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More from Karno
I love animals. I draw the pretty ones, and eat the tasty ones. Animals are good to me.
Category All / All
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Only went hunting once, at age 12. Aimed for the chest (Center of mass, as you are always told to go for.) Fired, recoil damned near knocked me over, and wound up hitting the jugular and the trachea.
Was a fun time for the week we were up at the cabin, if you ignore the tromping for 8 hours a day through the snow, or parking in a tree for three hours in -10 F weather.
Was a fun time for the week we were up at the cabin, if you ignore the tromping for 8 hours a day through the snow, or parking in a tree for three hours in -10 F weather.
It covered gun and bow safety, we were taught how to hold the gun and shoot it, and we were taken to the firing range for live fire, during which the gun I used (a .410 bore) was alot lighter on recoil compared to the 30-30 I was using when we went hunting. It was also significantly warmer, and I was much less frozen during the hunter safety classes.
I would tell you that you should always fire some training shots with the gun you want to use, but that'd be completely hypocritical^^.
Bow... I can't understand why it can be allowed to hunt with such a thing. It might a greater challange but even if you're a master, the chance of getting a quick, clean kill is much smaller than with a rifle.
Bow... I can't understand why it can be allowed to hunt with such a thing. It might a greater challange but even if you're a master, the chance of getting a quick, clean kill is much smaller than with a rifle.
Wrong a true hunter respects and honors the prey and if they are truely a hunter they do not take trophys but uses every part of the animal exept the heart..... That must be returned to the spirit of the animal to retain it's spirit and strength so it can come back..... A trophy is not a respect to the animal but for that hunter to show his buddies that he can just kill....
I think it's really funny that so many people are replying with 'oh you shouldn't hunt because of the meat market' arguments. Personally I'd feel better eating an animal that actually had the opportunity to thrive in it's natural habitat rather than some poor miserable creature forced to live in a stinking pen, wallowing in it's own shit while being pumped full of chemicals to keep it from dying under deplorable conditions until it's brutally slaughtered and shipped off. Yeah, factory farming is soooo much more humane and civilized than hunting.
You've clearly not heard of the "buffalo jump" hunting technique used by native americans, where they'd find a herd near a cliff's edge and spook them over the edge. Then they'd only take the choices meats and leave the rest. Here's your link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump.
Two comments:
1: This article does not cite any references or sources, and is flagged for such omissions.
2: Please note the timing, and that the practice is noted to have ended when the bow and arrow arrived, making it possible for hunters to actually kill buffalo at range. Given the size disparity, did you have some better suggestion for primitive hunters to kill something the size of a bison prior to reliable ranged weapons?
1: This article does not cite any references or sources, and is flagged for such omissions.
2: Please note the timing, and that the practice is noted to have ended when the bow and arrow arrived, making it possible for hunters to actually kill buffalo at range. Given the size disparity, did you have some better suggestion for primitive hunters to kill something the size of a bison prior to reliable ranged weapons?
When ever we get a deer We always use all the meat, I should know while I'm not the hunter in the family I've the one they make dress and butcher it.
we're not much for trophies but there are several places in the area who take the skin in trade. We usualy trad in a deer pelt for some nice moose leather moccasins... My mom swears they are the best she's ever found, gets a new pair every year (weather we have the trade in or not) even the dog likes the super soft moose leather.
It's why my dad said he'd never hunt bear again... the meat tastes terrible there is no reason to hunt them if you can't eat them
we're not much for trophies but there are several places in the area who take the skin in trade. We usualy trad in a deer pelt for some nice moose leather moccasins... My mom swears they are the best she's ever found, gets a new pair every year (weather we have the trade in or not) even the dog likes the super soft moose leather.
It's why my dad said he'd never hunt bear again... the meat tastes terrible there is no reason to hunt them if you can't eat them
Oy vey, this old argument. I've been in a few spats for the whole "Meat is Murder"-crowd, and in my experience, intelligent people don't get into it.
I think the main point the real zealots often miss, is that humans are basically predators. We're pretty much the same thing as a housecat. Sure, it's small, cute and purrs, and while it has claws and teeth, we don't consider it much of a threat. In fact, some people might think that cats are the most peaceful craetures on the planet. But there is a reason that cats have natural weapons, evolved senses and hunting instincts.
