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I never approved of Charlie Hebdo's stupidity of drawing pictures of Mohammad They never seemed to have a point other than a point a monkey is trying to make when it throws it's own feces. Also I have never and will never participate in draw Mohammad Day because it is pointless other than to throw a grenade at a large group of people.
...kind of what terrorists do.
Does every Muslim deserve scorn because of terrorists? Certainly not.
We have right now various people threatening one of the most basic principles of civilization and that is Freedom of Speech. Without this freedom we are done. Charlie Hebdo doesn't draw Mohammad cartoons anymore so the terrorists demands have been met.
Is France safe? Obviously not.
Now the terrorists have new demands and new blood needs to spill on the streets of Paris. This is their method of communication and it will never change.
While I disagree with a pictures intent to show disrespect I still have to stand by their right to free speech.
The regressive left also has declared war on Freedom of Speech. Bullying tactics, Doxing, trying to get people fired because they don't agree with you. Wild theories of oppression without any facts that cannot survive in the free market of ideas.
Allow me to introduce Thunderf00t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B85RR_Jnl78
What word can you use for such people other than cultists? Radicals perhaps?
If you cannot win in a discussion without using force than what separates you from terrorists other than the level of force? If you stand against Freedom of Speech you are the threat to society.
My friends (those of you who stand for civilization) I am going to ask something very difficult from you. Prepare yourselves to stand by anyone who's freedom of Speech is threatened and also be prepared to stand against that person if they threaten someone's Freedom of Speech.
Abandon tribalism and the pettiness it always shows.
France will not fall, we who stand by civilization wont allow it.
...kind of what terrorists do.
Does every Muslim deserve scorn because of terrorists? Certainly not.
We have right now various people threatening one of the most basic principles of civilization and that is Freedom of Speech. Without this freedom we are done. Charlie Hebdo doesn't draw Mohammad cartoons anymore so the terrorists demands have been met.
Is France safe? Obviously not.
Now the terrorists have new demands and new blood needs to spill on the streets of Paris. This is their method of communication and it will never change.
While I disagree with a pictures intent to show disrespect I still have to stand by their right to free speech.
The regressive left also has declared war on Freedom of Speech. Bullying tactics, Doxing, trying to get people fired because they don't agree with you. Wild theories of oppression without any facts that cannot survive in the free market of ideas.
Allow me to introduce Thunderf00t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B85RR_Jnl78
What word can you use for such people other than cultists? Radicals perhaps?
If you cannot win in a discussion without using force than what separates you from terrorists other than the level of force? If you stand against Freedom of Speech you are the threat to society.
My friends (those of you who stand for civilization) I am going to ask something very difficult from you. Prepare yourselves to stand by anyone who's freedom of Speech is threatened and also be prepared to stand against that person if they threaten someone's Freedom of Speech.
Abandon tribalism and the pettiness it always shows.
France will not fall, we who stand by civilization wont allow it.
Category All / All
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Calling Charlie Hebdo's freedom of speech stupid is a great way to stand for freedom of speech. First you describe Mohammad caricatures as scorn towards every Muslim, then you want people to stand up when freedom of speech is threatened.
And since you bring up Thunderf00t.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7QRPvmjaoQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuD3Ex5p3Aw
And since you bring up Thunderf00t.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7QRPvmjaoQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuD3Ex5p3Aw
The point of the cartoons is to demonstrate the Freedom of Speech. Satire is there to provoke. Draw Mohammad Day is a statement that threats of violence don't silence free speech. Do you find that pointless? Drawing Mohammad is exactly what you want. Standing up for the Freedom of Speech.
Ok You have drawn a picture and you have defied their belief.
Gratz...
However I think someone's head being cut off or a school being bombed is something that needs to be looked at. Drawn. Discussed.
Let's discuss the rule itself.
If someone asks me to join a religion that forbids me to actually draw a picture of it's founder than I have to say no. That is certainly a cult like rule and I have to wonder how stable a person is to enforce a rule like that. There is no peace in the Middle East precisely because of rules such as this.
THAT IS A POINT!
So maybe communicate that.
Gratz...
However I think someone's head being cut off or a school being bombed is something that needs to be looked at. Drawn. Discussed.
Let's discuss the rule itself.
If someone asks me to join a religion that forbids me to actually draw a picture of it's founder than I have to say no. That is certainly a cult like rule and I have to wonder how stable a person is to enforce a rule like that. There is no peace in the Middle East precisely because of rules such as this.
THAT IS A POINT!
So maybe communicate that.
What kind of action do you have in mind when it comes to standing up for Freedom of Speech?
Have some more thunderf00t. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2z-YHF_GVk
I'm not a Muslim. I don't have to obey it's rules. Many people proved that by drawing Mohammad.
Have some more thunderf00t. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2z-YHF_GVk
I'm not a Muslim. I don't have to obey it's rules. Many people proved that by drawing Mohammad.
