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(Sorry for the length! I didn't realize I had so much to say!)
Ah, so here were are surrounded by these creatures known as "angel dragons". The chirping furballs that have been spreading like a virus through the furry fandom. You probably know it's all because the Telephone suit was too gosh-darn cute for its own good and everyone had to have one just like it soon as it was declared an open, but regulated, species.
Obviously, the characters have been quite successful and appealing... but unfortunately quite misunderstood and misrepresented. Interesting enough, the phrase "angel dragon" is so ambiguous that I now consider the term to be a description synonymous to "cute/chibi dragon", as that's the most common understanding of it these days anyways. But calling something an "angel dragon" shouldn't be an insult! I'm amazed to see so many people take it as one.
So if you're not in the loop, recently two "types" of dragons and corresponding sub-communities have popped up and it's been cause for a lot of confusion and issues between them. And maybe these kinds of dragons aren't really your thing or you've heard "oh it's just too full of drama, I don't want to get involved". Well maybe I couldn't blame you, but I'd like to at least help shed some light on the situation for those interested in finding out why.
Telephone is considered a "Dutch Angel Dragon". If you want to be part of Telephone's family then you have to have your character make sense with the species and the lore that Telephone belongs to.
It's as simple as that. Really. People shouldn't be making this complicated.
Every species, real or fictional, open or closed, is the same way- they need to share common traits to be classified as the same species. That's how species work. Outlined in the image here are 5 reasonable traits that all DutchADs share, in a format that I hope is straightforward and easy to understand. I want to help show you that being a Dutch Angel Dragon doesn't inherently mean "your creative freedom is being taken away", or that "there are too many strict rules". I'd even argue it actually challenges you to be more creative in order to come up with an original design that will also mesh with an established story.
But the way I see it, if you absolutely cannot cope with the fact that you are not permitted to have a muzzle ring marking because it goes against the species lore, or that you just NEED to have genitals so porn can be made of your dragons, or there's just too many popufur wannabes for you to be appreciated then yeah the Dutch Angel Dragon family is not for you. (Really, I'm not making these examples up either. This is pretty common.)
No one is forcing you to be a Dutch Angel Dragon.
Go be a normal dragon and enjoy the character however you want. But I don't understand why so much animosity follows. Certainly jealousy can be a powerful force, and is a common symptom for those who are excluded in some way from a group they wish they could be a part of if only a few circumstances were different. This could be the case with some individuals of this angel dragon community too. But I find it unjustified to blame the admins or our community as a whole for a bunch of trivial things. A common problem arose from the fact that people assumed anyone who called themselves an "angel dragon" meant that they were also part of the DutchAD community- in these cases it's because their character looks exactly like our dragon's species and worse yet, they just look like they're breaking the design guidelines. So yeah, one can expect people to probably ask about it in some form if they haven't clearly communicated to others that they don't want any association with our community. Yet THEY have the power to change how their characters are represented and they're blaming us for "attacking" them for it.
Most cases of people "attacking" other people is because the lack of communication. White knights are present in every community because they are passionate and want to correct or help others, even if it's done incorrectly. Half the problem may be on the other party too though- maybe it wasn't clearly understood that it wasn't supposed to be a DutchAD or it wasn't clearly shown to be visually different than a DutchAD. You would think if this bothered them so much, they would change their presentation! No one has the power to control what other people do, but I can personally try to educate and inform. I have put great effort in getting members of our community to understand a difference and to not automatically assume every "angel dragon" is a Dutch Angel Dragon. I have seen fewer and fewer problems in this area since I have started making graphics like this one and I hope progress continues. We dislike white knights as much as anyone. So let's try to help each other on this. Please.
---
And since many have so chosen to not participate in the community and take their characters elsewhere, all I'm asking is to cease trying to drag our community through the mud to do it. That is unnecessary.
We are just here because we like Telephone, to have fun and contribute to the development of a community centered around a single species. I'm sorry if you have problems with specific individuals in the community, but we just all want to enjoy our own characters in our own way, right? Yes it's something that's popular but that's just a temporary state, so just because it's popular right now doesn't mean it's corrupted or worth tearing down or gives you permission and validation to disrespect it as a whole either. It's popular for a reason and you alone chose to not be a part of it. That was your decision for however valid you feel that reason may be. I hope you are happy with whatever choice you chose to make. But if our community is not your thing, I get it! I respect that. Done. I have friends in both communities and I know it can work out fine between us. Could we start to move past this now? I look forward to seeing more effort put into that.
