FA+
Shop
360
Views
Views
2
Favorites
Favorites
Category
All / All
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 1000 x 478
File Size 157.8 kB
Report this content
More from Saara
This is a coin with a story. No, two stories...
The first is my discovery of it a couple of weeks ago. The other story is about it's importance in Jewish history.
There's a small inconsequential coin & stamp shop in my neighborhood. It rarely has much of interest to me, but on the last visit the owner showed me some new acquisitions. There were a few Sassanid drachmas worth $40 or $50 each, some Elizabethan silver in the same price range, a large Hellenistic bronze I could make nothing of, and another bronze coin about the size of an Eisenhower dollar that caught my eye immediately. It was obviously a Roman sesterius, always of interest, but the face was a familiar and exciting one. There is no mistaking Vespasian's bulldog portrait, nor his son's. The two are difficult to distinguish in fact, though in general Titus is a younger looking man. You look for a "T" in the inscription. "IMP T CAES VESP". His father rarely included it, though they were both identically named Titus Flavius Sabinus Vespasianus. Another give-away are the offices held by each. As I would discover in research later, the father was never consul for an VIIIth. time but Titus was.
Still, as exciting as finding a Titus sesterius for sale, I was more astonished when I turned it over and discoverd the figures of a mourning woman on her knees, and a captive man with his hands bound behind his back, standing to either side of a palm tree. The inscription was blurred but knowing by now what to expect I could easily read it as "Judea Capta".
The Judea Capta series was struck by Vespansian and his son to commemorate Titus's victory over the last Jewish rebellion, and the destruction of the temple. The temple of Solomon was the absolute focus of the Jewish religion, and even today many believe Israel isnot truly restored until temple is rebuilt Highly sought after by Jews as well as coin collectors, his was potentially a $3,000 coin.
I casually asked the price. Unfortunately he hadn't set one yet. I made a sketch of the relevant details and left.
Once I was home I began digging into my books for further information. I quickly confirmed my suspicions and wrote to a reputed coin dealer and friend in Calgary for advice. While I'd examined the sestertius closely in case it was a counterfeit, I was no expert. The dealer wrote back. He was interested, and would gladly buy it from me if it was genuine. But there was the rub. He said the type was widely counterfeited because of its worth and special significance.
A couple of weeks passed and I phoned the neighborhood coin shop. Did he still have the sestertius. He did... in fact he had had an interested customer, but he hadn't wanted to pay the asking price. What price was that, I wanted to know?
$125.
I was there the next day, examining it again. My sketches had been accurate, and I saw no obvious evidence of fakery. It wasn't in as nice a shape as photos of other such coins I'd recently seen, but it was likely still a very valuable piece. If real. I asked without much hope if I might take the coin home, scan it, and consult a trusted dealer in Calgary. I had expected him to refuse, but to my suprprise he agreed.
Since then I've scanned the coin in high resolution and sent the file to my advisor in Calgary. He's looked at the scan, but said he can't decide from that alone. It isn't much to go on, but he thinks the two letters SC on the reverse are a bit broader than they should be, and this could be the result of a fine casting of an original. But without seeing the coin in hand, he can't be certain.
And that's how matters stand at the moment. We can't tell if the Judea Capta sestertius is the real McCoy or not. If it is, my dealer says it's worth about $800 in the condition he sees. But do I pass up a possible $675 gain in case its a fake, or risk the $125 to buy it in case its real?
The best move I can make is to hold onto the coin. At the end of June there will be a show in Toronto, and my dealer friend can look at the coin in person. I doubt the owner expects me to hold on to it that long, though. We didn't in fact put a term on it. I can only hope he doesn't notice until the show has come and gone.
So there it is... two intertwined stories about a coin celebrating the crushing of Jewish nationhood for another 1,928 years, and how I discovered what may be the find of my collection.
The end of these two stories is yet to come...
The first is my discovery of it a couple of weeks ago. The other story is about it's importance in Jewish history.
There's a small inconsequential coin & stamp shop in my neighborhood. It rarely has much of interest to me, but on the last visit the owner showed me some new acquisitions. There were a few Sassanid drachmas worth $40 or $50 each, some Elizabethan silver in the same price range, a large Hellenistic bronze I could make nothing of, and another bronze coin about the size of an Eisenhower dollar that caught my eye immediately. It was obviously a Roman sesterius, always of interest, but the face was a familiar and exciting one. There is no mistaking Vespasian's bulldog portrait, nor his son's. The two are difficult to distinguish in fact, though in general Titus is a younger looking man. You look for a "T" in the inscription. "IMP T CAES VESP". His father rarely included it, though they were both identically named Titus Flavius Sabinus Vespasianus. Another give-away are the offices held by each. As I would discover in research later, the father was never consul for an VIIIth. time but Titus was.