When the Charlie Hebdo murders happened, it was a strike against freedom of expression. (So is this, in a manner of speaking. A strike on our freedom to express our lives as we see fit,) In reaction, many artists started drawing protest pictures. My favorite was a line of pencils, pens and brushes with the title "Weapons of Mass Creation".
Any art/photo/digital pic supporting France and belittling the criminals masquerading as religious zealots is a form of protest that hurts no one but those it is intended to hurt.
Any art/photo/digital pic supporting France and belittling the criminals masquerading as religious zealots is a form of protest that hurts no one but those it is intended to hurt.
There are things about France many countries do not understand, about Charlie Hebdo, and about our "freedom of speech", and you perfectly express this here.
First, since those terrorist attacks, everybody got their eyes on this magazine and on their "obsession" against islam. They all focused on this... and everybody got it wrong! See for example this article: http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article.....8297_3232.html
Since it's all in french, lemme resume it in a few words. Between 2005 and 2015, there have been 38 covers focused on religion, and among these covers... Only 20% about islam. Better, all covers reunited during this period, covers focused on islam represent a tiny 1,3% !!!!
Now lemme explain you the main thing about France, moreover about our history. More than 200 years, we french people of the mass rebelled against rich people, against bourgeoisie, against nobles... and against clergy, that was as rich, perverted and wicked as bourgeoisie against the mass, if not more. Satirical pamphlets and tales against nobles and clergy is an integral part of french history. This is what made our "freedom of speech" so famous. You americans who got religious symbols on your very money cannot fully understand this (no offense, that's just another point of view), so what can you say about muslims whose social and political life is ruled by religious texts?!
Mocking religion IS a french thing. All religions. We are not going to stop french because some extremists want to import their kumran. We are not going to do that even to be just kind with the entire muslim world, even if we want good relations and even if the majority of them is peaceful.
Remember this is Sparta? Well, THIS IS FRANCE! You (not "you" of course) don't like our way of seeing things? You despise our very history then? Well, GET OUT!!!!
The day we will respect religion, will be the day France will cease to exist.
Note about that that there are two ways of reading "respect". We french people DO respect everybody's beliefs. But the satire, which is a certain form of disrespect, is engraved in our soil. Though it is a kind of disrespect that is NOT meant to bash concerned people. Understand that and you will understand France. Till now there are not many people really able to make that differentiation. Maybe you just have to be french to perceive the subtlety.
First, since those terrorist attacks, everybody got their eyes on this magazine and on their "obsession" against islam. They all focused on this... and everybody got it wrong! See for example this article: http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article.....8297_3232.html
Since it's all in french, lemme resume it in a few words. Between 2005 and 2015, there have been 38 covers focused on religion, and among these covers... Only 20% about islam. Better, all covers reunited during this period, covers focused on islam represent a tiny 1,3% !!!!
Now lemme explain you the main thing about France, moreover about our history. More than 200 years, we french people of the mass rebelled against rich people, against bourgeoisie, against nobles... and against clergy, that was as rich, perverted and wicked as bourgeoisie against the mass, if not more. Satirical pamphlets and tales against nobles and clergy is an integral part of french history. This is what made our "freedom of speech" so famous. You americans who got religious symbols on your very money cannot fully understand this (no offense, that's just another point of view), so what can you say about muslims whose social and political life is ruled by religious texts?!
Mocking religion IS a french thing. All religions. We are not going to stop french because some extremists want to import their kumran. We are not going to do that even to be just kind with the entire muslim world, even if we want good relations and even if the majority of them is peaceful.
Remember this is Sparta? Well, THIS IS FRANCE! You (not "you" of course) don't like our way of seeing things? You despise our very history then? Well, GET OUT!!!!
The day we will respect religion, will be the day France will cease to exist.
Note about that that there are two ways of reading "respect". We french people DO respect everybody's beliefs. But the satire, which is a certain form of disrespect, is engraved in our soil. Though it is a kind of disrespect that is NOT meant to bash concerned people. Understand that and you will understand France. Till now there are not many people really able to make that differentiation. Maybe you just have to be french to perceive the subtlety.
It's good to hear a different point of view. I don't agree with disrespect for the sake of disrespect however even if I don't participate in that disrespect I still have to stand with free speech.
I believe that the Muslim faith will always be in some sort of war because they don't value freedom of speech.
I believe that the Muslim faith will always be in some sort of war because they don't value freedom of speech.
The problem I see is that freedom of speech is important.
Very important.
However, I see the issue already in aspects such as mass surveillance, which basically undermine the basic principle of freedom of speech and freedom of .. .what was the word? Congregation?
That is a problem in so far as that I see states as well as societies happily throwing away these rights which they claim to wish to protect.
And the measures are pointless in preventing terrorist attacks as terrorists can plan their actions in a tent and then use public events for synchronizing their actions, making every effort at pattern tracking or similar surveillance techniques pointless.