And the folks in the angel dragon community aren't all rebels or have bad intentions and causing problems by any means. Many got thrown into the mix on accident, or many called themselves angel dragons way before Telephone was a thing. Ino did indeed start out simply calling Telephone an "angel dragon" and realized the issue early on and corrected this soon as she could settle on a proper species name... but the damage has been done. The term had stuck so strongly to the association with the specific species that we have been trying to correct this ever since. Many many people STILL don't realize there is a difference or there are specific guidelines to "Telephones species". I want to help make that better understood. I don't want there to be two "sides" to chose from or "us vs them". I want everyone to enjoy creating and involving themselves with their own characters how they see fit, but done so in a way that is respectful to everyone and doesn't put another group down in the process.
Maybe in a few years when everyone gets tired of angel dragons and the fandom moves on to the next biggest thing, we'll look back and laugh at this shenanigans. I honestly quite look forward to the day angel dragons lose the spotlight; I think it'll be much healthier for everyone.
Until then, be excellent to each other...
and, well, you know the rest ;)
I am admin "Sonar" of the Official Dutch Angel Dragon community and the webmaster of www.DutchAngelDragons.com. I am responsible for all content on the site and how the information about the species is presented there. Awhile back I made this infographic for the Facebook community page and thought I would share it here as additional reference for those curious to learn about the species.
Disclaimer: I recognize that stand at a biased position. I have made it clear that I am in favor of the DutchAD community and actively support and enjoy partaking in it. I am not against the existence of other kinds of angel dragons in general, but I certainly have personal issue with specific individuals and poor choices or actions just like anyone else would on both sides. Other members of the community, even other admins and Ino herself may have a different opinion than my own. In my responses, I will try to make it clear when I am representing the community as a whole vs when I am representing my personal opinion. I do not want the two getting confused for each other. (Hint, I'll use the word "I" to talk about my own opinion.)
I am happy to answer genuine questions. I am also just as happy to remove comments that display unacceptable behavior if needed, but I really hope I won't need to. I anticipate this post may cause disputes or frustrations for people as the two communities have historically not gotten along with one another... but I simply ask that we all be civil and respectful in our replies. Use proper debate format, logic, and avoid fallacies, etc.
And yes, I am open to criticism and feedback! :)
Dutch Angel Dragons, Telephone ©
ino89777
Infogrpahic ©
CanineHybrid
I implore you to also read the accompanying text found on our website titled "What Is An Angel Dragon?" [link]
For example, did you know:
Dutch Angel Dragons are supernatural beings similar to poltergeists or ghosts?
Did you know they are genderless and sexless?
Do you know why they have the word "Dutch" in their name?
Ah, so here were are surrounded by these creatures known as "angel dragons". The chirping furballs that have been spreading like a virus through the furry fandom. You probably know it's all because the Telephone suit was too gosh-darn cute for its own good and everyone had to have one just like it soon as it was declared an open, but regulated, species.
Obviously, the characters have been quite successful and appealing... but unfortunately quite misunderstood and misrepresented. Interesting enough, the phrase "angel dragon" is so ambiguous that I now consider the term to be a description synonymous to "cute/chibi dragon", as that's the most common understanding of it these days anyways. But calling something an "angel dragon" shouldn't be an insult! I'm amazed to see so many people take it as one.
So if you're not in the loop, recently two "types" of dragons and corresponding sub-communities have popped up and it's been cause for a lot of confusion and issues between them. And maybe these kinds of dragons aren't really your thing or you've heard "oh it's just too full of drama, I don't want to get involved". Well maybe I couldn't blame you, but I'd like to at least help shed some light on the situation for those interested in finding out why.
Telephone is considered a "Dutch Angel Dragon". If you want to be part of Telephone's family then you have to have your character make sense with the species and the lore that Telephone belongs to.
It's as simple as that. Really. People shouldn't be making this complicated.
Every species, real or fictional, open or closed, is the same way- they need to share common traits to be classified as the same species. That's how species work. Outlined in the image here are 5 reasonable traits that all DutchADs share, in a format that I hope is straightforward and easy to understand. I want to help show you that being a Dutch Angel Dragon doesn't inherently mean "your creative freedom is being taken away", or that "there are too many strict rules". I'd even argue it actually challenges you to be more creative in order to come up with an original design that will also mesh with an established story.
But the way I see it, if you absolutely cannot cope with the fact that you are not permitted to have a muzzle ring marking because it goes against the species lore, or that you just NEED to have genitals so porn can be made of your dragons, or there's just too many popufur wannabes for you to be appreciated then yeah the Dutch Angel Dragon family is not for you. (Really, I'm not making these examples up either. This is pretty common.)
No one is forcing you to be a Dutch Angel Dragon.
