Thank your for alerting me to this fine story. I though you handled the English well considering it is a second language, and found it easy to read. For the most part I quite liked it, and was impressed with all of the realistic details regarding endangered species conservation and proper captive reptile husbandry. I also enjoyed all the bits about how they were used in films, as corporation mascots, etc.

To be perfectly candid, however, I must say that the story only makes sense to me by imagining the wyverns were no larger than the largest condor. When you stated they were large enough to swallow a human whole, yet docile enough to let a human ride them...... then the notion that they had nearly been exterminated by humans seemed ridiculous, and impossible for me to take it seriously.

Point one, it is FAR more scientifically plausible that these huge wyverns would have exterminated mankind long before the first hominid learned to work stone tools. Lets face it, early primates would be far less dangerous prey than some of the sharp horned cattle you state that they hunt. The ONLY thing that may have saved mankind from wyverns is that the humans may have (not surprisingly) worshipped the wyverns as gods from the earliest times. Perhaps these creatures are intelligent enough to then regard the humans as 'more' than mere food, appreciating their ability to groom them, petting them, tend to their wounds and parasites, feeding them, etc. If not eaten into extinction, the first humans would probably be riding their wyvern "gods" while still in the stone age and our world today would be completely different.

Point two, it is ridiculous to imagine 'medieval' humans exterminating the golden wyverns of your story, just because of some rather stupid fairy tales which only the most ignorant children could take seriously. Since there is no question humans would have either been exterminated or formed a bond with the wyverns thousands of years earlier, the middle ages, and even our modern times would probably be completely different. It is the mindset of the stupidest people to think 'a knight' would be even able to kill something like the dragons of the size you describe. In original medieval art, it took a 'Saint' to kill a dragon only the size of a small pony. Yes, to kill a wyvern even that small size would be an incredible feat of arms. To kill larger wyverns/dragons would be thought utterly preposterous to the earlier peoples who knew how dangerous even a bear or wolf can be, let alone a 40 foot long flying reptile! And could you possibly believe any horse would charge something like a wyvern? Any culture that befriended wyverns would be unbeatable in war and would value these creatures immeasurably.

If mankind did survive a relationship with wyverns, they would hardly be an endangered species, but thriving all over the planet. It would be natural to every human culture to have 'royal' wyverns , treated better than any human because these giant flying creatures would be so valuable. What noble would settle for a mere horse, if wyverns could be made docile enough to ride? Even to the modern day, the 'elites' of every country would still be caring for, and breeding these incredible creatures, the ultimate status symbol. There would undoubtedly be major sports involving humans mounted on wyverns. Airplanes would have probably never been invented when there are docile wyverns capable of flying humans. The knowledge to keep wyverns healthy would have been known since ancient times because they are so valuable. With hundreds, no thousands of years of wyvern husbandry there would be as many different breeds as dogs, some bred to be huge for war or transport, down to dwarf versions for house pets. We would probably see them in every imaginable color at well.

And why would you think humans would think such creatures are even evil and need to be destroyed? In Asian lands the giant flying reptiles are regarded beneficent gods, just as they are in the Mesoamerican cultures. And between these cultures, in Europe and western asia, are you aware that the god of the Bible, worshipped by billions of Christians, Jews, and Muslims is described in those scriptures as a huge golden creature with great wings, horns for hands (talons), breathes smoke and fire, and likes offerings of gold and cattle!

But yes, the wyverns were just another kind of bird of prey, able to carry of the occasional sheep, then yes, your story would make more sense. They would be small enough for humans to hunt, and would have no practical value like a flying mount, though I believe they would still be highly valued hunting creatures, just like falcons in both eastern and western cultures, as well as high status pets, so would have never been in danger of extinction, so even here, it is hard to accept you story as it stand right now.

Thanks for sharing this, and I hope you will consider my points if you write more on this subject. I will be happy to debate any of my views here if you do not think them valid.

