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This comic isn't directed at anyone or anything in particular. It's more a set of observations I've made over the many years when it comes to people and how they view art, and the process of learning how to draw. (An alternative version of this comic would have been someone learning how to throw a ball and giving up after one attempt, saying it way too hard).
Art is a skill like any other, requires a lot of attempts to be any good at it. Yet, when it comes to art people have a lot of unreasonable expectations towards it, expectations you don't expect with other skill sets: Copying is bad. Every attempt should be an attempt at originality. Every attempt should be a masterpiece, greater than the piece before. It is an impossible skill to learn. It is something that should not be criticized at all.
Yet when it comes to other skills, you are instructed to copy the actions of other people. You will be criticized and corrected with each attempt. None of the attempts will have any sort of originality attempted until the basic skill sets have been mastered through many attempts. Some attempts will turn out worse than the try before.
One of the biggest problems with art (as I see it anyways) is there's really no "safe" way to learn the basics of art, because any attempt at copying existing art is viewed as plagiarizing, stealing, unethical, lazy, and a whole wide spectrum of negative connotations when it's a necessary step in the learning process. Sure people can say "draw things from real life" but some people want to draw characters, not bowls of fruit.
With any other skill you possess, if you see someone else with a higher skill level preform something that blows your mind; your first instinct would be to try and do it yourself. This is acceptable with practically any other skill except for art. When it comes to art there are landmines everywhere, step on them and be called a hack, a fraud, a thief.
Ultimately art is a form of communication, and I'm a person who'd rather promote that communication as opposed to going "No it's mine! Hands off!". Hard to imagine going up to children learning how to speak "How dare you steal my words!" yet this is something done to people learning how to draw.
Though as for the last part of being gifted art, I do appreciate the effort people put into such things; but at the same time a rock is a rock, and a cake is a cake. (And I know other people have experienced the same thing).
Art is a skill like any other, requires a lot of attempts to be any good at it. Yet, when it comes to art people have a lot of unreasonable expectations towards it, expectations you don't expect with other skill sets: Copying is bad. Every attempt should be an attempt at originality. Every attempt should be a masterpiece, greater than the piece before. It is an impossible skill to learn. It is something that should not be criticized at all.
Yet when it comes to other skills, you are instructed to copy the actions of other people. You will be criticized and corrected with each attempt. None of the attempts will have any sort of originality attempted until the basic skill sets have been mastered through many attempts. Some attempts will turn out worse than the try before.
One of the biggest problems with art (as I see it anyways) is there's really no "safe" way to learn the basics of art, because any attempt at copying existing art is viewed as plagiarizing, stealing, unethical, lazy, and a whole wide spectrum of negative connotations when it's a necessary step in the learning process. Sure people can say "draw things from real life" but some people want to draw characters, not bowls of fruit.
With any other skill you possess, if you see someone else with a higher skill level preform something that blows your mind; your first instinct would be to try and do it yourself. This is acceptable with practically any other skill except for art. When it comes to art there are landmines everywhere, step on them and be called a hack, a fraud, a thief.
Ultimately art is a form of communication, and I'm a person who'd rather promote that communication as opposed to going "No it's mine! Hands off!". Hard to imagine going up to children learning how to speak "How dare you steal my words!" yet this is something done to people learning how to draw.
Though as for the last part of being gifted art, I do appreciate the effort people put into such things; but at the same time a rock is a rock, and a cake is a cake. (And I know other people have experienced the same thing).
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Hm. All the Great Masters … all of them! … studied by copying the works of the masters who came before them. You don't become a writer by copying some other story word-for word, but as you pointed out, you learn the technical skills of putting pigments on paper, or pixels in a raster, by copying the images of others. In learned art institutions, copying the works of masters is a respected tradition. Just be sure to put your own signature on your work.
That said, that woof is cute.
Cooking, too, you learn by making others' recipes … and then by learning the underlying physical and chemical processes. Yes, stirring a cheese fondue with a whisk gives better results than just using a wooden spoon.
That said, that woof is cute.
Cooking, too, you learn by making others' recipes … and then by learning the underlying physical and chemical processes. Yes, stirring a cheese fondue with a whisk gives better results than just using a wooden spoon.
