I respect you for sticking to your beliefs.

Not everybody understands that, to Southerners, the flag is much more of a symbol of heritage than it is racism. It's been heavily used for racism, and I'm glad they took it down from the State capital, but people should be able to fly it if they want. People are just too easily offended over fabrics. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You still can fly it if you want. It just can't be on public ground anymore.

Did they rule that? I thought they just removed it from municipal buildings.

Oh well, I really don't care so much about a flag. It's a symbol to people. It means different things to different people.

By public I meant government. And it's a symbol of hate to everyone except southerners. Who are probably still upset they can't own slaves anymore.

We had firemen saluting my truck. Had cops giving us the thumbs up. So far only people that seems offended by this flag is white people. We had a couple African Americans coming up to us saying thanks for flaying this flag. *shrug* And hey I'm seeing Northerns flying this flag too.

I live in the South; no, that's not true at all. Most of us have black friends.

Yes, there's still prejudice. Yes, they're still close-minded and hate the North. But nobody really gives a fuck about slaves anymore. The only really racist people you'll find here are old people because when they grew up, the internet didn't exist and reading was overrated. So their parents told them what to believe, and here we are.

Racism is really not that much of a problem here anymore.

The biggest issue is strict, extreme religious values and anti-LGBT+ stuff. Even then, I just came out as gay to my family, and most people were distantly supportive, which is better than nothing.

''I live in the South; no, that's not true at all. Most of us have black friends.''
That sounds like the excuse people use when they try to say they are not racist: ''I can' bet racist, I have x friend'' or ''I can't hate gays, I have gays friends''
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Friend_argument

I wasn't saying that to prove that there's no racism in the south. There totally is. The point I was refuting is this: "...to everyone except southerners. Who are probably still upset they can't own slaves anymore."

If we wanted them enslaved, we wouldn't bother ever talking to them on any sort of personal level. We'd be looking down at them like objects. Considering nobody sane does this, I'd say that my argument is fairly supported.

I see what you're getting at. Relevant: That shitty, oppressed white Christian video that people made, looking all sad about not being able to persecute gays. That one guy says "Don't get me wrong, I have gay friends, but I don't want them to have the same rights as I do :D"

But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. There's a difference between Slavery and just plain Racism. Racism is prejudice against a person. Wanting to enslave a race is worse as this takes them to a lower standard than people; objects. Objectification of a person is the worst low.

To put it in TL;DR format - I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but that the desire for slavery isn't really existent in this area at this point in time. It's a dumb and weird argument to make, but honestly, this whole topic is dumb and weird. We're getting worked up over a flag. Just put it in a museum and carry on!

Yeah I fly it everyone but if I stop by a place. Say StarBucks cause that's where I am at. I take it down.

My brother had a gay friend who got beat to death because he had pro-LGBT stickers on his car in South Carolina (I live here too, by the way.)

So I suppose it's a similar situation in that sense, but I doubt anybody's going to kill you over the flag.

i dont even understand its signifigance to American History i just see it as a Flag that has history to it thats it same with the Nazi Flag their historical Artifacts nowadays they had their Signifigance when they were used in the time of War but now theyre just part of history i just hope that i didnt confuse you or make you ticked off

As I said I respect others of their options on this flag. :3 I'm not that easily to get mad at others over their options.

alright good i dont like making people mad i do understand that it used to be a symbol of hate but a Scientific and Historical Mind thinks about stuff like that in more ways than one

This is true. Just replace "Confederate Flag" with "Swastika" and "African Americans" with "Jews" in an alternate dimension and we'd have about the same type of argument here.

Some Germans may, even today, claim it's Heritage to fly the Nazi symbol as well. I dunno, though.