As for the whole anti-hunting debate: I'm not a hunter. Most people is the civilized world aren't anymore, because we don't need to be; we have more than enough to make it by without hunting.
That said, I have absolutely no compassion for people that hunt for sport or just to get a new trophy to stuff and mount. Shooting an animal just to see if you can (or worse, for kicks) is nothing but pure cruelty.
If the day ever comes that I have to hunt for food, I will take only what I need. And I hope that at the time, I will be wise enough to know how much that is.
I think the main point the real zealots often miss, is that humans are basically predators. We're pretty much the same thing as a housecat. Sure, it's small, cute and purrs, and while it has claws and teeth, we don't consider it much of a threat. In fact, some people might think that cats are the most peaceful craetures on the planet. But there is a reason that cats have natural weapons, evolved senses and hunting instincts.
As for the whole anti-hunting debate: I'm not a hunter. Most people is the civilized world aren't anymore, because we don't need to be; we have more than enough to make it by without hunting.
That said, I have absolutely no compassion for people that hunt for sport or just to get a new trophy to stuff and mount. Shooting an animal just to see if you can (or worse, for kicks) is nothing but pure cruelty.
If the day ever comes that I have to hunt for food, I will take only what I need. And I hope that at the time, I will be wise enough to know how much that is.
actually I wouldn't argue that were preditors. Early on we'd have probably been little more then scavengers of meat. The human form is some what bereft of natural weapons and advantages when it comes to hunting. in a lot of cases we're out classed by our fat and lazy house cats in this area. It's only because we developed the means to use tools that we've been able to adapt a predatory nature. I think humans know some where deep down that we're still food. it's why we have the fear and fascination that we have towards the great predatory beasts that are still out there
I dislike hunting because there doesn't seem to be much of a challenge for the hunter, and that the most dangerous thing happens to be the hunter themselves or other hunters.
It's kind of like the argument against junk mail, being that paper is farmed instead of a natural forest somewhere getting ripped up...
It's kind of like the argument against junk mail, being that paper is farmed instead of a natural forest somewhere getting ripped up...
well except most times you can be a ainti-hunter and still eat meat and not be a hypocrite.
i mean most meet we eat really isn't "hunted" now raised on fat farms for the pure purpose of being slaughtered like the heavenly animals that they are. So i dunno again i really would call that hunting....of course i happen to think venison meat is some of the tastier stuff, and venison jerky is the best damn stuff on the planet, especially if you kill it yourself.
i mean most meet we eat really isn't "hunted" now raised on fat farms for the pure purpose of being slaughtered like the heavenly animals that they are. So i dunno again i really would call that hunting....of course i happen to think venison meat is some of the tastier stuff, and venison jerky is the best damn stuff on the planet, especially if you kill it yourself.
Well, -over- hunting can be a considerable problem, also the idea of prize hunting or hunting rare or exotic animals for no purpose then the kill both gave hunters a bad name and it just sort of stuck.
I do think that people all and all eat a bit too much meat all in all, but I personally don't really have a problem with eating meat or hunting in and of itself. Just hope for some moderation, you know?
I do think that people all and all eat a bit too much meat all in all, but I personally don't really have a problem with eating meat or hunting in and of itself. Just hope for some moderation, you know?
Ive never met a hunter who hunted out of necessity; they were always sadistic assholes who did it purely for the thrill, and any use they made of the animal's remains was just an afterthought.
Modern hunting isnt about survival, its a sport. Anyone contributing to this discussion has access to both electricity and the internet so they arent living in one of the places in the world where hunting for food is necessary.
Modern hunting isnt about survival, its a sport. Anyone contributing to this discussion has access to both electricity and the internet so they arent living in one of the places in the world where hunting for food is necessary.
Pardon?!!! I have been an advid hunter for years and I follow the old ways where everything is used except for the heart which I return to the spirit of the animal out of respect, honor and gratitude for what it has provided for me.... Plus when I did hunt I also hunted for some people that is unable to eat meat from the proccesing plants because of what is put into them and don't think those organic meats are all clean either.....