Wow, thanks for these in-depth thoughts, and sharing your different mindset on the thing! :)

I outline some of the related thought experiments which lead me to the feel that this could be plausible. There are several things, roughly along the followings:

- These wyverns, unlike the common image of dragons, are rather fragile (imagine something not a whole lot more robust than a Quetzacolatous). They have their strong jaws, but their body is not overly sturdy, especially not their wings. Lions can cripple inexperienced wyverns (and that's referred to in the story). Their skin is neither as sturdy as that of a crocodile or maybe even a large monitor, rather aiming to be light.
- Their hunting style, accordingly, values safety. They follow and observe herds of gnus or even some larger animals (but won't prey on giraffes, hippos or anything like), isolate members by swoop-downs or merely flying low until they are able to crush their chosen prey in a single assault finished by a slam of the legs using their weight or a powerful bite before it could hurt them (Drake has his importance for this: he knows how to hunt safe while the rescues don't).
- I imagined all wyvern species being specialized for hunting on open lands, using the swoop-down crush technique. They couldn't have hunted human even if they wanted to since they wouldn't be able to access them in woodlands.
- The fragile nature contributes to their timid behavior. They avoid trouble which is an important characteristic of this specie: most of their fights also don't involve actually using their weapons, rather only showing off. I imagined them quarreling with lions or hyenas as long as safe, to remind them that they could snap their neck if they attempted to steal their kill, like showing "who's the boss".
- Wywern intelligence is somewhere around apes or dolphins, but is specialized. I have an other story in my mind to reveal this aspect, but shortly the problem of understanding them is based on two key points. One is that they mostly communicate visually, having very low adaption to understanding interaction by voice which prevented people to bring this aspect of them out in full. The other is that they learn a lot, the chicks very much demanding their parents to properly develop their mental capabilities which almost all captives lacked (an another huge problem with rescues which is not yet really known at this point in time). They so can understand a few things, but aren't "smart" like dragons in fantasy are. With careful handling and working on their mental capabilities, they would show very complex behaviors (like dogs, dolphins and apes), but not that complex. (The visualizing aspect uncovers in Mark's descriptions, however at this point they don't yet understand these well enough)

In addition, related to humanity, I navigated along the following concepts:

- The cave wyvern as it occurs in the prologue, was a bruminating specie living on northern areas. Maybe already severely thinned out to the medieval age due to previous ice ages and stuff, maybe even early human. Yes, I just simply used the concept of western (evil) dragon there, and with these I felt it working out (you can do anything to a defenseless bruminating reptile... So it is not likely there was any horse and lance involved in acquiring most of the cave wyvern kills).
- The golds weren't killed by the Chinese or any other nation where they were native, rather died like ancient American civilizations becoming the victim of imperialism. Maybe something similar like the case of elephants, hunted for their tusks, but the wyverns being more fragile and easier to shoot at didn't survive.
- Of course keeping them as high-status pets likely occurred to many, especially with golds (who in this fiction lived until 1928). I didn't portray this aspect, but I imagine the case being similar to that of cheetahs (they were kept alive successfully but never bred). However it is much harder to keep these wyverns alive and well, you definitely should know about this aspect of reptile care. They couldn't have been able to build large open "aviaries", they neither had UV bulbs, temperature and humidity controls and all else in the medieval age so wyverns kept indoor deteriorated and died fast, On areas where they were native flightless golds could have kept in palace gardens, though (and I could definitely refer to such aspect as an afterthought).
- While wyverns in this fiction are timid, they aren't dumb. They are intelligent, and demand affection to bond with a human handler. An older wyvern is less likely to get there if they could fly away, and if they are purposefully constrained or not cared for proper, they could get very much depressed instead of bonding (or the bonding taking years). They have knowledge of the wild and their kin. A captured chick can be bounded easily, but it takes them about fifteen years to reach adult size.
- I think the above two pretty much answer your concerns on why they weren't used for riding (also add that even in the medieval age, a good reflex bow in the hands of a decent archer could have killed a flying wyvern, so it is not such a huge deal to have one considering the effort necessary to get one).

Problems I really-really admit the concept has.

- The exact properties of the wyvern are hard to establish. If they are too fragile, they can't hunt in this style, if they are too robust, they can't soar (I wanted to stick to near realism in this aspect). There is a very thin line to grab to make it working, I likely didn't get it entirely right (for you imagined them being much more powerful than I intended to make them).
- Flying and non-warmbloodedness doesn't mix too well in the reality, I smudged this out with the "semi-warmbooded" reference. I imagined them being able to regulate their temperature to some extent, but also preferring and demanding proper temperatures, basking like normal reptiles, and using their wing-webs for thermoregulation. A soaring creature would be much more efficient if he could withstand the cooler temperatures of higher altitudes, so having more freedom to find suitable thermals and winds to glide.

