thinking along with self-awareness. These animals have been used for decades as research subjects. They are bred in facilities that remove them from their mothers at an early age and often times, injected with human diseases in order to test treatments, vaccines, and effects. These are animals who can live to be 60 years old, and have memories just as long as a humans. They remember faces, places, events and can even learn to communicate with humans with various signs and pictures. They're beautiful animals, and they have also been exploited, in my opinion, in worse ways that the rat.

I find it irresponisble for you to take up the cause of only one species of suffering animal, to the point of being indefferent to others. The rats aren't the only ones who suffer, and as far as i know, they're pretty low on the totem poll (no offense) when it comes to scientific research. They start out with rats, and move on to more intelligent animals as experiments evolve.

Don't get me wrong, i am not an advocate of senseless harm done to anything, for any reason. God said to Adam "have dominion over all animals" this "dominion" is not meant to be a form of control or exploitation, but rather it is meant for man kind to use animals in the best and most respectful way. Animals are meant to help man. As creatures of God they should be treated with respect and love, because THAT is what God intended for them. It is truly unfortunate that they are exploited on a daily basis, by many immoral people. However, i believe that for most part many scientists and researchers believe that they are doing what is necessary for some sort of benefit of man kind.

Please keep in mind that people all over the world are exploited on a daily basis as well.

I would venture to guess that you don't just love rats, you'd rather be one. I make this observation based on browsing through your gallery. I may be faulted in making this assumption, but it seems to me that someone who deifies an animal would NOT depict said animal in base and objectifying pictures. Rats copulate for the soul intention of reproduction, to show them in any other way is to attribute human emotions to an animal that simply does not have them. I know that rats also show dominance by "mounting" one another, but again, this is not for sexual gratification. I suppose thats whole point of anthropomorphism, but my understanding of religions that view animals as holy, is that they do not assume that they have human traits. The animal is seen as holy because it is a representation of an actual deiety who may be animal and human combined.


Another point i'd like to make is that altruistic behavior is one that many "lower" animals exhibit in the wild, in their natural habitats. The fact that you stated that you would chose the lives of your rats over that of a human child, is suggestive that you lack this basic instinct. It shows ignorance of human relationships, and disregard for the continuation of your species. You may well hate people as a whole, you may in fact wish you were not one... Unfortunately these traits are the antithesis of traits that a mammal needs in order to survive. In other words, you and others like you go agianst evolution. You would not survive. Fortunately for others, most people do not share your polarized opinions.

I disagree with the importance you place on the rat. I disagree with you trivializing the sacrifice of Christ by representing the rat in the same manner. I recognize, and respect your right to have your opinions and your beliefs. I am not here to change your mind, i know i cannot, and have no desire to.

"So it is amiss to suggest that they would ever concern themselves with another's well being, for any reason other than the obvious mother caring for her young."

Just as a piece of info, rats are actually a group animal, like wolves, with the same alpha/beta/omega group structure. As such, they are able to exhibit qualities common in group animals, such as concern for their group members, self sacrifice to save others, and intense bonds with others in their group to the point where it is not uncommon for a rat to pine to death after losing a cage mate or owner. One of my rats pined to death when I went on holiday for a week.
Rats have been actually seen to lead older, frailer rats in their group away from danger, risking themselves to do so. Rats are generally considered to have the intelligence of a toddler. They are extremely emotionally aware animals. Please do not venture to evaluate rat behaviour when you clearly do not understand or know much about the animal.
I've lived alongside rats for 10 years. I've had rats sleep beside me on my pillow. I've spent 24 hours a day in the company of rats before, just observing them.
If there is one thing I know, it is rats.
Without being rude, someone who hasn't had anything to do with the species can't really claim to know how they behave or what they do and don't experience.

"They're beautiful animals, and they have also been exploited, in my opinion, in worse ways that the rat."

I LOVE primates. In actual fact, they're one of my favourite animals, right up there with rats and canines. But I do not see their suffering as any worse than that of a lab rat because, as I've mentioned, rats are also hugely emotionally aware, bonded to their families, are highly social and intelligent animals - just like chimps. I see no distinction between the two - both suffer, both feel pain, both suffer emotional turmoil when wrenched from their families. In fact, Im a member of the BUAV and I campaign to end ALL animal experiments, but rats are my number one passion because I own 18 of them, and devote my life to rescuing abused rats. Most of my 18 rats would be dead today if I hadn't taken them in.
Rats are the most commonly used animal in laboratories, and the most commonly abused because they are cheap to buy, cheap to breed and aren't worth much money. There is a LOT of campaigning being done in the anti-vivisection world currently to get primate use completely banned from labs, and many will no longer use primates.
No such effort is being taken specifically for the rat, which is an animal that is not too much less intelligent or social or amazing. I find it highly hypocritical that people get so offended about primate use because of their 'intelligence' when the rat, commonly cited to be as smart as a toddler, is commonly accepted as fair use in labs.
Besides which, your argument seems to be that because something ELSE bad happens, Im not allowed to speak out about THIS bad thing? What kind of warped logic is that? If this were the case, there would be no art at all and no-one would ever voice any opinion on anything! I care deeply about MANY animal welfare issues, and campaign and financially support many causes.
So I choose to make one art piece show casing my devotion to this paticular cause, that means I can't possibly care about any others? ok.....


"Please keep in mind that people all over the world are exploited on a daily basis as well."

Again, what exactly is your point? Why does that have any bearing on whether I speak out about rat abuse or not? There are all kinds of horrible things happening daily, to all species, but I am one person. I do as much as I can, but rats are my main passion and the main animal I seek to save from abuse, because so few other people bother. We all have that one cause that hits us harder than others. For some its child abuse, for some its breast cancer, for some its animals.
Mine is rats. Rats are amazing animals, and one of the most universally and LEGALLY abused species on our planet, and while dogs, cats, elephants, chimps have a lot of people looking out for them, so few people are looking out for the rat.
You seem to suggest with your comment that human suffering is more important than rat suffering? Not to me it isn't. My passion is rats. Your might be humans. Why does one have to be more important than the other?

"I would venture to guess that you don't just love rats, you'd rather be one."

Lol, no thanks. Im quite happy being human. I draw myself as a rat purely because I enjoy drawing cartoon animals (have drawn cartoon animals since I was 8), and don't enjoy drawing humans. You have so much more artistic freedom with animal characters. It does not, in any way shape or form, mean I want to be a rat. I can't believe you're on furaffinity and you still don't get the idea of representing yourself as an animal character FOR FUN.

