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WARNING! OPINIONS AHEAD
This is another one of these topics that I've briefly touched upon in the past or ranted about on twitter, but it's time that I make a long post about it clearly stating how I feel about the subject.
Warning for anyone who has been through trauma, there will be mention of abuse, rape, suicide, violence and other nasty things.
Discourse and the Anti-Sentiment
For those who are fortunate enough not to know about this, I'll give a brief summary:
In all sorts of fandoms, from the furries, to the weeaboos to the video game nerds, there's been an uprising of those who hold a strong opinion against certain controversial tropes. These include mentions or allusions to rape, domestic abuse, child pornography, drug use, and other unpleasant things.
While at first thought you may be saying, "So what Vivian? I hate these things too! There's nothing wrong with that." And herein lies the rub. The issue of the matter is that these people, who refer to themselves generally as "anti's" are inherently against the mention or theme of ANY subject that even vaguely causes harm even in works of fiction.
It's easy to miss it on websites such as furaffinity, since most of us on this website are adults who understand the distinction between reality and fiction, but even then there are others who join the anti movement vehemently, such as the FurryNetwork incident a few months ago which was basically a repeat of the Inkbunny exodus.
Honestly, its a movement I've despised and as it starts to expand and gain momentum, as does my rage and discomfort. Anti's have a multitude of arguments for their cause that are short-sighted, manipulative and entitled. The difficulty is communicating to the average person exactly why this movement is such a huge problem when it comes to artistic integrity, creative freedom and the safety of others.
To give a short summary of what Anti's do in depth I'll give you a few simple formulas.
Anti: [X] is such a horrible [game/show/artist] because it contains [Y] which [harms survivors/reinforces X in real life/is illegal]
In this essay I'm going to do my best to break down anti arguments and try to explain to you why this social movement is so toxic.
Anti Argument #1 This shouldn't contain [X] because [Y] is illegal and it could get people in trouble for even looking at X
I'm gonna come out and say that this is a direct statement against those who were against the FurryNetwork stance on allowing cub porn and avoiding inkbunny. Now let's adress the elephant in the room. Child Pornography and its distribution is wrong. Point blank. Here's where I'm going to get people to hate me.
A depiction of an fictional underage character in a sexual situation is not child pornography UNLESS the depiction is that of a real child OR it is a lifelike CGI rendering according to United States Law.
"But Viv, there was that guy a long time ago that shows up on Google search who was arrested because he had so much lolicon!" If you investigation the case, you'll realize that the man also had real pictures of children as well, he would have been arrested with or without the lolicon, it's merely an extraneous detail.
Secondly, legality does not equal morality. Interracial Marriage, Alcohol, Divorce, Marijuana, Anal Sex, Oral Sex, Gay Marriage are all things that are or have been illegal in the past.
In addition, if you want to INSIST that being legal means its okay, how about looking into the fact that beastiality is currently legal in over 5 states of the U.S., raping your wife was legal until /1993/, and don't even get me started on civilians owning assault rifles.
Legality is put into place to provide order to a society, it's not your shortcut to a moral compass.
Also, you can't get in trouble for being on a website where something illegal is going on. I don't know where that rumour started, but its completely nonsense and overinflated. That statement might have validity if you had an account on Ashley Madison, which was specifically for those looking to cuck their "S/O" but the reality is that the situation is more like you're on OKCupid and theres a small section of people who want to cheat but that doesn't mean you have anything to do with it.
Anti Argument #2 [X] containing [Y] is DISGUSTING and is an insult to those who survived [Y] Addendum: Not aimed at survivors.
This is simultaneously the hardest and easiest thing to argue, and it even goes back to the first point. For example, it's pretty reasonable for CSA survivors to want to avoid content that reminds them of their trauma, however the problem lies in that people who have been through traumatic experiences cope differently.
As common as it is for someone who has been beaten to want to avoid any media that contains violence, it's just as common for someone who has been beaten to actively SEEK out media that contains violence as a cathartic experience. Of course, the needs of one survivor should never be put above another. This problem can be rectified with proper tagging (which most people do) but many Anti's actually ENTER the tags to complain about how disgusting it is or say that it should be hided away and not be talked about at all. In addition, anti's claim that the only people "allowed" to create and enjoy such things are other survivors!
So this point has been talked about pretty well on tumblr, dissected down to the nitty gritty details on how it violently mirrors the shame and abuse survivors experiences in the first place, but I wanted to hit the dead horse with my own bat as well.
As many people who have either followed my furaffinity or my old tumblrs, I'm a survivor of abuse. The thing is /I shouldn't have to out myself for permission to enjoy something./ Also, for anyone who wants "proof" that I've been through some deep dark shit in my life, feel free to look through my journals on furaffinity or check the "abuse" tag on fruk-this.tumblr that way you can see pictures, sound clips and vents dating all the way back to 2014 before this shit even started.
I've always had problems being abused and being taken advantage of and thus I've always found dark, violent and depressing content to be a way to navigate my feelings. It's a part of therapy for me.
"But Vivian, aside from Triste, you don't even draw that much "problematic stuff" "
...
Exactly.
This presence of blind hate has always pressed down on my chest, leading me to have this fear of drawing what I really wanted to create. In fact, I believe it was only 6 months ago that I finally relaxed and settled down into the femboy niche. Which believe me, I really enjoy, no if ands or buts about it! But before then I kind of pressed down my desires to make even basic porn because I didn't want to be called a zoophile, pedophile , ableist or any other shit people have up their sleeves.