Should do a bit more research on what that flag stands for before you think "heritage" Good job on offending every black person who sees this.

im Black and i domt find it offensive

Then you don't know anything about it. I suggest you do a bit more research.

i know that its the Confederate Flag and they have slaves but i dont care about that i dont see it as a symbol of hate i see it as a Historical Artifact

Yes, you can see it like that. Because it is. But it's a historical artifact that represents a group of treasonous people who fought a war against their own nation for the sole purpose of keeping their right to own another human being.

yeah 200 years ago but thats long past none of that should matter anymore

Well then... why don't we fly the Nazi flag too? That's history. Don't bitch at me when I fly that because it's "heritage"

It's the same thing.

because its still offensive plus theres still Neo Nazi's living in todays day and age

Even though it was originally used for Religion use that the Nazi took to use for themselves.

i know about the Manji

Ha ha We have done research on this flag. Well my friend has. And what's funny is this flag isn't the real Confederate Flag. This is: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe.....es_of_America_(1861-1863).svg/1280px-Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_(1861-1863).svg.png

And I have friends who are African American and I love them all. As I said I do not see this as Racism at all. Considering we have African Americans flying this flag themselves calling it their freedom and fighting to keep this flag flying.

If I did offend someone. I am sorry from the bottom of my heart. But this is just my beliefs.

There were 3 flags flown around that time. The second and third one used the current design in the corner. (You could have sent those the link just doesn't work. But I'm hoping you sent the first one, having the stars and stripes to represent the original 13 colonies.) The flag currently seen as the confederate flag was used in the 60s as a "fuck you" to de-segregation. So if that's the heritage you want to represent, good for you. Just because you choose to be ignorant doesn't change the fact that it represents slavery and treason. It's not about opinions on what the flag means. It's about what it DOES mean, and what it was used for in history. Which you obviously choose to ignore.

Back in 1981 I believe? Can't remember the year. This flag was flown as a war flag to fight for our rights. This flag was just taken by BOTH the south and north for the slave thing and was fought over that. Yeah it was used in the slavery days. But it can go both ways. It can go for what you believe in. But it can also go as freedom to others.

So, using that logic, we could fly a Nazi flag into battle tomorrow and it would be okay? Perfect.

Since churches uses the symbol on that flag for Religions uses. That the Nazi took for their own use.

I might respond to that if you reword it into a coherent sentence.

The swastika is a religious symbol the Nazis took for themselves, not a symbol of hate. People still display swastikas because that is how they view that symbol.

That's why I said "nazi flag"

Maybe read next time.

The swastika alone is found offensive because of the Nazis, it doesn't have to be on the red flag.

I'd love it were you to read this comment and the one before it to see how hard you just failed.

Its seen as a symbol of 'fuck you' to our government today. Yes, the war it was waved around in was over whether or not the federal government could tell the states what they can not do, owning slaves used as the biggest example, but anyone (or most) who sides with waving the flag today do not wish for slavery or segregation, but rather for our government to stop act like they can make our laws for us. And then there are those who fly it as a way to commemorate what happened for us to be here today. Very few, minor selection chooses to use it for hate and desegregation. In fact, if it werent for the KKK, this flag wouldn't be as associated with racism as it is today.

The American flag has been around longer than the rebel flag. Through slavery and segregation of the Japanese Americans. WeIts a symbol of our ' treachery' to great Britain. The American flag itself causes offense to people of other nationalities. But we still wave it with pride as those who take pride in it kill those they're suppose to protect. Why are we still waving this flag?

We have done our research. If you're offended by a symbol, sorry. But we're not taking it down for your misinterpretation of why its being flown.

It's* a symbol of our treachery.

Let people be offended. I offend people of faith all of the time by just saying my opinions. It doesn't mean anything, they carry on with their lives.

This flag means different things to different people. To one regular southerner, it could represent their state's heritage. To a member of the KKK, it could represent years of fighting against the "oppressive black folks who dare oppose God" or something of the likes.

It doesn't deserve to fly at the Capital, though, but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to fly it at all. Let them have their opinions as you have yours.

The South shall rise again.

Hey, we're cool with you rising, just dont try to own people or shove religious beliefs on us and we're good.

