As part Scot/English I have mixed feelings on this, when is the referendum vote going to happen? This drawing is a powerful statement for maintaining the UK. Very well thought out and drawn.

The referendum is on September 18th. Thank you :)

Its like the southern states seceding from the US, it cannot be done! I think its stupid and I think they need to think things through.

I think scotland is a nice place but I hope Glasgow goes, some of its people really need to grow up.

It's not just in Glasgow, it's an issue across the entire country. There's various pockets of seperatists who'll shout out loud and relentlessly campaign for independence regadless of what the cost is to Scotland. Besides, the idea of Glasgow seperating from the rest of Scotland is daft anyway XD

Well just letting you know of my opinion of that region as there are some folks that treated me badly.

Other than that they have their own independence, just a part of England. What we almost had was some states in the US almost secede.

The southern states in the US voted to leave and waited for months to assert their independence. The northern states used it as a pretext to invade the south which caused four other states to leave. Up until Gettysburg the south could have won the war. If the Scottish people want to stay, that is their right, if they want to leave, that is their right too. Union at gunpoint always falters eventually.

Since we are friends, I will admit that my mom is from Florida, from the time it was not a bunch of Yankees ^^

I really think it would be best to stay together, though I'll accept the decision of the Scots, whatever it is.

Not that I'll have a choice or anything, heh. More 'respect' the decision, not 'accept'.

Many voiciferous pro independence people don't live up here either :P

So I hear... It's more a very loud minority of pro against a slightly larger majority of against, from what I understand. I've also heard a few people would actually leave Scotland if it became it's own country...

I might consider such a thing, being half-English. But it'd be more to do with economics than nationality I think, given our leaders can't even guarantee what currency we'll have.

Oh definitely to do with economics... I tihnk you're right in it not being a nationalistic thing, at least for most people. Then there's this whole oil thing... it's just such a big risk.

if never the Scotland is separated from UK, what do you do ?

I'll cross that bridge if we come to it.

It's nothing to do with nationalism. It's time that decisions that affect the people of Scotland are made by the people of Scotland. If we carry on, we continue to have no power over the decisions that Westminster makes for us.

It is partly to do with nationalism. While it is true that there are some people who fancy independence who are not nationalists, look who it is who is leading the charge. The Scottish National Party, a party I never voted for. You also get many pro-union people too scared to put up UKOK or Better Together stickers because some idiot might come and vandalise their property.

As for decisions made by the people of Scotland for Scotland, Scotland's had her own parliament since 1999 and has a fully devolved NHS and Education system. We already make our own laws and decisions in Holyrood that the House Of Lords cannot block - we banned fox hunting before England and Wales did and also enacted a public smoking ban some years before they did too. These speak volumes. While the bedroom tax might have come north of the border, Alex Salmond had the power to stop that from coming to effect in Scotland. Did he do anything to stop it? Did he fudge.

I am not saying Scotland can't work as an independent country, at least in theory. But in practice the economics of doing so, especially given the SNP can't guarantee what currency we'll use is enough to scare me. I don't want independence, I want security and devloution max. And I am not going to be led by Alex Salmond's blind faith.

If you want to vote yes though, that's your choice. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one ^_^

The SNP have been campaigning for independence for 80 years, so it should not be surprising that a large proportion of supporters of independence have ended up joining them. I don't believe any line about people being afraid to put up Better Together posters. If they believe in the Better Together campaign that much then they should do it. My own window is full of Yes flags.

Devolution gives us some control over policy, but our overall budget is still set by Westminster through the Barnett formula - which gives Scotland funds based upon Westminster's total spending and thus has seen our funding cut as the Tories have slashed services down south. We have managed to protect the NHS and education relatively well so far, but only by having to let other things go - the big cuts to funding in college education are entirely down to Westminster Tory cuts for instance, and there's nothing we can do about it because we don't have any control over how much money we can spend while we're part of the UK.

The SNP government in Scotland has also taken money out of their block grant to ensure that disabled people would be reimbursed for the Westminster bedroom tax if they were affected by it. The Scottish Government is not able to prevent the existence of the bedroom tax in Scotland because welfare is a reserved matter under the control of Westminster.

