whoa this is the best you made.
dkjhfsdf good luck selling c:

best one*

ouaghhh this is gorgeous

Oh wow, she is so lovely. Wish I had the money!

Such adorbs, but waaay out of my price range.

I like dah hair on this one.

so cute weldone : 3

Omg preettttyyy!! This will go to one lucky person!

I'll take her! <3

As in I'll buy her! :)

thank you thank you, sorry for the late reply! I will note you :)

She is gorgeous!

omg noooooooo id give my soul for her q-q

Absolutely gorgeous. Very excellent work.

But is an image that takes less than two hours to make worth over $100? what is that 115 paying for? Certainly that cant be for labor, and I doubt that image cost you anything to make it other than time.

How does a person set the price of their work? What rules do they follow? Is it more "whatever I want" or is that price based on fairness, profit but not a rip off, and competitive values?

Whatever someone is willing to pay is whatever it's value is. Don't get me wrong, it baffles me too at times and by God I wish I had these kinds of sales.. but such is art. It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay

Well what are you willing to pay for this? Give an honest answer, not a "must suck up to Falvie" type of answer. I am curious, and I mean no harm or bad words to be said even if it comes off that way. I am just so curious as to how it all works.

I'm an artist, I don't pay for art. I don't suck up to artists. I look at their work, learn from it, enjoy it, but to me art has little value as I create my own.

Falvie's work I appreciate for her distinct style, color theory and just overall eye popping images. She's got a lot of skill. It's not up to me to say what her prices should be or what's 'fair'. No such thing as fair. It's awesome she can make a living off of art. Plenty of folks wish they could, I know I do.

I go at times 'Holy crap, what do they have what I don't have?' and it comes down to those things I mentioned. Distinct style, eye popping images. They stand out and they appeal. And after a while it becomes like having brand name items. A thing of status. Kudos to her for getting there.

Just research economics and you'll have your answer. To be brutally honest, a big portion of it has to do with "name brand" Falvie is an artist who has been at it a very long time and has a huge fanbase. So there is a big demand for her art. So here is where economics comes into play. Her prices have to match her demand, if it wasn't like that then there would be a surplus of demand without enough supply (due to her not being able to work fast enough) so in order to combat that you raise the prices. Its like asking why Lucky Charms sells better than off brands. Its popular, visually appealing, and has a big name brand above it. Not saying name brand is bad, just saying that is basically the concept when it comes to artwork.

Oh I understand economics, stranger.

But when it comes to art, I do not care about the name of the artist, I care if the work is outstanding or not, if it is original, if the artist really put their soul into it. If they have one.

And my question from the very beginning, was not that the price was too high, too low, or whatever it could be. I was simply curious about the artists intentions. And since Falvie herself has not said a damn thing, I believe I will not get an answer. So thank you for trying to help, but your princess is in another castle.

I'd honestly only pay 40$ or MAYBe 50$ for something more complicated that is pre-made.

I have always wondered that my self. I try to price my self at around a basic minimum wage then price my art at how many hours it takes to make, if its digital.

I will never understand why people pay so much for some art though some times. It baffles me.

Oh my, great point. There is a lot on this site that you'd have to be a complete idiot buy at such high prices. I will never truly understand what the person is thinking, to spend hundreds on an image that might even be worth only 50 dollars, especially if it is a flat, singular character. And it isn't like you're buying the copy rights to the character itself, because most artists that make them haven't filled out the paperwork for that.

Such a curious thing, the mind of the consumer.

It also confuses me that you don't even get a print of the character!
but she does send the buyer an un-watermarked file, so I guess the buyer could just do it themselves?

Hmm, it would be best to not do that, unless you have an HP lazer jet or something expensive that prints amazingly. But I think, included in the price of the character, the artist should have two pictures, a reference picture, and an artistic picture. Both to be shipped to the customer, and the bills for that are in the main price of the buy. Wouldn't that make it fun? Make it worth the price?

An artist wanted only 80 USD for 15 traditional, beautiful drawings and a painting from an artist here, he lived in Poland, and he included the shipping price. Now, I could not take that price for such beautiful stuff, and I do mean amazing things, so I bumped another Franklin on it and told him that this is what it is worth, and you cant refuse I have your PayPal name.