Oh god, don't tell me you're one of the people who signed a change.org petition about seceding.

You're not really going to do anything, let's be honest.

If you're joking, cool :D If not, cool too I guess.

I mean, a gay black drag queen once had a FAAABULOUS dress with that flag, sequent and everything. So I don't think that flag is really a symbol of hate at all.

Must I remind that Japan still uses their anthem from the old Nazi days and nobody says a thing? Just sayin' it's just a symbol of pride of what it is NOW, and acceptance of the past.

At least that's how I see it.

Japan is very traditional, though. It's hard for them to let go of traditions that they've had for centuries.

They still endorsed Gay Marriage. It's allowed, but no benefits.

Yes, I do understand that, but if they are not being asked to let go those traditions, I do not think it's fair that we ask people from the South to do so.

Times have changed, and taking pride in the South is nothing to be ashamed of, the flag, IF I understand it correctly, now represents the southern states, so it's not really a nazi flag either

I believe it just looks bad for the state to fly a flag that's flown by such infamous, racist hate groups. I have nothing against it, but I have something against the people who fly it with hateful intent.
The State shouldn't be involved in something so controversial, hence why they took it down. A lot of my southern family members are disappointed in the Governor, but if the Governor DIDN'T take it down, imagine the backlash from the rest of the world. Social justice would be out of control over it

I see why it looks bad, but it doesn't have to be that way. We can evolve for the better, and understand that even though the south DID have quite a bit of bad history, it can be seen as a rebirth as well, a NEW pride that doesn't involve hating or owning other people.

Yes, but doing this is going to be hard, considering the way the south thinks is very conservative and hard to change. They stick to old values easily.

It'll take a few generations, I believe, of Southern people until they catch up with the rest of the world.

I believe that, and I also think that even though it's going to be hard, it's still something we have to strive for.

We'll see. I won't be here for much longer (the south I mean).

I was supposed to visit, but some other things happened that made that impossible. Oh well, some other time I'll visit it

Well pup you know me you know I'm a reasonable guy and sadly unlike you I am a yankee XD but I'm always kinda mixed about this flag cause see here we DO have ignorant rednecks using it as a sign of hate but see here's the thing about America it's the land of the free including free speech and this flag has some bad rap to it but it's also a sign of the rebels and it's STUPID to take it down cause it's stupid people that hurt people not a flag I'm not here nor there with the flag but it's a important part of amican history and more importantly it's a important part of your heritage so fly that flag pup lol

lol Yeah We have a few Rednecks like that. For peaks sake the KKK is threatening to kill every African American cause of this flag. :/ Which is making it worst to show that isn't really a bad flag. XP But hey I respect you for your options and thank you for respecting mine ^^

it's cause it IS stupid to take it down lol and see my dad and I was talking about this the other day and I told him "well if pup brings it up I'll start caring" cause I respect your opinion cause you're awesome lol

I honestly have no opinions against people who fly confederate flags. I have a neighbor who owns a truck with both the US and Confederate flags on the back corners of his truck. which, to be honest, their size makes it kind of a visibility hazard for him, but I never minded that he had the flag up. But unfortunately, others don't see it that way.

the only reason i'd not like it for someone to be proudly showing their colors is when they act terrible to other people. no reason for me to respect someone if they're not going to respect me or others back.

So yeah. I definitely respect you because you're willing to show your colors, but also respect others for their opinions.

Yeah I have to switch the flag pole to the other side of my truck cause of visibility issues. Side it's on I don't have a side mirror (Broke it twice XD) and gotta look behind me to see if I'm clear to switch lanes and all I see is a flag XP So for safety reasons I'm moving my flag to the other side lol

Yeah I don't like others like that. I was raised and taught to respect others of their Religions, Beliefs, Options and all the sort. Even if I don't like nor agree with it. I can't change someone for believing what they believe in. And I just find it easier to give ones respect. You get that respect back in return.

