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Sometimes I wonder, since this would be considered Hilde’s private life, is depicting her like this disrespectful, even though she’s entirely fictional? Or if not/so, wouldn’t stories in general just be some kind of “justified” extension of voyeurism?
Category Artwork (Traditional) / General Furry Art
Species Wolf
Size 612 x 735px
File Size 151.5 kB
*shrugs* I think voyeurism is more prevalent in society than we're willing to admit. Why else do we have reporters prying into the lives of the rich and famous? Even to the point of causing them emotional distress and trespassing on private property? People want to know. They snatch up all kinds of tidbits without one twinge of their conscious about privacy. Oh, but just try violating their privacy and be ready to hear them shriek! Very few people want to be watched, and even those who do probably don't want some crazy person getting near them.
...on the other hand, we're talking about voyeurism on a site built by furries. Last I checked, it was the submissions that run on voyeurism (and often have a blue or red border) that get the most views, favorites and comments. I kinda doubt you'll have many people up in arms over art like this. =P
...on the other hand, we're talking about voyeurism on a site built by furries. Last I checked, it was the submissions that run on voyeurism (and often have a blue or red border) that get the most views, favorites and comments. I kinda doubt you'll have many people up in arms over art like this. =P
I think it has to do with our obsessive, desperate longing to connect with people, but also our equally strong need to guard ourselves from being hurt. Stories then, both fiction and non, are a kind of space where we can explore that without the hurt "real life" can cause . . .
Fair enough. Human nature tends to be divided, and it's not fair to chalk up to sin what for some people is probably just an unmet longing. We all hunger for many things, one of the fiercest being desire for companionship. Some people just don't understand their desires very well, and it ends in heartbreak. Bit like eating junk food all the time when your body craves protein, fat, and vital nutrients.
As for stories, I think it's that we all somewhat long for a bigger story to belong to. It happens in Doctor Who. Rose can't stand the idea of going back to a simple, boring life of endless work and leisure. We all hunger for a bit of adventure, and when we get a real taste of it, there's no going back. Once the siren song grabs hold, it's over. The sea calls. Art yearns to be created. Stories cry out to be written down. And we poor mortal beings must either follow or kill any hint of desire... and thus, destroy ourselves.
Quite the conundrum, wouldn't you say?
As for stories, I think it's that we all somewhat long for a bigger story to belong to. It happens in Doctor Who. Rose can't stand the idea of going back to a simple, boring life of endless work and leisure. We all hunger for a bit of adventure, and when we get a real taste of it, there's no going back. Once the siren song grabs hold, it's over. The sea calls. Art yearns to be created. Stories cry out to be written down. And we poor mortal beings must either follow or kill any hint of desire... and thus, destroy ourselves.
Quite the conundrum, wouldn't you say?
gah, i love the sense of volume and depth your work has.
and also i do understand your view there, it varies from character to character for me, there are some i refuse to show any level of their private life, where as others are show, i know it's weird but i think it's down to the character's personality.
and also i do understand your view there, it varies from character to character for me, there are some i refuse to show any level of their private life, where as others are show, i know it's weird but i think it's down to the character's personality.
You know, the discussion and the picture have me wondering what it would be like to write a character who was aware that there was an audience/author watching her, but who enjoyed it in an exhibitionist way. Would people think she was crazy? Within the context of the narrative, would they be right?
Your point, Rick, depends on whether you think of a character as an artificial or otherdimensional being, or as a symbol. Personally, I prefer the symbol route, because I think that characters ought to be instruments of the narrative, rather than the other way around. Though there are other lines of thought.
If you prioritize empathy with the characters, then portraying their intimate moments might have the desired impact, or it might make us TOO familiar with them, or objectify the character as something we can lust after because we know her at this level. If you prioritize narrative, then it depends on whether the moment in question does anything to drive your narrative. If you prioritize character development AS the narrative, then it becomes a question of whether showing this to us really moves the character in the desired direction in the minds of the audience.
In short, regardless of your priorities, I really think that the devil is in the details, and the argument ought be less about the "rights" of the character, and instead on the objectives of the artist for the character.