I absolutely agree, I have seen Reference sheets bought at this price.

This isn't even that. She used to do like what? $20 painting or something around that price for shit like this.

Now it's 115 for the same thing, with a generic looking character >_>

Professional artists should be making 20$/hour minimum (entry/no experience wage) by industry standard jsyk! It only goes higher from there (often up to or more than 50$/hour with the right work)

But see I have always wondered when you become a "professional" artist. I can assure you 99% of artists on FA do not have a business license to sell/receive money for their wares and do not pay federal taxes on the money they receive thus in my pages are not professional.

I also wonder because, at the job I just worked at a metal smelting factory...the people there that worked the electrical system (just about the whole plant because every thing is ran with electricity, even the metal is melted with it) and those guys have done mass and I mean MASS amounts of schooling, training and such, and make 23 an hour ( I spoke with one of the head electricians there and that's what he made) So when does an artist decide they can charge 30....40.....maybe 50 dollars an our to sit at a computer and draw?

Im not being mean or bashing, im seriously curious as to when people feel their time of sitting down doing very little is worth more then people who are up, doing dangerous physical work to make every day livable...is worth more then them.

Most Artists have practiced drawing for years and studied many materials to get where they are today.
You don't need to go to school to learn how to draw, but it certainly speeds up the learning pace. It would
just take longer to learn what's needed without art school since you'd have to figure it out yourself.
There is a lot of work and dedication put into art. Also, even professional artists set their own prices.
From what I know, the title "Professional" doesn't really mean much in the art world. I've spoken with plenty
Professional Artists and they do literally the same thing we do here on FA, and that's get commissioned. Their prices are just higher.
Some of them get commissioned enough to go to France every other year, but that's the art world for ya.

I think HERE is a nice link for describing Professional Artists.

Yes, but my question is this. Why do some artists price them selves at the same amount as what surgeons make. How is drawing art worth as much as preforming a surgery? Taking care of a life, fixing a medical problem that could kill some one....vs sitting at a computer and drawing. Ya know? That's my main question. I have been drawing since I was a child, but am I going to charge people for that and then say "your paying for the years of me drawing?" Hell no, that's just ridiculous.

Because they can. People price things so high because people will still buy. (with some supply and demand thrown in)
This is true for ANYTHING that is sold. If people buy it, then they keep the prices.
This is the same for the medical field as well. Getting an arm fixed doesn't have to cost and arm and a leg (Literally),
but if people are still buying, then there's no reason to lower prices. It doesn't matter if some other
state or country has lower prices than the next, those are that state/country's prices. You're paying for
the Doctor's time and skill as well. As you are paying for an Artist's time and skill.
As you would pay for a factory that makes shirts or toys time and skill (which is minimum and why factory stuff is cheaper).
Groceries, Gas, Furniture, Video Games, Computers, anything that you can buy.

It's all about if people will still buy it. And they do.

Yeah, as I said to the other person, I understand that, even if I highly disagree. So we can just leave it at that, since I know the point, yet still see it in a different light. :)

Because when you've spent so long developing your skills, you're really gonna choose to sit there for 12 hours doing the same job you can earn the same amount for in 8 hours arent you?

She needs to make a living, and if her art is popular enough to make that sorta money then yeah. The only reason I dont think her character auctions/ buy nows are worth that value is because you only get 1 side of a character. You cant see fully what their markings are like =/ which really is paying for half a character.

I'm going to skip down to this one, but the reason artists, in general, charge that much I'd be a use they aren't doing constant work at constant hours.

A surgeon almost always works for someone with a set salary, benefits, etc. And artist either freelances, works a 3-4 month contract (most common in the video game field for example) OR, if they're extremely lucky, gets hired/kept around as a lead in their field.

It isn't fair to compare surgery to art in my opinion. Each is a trained skill, and while some are lucky enough to never go to school for it, many aren't. The primary reason they can charge "that much" though, is because they need to be to able to live until their next job - with no guarantee as to when that is.