I still have some issues drawing what I want to draw out of habit, but I'm getting out of it. But another thing I'm trying to say is that these "problematic" things should not only be something survivors alone have to create! That's a terribly small niche. Not all survivors are creators. In fact, there are plenty of artists I admire who make dark things who have no indication of having "survived" some sort of trauma. And that kind of stuff inspires me. Don't take that shit away from people who need it.
Learn to use a blacklist and even then, stop letting your triggers control you (Boo Ableist Vivian) Dude, I have triggers too, but if you have a heart attack every single time, please get that shit treated. Its your responsibility to take care of your needs, the internet is not your babysitter. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that's it...If we had to censor everything that had even a sliver of something that could set someone off. WE'D HAVE NO CONTENT AT ALL.
Here I'll name some of my triggers (these are not jokes btw, the fandoms are because of some awful people). Hospitals, Box Cutters, Vomiting, Homestuck, We Bare Bears, Animal Gore,
STOP THE PRESSES: TAKE DOWN EVERYTHING THAT CONTAINS ONE OF THESE THINGS TO PROTECT VIVIAN. The world doesnt revolve around you.
Anti Argument #3 People need to stop romanticizing [Y] even in fiction because it encourages [Y] to happen in real life!
Alright, I'm getting bitter and it's starting to show, so lets take on the dumbest argument of all time, but first.
*downs 3 shots of vodka and sighs in despair*
What the fuck is romanticization.
According to Miriam Webster it is "to think about or describe something as being better or more attractive or interesting than it really is"
So...as someones who finds some passion in etymology, the use of this word infuriates me SO MUCH because of how subjective it is. Basically it describes romanticization as "making something better than what it really is."
WHO DEFINES WHAT "IS"
Take for example if I wrote something about swimming and the person enjoyed the water, the cool feel, the taste of the chlorine, the lightness of their body. What is the neutral state of water? It is something that can be deadly to humans and yet it is simaultaneously a need. Would that section be romanticizing the water because its not that great since it could drown you, would it be describing it perfectly or would be an understatement.
"Vivian Swimming and Abuse are two different things."
They are, but let me tell you something about Abuse. It fucks with your head. Everyone is different. Let's briefly talk about cutting. Many people who have done it describe it as a sick euphoric pleasure, feeling something when you were numb, or simply just a rush of endorphins.
For many people, talking about cutting in a "romantic" way is merely them describing what it is to "them"
Let's take another example thats less depressing but just as extreme. Jackass and "Prank" channels take doing dangerous feats and package them in the context of comedy and "romanticize" the risks involved because it seems SO COOL and SICK BRO (Nothing against this type of content, I'm just losing my mind as usual)
Basically, romanticization is about your own perception of it. One person might find hospitals to be a place of healing or colleges to be a fantastic vehicle of knowledge while I find both to be reprehensible and sicken me to my stomach for personal reasons because of what it "is" to me.
Basically, romanticization is a nonsense concept. But then again I guess thats why we have to have disclaimers not to jump out a fucking window to impress your friends, and warn people that hot coffee is hot.
I may seem madder than I was when I first started this, but honestly I'm just happy to have gotten this all out.
TL;DR WHATEVA, I DO WHAT I WANT.
Essentially, if you're going to hate me anyway, why should I waste my time holding back my true self to befriend people who don't like me?
Although in all honesty, just, let people be. If you want something serious about the romanticization concept, also note that rise in violent porn consumption actually had a decrease in violent sexual assaults in real life.
Thanks for reading.
This is another one of these topics that I've briefly touched upon in the past or ranted about on twitter, but it's time that I make a long post about it clearly stating how I feel about the subject.
Warning for anyone who has been through trauma, there will be mention of abuse, rape, suicide, violence and other nasty things.
Discourse and the Anti-Sentiment
For those who are fortunate enough not to know about this, I'll give a brief summary:
In all sorts of fandoms, from the furries, to the weeaboos to the video game nerds, there's been an uprising of those who hold a strong opinion against certain controversial tropes. These include mentions or allusions to rape, domestic abuse, child pornography, drug use, and other unpleasant things.
While at first thought you may be saying, "So what Vivian? I hate these things too! There's nothing wrong with that." And herein lies the rub. The issue of the matter is that these people, who refer to themselves generally as "anti's" are inherently against the mention or theme of ANY subject that even vaguely causes harm even in works of fiction.
It's easy to miss it on websites such as furaffinity, since most of us on this website are adults who understand the distinction between reality and fiction, but even then there are others who join the anti movement vehemently, such as the FurryNetwork incident a few months ago which was basically a repeat of the Inkbunny exodus.
Honestly, its a movement I've despised and as it starts to expand and gain momentum, as does my rage and discomfort. Anti's have a multitude of arguments for their cause that are short-sighted, manipulative and entitled. The difficulty is communicating to the average person exactly why this movement is such a huge problem when it comes to artistic integrity, creative freedom and the safety of others.
To give a short summary of what Anti's do in depth I'll give you a few simple formulas.
Anti: [X] is such a horrible [game/show/artist] because it contains [Y] which [harms survivors/reinforces X in real life/is illegal]
In this essay I'm going to do my best to break down anti arguments and try to explain to you why this social movement is so toxic.
Anti Argument #1 This shouldn't contain [X] because [Y] is illegal and it could get people in trouble for even looking at X
I'm gonna come out and say that this is a direct statement against those who were against the FurryNetwork stance on allowing cub porn and avoiding inkbunny. Now let's adress the elephant in the room. Child Pornography and its distribution is wrong. Point blank. Here's where I'm going to get people to hate me.