Go be a normal dragon and enjoy the character however you want. But I don't understand why so much animosity follows. Certainly jealousy can be a powerful force, and is a common symptom for those who are excluded in some way from a group they wish they could be a part of if only a few circumstances were different. This could be the case with some individuals of this angel dragon community too. But I find it unjustified to blame the admins or our community as a whole for a bunch of trivial things. A common problem arose from the fact that people assumed anyone who called themselves an "angel dragon" meant that they were also part of the DutchAD community- in these cases it's because their character looks exactly like our dragon's species and worse yet, they just look like they're breaking the design guidelines. So yeah, one can expect people to probably ask about it in some form if they haven't clearly communicated to others that they don't want any association with our community. Yet THEY have the power to change how their characters are represented and they're blaming us for "attacking" them for it.
Most cases of people "attacking" other people is because the lack of communication. White knights are present in every community because they are passionate and want to correct or help others, even if it's done incorrectly. Half the problem may be on the other party too though- maybe it wasn't clearly understood that it wasn't supposed to be a DutchAD or it wasn't clearly shown to be visually different than a DutchAD. You would think if this bothered them so much, they would change their presentation! No one has the power to control what other people do, but I can personally try to educate and inform. I have put great effort in getting members of our community to understand a difference and to not automatically assume every "angel dragon" is a Dutch Angel Dragon. I have seen fewer and fewer problems in this area since I have started making graphics like this one and I hope progress continues. We dislike white knights as much as anyone. So let's try to help each other on this. Please.
---
And since many have so chosen to not participate in the community and take their characters elsewhere, all I'm asking is to cease trying to drag our community through the mud to do it. That is unnecessary.
We are just here because we like Telephone, to have fun and contribute to the development of a community centered around a single species. I'm sorry if you have problems with specific individuals in the community, but we just all want to enjoy our own characters in our own way, right? Yes it's something that's popular but that's just a temporary state, so just because it's popular right now doesn't mean it's corrupted or worth tearing down or gives you permission and validation to disrespect it as a whole either. It's popular for a reason and you alone chose to not be a part of it. That was your decision for however valid you feel that reason may be. I hope you are happy with whatever choice you chose to make. But if our community is not your thing, I get it! I respect that. Done. I have friends in both communities and I know it can work out fine between us. Could we start to move past this now? I look forward to seeing more effort put into that.
And the folks in the angel dragon community aren't all rebels or have bad intentions and causing problems by any means. Many got thrown into the mix on accident, or many called themselves angel dragons way before Telephone was a thing. Ino did indeed start out simply calling Telephone an "angel dragon" and realized the issue early on and corrected this soon as she could settle on a proper species name... but the damage has been done. The term had stuck so strongly to the association with the specific species that we have been trying to correct this ever since. Many many people STILL don't realize there is a difference or there are specific guidelines to "Telephones species". I want to help make that better understood. I don't want there to be two "sides" to chose from or "us vs them". I want everyone to enjoy creating and involving themselves with their own characters how they see fit, but done so in a way that is respectful to everyone and doesn't put another group down in the process.
Maybe in a few years when everyone gets tired of angel dragons and the fandom moves on to the next biggest thing, we'll look back and laugh at this shenanigans. I honestly quite look forward to the day angel dragons lose the spotlight; I think it'll be much healthier for everyone.
Until then, be excellent to each other...
and, well, you know the rest ;)
I am admin "Sonar" of the Official Dutch Angel Dragon community and the webmaster of www.DutchAngelDragons.com. I am responsible for all content on the site and how the information about the species is presented there. Awhile back I made this infographic for the Facebook community page and thought I would share it here as additional reference for those curious to learn about the species.
Disclaimer: I recognize that stand at a biased position. I have made it clear that I am in favor of the DutchAD community and actively support and enjoy partaking in it. I am not against the existence of other kinds of angel dragons in general, but I certainly have personal issue with specific individuals and poor choices or actions just like anyone else would on both sides. Other members of the community, even other admins and Ino herself may have a different opinion than my own. In my responses, I will try to make it clear when I am representing the community as a whole vs when I am representing my personal opinion. I do not want the two getting confused for each other. (Hint, I'll use the word "I" to talk about my own opinion.)
I am happy to answer genuine questions. I am also just as happy to remove comments that display unacceptable behavior if needed, but I really hope I won't need to. I anticipate this post may cause disputes or frustrations for people as the two communities have historically not gotten along with one another... but I simply ask that we all be civil and respectful in our replies. Use proper debate format, logic, and avoid fallacies, etc.
And yes, I am open to criticism and feedback! :)
Dutch Angel Dragons, Telephone ©
ino89777Infogrpahic ©
CanineHybridI implore you to also read the accompanying text found on our website titled "What Is An Angel Dragon?" [link]
For example, did you know:
Dutch Angel Dragons are supernatural beings similar to poltergeists or ghosts?
Did you know they are genderless and sexless?
Do you know why they have the word "Dutch" in their name?