Of course I had no intentions to discard anything from your in-depth critic by this, just shared my thought, that is, what was in my mind when writing. At the very least I will have to consider why it didn't come through by the writing itself what I intended.

The ideas of worshiping them as gods is something I like, and it would get along well for example with old Egyptian culture. Really, a bit fleshing out, an alternate history for that part, and this brass wyvern (native on their land) could truly end up there within their pantheon. Probably from modern day perspective this is not overly important, but if I went for a true long novel, some sections relating ancient history using these concept, and somehow also blending towards the modern days (European influence spreading, who slain their "dragons") would fit very well in for some additional depth.

Huh, the paragraph before the last... Guess you knew  TwilightSaint ? With Christian religion it is hard to believe it for me now, but I neither know nearly enough of these to judge. It is imaginable though, and could be very much fitting to flesh things out. I think that also works out that with imperialism, the industrial revolution roles changed, ideals went tits up (as they did) eventually getting to that alternate "today". It could raise many conflicts, and likely many real history conflicts could be reshaped (or "remade") to involve relations to wyverns to bring in possibilities to detail and enrich a larger scale story with.

Really, very-very much appreciated the decent feedback! You gave some nice things for me to chew on and consider for later story weaving or world design attempts!

I think our biggest disagreement is that you imagine humans generally fearing, and trying to kill these creatures, whereas I believe they would have been embraced from the earliest times, and humans would thereby have had an 'intimate' relationship that would have lasted to the modern times. This is all based on how you have imagined these creatures, acknowledging humans being able to tame and ride them. Despite this, you think they would have largely gone the way of the wolf -- nearly exterminated, where I believe they would have become as close to humans as dogs, even more so because they can be ridden. Surely ancient people so much closer to nature would have accomplished far more, understanding their behavior before 3,000 B.C. than the modern "Center" could have learned in a few decades. To say they would be useless in warfare because they could be hurt by an arrow is absurd. I am sure their scaly skin is tougher than a horse's hide, and horses have been used in warfare despite the fact that they might be shot. Despite this, very few horses were ever armored, whereas the wyverns would certainly be more protected than virtually any mammals. Besides, their natural scale armor it could be improved upon for such valuable creatures with lightweight linen, rawhide and horn armor that would make them nearly invulnerable. Lighweight grills would have even protected their vulnerable eyes. Even if not employed in direct combat, the Wyverns would be extremely valuable to any army simply for their ability of reconnaissance and relaying messages (with a mounted human of course), so in a short time every army in the world would find them indispensable, and use every means to insure their good health. You already have a strong precedent of humans keeping and breeding birds of prey to hunt with all over the world. These birds were treasured and were some of the most prized possessions of kings, with expert keepers just as the wyverns would be... being far more valuable than any hunting bird.. No knight would be so stupid to kill wild wyverns that produce young offspring they might hopt to capture. I am not surfe why you would also imagine them being vulnerable in the winter if they are warm blooded like birds. It is also a popular misconception that dragons were considered evil in early christianity. In medieval times it was believed dragons were heavenly creatures that would be loosed upon mankind on Judgement Day (based on ancient Jewsih and Christian scriptures. Satan was simply a disobedient heavenly dragon (seraph), though nearly all the rest remained true. Aren't you aware of all the dragon gargoyles on medieval churches represented the 'good' heavenly dragons, and were supposed to frighten away evil spirits? Even two Catholic Popes had proud dragons in their coats of arms, and dragons decorate fountains and other monuments in the Vatican. Dragons decorated nearly everything in Medieval times. None of this would be the case if they were all considered evil and the work of the devil. It is interesting that dragons are Gods in virtually every human culture despite being mythic in all likelihood. But if the Wyverns exitsted, this would surely be even a greater phenomena. I do not mean that the wyverns would be smart enough to 'trick' the humans, but the shamans and holy men might be the first to 'tame' wyverns and make them seem even more godlike than the magnificent beasts already were, claiming the wyverns only speak to them, could bring rain if appeased, etc.. No, I wasn't aware of the Muslim dragon guy, but he seems interesting and I will probably contact him now. But I have been studying dragons in virtually all human cultures for many years and working on an in-depth book about the actual role of dragons in early Jewish and Christian theology which has largely been forgotten or deliberately suppressed. If you look as more of my stories here, you may see a bit more related to this subject.