Still, as exciting as finding a Titus sesterius for sale, I was more astonished when I turned it over and discoverd the figures of a mourning woman on her knees, and a captive man with his hands bound behind his back, standing to either side of a palm tree. The inscription was blurred but knowing by now what to expect I could easily read it as "Judea Capta".
The Judea Capta series was struck by Vespansian and his son to commemorate Titus's victory over the last Jewish rebellion, and the destruction of the temple. The temple of Solomon was the absolute focus of the Jewish religion, and even today many believe Israel isnot truly restored until temple is rebuilt Highly sought after by Jews as well as coin collectors, his was potentially a $3,000 coin.
I casually asked the price. Unfortunately he hadn't set one yet. I made a sketch of the relevant details and left.
Once I was home I began digging into my books for further information. I quickly confirmed my suspicions and wrote to a reputed coin dealer and friend in Calgary for advice. While I'd examined the sestertius closely in case it was a counterfeit, I was no expert. The dealer wrote back. He was interested, and would gladly buy it from me if it was genuine. But there was the rub. He said the type was widely counterfeited because of its worth and special significance.
A couple of weeks passed and I phoned the neighborhood coin shop. Did he still have the sestertius. He did... in fact he had had an interested customer, but he hadn't wanted to pay the asking price. What price was that, I wanted to know?
$125.
I was there the next day, examining it again. My sketches had been accurate, and I saw no obvious evidence of fakery. It wasn't in as nice a shape as photos of other such coins I'd recently seen, but it was likely still a very valuable piece. If real. I asked without much hope if I might take the coin home, scan it, and consult a trusted dealer in Calgary. I had expected him to refuse, but to my suprprise he agreed.
Since then I've scanned the coin in high resolution and sent the file to my advisor in Calgary. He's looked at the scan, but said he can't decide from that alone. It isn't much to go on, but he thinks the two letters SC on the reverse are a bit broader than they should be, and this could be the result of a fine casting of an original. But without seeing the coin in hand, he can't be certain.
And that's how matters stand at the moment. We can't tell if the Judea Capta sestertius is the real McCoy or not. If it is, my dealer says it's worth about $800 in the condition he sees. But do I pass up a possible $675 gain in case its a fake, or risk the $125 to buy it in case its real?
The best move I can make is to hold onto the coin. At the end of June there will be a show in Toronto, and my dealer friend can look at the coin in person. I doubt the owner expects me to hold on to it that long, though. We didn't in fact put a term on it. I can only hope he doesn't notice until the show has come and gone.
So there it is... two intertwined stories about a coin celebrating the crushing of Jewish nationhood for another 1,928 years, and how I discovered what may be the find of my collection.
The end of these two stories is yet to come...
Category All / All
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 1000 x 478px
File Size 157.8 kB
If you have a really good magnifying lens, look for the lines showing the "flow" of the metal from when it was struck. Usually outside the lettering or beaded border is the best place to see it, of course, it would be easier to tell if it weren't as worn, but maybe you might find some. Cast copies don't usually get these details. I can see why you are suspicious of this one after looking at some photos of other examples, but it could indeed turn out to be a good coin that's just been well circulated. For $125 I'd be tempted to take a chance on it.
I guess the kits inside would be much the same as modern re-issues, but the pleasure of finding them in the old packaging is hard to beat. And 1980 prices are hard to beat too.
I once found a kit of the Explorer I satillite, made by Revell I think. It hadn't been reissued since late 1950's, since space exploration left such primative orbiting radios way behind. When I found it in a flea market it was in the original box still, but I built it rather than keep it for speculation. A few years later I think my cat knocked it down and one of the clear sections showing the interior broke -- the only part I could do nothing to repair -- so that was that.
I once found a kit of the Explorer I satillite, made by Revell I think. It hadn't been reissued since late 1950's, since space exploration left such primative orbiting radios way behind. When I found it in a flea market it was in the original box still, but I built it rather than keep it for speculation. A few years later I think my cat knocked it down and one of the clear sections showing the interior broke -- the only part I could do nothing to repair -- so that was that.
Beautiful coin! I found on with Claudius image on the flea market once. It's not in very good condition thought, the inscription is barely recognizable.
Titus is one of the most interesting emperors. I'm currently reading a book about him. I hope the coin is real.