A depiction of an fictional underage character in a sexual situation is not child pornography UNLESS the depiction is that of a real child OR it is a lifelike CGI rendering according to United States Law.
"But Viv, there was that guy a long time ago that shows up on Google search who was arrested because he had so much lolicon!" If you investigation the case, you'll realize that the man also had real pictures of children as well, he would have been arrested with or without the lolicon, it's merely an extraneous detail.
Secondly, legality does not equal morality. Interracial Marriage, Alcohol, Divorce, Marijuana, Anal Sex, Oral Sex, Gay Marriage are all things that are or have been illegal in the past.
In addition, if you want to INSIST that being legal means its okay, how about looking into the fact that beastiality is currently legal in over 5 states of the U.S., raping your wife was legal until /1993/, and don't even get me started on civilians owning assault rifles.
Legality is put into place to provide order to a society, it's not your shortcut to a moral compass.
Also, you can't get in trouble for being on a website where something illegal is going on. I don't know where that rumour started, but its completely nonsense and overinflated. That statement might have validity if you had an account on Ashley Madison, which was specifically for those looking to cuck their "S/O" but the reality is that the situation is more like you're on OKCupid and theres a small section of people who want to cheat but that doesn't mean you have anything to do with it.
Anti Argument #2 [X] containing [Y] is DISGUSTING and is an insult to those who survived [Y] Addendum: Not aimed at survivors.
This is simultaneously the hardest and easiest thing to argue, and it even goes back to the first point. For example, it's pretty reasonable for CSA survivors to want to avoid content that reminds them of their trauma, however the problem lies in that people who have been through traumatic experiences cope differently.
As common as it is for someone who has been beaten to want to avoid any media that contains violence, it's just as common for someone who has been beaten to actively SEEK out media that contains violence as a cathartic experience. Of course, the needs of one survivor should never be put above another. This problem can be rectified with proper tagging (which most people do) but many Anti's actually ENTER the tags to complain about how disgusting it is or say that it should be hided away and not be talked about at all. In addition, anti's claim that the only people "allowed" to create and enjoy such things are other survivors!
So this point has been talked about pretty well on tumblr, dissected down to the nitty gritty details on how it violently mirrors the shame and abuse survivors experiences in the first place, but I wanted to hit the dead horse with my own bat as well.
As many people who have either followed my furaffinity or my old tumblrs, I'm a survivor of abuse. The thing is /I shouldn't have to out myself for permission to enjoy something./ Also, for anyone who wants "proof" that I've been through some deep dark shit in my life, feel free to look through my journals on furaffinity or check the "abuse" tag on fruk-this.tumblr that way you can see pictures, sound clips and vents dating all the way back to 2014 before this shit even started.
I've always had problems being abused and being taken advantage of and thus I've always found dark, violent and depressing content to be a way to navigate my feelings. It's a part of therapy for me.
"But Vivian, aside from Triste, you don't even draw that much "problematic stuff" "
...
Exactly.
This presence of blind hate has always pressed down on my chest, leading me to have this fear of drawing what I really wanted to create. In fact, I believe it was only 6 months ago that I finally relaxed and settled down into the femboy niche. Which believe me, I really enjoy, no if ands or buts about it! But before then I kind of pressed down my desires to make even basic porn because I didn't want to be called a zoophile, pedophile , ableist or any other shit people have up their sleeves.
I still have some issues drawing what I want to draw out of habit, but I'm getting out of it. But another thing I'm trying to say is that these "problematic" things should not only be something survivors alone have to create! That's a terribly small niche. Not all survivors are creators. In fact, there are plenty of artists I admire who make dark things who have no indication of having "survived" some sort of trauma. And that kind of stuff inspires me. Don't take that shit away from people who need it.
Learn to use a blacklist and even then, stop letting your triggers control you (Boo Ableist Vivian) Dude, I have triggers too, but if you have a heart attack every single time, please get that shit treated. Its your responsibility to take care of your needs, the internet is not your babysitter. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that's it...If we had to censor everything that had even a sliver of something that could set someone off. WE'D HAVE NO CONTENT AT ALL.
Here I'll name some of my triggers (these are not jokes btw, the fandoms are because of some awful people). Hospitals, Box Cutters, Vomiting, Homestuck, We Bare Bears, Animal Gore,
STOP THE PRESSES: TAKE DOWN EVERYTHING THAT CONTAINS ONE OF THESE THINGS TO PROTECT VIVIAN. The world doesnt revolve around you.
Anti Argument #3 People need to stop romanticizing [Y] even in fiction because it encourages [Y] to happen in real life!
Alright, I'm getting bitter and it's starting to show, so lets take on the dumbest argument of all time, but first.
*downs 3 shots of vodka and sighs in despair*
What the fuck is romanticization.
According to Miriam Webster it is "to think about or describe something as being better or more attractive or interesting than it really is"
So...as someones who finds some passion in etymology, the use of this word infuriates me SO MUCH because of how subjective it is. Basically it describes romanticization as "making something better than what it really is."
WHO DEFINES WHAT "IS"
Take for example if I wrote something about swimming and the person enjoyed the water, the cool feel, the taste of the chlorine, the lightness of their body. What is the neutral state of water? It is something that can be deadly to humans and yet it is simaultaneously a need. Would that section be romanticizing the water because its not that great since it could drown you, would it be describing it perfectly or would be an understatement.
"Vivian Swimming and Abuse are two different things."