If domesticated still during the stone age, just like wolves, these wyverns would be present wherever humans were, and they would be bred for different purposes. Think how much all the breeds of dogs are different (some almost twice as large) , have differed from the wolves they were all derived from. Just because 19th century Americans slaughtered the buffalo, wyverns would be far more valuable than horses in 'The West'. Instead of a 'pony express' to deliver mail and messages across the great deserts, there would have likely been a 'Wyvern express'. Wyvern 'cavalry' too, would be far more useful in the wide expanses of the west than horses, as they would be in every other remote place in the world, which is why Wyverns would be commonplace all over the world. Most large sailing ships, and certainly every military one would have likely had a wyvern and rider as well, because of the incredible advantage having aviation assets. I cannot imagine lions attacking these creatures. if they are big enough to swallow a human, they could likely swallow a lion as well, and based on the abilities of large monitor lizards, they could probably knock a lion senseless with a thrashing tail while safely airborne. The knowledgeable pterosaur paleontologist, Mark Witton shows Quetzalcoatlus eating young T-Rexes! The largest of all pterosaurs, Hatzegezpteryx from Romania has the largest skull of any land vertebrate, with a bill wide enough (almost a meter) to swallow an adult human. One flying Wyvern with its 40 -50 foot wingspan would send the horses of a whole army fleeing in terror. All of history could have changed with the existence of the Wyverns. for example, china may have never been conquered by the Mongol horse armies, if the Chines had flying dragons to terrify the horses.

It is hard to say if there would even be the same 'industrial revolution' if there were wyverns, given how much they would have changed things. But even if there was, horses have been such a part of human culture that they are still retained for hunting, riding, tradition and status, just as the wyverns would be. It is for all these reasons, that I just cannot take seriously your idea that they would be nearly exterminated by the 20th century. Quite the contrary, with the increase of human population, there would probably be more wyverns in the world 'now' than ever before because they would be such incredible creatures, closer to us than dogs and horses since before recorded history And with increased scientific knowledge, they would likely be many more breeds and healthier than ever before.

Yes, average people keeping reptiles as pets is a relatively new thing, and accordingly many people don't know how to care for them, particularly since today we live in such artificial environments. But this could not be compared with 'Wyvern husbandry' that might have been a human 'science' and profession going back to the stone age, with virtually every noble or royal person in virtually every culture feeling he needed the status of having a riding wyvern -- even in the 21st century. This is why, as much as I like your writing, the story of the wyverns on the brink of extinction seems completely unbelievable to me. It is as far fetched as saying horses and dogs would similarly be on the verge of extinction today, and even more so, given that wyverns would be more valuable to the human elite for several millennia than either horses or dogs.

Wow! Now I wish there was a way to fave replies... :) (OK, you got it anyway: likely sometime in the next week I will spend some time reading your work and picking something I like)

Yes, true, sloppy research in that part... This wyvern story was just about two months of work, getting me inspired by my own drawing so much I felt now I really have to try expressing myself in English. Sloppy research... and apparently, misconceptions. History-wise I am most interested in ancient times and about the past hundred years for different reasons, almost entirely missing the medieval age, not having much more knowledge of that than told by educational history books which skip on these aspects. So I took it for granted, and imagined the cave wyvern having a more rugged, dark, in general scary design to work out as dragon by the evil conception. Like that told to be slain by Saint George. But if I really give it thought, if they were considered all evil, heraldry wouldn't use them that prominently for a start. Guess I really need to do more research in this region if I wish to do modern day dragon concepts.