"The fact that you stated that you would chose the lives of your rats over that of a human child, is suggestive that you lack this basic instinct."

Don't you think thats a bit arrogant and bigoted? Just because YOU don't understand, you take it upon yourself to decide Im lacking in certain instincts? Why is it totally sane to want to kill a rat to save a child, but totally insane the other way around? Don't you think thats being a bit close minded? I don't like children. I don't want children, I will never have kids, and am proudly child free. My passion is my rats. They're like children to me. I love them like a parent loves their child. Once again, just because you cannot relate, that doesn't make it wrong. I personally can't understand the appeal of human children, I personally can't get emotionally moved about their plight, in fact, I'd even go as far as to say I dislike kids.
But I still fully accept that thats just my opinion and many people adore children, and I would never argue with someone about how they're obviously not right in the head because they like kids instead of rats.
Yet people seem to think its a-ok to do the same to me.


"I disagree with the importance you place on the rat."

How can you disagree with my loving an animal species and devoting my life to helping it? How can someone possibly be OPPOSED to someone fighting for better welfare for a species? Its a passion, a love, a calling, and you saying you 'disagree' with it is as non-sensical as me saying 'I disagree with the importance you place on human life'.

"I disagree with you trivializing the sacrifice of Christ by representing the rat in the same manner."

You see it as trvialising, I see it as flattery. I hold rats up as one of the most important things in my life. If that isn't flattering to jesus to be compared to something that means so much to me, what is?
Also, I must mention, I am NOT A CHRISTIAN. In fact, I don't even believe in a christian god. Im rather sour about religion in general, actually. I refuse to be bothered by the fact that some christians will choose to be offended by this. Without being a bitch, I don't care. Religion is your thing, not mine, don't try and imply I should even feel remotely responsible for how those who choose religion feel about my work.
Many christian friends of mine had no problem with this pic at all.
You have your beliefs about jesus and god and what not, and express them as you see fit, and I'll do mine regarding rats.

Sheesh such long comments and convos and arguments going on here XD Its an expression of someones belief, you dont like it deal with it, you like it good then, big problem. Not everyone has the same tastes in food and clothing, so obviously art is subjective.

Ahhh but put a little religious icon in a pic and then u get a bunch of flamers and offended people, well... christians anyways, you never see a buddhist offended by someone drawing a purple Buddha or a pagan offended by a drawing of a bleeding nature spirit haha. I left christianity for many reasons and one of them is their disregard for animals and how they consider them as lower beings and that they dont deserve the same level of respect they are obligated to give to another human. All because they say that animals and plants were created for men by "god" and thats why we have so many problems with the natural habitat nowadays. We are also animals no matter what the bible says or christians say that "nooo we are not animals.. we are humans" yeah yeah we have hair we have nipples we give milk... uhhh MAMMALS?? we have 5 fingers and share DNA with many animals and even look alot like apes when were very little or very old. Of course we have bigger brain capacity and the ability to reason above other beings of this planet and a much higher crafting ability above simple tools but still we are animals and have always been.

As for their abuse... yes some people complain that your narrowing your species or that you cant compare the human suffering with a "lower animal" plants dont have nerves whatsoever and many people including myself believe they can also feel in some way. But many animals suffer and so do people, that's just how it is, life is unfair and no one can say they are completely happy and that they have never suffered from either emotional or physical pain. Some people argue that emotional is worse than physical... but i disagree, with emotional you can douse yourself with pills if u want or take years of therapy or just fix it with meditation or so. But with physical... theres no turning back and no real way to fix it, if u loose an arm you cant just take pills to fix it or work for years to get it back, and physical abuse leaves marks wich can be seen and cant be hidden unlike emotional abuse, and also.... physical can really kill you if its severe or leave you crippled or mutilated for the rest of your life.

I do appreciate your point of view on this, i also like rats but my passion are bats and wolves, and well with bats... their also thought as vermin and as "rabies carrying plague" and are generally misunderstood animals, unless they care about the fertilizer that comes out of their butts lol. Really nice job and some comments are just priceless XD keep up the good work

(lol and i was making fun of people making such long comments that were almost essays, OHHH THE IRONY!!)

maybe you should of said "and I'd beat some child up if they wanted to squish my rats or any rat for jollies, don't come near me or my pets or else"

About time someone stood up for Christians on here....

If, indeed, I was attacking christians then they'd be in the right to 'defend' themselves. As it is.....

stop causing drama..sheesh, take this convosation up in a note next time
classic furry moment, second a chance to bitch opens, its like a race to the commentbox

but people don't set up "frog traps" or put out "chimp poison"

You're two years too late for this comment thread.

I like the message portrayed by this picture. Insta-fav

:( Awww.....I have a little white rat named Gardenia....Nice reference! I love this!

I'm a Christian, and I think this is beautiful.

Just a Jesus died on the cross to save us, this rat is dying to save all other rats...that's all there is to it. It's art, I like it, and it delivers a powerful message.

I myself like rats and mice, and it makes me sad what labs do to them. They think it's ok just because there are millions of the things, but each and every one of them has a heart and feelings...

Still, if it wasn't for those cruel experiments, we really wouldn't have as many cures for illnesses as we do today...So I guess we do kinda owe our thanks to rats.

WOW!! One of those nosense pictures made by a great "artist" for showing people's hypocrisy about the cruelty against the animals!!
And the balls? Those are awesome for blaming this society (or to collect pageviews). Must fave!!
Uhm, wait...no.

I can barely understand you. If you're dyslexic, thats cool. No worries. If not, learn to fucking spell because I have very little idea of what you're going on about.

Rat balls for page views? WTF? Thats the most random shit I've ever heard of. Rats HAVE BALLS. I don't put them in for fun, THATS WHAT RATS LOOK LIKE.
Look at one some time.

You don't have to fave it, not at all. I only expect people with functioning brains to be faving this :)

Sorry, man but I'm not english.
And hey, you can accept that people can dislike your picture instead to scream and act like a little persecuted.
That's just what I see. And a crucified rat against the exploitation of rats just make me laugh. As well as "I only expect people with functioning brains to be faving this". If that can help you to reach your nirvana with the other people that thinks that you're damn right, that's ok. Sorry if I disagree.