If you prioritize empathy with the characters, then portraying their intimate moments might have the desired impact, or it might make us TOO familiar with them, or objectify the character as something we can lust after because we know her at this level. If you prioritize narrative, then it depends on whether the moment in question does anything to drive your narrative. If you prioritize character development AS the narrative, then it becomes a question of whether showing this to us really moves the character in the desired direction in the minds of the audience.
In short, regardless of your priorities, I really think that the devil is in the details, and the argument ought be less about the "rights" of the character, and instead on the objectives of the artist for the character.
Well the "rights" of the character are immaterial, I was wondering more about the metatextual implications--for instance, if I tell a story where the moral is "treating the lives of people as your personal toys is wrong", is that undone by the mere act of telling a story in which the characters are presented primarily for the enjoyment of the audience?
I guess to the degree they represent real people's privacy? We're not usually bound by propriety when it comes to fictional characters lives.
It's kinda hard to condense down an explanation, but it's like, our fantasy headspaces are, if we desire, completely free of negative consequences. Me drawing Hilde like this, or Hilde doing basically anything else in my head can't come back to bite her for any reason because I dictate what gets to happen to her. So I end up creating a 'safe bubble'--which is basically all fantasy is, is a safe bubble where we don't need to worry about complicating factors if we don't like.
But it might be a problem if I were to provoke people's jealousy by doing so--in making this I'm communicating an intimate scenario to other people who apply it to their own consequence-free fantasies. And some people, still growing up (like I was/am), have a hard time reconciling that--my life isn't as filled with fun sexy times as all of this! I have to face actual STRESS and PROBLEMS! Am i doing something wrong that I have to keep playing pretend in order to be happy?
Some people end up pretending that the fantasies they build in their own head MUST apply to the real world in order to spare themselves the personal responsibility for the problems they cause as a result. I won't pretend to know the exact mechanism that goes on when this happens, but as a result I think that 100% consequence-free fantasy scenarios should probably only be a sometimes thing. They inform our interests, like wanting to be more familiar with the really really cute girl in the tub--but it can be more helpful if we're 'grounded' in real life beyond just the brief fantasy scenarios.
So it's not so much that Hilde requires privacy to be respected as, I am creating a story with this character and the use of our ability to look into her private life is kinda powerful but can also be very useful.
Sorry about that wall of text, I don't even know if i accurately answered you . . .
It's kinda hard to condense down an explanation, but it's like, our fantasy headspaces are, if we desire, completely free of negative consequences. Me drawing Hilde like this, or Hilde doing basically anything else in my head can't come back to bite her for any reason because I dictate what gets to happen to her. So I end up creating a 'safe bubble'--which is basically all fantasy is, is a safe bubble where we don't need to worry about complicating factors if we don't like.
But it might be a problem if I were to provoke people's jealousy by doing so--in making this I'm communicating an intimate scenario to other people who apply it to their own consequence-free fantasies. And some people, still growing up (like I was/am), have a hard time reconciling that--my life isn't as filled with fun sexy times as all of this! I have to face actual STRESS and PROBLEMS! Am i doing something wrong that I have to keep playing pretend in order to be happy?
Some people end up pretending that the fantasies they build in their own head MUST apply to the real world in order to spare themselves the personal responsibility for the problems they cause as a result. I won't pretend to know the exact mechanism that goes on when this happens, but as a result I think that 100% consequence-free fantasy scenarios should probably only be a sometimes thing. They inform our interests, like wanting to be more familiar with the really really cute girl in the tub--but it can be more helpful if we're 'grounded' in real life beyond just the brief fantasy scenarios.
So it's not so much that Hilde requires privacy to be respected as, I am creating a story with this character and the use of our ability to look into her private life is kinda powerful but can also be very useful.
Sorry about that wall of text, I don't even know if i accurately answered you . . .
I think I get where your coming from~ Not wanting to get too lost in the fantastical in case that skews real-world perspectives and/or values? :3
-Can totally resonate with that. |3
Though, that in itself (a persons own imagination/fantasy realm is private unto themselves as well, allowing them freedom to explore aspects free of outside judgement and feel comfortable doing so) -or are you simply conscious of illustrating some of the fantastical into a real world setting, and subsequently what can say about the persons psyche? :3
When I mentioned before about being curious on your thoughts, what does the scene you have depicted say to you? (..as that is likely different from any other individuals interpretation too!)