Yeah, because disease and parasite-ridden meat is such a better alternative... you can catch far worse things from eating wild venison than just mild indigestion. There are pros and cons to both options, so dont pretend one is obviously superior to another.
I stand by my words : if you have access to electricity and internet, then for you hunting is a form of recreation, not a matter of survival, no matter how you choose to justify the act.
I stand by my words : if you have access to electricity and internet, then for you hunting is a form of recreation, not a matter of survival, no matter how you choose to justify the act.
actually wild meat is better for you and cleaner than like say the bovine eating up the bonemeal from it's former herd and getting mad cow desease or most sausage or chickens ar natural carriers of samanilla because they wind up eating their own feceis.... Hunting is a natural part of the eco system and not some means for amusement when I hunt it's for the meat... I don't take trophies or leave the animal to rot.... If I cannot use it all I share it with friends that cannot eat the meat that comes from stores because it can make them sick and die....
Its 'natural' to have a very short lifespan due to ingesting diseased and parasite infested food, but that doesnt make it preferable.
In the food industry there are health and safety regulations which is why mad cow disease and salmonella outbreaks are mostly a thing of decades past. Clinging to the misguided belief that agriculturally farmed and processed meats are 'unsafe' is paranoid; not merely conservative but regressive.
Prion diseases (ie. transmissible spongiform encephalopathy like mad-cow disease), such as Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, are also linked to the regular consumption of wild game meat. Game-bird hunters are themselves at significant risk of mosquito-borne viral infections such as West-Nile disease.
Most significantly, people with diets consisting of game meat from animals killed with lead bullets have been found to have high levels of lead in their blood, which is a serious health risk for pregnant women and young children, though not particularly healthy for anyone.
In the food industry there are health and safety regulations which is why mad cow disease and salmonella outbreaks are mostly a thing of decades past. Clinging to the misguided belief that agriculturally farmed and processed meats are 'unsafe' is paranoid; not merely conservative but regressive.
Prion diseases (ie. transmissible spongiform encephalopathy like mad-cow disease), such as Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, are also linked to the regular consumption of wild game meat. Game-bird hunters are themselves at significant risk of mosquito-borne viral infections such as West-Nile disease.
Most significantly, people with diets consisting of game meat from animals killed with lead bullets have been found to have high levels of lead in their blood, which is a serious health risk for pregnant women and young children, though not particularly healthy for anyone.
I am of a slightly different mindset.
Cows? Bred for generations as nothing more then low intelligent stacks of meat and mass production of milk due to large mamary glands.
Gimme a steak!
Chickens? Again, dull witted. Flightless and easy prey for everything. I honestly think that they would be extinct if out in the wild.
Gimme KFC!
Basically it goes like this:
I am all right with the hunting of most animals, provided it is done in MODERATION. mass slaughtering I find unacceptable unless the animal is, as stated, quite dumb and/or is heavly over populated.
Like, a single hunter shoots a buck... maybe two within a month period. Now, I'm not talking about mountain men who need to LIVE off the wildlife that they can hunt and catch.
I'm talking about those pansy city folk who shoot anything that moves (including guys wearing racoon hats).
Cows? Bred for generations as nothing more then low intelligent stacks of meat and mass production of milk due to large mamary glands.
Gimme a steak!
Chickens? Again, dull witted. Flightless and easy prey for everything. I honestly think that they would be extinct if out in the wild.
Gimme KFC!
Basically it goes like this:
I am all right with the hunting of most animals, provided it is done in MODERATION. mass slaughtering I find unacceptable unless the animal is, as stated, quite dumb and/or is heavly over populated.
Like, a single hunter shoots a buck... maybe two within a month period. Now, I'm not talking about mountain men who need to LIVE off the wildlife that they can hunt and catch.
I'm talking about those pansy city folk who shoot anything that moves (including guys wearing racoon hats).
There's a difference in my opinion between hunting (deerstalking with a rifle) and hunting (chasing a fox with hounds, while on horseback) - the former is a noble test of skill where you eat the end product, the latter is the equivalent of carpet bombing or shooting fish in a barrel.