Category Current Events / General Furry Art
Species Dragon (Other)
Size 1280 x 900px
File Size 873.8 kB
Yes! Exactly! In my example, these are the two major things different between the them. I wanted to show that many angel dragons tend to look very similar to Dutch Angel Dragons, (honestly in a lot of cases the character started out Dutch and then the individual left the community... but still wanted to keep the character) and sometimes they are SO CLOSE that it's either not obvious or impossible to tell because they are chibis or represented in many different ways.
The point is that some people care an awful lot if they belong to or are associated with one group or the other. As trivial as that can seem. It's not so much about the physical differences as it is the concept behind a separation in the community. I simply want to bring awareness to that issue more than anything.
The point is that some people care an awful lot if they belong to or are associated with one group or the other. As trivial as that can seem. It's not so much about the physical differences as it is the concept behind a separation in the community. I simply want to bring awareness to that issue more than anything.
Sadly, my personal character who is a malamute dragon hybrid, has been called an angel dragon, by those rabid white knights that we dislike so very much quite a few times even though her ref clearly says malagon or malamute dragon hybrid. She is not an angel dragon, in any way shape or form. She is simply fluffy due to being part malamute, and the fact I like fluffy things, with feathered wings. Being fluffy/feathered wings does NOT mean I am part of said community. I personally do NOT want to be associated with it nore called an angel dragon as that is not what I consider myself/character to be. That is my main problem with the dutch angel dragon community. If its clearly stated they are not an angel dragon, nore do they want to be a part of the community, respect that, and don't harass them like I have had done to me.
I wish more people in said community knew this and would lay off a little bit. Maybe as an admin, you could shed some light on that? Of course maybe in a less frustrated tone then what I stated above but, it would be nice to not always be assumed that I am just some "angle dragon wanna be"
I wish more people in said community knew this and would lay off a little bit. Maybe as an admin, you could shed some light on that? Of course maybe in a less frustrated tone then what I stated above but, it would be nice to not always be assumed that I am just some "angle dragon wanna be"
Absolutely, I hear you there! Partly my statement mentioning how being called an angel dragon is seen as an insult goes back to this situation. But in your case you are also an outsider of both communities. I'm sure with enough digging one could determine if the people comparing you to an angel dragon is from one community or the other, but that's also what leads me to my other statement: "angel dragon" these days have become synonymous with something close to a "cute/chibi/fluffy/winged" dragon.
BAM! Automatically everything's an angel dragon.
Even if it doesn't belong to that group of characters (and even if it doesn't even look like a Telephone) people are going to find similarities. People do this all the time in everything. That's how people are wired to see things. For example, it is common to have people comment "Oh your art looks like this other person's style." That can come off rude, even if that was not their intent. So this is also just as likely the case and it's not always someone in the angel dragon community itself.
Unfortunately you see it as a negative association. Also can't blame you there.
I try to do little checkups on the community outside of the Facebook page and see how we're doing. I will certainly continue to take action and remind people in the DutchAD community that this is not cool. (Especially when you clearly say it's not an angel dragon, people just don't read anymore). Thanks for sharing!
BAM! Automatically everything's an angel dragon.
Even if it doesn't belong to that group of characters (and even if it doesn't even look like a Telephone) people are going to find similarities. People do this all the time in everything. That's how people are wired to see things. For example, it is common to have people comment "Oh your art looks like this other person's style." That can come off rude, even if that was not their intent. So this is also just as likely the case and it's not always someone in the angel dragon community itself.
Unfortunately you see it as a negative association. Also can't blame you there.
I try to do little checkups on the community outside of the Facebook page and see how we're doing. I will certainly continue to take action and remind people in the DutchAD community that this is not cool. (Especially when you clearly say it's not an angel dragon, people just don't read anymore). Thanks for sharing!
haha no worries! I figured :) Its good though so now I know I can watch that account too, I always enjoyed watching you make your suits and the finished products!
Yeah I think once or twice it was just someone who liked angel dragons that came after me, and they seemed to get it when I explained and were apologetic in the end... but there were also a few that WERE in the group, that got really nasty, to the point I just blocked them half way through me trying to explain to them that I was not making my character out of spite or hatred or anger and bla bla bla but instead because I love malamutes, and dragons, so I just could not pick between the two! Of course she is fluffy, she is part snow dog, or course she has feathered wings, I dont think thin uncovered skin could stand up well to arctic temperatures (plus I prefer them and it is easier to draw those over webbed wings) She also has a more dragon like snout, long dragon like front paws and canine like back paws. But people will be people. Sadly as that is.