They are, but let me tell you something about Abuse. It fucks with your head. Everyone is different. Let's briefly talk about cutting. Many people who have done it describe it as a sick euphoric pleasure, feeling something when you were numb, or simply just a rush of endorphins.
For many people, talking about cutting in a "romantic" way is merely them describing what it is to "them"
Let's take another example thats less depressing but just as extreme. Jackass and "Prank" channels take doing dangerous feats and package them in the context of comedy and "romanticize" the risks involved because it seems SO COOL and SICK BRO (Nothing against this type of content, I'm just losing my mind as usual)
Basically, romanticization is about your own perception of it. One person might find hospitals to be a place of healing or colleges to be a fantastic vehicle of knowledge while I find both to be reprehensible and sicken me to my stomach for personal reasons because of what it "is" to me.
Basically, romanticization is a nonsense concept. But then again I guess thats why we have to have disclaimers not to jump out a fucking window to impress your friends, and warn people that hot coffee is hot.
I may seem madder than I was when I first started this, but honestly I'm just happy to have gotten this all out.
TL;DR WHATEVA, I DO WHAT I WANT.
Essentially, if you're going to hate me anyway, why should I waste my time holding back my true self to befriend people who don't like me?
Although in all honesty, just, let people be. If you want something serious about the romanticization concept, also note that rise in violent porn consumption actually had a decrease in violent sexual assaults in real life.
Thanks for reading.
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Comment posting has been disabled by the submission owner.
I noticed that too. and sometimes,it's hard to tell what people even want.
of course some things in some audiences are not really theme-ready, but in ones that are, I always go "what did I just read?" when it seems as though someone has actually gone out of their way to find that content and harass the artist- they've spent more time being offended than producing "non offensive" content(whatever that may be...)
a lot of the drama in regards to FN seems to revolve around people going "hey guys! this site said that's ok, but I don't like it! it must be stopped!" which feels a bit fragile,and probably is really. especially since it's not the only place on the internet and can be tuned out just as well,haha.
I agree with your points.
also reminds me of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5YDVCAEMXE
of course some things in some audiences are not really theme-ready, but in ones that are, I always go "what did I just read?" when it seems as though someone has actually gone out of their way to find that content and harass the artist- they've spent more time being offended than producing "non offensive" content(whatever that may be...)
a lot of the drama in regards to FN seems to revolve around people going "hey guys! this site said that's ok, but I don't like it! it must be stopped!" which feels a bit fragile,and probably is really. especially since it's not the only place on the internet and can be tuned out just as well,haha.
I agree with your points.
also reminds me of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5YDVCAEMXE
Its amazing, especially since theyre so stupid they dont realize that even so much as posting hate in the tags usually results in bringing MORE of that tag to their eye based on algorithms on most websites. On top of that, theres people who have nothing to do with anything getting involved such as all the fucking minors on tumblrs running anti ddlg blogs.
Yeah, regarding FN, it stopped having a chance as soon as people started spreading rumors that it was run by the same person who ran a beastiality site. (which by the way, it was not but the resulting publicity caused that website to get shutdown to try to give furry network a better chance.
they think that using a service means aligning yourself completely with all of their beliefs. it's ridiculous. and that video was perfect. xD
Yeah, regarding FN, it stopped having a chance as soon as people started spreading rumors that it was run by the same person who ran a beastiality site. (which by the way, it was not but the resulting publicity caused that website to get shutdown to try to give furry network a better chance.
they think that using a service means aligning yourself completely with all of their beliefs. it's ridiculous. and that video was perfect. xD
it seems like there's always someone who wants to accuse furry site staff of being linked to or endorsing rl pedo or beastiality somehow- with no proof it's just not cool and hurts everyone.
tbh wouldn't mind if there was a site where the rules were more lax as long as there's more creativity and no one gets hurt. but some people want to pretend to defend and thus we can't have nice things :/
"they think that using a service means aligning yourself completely with all of their beliefs."
irl one time I tried to explain to someone that the donation preferences of the ceo of a certain company have little to no reflection of what the people at the bottom so to speak believe- for all we know he/she could be the only one who thinks that,and it's basically punishing everyone for one person's (perhaps supposed,in some cases)opinion. the person kept acting as though that meant the person waiting to take your order is going to be some jerk or something. now,it's ok to disprove of it of course, but it's another thing to outright say "everyone who works for x supports/hates y" heck,in large companies some of those people might not know or even care. and they're certainly not going to drop a job over that even if they don't necessarily agree if it doesn't affect them,if getting a job was hard to get in the first place. but they kept at it so... some people just won't be convinced, it seems as though they don't want to be assured somebody isn't out to get them o.o
haha glad you liked the videoref XD
tbh wouldn't mind if there was a site where the rules were more lax as long as there's more creativity and no one gets hurt. but some people want to pretend to defend and thus we can't have nice things :/
"they think that using a service means aligning yourself completely with all of their beliefs."
irl one time I tried to explain to someone that the donation preferences of the ceo of a certain company have little to no reflection of what the people at the bottom so to speak believe- for all we know he/she could be the only one who thinks that,and it's basically punishing everyone for one person's (perhaps supposed,in some cases)opinion. the person kept acting as though that meant the person waiting to take your order is going to be some jerk or something. now,it's ok to disprove of it of course, but it's another thing to outright say "everyone who works for x supports/hates y" heck,in large companies some of those people might not know or even care. and they're certainly not going to drop a job over that even if they don't necessarily agree if it doesn't affect them,if getting a job was hard to get in the first place. but they kept at it so... some people just won't be convinced, it seems as though they don't want to be assured somebody isn't out to get them o.o
haha glad you liked the videoref XD
I remember i used to have that militant line of thinking too. Funny story is that I was telling people not to eat at chick-fil-a cause they didn't support gay marriage and then someone told me they went to a chick-fil-a and everyone there was gay. xD At the end of the day it doesnt matter.
