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Richard and Melody, at one of their world's protests for shifter's rights. There are problems with dehumanizing people in our world, in theirs it can be much more apparent when you literally just got turned into something non-human.
that being said, they may change on the outside, but that does not change the fact that they are the same PEOPLE as when they are not transformed. and their rights as people should not be compromised.
your hippy host, Shiro, preaching peace, tolerance and love!
done for
arrowquivershaft:
that being said, they may change on the outside, but that does not change the fact that they are the same PEOPLE as when they are not transformed. and their rights as people should not be compromised.
your hippy host, Shiro, preaching peace, tolerance and love!
done for
arrowquivershaft:
Category All / Transformation
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 1280 x 1011px
File Size 201.6 kB
Listed in Folders
It is not what trump will do it is what the un-American left will do they will use the discrimination by the lowest common denominator just to enhance there political power and try to remove the admendments that they find distanfull or regulate it say regulate the first amendment so there views are the only ones that are accepted, remove the second admendment due to there fear of the concerative majority (more center right to be precise) being allowed to carry firearms at all. the list goes on and on. trump would just bypass this and focous on getting the nation back on track and make America great again.
one can say that man. but when you dealing with the left who does discrimination by the lowest denomination for the vote for there own political power then leave nothing to chance with those guys. the left are all of the isims and the charges they accuse conceratives and those like you and me who think with common sense at all.
though the main question is how long will it take till that point is reached that they are seen as equals.
though the main question is how long will it take till that point is reached that they are seen as equals.
I actually wrote an entire 80k+ word novel on pretty much this idea when I was about 16. But it's written pretty bad and needs re-writing. People with a dormant ability to turn into animals and suddenly everyone with the ability is turning into animals uncontrollably and a government force are seeing them as a threat to humanity and purging them etc.
Really wish I had the drive to go back and rewrite it or even make it a graphic novel but, eehhhhh :/
Really wish I had the drive to go back and rewrite it or even make it a graphic novel but, eehhhhh :/
Well technically I did start it a while back but lost drive there :/
http://img14.deviantart.net/6636/i/.....lf-d836c6j.png
http://img14.deviantart.net/6636/i/.....lf-d836c6j.png
I always wondered about the social and political problems that would come about from this.
Most of it was if animals were suddenly given human speech en-masse, but similar concept.
Would they be then regarded as people? Would the animal have to get a job? Would it pay taxes? What kind of groups would rise up to lash out/protect them?
Most of it was if animals were suddenly given human speech en-masse, but similar concept.
Would they be then regarded as people? Would the animal have to get a job? Would it pay taxes? What kind of groups would rise up to lash out/protect them?
In mine the animal TF people had powers as well so they were seen as an immediate danger and rounded up to be executed or used for testing to harvest their power for use in weapons against the animal TF people. The animal TF people also had a floating city (Yeah I forgot to say my story is sci-fi) which was a lot like hogwarts where they learnt how to use their powers before putting together their own clans and guilds to go save more people.
Some time ago, I participated in a forum RP thread called "What the...?" It was basically what if you were part of the 5% of the world's population that changed into some version of your fursona or furry OC.
Some focused on the personal aspects of their situation, and eventually were dealing with a secret military mission in Australia that was confronting internment camps and a group of criminals kidnapping the changed to use as prey in canned hunts. I went more for the social and political issues, first with getting a legal decision about continuity of identity, then testifying against quarantine and rights restrictions at a Senate hearing, appearing on a couple of popular talk shows, and discussing new business opportunities and how nations and cultures around the world were reacting.
Some focused on the personal aspects of their situation, and eventually were dealing with a secret military mission in Australia that was confronting internment camps and a group of criminals kidnapping the changed to use as prey in canned hunts. I went more for the social and political issues, first with getting a legal decision about continuity of identity, then testifying against quarantine and rights restrictions at a Senate hearing, appearing on a couple of popular talk shows, and discussing new business opportunities and how nations and cultures around the world were reacting.
hmm.... well people are free to expressing their mind.... I dunno probably it is safe to not make more violance ....
hatred only giving birth more hatred, leave the leaders to decide where it will go.
there is no nation if the leader failed to protect it's people right?