For me;
The wolfess seems quite at home and comfortable in a daily routine scene. There might be super light ostentatious shade to her body language, though (mostly in her eyes) she just seems quite confident and comfortable in who she is.
We, the viewers this time, are privvy to this, but its not 'for' us.
To me, this is just Hilde being herself and in no way exploited against her nature/will at all :3
That being said, I recognize in myself an appreciation for form/artwork(photography also) there'of, as well as the compositions to depict a more 'honest' representation characters/people, so I may be more lenient with some un-intrusive voyeuristic tendencies ^^-;
..........people are pretty, and I have little to no hang-ups letting them know they inspire <3 (9 times outta 10, its great for outwardly bolstering others self confidence, and honestly.... who doesn't like be appreciated?) \|'>
-Can totally resonate with that. |3
Though, that in itself (a persons own imagination/fantasy realm is private unto themselves as well, allowing them freedom to explore aspects free of outside judgement and feel comfortable doing so) -or are you simply conscious of illustrating some of the fantastical into a real world setting, and subsequently what can say about the persons psyche? :3
When I mentioned before about being curious on your thoughts, what does the scene you have depicted say to you? (..as that is likely different from any other individuals interpretation too!)
For me;
The wolfess seems quite at home and comfortable in a daily routine scene. There might be super light ostentatious shade to her body language, though (mostly in her eyes) she just seems quite confident and comfortable in who she is.
We, the viewers this time, are privvy to this, but its not 'for' us.
To me, this is just Hilde being herself and in no way exploited against her nature/will at all :3
That being said, I recognize in myself an appreciation for form/artwork(photography also) there'of, as well as the compositions to depict a more 'honest' representation characters/people, so I may be more lenient with some un-intrusive voyeuristic tendencies ^^-;
..........people are pretty, and I have little to no hang-ups letting them know they inspire <3 (9 times outta 10, its great for outwardly bolstering others self confidence, and honestly.... who doesn't like be appreciated?) \|'>
I'm constantly intrigued by how our fantasies speak about our psyches. I'm not usually okay when people say that it's meaningless, because we don't really do things randomly. If we did we wouldn't have such concurrent similarities when it comes to fantasies and/or fetishes.
I drew this mainly as a method of stress relief, which prompts me to wonder why this sort of thing relieves stress at the moment. Bathtubs and showers and beds all feature in these scenarios a lot--a psychically intimate space, limited, closed, warm . . . I'm pretty sure a lot of it is womb-analagous, though in the sense that the womb ALSO represents a safe protected space. We tend to vary a lot in what we consider appropriate for such a fantasy depending on if we can entirely dissociate it from negative connotations for our fantasy headspace.
When it comes to Hilde herself, although I characterize her as a certain way for the stories, when I characterize her like this, it's a way of giving her an open, personal connection *with me*. In these cases, I'm usually more fascinated with nudity rather than out-and-out eroticism (which is why I lean toward the former even in my clean pictures rather than the latter) because nudity, at least to me, represents openness and honesty. It's also vulnerable, but when the two people involved in the situation (here, Hilde and the viewer) are at total peace with one another (and in a fantasy they can be, because nobody CAN do anything truly hurtful that can't be undone) then not only is there no hurt, in its place there's a kind of healing--hence stress release.
This sort of voyeurism can be UNDERSTOOD to be harmless, but I sometimes fear that's a bit dangerous to presume. In our own private headspaces, we can do all sorts of things to "different people" (actually extensions of ourselves) that we can never do in the real world, and if it's reinforced too much then we get more frustrated that the world is not as perfect and inviting as we shape it in our heads to be.
So, when I depict this sort of thing I try to do one of two things--make it explicitly clear that it exists inside an unreal bubble, or mix it with outward "harsh reality". That's partly why I'm writing A&H club and depicting it as I do--nobody wears any pants, and there's sex, but it's not an erotic comic. It's simply in the form it's in in order to make it "inviting".
