screw the vagina, i have a vigina.

Bleeeh. I'm sorry you have to put up with douche bags like this one. I can't tell you how angering it is to see artists getting treated like absolute trash. Bottom line, the furry community wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the artists.

Uhg, sorry to hear that happened to you. I will say this though, people really love your style, and I don't know anyone else who can do it quite like you. I'm sure there are still plenty that will wish they could get a character designed by you for exactly that purpose. xx;

Y como se puede reportar? Digo, para ayudar! :o

Ya lo reporte, y lo reposteo

Keep doing it! Y realmente, que abusivo ¬¬

Nah, su upload tuvo algunas cositas adicionales que me llegaron mas que los Bad Dragons de tu pata, ahora quiero verlo arder

XD!!!

Hablemos de Bad Dragons mientras que estamos en queue, pickeamos y durante el laning phase de nuestra siguiente partida de dota, sera divertidisimo

Its moments like that you should wave the DMCA take down notice wherever he posts this. Thats the simplest (well ok not really simple) complex method you can employ.

Just to be clear (and I promise I'm not stirring up sh*t, I just want to understand fully): the problem is that puffy paws will now mass produce this for $$$ for them and Blitzen, with none of that coming to you? e.g. It would be OK if Blitzen had something made just for himself, but now him and Puffy Paws are going to profit off your design?

It's more so than just the profit, Puffypaws wronged me in the past, and I don't want my designs to go through them, as simple as that, and hence my condition

I see. I just read your journal about leaving Puffypaws; clearly it wasn't working for you at all. Thanks for filling me in though .

Welp. :/

I only just heard about this yesterday when I was speaking with jac. I can't believe some people would go through with something and then deliberately go out of their way to pretty much void the the terms and conditions about said 'something'.... x.x;

Sounds like a giant pile of annoyances to me. :/ Hopefully you can get it all taken down, and deal with it all as you see fit. If you don't want your designs being used, and haven't granted permission for such, I'd say that's entirely fair.

Fight the stupidity! And sue his ass!

Rawr, you're a great artist with an awesome and distinctive style. That being said, you need to quit acting like a self entitled child and dragging your clients into your personal drama with Puffy. While I agree that some of the peeps over at PP are douche's, that does not give you the right to drag other people into your BS. Unless you have a signed contract, Blitzen is free to do whatever he wants with art he comissions. So what if he broke a verbal promise, which I will agree is pretty disgraceful whatever the reason. He shouldn't have been put into such a position to begin with. Keep your drama between you & PP between you & PP and quit dragging others into it.

I'm sorry, but said client agreed to my terms before thoroughly disregarding them

What drama? He posted a condition for that commission before money and art could ever exchange hands. All he had to do was NOT do the thing. Also, what Blitzen did is NOT an ok thing. Especially when it comes to making and selling a product Rawr had to put the hours in to design and gets nothing out of it but yet another connection with a company he specifically asked not to get associated with, and they are not the only people out there doing this stuff. If someone agrees to do work for you under certain conditions, damn right he should be able to fight that, especially with Blitzen's attitude towards breaking that rule. all he wants is not what others want, and that extremely selfish atittude is what put him in the position he is in now.

Yo uh not to rain on your parade or anything but this is how the freelancer industry deals with this sort of problem. Its not "cau~using dra~ama," its warning other freelancers to stay the hell away from this guy, he screwed me, and he'll probably screw you. Its also a warning to other shitty people, who will look at this and say "wow I'd better not try anything shitty with this guy, it'll shut down a lot of opportunities for me."

Welcome to the industry. Enjoy your stay.

"I'm sorry, but said client agreed to my terms before thoroughly disregarding them" I completely agree. If Blitzen did not want to adide by your terms he should not have agreed to them. I am not taking sides on this but instead trying to look at it from all angles and be objective. What Blitzen did was a very douchtastic dick move and wrong. You're young, so I don't expect what an old wolf like me is about to say to make much sense for a while. Life is far too short and precious to be / stay butthurt and waste time and energy on negative emotions. If you're not careful, they will eat you up inside. What happened between you and Puffy 2 years ago happened and there's no undoing it. You can either brush the dust off your feet and move on with your life, or let bitterness devour you. That being said, what happened between you and Puffy Paws is between you and no one else. It is very chilish, immature, and petulant to drag other people into the drama between you by trying to stipulate conditions based on something thats between you and someone else. Blitzen paid for a comission, and under copyright law it is his to do with as he pleases. I'm not saying what he did was OK, but I can't in good conscience agree with your actions either. If you want to impose such conditions I think thats pretty douchtastic on your part. If you are serious about controlling whats done with art you do for others, you do always have the option of a signed, legal and binding, thus enforcable, contract outlining terms of copyright and who may or may not use the art. In the absence of such a contract you really can't do much about it and pretty much forfeit any right to complain about what people do with art they comission.