hatred only giving birth more hatred, leave the leaders to decide where it will go.
there is no nation if the leader failed to protect it's people right?
that was fast man. but others on here made in light form the same thing. and I'll stop though with pictures like this on here generally one would naturally resort to real life matters. sad truth there. though you may have to put that matter in the description next time just for references on personal opinion other wise enjoy the art.
your lucky that there was only one person on this matter he took down. :/ but it will not prevent others from getting there political cheapshoots in. he should do the same to them as well other wise my personal honor and what not got insulted with this. not to mention I saw over on DA someone getting reported in to the FBI by a snowflake. check my journal on there. I called out the drama as it is.
Let's face it: this situation is a disaster no matter which side the government takes.
You probably don't see the problem, but I think I do. Claws, fangs, talons — these are the traits of a large portion of shifters. Let's not forget they're also weapons. Deadly, effective weapons. What's even more terrifying, they are always ready to be used.
You're in the crowd. This fact won't save you if that one anthropomorphic wolf will go nuts and rush to you at full speed aiming at your throat. Nobody is going to save or protect you, even if they have guns: there won't be time to unholster the gun and shoot it. The night will become much more dangerous than it was before and, I guess, government will have to declare martial law for some regions during full moon.
«We are peaceful shifters, Tie. What are you worrying about?». You probably are, as well as your friends and a huge lot of other shifters. But if even 1% of you will be composed of human-hating souls that use their abilities to hunt down innocent people and terrorize entire cities, then you all will have bad reputation and everybody will be afraid of you.
A clear conflict occurs: we, humans, versus you, shifters. We won't view you as terrible monsters if you will prove your wish for peaceful coexistence, that should be solid even if we will force restrictions on you. Are you ready to sacrifice some of your freedoms to be accepted by the majority, which is humans?
Even then, you're a mystery. Why do you shift? How sane are you after the shift? You, of course, may stay the same person on the inside, but how do we know that your personality won't get subjugated by wild nature of your Shifter form? I possess an ability to empathize other humans, but how do I know that your shift doesn't strip this ability from you? How do I know that this owl in the crowd doesn't look at me as it would look on its prey? After all, I am scared by presence of this creature, I know that it might attack and I might not survive, as well as people around me, so if I was told to kill it, I would kill this owl without a second thought.
And that's only social aspect. There would be a total mess in the government. Let's get back to the very first statement: this situation is a disaster no matter which side the government takes. We have two options: either listen to the majority and force resptrictions on shifters or grant shifters with equal rights with humans.
In the first scenario a lot of shifters might get angered by this decision. You definetly don't want to handle a guerrilla warfare where you're opposed by anthropomirphic animals, do you? But if you will listen to the shifters, then it won't be long before humans will start to protest. And protest will be the least harmful thing humans will do. I can see militia organizations forming to take down shifters and ensure human safety through radically violent means.
We end up with Civil War in both cases. The choice is tough, but I believe that the government would choose to protect its own civilians than trust some kind of paranormal creatures that haven't even been studied yet.
What is certain, study of shifters is necessary. The only way to resolve conflict peacefully that I see is to prevent shifting from happening at all. A lot of time and money may get spent on the research, but goal is noble — to help people reintegrate into community they've been torn apart from by some sick trick of fate. And if there will be those who want to keep their ability to shift, you can just detain and forcefully restrain them from shifting.
In the end you, shifters, might not necessarily be beasts or monsters, as demonstrators of your kind state. However, we are not going to belive you until you have solid scientific proof and answers on the questions I've asked earlier. And even then there will be people who do not accept shifters or anything like them and just want to see all kinds of anthropomorphic animals that simulate human forms to get tortured, electrocuted and burned to the ashes.
The moral? Transfer few trillion dollars you spend on defense for research of the shifters and you may avoid US Civil War of the XXI century.
I'm sorry if grammatical mistakes make it hard to read my reply.
You probably don't see the problem, but I think I do. Claws, fangs, talons — these are the traits of a large portion of shifters. Let's not forget they're also weapons. Deadly, effective weapons. What's even more terrifying, they are always ready to be used.