Warm bloods, cold bloods. As I told I settled for a "semi-warmblooded" concept so I could apply general reptile husbandry concepts without too much afterthought. Making them warm-blooded would probably even require somewhat different appearance, better insulation than a scaly skin (like other warm-blooded reptiles had, even including pterosaurs). Combined with flying it is one of the "it just doesn't work out" aspects also considering the cold temperatures at higher altitudes. Otherwise I use furry or feathered warm-blooded flyers (the dragon of the cheetaan universe), this time I simply wanted to draw a soaring scaly (conventional dragon-like) creature which got me here. Sticking to the concept however brings its own limitations, such as not allowing the brass wyvern to exist in regions with cold winters (those in this fantasy were the domain of the cave wyverns who got around the problem by brumination).

Conventional riding needs some additional design. A big problem is that (if you look at the image) the wyvern have it's wing web anchored somewhere on the spine on his entire back, not allowing for a saddle to be fastened securely. I kept looking at the design wondering how it could be done with no decent idea. I settled with that in the modern age, filming, they used only some saddle mock-ups maybe fastened around the neck somehow also loosely secured to the hind legs, imagining they weren't ridden before, and so movie industry would use horseback concepts even if it didn't fit. Sure if they were ridden from the ancient times, the proper methodology and science of it should have been well established. I see it likely that they would mostly lay flat on their back on some appropriate "saddle", maybe in situations rising on the knees and elbows (similar to proper striding with horses) to avoid bruises on the chest. This is the most aerodynamically sound solution anyway. If they needed to act such as using a bow, they could sit up.

Warfare I think really needs a lot more to settle with. These wyverns' take-off loading capacity in my imagination is around 250 kilos (it is already a lot, about a third of their own weight), but that even excludes the meat they might consume. So after adding an equipped rider and some headroom for him to fill up, you get at best around 100 kilos to utilize for wyvern armor and accessories for a quite large body although vital areas are by no doubt less: minimally they should have only their underside plated, the neck, the chest down to the tailbase, and the arms so their muscles on which their ability to fly depends are sufficiently protected (a further problem though is that how you attach these pieces of armor, again the wing webs getting in the way). They are very different to horses relating expendability for that they are much slower to mature demanding a lot more husbandry even in regions where they are native (their intelligence may also be a factor here).

The idea of messengers, postal service ("wyvern express") are quite nice coming easily for a medieval setting once you have tame wyverns to use. Information is power, the fast delivery of information is invaluable, so no matter how expensive their care is, there are many situations where it could pay off great. This is fun, it would provide for many epic adventures if set up in a proper world, you gave some nice pointers for that.

Swallow a lion... Er... Alex was exaggerating with his outburst there for having seen a wyvern in reality in such a close proximity for the very first time. While a human could definitely fit through their jaw, they would need time (like a python for example) to pull off this feat (I didn't consider how they actually ate their prey though). With a lion this wouldn't work out that well. A single lion or a few is no real threat to them: with their long necks they can protect their fragile parts (wing webs, fingers, tailfins) being all fierce jaws. A pack of lions however can cripple them, breaking a wing, then the wyvern unless he has a mate or friends to feed him until healing, would die. The slow clumsy creature on the ground wouldn't be able to hunt. I imagined the lion or hyena related threats like this: both of those tend to live in large packs and while they normally stay away from wyverns, an inexperienced rescue (on the ground) can get in such a situation with those which ends with him being severely mauled (of course likely sitting on a pile of dead hyenas or lions). Wild wyverns are not bold, they mostly avoid confrontation, and sometimes the large carnivores expect this happening. Maybe you imagined them a bit larger than they really are: they have fifteen meters wingspan (50 feet), the head and neck being around two meters (7 feet), the jaw around sixty or seventy centimeters (2 feet) long. I didn't consider them using their tail offensively for they have valuable flight control surfaces on it (see the image and Jake's description in the story) which would even complicate such in-air uses, their primary weapons rather being the jaws and hind legs (and yes, I was toying with the thought of an enraged wyvern slamming lions to the ground).

I liked this idea since it is different to the commonplace fantasy, and to some degree felt passing. I had some other (not cheetaan related) concepts of modern day dragons, I guess it would be interesting to polish some world where today's technology, civilization and these creatures meet up in a plausible manner. This isn't covered much in any decent writing (or I simply didn't find such yet).

Maybe some other time I will attempt to get a new story done keeping your considerations in mind, I really wonder how it could work out, what kind of epics it could bring!