Also once you start making over 10k a year on your art you DO have to pay taxes :p it's under self employed, which is I guess when you can consider yourself professional?? I mean I don't make nearly that at the moment but I would still consider myself a professional artist (I only charge around 10-20/hour at the moment tho)

Okay. My goal is not defending falvie (I literally have in ass what people say about her drawings), I just want to exmpain in short words how it all works.

' when people feel their time of sitting down doing very little is worth more then people who are up, doing dangerous physical work to make every day livable...is worth more then them.'

Firstly, these are two totally different things and you can't compare them. Why footballers gets 200.000 dollars or more per match? Because they have their faces. Yes, faces. In my opinion even the best football gamer doesn't deserve such big wages. But it is my opinion. People who paying them think differently... And it's the key.

They ask that much when people are ready to pay that much. The dependency is simple and cruel - as long as you'd get clilients, you can raise prices in this market. You said ' those guys have done mass and I mean MASS amounts of schooling, training and such'. Remember that arstist do it too. Schooling, training and such things are inseparable parts of their work. Furthermore, they do it over and over, day by day, every time when they sit and draw, paint or whatever. It is also hard mental work and it's not only week or two of schooling in some period. This training take all whole life. I didn't want to sound pathetic, but it's just a fact.

People have their brains. Mind is an evenement, but all have brains and we can use them more or less. We can decide, no one force us to buy kind of art that we don't like. If people decide that they prefer to buy flat icon for $100 drawn by one person than buy full environment illustration for $200 from another, it's simply the person's decision and we can do nothing about it.

If you have name - you know, good PR and all those things (and skills level is certainly not the only one determinant here) - then you'll have clients. Always.

Falvie has style which - for some reason - appeals to the masses. It's not so detailed and so complex, and it's not so difficult. Probably people now wrench off my head and throw it to the river but anyway I think so. She's can't tell us that she's sitting for about two milion hours on one painting, because she's definitely not. But it doesn't mean that she can't take for works as much as she want to, because even if she'll ask for $500 for full character drawing (which in my opinion is a sick price for such simple drawings), she's probably still have clients. Why she shouldn't use this fact to her advantage? She would have to be complete idiot.

Yes, artists are bitches. They prefer to do less orders for large amount of money and maybe spend rest of the time on working on personal projects, than play charity foundation by doing $10 commissions when they can charge $100 with no problem. We're freelancers and we don't have superiors who determine amount of our salary. People in your factory have and it's the pain.

World is cruel place, market is even more cruel than world. My parents work on their jobs for about 30 years and get less than $1100 together for month (it's something like $550 per person). When I have good time and time to do anything for anyone, I can sometimes do $550 per week sitting on chair or floor in a warm house, doing things which I like to do. It's so fucking unfair but so is. No one can change it. I worked for it so why shouldn't I use it? We use all what we can and how we can at every level of living.

But if your calling art your job, then you can compare one job to another.

As an artist, I don't see why I should charge people outrageous prices for my art just because there are people crazy enough to spend that much. That's taking advantage of people I feel personally. I guess that's why I have a hard time with people are paying just for the artists popularity and name. It kills me.

I guess I will never understand it, as I grew up with the ideas of how would you feel in their shoes. I would never buy an adopt for huge amounts of money, so would never charge that.

To each their own. We can just leave this conversation at that... as I understand the point people are making, even if I highly disagree with that logic. D:

Then compare handing out leaflets (when somebody can just run up to you in a street and knock knife to your back), kindergarten work (when the child can stratch your eyes or fall down the stairs and die and you will be responsible for this), work in harmful conditions (when toxic compounds kills you slowly), footballer work (when you can broke your leg), founder of a large corporation (who just sitting on his big, comfortable armchair and gives orders to workers) and fleerancer work (when you can get for example carpal tunne syndrome which causes troublesome pain and may forced you to stop drawing for longer time or completely leave the job in worst cases.) It really doesn't make any sense.

Every work have its own rules in some way.


'I don't see why I should charge people outrageous prices for my art just because there are people crazy enough to spend that much'

Because you can and because people have minds to think and make decisions. If they can be 'crazy' and spend that much because they have that much and they can, let's them do it. Maybe this make them feel good? Maybe they really like an artist? It doesn't matter. You think artist should be a shepherd guarding their sheeps? These sheeps are not sheeps and these can make decisions BY YOURSELF.