An independent Scotland will most certainly use the pound. It's an internationally tradeable currency and England has no power at all to stop us using it. They could potentially deny an official currency union, which would then mean that we wouldn't have a say in interest rates, etc. However, to do this would mean denying us a share of the Bank of England - not only its assets, but its liabilities too - meaning we would inherit no part of the UK's massive debt. Thus it would clearly be insane for Westminster not to support an official currency union - they are only blustering about it at the moment as a means to scare people.

Voting Yes isn't a vote for Alex Salmond - it's a massive campaign uniting members of all political parties and none. I've campaigned alongside Greens, Socialists, members of Labour and the Lib Dems, and ordinary people who've never been involved in politics before. All these people are united by the ideal that Scotland deserves a government chosen by the people best placed to do so - the people who live and work in Scotland. It will be up to the people to elect the first government of the independent Scotland in 2016, and the role of that new government to enact policies as people have voted for, as a proper democracy should work.

Becoming independent isn't some unusual case. Independence is normal for countries - it's the UK that's weird. If you imagine Scotland were independent now, and voting on whether or not to join the UK - to let Westminster decide our laws, to take our tax revenues and decide how much of it to let us spend, and so on - can you honestly imagine we would agree to join it?

Independence is about giving everyone in Scotland a much better future, and I hope you'll be convinced to vote for it.

Points taken, but I'll happily address them since you've spent some time on telling me so :)

I don't put flags up on my car or windows partly for fear of retaliation, but also because I don't particulalrly like being preachy. The Yes movement has become increasingly obnoxious in recent weeks and I can't go very far outside while on my deliveries for work without seeing Yes signs, defaced Scottish flags and even Yes stickers plastered on pillar boxes and lamp posts. It is a free country, but nobody likes having certain ideals rubbed in their face. This applies to both the Yes and No movements, just as much as it does for Labour, Conservative, SNP and the like.

The SNP may have formed 80 years ago, but until recently there was never a large movement to have full on independence from the rest of the UK. You say we don't have control over how much money we can spend on education - that will not change if we circulate a currency that we have no control of, assuming we keep using the pound without being in a formal currency union. And if there was a CU (which there won't, be under no illusion), we'd still have little control over how much is spent on education since the rest of the UK will be helping themselves to most of it (after all, Scotland has less than 1/10 of the rest of the UK's population).

The pound is indeed a fully tradeable currency and England cannot stop us using it, but then what good is using the pound if we have no central bank and are using it the same way Panama uses the dollar? It's only our currency if we remain in the union. Having seen what has happened to some countries using the euro in formal currency unions, it is therefore not desirable for the rUK to set up a mini-Eurozone of sorts in the UK if it will just pose the same problems. You need political unity for such an arrangement to work. The SNP cannot bully the rest of the UK into a currency union just because they shout loudly. Even so, having our currency in the hands of a foreign country is NOT independence.

Voting Yes may not be a direct vote for Alex Salmond, but it's his baby and he's the man who will benefit the most from a Yes vote. As I said before, we already HAVE a parliament in Scotland that makes decisions for us, and instead of seperation I favour devolution max. I do not support the status quo either. I personally can't wait to see the backs of the tartan tories, given their reckless spending plans and vanity projects such as the Queensferry Bridge. Sure, it'll be a fine bridge once it's completed, but it's really a money pit more than anything else.

I do see your point regarding what we'd think if we were asked to join the rUK, but as it happens we don't. We've been in the UK for several centuries, and Scotland in fact instigated it. We didn't become an economic powerhouse until AFTER we joined forces with our neighbours down south. We already have 47 MPs in Westminster, and the last prime minister was himself Scottish, and the one before was born in Scotland.

Independence at this time is in my humble opinion misguided at best and reckless at worst. Even if it wasn't for the economics and other factors, there's also the fact I am half-English and have English relatives; I never ever wanted to see us split the country and that's what my heart tells me, so it will take more than Yes Scotland's romantic vision to convince me to vote in their favour.

Thanks, but no thanks. Peace and love from a fellow Scotsman ;)

Last I heard Gullible was living in the Midlands, and not planning to change his postal address from a Scottish one until after the referendum. Go figure.