As long as the quarry is dispatched quickly (and humanely), I don't have a problem with it.
As long as the quarry is dispatched quickly (and humanely), I don't have a problem with it.
I don't object to hunters who go out, hunt, then actually USE the animal. I'm against the ones who go out and kill the animal just so they can mount some head on their living room wall over the fireplace, or just shoot animals (usually the small ones) just to watch the bloodspray.
Killing with purpose is fine. Just killing to make things die is pointless and sickening.
Killing with purpose is fine. Just killing to make things die is pointless and sickening.
oh god that reminds me of this article I read a few years back (4 or 5 i think) where they had a "prairie dog hunt" in which they went out with high powered or maybe it was high caliber rifles, and shot them just to see how little was left or how high the bodies flew. made me sick/pissed me off.
The real hunting? I respect those people. The ones that use it, of course. If I were a hunter, I would use all of it.... and if part of it was trophy worthy I *would* keep it. but I would never go out just for trophies.
Also- I love your icon
The real hunting? I respect those people. The ones that use it, of course. If I were a hunter, I would use all of it.... and if part of it was trophy worthy I *would* keep it. but I would never go out just for trophies.
Also- I love your icon
Animals are delicious. I just got done eating one. I'll probably have some grilled venison burgers once it warms up, too.
But the thing that really bugs me about all this is those people think that eating cows is fine, since their lives are miserable, they probably don't mind dying, but hunting deer, turkey, rabbit, squirrels, ducks, hogs, or pheasants is terrible, since they have their freedom. Wouldn't it then be far more humane to let the animals live out a life of freedom, the only interference of man being a quick, painless death, as opposed to being loaded on and off trucks, injected with vaccines, hormones, and stuff, wallowing in a pen of your own filth, only to be put on another truck, and finally taken to a factory where the goal is to turn your body into meat?
But the thing that really bugs me about all this is those people think that eating cows is fine, since their lives are miserable, they probably don't mind dying, but hunting deer, turkey, rabbit, squirrels, ducks, hogs, or pheasants is terrible, since they have their freedom. Wouldn't it then be far more humane to let the animals live out a life of freedom, the only interference of man being a quick, painless death, as opposed to being loaded on and off trucks, injected with vaccines, hormones, and stuff, wallowing in a pen of your own filth, only to be put on another truck, and finally taken to a factory where the goal is to turn your body into meat?
Hunting herbivores does not bother me, usually. The predators in most areas have been so thoroughly extirpated that if hunting were not allowed, starvation and disease among the herbivores would be extensive. However, there are some things I do not like:
1. Using hunting as an excuse to kill the local predators. This is happening in Alaska as we speak. Wolves are being shot from the air so there will be more caribou and moose for the human hunters. Naturally the local predators are blamed for the current lack of prey. It can't have anything to do with all those locals on snow machines carrying rifles.
2. Killing predators for trophies or merely to say you have done it. This is just masturbation. "I'm a big man 'cos I shot a bear from a nice, safe distance with this here rifle."
3. Declaring predators "vermin" and allowing them to be shot on sight. Happens a lot with coyotes, among other things, in the U.S. Right now it will likely start happening to wolves in the Lower 48 once they are off the endangered species list. Rednecks with guns will shoot anything that moves if they are allowed to.
1. Using hunting as an excuse to kill the local predators. This is happening in Alaska as we speak. Wolves are being shot from the air so there will be more caribou and moose for the human hunters. Naturally the local predators are blamed for the current lack of prey. It can't have anything to do with all those locals on snow machines carrying rifles.
2. Killing predators for trophies or merely to say you have done it. This is just masturbation. "I'm a big man 'cos I shot a bear from a nice, safe distance with this here rifle."
3. Declaring predators "vermin" and allowing them to be shot on sight. Happens a lot with coyotes, among other things, in the U.S. Right now it will likely start happening to wolves in the Lower 48 once they are off the endangered species list. Rednecks with guns will shoot anything that moves if they are allowed to.