I think the issue comes from art being a much more persistent thing and it being very much entwined with progressive culture. A cake will eventually be eaten but a piece of art will essentially persist forever so long as whatever server hosting it or frame holding it stays in tact. So the way that work was done or what that work says will persist for much longer than baked goods or, for another example of this, the way a car is built. So when somebody creates something that looks very similar to another piece of work the similarities are going to be more evident and thus more people are going to be butthurt about it. Then there's the matter of culture. We have our various classic works like watchmen or the properties that have been engrained in our culture like pokemon. Those works persist and can continue to enrich people's lives long after they were made without any recreation needed; aside from the quantity of distributed copies. So when people copy those things or take heavy inspiration from them people take notice since there's no true need to recreate those properties in any way since they'll always exist somewhere. I think this matter is also exacerbated by the current era of remakes and endless sequelization. We've gotten bored of seeing the same thing over and over so we expect people to tread new ground now more than ever. Even though creative inspiration is very much an additive and transformative thing than people realize.
In a way, art is 'consumed' since you look at it or watch it and then you're done with it. Of course you have the option of watching it again, but the experience might be different the next time around. Watching a movie in a theater is a different experience than watching it at home. Though of course this is the consumption end, and I was focusing more on the creative end. I think the most infamous example is Romeo and Juliet, which has been a story retold countless times, and presented in many different ways or the story of Pocahontas; which of course resulted in the two highest grossing films of all time in the forms of Titanic and Avatar.
When it comes to the notion of 'originality' I think what people actually want is just a remix: The same old thing, but spiced up. Which is how music remixes work, how reboots work (sometimes), and is how a lot of subject matter in drawn art works.
When it comes to the notion of 'originality' I think what people actually want is just a remix: The same old thing, but spiced up. Which is how music remixes work, how reboots work (sometimes), and is how a lot of subject matter in drawn art works.
I have to agree deeply with your observations, Endium, I have a great few friends whose primary mode of 'learning' to art has been to sketch or trace existing pieces; from screenshots of Second Life to popular pieces by their favourite artists.
Though that said, this is also something that applies to a great many other things, from something as rudimentary as building in a sandbox environment (Second Life, Garry's Mod, Space Engineers) to actual modelling. Sometimes it's necessary to take an existing piece of work, and then dissect it to understand how it actually works.
Though that said, this is also something that applies to a great many other things, from something as rudimentary as building in a sandbox environment (Second Life, Garry's Mod, Space Engineers) to actual modelling. Sometimes it's necessary to take an existing piece of work, and then dissect it to understand how it actually works.
As with other desired skills, drawing is something many want to be good at, but it isn't something they want to get good at. In other words, being good is desirable but practice is boring. The big kicker being, of course, that you have to have passion for the practice itself to get better.
It seems as if skipping the basics and thinking outside the box is a way for people to avoid the massive amount of content inside the box that they have still to learn. Like baking a cake without knowing what goes into making one, as the apt comic showed.
I try to never use such excuses myself. If I catch myself thinking "I wish I were better at x, y or z", I remind myself that unless I just get off my rump and practice what I claim to want, then it's not something I actually do want: As demonstrated by the mere fact that I haven't started already.
It seems as if skipping the basics and thinking outside the box is a way for people to avoid the massive amount of content inside the box that they have still to learn. Like baking a cake without knowing what goes into making one, as the apt comic showed.
I try to never use such excuses myself. If I catch myself thinking "I wish I were better at x, y or z", I remind myself that unless I just get off my rump and practice what I claim to want, then it's not something I actually do want: As demonstrated by the mere fact that I haven't started already.
this is so true. and also when people do try and..i hate using the word copy...uh..replicate? another artists work. i think they should mention that. and also show it to the original artist and ask them about it and see if they have any tips or hints on how they can improve.
Well, poo. Our friendly neighborhood formatter confrustulated the URL. Try this one.
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb.....ummelfiold.jpg
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb.....ummelfiold.jpg
When learning a new skill, give yourself permission to be a beginner. And for those artists whose older stuff is still published here or elsewhere, go look at that. Realize that even great artists started out as beginners. We all do: that is the human condition.