I like that all discussion about what is offensive or innapropriate to say or the likes. Basiclly always boils down to "As Long as humans exists, you will always be wrong and right"
Myself would probebly be targeted since i LOVE non-consensual porn. It's so facinating and arousing to me, why or how i got this preference i don't know. I just do.
However, actual Rape will easily have me voimiting, feeling horrid and other immensly negative emotions. I've meet quite a few ladies who has been subjected to this, naturally im not gona tell them in great detail of how i get my ficonal characters humped by burly forcefull men or beasts.
However nothing they say will take away my interest in the fictonal Non-consensual porn i enjoy.
"Romanticizing" Is great, beacuse alot of them often miss the point when, for example. Violence appear to be glorified and amazing. Often Artists will do just that to prove a point, as it's often very obvious that despite how reward or amazing it appears to be to murder everything, one can tell it's meant to be sort of ironic.
This was a cool read, i enjoy reading giant walls of text about Common sense, Or it's mostly just called "Sense" these days since it's not very common!
Myself would probebly be targeted since i LOVE non-consensual porn. It's so facinating and arousing to me, why or how i got this preference i don't know. I just do.
However, actual Rape will easily have me voimiting, feeling horrid and other immensly negative emotions. I've meet quite a few ladies who has been subjected to this, naturally im not gona tell them in great detail of how i get my ficonal characters humped by burly forcefull men or beasts.
However nothing they say will take away my interest in the fictonal Non-consensual porn i enjoy.
"Romanticizing" Is great, beacuse alot of them often miss the point when, for example. Violence appear to be glorified and amazing. Often Artists will do just that to prove a point, as it's often very obvious that despite how reward or amazing it appears to be to murder everything, one can tell it's meant to be sort of ironic.
This was a cool read, i enjoy reading giant walls of text about Common sense, Or it's mostly just called "Sense" these days since it's not very common!
*nod nod* In my opinion, as long as people aren't being hurt, which for the most part fiction doesnt have the capability of hurting people on its own, people should be able to do whatever.
Of course! I've always loved non-con and thankfully once I became a teen I was a little bit more careful in how I described it. (like most dumb 14 year olds I used to be like LOL RAAAAPE HAHAH). I actually found myself in positions of sexual harassment and near sexual encounters in real life before, but it has nothing to do with what I personally enjoy in fiction! Of course it is my personal ability to be able to separate my experiences with fiction, but even after those things happened to me I didnt really have an issue with the parallels.
Exactly, all that really happens is that I just keep it to myself until I meet someone else who likes it :B
I might make another seperate post about that actually, because its a big and important argument when it comes to the fiction vs reality. Violence and Death in the abstract is widely taken just at face value, but anything revolving around sexuality is up for criticism constantly.
I'm glad you liked reading, this comment means a lot <3
Of course! I've always loved non-con and thankfully once I became a teen I was a little bit more careful in how I described it. (like most dumb 14 year olds I used to be like LOL RAAAAPE HAHAH). I actually found myself in positions of sexual harassment and near sexual encounters in real life before, but it has nothing to do with what I personally enjoy in fiction! Of course it is my personal ability to be able to separate my experiences with fiction, but even after those things happened to me I didnt really have an issue with the parallels.
Exactly, all that really happens is that I just keep it to myself until I meet someone else who likes it :B
I might make another seperate post about that actually, because its a big and important argument when it comes to the fiction vs reality. Violence and Death in the abstract is widely taken just at face value, but anything revolving around sexuality is up for criticism constantly.
I'm glad you liked reading, this comment means a lot <3
I read the first section, and will probably read the entire thing.
I will say, although I am personally not a fan of cub porn, I am extremely frustrated with websites such as FurryNetwork banning it while at the same time having a rule that says you can be banned if you complain about an image you dislike, rather than just blacklisting the image's subject on your account.
It's so hypocritical.
I will say, although I am personally not a fan of cub porn, I am extremely frustrated with websites such as FurryNetwork banning it while at the same time having a rule that says you can be banned if you complain about an image you dislike, rather than just blacklisting the image's subject on your account.
It's so hypocritical.
In the last section, you did not touch on the fact that people tend to be capable of separating fiction from reality.
Rape porn romanticizes rape? Okay, if we assume that is true, does that REALLY mean people are going to start going around raping everyone because they read a lewd fanfic? Come on.
EDIT: I'm a huge fan of bloody goodness, vampires, and plenty of violence. So that's a reason this topic is personal.
EDIT: As a final note, PLEASE never let these kinds of people ever let you stop you from drawing what you want to draw. You said they will not, not anymore. But I still want to encourage artistic freedom. If people are offended, it's their own damn fault for not using a black-list or just walking/clicking away.
Rape porn romanticizes rape? Okay, if we assume that is true, does that REALLY mean people are going to start going around raping everyone because they read a lewd fanfic? Come on.
EDIT: I'm a huge fan of bloody goodness, vampires, and plenty of violence. So that's a reason this topic is personal.
EDIT: As a final note, PLEASE never let these kinds of people ever let you stop you from drawing what you want to draw. You said they will not, not anymore. But I still want to encourage artistic freedom. If people are offended, it's their own damn fault for not using a black-list or just walking/clicking away.