[q]What drama? He posted a condition for that commission[/q]Drama that happened between Rawr and Puffy Paws 2 years ago. The same drama that is the basis for what I think is a bullshit condition.

TLDR: Your both wrong and acting like petulant children.

Even if it's drama or bullshit or whatever you want to call it, a condition is a condition

Then get a signed contract next time if it's THAT important to you.

Also, FWIW, you ARE one of the best damn inflatle artists I know of. If I can ever afford to get a inflatable version of my fursona done (strictly as 2D art) I hope this lil bit of drama wouldn't get me on your "Do not draw for" list. As I said before, I'm not taking sides on this and think you're both wrong. Personally, I have my own list of complaints about Puffy AKA Ipaquay AKA Brian, but I would not let that cause so much hurt and vile bitterness that I would waste valuable energy on being / staying butthurt or worrying about who does business with them. It's toxic and poisionous to do so.

a signed contact won't do shit any more than a verbal one will, he's not free of guilt because it wasn't written.

"he's not free of guilt because it wasn't written.' I never said he was and have stated their both wrong.

I don'T know how it is working in the USA but in other countries a verbal contract is also a contract afaik...

FWIW, Blitzen did apologize and admit he was wrong.

I'm crying tears

Sarchasm FTW!!! Serriously though, what happened with PP AKA Pretentious Assholes Inc. happened. Move on with your life before bitterness eats you alive and spits you out as a shell of yourself.

So, besides reporting this to IYR and calling me Wah, what are you getting out of this anyway? Attention?

TBH, I get nothing out of it. I call shit as I see it. I'm a wolf by nature and thus I consider the fandom as a whole as part of my pack. It's in my nature to stand up for peeps when I see them being unfairly criticised or takin advantage of as I instinctively want to protect my pack. In this case I don't agree with either of you and think you both have a lot of growing up to do. Last I checked you were both supposed to be mature adults. Please act like it. Granted, I should stay out of shit. My human side hates the drama but my wolf side wants to protect what it cares about. I don't know either of you other than as nmes on forums, but as your both parts of groups I care a great deal about the peacekeeper in me wants to try and resolve issues. It's probably more truble than it's worth. I guess that makes me crazy for trying to be objective and hope we can all find common ground eh?? And the wah comment could easily apply to both you and Blitzen. You're the one dragging clients into drma between you and Puffy and that should stayy between you and Puffy and no one else, so thus acting like the bigger cry baby. Do I loathe Puffy Paws, yes, I do. Can I keep my personal feelings and business dealings separte. Yes. The bottom line is, personal issues are personal and business is business. I keep the two separate even if they apply to the same person. At least Blitzen apologized and admitted he was wrong which says something about his character AFAIC. I'm not defending what he did, nor what you did, just saying you need to move on with your life.

So, your best course of action is to call me names in a place I can't see, very mature of you, I should learn from your example

Well, you seem to be able to see it since you know about it. AFAIK you're on there, or were at some point. I will admit I was out of line. Is so much drama really necessary though? This issue is between you and Puffy, no one else. If it's THAT important to you to have some sort of control over who uses your art, get a contract made and have people sign it. It should filter out those who don't intend to keep their promises from those who do. I try to be objective and fair in my criticisms, and admitedly am wrong sometimes. I think you are both acting like children though. You for something that happened 2 years ago, and Blitzen for not being man enough to keep his promise. Please note the first reply I made in the thread on IYRU where I tore him a new hole for breaking said promise. I care a great deal about my furry, plush, and inflates families. It breaks my heart to see the inflates community tear it's self apart over so much pety bullshit and poisionous feelings. We have lost so many good people due to drama. I am sorry if I hve offended you, I just wish we could learn to have a brush off and move on with life. If everyone did that, there would be so much less drama and caustic feelings. Family is important to me. As much as you my not like it, I consider almost everyone in the inflates, plush, and furry coimmunities family. So, I try to help mediate issues for the sake of helping opthers to see other points of view. It seems I am one of the few that refuses to take sides or play favorites for the sake of trying and reach some sort of understabding and commonality.

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Dunno, I ask you, is it really worth it to do this much drama, Phaedra? Aren't you the one doing all this shit? Or you just felt the urge to shit all over me like Blitzen did this morning and now are feeling guilty over it?

If you look at the first post I made in that thread, I tore blitzen a new hole. That would require an account to see though. Ask whoever is giving you would info for that post OK, instead of them picking and choosing what posts of mine to show you. Or, better yet, look for your self so you can see whats realy being said instead of believing half truths from a troll.

What it's sounding like is that you'd like the attention of taking a stance, but you'd like to avoid putting yourself on a shitlist with either party. So it comes off as you riding the fence ridiculously hard.