I feel you there. For me, learning visual art is kinda like reciting the alphabet; I'm at "A", I want to reach the end of "Z", but I can seem to get my brain to accept that it needs to do "B" through "Y" first, and I just get frustrated because I'm trying to recite the alphabet as "A, Z" and that's just not how it's done.
Sadly, that's not something I can really explain, as I've had my own problems articulating my mental images. The best I can give you (self serving as this may sound) is to read the work I've done, make an effort to construct a vivid mental image if you can (as that is in part what I go for), and contemplate how to reverse engineer that. It's really more a sense of feel than mechanical technique from my perspective.
Sounds a bit like something I heard from 
ruaidri once. "Why does actually doing art have to be so much fun while learning how to art has to completely suck ass?"
I've found that writing is kind of that way too. Mainly you have to learn to go a LOOOOOONG time with no positive feedback. And then when the day finally comes that you're finished with your great work, still be prepared to not get much feedback. Basically just do it for the love of your craft.
ruaidri once. "Why does actually doing art have to be so much fun while learning how to art has to completely suck ass?"I've found that writing is kind of that way too. Mainly you have to learn to go a LOOOOOONG time with no positive feedback. And then when the day finally comes that you're finished with your great work, still be prepared to not get much feedback. Basically just do it for the love of your craft.
I really admire this submission. Not for the comic itself(however cute it may be) but more so for the content of its description. Ive recently learned that my own art skills have made the most leaps and bounds when trying to imitate others art. Art cant just happen, but going for a masterpiece or a completely original work each time is a waste of energy and ultimately will fail. Youre right. There are way too many negative and ridiculous expectations placed on art and how it is learned and executed. You are very wise, sir. Im glad an artist i hold in high regard feels the same as i do!
I'm probably narrow minded but I find the quality artists can start out copying a style and then branch off from it to form their own style. The lazier artists stick to stalking their fave artist and just copying what they do.
Not including myself in the quality artists here but I started colouring works based on a really old Joe Randal tutorial and improvised from there. That gave me the basics and things like lighting and shading I worked out myself as I went along.
Not including myself in the quality artists here but I started colouring works based on a really old Joe Randal tutorial and improvised from there. That gave me the basics and things like lighting and shading I worked out myself as I went along.
It is irritating, but people have been taught plagiarism is a terrible thing which has lead to a real hatred for those who copy someones art, meaning that more people are hesitant to copy fundamentals off of others out of fear of being ridiculed or exiled.
A friend of mine used to free-hand trace Sea-salts pictures (as in, look at the source material than attempt to replicate it on paper, not literal paper over the screen copying) and he used that as a fundamental, and now creates his own original pictures which look great thanks to the fundamental knowledge he gained through copying.
It's irritating that furs would be concerned with someone learning off of their pics, certain artists going as far as to show disdain for those who do.
A friend of mine used to free-hand trace Sea-salts pictures (as in, look at the source material than attempt to replicate it on paper, not literal paper over the screen copying) and he used that as a fundamental, and now creates his own original pictures which look great thanks to the fundamental knowledge he gained through copying.
It's irritating that furs would be concerned with someone learning off of their pics, certain artists going as far as to show disdain for those who do.
This... this is what popped into my head after viewing this comic. (warning explicit lil john lyrics NSFW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
I really love your comment and image,you are the unique dude who say that,others take the easy way,delete all or stop drawing,but we have other invonenient,many peoble don't think like you but maybe one day this change
Good luck Endium and...sorry if my english is some bad
Grertings from México
Ps:i really love your TF sexcuences(sex an secuences)
Good luck Endium and...sorry if my english is some bad
Grertings from México
Ps:i really love your TF sexcuences(sex an secuences)
I always work with recipes too... but if it "works" it's a miracle! Wait... is that a tsp or a dsp?? What do you mean "blanch" it?? Isn't that a character on The Golden Girls? That's not raw, it's al dente ... right?
As for art plagiarism... with some people's odd attitudes I've run across from time to time, especially copyright maximalists, art students would be deprived of nude models, mountains, trees, and certainly fruit bowls.
Personally, I gave up on formal art classes when I ended up with a teacher that decided her aesthetics counted in evaluating the techniques being taught through the final lesson and exam. We spent 3 weeks on it as a class, and since it was a formal class, that really did mean every weekday for 3 weeks. I was more than a little miffed that amount of work merely got a "C" for the final exam because what I considered a pleasing composition was substandard. I have the distinct impression this particular teacher would have given Clementine Hunter an "F".