Yup, admittedly by the time I got to the last point I was a little tired and irritated having to deal with the nonsense of debunking everything above.
As I've said many times, if someone is tempted to do something violent or sexual after reading something about it it's likely they personally had a nature predisposed to commit such an action and its not entirely the fault of the piece. Actions people take are a result of both Nature and Nuture, which explains how serial killers can come out of well bred families who love and care and prodigies can come out of broken and abusive families.
I love gore a lot, as well as noncon, shota/loli and everything else normies hate, so its why I spent so long talking about it. I've always been an outcast within the outcasts. xD
Thank you so much! It means a lot and I've come to realize that honesty with myself is the best.
As I've said many times, if someone is tempted to do something violent or sexual after reading something about it it's likely they personally had a nature predisposed to commit such an action and its not entirely the fault of the piece. Actions people take are a result of both Nature and Nuture, which explains how serial killers can come out of well bred families who love and care and prodigies can come out of broken and abusive families.
I love gore a lot, as well as noncon, shota/loli and everything else normies hate, so its why I spent so long talking about it. I've always been an outcast within the outcasts. xD
Thank you so much! It means a lot and I've come to realize that honesty with myself is the best.
Don't worry about the length! I love comments like this because it makes me feel good that I was able to really put such an impact on people.
I didn't quite expand on this phenomenon in my second point as I wanted to, but this is indeed another section that pisses me off a lot. I am disabled, mentally ill, hispanic, queer and a survivor and often times I find the most insignificant things being attacked with such fevor while more important issues are greatly ignored. For example, a white person wearing a sombero or doing day of the dead makeup will get more hate, attention and general reach than the fact that hispanics are among the most forgotten minority and ACTUAL offenses against us are ignored. It's rare to see missing persons reports for our people, donation funds, or anything that will actually help the group, however people just love to be seen attacking something that is at best inconsequential.
In fact, whats worse is that when you disagree with this vocal majority on such topics, they love to TAKE AWAY your status!! I've had people call me white, straight, male and nuerotypical because I believed that they were getting way too nitpicky on certain subjects.
If somethings offensive enough to me personally, I can be expected to say something about it. What shouldn't happen is someone nudging me in the stomach and saying "Hey, shouldn't you be getting angry about that? WHY AREN'T YOU PISSED OFF? HOW CAN YOU CALL YOURSELF A REAL PERSON IF YOU DON'T FIND THIS WRONG. REEEEE?" Like DUDE, I don't have the extra energy and time to waste getting mad about something i cant do anything about, even less so if its just 1 person out of our billion poplation planet. I gotta find a way to eat, wanna donate to my fund- and then they walk away because HEY REAL JUSTICE like yelling at strangers needs to be served.
I'm so sensitive about these topics because in my 2 years on tumblr, I realized how hypocritical it is. Everyone likes to participate in slacktivism until theres a need for some actual energy to make real social change possible. If anything, their rage holds us back.
Part of recovering from trauma is being able to deal with triggers in a healthy manner without losing your mind. Granted, this doesnt mean that people should be triggered on purpose or things shouldn't be tagged, because exposure therapy is delicate.
But so many people have also delusioned themselves into thinking they have 40 mental disorders and are 37 oppressed races in all of their personalities and that their parent not taking them to disney world is child abuse.
LONG SIGH
I didn't quite expand on this phenomenon in my second point as I wanted to, but this is indeed another section that pisses me off a lot. I am disabled, mentally ill, hispanic, queer and a survivor and often times I find the most insignificant things being attacked with such fevor while more important issues are greatly ignored. For example, a white person wearing a sombero or doing day of the dead makeup will get more hate, attention and general reach than the fact that hispanics are among the most forgotten minority and ACTUAL offenses against us are ignored. It's rare to see missing persons reports for our people, donation funds, or anything that will actually help the group, however people just love to be seen attacking something that is at best inconsequential.
In fact, whats worse is that when you disagree with this vocal majority on such topics, they love to TAKE AWAY your status!! I've had people call me white, straight, male and nuerotypical because I believed that they were getting way too nitpicky on certain subjects.
If somethings offensive enough to me personally, I can be expected to say something about it. What shouldn't happen is someone nudging me in the stomach and saying "Hey, shouldn't you be getting angry about that? WHY AREN'T YOU PISSED OFF? HOW CAN YOU CALL YOURSELF A REAL PERSON IF YOU DON'T FIND THIS WRONG. REEEEE?" Like DUDE, I don't have the extra energy and time to waste getting mad about something i cant do anything about, even less so if its just 1 person out of our billion poplation planet. I gotta find a way to eat, wanna donate to my fund- and then they walk away because HEY REAL JUSTICE like yelling at strangers needs to be served.
I'm so sensitive about these topics because in my 2 years on tumblr, I realized how hypocritical it is. Everyone likes to participate in slacktivism until theres a need for some actual energy to make real social change possible. If anything, their rage holds us back.
Part of recovering from trauma is being able to deal with triggers in a healthy manner without losing your mind. Granted, this doesnt mean that people should be triggered on purpose or things shouldn't be tagged, because exposure therapy is delicate.
But so many people have also delusioned themselves into thinking they have 40 mental disorders and are 37 oppressed races in all of their personalities and that their parent not taking them to disney world is child abuse.
LONG SIGH
"I've had people call me white, straight, male and nuerotypical because I believed that they were getting way too nitpicky on certain subjects."
Because being any of those things completely invalidates your opinion, I guess.
They throw the pendulum waaaay in the opposite direction.
To the trauma thing, it is absolutely disgusting for multiple reasons how much people enable themselves and other people's apparent disabilities, whether they be genuine or not.