You are welcome to disagree. Several people already have. But the idea isn't to do so by labelling my art as 'nonsensical', referring to me as an artist in commas, as if you don't believe me to be one, and then calling the picture hypocritical. I see nothing hypocritical about it and am interested as to where you got that idea.

If you wish people to converse calmly with you, then starting your post with the above accusations isn't a great way of doing it, no?

This hits a meaning deeper than I can type out..

Tsk, in the day of the judice, RaptorJesus will send you in hell fo this blasphemy

heh heh :P

Zombie Jesus > Raptor Jesus, imo.

I had a rat named Humphrey, he drank coffee or tea out of a doll house teacup if you'd give him some. Hold it by the handle and everything. He was pwn. But he got bit by a spider. I now have an unending hatred for Brown Recluse spiders.

LMFAO

Thanks for your constructive comment! I'll be sure to take that advice on board for my next piece!

im sorry that you post art on a public website and are picky about your comments ):
that was my reaction to your art, not advice

which btw wasnt bad either, i found it funny. and well done.

Not really picky, I just don't see the point in posting comments like that. If you find it funny, tell me why. If you hate it, tell me why. If you like it, tell me why.
4 letters doesn't tell me anything. You may aswell just post 'asparagus!' as a comment; its about as relevent.

oic

Wow. I love the way you did this.

The significance is amazing. Rats are put through so much. I mean we owe alot to them.

I cannot stand people who kill or sacrifice rats, either for the fact that they are ugly to them or for testing.

This piece is stunningly beautiful.

You have won a +fav from me.

-Fellow Rat Lover/Owner,

Yuchi

squeak of aproval!

The detail on the fur is really very nice. :o

And about your views on rats, I TOTALLY AGREE. All it takes for someone to understand is getting to know a rat on a personal level like I did with my first two rats, Inky and Gadget. :3

Double meaning picture? o0 but in all seriousnees, awesome pic =3

This is awesome. Not only rats, though... remember all the bunnies, cats, dogs and pigs that are also sacrificed for humanity... or well, put like that, we could be talking about any animal we eat, also...

Oh, well. =|

I like it, anyway. My aunt used to work in a lab where they used rats (at a hospital) and when I moved here, she couldn't come over because we had five pet rats and she knew she wouldn't be able to look at them without feeling guilty.

I agree with you in that any given animal's life is more important to me than any child's would ever be. . . I can't understand why, but, it's true. If a little kid kicked my cat, I'd probably . . . do something unmentionable to that little bastard. I don't exactly see how not caring about human life makes you automatically not fit for the evolutionary scale, if anything, it should be looked up to. Humans are overrated, overpopulated, and many other things, it's better for the general habitat, and our general happiness to not be crowded out by so many of our kind we can't even breathe. I'm not saying I want to kill people, I'm saying actually, that people should stop breeding.

What Ziggy expressed up there to that person who generated a wall of text is what I think a lot more people should feel.

This reminds me of what the comedian Bill Burr was talking about in one of his stand up specials. That we shoot, kill, and castrate animals to thin out there numbers for god knows what reason, and yet humans are allowed to shit out kid after kid after kid without a second thought, creating an environmental crisis. And I actually agree with him that we should not breed AT ALL for a good 30 years or more XD

I fucking love you. XD

LMAO ;)

Sagging genitals?

No, just normal rat balls; thats what they look like. But thanks for restoring my faith in the furry community's ability to zoom in on genitals at all times, regardless of everything else.

It was the most confusing piece of the picture. Besides, why would you emphasize that part of the entire piece?

Oh my.

I didn't emphasise it. Rats have big balls. Its anatomically correct. Deal with it. Look at a real rat some time.
If Im going to draw a realistic rat, Im not going to omit the balls just because some people still get giggly and silly over the idea of genitals. Grow up.

I'm gonna go stomp a rat now.

Whatever gets you hard.

HELL YEAH, LET'S STOMP ON RATS.

Blood and gore totally turns me on.

You're fapping right now, aren't you.

Yep.

lol I agree with this.
If someone draws a male canid and puts balls on them, the image should be rated as General, not Mature. Male canids does have balls irl, so why not draw them?

This is offensive. Everyone knows Mouse Jesus was black. D:<

LMFAO

Aquacon is right.
Should have an ear on his back though.

Very well-done and a very deep picture. Say what you will about rats, but by God if they haven't been helpful little creatures as of late. I'm glad to see some people have gotten over the old stereotypes of rats from back in the days when they really did pose some health issues i.e. Bubonic plague and whatnot

Thanks!
Problem with the whole plague thing is that people throw the term about indiscriminately, without the knowlege of species to back it up.

There are two main species of rat that we're likely to come across today. One is the black rat (rattus rattus, sometimes called a roof rat), and the other is the brown rat (rattus norvegicus, sometimes called the norway rat). Only one of these species is linked to the plague, the other is linked to helping eradicate the plague. People don't seem to understand this, however, and just assume all rat species are exactly the same.

The black rat was the rat which carried the fleas which caused plague (fleas which also lived on dogs, cats, and humans, but hey, people don't want to know THAT either).
The brown rat was not responsible for plague in any way, shape, or form. It DID, however, help to eradicate the plague by out-competing and driving away the black rat.

Black rats are rare today. In the UK, they're classified as one of the rarest mammals, and you're HIGHLY unlikely to ever see one. They're small, wirey, quick, more mouse-like, can live in trees, and have never been domesticated. They are always out-competed by brown rats in every situation where the two meet.

Brown rats are common the world over. They're the rats you'll see in the streets, being used in labs, or kept as pets. All domestic rats are brown rats. They're bigger, stronger, more robust, more docile. Brown rats have never carried plague.
So when people point at a pet rat, or a lab rat, or even a street rat and scream 'PLAGUE!!' they're just showing their ignorance, because those rats have never, ever, spread plague, and actually helped stop it by driving the black rats away.

Blaming the rats we'll see on a daily basis for plague is like blaming a sparrow for something a crow did. Both birds, but vastly different to one another. I really do wish more people would research these things.

