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This is a selection of sketches depicting semi-auto vest/ pocket pistols. This is just a sample of the dozens of different manufactured pistols made during the first half of the 20th century in Europe and the USA. They grew to a dominant role by filling the niche previously ruled by small caliber derringers, revolvers and other small caliber multi-barrel pocket pistols. in fact they represent the continuing evolution of the tiny flintlock and percussion derringers and muff pistols of the 18th and 19th century. Their quality ranged from so-so to superbly crafted little jewels of the gunsmith's art, but they are as a general rule not trashy little "Saturday Night Specials" that media will often portray them as.
For many men and women they were just a part of one's daily wardrobe along with your pocket watch, keys, handkerchief, wallet, etc. you'd drop one of these small pistols in your pocket and went on your way. They got their name vest pistol since they were slim enough to carry in front pocket of man's a vest without spoiling the lines of his garment. From studies I've done they generally have the following features.
1. Single-action, striker-fired, hammerless design, although there were a few that had external hammers to them. Almost none are double-action in nature.
2. Very small centerfire caliber. Almost all of them chambered the 6.35mm cartridge which is also known as the 25ACP. A few were made in 7.65mm Browning, 32ACP, and a handful were developed to fire the tiny 4.25mm Lilliput round.
3. Ultra-slim design and size optimized for ease of carry. These are very slim, flat weapons designed to be carried without giving their presence away by leaving visible bulge in ones vest pocket. Many of these are three-quarters of an inch or less in thickness. This is one of the things that limited the options in caliber. These were not your first choice for a gunfight but instead provided their owner with a discrete, modest level protection that was always with them.
The glory days of these pistols was from the beginning of the 20th century up to the start of the Second World War. After the war a variety of societal and legal pressures in Europe and the USA. redefined, for good or bad, what was considered acceptable levels of force and protection that private citizens could easily have with them at all times. Also legislation restricting the importing of firearms, like the Gun Control Act of 1968, limited their entry to the USA and other markets.
The vest pistol is not completely gone, some like the Browning Baby are still manufactured by other companies. Others were replaced by other deep-concealment pistols like the Seecamp, NAA Guardian, the Beretta 950, 21A, and the Kel-tec P32. As a general rule their single-action designs have been replaced by double-action models which offer a higher level protection against accidental discharge if carried with a round in the chamber. Finally the 25ACP cartridge has been replaced by the 32ACP as the cartridge of choice. This offers a much higher level of effectiveness with only a modest increase in weapon size.
For many men and women they were just a part of one's daily wardrobe along with your pocket watch, keys, handkerchief, wallet, etc. you'd drop one of these small pistols in your pocket and went on your way. They got their name vest pistol since they were slim enough to carry in front pocket of man's a vest without spoiling the lines of his garment. From studies I've done they generally have the following features.
1. Single-action, striker-fired, hammerless design, although there were a few that had external hammers to them. Almost none are double-action in nature.
2. Very small centerfire caliber. Almost all of them chambered the 6.35mm cartridge which is also known as the 25ACP. A few were made in 7.65mm Browning, 32ACP, and a handful were developed to fire the tiny 4.25mm Lilliput round.
3. Ultra-slim design and size optimized for ease of carry. These are very slim, flat weapons designed to be carried without giving their presence away by leaving visible bulge in ones vest pocket. Many of these are three-quarters of an inch or less in thickness. This is one of the things that limited the options in caliber. These were not your first choice for a gunfight but instead provided their owner with a discrete, modest level protection that was always with them.
The glory days of these pistols was from the beginning of the 20th century up to the start of the Second World War. After the war a variety of societal and legal pressures in Europe and the USA. redefined, for good or bad, what was considered acceptable levels of force and protection that private citizens could easily have with them at all times. Also legislation restricting the importing of firearms, like the Gun Control Act of 1968, limited their entry to the USA and other markets.
The vest pistol is not completely gone, some like the Browning Baby are still manufactured by other companies. Others were replaced by other deep-concealment pistols like the Seecamp, NAA Guardian, the Beretta 950, 21A, and the Kel-tec P32. As a general rule their single-action designs have been replaced by double-action models which offer a higher level protection against accidental discharge if carried with a round in the chamber. Finally the 25ACP cartridge has been replaced by the 32ACP as the cartridge of choice. This offers a much higher level of effectiveness with only a modest increase in weapon size.
Category All / All
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 591 x 1182px
File Size 254.7 kB
The one P32 I had a chance to fire worked like a charm. So long as you fed it Winchester Silvertips or ball ammo. Everything else it would get balky but since Silverrtips would be a good first choice for me that would not bother me to much so long it worked reliably.
Yes but if You needed something even smaller than a J-frame S&W well.... Remember the the much vaunted Seecamp was originally designed to only fire the Silvertips and it was very highly desired. They have since changed that feature apparently but for about a decade that was how it was and they couldn't build them fast enough
. Firearms and especially semi-autos can often be finicky eaters. I've seen numerous weapons that would either not cycle or group effectively but change brands or even bullet weight or shape and suddenly BAM! It falls into place.
. Firearms and especially semi-autos can often be finicky eaters. I've seen numerous weapons that would either not cycle or group effectively but change brands or even bullet weight or shape and suddenly BAM! It falls into place.
I'd prefer to be shot by nothing at all! Still 32ACP is about as small as I'd like to go for a defense round, but if conditions demand or circumstances dictate that all I have is a 22LR then so be it.