A person will NEVER learn to overcome their shortcomings if they sit in a box where they are constantly pampered to never have to confront themselves, and told they are "perfect just the way they are". If that were true, there literally would not be an issue to begin with.
I'll confess one more thing publicly:
I have several issues. And what did I do with them? I boxed them up and did the exact opposite of what these people did. I believed their lies that a white male (even if he be gay) is not worth being cared for. I myself swung the pendulum because I never wanted to be seen as their attention whores.
Needless to say, that ended up being incredibly unhealthy. I finally started talking to friends about what bothers me (but not to an extreme extend), and I think I've genuinely been getting better.
Balance, people. Balance.
Because being any of those things completely invalidates your opinion, I guess.
They throw the pendulum waaaay in the opposite direction.
To the trauma thing, it is absolutely disgusting for multiple reasons how much people enable themselves and other people's apparent disabilities, whether they be genuine or not.
A person will NEVER learn to overcome their shortcomings if they sit in a box where they are constantly pampered to never have to confront themselves, and told they are "perfect just the way they are". If that were true, there literally would not be an issue to begin with.
I'll confess one more thing publicly:
I have several issues. And what did I do with them? I boxed them up and did the exact opposite of what these people did. I believed their lies that a white male (even if he be gay) is not worth being cared for. I myself swung the pendulum because I never wanted to be seen as their attention whores.
Needless to say, that ended up being incredibly unhealthy. I finally started talking to friends about what bothers me (but not to an extreme extend), and I think I've genuinely been getting better.
Balance, people. Balance.
Exact thoughts on my mind in relation to a lot of things, really.
Failing to tell the difference between things that DO and do NOT contribute to real-world problems has historically been a terrible problem. It distracts from real problems by creating a fog of drama.
I get that some real-world experiences like rape or molestation can be very traumatic, but removing "triggering" material won't make up for what has happened or prevent it from happening again, nor was it the cause of these problems. Having bad memories brought up by material like this is something that needs treated alone, not the rest of the world.
And what gets me is all these "internet crusaders" who are convinced their whining will actually change something. No way most of them actually even have a bad experience with the subject matter as an excuse, given how numerous they can be. They just feel like finding something to get enraged at and others join the lynch mob, I guess.
Unfortunate that wild mob mentality usually spreads faster and harder than well-thought out pieces like this, a tendency I would attribute to much earlier times that hasn't quite died out yet (e.g., BURN THE WITCH!, vs. a decent explanation for something unusual).
Failing to tell the difference between things that DO and do NOT contribute to real-world problems has historically been a terrible problem. It distracts from real problems by creating a fog of drama.
I get that some real-world experiences like rape or molestation can be very traumatic, but removing "triggering" material won't make up for what has happened or prevent it from happening again, nor was it the cause of these problems. Having bad memories brought up by material like this is something that needs treated alone, not the rest of the world.
And what gets me is all these "internet crusaders" who are convinced their whining will actually change something. No way most of them actually even have a bad experience with the subject matter as an excuse, given how numerous they can be. They just feel like finding something to get enraged at and others join the lynch mob, I guess.
Unfortunate that wild mob mentality usually spreads faster and harder than well-thought out pieces like this, a tendency I would attribute to much earlier times that hasn't quite died out yet (e.g., BURN THE WITCH!, vs. a decent explanation for something unusual).
Sorry I deleted the last comment as the edit window closed D :
Thank you for actually pointing out the cathartic nature of fantasy. Fantasy is at its core about being able to explore things you would or even should not do in real life, whether its swinging a sword into someone's face or having unprotected sex with space amazons. I really get irked at people who can't seem to understand the point, that stories and art are supposed to evoke reactions and provide a pressure release to the daily inhibitions, repressions and oppressions of everyday life, as well as provide a way for people to deal with the deeper issues in their life by exploring them in their own safe creations. Sexualization as a coping device is an accepted fact of psychology, in my experience people who write or create art of dark things tend to be victims of past abuse; by protraying it in fantasy they are able to reshape it into something positive rather than negative. But in doing so you also dstinguish that you do understand fantasy from reality, and that's been pretty central to most dark fetish communities I've seen. The only reason you have this sort of anti thing is that it's an easy target for people with some sort of their own control issue to exploit and wield actual power in real life, and that's what is the worst about it, because these people come in and destroy the spirit of 'this is all imaginary and we are free to go as far as we want,' and the cathartic power of being able to shape your own fears and fragilities into a virtual realm. The chilling effect just leads to more repression, removing that pressure release and in a sick way continuing the cycle of abuse, creation of victims and their expressions, to provide more 'ammo' for the puritans.
They are the ones who can't separate fantasy from reality, and that's a lot scarier than anything I could write. I continuously wonder how these people deal with the constant violence in TV, or with horror movies, or steven king, or a lot of literatue in general.
Plus it often turns out that the people who complain the loudest are the ones hiding something, further suggesting they are the ones with the real problem.
