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I wish I could experience that feeling of having a carer/big decide that I'm not big enough to do all of this on my own. I wish I could experience the power dynamic of giving up control, something that is terribly hard for me to do, to someone who would safely lead me down a path that, like Star, I really want to go down, but at the same time, am afraid to because I don't trust most people, and those I do, there's only one or two that I would allow this with. One of them is a Little anyway, and I wouldn't want to put her in the position of having to be a carer.
So, I am envious of Star, but more so, I'm envious of you, Sammy, since I know much of this is based on your own experiences.
So, I am envious of Star, but more so, I'm envious of you, Sammy, since I know much of this is based on your own experiences.
Oh, it's not too hard to remove a diaper in front of everyone for a spanking, and then put the spankee back in even thicker diapers, enough that the spankee can't even walk right, in front of everyone. Plus, having your diapers taken off in front of everyone, spanked, and then re-diapered, is a good warning to all the others, who already know the rules. However, I think Draco should also get a spanking from his carer, since he hypnotized Star and brought her back to a White room!
When someone says that to you, actually it's calming. You know as painful as your butt will be it's all gonna be fine-honest!
Star imho has made sensible decision on the basis of what in her age-play matters the most to her and Manda's word s are quite true because Stars actions had real consequences beyond Star own world.
*spoke as a little/middle mice self!*
Star imho has made sensible decision on the basis of what in her age-play matters the most to her and Manda's word s are quite true because Stars actions had real consequences beyond Star own world.
*spoke as a little/middle mice self!*
This situation looks so nice. But at the same time there was a part of me that expected the other choice to be chosen. Then again with this comic, she's pushing her boundaries and testing the water. Just looks like she got burned a bit. Would love something like this myself. At least, I think I would. I don't know for sure since I don't like breaking rules.
Wow... I feel bad for Manda!
I know it's just a silly fantasy comic, and a means to an end of experiencing a bunch of button pushing fantasies...
...but having it all laid out like this makes me realize how much Star's taking advantage of the situation... pushing boundaries... in a way that wasn't negotiated before hand ... and seems dishonest not just to herself but to others ... I'm disapointed in Star.
Now this may not be wholly fair, and I will have to re-read the earlier set up pages because maybe there was more understanding on Manda's part that Star was looking for a chance to act out and give herself permission to indulge in this next level of her fantasy... but reading it at this pace, emotionally it hit me like... "*ouch* Star, you're not just needy, but you using Manda!"
I think it's the combination of Manda bringing in guilt about her role as a guide into the community, and Star being eager but wanting to hide it that makes it feel "usey".
Like...
Is Manda really upset? Like Manda as Star's roleplay partner upset, maybe even so upset and exasperated that she's *not* breaking the scene?
Or is it just Manda in her role as the caregiver upset in a way that Manda knew was a possibility when she took on the role?
Does that even make sense? Am I over thinking it?
I don't know if that even makes sense
I know it's just a silly fantasy comic, and a means to an end of experiencing a bunch of button pushing fantasies...
...but having it all laid out like this makes me realize how much Star's taking advantage of the situation... pushing boundaries... in a way that wasn't negotiated before hand ... and seems dishonest not just to herself but to others ... I'm disapointed in Star.
Now this may not be wholly fair, and I will have to re-read the earlier set up pages because maybe there was more understanding on Manda's part that Star was looking for a chance to act out and give herself permission to indulge in this next level of her fantasy... but reading it at this pace, emotionally it hit me like... "*ouch* Star, you're not just needy, but you using Manda!"
I think it's the combination of Manda bringing in guilt about her role as a guide into the community, and Star being eager but wanting to hide it that makes it feel "usey".
Like...
Is Manda really upset? Like Manda as Star's roleplay partner upset, maybe even so upset and exasperated that she's *not* breaking the scene?
Or is it just Manda in her role as the caregiver upset in a way that Manda knew was a possibility when she took on the role?
Does that even make sense? Am I over thinking it?
I don't know if that even makes sense
There have been numberous occasions where Manda has offered to take a more...hands on....approach to stars care... just a few listed below but not all of them as im about to rush out the door...
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/13530443
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/15509635/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/17184579/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/18641195/
each time star has backed off and dismissed the advances/offers so no i dont think shes taking advantage of the situation, shes finally allowing herself the opportunity to experience something thats been on offer pretty much since the moment she stepped into lure and mandas life. if anything i think she's been pretty restrained
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/13530443
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/15509635/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/17184579/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/18641195/
each time star has backed off and dismissed the advances/offers so no i dont think shes taking advantage of the situation, shes finally allowing herself the opportunity to experience something thats been on offer pretty much since the moment she stepped into lure and mandas life. if anything i think she's been pretty restrained
Haha... ok good!