Break down the wall of text into a point or two, and stop calling the both of them out. And stop giving people shit over agreed-on terms and conditions. Freelance people have enough to deal with without some indecisive white knight telling them how to run their business.

'you'd like to avoid putting yourself on a shitlist with either party'I don't know either of them well enough to give a shit as their both little more than screen names to me. I am aproaching it more from anas I see it perspective. I think their both wrong. Rawr for being so hung up on something that happened 2 years ago, and Blitzen for being a backstabing douche. Theres your 2 points. Happy?

So why do you care then? Because you're so goddamn furry that you've adopted a pack mother mentality?
Seek help. Please.

"Because you're so goddamn furry that you've adopted a pack mother mentality? " Pretty much. I don't like seing communities I care about and friendships destroyed over pety, pointless drama. I take it you're the one on there with te random alpha-numaeric string?

Please elaborate on "there". I have no idea which "there" you speak of. There's several of them across the internet.

Oh, and FWIW, I'm a freelance IT consultant that does sales, netowrking, and network security analasys. I know all too well what a PITA freelancing is, as well as the rewards over a 9 to 5 job.

Then you of all people should understand how much of a pain in the ass it is when someone doesn't uphold their end of the terms and conditions. And how is it your place to judge when he should let shit go? Are you and him of the same mindset?

Yes I do understand. I also realize tht I can not afford to let what happened in the past with someone else poisen current busines relationships based on what may or may not happen with what I do. I know it's not easy to forgive someone when ty
they do you wrong. As I said, Puffy Paws is on my shit list to for many of the same reasons, and others. I have forgiven them for their asshatery, but I can never forget. Letting what happened in the past dictate the present is at the very least unprofessional. As Rawr told Blitz, it's purely a business relationship. If thats the case and he got paid his asking price for his work, than thats the end of it. Does it make what Blitz did acceptable. Certainly not. A person is nothing without their word of honer as far as I'm concerned.

So, then, uh, you're pretty much just here to tell people "HEY QUIT ALL THAT BAD FEELINGS" then?

Like, for real what are you gaining here?

I want to understand the situation and Rawrs side of things and why he's spent to years hating so hardcore. I will admit that I could be wrong. With what limeted info I currently have I don't have a complete picture.

Maybe I can explain it in very small words.

So these Puffypaw dudes, they fucked Rawr over pretty hard. Like "Fuck this, I don't really want to do these designs ever again" hard.

Blitzen convinces Rawr, "c'mon man just do this one for me."

Rawr does the job, under one, SINGULAR condition. Don't bring this design to those guys that fucked me, I don't want them making money on something I made ever again.

Blitzen swears up and down, "oh yeah totally, I'd never do that, ever, yeah."

Blitzen's alternate maker flakes out on him. So instead of finding another maker, he goes fucking directly to Puffypaws, breaking the SINGULAR condition that Rawr gave him. Blitzen had ONE JOB.

And now you're in his grill saying "I don't get it, you sold it to him, he can do what he wants with it, what's the problem here?"

The problem is that somebody ELSE fucked him, and to add insult to injury he fucked him in collusion with a group of OTHER people who fucked him.

"So these Puffypaw dudes, they fucked Rawr over pretty hard. Like "Fuck this, I don't really want to do these designs ever again" hard."

I don't doubt that. I do wonder what could be so horrible that it would warrant 2 years of hate and all the health side effects that can result from negative emotions.

"I don't want them making money on something I made ever again.'

If they owe him money or customs I completely get that. It's no secret that some of the guys at Puffy Paws are jack asses.

"Blitzen swears up and down, "oh yeah totally, I'd never do that, ever, yeah."

As I have said over and over, there is no excuse for breaking a promise and shows serious character deficiencies on Blitzens part.

"Blitzen's alternate maker flakes out on him"

Actually, Blitzen got tired of waiting for a call back, which eventually came, and decided to contact Puffy thinking he could get quicker results. That makes Blitzen an even bigger douche.

"I don't get it, you sold it to him, he can do what he wants with it"

I admit, I don't know everything about comissioned art. In my own experience, every artist I have ever comissioned or asked to comission has granted me full copyright and privelege to do what I want with it, with the only request (not requirement) being that I give them full credit as the artist if I post it anywhere.

So we're basically entirely on the same page, and you are actually vehemently agreeing with everyone except you still want to win a fight or something? I'm confused now.

Like, an oathbreaker delivered Rawr's goods into the service of wicked men, thats as much as there is to discuss.

Well, I initially saw what I percieved as someone being unfairly railroaded over something he was not involved with 2 yers ago. It seemed to me that Rawrs posting this pic was an over the top and self entitled response to what I thought was something as simple as a broken promise. Over the last 6 hours I have learned more and realize mt initial position was based on incomplete info and that I was wrong. I couldn't care less about winning or loosing, I just hate seing people getting picked on and thats what I thought was happening to Blitzen.