You're in the crowd. This fact won't save you if that one anthropomorphic wolf will go nuts and rush to you at full speed aiming at your throat. Nobody is going to save or protect you, even if they have guns: there won't be time to unholster the gun and shoot it. The night will become much more dangerous than it was before and, I guess, government will have to declare martial law for some regions during full moon.
«We are peaceful shifters, Tie. What are you worrying about?». You probably are, as well as your friends and a huge lot of other shifters. But if even 1% of you will be composed of human-hating souls that use their abilities to hunt down innocent people and terrorize entire cities, then you all will have bad reputation and everybody will be afraid of you.
A clear conflict occurs: we, humans, versus you, shifters. We won't view you as terrible monsters if you will prove your wish for peaceful coexistence, that should be solid even if we will force restrictions on you. Are you ready to sacrifice some of your freedoms to be accepted by the majority, which is humans?
Even then, you're a mystery. Why do you shift? How sane are you after the shift? You, of course, may stay the same person on the inside, but how do we know that your personality won't get subjugated by wild nature of your Shifter form? I possess an ability to empathize other humans, but how do I know that your shift doesn't strip this ability from you? How do I know that this owl in the crowd doesn't look at me as it would look on its prey? After all, I am scared by presence of this creature, I know that it might attack and I might not survive, as well as people around me, so if I was told to kill it, I would kill this owl without a second thought.
And that's only social aspect. There would be a total mess in the government. Let's get back to the very first statement: this situation is a disaster no matter which side the government takes. We have two options: either listen to the majority and force resptrictions on shifters or grant shifters with equal rights with humans.
In the first scenario a lot of shifters might get angered by this decision. You definetly don't want to handle a guerrilla warfare where you're opposed by anthropomirphic animals, do you? But if you will listen to the shifters, then it won't be long before humans will start to protest. And protest will be the least harmful thing humans will do. I can see militia organizations forming to take down shifters and ensure human safety through radically violent means.
We end up with Civil War in both cases. The choice is tough, but I believe that the government would choose to protect its own civilians than trust some kind of paranormal creatures that haven't even been studied yet.
What is certain, study of shifters is necessary. The only way to resolve conflict peacefully that I see is to prevent shifting from happening at all. A lot of time and money may get spent on the research, but goal is noble — to help people reintegrate into community they've been torn apart from by some sick trick of fate. And if there will be those who want to keep their ability to shift, you can just detain and forcefully restrain them from shifting.
In the end you, shifters, might not necessarily be beasts or monsters, as demonstrators of your kind state. However, we are not going to belive you until you have solid scientific proof and answers on the questions I've asked earlier. And even then there will be people who do not accept shifters or anything like them and just want to see all kinds of anthropomorphic animals that simulate human forms to get tortured, electrocuted and burned to the ashes.
The moral? Transfer few trillion dollars you spend on defense for research of the shifters and you may avoid US Civil War of the XXI century.
I'm sorry if grammatical mistakes make it hard to read my reply.
“I certainly agree the situation is complicated, but I don’t think it necessarily has to be the disaster you have described. While we are different, certainly, and fear of the unknown is natural, that’s not an excuse to use us as the latest scapegoat.
First, while a number of us do have claws, fangs, or talons, and they certainly are weapons, to argue we have to be feared because we COULD become violent does not make the fear rational, or justified. In fact, this idea is known as “Demonizing the other” and is used by politicians and power brokers to make two groups fight each other and ignore the true threat to both of them. For that matter, these weapons are no more deadly than a knife or other bladed weapon, which as a general rule are unrestricted in carry and possession. As a further point of fact, I am a United States citizen, and as such, I am protected by the Second Amendment, the right to keep and bear arms. While they are certainly unorthodox weapons, they should still be protected, as evidenced by the expansion of said amendment past the original envisioning of single-shot black powder firearms.
Beyond this, arguing that one person might misuse a weapon they have does not make the weapon bad, as frequently argued regarding gun control laws. “Guns don’t kill people” is the slogan, I believe.
I’m unsure why the night would become any more dangerous than it was before. You may, perhaps, be mistaking us for werewolves of lore, which we most decidedly are NOT. We are not infected, or otherwise cursed with anything. None of us can “terrorize entire cities”. We are flesh and blood and are not the regenerating monsters seen in the movies that are invincible to all but heavy weaponry.