As an English person I'm somewhat on the fence over the issue, and a wee bit envious at times that Scotland seems to get a better calibre of politician overall. I suspect quite a few English people would like the opportunity to break away from the current state of Westminster politics and have a clean-ish slate. My constituency is a Tory safe seat, so voting seems a fairly pointless exercise save for maybe helping one of the other candidates keep their deposit.

My constituency is a marginal SNP seat, though I never voted SNP. It seems a bit pointless having an SNP member of parliament when he doesn't show up most of the time!

I wish we were never having this referendum. If the referendum doesn't go the way I hope it will, I'll probably move to Northwest England or somewhere. I don't want to live in a country who are dominated by small minded nationalists :P

Amen Keeny, I just dont wanna think about it XD
But we are stronger and better together X3

I agree. After seeing what happened to countries like Slovakia when they went independent, I don't want the same thing to happen to Scotland either.

I don't think Scotland would devolve into racial hatred and crimes against humanity.... Salmond isn't that much a nutter XD

But its the sheer economic, law, defence, health, legislation...the sheer mess it would cause to Scotland... to myself in the services and my colleagues, its inconceivable that some people truly want to split and be cut loose from something that has worked for a couple of hundred years. To actually risk Scotland's fate during such times (economic mess, political mess, and a genuinely scary world since WW2). One hell of a gamble for Scotland.

By all means devolve powers and responsibilities more... but to cut this social-economic partnership,gah DX

Well, what I meant was that in Slovakia the economy collapsed and 20 years down the line the country still hasn't quite recovered from that :P

More and more I feel 2014 is like 1938/9. Political weakness has lead to such people like Salmond getting in charge :/ big mistakes are about to be made while dark rumblings are occurring over the world... to want to go alone now of all times... :X

gah. Nice pic Keeny C:

Salmond got a majority in Holyrood largely thanks to a low turnout and some dodgy constituent boundaries with marginal seats. I hope we won't be making that same mistake in the next Scottish election ^^.

While I can certainly understand wanting to stand on your own feet (and distancing yourself from a government as calamitous as Cameron's certainly isn't a bad idea) I'm a firm believer in being better off together than alone. I'm also concerned that, following the lead of so many policitians right now, Salmond has a self-serving ulterior motive for wanting independence.

Maybe I'm just jaded and cynical, but the possibility of Scotland being led blindly into something that could do more harm than good, especially in the long run, doesn't sit well with me.

I personally hate David Cameron, and a lot of it is down to his stance on fox hunting and how he wants to repeal the hunting ban in England and Wales. Thankfully, the coalition as a whole is lukewarm on the issue and there's a good chance Cameron won't win the next election. Alex Salmond meanwhile would probably want to be the king if he could be, but even then he has divided Scotland and made nationalism rear it's ugly head, and not done a thing to condemn it.

I think that in theory Scotland can work as an independent country, but in practice I am not convinced, mostly because of how much the SNP have fudged things up.

Didn't something similar occur with Ireland in recent years?

The majority of Ireland became an independent country following the Irish War of Independence in 1922. The 6 counties which comprise Northern Ireland remained in the United Kingdom.

Thank you sir! I wasn't sure if those other counties had followed suit with the other half of Ireland in the last 20 years.

After the independent of 1922, the irish civil war happened. Lasted for a year. I pray to god this won't happen in Scotland.

There was huge trouble in Northern Ireland (the other 6 countries) from the 70s - 90s. It was so bad that there was riots there when the scottish football teams Celtic & Rangers played each other.

My question is, would scotland be able to last economically? What economy/industry is there that would keep a independant Scotland stable?

The same things that keep most countries going, I guess. But if you want specifics: Renewable energy, Tourism, Food and drink exports, Oil, Wood... Rockstar games. ;D

At the moment we have oil and gas, shipbuilding, whiskey, tourism and renewable energy to our advantage. But given that Scotland's GDP is about the same as that of Romania, and with the very real threat of losing jobs in the shipbuilding and defence sectors should Scotland vote Yes, I can't see it being all rainbows and pots of gold for us somehow.