Yeah I'd had a strong memory of Manda offering to fully baby and diaper Star, so it was less that, but more the rule breaking as a way to get punished without ever making it clear that rule breaking and punishment was a thing she wanted out of their relationship.
The breakfast conversation on the other-hand I only vaguely remembered, and there it seems pretty clear that Manda and Tessa both are signing up for full custody, care, and correction of a naughty kitten ... and that they *want* to sign up for it! ^///^
Thank you!
Hrm... given how much Star was distracted by Lure at the time I wonder how much *she* remembers the details or considered the implications of what Manda said either...
Yeah I'd had a strong memory of Manda offering to fully baby and diaper Star, so it was less that, but more the rule breaking as a way to get punished without ever making it clear that rule breaking and punishment was a thing she wanted out of their relationship.
The breakfast conversation on the other-hand I only vaguely remembered, and there it seems pretty clear that Manda and Tessa both are signing up for full custody, care, and correction of a naughty kitten ... and that they *want* to sign up for it! ^///^
Thank you!
Hrm... given how much Star was distracted by Lure at the time I wonder how much *she* remembers the details or considered the implications of what Manda said either...
Glad you brought this up... and the links are helpful too. There's the somewhat certainty that there's the understanding between them that Star's getting what she wants and that Manda's willingly playing into it (and vice-versa?). But actually *in* this position (with Manda laying on the guilt too) it'd be easy for someone in Star's position to be confused about whether Star had taken it too far.
I guess in a little/big scene like this it's probably easier to tell, since a *really* mad Manda could break the scene entirely and send Star home.
But yeah... already in little-headspace, might not be able to see that, and someone else in Star's position might *really* think they did wrong. Dunno what I'd do/think... Manda might have to be extra clear that we're still friends. Aftercare... Precare?
I guess in a little/big scene like this it's probably easier to tell, since a *really* mad Manda could break the scene entirely and send Star home.
But yeah... already in little-headspace, might not be able to see that, and someone else in Star's position might *really* think they did wrong. Dunno what I'd do/think... Manda might have to be extra clear that we're still friends. Aftercare... Precare?
Yeah... maybe I was lulled too much into a less mature headspace while reading myself.
Manda's wall of text hit me with the sense of specific guilt and actual wrong doing - not at all the way Star's taking it, which is the sense of being little that comes from being scolded much more so than the guilt of the specific thing...
Manda's wall of text hit me with the sense of specific guilt and actual wrong doing - not at all the way Star's taking it, which is the sense of being little that comes from being scolded much more so than the guilt of the specific thing...
Similar for me... Manda's punishment options were what clued me in. But I don't think little headspace would be a requirement for confusion. Infact your concern about "using" is a pretty "big" concern. Shows you weren't as deep in littlespace as many might be. Maybe even more mature than many who are in their normal "big" space.
Didja see the comments from iribisgrief?
Didja see the comments from iribisgrief?
Oh! Thanks I found the thread this time...
Yes, I think it's an interesting discussion. This series is very affecting for many of us because it goes beyond the usual fantasy outrageousness and touches on things that are much more real.
Personally I didn't feel like Manda was putting Star in a bad spot, quite the opposite, since I was concerned Star was basically being an overly demanding sub... but I'm certain I was projecting! LOL
Will reply more in that thread...
Yes, I think it's an interesting discussion. This series is very affecting for many of us because it goes beyond the usual fantasy outrageousness and touches on things that are much more real.
Personally I didn't feel like Manda was putting Star in a bad spot, quite the opposite, since I was concerned Star was basically being an overly demanding sub... but I'm certain I was projecting! LOL
Will reply more in that thread...
I don't know if you're over thinking it or not, but my feeling is that Manda took a chance bringing Star to this party, one that she knew the guests knew the rules. That was on Manda.
However, Star isn't ready to let go yet, and Manda would have known that earlier when she had to put Star in the car with the pacifier and told her about Strike One. When Star argued about the bottle, Manda at that time had to have some idea that Star wasn't playing by Manda's rules.
In this page, the second panel with Manda doesn't look like she's all that angry by her facial expression (although it's hard in a comic to see that sometimes). I don't think she's as angry as she is portrayed, but she is, rightfully so, upset with Star, and Star is going to get her spanking.
I don't know, that's just my feeling.
However, Star isn't ready to let go yet, and Manda would have known that earlier when she had to put Star in the car with the pacifier and told her about Strike One. When Star argued about the bottle, Manda at that time had to have some idea that Star wasn't playing by Manda's rules.