And thank you for respecting me of my option ^^

Happy stars for everyone. :D

there are 2 different confederate flags people dont seem to understand the one your representing is the one used for history the other one is the one used by kkk and others that are racist as fuck...

people that hate your opinion dont know the difference in the flags and i salute you for holding that flag up and letting it wave in the air...

hold your head up high sweety.

Thank you very much. :3

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lost_C.....e_of_the_South

Yeah we been doing research on the flag and know about that. :3

Then you can understand why people see it as a symbol of racism, since history is not helping :3 (and the KKK too these days, for they want to bring it back to public space, which is really not a good thing if you want to remove this symbolism from it >.>)

Yeah the KKK in our area are threatening to kill every African American just to get this flag back up... Which pisses me off cause they took this flag as their own for their beliefs when most KKK members you see them with the America Flag more so then this flag. But there's more to it then that link you provided.

Honestly, a flag is a flag to me - it holds no historical significance to me, but to others a flag can hold a significance to it and i respect and support their choices in that matter. If this is what makes you happy, and makes you proud to be who you are - then that's perfectly fine and I'm happy that you're willing to share that with others, regardless of what they may think of you. Takes alot of gall to do that, and I respect and look up to that.

Thankfully we live in America, where you as an individual posses the right to fly this flag(even if I myself dislike the flag) and I would die fighting for your right to do so.

To me this flag represents nothing honorable having gone through much of the southern secession documents and speeches, but then again, neither does the Nazi flag and nazi's are still allowed to form rallies and marches in this country under police protection. So if they can have that right, then you can have your flag too.

Also please don't use the "I have black friends" argument. It is massive SJW bait and will only flood the "OMG PREJUDICE" feelings about, which you don't deserve regardless of disagreement. It's just better to say "I like and will fly this flag because X" and make a strong positive statement in itself. Don't feel the need to back down.

You go girl. I know what I am doing for your Raffle win now.

lmao Yes ;w;

:3

I thought it was a battle flag. Then adopted as the rebel flag.

It is the War Flag :3

I thought so lol

Thinking about flying one off my car

If you're flying a flag because you see it as a symbol of southern pride and heritage and not as a symbol of racism or hate, then do whatever you want, as long as you're aware of any possible consequences, and it looks to me like you're already prepared for that.

I know you're not a hateful person hun, after all, I know you very well and I know you're a very loving person~ I know your friends all feel the same way too; I've already interacted with them, lol. So whatever anyone tells you, the best way to deal with them is to explain that anything can mean a lot of different things to different people and you respect their views and perceptions of a symbol and that you have your own perceptions of the same symbol that aren't meant to be negative. Most importantly, don't let anyone belittle you like NoctuaNoctis is doing. I've dealt with this sort of thing before with people demonizing me because of what *I* grew up with...

Regarding the nazi flag, well, let's put it this way: had it not been for the holocaust, Hitler would've been considered one of the most intelligent men in history. And there is a lot of truth to that if you're willing to look past his genocidal track record. He invented highways. He paved the way for scientific advancement. And I dunno if this was Hitler himself, but the nazi party also advocated against smoking. This is not to say I idolize Hitler, quite the contrary, but as someone who's thankful to have highways (try living in NJ without 'em), and as someone who hates smoking and loves science, I'd probably have my own reasons for flying the nazi flag. But of course, I won't because I'm not the kinda guy who likes to attract unwanted attention. But if I ever chose to, and someone approached me, I'd give them my own reasons for flying it. Above all, it would also give me a reason to feel thankful that I live in a country where I could choose to fly any flag I want without being seized by the government. And that's exactly why I feel that you should have a right to support any flag~

Speaking of other flags, what I find strange is how various companies (like Apple) are taking down the confederate flag but not the nazi or ISIS flags, which I find really weird. I mean, I would imagine both of those flags being far more offensive than the confederate flag but they get left alone. If you're gonna take down any flag for offensive reasons, it's only fair to either take down other offensive flags along with it, or leave every flag as they are. It's a crazy double standard we're seeing here.