Art is not thing necessary to survive, it is luxury commodity. It's why 'how would you feel in their shoes' doesn't work here.



Part of my brain is also disgusted about it, but it just work like that.

Well your getting a little snippy, so fare well :( sorry you seemed to take so great of offence so my opinion.

Hey, no, no! I'm not snippy, it's just my writing style. I mostly don't use emoticons and it's why it may looks like that. I didn't feel offence and I didn't want offence you in any way. We just conversed, we know our views, we respect that and each other. I just wanted to explain some things but I didn't force you to accept this reality in any way.


So have a nice day, because I think that each of us said what he wanted to say, right?

^ THIS!

But if someone was willing to give you above minimum wage, wouldn't you take it? One of the reasons why I quit doing commissions was because I found there were a lot of minimum wage jobs that were way easier than art. I feel like if it takes training and experience there should be more money involved.

Even when I was doing entry level work for one of my positions I was being given $10/hr and I made more in a week than what I did a year's commissions. Encouraging artists to only take minimum wage is incredibly demoralizing.

I guess you missed the discussion that just happened about this exact same topic. Rather than ignite all that again, read the comments here: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/15636672/

Ignite an argument? Oh I am not trying to do that. My curiosity simply wishes to know why art is so much when it basically costs nothing unless it is traditional, where ink, pencil, and paper are used.

I understand, though I do think your own journal would be a better place to have this sort of a discussion.

"My curiosity simply wishes to know why art is so much when it basically costs nothing unless it is traditional, where ink, pencil, and paper are used. "

There's nothing that's worth more than a person's time in life, because we have very little of it in the grand scheme of things. Artists spend their personal time on designs and creating the art, regardless of the medium used. What you're suggesting is that the artist just thinks about the design and it appears on their monitor, then they sell it. This is a good example of how to break down the time it costs to create a piece of art. No, the time is not exaggerated, I'm just a slow artist. It takes me a lot of time to think up just an idea for a picture, let alone the pose, lighting, colors, designs, etc. Others are faster, but regardless, each stage requires skill and time and is unique to the individual (I wish I was faster). The medium used is irrelevant (and tablets are expensive tools to buy and sometimes maintain, too).

I think that comic was meant for you, as I know you aren't trying to be rude, you just want to understand where prices come from. In the future, though, it is more respectful to have discussions like these on your own page rather than someone's submission, as it's just not appropriate. I feel bad for even encouraging it, but this seems to be a common topic and others may learn something in the process. At least that's what I hope.

No no, on the contrary I have said nothing to be defined as rude, perhaps stern and straight to the point, but never rude.
And I do not believe that time is worth as much as people say it is, otherwise we would not waste our time on this website.

Good evening to you, thank you for participating, I have no quarrel with you. I will learn as much as I can from this discussion. Thank you

Time is worth a lot more than people understand, regardless of how they choose to spend it or what any one person believes it is worth. But to be clear, I don't believe you meant any ill will here and I did not realize you just wanted an answer specifically from the artist and no one else (so I apologize to you and the artist for replying to begin with). In that case, I would recommend noting her directly rather than leave a comment in which other people will assume you are looking for feedback in general.

Enjoy your evening as well! c:

I have always thought that Falvie was much too busy to reply to a note, and comments are so much faster and laid back.

Forgive me for arguing and wasting your time.

What I don't understand is why you chose to address this here, on her work. It's rude, even insulting.

Nein, I specifically stated that I was benign. Where else would I talk about the price of her art?

A quote I recently came across:

"Most people fail to realize that adoptables are NOT about being fair and making sure that every person that wants one can afford it. Adoptables are a business.

People enjoy complaining about what they can't have and fail to see the economic standpoint. Why on earth would an artist sell for a lower price if they can make more money with the prices they choose to set? Does it make them heartless? Of course not. It's profitable. If the prices really were so ridiculous, then no one would buy them and the artist would be forced to lower their prices in order to sell. HOWEVER, people DO buy adopts at higher prices, and said people are free to spend their money on whatever they desire.