But thank you for shedding some light on the subject and willing to maybe bring it up within the community as a whole and not just one person telling the people who come to her about her one character. I know there has been some drama with it in the past with the group which is why I avoid it like the plague (drama just gets me all riled up and that I dont need/like have happening) but I hope that it slowly turns around and the members can find piece with the rest of the furs and visa versa so we can put it beside us and all remember, we are all furries in the end, we are outcasts in society's eyes enough, we dont need to be fighting/hurtful within our own ranks as well! :)
Yeah I think once or twice it was just someone who liked angel dragons that came after me, and they seemed to get it when I explained and were apologetic in the end... but there were also a few that WERE in the group, that got really nasty, to the point I just blocked them half way through me trying to explain to them that I was not making my character out of spite or hatred or anger and bla bla bla but instead because I love malamutes, and dragons, so I just could not pick between the two! Of course she is fluffy, she is part snow dog, or course she has feathered wings, I dont think thin uncovered skin could stand up well to arctic temperatures (plus I prefer them and it is easier to draw those over webbed wings) She also has a more dragon like snout, long dragon like front paws and canine like back paws. But people will be people. Sadly as that is.
But thank you for shedding some light on the subject and willing to maybe bring it up within the community as a whole and not just one person telling the people who come to her about her one character. I know there has been some drama with it in the past with the group which is why I avoid it like the plague (drama just gets me all riled up and that I dont need/like have happening) but I hope that it slowly turns around and the members can find piece with the rest of the furs and visa versa so we can put it beside us and all remember, we are all furries in the end, we are outcasts in society's eyes enough, we dont need to be fighting/hurtful within our own ranks as well! :)
This was a good read, and very informative. Thank you for posting it.
I have and "angel dragon" oc named Nitrogen, I intend to make a suit out of some day. Got into this part of the fandom at the start of the drama that was going down of the 2 sub-species, at the time I didn't know it was going on. Moving and setting up my home was a great distraction.
I kept hearing more about the drama i had no clue about and read some of the stuff going on. My exact thoughts were, "Wtf are people freaking out about?...."
At that point, I decided right there, not to get involved with the drama, and not pay attention to it, as I normally do, work and other things tend to distract me too well to worry about it. ;b
So I kept Nitrogen as an "angel dragon" as i was happy with how she turned out and didn't have the heart to change it.
Thanks again for posting this, very helpful.
I have and "angel dragon" oc named Nitrogen, I intend to make a suit out of some day. Got into this part of the fandom at the start of the drama that was going down of the 2 sub-species, at the time I didn't know it was going on. Moving and setting up my home was a great distraction.
I kept hearing more about the drama i had no clue about and read some of the stuff going on. My exact thoughts were, "Wtf are people freaking out about?...."
At that point, I decided right there, not to get involved with the drama, and not pay attention to it, as I normally do, work and other things tend to distract me too well to worry about it. ;b
So I kept Nitrogen as an "angel dragon" as i was happy with how she turned out and didn't have the heart to change it.
Thanks again for posting this, very helpful.
The horse teeth spacing thing is honestly not strongly enforced, no worries! Most people aren't even aware of it because it's not often visibly shown and you won't get in trouble if you don't have it on your ref or anything. You can see this represented in the skeleton on the anatomy page, but it's a super minor detail. All there is really is a gap between the front teeth and the side/back teeth. Otherwise they can be any size and shape you want!
i never see a made up species like sergals have to deal with this type of issue...
I just hate that i cant make a type of character that might resemble a angle dragon in ANY-WAY. With out getting some harassment and being made to have to give it oni a for a stamp of approval or not. Just so i can get some peace * true story* so i just took it down.
Its calmed down by the looks of it but i really dont want to do it again, I just dont get why its that way.
I just hate that i cant make a type of character that might resemble a angle dragon in ANY-WAY. With out getting some harassment and being made to have to give it oni a for a stamp of approval or not. Just so i can get some peace * true story* so i just took it down.
Its calmed down by the looks of it but i really dont want to do it again, I just dont get why its that way.
My beef is, the admins of the group suck on fb. They remind me of a corrupt government. Nothing is wrong, have no options and there will be no drama.
And I'm not happy with ino. She wants to cry about people taking her suits and such and making them just ad not Dutch ad, but she won't face the problems.
And I'm not happy with ino. She wants to cry about people taking her suits and such and making them just ad not Dutch ad, but she won't face the problems.
If you are interested in sharing, I would like to know a little more about your viewpoint. You do not have to respond if you do not want to but I would love some feedback so we can work towards further improvement in the community. I joined the admin team later in the game and almost exclusively handle the website and species info more than individual posts and reports.