Well, as much as I hate to say this... I respect when people are willing to stick to their principles, but I have to stick to mine too. I cannot view this flag in any sort of good light and, although it may not mean the same to all, I can't continue to support someone who flies it.

All the best.

I don't like it and I honestly think all the reasoning behind it is just the same reasoning people have behind using slurs and nonsense. I mean I'm not gonna cause a fit about it, but honestly I don't believe it's as easy as saying "Imma use it for this"

But hey..again, I'm not about to sit here and pitch a fit because someone did a thing I think is dumb. You do you. You live your life. You're the one who has to deal with it. Not me.

Who drew the picture?

It's a photograph :x

Oh. It really looks like a painting. -blinks-

Yeah I use a filter on it from InstaGram when I posted this to there.

Ahh, that explains it.

Let me just wear this clan uniform and burn this cross in my nabours front yard because its important to my history as a white man it's not racest its traditional right?

This is the exact same argument and justifying ithis is fucking ridiculous that is a racest flag your flying, and that's cut and dry it may have at one point been a proud flag for that section of the USA but those same people where the ones who fought TO KEEP SLAVERY LEAGAL, that IS a flag of hate and yes regarding the nazi flag, Hitler did do many great things but he's not remembered for that is he? No he is remembered for the holocaust.

I do not only strongly disagree with your opinion I think it's out right wrong, and I will be unwatching you for being so wrong if I could muster anymore fair criticism I would but honestly the shock and rage this action has caused in me is so much to the point that I don't want to just start slinging insults at you.

I do wish you all the luck in the world and encourage you to take the time to realize what a huge mistake your making even though it's clear you don't see it that way

This is her post, please try to be respectful of their choice and just limit it to saying that you disagree? not that hard

Some things bring out more rage... and for good reason

It's still her post is all I'm saying, I get some people would be enraged, but a simple "I disagree and because of this I'm unwatching you" not all omg need to insult someone lemme yell at you on your own post.

Her post is a public forum is all I'm saying. Sometimes yelling is warranted.

on someone elses post and opinion when they could've easily ignored it and just unwatched her?

yelling at someone for their own opinion that they aren't forcing on anyone else on their own post warrants them to be yelled at? It's not like she posted that she loves pedophiles or raping animals, ans some people in the fandom actually post that and DONT get into any trouble for it :/

Then go yell at them. They deserve it too.

I'm not about to search for pedophiles on fa, thatd be creepy for 1.

She didn't deserve to be yelled at, it's not like she's saying "I'M GONNA LYNCH EVERYONE AND SLAVERY NEEDS TO COME BACK FUCK YEAH" she just said she views it as history and as a piece of cloth. It's her post as well....so much for freedom of speech in America.

There are worse things going on than just a flag.

LOL, so much for freedom of speech? And the person yelling wasn't practicing freedom of speech? It goes both ways, you know.

The person was rude dude. And you're being kind of rude as well :/ All I said was it's her post, could be a bit more respectful.

But thanks for yelling at me today! sure made my day :D

I was yelling? Huh, fancy that.

lol it was sarcasm dude xD cause I was jabbing at the original comment.

Fair enough.

mind if i note you? I stalked you fa page and your bio has me worried >_>;

Don't worry about me

:(

Well this kinda hurts...

I don't mean to offend and I am sorry if I have. I respect each person options and views on this flag.

theres two ways to see this flag

Way A: a part of American history that we simply can't put on the back burner, like every American does with things like the Eugenics Movement, and is a large part of how American came to be today. History, not the best history, but history at that

Way B: (like the KKK) extremely racist and full of hate, and still using it to intentionally harm people at that and stuck in the old ways.