I sometimes would almost like Scotland to vote Yes so I could see Salmond's independent utopia fall apart in front of its eyes, while I could laugh and say "I told you so", but then it wouldn't be fair on the majority of people in Scotland.

And besides it will be just as entertaining to see Scotland vote No, and see Salmond's smug smile wiped off of his face, while the heads of all the cybernats collectively explode in outrage!

And also, Salmond only "won" last night's debate on the basis of being the loudest and most obnoxious, rather than having any answers or talking any sense. And having a biased audience that cheered every time he opened his mouth would have added to that too.

Be interesting to see if it has any real effect on the polls- I doubt it. After all, No have been consistently in the lead in the polls- There has only been a single one with Yes in the lead, and that was nearly a year ago, and was carried out by the SNP itself- not a single poll taken indepenently has shown a Yes lead. There's going to need to be a dramatic turnaround over the next 3 weeks, and I just can't see it happening.

And I'm waiting for some nat to tell me I shouldn't have an opinion on the subject because I'm not in Scotland, but if the fake Rev Stuart Campbell can spout his bile on Wings Over Bath, then why shouldn't I give my view?

I think Salmond's fucked either way TBH. If Scotland votes Yes then he'll become a spent force and will become the man that leads us into economic chaos and uncertainty. If Scotland votes No, he will not have a leg to stand on and be a laughing stock.

Dare I get into political chatter on a furry website? Oh golly, why not.

Just to keep the situation balanced: There is more to the idea of Scottish independence than sheer nationalism. There are major issues in our current political state, such as the distribution of wealth, poverty, social and political differences, defence, and democracy amongst other things.

Also, the issues there have been present for many years, and the idea of independence has been a long term topic. Indeed, a referendum was held in the late 70s concerning devolution, which despite getting a majority vote, was not implemented. (Scotland however managed to gain a devolved parliament in 1997, implemented in 99(?))

For me, it's not about leaving the UK for the sake of it; it's about managing our own affairs and resources, and allowing Scots (finally) a democratic vote. England's still gonna be there, and I'm sure we'd have good relations after it. Independence won't stop me coming to CFz in any case. :p

Tl;dr: England's lovely, Wales and N.I. too. But politics.

I definitely do agree with you that the current state of things is undesirable. I think we'd be better off with devolution max than full seperation though, since we'll retain the securities we have as a united kingdom but have more powers to ourselves. We already enact our own laws via the Scottish parliament which is something we didn't even have 20 years ago ^^. Scotland already HAS a democratic vote, but we aren't always going to get who we vote for, just the same as some areas of England and Wales.

And yeah, independence won't stop me coming to CFz either, but I'd hate to feel like a foreigner in what is essentially my own country (being that I am half-English too!) :)

You love Scotland so much you're happy to see our affairs controlled from afar by people with no stake nor interest in Scotland's future, with a token handful of powers delegated to us?

Man, I don't get unionists.

Well I certainly don't get nationalists. Who in their right mind would vote for not knowing for sure what currency we'll be using? Who wants to vote for using a currency the same way Panama does? Who wants to vote thousands of defence workers and shipbuilders on the Clyde out of a job? Who wants to vote for people losing out on their pensions?

And for your information, statistically speaking Scotland gets the government it votes for more than any other country in the United Kingdom does! Be under no illusion, the statistics do not lie while Alex Salmond and the Yes Scotland faithful do.

Well we can only wait. Regardless of what happens, if Scotland does separate, it doesn't mean that a beneficial friendship has to break as well.

Here here! <3

Thank you.

I'm all for the union if it can be managed equally, but so far it's not. I hope whatever the outcome of the referendum that the opportunity is not squandered by either side.

and hopefully world war 3 does not happen.

Me too. If Yes wins I don't want them to screw things up for us. If No wins, I want Westminster to give Scotland devolution max. I certainly don't want the status quo, regardless of what the result is next month.

As an Englsiman in Scotland I can tell you there are alot of things that both sides are not saying, natualry but what is more worrying is Salmond is wanting to become a name in history and this seems to be blinding him to the truth of what will happen IF Scotland was independant.