Would you care to explain why you feel this way about the admin team on the Facebook page? I would like to see a little support for your arguments or justification for your outlook. What is your relationship to it- are you part of the community page yourself? Have you ever talked with an admin about an issue? Or perhaps did you observe a situation you thought wasn't handled well? What course of action do you think should have been taken instead and why? Etc. Share whatever you are comfortable with and would be appropriate to say publicly (keep in mind call-outs are against Fur Affinity's TOS, keep personal info and names private please) or alternatively feel free to note me.
And what problems in your opinion do you feel that Ino's is avoiding? I would also be happy to explain why Ino is upset with the individuals who have changed their characters from DutchADs to regular "angel dragons" if you are interested in learning about the situation from her perspective. Not saying it will change your outlook on her or anything, but if you seek understanding there I'd be glad to help.
Would you care to explain why you feel this way about the admin team on the Facebook page? I would like to see a little support for your arguments or justification for your outlook. What is your relationship to it- are you part of the community page yourself? Have you ever talked with an admin about an issue? Or perhaps did you observe a situation you thought wasn't handled well? What course of action do you think should have been taken instead and why? Etc. Share whatever you are comfortable with and would be appropriate to say publicly (keep in mind call-outs are against Fur Affinity's TOS, keep personal info and names private please) or alternatively feel free to note me.
And what problems in your opinion do you feel that Ino's is avoiding? I would also be happy to explain why Ino is upset with the individuals who have changed their characters from DutchADs to regular "angel dragons" if you are interested in learning about the situation from her perspective. Not saying it will change your outlook on her or anything, but if you seek understanding there I'd be glad to help.
I could probably go on forever, so I'll try to keep it as short as I can. I like to be originated so I'll break it in parts.
The Facebook group - I feel way to much carp gets approved that shouldn't be. Pictures of food that "their dragon likes", random art they don't own don't link and just found, etc. I think the group needs to stay about dragons. Only art or such of your dragon, not just random imagines of what they like or whatever.
Certain admins I've talked to this about pretty much said "shut up its fine, you wanna keep talking I'll have you thrown out".they have always been this way. I have spoken to many people who have said they were band for stating an option the admins didn't like.
The species - very recently a dragon design was approved in the group that made me furious. It looked exactly like a wicker beast and nothing like a Dutch Angel dragon. This is completely unfair to the rest of the fandom. When dragons like this get approved and people see them, it confuses them even more on what's a Dutch AD and what's not.
I will never forget how one member linked my reference sheet of my otter monster to the group, and had people and admins tell me to remove the ring muzzle. Even though I clearly stated in the description what species it was. It was a long time until I stopped getting notes from people saying they were mad I had the ring.
I know exactly why ino is upset, I already understand that she feels they are taking her species ideas and making them their own. But has she stopped to hear from these people why they left? Lately I have been more a fan of pearl then ino. The species appearance needs to be spelled out in black and white. "These ears only. No claw paws, etc".
I know someone who for the past two years has been harassed about her dragon species being a Dutch AD, even though they have it posted in bold just about everywhere they can.
I have been a huge supporter of Dutch AD for years. But I can't take the way things are going anymore.
The admins are rude to people out of the group, dragon designs get away with to much, and I can %100 garenty that if it was a rule that you can't draw chibi styled Dutch AD anymore, well over half would leave the group.
The Facebook group - I feel way to much carp gets approved that shouldn't be. Pictures of food that "their dragon likes", random art they don't own don't link and just found, etc. I think the group needs to stay about dragons. Only art or such of your dragon, not just random imagines of what they like or whatever.
Certain admins I've talked to this about pretty much said "shut up its fine, you wanna keep talking I'll have you thrown out".they have always been this way. I have spoken to many people who have said they were band for stating an option the admins didn't like.
The species - very recently a dragon design was approved in the group that made me furious. It looked exactly like a wicker beast and nothing like a Dutch Angel dragon. This is completely unfair to the rest of the fandom. When dragons like this get approved and people see them, it confuses them even more on what's a Dutch AD and what's not.
I will never forget how one member linked my reference sheet of my otter monster to the group, and had people and admins tell me to remove the ring muzzle. Even though I clearly stated in the description what species it was. It was a long time until I stopped getting notes from people saying they were mad I had the ring.
I know exactly why ino is upset, I already understand that she feels they are taking her species ideas and making them their own. But has she stopped to hear from these people why they left? Lately I have been more a fan of pearl then ino. The species appearance needs to be spelled out in black and white. "These ears only. No claw paws, etc".
I know someone who for the past two years has been harassed about her dragon species being a Dutch AD, even though they have it posted in bold just about everywhere they can.
I have been a huge supporter of Dutch AD for years. But I can't take the way things are going anymore.
The admins are rude to people out of the group, dragon designs get away with to much, and I can %100 garenty that if it was a rule that you can't draw chibi styled Dutch AD anymore, well over half would leave the group.
yes... some ppl attack users who uses "angel dragons" for their non dutch characters and want them to say "dragon with angelic features" instead One confessed they never heard of the term "angel dragons" before Ino's species. smh. Then the D.A.D. community should know that they should use "dutch" in their title more often.