I really cannot imagine lions attaching predatory reptiles whose 50 foot wingspan could literally block out the sun. Anthropologists say that the only thing that saved the human race from African predators was by walking bipedally we appeared 'bigger' and therefore more menacing than they really were.
Think how much more terrifying a wyvern would appear to any animal in the world than a mere human? Yes, a pack of lions might even attack an elephant, but they know it is a herbivore. Plus, as you say, the intelligent and social wyverns would likely come to the aid of fellows in distress. Considering the fact that even some birds use tools, the far more intelligent wyverns, especially with human contact, could have used tools as well to make them far more dangerous and never put themselves at risk.
For example, clutching a long, light, fire hardened spear in their talons, to skewer prey or potential enemies without ever getting close enough to be injured. Or dropping fairly large rocks on them. They could practice this to become very adept. If they did confront humans with evil intent, with their greater animal senses, they could always keep out of range of spears and arrows, but attack vulnerable humans in retaliation. Much like the adult komodo dragon or large crocodilian species, the wyverns would essentially be at the top of their food chains with no natural enemies. As I said before, I believe some wyverns and humans, much like wolves/dogs and humans, would have been established symbiotic relationships very early on in human development, probably with shamans and priests presenting the wyverns as gods.

As for riding them, which you state is possible, it would not dissuade people if they had to lay flat on their backs, for they could still scout and deliver messages this way. People with tame wyverns could travel to places in mere hours that would normally take days, and be far safer without the danger of robbers or dangerous animals on the ground. And with thousands of years of human-wyvern contact, I believe better ways of riding would develop. With minor harness, a human could probably ride bareback, but on their folded knees. One of my best known books, which I think I mentioned before, and printed in Europe in four different languages involves experimental archaeology in our reconstructions and testing Roman saddles riding across Europe. From my own experiences with this, I think it would be possible to develop easier ways to ride a wyvern than flat on its back.

As for medieval humans slaughtering half frozen, hibernating wyverns in their caves (yes I saw that TV special too), I think it far more likely wyverns would do the same thing as the other largest carnivorous flyer in Northern Europe would do (Storks), and that is to fly south for the winter. And as stated before, by medieval times, humans and wyverns would be living together for thousands of years, and having a tame wyvern would be the goal of every noble with the means of maintaining one.

Oh, Saint George was actually a Roman soldier and for centuries no dragon is mentioned in the story. Years later, a bishop added this to his book about saints to make his story more interesting, and it was simply a copy of the old Greek Perseus legend. Most of the other European dragonslayer stories were actually farces created in the protestant reformation to ridicule the stories of papist saints including St. George.

Yes, those seem to be quite fair points. Guess better not attempt to do some larger story with just about a month of world design next time :) (I purposefully wanted to keep things simple around this idea so it could develop to be coherent)

Being scary large is also something I really have to admit I didn't overly consider. Experienced wyverns on the ground could even use a "frilled lizard trick" with their wings suddenly looking so terribly ginormous that even a lion would die on the spot out of fright. I mostly though about raw physical strength and robustness when considering these aspects which robustness they lack, and settled for an idea where the wild wyverns and other large carnivores coexist without a lot of direct confrontations, both rather avoiding it (the wyvern for that there is always a risk of potentially fatal wing or tailfin injury, the lions for that they simply can not truly win such a fight no matter their numbers). Rescues however doesn't even know how to hunt and fight properly, how to keep themselves safe.

The intelligence part wasn't really covered. I considered them preferring solitary prowling, their hunting tactic itself doesn't even much demanding working in packs (however they could herd that way), while for their size they neither face real threats which they could avoid together. They however are monogamous cooperating in raising their chicks (the story showing an aspect of how it could be advantageous), also maintaining some other connections which they may depend upon. A notable mental capability of them would be the ability to convey identifications of locations and flight "plans" so they could maintain contacts (by some kind of visual language whose elements and evolutionary basis I sketched up). How they could actually help each other in need? I simply thought about regurgitation, it is quite commonplace, and in the case of wyverns it could be efficient (their tactic allows them to hunt large prey relative to their size, they can gorge themselves up to about a third of their weight so they can still take off and carry it to their mate for example).