I do hope we stay together

Alex Salmond is unbearable, and I'm fed up of him being first minister - not that I wanted him to be in the first place

Run, Scotland. Get out while you still can.

What they should do is build a great big stone wall all across the border, and then... oh, wait...

We need to rebuild the wall, then man it 24/7 by a dedicated legion of guardsmen. We can call them the Night's watch....

Maybe we could hire the guys that did such a good job on the Israel/Palestine wall? xD

Hadrian's wall doesn't quite go up as far as Berwick-Upon-Tweed XD. But I'm not in favour of building another wall ^^.

I remember there being a couple of referendums in Quebec, both of which were unsuccessful. But the narrow margins result in a 'neverendum' so to speak, an outcome which I too find undesirable.

Whatever will be will be. I just don't want anything nasty to come out of it.

Fortunately it's not escalated to that point over there yet. I find it doubtful that it will though, but one thing I do fancy is Wales getting incorporated into the Union Jack ^^.

DRAGONS MAN, WHY ISN'T IT IN THE FLAG? IT'S TOO BADASS NOT TO BE! ;O

I don't blame them for wanting to leave. Westminster has become a vile self-serving parasitic beast that needs to be removed and starved. It'll be a great loss for the union but with this antihuman government firmly entrenched, it seems like the only way. :/

I certainly don't like the Coalition government we have right now either. But we've got a general election next year so we may not have to suffer from them much longer.

I don't ....

Do you like bagpipes?

Not for prolonged periods, no. But I do like them in short bursts XD.

My dad hates them. :P

Hehe, good XD It's a good instrument to torture people with XD

Yes exactly ;) thats why we never fought you lot, you scared us away. My dad says the best place for bagpipes are on a steam engine's fire. :P

I don't like getting involved in politics, but I kinda feel that nationalism is trying to raze countries to the ground.

I say we wait. If they stay united, then some problems might be fixed.

Like I said, I don't get involved that much.

Better that you don't TBH. I think politics is a dirty business and the fact that I can be political at times is one of the things I dislike about myself :P

I don't undestand why Scotland wants to be independent from the UK?

I'm not into politics so... kind of clueless on this.

Same as politics anywhere.
A few individuals at the top of parliament have found a way to gain personal profit from exploiting some reasonably popular public ideas, and are campaigning vociferously to have their way.

I'm curious why the whole of the UK doesn't get to vote in the referendum. Doesn't it affect you all?

It will affect the rest of the UK too if Scotland cuts loose. But the decision has to be made by those who live in Scotland, quite right too.

The UK should have become a federation like Canada or Australia decades ago. Set up an English parliament in Colchester or York - somewhere outside London - delegate whatever responsibilities the new 'provinces' can look after themselves, and let Westminster look after things that would be too expensive or massive for the home nations to look after by themselves.

Amen!

I think we already have that with the constituent countries in that Scotland and Wales already have their own devolved parliaments. But I would like it if both those countries were given devolution max ^^.

I really don't comprehend the thought processes of separatists. Maybe it's just my belief but nations work better with a sense of unity. Look at the USA... ok, bad example. Look at Germany. Look at Australia. At lot of people, even many living here, wouldn't realise that Australia nearly ended up being divided into different nations. Although we did unite under a federation in 1901 we continued to suffer complications, the best example being how the railway gauges differed between states.

If Scotland secedes then I predict the event will fuel the fire of the republicans here, along with the Quebec separatists. I shudder to imagine what's ahead.

Uh-oh, I have fears of this, too. I hope there won't be another war.

Quebec's a scary one in that there's been two unsuccessful referendums that were lost by narrow margins. I certainly don't want to see that here, I'd rather the No vote won by a considerable margin to put this issue to bed for at least a generation. Nobody wants a 'neverendum' as if it were...

Right now separatism in Quebec is somewhere between fragmented and dead. The governing party got a bit too focused and paid the price as a result. The defeated non-separatist party, which has been tied to corruption scandals, managed to get in with a majority less than two years after the previous election.

Very glad to hear that Quebec is now unlikely to secede.