Now that you see that this is not the case, your battle here is clearly over.

Good day.

Yup. I just hope that I havn't destoyed an friendships I could have made. Is it me, or does the inflates community have more drama than plush and furry combined? Pity that. It's too small to be always figting so much.

OH AND THE GOSSIP, let's not forget about the gossip!

lol Thanks...I think. I try to stay neutral and present my views from both sides of a situation and be objective and fair. I admit, refering to Rawr as Wah was out of line and uncalled for. I'm sorry Rawr. I hope I can still one day commission a con badge from you, despite our aparant disagreement. If that's not possible, so be it. I'll just have to settle for some less awesomwly talented inflatafur artist.

While I completely agree with your dislike of Puffy Paws, here's a question. Since not everyone knows how to go to or that you can go to Jets directly (yes, Blitz started with Jets and got in a rush waiting for an answer so he went to Puffy. A very STUPID move since Puffy goes through Jets anyways., G&G seem to be out of the game, and IW uses thin, yet lusciously soft, pinch seamd designs, who do you suggest we go to other than Puffy Paws to get our squeaky friends made? I'm open to suggestions. Also, I have your amazingly awesome green drawgie from sitting next to me. Her names Kiyasha and she never gets deflated unless I'm transporting her to / from a cons. She is very cute and one of my favs so props to you on her design.

"You're young, so I don't expect what an old wolf like me is about to say to make much sense for a while. Life is far too short and precious to be / stay butthurt and waste time and energy on negative emotions"

"quit acting like a self entitled child"

"what happened between you and Puffy Paws is between you and no one else"

"I hope this lil bit of drama wouldn't get me on your "Do not draw for" list"

I see you learned to use quotation marks as well as cut / paste. Congrats. Is there a point to your post?

you're a terrible person and you shouldn't be talking at all.

lol Would you like to qualify that statement? The worlds an ugly place. It's a shame we add to it in our communities with pointless bickering, backstabbing, and hate, as well as unwillingness to forgive. If being neutral and wanting peeps to get along and respect each other makes me terrible, then I am guilty as charged.

being neutral doesn't mean insulting everyone. that's just the punchline to a joke. Are you a joke?

Lol, if calling people out on their shit and stating why I think ntheir werong is insulting then I guess I'm insulting. It's not like I am going out of my way to call anyone names, refuse to acknowlage Raws grievences, or am saying it's completlet his fault. It takes 2 to tango, or in this case 3 (Puffy, Rawr, Blitzen). Still, it's caustic and poisenous to be so emotionally vested in something that happened 2 years ago.

says the one who can't stop complaining and repeating himself to a group that doesn't care.

lol Big diff between standing by a conviction, admitely based on limited info, and spending 2 years hating someone.

nope, they were from your posts after all

BTW, I love your avatar. It's cute. Might I ask who the artist is? Thanks.

I don't draw :I don't try to get free art from me or something

I never saidyou draw. I asked who drew your avatar. Free art? Are you crazy?? An artists time is worth something so I would never ask for free art.

Apparently not worth enough, as all the effort Rawr spent is being thrown away casually by a total of two people, one being you.

Heh, comissioned art is a fickle business at best, especially when the one being comissioned tries to put conditions on what can be done with the work he's comissioned to do. Honestly, I don't blame Rawr for being upset. After what Puffy did to him then being stabbed in the back by Blitzen. Being emotionally removed from the situation, I guess I just see it differently since I don't have emotions getting in the way of objectivity. For Christ sake though, that thing with Puffy was 2 years ago. Move on with your life already Rawr instead of being stuck in the past. You're scaring so much potential business away that couldnt care less about getting a custum inflate of their own made. I think the whole idea of getting a fursona of ones self is creepy personally. lol

emotionally removed? . . . you kinda made small jabs at him (not counting the off site of here big insults) while you tried to explain things

I pointed out why I think he's wrong. And I acknowlage that yes, he was fucked over by Puffy and Blitzen and has every right to be upset, but Puffy was 2 years ago. 2 years is a lot of time and energy to waste on hate. I don't think it's a pleasant emothion, so I have trouble grasping why Rawr has wasted 2 years of energyu hanging on to it. Negative emotions have been linked to heart disease, ullcers, digestive tract issues, cancer, etc. It's certainly not worth it to spend two years so focused on hating someone. At least, not for me. If rawr want to poisen himself that way though, it's his choice. I just wish we could learn to forgive and get along as a community. I know that makes me an idealistic fool.

there's no reason to "let go" of a business-based failing like you would "let go" of some guy being a jerk to you on the internet. It's very different.