Thank you for actually pointing out the cathartic nature of fantasy. Fantasy is at its core about being able to explore things you would or even should not do in real life, whether its swinging a sword into someone's face or having unprotected sex with space amazons. I really get irked at people who can't seem to understand the point, that stories and art are supposed to evoke reactions and provide a pressure release to the daily inhibitions, repressions and oppressions of everyday life, as well as provide a way for people to deal with the deeper issues in their life by exploring them in their own safe creations. Sexualization as a coping device is an accepted fact of psychology, in my experience people who write or create art of dark things tend to be victims of past abuse; by protraying it in fantasy they are able to reshape it into something positive rather than negative. But in doing so you also dstinguish that you do understand fantasy from reality, and that's been pretty central to most dark fetish communities I've seen. The only reason you have this sort of anti thing is that it's an easy target for people with some sort of their own control issue to exploit and wield actual power in real life, and that's what is the worst about it, because these people come in and destroy the spirit of 'this is all imaginary and we are free to go as far as we want,' and the cathartic power of being able to shape your own fears and fragilities into a virtual realm. The chilling effect just leads to more repression, removing that pressure release and in a sick way continuing the cycle of abuse, creation of victims and their expressions, to provide more 'ammo' for the puritans.
They are the ones who can't separate fantasy from reality, and that's a lot scarier than anything I could write. I continuously wonder how these people deal with the constant violence in TV, or with horror movies, or steven king, or a lot of literatue in general.
Plus it often turns out that the people who complain the loudest are the ones hiding something, further suggesting they are the ones with the real problem.
The problem I think is that a lot of the 'antis' don't trust people to rationalise between fantasy and reality. They think that is something that should be taken away through legislation, the often touted 'your rights end where my feelings begin' mentality. This is something that personally gets my back up. It is essentially the 'anti' projecting their own insecurities and infantalisim onto others, or kicking up a stink about it to attract attention to themselves, and lobbying the state to make laws that satiate their jerking knees or need to virtue signal to likeminded peers. Laws that penalise the overwhelmingly vast majority of those who are into this stuff, and are utterly harmless.
The thing that they never seem to get their heads around is that if someone can't see a boundery between fantasy and reality they're going to be hazardous to others regardless of what they choose to get their rocks off to. In that regard it isn't so much the crime they choose to by dragged to prison for committing, but the underlying sociopathy that causes them to see it as acceptable. Or to put it another way, since non-consensual content has been brought up- according to a study by Lisak and Miller on sexual assault in college campuses, 90-95% of offenses are committed by a tiny number of serial offenders. Yet non-consensual acts in various forms frequently enter the top 5 list of fantasies in both women and men. Lots and lots of people reguarly get their jollies from ravishment fantasies, but the percentage that actually take it to reality is miniscule and responsible for almost all instances.
Ironically it is exactly the same mentality as people who advocate the banning of violent games under the unproven assumption that they encourage violent behaviour. The evidence says otherwise, but it makes a nice talking point for those who want to beat their chest or make a political stand because it 'feels' right.
The thing that they never seem to get their heads around is that if someone can't see a boundery between fantasy and reality they're going to be hazardous to others regardless of what they choose to get their rocks off to. In that regard it isn't so much the crime they choose to by dragged to prison for committing, but the underlying sociopathy that causes them to see it as acceptable. Or to put it another way, since non-consensual content has been brought up- according to a study by Lisak and Miller on sexual assault in college campuses, 90-95% of offenses are committed by a tiny number of serial offenders. Yet non-consensual acts in various forms frequently enter the top 5 list of fantasies in both women and men. Lots and lots of people reguarly get their jollies from ravishment fantasies, but the percentage that actually take it to reality is miniscule and responsible for almost all instances.
Ironically it is exactly the same mentality as people who advocate the banning of violent games under the unproven assumption that they encourage violent behaviour. The evidence says otherwise, but it makes a nice talking point for those who want to beat their chest or make a political stand because it 'feels' right.
Cub porn is illegal actualy though becuase it is child pornography. And those who have a fetish for that has a fetish and love for pedophilia and that is just wrong on many levels for a very good reason. Likeing cub porn =likeing pedophilia and pedophilia is the most sensitive this ever and supporting artworks like that is just horrible.
yeah me and other actual victims of child sexual abuse have to disagree with you there because child pornography has to do with the actual abuse of real children, not drawn pictures. To compare cub stuff with what csa victims go through is actually misguided moral outrage that should be energy used instead to give money towards places like RAINN that help actual victims :)
lol
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/.....sexual-assault
Kutchinsky, B. “Pornography and Rape: Theory and Practice? Evidence from Crime Data in Four Countries Where Pornography Is Easily Available.” International Journal of Law and Psychiatry., U.S. National Library of Medicine, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2032762. Accessed 15 July 2017.
" If (violent) pornography causes rape, this exceptional development in the availability of (violent) pornography should definitely somehow influence the rape statistics. Since, however, the rape figures could not simply be expected to remain steady during the period in question (when it is well known that most other crimes increased considerably), the development of rape rates was compared with that of non-sexual violent offences and nonviolent sexual offences (in so far as available statistics permitted). The results showed that in none of the countries did rape increase more than nonsexual violent crimes. This finding in itself would seem sufficient to discard the hypothesis that pornography causes rape."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/.....sexual-assault
Kutchinsky, B. “Pornography and Rape: Theory and Practice? Evidence from Crime Data in Four Countries Where Pornography Is Easily Available.” International Journal of Law and Psychiatry., U.S. National Library of Medicine, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2032762. Accessed 15 July 2017.
" If (violent) pornography causes rape, this exceptional development in the availability of (violent) pornography should definitely somehow influence the rape statistics. Since, however, the rape figures could not simply be expected to remain steady during the period in question (when it is well known that most other crimes increased considerably), the development of rape rates was compared with that of non-sexual violent offences and nonviolent sexual offences (in so far as available statistics permitted). The results showed that in none of the countries did rape increase more than nonsexual violent crimes. This finding in itself would seem sufficient to discard the hypothesis that pornography causes rape."
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