But it usually takes too long to explain this to most of the people I come across in my life :p

well i didn't know rats helped end the plague. Interesting indeed. Though I won't be hugging street rats anytime soon (just because they aren't plague-ridden doesn't mean it's hygenic X3) but I definitely have a newfound respect for rats. plus they're kinda cute

heh, yeah, wild rats do still carry some disease, but no more than any other wild animal. Foxes and pigeons carry just as much, if not more, but I wouldn't hug one of them either :p
And lets not forget that domestic dogs and cats can even pass stuff on to us, whereas domestic rats can't.
Im not saying rats are all sparkly, fragrant, squeaky clean critters, but they definately get an undeserved reputation as being dirty when they're no more so than any other animal.

having a pet rat would be cool ^_^ I'd like a pet fox too but i need to earn a permit. but still that is so cool about rats.

I Loooooved your picture!
The best GEM I've seen in this s.. erm, place
Good wishes from me

This is gorgeous, and a very powerful image. Animals sacrifice so very much for us - without a choice, without consent, and without consideration. A huge part of why I'm vegan, but that's another story for another time.
Anyway, really, this is beautiful. I really like the touch of the number above the rat's head. Striking.

WWJTOT?

What would Jesus think of that?

Personally I think he would find it humorous then clock you on the head and heal you afterward. "Go and mock me no longer my son." LOL I like it though.

Jesus was a rat! And sooner or later all rats gotta suck the pipe!

116. Crucifying mice - bad idea.

I'll assume you've read the list

SCIENCE!

What a helpful comment, I'll take that on board!

I'm a very religious person, I get the point you're trying to make and I don't think this trivializes Jesus at all. Besides, crucifixion was a common method of execution back in those days. To automatically say that any potrayal of anything on a cross without knowing the artist's intentions is foolishly jumping to conclusions.

Finally, some expressive, true art on FA!

I personally think of Christ as a lion or lamb when made an anthro.

Speaking as someone who has performed research on lab mice at my college, I can't disagree with you here.

Lab rats and mice often die as parts of experiments that are vital to progress, and yes, saving human lives. Not just saving human lives, but bettering our understanding of life itself.

Many of these rats and mice suffer very little, or not at all (past an injection or two.) Many of the researchers are not unkind to them. Sometimes (since the only reason rats and mice are put down after an experiment is that we have nowhere to put them) the researchers will adopt them after the research is done (At least here at college.)

I really respect your position, and understand that in science we must always be constantly examining our ethical standards to ensure that we are on the right track. Dissenting voices are an important part of that.

That said... Someone once broke into the bio department's lab, grabbed all the rats, and "freed" them into some nearby woods.

They were being used in cancer research.

Being completely unadapted to life on the outside, they all died. Possibly life-saving data was lost.

So which of those two positions is more "right?"

Not accusing. Just saying.

Just like with the meat industry having good farms and bad ones, Im sure labs are the same.
But there are labs who have done HORRIFIC things to rats. Some labs were discovered to be locking rats in chambers with paint fumes to 'see what happened'. At the end of it, 80% were dead. Well shit, I could have told you that. How is that medical advancement? In the same vein, baby rats had tiny balloon like things inserted in their brains, then inflated. The result was they had brain damage. Again, Im not a scientist, but I could have predicted that.
You only have to go to websites of NAVS or the BUAV to hear more appalling stories.

And even if the animals are 'treated well', it is STILL incredibly dangerous and innacurate to use animals to predict the responses of people. There have been SO many drugs tested as safe for animals which later killed or maimed humans and were withdrawn. Don't make me fetch he list.
Animal testing is an outdated, innacurate, thing. In times gone by, we had no choice but to use animals as we didn't have advanced technology. But now? There are other methods which are far safer to humans than using animals.
A rat is not a human.

I find it really offensive, too, that rats have for so long been abused and made to endure cancer for our benefit, to the point where the domestic rat population has a weakness to cancer, and its incredibly common in pet rats. Yet whenever I have a rat get cancer, Im told there isn't much that can be done other than remove the lump or wait until it starts suffering and put it to sleep. No drugs or chemo offered. Rats are being used to test these things, and yet people still know fuck all about cancer in rats, apparently!

Its not an anthro chritst.

beautiful work here,
what to the numbers stand for?

hahaha christ. You know it's furry "art" when one takes a boring, semi-philosophical art piece that isn't at all subtle and combine it with animals with prominent genitalia.

Uh...what? Rats are my favourite animals, and they happen to have large testicals. Nothing I can do about that. If anatomically correct animals offend you, I don't really know what to suggest....don't go outside? It amazes me that people actually think I'd stick big balls on an animal just to appease furries. The sexual side of furry is one I keep well away from, and would definately not want to encourage.
Short of making this a female rat, there wasn't much I could do about the bollocks. Sorry.

OH LAWDY IS DAT SOME RAT? COOK DAT SUCKA UP AND EAT IT MMM MM GOOD!

.......is there someone who looks after you?

i know this is 2 years late to this, but my fucking god i laughed so hard at this comment

in during penisfrenzy

Just another Donkey to sell...

WTF are you talking about? Do me a favour, yeah? Go spout drivel on someone else's art.

Great fur rendering and great message.
One of my cousins had a couple rats once, I only got to see 'em a single time but they were brilliant beautiful creatures. Last I remember they did care for each other a lot, and did that pine to death thing you mentioned earlier in the comments when one died.

stop causing drama..sheesh, take this convosation up in a note next time
classic furry moment, second a chance to bitch opens, its like a race to the commentbox

failed ;-;

(was ment to be a reply :c )

Caring about animals is a huge no no in furry, didn't you get the meme? If you like animals enough to do a piece like this, you're either a psycho (been called it many times) or you think you ARE an animal (again, had that one thrown at me too)
People just seem unable to grasp the concept of being passionate about anything other than sex on this site.

i noticed the message you were trying to portray, i support your cause 100%

I was watching Verminators today, and I've decided to stop watching it now. They made rats look like the bad guy and forgot to mention it was humans that had provided an opportunity for the rat that was too good to pass up. Not to mention the sadistic exterminators. Ugh. I wish they would at least try to have some sympathy for a creature that understands survival better than us.

/mini-rant

Also, what the hell? People bitching about correct anatomy? That's a first.

I love you. And rats.

It's not cool to be compassionate, everyone wants to be a bad-ass all the time. I can't stand it.

Late in on the discussion, me, but THIS. *hugs you* I think compassion is cool, and so does my husband.