I admit that I don't have all the info and could be wrong. All I know is something about nhim not getting paid for his designs 2 years ago or some such ant the recent Blitzen drama. If you would like to complete the puzzle for me I would appreciate it. Unfortunately, I only have the info I mentioned to go on so yea, I may not knopw the whole situation and welcome an oportunity to be corrected and learn.

you said "I don't expect what an old wolf like me is about to say to make much sense for a while"

"And the wah comment could easily apply to both you and Blitzen"

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and stop saying emotionally detached when you been at this for 6 hours and end convo with people or back away when you don't have a way to back up claims like with rawr &, nemo
is having the last word so important to you that you do it to the point of getting yourself in a corner?

sorry, i would have said its from a game, but its realllllly hard for me to take this seriously after reading everything ontop of how quickly you are to change subject when in a position where your less able to back up claims, I just can't take this seriously so that was just trolling :I

Sorry, I was trying to break the tention. As I said, I am emotionally removed from the sitution so it's easy for me to switch gears. My apologies.

honestly he kept this under wraps for a while and i heard issues going back months. I honestly fully support rawr on this because lets face it, the usual furry would be hands on knees crying for attention the first chance they get. There is only so much someone can take before they have to let it go. In the end calling rawr a cry baby and an attention seeking whore is ridiculous.

I was raised with the philosophy of a man is only as good as his word and that a hand shake seals a deal. I am pragmatic though and know all too well how important paperwork is. I'n my business dealings as a freelance IT consultant, I have no one but myself to blame if a deal goes sideways because something was not spelled out in a signed contract. Likewise, Rawr has been in the scene long enough that he should have figured out two years ago that without some formalized agreement in writing detailing things clearly and concisely, then signed, people can not be trusted. It is due to his not learing from past mistakes that smy ability to feel sorry for him is signifigantly diminished. If I were to ever comission Rawr I would gladly sign a contract. Thean again, wolf stands for family, honer, integrity, loyalty, honesty, and humility. I never called Rawr an attention whore. I did call both parties petulant children and cry babies. If they don't like being called that they should act accordingly. They are both wrong in this. Rawr is not new to the scene and learned long ago that short of a signed contract, agreements are meaningless. What Blitz did is wrong, I do not argue that. If it was THAT important to Rawr to have some degree of control over what he draws for others though, he should have had a signed contract. Period. That in no way excuses what Blitz did though. They are both wrong. They both made mistakes. Whats done is done though. As I said, we can move on from what happened 2 years ago, or let bitterness eat us alive. I gues Rawr like being eaten alive since he didn't learn from past mistakes and seems to prefer being bitter about something that took place two years ago. I do not want Rawr as an enemy and an hoping, despite my neutral stance, we can be friends some day, or at least decent aquaintances. He's a tremendously talented artist and I would hate to se him quit drawing because of pety bullshit like this. Unfortunately, he seems to let ego / butt hurt / poor planning of agreements keep him from reaching his full potential. Granted, he's alread one of the best squeaky artists out there so I'm not sure if it is possible to improve upon that. I will say though that many peeps are terrified to comission him though because they don't want to loose his friendship over the drama thats between him and Puffy. Theres others like myself that have wanted to comission him for a long time for personal art, not to be made into actyal squeakies. His attitude comes across and brash, boreish, and hot headed though and is off-putting and intimidating. I don't think he intends it that way, but it's how he comes across.

i didn't mention anything to do with contracts what so ever...

i just put my two cents in and that's that.

[q]i didn't mention anything to do with contracts what so ever.[/q]I know. I was pointing out that Rawr has been down this road a few times and should have learned from his mistakes and gone with a contract. Creative types tend to be more left brained and thus have a harder time leeping papers if my step dad is anything to go by. His inability to devolop, get signed, and file a scope statement when he had his landscaping got him in so much trouble because clients would take advantage of the lack of such a contract. I learned from him growing up how important keeping papers is. I do not dislike Rawr or have any ill toward him. I just do not agree with him forcing his predjeduces against puffy paws, whom I do not like myself for many of the same reasons as him, on his clients and feel that a lot of his problems like this can be solved with a scope statement which is a type of contract. Something to the effect of "I Rawr AKA (insert legal name] hereby agee to do a comission of [describe comission in detail] for Blitzen AKA [insert legal name] under the following conditions. [insert conditions]. Sign, send to blitzen to sign, have a witness sign at both ends, noterize, file.

And then what? If he makes a paper contract with someone ACROSS THE FUCKING INTERNET WHO CAN'T SIGN IT what then? It's just a paper that sits there. You'll still be bitching. it means nothing, it holds nothing. at this point you're only nitpicking

there is most likely more than just having a talk to fix issues, just stop while you can acting like you know everything when you don't plus your passive aggressive stance is really irritating me trying to act neutral after seeing those screen caps.