But even if it's a fake it would still be a very interesting collectible. I'll ask some people I know and I may send you another message later...
Titus is one of the most interesting emperors. I'm currently reading a book about him. I hope the coin is real.
But even if it's a fake it would still be a very interesting collectible. I'll ask some people I know and I may send you another message later...
A lot of people want Claudius, largely because of the BBC series and the novels by Robert Graves. Fortunately, coins by this emperor are fairly common and the demand can be met. Most common are bronze as's which are a little larger than an American quarter. Most are pretty worn, but if you're will to pay $100 to $200 you can find them in good shape. Other coins are more difficult to find. I have some odd provincial issues that were minted in Spain or somewhere, and a couple of quadrans. I badly want a silver denarius of Claudius, but have seen nothing I can afford so far.
So far I haven't made much progress on the Titus sestertius. A couple of people looking at my scans have expressed doubt, but on the basis extremly small details that aren't convincing. I expect to meet my expert friend at the end of the month, and will have to abide by his verdict. If it's a fake, it's not worth $125 by a long shot.
One test I can put it to that might clarify the situation is to weigh it. I'm going to take the coin to the post office tomorrow and see if they'll weigh it for me. I'm told that if I can get a value within a gram, it would be enough. Too light or too heavy and its clearly a fake. On the other hand, some fakes are the rigth weight, so being withing the established range of weights for the real coin won't prove this one is real. I can only prove its fake.
So far I haven't made much progress on the Titus sestertius. A couple of people looking at my scans have expressed doubt, but on the basis extremly small details that aren't convincing. I expect to meet my expert friend at the end of the month, and will have to abide by his verdict. If it's a fake, it's not worth $125 by a long shot.
One test I can put it to that might clarify the situation is to weigh it. I'm going to take the coin to the post office tomorrow and see if they'll weigh it for me. I'm told that if I can get a value within a gram, it would be enough. Too light or too heavy and its clearly a fake. On the other hand, some fakes are the rigth weight, so being withing the established range of weights for the real coin won't prove this one is real. I can only prove its fake.
I'm not really an expert of coins or even a collector. But I love Roman civilization and Ancient history in general.
I talked with a friend who thinks he coin may be a fake, because its unlikely the owner of a coin store (even a small one) wold not be familiar with it's importance and collectible value. So he would be selling it for a higher price.
I talked with a friend who thinks he coin may be a fake, because its unlikely the owner of a coin store (even a small one) wold not be familiar with it's importance and collectible value. So he would be selling it for a higher price.
It's odd that he didn't seem to know. If I could find out, so could he. I've been telling myself he did't research it well because he's mainly a dealer of stamps and East European coins.
But I've also known him to carry replicas. He's shown them to me with non-commital gestures as though he wanted to see if I could spot them or not. Usually I have no trouble -- there are many clear give-aways such as two abvsolutely identical coins (impossible when they're hand struck on hand made dies and likely haven't spent the last 1,800 years together). Or a number of coins from different eras and different types who all seem to have weathered to exactly the same colour. That's just the *crude* clues.
But this coin was from a collection that included other items I was positive were genuine. The only criticisms from my expert friend was that a couple of letters seemed blurred and that's not much to go on. I'll be able to show him the coin in person in a little more than a week.
Today I weighed it at the post office and send my friend the figures. While it won't rule out a fake with the right weight, it could rule out a fake with the wrong weight.
But I've also known him to carry replicas. He's shown them to me with non-commital gestures as though he wanted to see if I could spot them or not. Usually I have no trouble -- there are many clear give-aways such as two abvsolutely identical coins (impossible when they're hand struck on hand made dies and likely haven't spent the last 1,800 years together). Or a number of coins from different eras and different types who all seem to have weathered to exactly the same colour. That's just the *crude* clues.
But this coin was from a collection that included other items I was positive were genuine. The only criticisms from my expert friend was that a couple of letters seemed blurred and that's not much to go on. I'll be able to show him the coin in person in a little more than a week.
Today I weighed it at the post office and send my friend the figures. While it won't rule out a fake with the right weight, it could rule out a fake with the wrong weight.
I recently weighted the sestertius in question at the post office, using their digital scales. I came up with a figure between 18 and 19 grams. The typical weight of a sestertius at this period of history was around 20 to 22 grams, so this is *not* a good sign. Underweight could mean a lighter alloy or less metal overall, but in either case it would not be a legitimate issue from the mint of Rome.
Still hoping it might pass muster when examined at the coin show later this month, but the odds have just gotten a lot worse.