Shot placement is most important factor no matter what caliber but it will have extra importance with the smaller calibers so will multple hits. Also if one is using any brand of the rimfire rounds make certain they feed reliably through semi-auto before committing to their use as a defense round, but that is true about any firearm/ ammo combination one is using for serious social issues. This is one area where revolvers have an advantage since they are not as ammo sensitive.
Shot placement is most important factor no matter what caliber but it will have extra importance with the smaller calibers so will multple hits. Also if one is using any brand of the rimfire rounds make certain they feed reliably through semi-auto before committing to their use as a defense round, but that is true about any firearm/ ammo combination one is using for serious social issues. This is one area where revolvers have an advantage since they are not as ammo sensitive.
True, something is better than nothing. And I have heard a few stories about bizarrely effective .22 rounds. And a .22 would be cheap to practice with as well. But there are conversion kits for many firearms to convert them to .22 for shooting practice. Kimber comes to mind especially. Though I'm not 100% if the kits will change out on the smaller concealed models.
BTW, stay away from all Series II Kimbers. There's some Firing Pin/Safety issues going on right now. The Warrior is still good as that is made to a military contract design.
BTW, stay away from all Series II Kimbers. There's some Firing Pin/Safety issues going on right now. The Warrior is still good as that is made to a military contract design.
It's an insult to point out that you seem to be placing emphasis on playing video games? No, but it does suggest that you may be subject to a great deal of misinformation-laden knowledge sources on the topic at hand.
As for all there is to know about me, well...Baron has fired the best rifle I ever built. It was half-MOA, (I'd like to claim that was engineering but at that level of accuracy there's a certain amount of luck in production as well) much more accurate than I could really make good use of (most of us have more than a half-MOA wiggle) and was very, very ammunition-dependent and finicky.
I'm a well-known quantity.
As for all there is to know about me, well...Baron has fired the best rifle I ever built. It was half-MOA, (I'd like to claim that was engineering but at that level of accuracy there's a certain amount of luck in production as well) much more accurate than I could really make good use of (most of us have more than a half-MOA wiggle) and was very, very ammunition-dependent and finicky.
I'm a well-known quantity.
NO! your evil. Semi Auto weapons are mass murder tools! even thinking of such an object is sickning!
I'm , Kidding. i Enjoy your work and i'm glad some one is as detail with their weapons and interest in function as much as you are.
I'm wondering why high schools got rid of shooting teams....
I'm , Kidding. i Enjoy your work and i'm glad some one is as detail with their weapons and interest in function as much as you are.
I'm wondering why high schools got rid of shooting teams....
i would think it was because of greed. Greedy people suing if something happened to their child. so as a result insurance and other factors drove the cost out of reach of the schooling systems budget. But more than likely is was from a bunch of people across the nation who hated guns (in this case) and decided that because they did not like something; no one else should have that option either.
I hate being limited by other peoples closed narrow minds.
one of the many weapons i have is a little Titan .25 caliber single action pistol. It is not very accurate past 15 feet but it should be enough to make some duck and cover. I carry it when i am working doing food deliveries. Yeah i have a CWP.
Misha
I hate being limited by other peoples closed narrow minds.
one of the many weapons i have is a little Titan .25 caliber single action pistol. It is not very accurate past 15 feet but it should be enough to make some duck and cover. I carry it when i am working doing food deliveries. Yeah i have a CWP.
Misha
That is a question that I find a little baffling. I really don't consider it any big deal since all I'm doing is simply trying to observe the object, figure, setting either from real life, photos, or in my head and then committing that to paper. Especially when there is actual reference and I'm not dredging it up from my imagination the object will literally show you how to draw it if you just take a moment to really observe what you're trying to draw. Sorry if that sounds rather Zen but it is foundation of my drawing.
Yow, we always sold out of pocket rockets, the number one being the Kel-tecs (never got a complaint back on any of those) the NAA's (looks like a seecamp but priced like a Ruger), and lots of the mini-revolvers. Whenever we had Browning Babies for sale they flew off the tables. The Bond Arms 410 derringers are nice, but are pushing the boundaries for "pocket guns", sold alot of those. Seecamps are bloody expensive.
The little NAA revolvers tend to keyhole at close range. 22 LR is great for close in defense work, especially loaded with MAG-SAFE ammo (by the Hydra-shok people)
22 Mag is an underperformer through a short barrel, I have found that a barrel of less than 11 inches does not let the magnum loading live up to it's potential.
I carry a 32 acp CZ-70 when going light, then up to a Zastava M88 (think of it as a mini Tokarev in 9x19) and then I usually have a CZ 75 in my go bag.
I have a little Sterling in 22 that is a great little rocket, but it's only a six shot, and less can go wrong with a revolver, though they are larger. Smith and Wesson made a great little 9 shot 22 revolver, but it's damn pricey now, light as sin, though.
The little NAA revolvers tend to keyhole at close range. 22 LR is great for close in defense work, especially loaded with MAG-SAFE ammo (by the Hydra-shok people)
22 Mag is an underperformer through a short barrel, I have found that a barrel of less than 11 inches does not let the magnum loading live up to it's potential.
I carry a 32 acp CZ-70 when going light, then up to a Zastava M88 (think of it as a mini Tokarev in 9x19) and then I usually have a CZ 75 in my go bag.
I have a little Sterling in 22 that is a great little rocket, but it's only a six shot, and less can go wrong with a revolver, though they are larger. Smith and Wesson made a great little 9 shot 22 revolver, but it's damn pricey now, light as sin, though.
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