Of course the trait of having that simple visual language could also help human using them. In my fantasy with the assumption of not having them discovered as companions, I imagined it wasn't yet truly understood (people attempting to teach them to interpret voice which I assumed they have no adaption to use this manner, neither to perform complex controlled vocalization). With your ideas it would definitely work since long, and would already have a considerable impact on humanity (such as valuing the deaf who become adept with sign language, interpreting tiny motions, and so come to also have a natural superior talent in understanding wyverns).

The books, well, Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth was definitely one of my sources for understanding English. I liked many aspects of it, decent fantasy (and Scarlet's character really didn't leave me disappointed), but I felt other aspects lacking a bit. I didn't yet order the other you mentioned back then (Terry Brooks' Magic Kingdom), maybe I will do this year. I didn't know about the TV special you mentioned (I don't watch TV since more than a decade, and this is Hungary, I dunno what even reaches here from what you have over there), it entirely came as own idea. But well, considering they fly, there is really nothing preventing them traveling south... Provided they can survive there (competing with gold and brass wyverns for that half of the year if I keep those, but maybe it would demand a bit different specie design and overall behaviors).

The concept of nobles flying a wyvern could bring up some complex world designs. For references the beginnings of the feudal age could serve as pointer when basically the capability to maintain a horse and acquiring the necessary accessories were the ticket for nobility. However that world is likely very different not even just the manner you describe. The wyvern could glide far off, and until the modern age, sure there weren't even any possibility to prevent this except by having own wyverns. Our concepts of countries and nations simply wouldn't likely exist since even if only the nobles flew, they definitely would do so making diplomacy quite different.

If wyverns had some characteristic own intelligence that would again complicate things greatly (and I have such a concept sketched up somewhere... how politics and wars would work out if the dragons, the most important force of the military, had their own ideas of the thing completely independent of whatever petty humans were planning).

Overall getting a modern technology dragon fiction like my attempt proves to be something utterly complex. First it is necessary to sketch out the medieval style aspects (how things work out until the presence of these large flying creatures, their role in human civilization is decisive), then how the industrial revolution would take place in this environment (I don't think it wouldn't), and then how the relation to them would form in a high technology civilization which necessarily keeps having firmly embedded traits based on dragon presence in their culture and daily life, however no longer truly needing them. Holy hell, this gets even more complicated than anything in my cheetaan universe... :p (maybe my shiriat race being the closest to this chain of events with their cyats)

I think if the classic, large, highly intelligent, long lived and usually 'magical' dragons of the mainstream fantasy genre actually existed in a 'world', that world would probably never attain 'modernity' as we know it. Such creatures would realistically be the masters of that world, having evolved long before humans. It would be to their advantage to keep the humans relatively primitive, letting them evolve only far enough to provide the dragons with fat domestic animals, distilled beverages and treasures, but never letting them become so technologically advanced they could ever be a threat to them. They might also instill in them that they are their gods to assure obedience and loyalty. If magic were somehow real, dragons would keep it a closely guarded secret and likely eliminate any human that had the potential to use it. This isn't to say such dragons would automatically be 'evil', quite the contrary they may be much loved by their human subjects (if the dragons prudently avoided things like demanding maiden offerings). If the dragons themselves did not war on each other, such a world might be something of a utopia to the humans, with no wars to ravage the lands as in our own world. With dragon overlords we likely would not live in the polluted, overcrowded, and war torn world we have today, but something more akin to a perpetual, idyllic, agrarian-based Hobbit 'shire' of Tolkien's imagination.

One way of putting dragons in the modern world is to simply have them appear, having been in hiding for centuries since the old legends about them. I touched on this with a short story in my gallery about 2012, mainly because the Maya had predicted that their flying serpent 'dragon' god Kukulcan would return on that date (though some archaeologists state the date was miscalculated so we may see him yet! You might also enjoy reading Picnic Tables of the God's which touches on the ancient dragon gods of humanity.

I like this approach and actually this occurs in my cheetaan universe (by the cheetaan dragons who are quite powerful and intelligent, enough to thrall humanity once their technological superiority is shaken... it is much more complex than this naturally, those dragons even independent of cheetaan would develop some very intricate situations in the distant future, good or bad, depends on the point of view, there being about five major forces competing for establishing a surviving nation).