Good! It seems like most of the population has an attitude towards compassion like it's some sort of weakness, it's always "those damn tree-hugging hippies" or "those craaazy animal rights activists". God forbid you care about something like the environment or animals. I mean, we only LIVE on the earth, you know, why should we care about it?

No kidding! I've asked many a time "When did being an idealist become looked on as a mental disorder or social disease?" I've got no problem with caring about what we do to our world- I even became a near-total vegetarian because of how our food animals were treated (I eat some meat, but very little- mostly fish- and I refuse to eat beef). The looks I get when people hear my answer about what I believe are heart-breaking. it's either "I wish I were that brave" or "Yer a nutjob." I'm even working toward doing what I can to reduce my personal carbon-footprint by acquiring drought-resistant food-plants so I can grow some of my own food that won't have to be trucked a thousand mile to reach my grocer's. Or I just buy as local as I can.

I bet you're one of those folks who sees someone being attacked on the street and wades right in? I know I do that. Faced down a knife once, and another jerk had some kind of weapon in his pocket that he kept trying to hide (I think it was either a can of pepper-spray or a gun- they have similar hand-grips on some brands). I've beaten up guys who I caught pounding on their girlfriends. Vigilanteism is frowned on by the law, but when the law isn't there to do anything and a woman is at high risk of DYING (as in one situation I stumbled into), I don't give a shit.

Yeah, the world needs more compassion, more sharing, more of ANY of the positive human responses to adversity. I get to see some of it, though, and that's sweet. Watching folks come together to work as a unit to save homes from a flood or a fire, folks pooling their money to buy Christmas presents (heck, EVERYTHING from furniture to food and clothing) for a poor family who just lost their house to a fire, or a man rescuing a baby from a crazy woman trying to beat her to death on a sidewalk (that one just happened a few weeks ago in my hometown- poor kidling)... That stuff can make me cry tears of joy for seeing that there is still hope in this world. We're not all assholes, and it warms my scaly heart when I see it.

You give too much attention to criticisms. *sighs* Give attention only for your supporters here

I find people interesting, I find their reasons for doing things interesting. Critisism never upsets me, it just intrigues me, particularly troll-esque critisism. I wonder why people feel the need to do it.

Believe you or not, you have people who love you and your Art, and love mice and/or little critters including me, Aimoré

hope that teach the wermin not to mess around.


also reminds me of the first barry trotter novel where a mouse gain so much rank he became the messiha of mice.

>…> Gnehh, the snake comment really got to me.
I have a corn snake, she won’t ever come close to eating a rat.. And I could never live feed anyway,
I can see why people who own rats, mice and other stuff get up in arms around snake owners, because some of them can be fucking assholes.. But whatever.
Yeah, I remember reading that animal testing wasn’t even needed for things like makeup anymore. I’m not sure on the medicine thing, because they are still finding cures and all that, right? But can’t they..grow diseases, and test on those? I can’t remember.
Anyway, I’m against testing for like..candy and makeup and stuff, I remember my ecology teacher talking about how some candy makers don’t even use their test animals for real tests, none of it helps with the science behind it. Its just disgusting what their doing to animals, and people act like its alright.
Like you said, if they were testing on like..kittens and puppies, people would have a shit fest about it.

"I’m not sure on the medicine thing, because they are still finding cures and all that, right? But can’t they..grow diseases, and test on those? I can’t remember. "

This is the single stupidest thing I've read all day. Grow the diseases they're trying to fight -where- exactly? Oh wait, in a test subject. I don't even know where to start correcting you.
Jesus go do some research before you just sling retarded opinions out there.

Annnd just so Ziggy doesn't think I'm trolling, I really do like the piece and there's way too much wankery in these here comments.
Ziggy's the one who single-handedly converted me from the "natural" live-feeding mentality.

Lol, and I'm retarded?
I need to do research?
Fuck you.

Oh, and seriously learn to fucking read, kay? I said "I can't remember" meaning I didn't know if that was true.
Fucking faggot.

butthurttttttt :o

gb2class darlin.

lol fuck you fgt.
sure, i'm 'butthurt' from some faggot who can't read. lmao.

BAWWWWWWWWWWWWW

i lol'd.
fail troll.

Idunno, if I were trolling I'd declare this one a victory

That's new...

I once had an idea of making such picture,but I gave up.
and I am just working in such field.

There's really someone painted this topic. Thanks you.

What an interesting analogy . . .

i love this. Thank you. I was proud momma to two ratties for their precious little lives and they were the sweetest most intelligent creatures. it surprizes me how many people on FURAFFINTY are so anti-animal rights. its astounding... for a fandom that revolves around animals... i just dont get it.
good for you for putting that message out there.

I drew a picture very similar to this in college, along with a poem. I didn't think of the cross reference though. Awesome stuff.

This is a wonderful work. The meaning of it came through very clearly to me. I'm tempted to be a jackass and critique the accuracy of our portrayal for the poor rats' plight, (it's everyday people, not the scientists themselves, who tend to have blatant disregard for the rats' lives), but that's not the point, so I won't drivel. A wonderful work of art, with a very powerful message.

I love this <3

Beautiful work. Very cleanly executed. I read the comments you made about lab rats and how they are killed when they are no longer useful. I know a few people who took home their lab rats instead of leaving them to their fate. I happen to be a big fan of the "it helps the animal now and humans later (once the FDA is done with it)" type animal testing. Most of what is done now can be done in far more effective ways than by testing it on rats or other animals...clinical studies and paid volunteer humans come to mind.

cleasen their mortal souls this is worthy of being framed and hug in plain sight for all to behold

hung* not hug

I appreciate this piece. It tells a great story, but it also can hold diffrent meanings for diffrent people. It really depends on the mindset of the viewer. Some of my best friends are rats and I feel for them, the burden they carry with thier spiecies is very difficult.

Humanity has alot to learn and it will take a big step in evolution before we truely can care for lives outside our own, including our hard working animal bretheren. The rats that give thier life for science do so unwillingly, thier life is ended with some meaning, but thier choice to give that life has been taken away and for that, it is very sad

I get a lot from this. Very nice.

Ziggy, whoever thinks trhi is not a masterpiece, is gravely mistaken. Impactant, impressive, magnificent!

I immediately got this as a reference to animal-testing... which I despise as a cruel, horrendous and so unnecessary thing. O____o

Well-done!

Fuck vivisection. Thank you for this.