As for art plagiarism... with some people's odd attitudes I've run across from time to time, especially copyright maximalists, art students would be deprived of nude models, mountains, trees, and certainly fruit bowls.
Personally, I gave up on formal art classes when I ended up with a teacher that decided her aesthetics counted in evaluating the techniques being taught through the final lesson and exam. We spent 3 weeks on it as a class, and since it was a formal class, that really did mean every weekday for 3 weeks. I was more than a little miffed that amount of work merely got a "C" for the final exam because what I considered a pleasing composition was substandard. I have the distinct impression this particular teacher would have given Clementine Hunter an "F".
Art students have learned by copying the works of masters for centuries, and there's nothing wrong with this as long as you don't try and take credit for the original drawing. With furry art I often copy other artist's work to learn how to approach drawing, but I tend to keep such images to myself. If I just need a pose or perspective reference to get a drawing started, I try to take these from a non-furry source, like magazines, manga, or pose reference books.
I've yet to see anyone anywhere that's stating loudly how original they are doing anything different from anyone else equally asserting their own originality in how they are ignoring everyone else and "going on their own". Seems like this is where people end up vomiting on material and calling it art. If it is I have this 6 month old niece...
Originality has nothing to do with formal versus self taught technique. Observing other work and the world around you and applying it to your methods isn't being unoriginal. Originality is taking what you know, what you're inspired by, including tools and formulas developed by others with hard won experience, and applying them from your unique perspective.
Using another work for inspiration or understanding technique is no less legitimate for learning than using a mind image which in itself is in some way inspired by the world around you. We all stand on the shoulders of those that came before us. Those that aren't end up being really short.
Artistry tends to work in the same way construction and engineering does. You understand by duplicating what someone more experienced built before you. It's only illegitimate if you try to pass off what you built as work from another.
In the case of the cake recipe, you have a basic formula that makes a "cake". You can vary the ingredients, but in the end you still need a certain basic formula or it's not a cake. There's plenty that goes into making a cake that's beyond what's in the recipe. How you stir the batter, your oven's temperature, quality of ingredients, the materials making your tools and pans, and many other variables determine a cake's appeal. Just because you followed a recipe doesn't make the cake's taste or appearance any less your own. If you end up with a rock because you wanted to be "original" you're a fool.
Originality has nothing to do with formal versus self taught technique. Observing other work and the world around you and applying it to your methods isn't being unoriginal. Originality is taking what you know, what you're inspired by, including tools and formulas developed by others with hard won experience, and applying them from your unique perspective.
Using another work for inspiration or understanding technique is no less legitimate for learning than using a mind image which in itself is in some way inspired by the world around you. We all stand on the shoulders of those that came before us. Those that aren't end up being really short.
Artistry tends to work in the same way construction and engineering does. You understand by duplicating what someone more experienced built before you. It's only illegitimate if you try to pass off what you built as work from another.
In the case of the cake recipe, you have a basic formula that makes a "cake". You can vary the ingredients, but in the end you still need a certain basic formula or it's not a cake. There's plenty that goes into making a cake that's beyond what's in the recipe. How you stir the batter, your oven's temperature, quality of ingredients, the materials making your tools and pans, and many other variables determine a cake's appeal. Just because you followed a recipe doesn't make the cake's taste or appearance any less your own. If you end up with a rock because you wanted to be "original" you're a fool.
I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. No one here says that it is "bad". The point is that if you focus exclusively on being original then you will probably fail to learn the basic techniques.
So sure, make some original recipes … but learn first how various kinds of foods interact when you cook. Yes, by all means, strive to make creative new images … but first learn the basics of anatomy and shaving, even if it means copying someone else's work. Once you know how those things work, you can apply them all the better to your own master piece.
So sure, make some original recipes … but learn first how various kinds of foods interact when you cook. Yes, by all means, strive to make creative new images … but first learn the basics of anatomy and shaving, even if it means copying someone else's work. Once you know how those things work, you can apply them all the better to your own master piece.
good heavens no! when I was first beginning how to draw I started by tracing and coloring in and then after about a year finally got used to the motions and was able to start drawing stuff from pictures and then a year after that I could actually draw decent stuff from my imagination. I totally agree. While originality is good, when you are beginning it is best to practice and compare so that one can improve.