"after seeing those screen caps.' Why don't you go there and read all my posts then, instead of believing only a few carefully selected messages chosen by a troll. The first thing I did in that thread was rebuke Blitzen for what he did before saying anything about Rawr. Go on, go read, or does the truth of what you'll find intimidate you?

judging by how you constantly swap sides acting aggressive than calm again why should i lol, i got all the evidence i need just in this post alone ignoring those screen caps.

[Swapping sides? I have said all along that I think their both worng. I'm not on anyones side. You will believe what you want to believe though. Message #135656 was my first post on the subject and this is a direct quote "

There are a few problems I can see with this from both sides. First of all, unless the agreement was in the form of a signed contract Rawr needs to quit acting like an entitled chiled and realize that an art comission is the property of the person comissioning it to do with as they please. Second, if Blitzen did promise to not go through PP, even w/o a contract, it's pretty lousy of him to not keep his word. I was raised with the belief that a man is only as good as his word. If someone goes back on their word, it shows a lot of character deficiencies in the man, and a lack of trustworthyness."

As you can see, I think their both in the wrong.

and you can stop fucking calling people entitled children like it's your wildcard, this is a more serious matter than "children" ever deal with, and he's dealing with it appropriately. being paid to make something doesn't give the one making the payment free reign over everything, and a written contract isn't even necessary to validate his concerns. You're awful, and you continue to be so. Don't pretend to be neutral when you clearly want something unrealistic and gratuitous of Rawr and you sling insults like you're getting a dime per word.

Actually, in the world of comissioned art, the one paying gets all the coyrights on it or shared copyright. I pretend nothing and am indeed neutral. Both Blitzend and Rawrs attituded, and those of anyone who cant remove themself from taking sides and seing the situation objectively, stink. I do not need or ask your aproval or acceptance for taking a neutral stance and calling out both on their bullshit. If you have any bollocs you'll go to IYRU and actually READ what I said, or at least open your eyes and not be so one sided. Moving on with ones life from something that happened in the past and not letting it dictate how you treat current businsees relationships is not uinrealistic or gratuatous, it's the real world. If some one does not want to be called apetulant child, they should not act like one.

No, it's actually your view that's unrealistic. Puffypaws has been a shitty business for rawr. it's deeper than the kind of shit you're trying to pin on him, and it's pathetic that you'd lower his problems to such an insignificant level.

The people that run puffypaws are shitty people. Aphorx with his stack of vixens the he has pretended to have lack of time to work on for 4 years. Ipiquay, who was once a decent person and has let popularity got to his head. I don't pretend to know all the details about what happened between Rawr and Puffy. It has been asked a few times on here and Rawr has stayed silent on it. I only have what I have seen and know of to comment on. My picture is no dowbt incomplete so would you mind filling in the blanks? All I know of is this recent bit of drama and something that happened 2 years ago about Rawr not getting paid for his work he did for Puffy or somesuch. I am m=willing to admit, based on my limited info, I could be quite wrong. Unfoutunately, in the asence of any other info it's all I have to go on. So please, set me right. I could be wrong, I don't deny that possibility.

I don't have much to go on either but it's kind of a problem that happened on a professional level, alright? in fact if my vague recollection (which I still kind of don't trust) is true, it's strikingly similar to what's happening now. But I could be wrong.

lol How ironic that you call me a terrible person just because I have an opinion, admitedly based on an incomplete picture, when you yourself don't have all the facts. Pot calling the kettle black? I don't have any ill feelings toward you or Rawr or anyone thats posted here. I just though Blitzen was being unfairly picked on based on what info I had. So, I welcome being enlightened and having the gaps filled in if anyone knows.

The difference is I'm not using my lack of information to shit on people you pompous fool. Fuck off from the internet and never come back if this is how you act. "I don't have any ill feelings"

THEN STOP FUCKING TALKING LIKE YOU DO. This is all you're doing! Just hanging around here, where you've clearly not been wanted for the several hours you've been here, repeating yourself like a broken record and being fairly hostile about it, on a level that goes beyond being "neutral".

If I'm a troll why do you keep feeding me? I saw, what appeared to be, Blitzen being railreaded over an incident that he was not involved with 2 years ago. I took a stance to try and defend him because quite frankly, our community is destroying it's self with so much constant and betty bickering. I'm sick of it and wish we could all put out diferences aside and get along. Over the last 6 hours I have learned that the issue goes much deeper than a simpl;e backstabbing by Puffy Paws and Blitzen and that the woulnds Puffy inflicted are the kind tht don't heal so easily. I took this new info and used it to re-evaluate my own position and asked for a more complete picture and am inclined to feel for Rawr.

I didn't consider you a troll, I considered you stupid. That's different. You don't seem to have a handle on the way you speak at all and the worst part is that you're oblivious to it.