Ziggy,

I think your artwork is wonderful on so many levels. I've always had the same feelings for canines and I am also vegetarian, so I can relate to how people react to me not adhearing to the subjugation of other non human species.

I think a lot of these nasty reactions are just proof that your art was effective enough to shake them up of their pre-held views about another species. I think it's perfectly appropriate too considering rats are only second to the rabbit in one of the most abused animals.

Yeah, rabbits get a prety rough ride too, though at least people think they're cute and the pet ones are pretty much accepted as lovely kiddies companions. Rats still get an ick response, whether pets or not :(

Niiice. Great perspective, great texture feel. And the message behind it is pretty cool too

I had a rat once-saved her from being fed to a snake,or rather, the snake didn't want to eat anything that moved-so I kept her close and safe, and taught her things, she was so tame that she had a mattress all to herself and would inhabit it, or climb up family member's legs or onto the computer keyboard whenever she wanted to be carried around or cuddled; she even enjoyed wrestling with my hand-she never bit, just grabbed and tried to roll around with it-then we moved-she still had free reign to go wherever she pleased, if she wanted to, she'd just stay out on the front porch until she wanted back inside, always near-then one day I fund that she was gone-she didn't come when I called-then my mother told me that her boyfriend took her, and dropped her off at a dumpster-without my permission or knowledge-I really miss that rat, my Ginger

(Sorry for the large comment, but seeing this and seeing so many comments about it just gets me thinking about how little people do understand about rats)

I mean, speaking about the welfare of cute and fuzzy rats is one thing, but nobody cares about the welfare of lots of other animals we overlook in the world. I want to vomit every time I see someone squash an innocent centipede or cockroach when they have done NO WRONG. People need to learn living creatures are living creatures, mammal or not.

I agree. I don't condone killing any animal species for pointless reasons.
But rats are not generally seen as 'cute and fuzzy' by most people. They're the 2nd most commonly used species in laboratories after mice, and yet when people get upset about animal testing, its because they're thinking of the beagles or monkeys. No-one cares about the rats, yet they're the ones who suffer most.

I love your meaning behind this <3

Wow. I appear to have happened across this somewhat late.

Quick two cents, I absolutely adore rats, I have to be one of the most resourceful and clever creatures on the planet. People's misconceptions about them quite frankly piss me off to no end. However, this has all been said already, so yeah. I agree!

Also, although the plague was spread by rats, it actually originated in the 'Marmot.'

Click this for more


So in any case, the rats are as much victims of the plague than any human was, if not more so.

Anyway, this most deffinately earns a favourite from me.

What bugs me is that people look at domestic rats, or wild rats, and say 'eeuw, plague!' but the domestic rat, and majority of wild rats, are the species rattus norvegicus (the norway or brown rat). The norway rat had nothing to do with plague. It wasn't even around at the time the plague was at its peak.
The plague was spread by the black rat, which is rattus rattus. Its a completely different species. It looks different, acts different, has never been successfully domesticated, and is basically very different to a norway rat.
Black rats are pretty rare these days, particularly here in the UK where they're one of the rarest british mammals.
So when people accuse a pet, or most wild rats or being involved with plague, its just all sorts of ignorance.
Its like blaming a coyote for the deeds of a labrador. Same family, but vastly different animal!

In fact, if anything, the norway rat helped end the plague because it arrived and out competed the black rat, driving it away. Its a bigger, stronger animal so it always wins in conflicts. So in reality, people should be looking at pet rats with a positive view, because without them, the plague might have gone on much longer!
Bah, people eh? They just seem to be petrified of educating themselves when it comes to rats, incase they realise how absolutely ignorant they've been all their life :P

Man, I'm always so torn on this subject.

On one hand, my father has cancer and wouldn't be alive right now if not for rats and the testing done on them. Same goes for many other members of my family.
On the other, I hate the fact that there are labs with little or no compassion for the animals that are helping them.


The same is true for, say, cows. I love them, but I also love to eat them. However, I still hate how most of them are treated.

If these things were more humane, I honestly don't think I'd mind.


Eh.

I think, overall, I'm just thankful rats exist. Not only are they sweet animals, but they've also helped us come a very long way in medicine and treatment. If there was a way to catch and shut down all the mistreating labs, I'd support it 100%. I don't think it's possible to get 'em all, though.


Personal views aside, this is a great piece. All the little details really make it something.

Thing is, I have no issue with people getting the medical treatment they need. I just want them to get it safely; its as much a human rights issue as an animal rights issue.
Medicines tested on animals are flawed, and can be dangerous or even lethal. There is a whole list of medications which have killed or deformed people after being tested as safe on animals.
Remember Thalidomide? The drug which caused hideous birth defects in children? That drug was proven as safe in animal tests, but clearly had horrible effects on humans and had to be withdrawn once this was realised, There is a HUGE list of other drugs which have been withdrawn because of messing up humans.
Animal tests USED to be the only method we had, flawed as they were. But now, we have so many more advancements that we don't need to use dangerous and outdated animal experiments.

The powers that be want us to believe that animal testing is a 'necessary evil' that we HAVE to support because it saves human lives (I used to believe this too, until I did some research).
Thats just not true. It costs human lives. But by law, all new drugs have to be tested on animals before being released for human consumption. I find that deplorable; we're forced to take dangerous drugs that could kill us because the law says so.

What proves safe for a rat could kill us. We're too different.
Male rats. for example, can't eat oranges because it kills their kidneys. Rats don't have a gall bladder, we do. Rats can't vomit, we can. Sheep arent affected by anthrax, we are. Guinea pigs respond badly to penicillin, we don't. There are so many differences anatomically that its flawed to use animals.
Not only are we developing drugs which can harm us, but we're dismissing drugs that could really help, because they fail in animal tests.

So you see, its not about just not wanting to see animals harmed, its about how outdated and innacurate these tests are.

I see. Learn something new everyday, it seems.

Makes me wonder why it is the "powers" you mention are so hell-bent on continuing animal testing as it is. Hrm.

While I agree with most of what you say, I must take exception to your blanket dismissal of drug testing, which I notice you have mentioned more than once. For every failure like thalidomide, there are hundreds of successes, like hydrocodine, moxycillin, and ranatidine. Most people never hear about the successful drugs unless they get a prescription for them, because the successes do only what they are supposed to do, which is not newsworthy. Yet they are vital to hundreds of thousands of people, and animals too, every day.