However, another thing makes me laugh.
When a small boy get bullied by others, he'll call for his big brothers.
So, there the strong ones come to the help of the weak.
I always thought that deities in monotheistic religions are all powerful.
So:
Why does a deitiy need close-in firesupport from (some of) it's followers?
Is maybe the religion not true, and the deity is not all-powerful?
Are the attacks on the religion true, and correct, and thus the followers have to admit to themselves that, with their deity an empty shell, the only way to silence the other party is by killing them, as they won't be punished in any other way, there not beign a hell awaitign them in their afterlife to punish them for their deeds in this life?
Oh-oh! So those attacking using force maybe have realized that that is all they can do, because there's no deity there that will punish those mocking him?
Or, maybe, their deity has humor .. and its followers have not?
Whichever way I look at it, leavign out Kalashnikovs and bombs, I always end up at that point that, seemingly, aggressive acts purported by religious - or organisational, or political, or philosophical - fanatics is a good indicator that their reasoning is fundamentally... flawed.
Very important.
However, I see the issue already in aspects such as mass surveillance, which basically undermine the basic principle of freedom of speech and freedom of .. .what was the word? Congregation?
That is a problem in so far as that I see states as well as societies happily throwing away these rights which they claim to wish to protect.
And the measures are pointless in preventing terrorist attacks as terrorists can plan their actions in a tent and then use public events for synchronizing their actions, making every effort at pattern tracking or similar surveillance techniques pointless.
However, another thing makes me laugh.
When a small boy get bullied by others, he'll call for his big brothers.
So, there the strong ones come to the help of the weak.
I always thought that deities in monotheistic religions are all powerful.
So:
Why does a deitiy need close-in firesupport from (some of) it's followers?
Is maybe the religion not true, and the deity is not all-powerful?
Are the attacks on the religion true, and correct, and thus the followers have to admit to themselves that, with their deity an empty shell, the only way to silence the other party is by killing them, as they won't be punished in any other way, there not beign a hell awaitign them in their afterlife to punish them for their deeds in this life?
Oh-oh! So those attacking using force maybe have realized that that is all they can do, because there's no deity there that will punish those mocking him?
Or, maybe, their deity has humor .. and its followers have not?
Whichever way I look at it, leavign out Kalashnikovs and bombs, I always end up at that point that, seemingly, aggressive acts purported by religious - or organisational, or political, or philosophical - fanatics is a good indicator that their reasoning is fundamentally... flawed.
The new "in" thing is to shit on progressive liberals because they've started pointing out the behavior of the screeching assholes online and in general, and we cant have that because FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Nevermind that freedom of speech is not, and never have been, a blank check to blurt out whatever horrible thing you want with no consequence.
Disagreeing with someone online shouldn't mean having them fired from their job. Which is exactly what a lot of younger liberals want.
Older liberals are a little pissed off about anyone who messes with free speech. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phA_mGxR4-A
Older liberals are a little pissed off about anyone who messes with free speech. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phA_mGxR4-A
The terrorists who did it ARE dead. And yes, obviously ISIS has to be wiped out, but pretending Charlie Hebdo is some sort of sentinel of justice is a goddamn lie. They were nothing but a crude, obnoxious dirtrag who went looking for trouble and got more than they bargained for. And fight for freedom of speech, who are we even kidding? We're gonna do what we always do, we're gonna sit here in front of our computers and bitch and moan about irrelevant bullshit, while high-tech murderbots are wiping out our nations enemies. Its not even a real fight, the only real challenge for our side is covering up all the civilians they accidently strafe when they confuse a wedding party for a terrorist camp. This whole thing is a fucking joke.
What the fuck are you even talking about? I'm not calling for MORE war, I'm saying that pretending any of this is some sort of epic struggle against evil is just a delusion. ISIS is partly OUR goverments fault, its their constant goddamn meddling in the Middle East that created these monsters. This whole thing is just the same damn geopolitical chess game they've been playing for decades that finally bit them in the ass, except instead of hurting them, it hurt us. But no, now we all have to hold hands and pretend we're doing a fucking thing different than we were last month. Or the month before that. Or the month before that. And we? We just sit here, making grand speeches online, like anything we say matters. What will happen will happen, because its not our wants and needs that moves the world.
Grow up yourself
Grow up yourself
I never saw the point of those repeat Mohammad caricatures. They discovered that religious extremists get upset when you mock their religion? Amazing! And if you keep doing it they keep getting upset. Fantastic! Who would have thought? Nobel prize material right there. Are we going to mock another belief system than Islam now and see what happens? Of course not, don't be silly.
Still, what people do with their freedom of speech is up to them I guess. You don't have to respect them or their opinions, just their freedom of speech, which is, I think, part of the point you're making. And if so, I agree.
Still, what people do with their freedom of speech is up to them I guess. You don't have to respect them or their opinions, just their freedom of speech, which is, I think, part of the point you're making. And if so, I agree.
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