If people are really so angry about high prices, then GO TO A DIFFERENT SELLER. You don't have to do business with a certain artist. You have the freedom to go and buy from another person. There are myriad talented artists on Deviantart that do adoptables. It's not considered a "scam" or "robbery" if the adoptable prices are slapped right in the description saying "hey, this is how much they are." There's nothing sneaky about it. People know what they're paying for, and you needn't get your panties in a twist over it."

My point was not about the price here being too high for me or anyone else. My curiosity lies with exactly what is going through the artists' mind when thinking of a price. And believe me when I say my panties are in no twist over this.

I am simply curious.

i'mma just
http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l.....o1_r1_1280.jpg

Awesome link to facts.

hopefully it helps you understand a bit more! Her prices are far more than reasonable.

About which I am not questioning!

Hi! I can perhaps explain.

You're buying the image, yes. But you are also buying the rights to the character. $100 is a STEAL for the rights to a character's design - a designer specifically being paid for a character design would charge minimum of $350+, and I personally would never go below $300. Not only are you paying for the labor put into creating this image, you are paying for the right to use the character and its design as you please, and you are paying for the design process (which can take much longer than drawing something that already has a design).

Let's put it into perspective: a logo design, from the cheapest and probably least talented designer you can find, will start at $500. A good design from a designer who knows what they're doing can reach around $3000+. Why? Because after they make the image, it belongs to you. The designer for Apple or Burger King doesn't own the Apple logo or the Burger King logo anymore - they were paid not only to create the image, but to allow full use by the company or person they designed it for.

So, just as they now own their logo and can do whatever they want with it, if you buy a character design, typically you can do whatever you want with that, as well. The character becomes yours - and that's what you're paying for. Imagine for example if you designed, say, Sora from Kingdom Hearts, and Squaresoft came and went "I'll give you 100 bucks if you let me use this character for anything I want." And then they make a wildly successful video game series with a character you drew in it, but who they own now. You would feel cheated, since you sold the rights for such a minimal amount of money comparative to what was being made with your design.

Of course, here on FA, you probably won't make thousands of bucks on a character you bought, but the thing is that you could. And that is why character designs here are seemingly expensive, when most people are used to FA commission prices. Nothing wrong with wondering why - but that's a lot of it.

Oh, believe me, I know full well the concept of the market of design and character ownership. What I was asking in my first comment here, was simply how an artist judges the price on their stuff, when perhaps it may not be as good as 115, 200, 3000, or so on. How does an artist decide what price to put on their art in a way that is more than thinking about how much it means to them?

Plus, the supply of Falvie's characters is very high, they just keep coming from her. All are basic with room for add-ons (which is great, who doesn't like to adjust?)

So basically I don't care how it all works, because I know. I want to know, specifically, how Falvie herself, or Summer, or whatever her name is, decides the right price, one that is fair, one that does not make an idiot buyer empty their wallet, and a price that does not belittle their work, even if it is so little of work. If the artist herself would only leave a comment I'm sure this whole thing would be over and I would have my answer, and I realize I wasn't specific enough for the regulars of FA.

To be honest I'm not sure what you're asking. Why she thinks $100 is an appropriate price? I mean, I'm not her, but my guess would be that she wants to sell designs for less than industry standard due to FA's ideas of what art should be priced, but more than a commission so as to reach a middle ground where both are being attempted... I can't say I know, though - I'm not the artist. I will say that I think most people on FA grossly underprice their shit. Myself included. It's a way to survive when you don't have recognition to charge more yet.

Oh yes, there are art pieces on this site that are under priced, grossly, as you said. However, I do not believe that an easily made, little time used, piece of crap should be a ton of money.

Honestly I think the price of Falvies work is fair, balanced and right. You guys really must have misread my words, as I was not questioning the price of this piece, simply, how that price was gotten to, or whether or not the artist had good will or more of a snake oil man morals. that is all I was questioning. Understand?

Am I really just that hard to understand? I have spoken with complete logic and used no emotion to effect my words, so I really cnnot fathom this much misunderstanding.