I just think it's unnecessary. We got video games and supermarkets, for violence and food respectively. I got lots of guns but going to the rage is good enough for me (you get to actually shoot the gun a lot more that way). If I want that good old American "look how far his head went!" feeling I can just pop the latest shooter into my 360. At the end of the day I have no desire to kill small inoffensive creatures for fun. And lets be real kiddies, people do it for fun even if they are eating the meat. They go hunting to have a good time, not as an extra challenging form of grocery shopping it's not a chore its a fun activity. You can debate weather or not eating some or all of the animal is better somehow, but the critter is dead either way so from his point of view I don't suppose it matters much. I don't think of it as an incredibly heinous crime, at least not when the animal has a sporting chance, and it's quick and humane (so fox hunting, hunting in fenced in parks or from blinds that dispense food and the like, or say hunting from planes, etc. are right out) I also think hunting predators is not right. Herbivores get hunted, that's how the food chain works, they're sort of set up to handle it. Predators aren't. But mainly, I just think it's kind of petty to go out and cause pain and kill just for the rush.
PS
One thing about the way in which we hunt that I am very strongly against is that we tend seek out the biggest strongest animal to kill (for instance dear hunters try to find the biggest buck with the largest antlers). We cause genetic damage to the hunted species by shooting the most impressive specimens we can find rather than the sick, old, or otherwise somehow weak as a natural predator would. Thereby preventing the best specimens from passing on their strong genes and allowing inferior members of the species to pass on their weak ones.
PS
One thing about the way in which we hunt that I am very strongly against is that we tend seek out the biggest strongest animal to kill (for instance dear hunters try to find the biggest buck with the largest antlers). We cause genetic damage to the hunted species by shooting the most impressive specimens we can find rather than the sick, old, or otherwise somehow weak as a natural predator would. Thereby preventing the best specimens from passing on their strong genes and allowing inferior members of the species to pass on their weak ones.
I personally dont think hunting is necessary any more, its nothing more than a bloodsport.
There is a very clear difference between eating farm animals, mass bred and reared for meat, and going out and killing something else. Every hunter I have known has done it for nothing more than the thrill and the excuse to use the gun.
In essence, there is no need due to the fact there is meat out there that can be bought and ate.
In fact, there is so much of it many animals go to waste as the expiration date comes on the meat and it is thrown away. Further highlighting the 'there is no need for this' argument, even if you do eat it, and many do not.
So, I don't think this comic captioned argument holds any weight.
There is a very clear difference between eating farm animals, mass bred and reared for meat, and going out and killing something else. Every hunter I have known has done it for nothing more than the thrill and the excuse to use the gun.
In essence, there is no need due to the fact there is meat out there that can be bought and ate.
In fact, there is so much of it many animals go to waste as the expiration date comes on the meat and it is thrown away. Further highlighting the 'there is no need for this' argument, even if you do eat it, and many do not.
So, I don't think this comic captioned argument holds any weight.
I live in Montana. The deer here are like mice -- they are so... everywhere. There are no natural predators, as they've all been hunted to virtual extinction and the deer population has inflated to insanity. The state capitol city of Helena, nearby to my location recently had to kill 300 deer within city limits. There exists a herd of an estimated 1,200 deer within the city limits of 55,000 (human population) over 9 square miles. That's just the city. Outside the city, the deer are like a veritable plague of rodents.
Here's where I have a problem with hunters -- most of them. See, most hunters will not shoot the first game that comes by. No. The hunter will hold out until an EXCELLENT paragon of the prey species comes along that will make a good trophy.
Here's the problem. Many of the deer are not healthy. They are sickly and stunted. There are so many of them that mange circulates freely amongst them. They do not grow up to their full potential size because of crowding. I know because I live in a home inside the forest, I see them all the time going about in large groups and sickly-looking, patchy fur.
For a hunter to come along and IGNORE all the sick deer and shoot ONLY the prize buck whose antlers will make a nice wall trophy means that the already jeopardized QUALITY of the gene pool for the deer decreases as only the best breeding animals are harvested.
I cannot blame the hunters. If I traveled umpteen miles to get to Montana, paid for lodging, get all the gear and licenses together, and was willing to sit in the mountains in frigid weather, I'd be pretty disappointed if all I got out of the deal was some scrawny little flea-bitten varmint.