The conflict you see will only be hastened by demanding we give up our own rights. Here, I fall back on the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which states in part “nor [shall anyone] be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” If you demand we subject to the will of the majority, IE humans, you are both depriving us of our rights without due process, and you are also exercising a tyranny of the majority, which is something that was explicitly NOT the goal in the creation of the country, which is part of why the US is not a direct democracy, and why there are enumerated rights for all citizens.
We certainly are a mystery, and even we don’t have a lot of the answers. I certainly like your proposal to do more research on us, because a lot of us would like answers to these questions as well. This is the only way to get definitive answers.
If you are a military member, you have an obligation to follow all LAWFUL orders given by superior officers (UCMJ, Articles 90-92). This does not allow you to follow unlawful orders without consequences, and the defense of “I was only following orders” has not stood up well in modern courts of law. Additionally, threatening the life of someone who is exercising their First Amendment rights to peaceful assembly is, if not illegal, certainly a poor way to engender understanding and cooperation.
As for granting us equal rights, I bring up the Fourteenth Amendment, which states that all US citizens are entitled to equal protection under the law. As such, whether we are shifters is irrelevant, unless you wish to define us as non-person entities, a move which again, has bad historical precedent. The majority may indeed be rankled by this, but that does not change what the right course of action is.
Arguing that humans will lash out against us if we are treated equally is an argument from consequences, which is logically invalid. Additionally, if people are committing crimes against us, it is the job of the government to protect its citizens from unlawful acts, aggression and otherwise. There is not a choice to be made by the government here, as we ARE civilians of the same government. And arguing for the total extinction of shifters strikes of the early 90s eugenics and “unfit to reproduce” laws.
Finally, it’s a minor point compared to above, but the United States federal budget was between 3.5 and 4 trillion dollars in 2015. There are not “Trillions” being spent on defense.
I certainly hope I’ve given you something to think about, and that we can, in time, come to a better understanding of each other on our way to peaceful co-existence."
First, while a number of us do have claws, fangs, or talons, and they certainly are weapons, to argue we have to be feared because we COULD become violent does not make the fear rational, or justified. In fact, this idea is known as “Demonizing the other” and is used by politicians and power brokers to make two groups fight each other and ignore the true threat to both of them. For that matter, these weapons are no more deadly than a knife or other bladed weapon, which as a general rule are unrestricted in carry and possession. As a further point of fact, I am a United States citizen, and as such, I am protected by the Second Amendment, the right to keep and bear arms. While they are certainly unorthodox weapons, they should still be protected, as evidenced by the expansion of said amendment past the original envisioning of single-shot black powder firearms.
Beyond this, arguing that one person might misuse a weapon they have does not make the weapon bad, as frequently argued regarding gun control laws. “Guns don’t kill people” is the slogan, I believe.
I’m unsure why the night would become any more dangerous than it was before. You may, perhaps, be mistaking us for werewolves of lore, which we most decidedly are NOT. We are not infected, or otherwise cursed with anything. None of us can “terrorize entire cities”. We are flesh and blood and are not the regenerating monsters seen in the movies that are invincible to all but heavy weaponry.
The conflict you see will only be hastened by demanding we give up our own rights. Here, I fall back on the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which states in part “nor [shall anyone] be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” If you demand we subject to the will of the majority, IE humans, you are both depriving us of our rights without due process, and you are also exercising a tyranny of the majority, which is something that was explicitly NOT the goal in the creation of the country, which is part of why the US is not a direct democracy, and why there are enumerated rights for all citizens.
We certainly are a mystery, and even we don’t have a lot of the answers. I certainly like your proposal to do more research on us, because a lot of us would like answers to these questions as well. This is the only way to get definitive answers.
If you are a military member, you have an obligation to follow all LAWFUL orders given by superior officers (UCMJ, Articles 90-92). This does not allow you to follow unlawful orders without consequences, and the defense of “I was only following orders” has not stood up well in modern courts of law. Additionally, threatening the life of someone who is exercising their First Amendment rights to peaceful assembly is, if not illegal, certainly a poor way to engender understanding and cooperation.