Still hoping it might pass muster when examined at the coin show later this month, but the odds have just gotten a lot worse.
I took the coin to a numismatic show to seek advice, since the owner was as curious about its authenticity also. The consensus was that it was a fake. I should have known it was myself, but I let myself be swayed by hope and the off-chance it might be real. However, a lose inspection of a crack in the edge -- a common flaw -- showed that the crack was one piece instead of all the way through. It was obviously not a genuine coin. However, it was odd because it was likely to have been made as long ago as 200 years ago! It was not ancient, but it was an OLD fake. But that unfortunately didn't make it worth what was being asked for it by the owner.
Incidentally, counterfeited coins from ancient times are commonplace. I have one from before Caesar's time that was likely make to fool naive Gauls in trade. I have another made around 200 AD that was made in the borders near Germany, possibly to supplement scarce small change. They they aren't worth much, but have value as part of history.
Incidentally, counterfeited coins from ancient times are commonplace. I have one from before Caesar's time that was likely make to fool naive Gauls in trade. I have another made around 200 AD that was made in the borders near Germany, possibly to supplement scarce small change. They they aren't worth much, but have value as part of history.
Ahhh, I had a sad feeling it was going to be too good to be true. That's very informative, though! Thank you for filling me in.
What does it mean for an ancient coin to be counterfeit, I wonder? Because for the most part, they're worth whatever the metal is worth. Are they just made of less precious materials?
What does it mean for an ancient coin to be counterfeit, I wonder? Because for the most part, they're worth whatever the metal is worth. Are they just made of less precious materials?
That's the idea... the coin looks good, but the metal is base, and the counterfeiter pockets the difference in the value of metal. In general, cheaper metals such as bronze or copper can be made to resemble silver or gold, but the counterfeiter has to be clever. It wasn't always criminals working in the shadows, passing off bad model for good. In the Roman Republic some traders made coins just to trade to supposedly ignorant Gauls or Germans. The outside would be silver, but inside was a cheap copper core that was worth much less. The barbarians weren't stupid, however, and would often take random samples, and cut into them. Woe betide any "honest" Roman trader in the outback whose coins showed the were worthless inside! But there were the more usual sort of counterfeiters right in Rome itself. Bankers routinely took samples and struct them moniers had to be on guard constantly. Ancient counterfeiting is a study all of its own and worth your interest. Least you think it only an ancient problem, I recall a run of fake $1 Canadian Loonies a couple of years ago. You wouldn't think it worth the effort of faking a $1 coin, but there seemed to be people who thought it worthwhile. They were pretty cheesy, by the way. But who looks closely at $1 coins ... they often look pretty beat up or discoloured anyway.
That's fascinating. I certainly never expected I'd get into a discussion of numismatic history on Fur Affinity, yet here we are, huh? It's probably the most interesting thing that's happened on here for me in some span of years. That story about the Roman traders is pretty entertaining (although I don't imagine it would've been for the traders if they got caught!).
I'm given to wonder how the counterfeit coins would pass off for the originals' weight. Silver is denser than copper by a noticeable margin. Would the coins simply have a higher volume of metal in them? Or would they be left underweight?
I'm given to wonder how the counterfeit coins would pass off for the originals' weight. Silver is denser than copper by a noticeable margin. Would the coins simply have a higher volume of metal in them? Or would they be left underweight?
Fakers would try to fudge whatever they could, but the most practical way was to issue underweight coins, or alter the size. Most money changers/bankers were quite aware of the dodges available, and were vigilant, using weights and measures to spot spoofing. However, ancient coins were not struck as modern coins are, so they were somewhat different signs and shapes, with irregular edges, making it a bit harder to measure then for size. It almost always came down to weight, but since base metal would alter the weight, a counterfeiter could not go past certain limits that were not immediately obvious. A banker could use Archimedes method -- immersing the coin in water -- but it was extra trouble, and few counterfeiters went to the trouble of trying to create coins of standard weight but variable density, so it was not often done. The issue was made more complicated because weights were imprecise even from the mint! An ancient coins would usually be accurate to a tenth of a gram ... but then there was wear on the coin, depending on age. Still another complication is the coin's date of Issue. A coin struck in Claudius' time was typically heavier than one in Nero's time, since Nero began to overspend and devalued his coinage. Worse still, a coin late in Nero's reign would be lighter than one at the beginning! Coin collectors have to have data about known coins to compare say if it is legit or not. If a denarius typically weighs 3.45 grams for that particular issue, but it only weighs 3.2 grams, and neither clipping nor wear can account for the difference, then it is probably a fake.
Comments