The ranchers, understandably, raise holy hell against the reintroduction of natural predators to protect their investments, thus requiring human intervention to control the deer population, and only the best deer are taken by hunters as trophies. It's like, "Survival of the Sickest".
Additionally, the deer are becoming more responsive to human development. In hunting season, the deer population within urbanized areas quintuples. Apparently, the deer are learning that they don't get shot at in the city limits, and have learned to move into town when they hear gunfire. This makes for "interesting" traffic situations, and court cases have been tried in the past year when some nutjob sadistic citizens (read: gang members) decided to try to torture (read: corner and beat and then cut the injured creatures apart with knives while still alive) some of the animals.
The police department of the city was called in to create their own improvised devices to trap and kill the excess deer. Some bleeding heart citizens cried and cried to the local newspaper when the program to cull a fourth of the city's herd was executed. Their cause for complaint was not concern for animal rights. Rather, these people had become attached to the animals walking about the streets and laying in their yards. They were sort of... part of the city, and some Helenens felt the deer were "citizens" too.
Here's where I have a problem with hunters -- most of them. See, most hunters will not shoot the first game that comes by. No. The hunter will hold out until an EXCELLENT paragon of the prey species comes along that will make a good trophy.
Here's the problem. Many of the deer are not healthy. They are sickly and stunted. There are so many of them that mange circulates freely amongst them. They do not grow up to their full potential size because of crowding. I know because I live in a home inside the forest, I see them all the time going about in large groups and sickly-looking, patchy fur.
For a hunter to come along and IGNORE all the sick deer and shoot ONLY the prize buck whose antlers will make a nice wall trophy means that the already jeopardized QUALITY of the gene pool for the deer decreases as only the best breeding animals are harvested.
I cannot blame the hunters. If I traveled umpteen miles to get to Montana, paid for lodging, get all the gear and licenses together, and was willing to sit in the mountains in frigid weather, I'd be pretty disappointed if all I got out of the deal was some scrawny little flea-bitten varmint.
The ranchers, understandably, raise holy hell against the reintroduction of natural predators to protect their investments, thus requiring human intervention to control the deer population, and only the best deer are taken by hunters as trophies. It's like, "Survival of the Sickest".
Additionally, the deer are becoming more responsive to human development. In hunting season, the deer population within urbanized areas quintuples. Apparently, the deer are learning that they don't get shot at in the city limits, and have learned to move into town when they hear gunfire. This makes for "interesting" traffic situations, and court cases have been tried in the past year when some nutjob sadistic citizens (read: gang members) decided to try to torture (read: corner and beat and then cut the injured creatures apart with knives while still alive) some of the animals.
The police department of the city was called in to create their own improvised devices to trap and kill the excess deer. Some bleeding heart citizens cried and cried to the local newspaper when the program to cull a fourth of the city's herd was executed. Their cause for complaint was not concern for animal rights. Rather, these people had become attached to the animals walking about the streets and laying in their yards. They were sort of... part of the city, and some Helenens felt the deer were "citizens" too.
Deer, free of the control the now all but completely gone large land predators once provided, have been killing off forests for a good while, now.
The greening and blossoming of Yellowstone after wolves were introduced would seem to reinforce the Green World Hypothesis: If we want a world of forests, songbirds, flowers, and beauty...we need to control the damn deer.
Bring back the predators!
The greening and blossoming of Yellowstone after wolves were introduced would seem to reinforce the Green World Hypothesis: If we want a world of forests, songbirds, flowers, and beauty...we need to control the damn deer.
Bring back the predators!
I wouldn't say I'm anti-hunting. I'm anti-bagged-sport hunting.
C'mon, if you have a super rifle with super scopes, and are putting on all the stops, on top of a canned hunt.... where's the point other than the sick need to kill?
Hunting for dinner is whole different story :)
C'mon, if you have a super rifle with super scopes, and are putting on all the stops, on top of a canned hunt.... where's the point other than the sick need to kill?
Hunting for dinner is whole different story :)
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