The basics on learning to draw on the fundamental level is very difficult to grasp and even harder to teach.
I believe the best and only person who can explain the phenomenon is Betty Edwards, her book and accompanying videos "Drawing on the right side of the brain" has an enormous amount of information and knowledge on the subject. Her Ph.D was based the fundamentals of how to teach the skill of drawing to anyone, talented or not and beginners alike, the style of drawing she specialized in was realistic but the basic ideas and ways of thinking she teaches are used for all styles.
I highly suggest reading her book even if your only intent is to create non realistic and fantasy art.
I believe the best and only person who can explain the phenomenon is Betty Edwards, her book and accompanying videos "Drawing on the right side of the brain" has an enormous amount of information and knowledge on the subject. Her Ph.D was based the fundamentals of how to teach the skill of drawing to anyone, talented or not and beginners alike, the style of drawing she specialized in was realistic but the basic ideas and ways of thinking she teaches are used for all styles.
I highly suggest reading her book even if your only intent is to create non realistic and fantasy art.
I will agree I mean I would love to learn how to draw and have tried some things in the past but when it comes to traditional I SUCK HARD. Digital I am a little better with but I cannot draw well unless I am watching my hand. it is odd. so I am waiting until I can either get a tablet and try using that or a touch screen laptop and using that. but for many yeah it is like that.
As with so many things in life, the whole argument of copying=art-theift can be solved with a big old mallet... wait no, good communication.
Seriously though, if you're trying to learn how to draw and you wish to learn a specific artist's style or method, talk to them. Yeah some are busier than others but at least make an attempt. Don't go off and use their work for reference without at least mentioning your influence -hears the thundering steps of hypocrisy- Yeah I'm not perfect either, but learning from mistakes is how we get better right? <.<;
Ya wanna learn how to art? Talk to artists, ask for help, ask for permission if you want to use their work for reference. Communicate~
If you want to strike out on your own without help, well, best of luck. (insert joke about minimalism here)
Seriously though, if you're trying to learn how to draw and you wish to learn a specific artist's style or method, talk to them. Yeah some are busier than others but at least make an attempt. Don't go off and use their work for reference without at least mentioning your influence -hears the thundering steps of hypocrisy- Yeah I'm not perfect either, but learning from mistakes is how we get better right? <.<;
Ya wanna learn how to art? Talk to artists, ask for help, ask for permission if you want to use their work for reference. Communicate~
If you want to strike out on your own without help, well, best of luck. (insert joke about minimalism here)
I would like to learn the fine art of drawing but "Where do I start?" always comes up. I've casually bounced off the odd tutorial but every "how to draw" book always assumes some level of starting skill I can never seem to muster.
It's different from something like writing where, if you look at enough of it you start to get a vague idea of how to work with it and how to cobble it together. With art I mostly see a finished piece and it's hard to see the raw elements of it.
Mind you I'm at such a poor position to start from with art that it'd take a lot more time and dedication than I have to throw at anything ._.
It's different from something like writing where, if you look at enough of it you start to get a vague idea of how to work with it and how to cobble it together. With art I mostly see a finished piece and it's hard to see the raw elements of it.
Mind you I'm at such a poor position to start from with art that it'd take a lot more time and dedication than I have to throw at anything ._.
This is actually a nice confidence booster [for me at least].
I know I'm not the greatest, but if I can lose the mentality that, "This is terrible" or "Everything must be PERFECT! ", then maybe all those pages in my own sketchbook wouldn't seem so bad.
My friends tell me that I'm not terrible at drawing, but I know I could use improvement. So what I liked to do was not copy, but use a preexisting picture as a model. So I can be like, "So this is what that arm would look like in this position", for example.
I know I'm not the greatest, but if I can lose the mentality that, "This is terrible" or "Everything must be PERFECT! ", then maybe all those pages in my own sketchbook wouldn't seem so bad.
My friends tell me that I'm not terrible at drawing, but I know I could use improvement. So what I liked to do was not copy, but use a preexisting picture as a model. So I can be like, "So this is what that arm would look like in this position", for example.