Just as you decry condemnation of all rats based on the the one species that helped spread plague fleas, please don't ignore the many drug successes because of the few failures.

There are thousands of other failures too. Thousands of people have died from animal testing. The drugs you mention could have been developed without animal means just as successfully, without the risk to humans.
"Because of the biological differences between animals and humans, tests on animals cannot be applied to humans with any degree of confidence. The best guess for correlation of adverse effects between animals and humans is between 5-25%"
A quote from Ralph Heywood, past scientific director of huntingdon research center.
Many doctors and scientists are now turning away from animal testing.

Of course, the drugs we already have, created before people knew better, are here to stay and theres nothing we can do. But testing new drugs on animals is outdated, innacurate and very dangerous for people. So what if some ARE ok in the end? Do you wanna take that risk, and waste all that time testing it on animals, on a 'maybe'?

What are some of the alternative methods? I read a lot of science journals and I haven't seen anything mentioned, although finding non-animal alternatives is one of the "holy grails" that a lot of labs are looking for.

I know that a few drugs were successfully developed before animal testing, but their safety and effectiveness were utterly abysmal. That is why animal testing came about in the first place. It is no coincidence that the rise of "miracle drugs" in the early part of the 20th century coincides with government mandates for animal trials. I also know that pharmaceutical companies are staunch opponents of animal testing, as it is slow and expensive (thus cutting into their precious profits).

one of my personal favorites and i've waited nearly two years to say just...wow Ziggy, it's heavy.

I really like this image.
Rats are extremely misunderstood creatures and the amount of suffering their species goes through for the name of science is sickening.

.....Um.......yes?

mouse christus?

no

Wow, this is very deep! It looks like you put a lot of heart into it as well.

It's nice to see people so passionate about animals that they really care for, and try to get other people to realize what is happening to these poor guys. My friends had some rats, who were both really lovely and intelligent. I think today I have gained way more appreciation for them.

Jusus tity F•••ing christ there is a lot of loooonnnnnngggg comments....
I how ever respect all the other relidgons (sry for the beginning ofmy poast being a lol rude) but I think this is good. And has a food deep meaning be hind it *clap clap clap good job sir* I like rats as well my friend had one theay area lot of fun.

And all of the ppl that say rats are not dirty, well yes and no
I mean rats are to a point with all the rabies and desease n stuff rats can be but this is a tip it's called HAND SOAP! Lol any hoo just wanted to say that

Grate pic 5/5

Ps sry for the bad spelling Iz on my iPod....

Actually, its virtually impossible for a rat to transmit rabies.
Firstly, they're so small that any bite from an infected animal would probably kill a rat right away. Secondly, a rat's teeth are so far forward in their mouth that they don't get saliva into their bites, so its really REALLY unlikely you'd ever get rabies from a rat.
A dog though? Hell yes. But people don't cower in fear of every dog they come across.
Rats really are no more dirty than any other wild animal. They just have a bad reputation because of the plague, which rattus norvegicus didn't even spread! Its all based on ignorance.
And pet rats can't spread any diseases at all......but WE can give THEM illnesses ;)
I do always find it hugely hypocritical for humans to call rats dirty; we're far dirtier.

Yeah we are a hell of a lot dirtier. And the plague, the only reason it was so bad was we didn't know any thig about contanment and provention.
But I can't think of any animal dirtier tha us. lol.

and other rodents aside from a ground hog or beaver?(because of the size)

All of this would be absolutely fine and relevent IF animal testing was the magical successful solution you're making it out to be.
I've said many times here that my opposition to animal testing is as much to do with human welfare as animal welfare.
Testing on animals kills thousands of people each year, and maims or permanantly injures many more. Its not scientific to test human drugs on non human animals.
Rats are different to us. Rats don't have gall bladders, rats don't vomit, thats two major differences they have for a start.

You list old drugs and methods, but those were created back in the day before we had the choice. I have no issue with drugs tested on animals before other options were available; we knew no better. But now, we have plenty of other options, and animal testing is the most expensive, long winded and innaccurate of them all.
Added to which, I have never had to take 'tylonol' in my life, and don't consider it a drug worthy of torturing animals for, nor cold medicines. I'd rather suffer longer with a cold (plus, rats don't get colds, so why they'd test on them, I have no idea)

If animal testing was genuinely the only option we had in order to save humans, I'd grudgingly agree it is often necessary. But its just not, its the worst and most dangerous way of developing human drugs.

I dunno, humans are currently WAY overpopulated. So from that standpoint, I don't think we're in danger of dying out any time soon.
But I don't think anyone who is anti-animal testing wants us to test on humans; thats just shifting the abuse onto another species. There are methods which don't involve any animal sacrifices at all, whether us or another species.
The problem is that there is this belief that animal testing is a necessary evil, and its so commonplace that people don't bother to think there might actually be alternatives. I actually used to be in that camp myself. I grudgingly accepted animal testing because I had been brainwashed into believing it was the best way. It wasn't until I researched it thoroughly that I realised how out dated and innacurate it was.

Is this supposed to be funny? I find this quite insulting, there are many other subjects that you can use to illustrate animal cruelty (in this case testing of lab rats) so why did you use this one in
particular?

I am well aware of the fact that everybody has their own perception and different religious views but just because you don't believe in something doesn't give you the right to insult it.

Seriously dude change the subject of this piece, you can use other instances or even create a picture that illustrates animal cruelty/testing of rats based on real life events that have already transpired.

I don't understand why people purposely create trouble for themselves, do you think putting down someones beliefs make you look cool? If you do then you should know that it doesn't, it just labels you as a jerk

You've completely missed the point.
This is NOTHING to do with mocking religion. Thanks for assuming I am that disrespectful to other people's views. If you read up, there are several christians who have commented on this claiming they are in NO way offended. Its your problem, deal with it.

If you research animal testing, rats are pinned for dissection in a 'crucifixion' pose, ie, their legs and paws are pinned like this.
Jesus made a 'sacrifice' for mankind in his crucifixion, and rats make a 'sacrifice' for human greed when they're tested upon. Therefore, this IS based on 'real life events'. Its a plausible comparison.

You're the one looking like a jerk here, as you clearly didn't read the other comments where this isse has already been addressed, and other christians have already commented stating they see the idea behind the pic and don't see it as offensive.
Why would I spend 13 hours drawing each hair by mouse, and working my arse off on a pic just to be 'funny'?