Using my wyverns who aren't that powerful (neither in body or intelligence) would permit humanity to remain superior and build up technological civilization the way we know it. I thought a bit about it. Even if I assume today's environment present, those wyverns could retain many roles. First thing popped in my mind was postal service in rural roadless regions such as Africa, the "third world". They also could help other animal conversation efforts, in general any field projects in remote places. Being silent, flying low, below the detection capabilities of radars they could even serve some minor military purposes (it happened especially here in Hungary: a few years ago to demonstrate our leaky system someone flew a small plane over the Danube from Serbia up to Budapest without anyone noticing. He flew past Paks, Hungary's nuclear power plant... Guess no more elaborations are necessary). Of course the modern day rich people could also have them, not even just as pets, but also for personal package delivery. Aviation clubs would also likely have some, organizing their husbandry in community, for the unique experience of their soaring. Then of course anything I already wrote about in the novel.

Why I like this approach is that it is unique, having a feel of realism, it could be set up in the world we know so we could relate while still giving an impression of fantasy. I like "normal" fantasy, but I miss the modern world from those. Not that I so much love how humanity behaves today (atrocious is not even the right word for that), but I would simply like to blend these together. Something like Robert Merle was doing with A Sentient Animal (Cold war politics combined with dolphin intelligence research), although obviously portrayed from different perspectives for my abilities and preferences.

I also have a concept somewhat like what you describe here which I wanted to start realizing as a webcomic but set aside. In that dragons would exist with strong magic tied to the dragons themselves, but modern technology as we know it also being present except for aviation. A particular interesting aspect of these dragons would be their millenary of lifespan which by their aura of magic they share with one person who could bond with them (but also having slight effect on everyone in their proximity). In summary their attitude towards humanity is roughly mostly letting them be, them even being sort of amused by their petty quarrels, taking part in the game as air forces of the nations. The dragonriders bonded with them would be quite special for their long life and their whole situation with the dragon. They have telepathy, but initiated by the dragon who can practically see in their mind any time. I imagined deep psychological struggles, the rider witnessing history for his specialty, deaths, past friends turning on each other, the development of politics, while the same time being addicted to "his" dragon on who his life depends and who sees all his intentions. Some can live with that. Others could end up overpowered, depressed, derailed by it like a drug addict clinging on the dragon unable to die in a perpetual fear. Dragon personalities especially towards human, their rider also vary. Some respect them, some are compassionate in their struggles, others could be even outright evil. The same time of course politics shapes the world continuously, I imagined covering roughly the events around the world wars, just on a similar basis.

If you mentioned the Hobbit 'shire'... Well, just today I walked home after job with a huge grin on my face: I accidentally spotted all three episodes of the Lord of the Rings movie in the discount bin at the local supermarket! At fifteen dollars it was a bargain. I probably saw it once, and I really wished to have it especially after reading the books a few times. Now I have it, wonder what it will be like!

I think I mentioned before the Temeraire books. These dragons are much like your wyverns, in that that are not magical, or so intelligent or powerful to be the dominant species, so the human race develops pretty much the same way as ours, and the story is set in the period of the Napoleonic Wars. But rather than being eradicated, the dragons are recognized for all of their potential since ancient times, and over hundreds, even thousands of years, were bred into larger versions, some of which had full fighting crews like great sailing ships. In Europe the dragons were pretty much regarded as beasts of burden despite their intelligence, whereas in other lands they co-rule like in China and Incan South America. One American dragon is a rich trader and business'man' who owns his own ships! I think there are about 10 of these books now, with one more which will be the finale.

Glad you enjoyed the first chapter of Smaug.

Huh, now that you mention I remember. Well, one more thing for my wish-list, guess I will need to assemble a good package at Amazon soon (with such things in addition like Jonathan Swift's Gulliver, Defoe's Robinson, maybe some Jack London titles and a few other in original English)!

Ironically then, I think you will find Naomi Novik's Temeraire books fitting in very well with those classics, for the author went to great effort in making the dialogue and mannerism true to the period. Even the more sophisticated dragons in the stories share these traits which makes them all the more fun to read. I was sad to see the series ending with the next book.