And trust me, we're doing all we can to pound Dutch into our member's vocabulary! It's true, one idea that was presented to those who had angel dragon characters to help avoid the association with the DutchAD community was to use the term "angelic dragon" instead; I stated this as an option on the website in the FAQ to help non-Dutch characters avoid harassment while still essentially calling it the same thing. Just to help the separation a bit more. But it appears that many people didn't take kindly to the suggestion (especially if it's being shoved down your throat with a "change this or else!" kind of attitude) :/
But I am not surprised someone claimed they had never heard of an angel dragon before Telephone- I'd say that a good 80% of "normal angel dragons" didn't exist before Telephone (of course 100% of DutchADs didn't exist) and nearly all of these new angel dragons were meant to look like Telephone's species on purpose. And there's no denying this correlation, it is not an accident that angel dragons popped up suddenly all at once and we're confused for Telephone. This is why the DutchAD community views normal angel dragons so poorly: They simply see a bunch of people butthurt about some of the limitations Ino placed on her species (or other kinds of problems with Ino personally or the members) but want to have a cute popular dragon anyways... so they ignore the rules consciously and do whatever they please. That is sending a message to the Dutchies that they are disrespectful, selfish theives- hijacking a popular idea to repurpose it how they see fit, make profit, satisfy their own needs, or harass the community. There are numerous and well documented accounts of this happening. There is truth there.
And thus, this is genuinely how most of the DutchADs feel about the situation. They see themselves as perfect little angles who love and support the species, Telephone, and Ino and feel they are being the better man by respecting the guidelines. Then when people are purposely breaking these rules, it has caused many members to flip their shit because they see an injustice that must be dealt with. After all they are following the rules and thinks everyone else should be too! That's not fair! What's sad but kinda funny is that this kind of thinking and behavior on the DutchADs part had actually lead to the creation of probably half the "normal angel dragons" out there! It's not true that all angel dragons disrespect the Dutchies and made their characters out of spite, it just overwhelmingly feels that way and everyone had a reason for choosing to do so.
But trust me when I say the DutchADs aren't just having problems with outsiders, there is finger-pointing and theft and disrespect internally too. And that's where half of the "normal angel dragons come from"- they fall out of the good favor of the majority and leave the community. Many of these people are indeed art theives or trolls, but most have personal problems with one or a couple people in the group and they abandon the community to go form or join a different one. It's a vicious cycle and it's upsetting to watch it happen. But it's a small model for how any community works and operates on a social level. We're only human after all.
So it's been a rollercoaster. But, I rather enjoy rollercoasters :)
But I am not surprised someone claimed they had never heard of an angel dragon before Telephone- I'd say that a good 80% of "normal angel dragons" didn't exist before Telephone (of course 100% of DutchADs didn't exist) and nearly all of these new angel dragons were meant to look like Telephone's species on purpose. And there's no denying this correlation, it is not an accident that angel dragons popped up suddenly all at once and we're confused for Telephone. This is why the DutchAD community views normal angel dragons so poorly: They simply see a bunch of people butthurt about some of the limitations Ino placed on her species (or other kinds of problems with Ino personally or the members) but want to have a cute popular dragon anyways... so they ignore the rules consciously and do whatever they please. That is sending a message to the Dutchies that they are disrespectful, selfish theives- hijacking a popular idea to repurpose it how they see fit, make profit, satisfy their own needs, or harass the community. There are numerous and well documented accounts of this happening. There is truth there.
And thus, this is genuinely how most of the DutchADs feel about the situation. They see themselves as perfect little angles who love and support the species, Telephone, and Ino and feel they are being the better man by respecting the guidelines. Then when people are purposely breaking these rules, it has caused many members to flip their shit because they see an injustice that must be dealt with. After all they are following the rules and thinks everyone else should be too! That's not fair! What's sad but kinda funny is that this kind of thinking and behavior on the DutchADs part had actually lead to the creation of probably half the "normal angel dragons" out there! It's not true that all angel dragons disrespect the Dutchies and made their characters out of spite, it just overwhelmingly feels that way and everyone had a reason for choosing to do so.
But trust me when I say the DutchADs aren't just having problems with outsiders, there is finger-pointing and theft and disrespect internally too. And that's where half of the "normal angel dragons come from"- they fall out of the good favor of the majority and leave the community. Many of these people are indeed art theives or trolls, but most have personal problems with one or a couple people in the group and they abandon the community to go form or join a different one. It's a vicious cycle and it's upsetting to watch it happen. But it's a small model for how any community works and operates on a social level. We're only human after all.