[q]ACROSS THE FUCKING INTERNET WHO CAN'T SIGN IT[/q]In the 21st century signing contracts over a wire is quite common place. At the very least, it would be enforcable in the two countries of the parties that signed it and give Rawr legal backing if he did want to persue a lawsuit.

Granted, this is the real world and contracts should not be needed. Unfortunately, people can not be trusted to keep their word of honer and anyone who thinks so is naive. The guilt is shared between Blitzen and Rawr. In the end though, Blitzen should not have agreed to the terms if he did not intend to keep them and certainly should not have broken his promise. Likewise, Rawr should not be so hung up on two years ago that it poisens his current business relations. It's a fucked up situation all around with no winners, except maybe Puffy and Jets who are profiting from all the backstabery.

you sound like a broken record now just hush up x3

plus a contract doesn't matter, if its broken you have to go to court which obviously the costs for that outweigh what happens so there you go

"f its broken you have to go to court which obviously the costs for that outweigh what happens so there you go" Very true. A written contract tends to keep more peeps in check though.

keep your own fucking self in check then you hypocrite. you can't be aware of this thing that you're saying and still act like what you're describing, now shut up and don't be part of the problem.

*chuckles*nAs you admitted, you artent aware of all the details either. I'm hoping we are all calm now and can act civily with out resorting to name calling.

...Says the one saying rawr (and blitzen I guess??? you really don't seem as adamant about that one) is acting like a child.

Their both acting like children based on my limited info. Blitzen isn't making as much of a fus over it though. I don't doubt something deep and tragic happened between Rawr and Puffy happened and left deep wounds. Some wounds just can't heal. I would appreciate having a more complete picture though. Based on what I know of Puffy, I'd probably be pretty sympathetic to Rawr even if I knr=ew what happened.

it's not even about the law, it's about not being a super shitty person, and this isn't a fucking forum, so stop trying to make quotes like a retard even though you already know it doesn't work that way

Actually, this is my first time engaging in a discussion here so I apologise if quoting is frowned upon. And yes, what Blitzen did is shitty, it's also shitty to dictate what someone can or can not do with comissioned art. Rawr is the only person I know of who does that. Did Puffy Paws do him wrong. Yes. Byt why waste time and energy being so hung up on the past and trying to dictate to customers what can or can not be done with the work they pay you for? Hate and bitterness are waisted emotions and causted to ones self. If Rawr could elaborate on that I'll shut the fuck up and go watch TV OK. I live my life by a simple philosophy. Do no harm. Help those in need to the best of your ability. Be real and dont hide behind a mask and false image. Defend the weak. And above all, be honest and honerable.

no, it's not frowned upon, i mean it literally doesn't work. nothing happens. this isn't a forum, there's no bbcode or anything. you're just adding more text. If you want to quote someone, use literal quotation marks and separate it from your own text.

Sorry about that. I'm so used bbcode. Up until today I have only lurked on FA with the occasional fave, watch, or shout. I knew nothing about how it's messaging, chat, whaever you call it works.

Time to have a seat Phaedra.

It's this exact disregard for terms of service (something that most professional artists have on FA and elsewhere, btw) and agreements that brought this situation to light. Artists have TOS and agreements for a multitude of reasons, none of which are any of your business. You want the art? You agree to the artist's terms, and abide by them. If you breach the TOS or agreement (regardless of being verbal, written, or whatever), then you get called out on it.. eventually enough people take notice and won't want to deal with you. There's nothing shitty about terms of service. You want to spend your money on art that you don't have to abide by terms on, and do whatever you want to with it? Then go spend your money elsewhere.

I've commissioned Rawr many, many times, and never had a problem with his TOS. How many times have you commissioned him, yet you call him shitty on his own page?

These artists work hard and give us the privilege of our characters coming to life in works of art, fursuit, and even toys. Please don't ruin it for the majority who appreciate it because you and a couple of people think you should do what you want and cry when they lay down a few simple rules.

Show some respect.

It sounds like your simple philosophy requires you to sit down, and let what is happening run its course.

You are being awful vocal for somebody whose philosophy requires them to do this.

I don't pretend to know how TOS work on here Dario. What I do know is, in my experience anyways, when I comission an artist I am paying for their time and tallent. In every case I have been granted full copyright and privelage to do with the art as I please with the only request being that I give them credit as the artist if I repost it anywhere. Also, I did not call him shitty, I said I felt his attitude was shitty. I have also acknowlaged his grievences and said I agree that Blitzen should have kept his promise. Unfortunately, the vast majoity of people have no concept of honer and integrity and will go back on their word in the absence of a signed contract. It sucks, but it's the world we live in and is a vile filthy place full of backstabbing assholes, hence why I have very lillte love for humanity as a whole. I have wanted to comission him but this whole thing between him and puffy has made me leery of doping so. I appreciate the artists and most of my friends are the artists, fursuit makers, fursuiters, scupters, etc you speak of. I admit, my view of the situation is based on an incomplete picture. A few times Rawr has been asked by others to fill in the blanks. In the absence of that info, I only have the limited info I now posess to go on.