I presume fantasy stories (the genre I mean, not the sexytimes in head) do the same thing, and they kinda have to because it seems like nearly all fantasy is about the world being utterly overcome by dark forces and people dying, and yet they're also places we want to retreat to, and not JUST to be heroic.
I drew this mainly as a method of stress relief, which prompts me to wonder why this sort of thing relieves stress at the moment. Bathtubs and showers and beds all feature in these scenarios a lot--a psychically intimate space, limited, closed, warm . . . I'm pretty sure a lot of it is womb-analagous, though in the sense that the womb ALSO represents a safe protected space. We tend to vary a lot in what we consider appropriate for such a fantasy depending on if we can entirely dissociate it from negative connotations for our fantasy headspace.
When it comes to Hilde herself, although I characterize her as a certain way for the stories, when I characterize her like this, it's a way of giving her an open, personal connection *with me*. In these cases, I'm usually more fascinated with nudity rather than out-and-out eroticism (which is why I lean toward the former even in my clean pictures rather than the latter) because nudity, at least to me, represents openness and honesty. It's also vulnerable, but when the two people involved in the situation (here, Hilde and the viewer) are at total peace with one another (and in a fantasy they can be, because nobody CAN do anything truly hurtful that can't be undone) then not only is there no hurt, in its place there's a kind of healing--hence stress release.
This sort of voyeurism can be UNDERSTOOD to be harmless, but I sometimes fear that's a bit dangerous to presume. In our own private headspaces, we can do all sorts of things to "different people" (actually extensions of ourselves) that we can never do in the real world, and if it's reinforced too much then we get more frustrated that the world is not as perfect and inviting as we shape it in our heads to be.
So, when I depict this sort of thing I try to do one of two things--make it explicitly clear that it exists inside an unreal bubble, or mix it with outward "harsh reality". That's partly why I'm writing A&H club and depicting it as I do--nobody wears any pants, and there's sex, but it's not an erotic comic. It's simply in the form it's in in order to make it "inviting".
I presume fantasy stories (the genre I mean, not the sexytimes in head) do the same thing, and they kinda have to because it seems like nearly all fantasy is about the world being utterly overcome by dark forces and people dying, and yet they're also places we want to retreat to, and not JUST to be heroic.
Hrrnm! that is rather interesting! :>
I forget where I saw/read/heard the term for another condition/tendancy in which you find comfort in confined & restriction, and google is being less than helpful pulling anything useful up right now, but know of it vaguely! :3 (...actually think I have a shade left over from baby-hood<a time in which most people actually carry this trait> myself too, in that I am a 'squish sleeper' or 'like to be super bunched-up either next to the person I share a bed with, or in sheets/blankets/etc in order to get to sleep easier. -which can be annoying for a 'too polite' Kraden before he knew to just roll my unconscious-ass away and steal back blankets. :P )
-But something you raise in that last lot, your left craving some close social/intimate connection outta life at present?
..and I kinda like the quirk the world has of 'no pants' ^^; mah brain thinks it suits a world of concealed vulnerable-bits & tails, and its a tangent that sets it apart from anything else out there :3
..also!
-wanna take this to PM? :D
I forget where I saw/read/heard the term for another condition/tendancy in which you find comfort in confined & restriction, and google is being less than helpful pulling anything useful up right now, but know of it vaguely! :3 (...actually think I have a shade left over from baby-hood<a time in which most people actually carry this trait> myself too, in that I am a 'squish sleeper' or 'like to be super bunched-up either next to the person I share a bed with, or in sheets/blankets/etc in order to get to sleep easier. -which can be annoying for a 'too polite' Kraden before he knew to just roll my unconscious-ass away and steal back blankets. :P )
-But something you raise in that last lot, your left craving some close social/intimate connection outta life at present?
..and I kinda like the quirk the world has of 'no pants' ^^; mah brain thinks it suits a world of concealed vulnerable-bits & tails, and its a tangent that sets it apart from anything else out there :3
..also!
-wanna take this to PM? :D
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