As for granting us equal rights, I bring up the Fourteenth Amendment, which states that all US citizens are entitled to equal protection under the law. As such, whether we are shifters is irrelevant, unless you wish to define us as non-person entities, a move which again, has bad historical precedent. The majority may indeed be rankled by this, but that does not change what the right course of action is.
Arguing that humans will lash out against us if we are treated equally is an argument from consequences, which is logically invalid. Additionally, if people are committing crimes against us, it is the job of the government to protect its citizens from unlawful acts, aggression and otherwise. There is not a choice to be made by the government here, as we ARE civilians of the same government. And arguing for the total extinction of shifters strikes of the early 90s eugenics and “unfit to reproduce” laws.
Finally, it’s a minor point compared to above, but the United States federal budget was between 3.5 and 4 trillion dollars in 2015. There are not “Trillions” being spent on defense.
I certainly hope I’ve given you something to think about, and that we can, in time, come to a better understanding of each other on our way to peaceful co-existence."
-Melody Shebesta 
The poster also assumes having talons on a human frame will be dangerous. You've still got human legs. Would a hoof kick hurt worse than a kick from steel-toed boots? Would claws hurt more on a human wrist than a simple brutal beating to death with a crowbar?
Anthro characters are not necessarily more powerful, faster, or better than a human being at anything. A bite from a human would hurt as much as a bite from a human with sharp teeth.
Anthro characters are not necessarily more powerful, faster, or better than a human being at anything. A bite from a human would hurt as much as a bite from a human with sharp teeth.
I agree that said human frame is pretty dangerous on its own. A human bite might be pretty infectious and is sure no less dangerous than a bite from, let's say, a dog.
However, the perception of anthro characters is the point I'm trying to make and I'm sorry if it wasn't clear in my previous post. Once again, shifters are a mystery. Nobody knows how or why they've appeared and nobody knows what's going in minds of these pseudohuman creatures. We can't be sure that they think the same way we do, we can't be sure that they won't get taken over and thrown into depths of their mind by the wild part of them, we can't be sure that they don't plan some conspiracy against mankind. Personally, I think that 'wildtouched revolt' might happen the same way as the nuclear reaction in bombs goes: once the critical mass has been reached, it goes boom. The same might happen to our shifters: once there are enough of them in the world, they all suddenly go crazy and spread disorder and havoc all across the globe. This is a very, very rough assumption and I don't state that it is in any way true.
Back to the topic of the perception. Most of us are humans. There are some suspicious individuals, but in general we trust each other. This is, I believe, one of the true purposes of the government: to ensure that citizens keep order, trust each other and are not afraid of someone killing them in the middle of a day. In case with shifters, the government fails to carry out this mission.
"No matter how much you feed the wolf, it still looks at the forest". If there would be any shifters that turn into anthropomorphic wolves, cats, dogs, owls or any other predators, I would keep that folk wisdom in mind.
I'm not necessarily against shifters. I understand that they are people too, that they are sapient and live lives the same way, I hope, as we do. However, biological and psychological barriers are something that is hard to break through. I guess it would be common thing to percieve wildtouched as danger. Since they are similar to humans, can interbreed with them but, in actuality, are a completely different species with ability to turn into animal forms, they are a considerable and apparant threat to human dominance in the world and we, humans, understand that. Also, if I would confronted by a human, there would be a thin, thin string of hope that negotiation is possible. There is no such hope if it would be a shifter in its animal form.
As you see, our fear of the Wildtouched is primal. Primal fears are hard to control and supress, but supression of them is possible. What I ask the Wildtouched to do is to provide some evidence that will help me to calm myself, something to balance the scale cups. I ask them that becouse now I, a regular human, have a lot of reasons to be afraid of the wildtouched but none to calm myself down and see that shifters aren't that dangerous,
However, the perception of anthro characters is the point I'm trying to make and I'm sorry if it wasn't clear in my previous post. Once again, shifters are a mystery. Nobody knows how or why they've appeared and nobody knows what's going in minds of these pseudohuman creatures. We can't be sure that they think the same way we do, we can't be sure that they won't get taken over and thrown into depths of their mind by the wild part of them, we can't be sure that they don't plan some conspiracy against mankind. Personally, I think that 'wildtouched revolt' might happen the same way as the nuclear reaction in bombs goes: once the critical mass has been reached, it goes boom. The same might happen to our shifters: once there are enough of them in the world, they all suddenly go crazy and spread disorder and havoc all across the globe. This is a very, very rough assumption and I don't state that it is in any way true.