If you are so sensitive about your beliefs that you choose to see every single crucifixion scene as offensive, then you need to deal with it, because its your issue, not mine, and not everyone elses.
Jesus wasn't the only person to ever be crucified you know. Many others were also.

Seriously, get over yourself.
Im passionate about the cause of animal testing and I am passionate about rats. This is called ART WORK. The idea of art is to make a statement and challenge people's conventional ideas, and sometimes that might offend the more sensitive people.
But so far, you're one of only 2 people out of the many who have seen this pic who have chosen to kick off about it being 'offensive'. You are an embarassment to the other more rational christians out there.

everybody has their own perception and different religious views but just because you don't believe in something doesn't give you the right to insult it

Exactly. So why are you here insulting MY beliefs and views, yet simultaneously expecting me to bow to yours? It goes both ways, dear. You're not exactly showing a great deal of respect to MY views here, are you?

I have ZERO problems with religion. The problem I have comes when people who are religious try to censor the freedom of speech of everyone else based on their personal views. Which is exactly what you're doing.

If you had time to look up at the other comments you you notice that this was not meant to insult Christians.

i don't think Ziggy is putting down Christianity or Jesus in any way, but rather comparing the work that is done on Rats as something that saves humans lives. As if they too are little saviours. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no insult meant here, not by this image at all.

I amend you fer this. As late as I might be on seeing this, you got guts and true to your strong belief. I have no understanding of lab testing and such, so I don't really have a view point on it. So I don't really have anything to say on that part of the artwork. But I do have to say it was exquisitely done and portrayed.

I also feel sorry for you having to deal with ignorant people's over sensitivity, but it's a given. Y'know. Can't be helped because people will be the way they will.

In the 70s (IIRC) labs started trying to breed their own rats rather than rely on breeders, so they were destroyed after experiments less and reintroduced for breeding after being exposed to say, carcinogens or whatnot, which leads to such high rates of cancer and tumors they experience today.

So while I feel for the little guys (used to have quite a few as pets), I think sometimes their destruction after testing is a bit more human than continued use and abuse.

Yeah, probably, though in my ideal world, they won't be used at all :P
The other thing is that labs breed a surplus regularly. Loads of rats are killed each year without ever having been used in experiments, just because labs can't seem to manage to breed the correct numbers. Its a horrible thing to think how many rats are just killed because they're 'surprlus to requirements'.

I simply adore this picture. I got the meaning behind it at first glance. I adore rats, I don't see how everyone doesn't like them. ): Poor things...

Love this, it's beautiful <3 Though, what does the number mean?

The most detailed rat I've ever seen.

Chu-Chu, nooooo!

I have pet rats, and they're my life...My little lily and her children. I can't imagine anything happening to them :(

It reminds me of animal testing. I don't see this to be crude at all. It's very beautiful and in my opinion insightful.
The truth is, Rats save lives every day by the testing done to them. I think this is very appropriate personally.

Wether or not i agree with the testing is irrelevant, I just think this is a beautiful piece.

Painful but beautiful, and another piece that needed to be said.

What a wonderful art.. Brings back memories.. that quote.. Jesuwah..

I know I'm super late to this submission, but I just wanted to express how meaningful it is, and that some of the people in this thread are entirely too ignorant and quick to judge to be allowed to surf the internet unsupervised.

I'd say more, but anything else I'd have to add has already been said :3

As A Christian, I can DEFINITELY see people taking this the wrong way. <:P
At first to be totally honest, I didn't get it. I knew there was something about the number on top of his head. So I read a few posts and found my answer. <:)

I'm very happy to see that you love animals so much. <:3
It's just that this was just a little too bold of your love manifested. <:P
I hope no others take this the wrong way, and read the comments like I did. <:3

But, your art is spectacular, with the gloomy atmosphere, the rays of sun and the details on the cross. It's beautifully done! :D

Thanks,
I feel art is there to challenge perceptions, to some degree, and no matter what you do there will be someone that takes it the wrong way. This is how I genuinely feel about laboratory rats, so once the image came into my head, I just drew it. If I were doing the same pic today, there is a few things I'd do differently, but the meaning would remain the same.

You're very welcome. ;3
You're a very smart cookie. ;3 lol *hugs*

rip!

Even though this is quite old, I have to put in my 2 cents worth. It's a fairly long comment, but I feel this needs to be said.

Some argue that animal t**ting is a necessary evil, but I for one, am DEEPLY traumatized by it to the point that I simply cannot, even for the life of me, find it valuable. I am so triggered that I have to censor the words to avoid giving myself flashbacks...is that pathetic or what?!?

It has caused me to self harm on a daily basis, and even nearly drove me to suicide, and THAT is severe. I don't hear of anyone else being that traumatized by it. Maybe if they were in a la* doing it, but it's something I have yet to hear from anyone else.

I cannot even stand to read comments or hear people talk about it being a "necessary evil" without having flashbacks, panic attacks to the point of screaming and nearly passing out, nightmares/night terrors, and going down that suicidal rabbit hole. I cannot, CANNOT take me**cations for either without having to traumatize myself again and go all the way back to the beginning. It. Is. Bad.

I keep telling myself that one day this abuse will come to an end, but it doesn't seem to be getting any closer. The worst part is that I even blame myself for being human as a result. ATing has harmed humans too! Other animals do not react to dr**s the same way we do, and having autism, I react differently as well. I feel like they're secretly t**sting on humans when they put these new me**cations out.

We don't just test drugs on them to see how they affect humans. I recently heard about a study where they permanently blocked the animals' CB1 receptors, preventing them from being capable of feeling pleasure and joy, an inability to overcome fear, and with shortened lifespans from stress and their anhedonia. Evolution was pretty damn cruel for giving it's creations an ability to lack pleasure, and for creating beings capable of such atrocities such as animal **permination.

So...we force them to live THEIR ENTIRE LIVES like that, only for them to die with no afterlife to have a better chance at life. Or we take monkeys away from their mothers and force them into deprivation...again just to see what will happen. It's pathetic, and I simply cannot see the point in it.

WWII was also spurred by animal rights and welfare, if my sources are correct. ANIMAL T**TING CAN, AND DOES HARM HUMANS!!!!

I do not believe we should test on humans OR other animals. I think we ought to go back to living off of nature instead, the way it was supposed to be.