Me personally, I view it as history. I'm a history major and studying for a Masters degree in Library Science, we go over the history of everything including flags n what not. To whoever uses this flag as a form of hate, fuck them, theyre assholes and obviously stuck in the old ways and need to change. The people like this I find are usually older folks who are extremely close minded. As for how you see it, I don't mind at all ^^

AND BEFORE ANYONE FLIPS THEIR SHIT ON ME. I AM a minority, if I had lived in the South in times of slavery and civil rights movement, I would have easily been a slave or lynched. I'm not black, I am Puerto Rican. I can't tell you how many times I've been mistaken for Mexican and asked for a green card or told I need to be deported :l.


EDIT: I would also like to add on that comparing this to the Nazi flag is kind of stupid, because there are still neo-nazis and it was a major part of WWII. Confederate flag didn't start WWII and I'm pretty sure no one is trying to enslave anyone anymore. They didn't exterminate 6 Million Jews and not just jews but others as well. So uh, yeah.

earlier you claimed my original post was rude... so I apologize ahead of time because if you thought that was rude then this post could be considered a hate crime... and speaking of hate crimes that brings me to my point.

I could give a shit less what race you are first off because it shouldn't matter and I will flip my shit because this post it straight up stupid for a shit ton of reasons but lets focus on the biggest dumbest part of it shall we and that's the very end, your EDIT

I can't believe this honestly im trying to gather my thoughts because in your own post you show how un-aware of things you are. OK here we go

You don't seem to understand that the same Neo-nazis you brought up fly the confederate flag right along side there Nazi flags? IT IS A SYMBOL OF RACISM, you even say that you're a History Major, I'm no history major this is true but even so I can see how damaging this symbol is, you yourself said history is important and in the same post say Oh but we shouldn't look at the flag for the historical symbol that it is but rather pick and choose reasons why this flag is a good thing. Thats just not how things work

Again I wont argue with your credentials because i have 0 way of telling weather or not your full of shit when you say your a history major but based solely off of this post alone i would call bullshit on that statement.

'I'm pretty sure no one is trying to enslave anyone anymore.'

HOLY SHIT YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, Slavery is still a huge problem all over the world and yes even here in the States though apparently that's a little known fact even to someone making statements like

"There are worse things going on than just a flag."

do you believe racism doesn't exist anymore? and that the USA is free of slavery true its not as public but human trafficking is still a huge problem.

Going back to the Nazi flag I will remake my same point i did in my first post.

Nazis banned vivisection, Nazis established Hunting Seasons to preserve wildlife, Nazis started the anti tobacco movement, THE NAZIS CREATED THE FUCKING WELFARE PROGRAM A program that we have used for a while and that allows poor family's to survive with the aid of the government.

But you yourself don't even see that as you associate it with Neo-Nazis because the bad out weighs the good and its the freaking same with this flag the reason the comparison id drawn so much between to two flags are because they are exactly the same Both were flown in times of progress and in times of hate there is no difference between the two

I want to say, I am well aware of my rudeness as I apologized for it before my I wrote this but this is something i am extremely passionate about as I'm sure many other people are as well on both sides. Clearly you're on the other side of this issue and normally i would respect that and want to know more from your point of view but on this subject i will hear no ones point of view.

The confederate flag is not american, the american flag is. Just as the Nazi flag isn't German, The German flag is.

Flying this Racist symbol and saying "I'm just proud to be a Southerner" is the exact same as flying the Nazi flag and saying "im just proud to be a German"

Wow. Rude much.

A simple "i disagree" would have sufficed.

I honestly gice 0 shits about a flag. Its just a part of american history that shouldnt be forgotten. Theres a lot worse stuff out there. Like the Eugenics movement

And also tl;dr

I thought of doing that in my fursuit XD

I'm split over this. I have no reason to think you're a bigot and have every reason to think the opposite but this flag represents very terrible beliefs and practices.

I'm having a pure internal conflict right now.

you have my support. and i will be joining you. i will fly this flag on my truck. i first neet to buy one.

Flag is about racism and hate, plain and simple.