(Your latest avatar is scary KF )

Former Prime Minister Keating (going back a few PMs), AKA "Mr Recession" was madly pushing for an Australian Republic during his term. Even now he still wont shut up about it despite the proposed republic being defeated by referendum in 1999. Unfortunately it is indeed only a matter of time, as third generation (or more) Aussies are now greatly outnumbered by Australian citizens of recent immigration who have no ties to the United Kingdom. If it were put to a referendum now I expect any proposed republic would succeed.

I know I keep saying "When I resume my webcomic" (not until *after* I'm able to find a job) it will be set several decades in the future when Australia *is* a republic....
...and very dystopian.

Sepratists are driven by the idea that their government doesn't represent them, either culturally , regionally or politically and that the policies of the government somehow hurt you and people in a similar situation or place. Linguistic and cultural differences hieghten the feeling of Us vs Them, making it easier to cast them as something foreign. Quebec in Canada is easy, they speak french while the rest of the country speaks english. In the US its a bit more complicated since both republicans and democrats have threatened to leave (jsut th republicans got more attention in 2012 than the democrats did in 2004) but the basic formula is when one side gets office the other side feels disenfranchised.

If Scotland leaves, it will be watched closely to see if it succeeds or fails. If it seceedes and does better, THAT would fuel some separatists who would have an example. If iit fails it will be largely unmentioned.

Thanks. That's well thought out and very insightful, and I can now better see the other side of the argument. You're certainly right about the outcome being watched closely. If Scotland's succession proves successful then I guarantee it will fuel the debate down here.

Interesting turn of event for Scotland. Only seeking independence now.

Not really, there's a lot of people who don't want it.

Are many Scots onboard the separation train?

The vast majority of reliable opinion polls suggest a comfortable No win, but never count one's chickens before they've hatched.

I think those Monty Python spoofs about Scots back in the 1960s were the nudge for this.

That far back eh?

Kinda annoyed at the comments on this pic.

You're not making the political statement people are saying you are making, you're just stating how all this feels for you, and that's cool.

Pretty much ^^. I really don't want to argue with anyone over this.

still nice pic too

Sadly it got like that because a "Yes"- supporting fur tweeted a link to the submission to encourage other Yes-supporting furs to make those sorts of comments to try and sway him into changing his opinion. Sadly this is far from the first time I've seen "Yes" supporters on the internet acting like this...

Let's hope love won't tear them apart.

Where indeed XD. At least you'll get to keep that massive new HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier - we'll get fuck all :P

On an apolitical note, if Scotland does separate there will be parts of Scotland which were part of Norway longer than they were part of the UK. Pretty weird, huh?

Strange to think so XD

As a german I live in a country that had a loudmouthed minority "assemble" it only to break it apart, and, likewise, afterwards, a loudmouthed minority eagery trying to move both parts further apart from each other.

Funnily, both failed.
Although it was pretty painful in both cases.

At least you live in a united Germany again XD Scottish nationalism is a really ugly thing just now.

Like so many things, it'll fade.
Not fade to nothingness, hopefully not. But I am sure that, when it reared like a dinosaur and lost it's teeth agaisnt a bunch of the realities of life, it might evolve to a better thing.
Or, well, go extinct indeed.
With us Germans we got the fractured national pride.
Only when we win , say, the soccer championship are we able to be proud of our nation.
When you do it for somethign else, there's always that guy with the square beard looking over our shoulders and spooking us.

Hehe, at least Germany can be proud of a strong economy and strong football team ^^. And clean parks :)

Say so outside football or grilling season and surely you'll find somebody who suspects you to eat babies and and sleep in brown linnen XD

Well, it's by far not that bad.
But at some days you meet such people, and the frustration lasts for days then.

The votes are now cast, and thankfully these paws of friendship depicted above can remain joined... at least for another few decades.

(Now hopefully the separatists in my country will shut up for as long - I don't want Australia to leave the union either)

We won :)

One of my favourite things about this is that Gullible's attempt at getting people to bully you to vote Yes ony had the effect to strengthen your resolve against indy and the SNP, get you volunteering for Better Together and joining Scottish Labour

Hehe, I suppose so ^^. It wasn't all down to him though to be fair. A lot of it came down to the realisation of just how much I loved the UK.