So it's been a rollercoaster. But, I rather enjoy rollercoasters :)
They have a bottomless stomach that absorbs anything they eat, they do not need to excrete or urinate. They can eat, they just do not need to do any of the gross stuff that comes after that. c:
http://www.dutchangeldragons.com/#!.....--traits/c1fpu
http://www.dutchangeldragons.com/#!.....--traits/c1fpu
Actually DutchADs do not have to have horns! Take another look- it reads that many (not all) of them do include horns (and other things like feathers, hooves, tails, etf) but all these elements are NOT required. It's common to see but absolutely not essential and you are totally able to have hornless dragons!
We definitely do anything we can to avoid people using the muzzle ring because it cannot work with the species's lore. Period. If you've seen one that claims to be of the Dutch species and has a full-on ring like any of the three examples, it is not an approved design and cannot be officially recognized by the DutchAD community until it is changed. You can consider any angel dragon with a ring automatically non-Dutch... UNLESS it has been specifically stated that this was a previous form of what the dragon looked like before "the fall" when every DutchAD had a ring. For example, there is a fairly new trend of people drawing their dragons with their rings disappearing off of them during the part of the story when their bonds were broken and they were banished to the Aether realm. We are also still working on clearing up some of the backstory and re-writing some of the details to help explain the prior events of the war and solidify the reasons why this bond was broken in the first place.
But we're not heartless on this one, there's a lot you can do to have a similar marking but not be at odds with the species guidelines and lore: long as there is an obvious break somewhere in the ring it's okay- this easily symbolizes "the"fall" and the idea that the bonds were broken. Keep in mind the description of the ring in the infographic did say "continuous band". Also we're more concerned with the band being highly visible which is why it is specified to be "across the top" of the muzzle when you can actually have a lower jaw band and that's totally okay (this was the only change ever to the ring rule to allow a little more flexibility in the design). And we are only concerned with bands that are on the muzzle itself, if it doesn't touch the edges of the mouth or is more on the face, then that's fine too!
There is an additional graphic that shows a whole bunch of examples for what kind of "rings" are approved on the website here: (scroll down to the markings section) http://www.dutchangeldragons.com/#!.....r-design/c1d0v I just couldn't fit all of these examples in my picture, this was meant to be quick and dirty about some of the most important species details and anything in-depth can be read about on the website. Hopefully that helps clear it up some more!
We definitely do anything we can to avoid people using the muzzle ring because it cannot work with the species's lore. Period. If you've seen one that claims to be of the Dutch species and has a full-on ring like any of the three examples, it is not an approved design and cannot be officially recognized by the DutchAD community until it is changed. You can consider any angel dragon with a ring automatically non-Dutch... UNLESS it has been specifically stated that this was a previous form of what the dragon looked like before "the fall" when every DutchAD had a ring. For example, there is a fairly new trend of people drawing their dragons with their rings disappearing off of them during the part of the story when their bonds were broken and they were banished to the Aether realm. We are also still working on clearing up some of the backstory and re-writing some of the details to help explain the prior events of the war and solidify the reasons why this bond was broken in the first place.
But we're not heartless on this one, there's a lot you can do to have a similar marking but not be at odds with the species guidelines and lore: long as there is an obvious break somewhere in the ring it's okay- this easily symbolizes "the"fall" and the idea that the bonds were broken. Keep in mind the description of the ring in the infographic did say "continuous band". Also we're more concerned with the band being highly visible which is why it is specified to be "across the top" of the muzzle when you can actually have a lower jaw band and that's totally okay (this was the only change ever to the ring rule to allow a little more flexibility in the design). And we are only concerned with bands that are on the muzzle itself, if it doesn't touch the edges of the mouth or is more on the face, then that's fine too!
There is an additional graphic that shows a whole bunch of examples for what kind of "rings" are approved on the website here: (scroll down to the markings section) http://www.dutchangeldragons.com/#!.....r-design/c1d0v I just couldn't fit all of these examples in my picture, this was meant to be quick and dirty about some of the most important species details and anything in-depth can be read about on the website. Hopefully that helps clear it up some more!
This is something I've wondered. How would the world react when the Dutch Angel Dragons start falling from the sky (Assuming they don't die from falling and it occurs in modern times.) I know the lore is suppose to be a fairytale. I just like to imagine what would realistically happen in a scenario like this.
Would it be ok if I made a dutch angel dragon 'clone'? I wanted to make a DAD character but with a specific backstory to himself, and I was thinking of how to do it, and then i thought, 'of course! Cloning!' because humans never know when to stop something because it goes against the moral lasw of nature... I'd still follow the rules to make one, I'd just change his backstory slightly. Plz let me know if this is ok or if i should change the species so as not to break the rules.
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