5.45x39mm, settling the 5.56x45mm vs 7.62x39 debate since 1974.

Reasonable comparison videos inside

Also, I love the ideas of underslung shotguns, and this seems like one very intelligent way to go about it, despite my belief that rail attachments are better. Weight is a consideration, though. 30-round mags + 7?-shell shotgun mags could get awfully hefty on your vest. Personally, I would bulk up to 20mm for the shotgun, so you can switch in fragmentation or burst rounds if the situation calls for it. More weight-per-round and less rounds-per-mag, but I think the tactical benefit would make it worthwhile, tolerable weight withstanding.

Ah, well i got the idea from a movie called 'Starship Troopers' the ground forces had a 2 in 1 gun called the 'Morita.' It was a very nice gun.

As for the shell choice for the shotgun i really don't know what's the best choice anymore. I always thought 12 guage was the better but i never really thought to clarify if it was. Less rounds for the shotgun half of it would be ok, it IS just a secondary weapon but if someone does manage to get close why waste a burst of assault rifle bullets when a single shot from your shotty can cure you of the up close and personal baddie.

I do agree it'd be combersome to carry spare mags for an already heavy weighted weapon, but i don't think alot of things through, I'm too use to seeing over sized weapons in games, comics, movies, etc so it kinda affects my judgement a bit. Using the 'combo gun' would be a work out in itself. All that you have explained will be taken to heart. I'll be sure to edit the rifle and shotguns ammunitions.

I don't remember the Morita... but I was never a huge fan of the movie. I watched the 3D animated series.

12-gauge is definitely preferable as a standard shotgun round. The 20mm shell (which is only in development and may have been scrapped, I haven't been keeping up on the project) was an idea to make a smaller version of what the M203 fired for a two-in-one gun codenamed the OICW. The idea behind that gun was to create an assault rifle that had a computer-controlled "burst device" (read: grenade) launcher built-in. The idea was to incorporate a range finder so you could point it at a piece of cover, aim it above the cover and fire. The round would burst a few feet past, allowing a soldier to clear out well-protected enemies without needing a surface to impact on. There was talk of also fielding the 20mm in other munitions, such as pellet loads (like a shotgun) and flare rounds.

That project lost popularity, though, as the gun design ended up being way too massive to be effective. I have no clue if whoever was working on it still is or not.

As for deciding on caliber, don't take my 5.45mm suggestion as a "it's best" comment, despite the way I said it. I just feel from all I've read and studied about the rounds that the 5.45 has the best overall performance, while the 5.56 and 7.62x39 do still have their functions - the former has greater lethality at close ranges, the latter has greater penetration. The 5.45 is just a great compromise, in my opinion.

I'm just a thought provoker ^.^

Ah, well i never watched the animated series though i think i recall it during my elementary school days ( is 19 ) but i liked the 1st movie better than i did the second one. I never saw the new 'Maruader' it supposedly brought back Rico.

http://www.starshiptroopers.net/PRO.....STUNT%20Morita

^ This is the morita. It was the main weapon of all the characters (well not all of them just the Mobile Infantry, the fleet officers had Carbine versions.) It was made of a Ruger Mini 14's and an Ithaca (pump) shotgun.

THe only reason i ever really thought 7.62 is because a friend in the National guard showed me a 7.62 bullet he 'found' laying around and brought home. It had an iron tip in the slug for penetration. That's why I've always figured it to be the better round choice.

Oh, are you referring to the NATO 7.62 or one of the Russian 7.62? The NATO 7.62's (as well as the longer Russian 7.62) are hunks of long-range death, but have stronger kick than Chuck Norris (I was going to use Bruce Lee, but he preferred his fists =P ).

I think its the NATO. It had a iron tip in the slug. That's what I had 'imagined' this gun would use.


Also I have up a different version of this + a sniper version of this gun. I'm just throwing out variants.

US military has you beat with the OICW, a 20mm Grenade launcher (try that slug :) ) and 5.56x45mm assault rifle........

JOKES, but really, good job with this one.

Beat ya to it on the OICW =P Even if most anyone interested has given up hope on it...

I did. I gave up hope on it. But as a comparission I had to bring it up........

Just found this. Apparently, South Korea beat us to it.

Rip off of XM29. Besides, it looks good on paper, probably shitty as hell in combat on several grounds......

Aint going to matter if N Korea Desides to Level them........

Aye to the last part, but I expect the assault rifle part to at least be decent. The Daewoo rifles aren't shoddy at all. I'm just doubtful to how reliable the electronics will be.

Yeah, but the only difference between the OICW and a M4 w/ M203 is that the OICW costs probably 2-3 times as much, needs 2-3 times the serviceing, jams 1-2 times as much, requires extra training in mainatanence etc, and requires near ideal conditions. Oh, and its Grenade Round can be set to detonate in the air. Thats about it. Same reason why OICW was scrapped in the first place, why the US hasn't taken in Dragonskin Bodyarmor, and why Land Warrior is not operational

I thought the reason the Dragonskin body armor wasn't being produced was because it was too costly. Or I read wrong... I do recall a big argument about it on the FA forums between some people.

Thats what I implied, too costly. I was saying to Nikkifox that the XM29 OICW, a revolutionary rifle, costs too much and gives us little gain, and sacrifices a lot of other qualities of present small arms. In other words spend several thousand on this, or get "near the same thing" for much much less. Samething with Dragon skin, stops a 50 cal, unlike Interceptor, yet costs 3 times as much. "uneeded protection" (however I would much prefer dragons skin)

"Samething with Dragon skin, stops a 50 cal, unlike Interceptor, yet costs 3 times as much. "uneeded protection" (however I would much prefer dragons skin)"


I think a life is worth its weight in money, but then again, there's not enough money to be able to save EVERYONE. Shame they can't produce a set amount of them, give them to the 'important' people (generals, seargants, etc) for use instead of trying to outfit all their forces with them.

they did. in the private sector, 4 star general "whatever" landed in Iraq and his private security detail all had sragon skin. But Congress Outlawed its official use by the US Military. The only money Pinical Armor is Raking in is from the private contractors, whom use dragon skin.

The problem that arose from the Land Warrior system wasn't about the system itself being too costly... what we have designed is not prohibitively expensive, if it were put into mass production. The problem was that the research costs were getting exuberantly high for our budget, resulting in such large cuts that it's sitting stagnant (I know somebody who was on the project before the cutbacks). It would have paid off in the end, in my opinion, but they just couldn't budget it in with the cost of our forces overseas.

I didn't mean Land Warrior was to pricey, I meant it "Looks good on paper" and sure it would be a great system I would want, (when ever I join the USMC), and would work like implied, when ever you take a great system and give to a soldier, they become reliant on it and soon enough when they dont have it for whatever reason, you have an incomplete soldier.

I like it. It looks like it could put a good size hole in someone.

Yes it could put several sized holes in someone.

ahhh, I see. combined pump action shotgun and rapid-fire assault rifle with 1 clip for each, and interesting idea and one I think could be usefull and perhaps even possible in real life.

Yup, and i got the idea from Starship Troopers. Automatic Morita ftw!