Back to the topic of the perception. Most of us are humans. There are some suspicious individuals, but in general we trust each other. This is, I believe, one of the true purposes of the government: to ensure that citizens keep order, trust each other and are not afraid of someone killing them in the middle of a day. In case with shifters, the government fails to carry out this mission.
"No matter how much you feed the wolf, it still looks at the forest". If there would be any shifters that turn into anthropomorphic wolves, cats, dogs, owls or any other predators, I would keep that folk wisdom in mind.
I'm not necessarily against shifters. I understand that they are people too, that they are sapient and live lives the same way, I hope, as we do. However, biological and psychological barriers are something that is hard to break through. I guess it would be common thing to percieve wildtouched as danger. Since they are similar to humans, can interbreed with them but, in actuality, are a completely different species with ability to turn into animal forms, they are a considerable and apparant threat to human dominance in the world and we, humans, understand that. Also, if I would confronted by a human, there would be a thin, thin string of hope that negotiation is possible. There is no such hope if it would be a shifter in its animal form.
As you see, our fear of the Wildtouched is primal. Primal fears are hard to control and supress, but supression of them is possible. What I ask the Wildtouched to do is to provide some evidence that will help me to calm myself, something to balance the scale cups. I ask them that becouse now I, a regular human, have a lot of reasons to be afraid of the wildtouched but none to calm myself down and see that shifters aren't that dangerous,
Well-thought out posts from both of you. (By the way, Arrow, who is this Melody person?) If I had to add my two cents (as opposed to both of yours' five dollars), I would say that shifters should be granted the same rights as everyone else. Would this rankle the humans? Yes. Then again, there would be some of those who would be jealous of the shifters and looking for ways to become one. After all, who hasn't dreamed of flying through the sky like a bird, or swimming as freely as a fish? Why do humans wish for such things? (I'm paraphrasing the opening page of the manga +Anima, but the point still stands.) Indeed, if shifters existed, many politicians would want to make them their friends, and scientific research may go into creating more for "cosmetic" purposes, as humans would likely be upset by shifters' rights, again, out of envy, just as many fear and hunt wolves because they see themselves in them. (This latter statement is quite clear with the number of wolf furries in the fandom.) A responsible citizen would know not to unduly provoke a shifter into attacking, just as they would not use a gun without a legitimate reason, such as shooting back at the shooter. (And no matter how many restrictions you place, the bad guys will still get the guns, while the restrictions will prevent the good guys from being able to shoot back. But that's beside the point.) In the end, it's up to the individual whether they will treat their next-door shifter like a human or an animal, despite each having equal rights.
The biggest red flag in your post is, "...so if I was told to kill it, I would kill this owl without a second thought." Said owl is clearly not only sentient, but sapient as well. It is not a being to be killed with impunity any more than a human is, or yourself.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." That wasn't something that was said about our country, it was the main reason we broke off and made our own country. So we could create a place that upheld that belief. So there would be a place where people were not hunted and killed based on their race, their religion, or other factors. They used the word "man", but they meant it in the inclusive sense. Human beings, mankind. If non-human sapients existed at the time, they would have been included too. So whether you try to classify shifters as non-human or not, you are actively seeking to deny them the most basic of rights, am act which goes directly against not just the founding principles of this country, but against the most basic tenets of nearly every religion on the planet.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." That wasn't something that was said about our country, it was the main reason we broke off and made our own country. So we could create a place that upheld that belief. So there would be a place where people were not hunted and killed based on their race, their religion, or other factors. They used the word "man", but they meant it in the inclusive sense. Human beings, mankind. If non-human sapients existed at the time, they would have been included too. So whether you try to classify shifters as non-human or not, you are actively seeking to deny them the most basic of rights, am act which goes directly against not just the founding principles of this country, but against the most basic tenets of nearly every religion on the planet.
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