Mmmm... It's not that I wouldn't like to draw.... I just haven't taken the first steps to learning how to. About the most I've done in recent months is using... stencils are they? The plastic sheets with the holes and lines cut into them to make a shape? Whatever, a few of those I've used.
As unique as my ideas tend to be compared to the content of most people's galleries on this site, I realized early on I won't be able to pull the crazy stuff off for a while as I learn how to draw. Course that might be a good thing, since most people here seem to prefer normalcy (as normal as furries can get anyway) The vast majority of the the most popular pics and galleries here are very vanilla and, well, kinda overdone. Most furries will take a bland buttsex pic over a creative bondage scenario anyday D:
Nobody seems to have issues with that form of copying. Maybe it's just seen so often nobody cares? Different characters, sure, maybe a slight difference in posing, but ultimately the same scene. YCHs take this to the most extreme level. But I guess it's to be expected when our society is so used to flocking to the most familiar stuff...
Before I lose my point, I say if it's possible to be creative, like when commissioning an artist for something, it should be done more often. But you're right too. Can't get all crazy in the beginning when you're still learning. It would just be nice if more artists would branch out of that stage of familiarity once they've gotten good enough to do so, like you have.
Nobody seems to have issues with that form of copying. Maybe it's just seen so often nobody cares? Different characters, sure, maybe a slight difference in posing, but ultimately the same scene. YCHs take this to the most extreme level. But I guess it's to be expected when our society is so used to flocking to the most familiar stuff...
Before I lose my point, I say if it's possible to be creative, like when commissioning an artist for something, it should be done more often. But you're right too. Can't get all crazy in the beginning when you're still learning. It would just be nice if more artists would branch out of that stage of familiarity once they've gotten good enough to do so, like you have.
Very cute comic and very well said Endium.
Im glad your apart of the community and drawing as you feel like you should be. Your art may not be the best out there by "standards" but yours always has a unique flavor to that many of us would be hard pressed to find any where else, and if you ask me thats the only thing that really counts.
Ill be a follower probably until long after you stop drawing, if you ever do.
Im glad your apart of the community and drawing as you feel like you should be. Your art may not be the best out there by "standards" but yours always has a unique flavor to that many of us would be hard pressed to find any where else, and if you ask me thats the only thing that really counts.
Ill be a follower probably until long after you stop drawing, if you ever do.
There is less of the "be original" in the realm of music, but it still exists to a degree. In formal training in music theory and composition, there is a bit of imitation that goes on, however, and I have found that I have learned a lot by imitating the styles of others. I also found that when I stopped worrying about trying to write "original" music and just started working on writing music that I liked, I was able to write a lot more music and sometimes, it just so happened, original ideas occurred. Experimenting with a variety of different styles is what has allowed me to grow creatively. My own sound has, and continues to, evolve from it.
At one point in time, I believe it was not uncommon to do "study" pieces, in both visual arts, and the musical arts, which imitated or replicated the works of others that one found worthwhile. This allowed for learning new techniques and so forth, understanding what another artist had done to create something so that skill could be incorporated into one's own repertoire to do different things.
At one point in time, I believe it was not uncommon to do "study" pieces, in both visual arts, and the musical arts, which imitated or replicated the works of others that one found worthwhile. This allowed for learning new techniques and so forth, understanding what another artist had done to create something so that skill could be incorporated into one's own repertoire to do different things.
If anything, if I were to learn to draw I would use someone elses work and use it to practice drawing, by outlining it or something like that. Once I've used examples of a lot of people's work, I would try drawing something in a blank canvas and see what I can make up, meanwhile testing my art skills and possibly develop a new style of my own. I've noticed that an animator/youtuber known as Domics mention he had done a similar thing in his 'Draw my Life' video, and I reckon that's a great idea.
I wonder if the same thing can be brought to the music industry. maybe try to recreate some songs from your favourite artists, and then make a new, original one from scratch. And let's not forget that inspiration helps so much as well, especially when you have some form of writer's block.
I wonder if the same thing can be brought to the music industry. maybe try to recreate some songs from your favourite artists, and then make a new, original one from scratch. And let's not forget that inspiration helps so much as well, especially when you have some form of writer's block.
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