I dunno what to tell you - I think you may need to form your own opinion on the morality of the artist. I don't know much about them, so I don't know what they're like, but if you think they have good will or if they're shady, that's a conclusion that I don't think even an explanation from the artist can sway you on - if you think their dealings are shady, or if you think they aren't, that's your call. And while I don't know the artist much, I haven't seen them comment on anything really, so I dunno if they're going to reply.

Well you would spend 150 on a chocolate gun.. so lol.

Yooouuuu are not necessarily right, hahah. Spend $150 on the site in clothing, knives, boots, etc, and then you get a chocolate gun. Hahah

What is that $115 paying for? The question makes me laugh. Rent? Medical bills? Gas? Food? Electric, water, gas bills? $115 is nothing. For single purchase, yes it's a lot. But it's also about how much someone will spend on groceries in two weeks. It's also not that hard of a concept - a person sets a value for their work on A.) how much time it took to make or B.) how much they can make off of it, due to a demand for their work.

Time is labor, friend. Are you saying that all artists don't deserve to price their work fairly, and fairly as in a price per piece that will be able to sustain them financially? A lot of people I know, including myself have only art to offer the world as a form of employment. That's like saying someone who can only teach, or write can't have a fair wage. I don't know if you realize but most commercial freelance artists will charge hourly wages for their work - 10/hr, 20/hr is nothing - time is valuable to an artist because it dictates how much they can get done. How much they can get done dictates how much money they make, which in return tells them if they'll be making rent this month or not.

Competitive value is set by popularity. A painter just out of art school won't be able to sell for as much as authentic Monet - experience and time are what allow an artist to charge more - as well as how big of a following they have. The more people willing to buy your work, the higher you can raise it. Art is a luxury, not a commodity - and therefore an artist is able to charge more because if a person has enough money for it and wants it enough, they can buy it.

You misunderstood me and I was really hoping that the artist of this piece would have replied to me, not an army of ass kissers with an agenda.

I was curious simply because I did not know. You are wasting my time and anyone else that just had to put their two cents in to tell me I'm a jackass is wasting time.




I was curious about something that I wanted to know from the artist of this image only.


I was not being rude, I was simply stating fact, and I was specific about my questions, and how it was not in a negative agenda from the very beginning.

Thank you for the time you spent on me to right out that large few paragraphs.


Your princess is in another castle.

My question to YOU is then this: how do Fine artists come up with THEIR prices? Some paint smeared on a canvas like a 4 year old did it sells for thousands of dollars every single day here where I live, in NYC. Art is a luxury item. It is not something you must have. So I believe what is going through Falvie's mind is that there are people willing to pay that price for a luxury of owning a character by her.

It's like organic food. You pay more for oganic apple because they are extensively screens for GMOs and everyone is on this health kick so places like Whole Foods and farmers markets believe they can charge more because these foods are a 'luxury item' and have a desirable, trendy trait. That's it. Art is as valuable as people decide it is. The audience of Falvie's determines her prices. She may set them, but only when someone agrees to pay it is that price legitimized.

I think the 2 hours should be put toward owed commissions. But who am i.

Dont get me wrong. Love the adopts falvies comes up with. They look time dedicated but i have a friend who has waited years for something that takes less time :/

As I have said to her before....if she's going to do the adoptable thing constantly, why even bother taking on commissions? Just do this for a living and NOT leave those people waiting for years. I mean, I understand that they haven't payed for it yet, but still. Is it really right to leave them waiting that long? :\ It's un-professional, even if they never payed upfront.

^^^^^ THIS. THIS THIS 100 TIMES.

Stunning design as usual. :3

She's gorgeous! I love how natural her markings look, and dat expression. ^^ I can really see the love and commitment you put into all your work.

Why does the above arguing always happen on a her art?
I've seen people pay close to 500$ for a dreamy.

so gorgeous! I love her. But too expensive!

awesome,I love the pose

Realy this again?

I'm getting really sick and tired of trying to enjoy a piece of art, and having it ruined/slandered by people who cab't keep their mouths shut about the price. If you don't like the price, move along. No one wants your opinion.

Falvie, I think this is a beautiful design. I would've bought her had I been online sooner :p

Holy hell, this is ridiculous bickering over something as simple as price. Can we just enjoy the piece?

Fantastic work Falvie, she's super adorbs and has wonderful hair. Keep it up!