"You are being awful vocal for somebody whose philosophy requires them to do this." Sorry, from the Info I have to work with it looks like Btitzen is being railroaded over something that happened 2 years ago between Puffy & Rawr. I welcom any info on Rawrs sise about what happened since it seems Puffy did something pretty horrible. I seek understanding.

OK while I'm not Dario I can probably field this one. Just because you, yourself, have only purchased full-copyright artwork (which by the way is something that has to be explicitly spelled out if you're going to use it for commercial work, since in absence of explicit rights transfer, the rights remain with the artist. If the artist has a mind to do so, you can be taken to court for this and you will not win, as anything in text can be used as evidence of "a written contract"), this does not mean this is the only way to purchase art. Right of use, right of commercial use, and right of ownership are all very different things, and just because you have right of use does not mean you have right of ownership.

Anyway. Onto the part that was directed at me.

As I mentioned before, an oathbreaker delivered Rawr's goods into the service of wicked men.

Wicked men do not suddenly stop being wicked. They are wicked, which is why we call them "wicked men." Two years ago, they were wicked men. Today as we speak, they are wicked men. Two years from now, they will be wicked men. Twenty years from now, they will be wicked men still.

If you would beg a person's forgiveness on behalf of wicked men, you had first best figure out what these wicked men did for you to earn your loyalty. And then, and this is just what I would do, I would not declare the person's wrongness and demand their obedience without knowing a damn thing about what is going on around you. When rebuffed, I would then not stand around like a dazed ape, demanding somebody explain it to you in excruciating detail. It has been explained to you. Please re-read what has been explained to you, instead of again declaring that you are missing data, or somehow do not understand what is happening. Re-read it until you DO understand what is happening.

Then, and only then, will you understand what is happening.

Do this for me.

Wow, I never fathomed commisioned art could be so convoluted and complicated. From what I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Rawr and Puffy used to be good friends which would explain why the wounds run so deep. To be betrayed by a close friend is the worst. Once they suddenly got popufur with the Husky and Wolf they changed for the worse. They basicly told Rawr to go fuck himself and they owed him nothing because they knew they could get away with it. I don't douibt they are wicked. Many of their former friendswho I'm friends with have distanced themselves. Aphorx does commissions on the sly for people he likes despite having a couple dozen vixens he's had 4 years claiming lack of time to work on them, And a disturbing pattern of product releases. G&G release a wolf and a few days later PP releases one. Sorry I still love Shakirh (PP wolf) with all my being. The plesiodrake is announced and PP releases there sea dragon which looks similar a few days later. Kitutal releases his Griffen for pre oder and a wew days later gets a cease and desist claiming it's their design, theres one or two other instasnces where they released a similar product a day or two after someone else but I can't remember what they were.

SIX HOURS this man has been here, giving his "neutral" stance on things (weighted towards Rawr hate). But he's not emotionally invested.

During those six hours I have learned more about the situation and have re-evaluated my opinion. More info would be appreciated, but nothing I could be told about Puffy Paws would surprise me. I did not know that the wounds ran so deep or how fucked up the situation between Rawr and Puffy was. Before I thought they just commissioned Rawr for a few designs and negleted to pay him. I was not aware it was more complex and involved than that. I saw what I felt was someone being railroaded and had a knee-jert protective response. I should have asked "Yo Rawr, whats up with all the hate and drama?? Dousn't our lil community have enough issues w/o fighting ofer not getting paid for a few comissions 2 years ago? Whats the deal? Enlighten me." I would like to apologize to anyone I have offended, especially you Rawr, and say I was wrong to have such a knee jerk reaction with out knowing more.

Well yeah, more asking and less pointing would've been great

"After a very informative and lively discussion on FA, I realize my initial position was wrong. Blitzen, what you did is tanamount to deliberately rubbing salt in a very old and very deep wound that has not healed. I don't think that was your intention, but you did make a promise and broke it. That shows serious character deficiencies in you."

I was wrong and I'm sorry guys. I hope there's no permanant hard feelings, but understand if there are.

Dunno if i believe him fully. obviously wasn't directly involved.

and at the beginning he tries to defend himself a bit much but he dose apologise and say he's a dick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbpz.....ature=youtu.be

Hey why not create your own company, only you, and you only? Or find some very trustworthy people to help you. And make sure they don't f*ck you over. I'm sure you will get over this in due time.

That kind of attitude is nothing new on FA.

As much as I love Puffypaws I kinda hate how they take your design and just keep it for later uses, they should at least now and then give you revenue off their toys :3