In this page, the second panel with Manda doesn't look like she's all that angry by her facial expression (although it's hard in a comic to see that sometimes). I don't think she's as angry as she is portrayed, but she is, rightfully so, upset with Star, and Star is going to get her spanking.
I don't know, that's just my feeling.
tbh, this is one of the things that would pull me so hard into little space as a scared little girl. like, actual tears at that point.
i would be nervous and excited at the same time about getting changed by someone, but just getting yelled at starts to send me into little space as scared.
i would be nervous and excited at the same time about getting changed by someone, but just getting yelled at starts to send me into little space as scared.
No, because Manda respects a safeword. If she didn't, and the word got out, it would be as bad for her as it would have been for Star asking to go home, neither one would be invited back to any parties. Manda, having been around the scene long enough, knows this is the case, and wouldn't jeopardize her standing in the community.
As a kitten, I think that having it laid out what I'd done wrong would have had me in tears. For me, the word "disappoint" as in, "You've disappointed me, kitten." is a massive weight to put onto a little's shoulders, and I'm relieved to see that Manda did not use it. Still, I would have realized it and probably been saying it to myself. (I'm speaking of when I was a small kitten myself, not of any ABDL stuff) The self-punishment of knowing one has failed to meet the expectations she agreed to meet, of "disappointing" someone who held you to a standard... That to me is the worst punishment. A spanking doesn't come close to creating that kind of pain; if anything it releases some of it, because you know you've "paid up".
In Star's case, she's doing this as a fully-grown little. I'm not sure how a full set of adult feelings and knowledge of how to be well-behaved, knowledge that she's intentionally discarded, would play in. If I read Manda correctly, this spanking will not be pleasant, will not be for play. Still, Star doesn't yet seem to realize the level of trust that Manda placed in her and where she went wrong. Perhaps that's because, as I see it, the thing Star did "wrong" was to babytalk in a white room. Perhaps that doesn't merit the tanning she's about to get, (which despite having just put the THICK diaper *on* Star, I think Manda will be unfastening and dropping *DOWN* for a proper bare-bottom punishment across Manda's knee, thus necessitating she go back on her back /in front of everyone/ to have it refastened after the spanking is done) but that one "little" misbehaviour is only the "last straw". For my part, I wonder if Manda is a "scolding spanker" or a "silent spanker". I also wonder if, when Star is made to apologize to Ms. Flare, she will have it hit home and then, unbidden, apologize to Manda as well. I don't know if the hypnosis figures into this; obviously, in our RL it would not, but suspending disbelief (these are diapered adult furries driving about and partying together, after all) it might in Star's world.
I think it's fair to say that Star has, a piece at a time, bit off far more than she can chew. It is my hope that she spends the rest of the time at the party with the realization that she did not act properly, but that she's also owned up to it and paid her due; to borrow a phrase, it's said that one should not allow her mouth to write checks her butt can't cash... Miss Star has allowed her (mis)behaviour to write the checks and her bottom is about to have to go broke.
I see the rest of the day going as:
Star gets a fresh nappy
Star makes her apology/apologies
Star gets a skelping (maybe corner time, too)
Star is put down for a short nap
Star enjoys the rest of the party, the weekend, and any future time she may spend with Teca, Manda, and Lure, now being shown where her limits are. She may still test them periodically, but I don't suspect this is going to be the spanking she expects it to be... which is not to say that she won't enjoy reliving it in her mind later, with her purr in overdrive.
=^.^=
In Star's case, she's doing this as a fully-grown little. I'm not sure how a full set of adult feelings and knowledge of how to be well-behaved, knowledge that she's intentionally discarded, would play in. If I read Manda correctly, this spanking will not be pleasant, will not be for play. Still, Star doesn't yet seem to realize the level of trust that Manda placed in her and where she went wrong. Perhaps that's because, as I see it, the thing Star did "wrong" was to babytalk in a white room. Perhaps that doesn't merit the tanning she's about to get, (which despite having just put the THICK diaper *on* Star, I think Manda will be unfastening and dropping *DOWN* for a proper bare-bottom punishment across Manda's knee, thus necessitating she go back on her back /in front of everyone/ to have it refastened after the spanking is done) but that one "little" misbehaviour is only the "last straw". For my part, I wonder if Manda is a "scolding spanker" or a "silent spanker". I also wonder if, when Star is made to apologize to Ms. Flare, she will have it hit home and then, unbidden, apologize to Manda as well. I don't know if the hypnosis figures into this; obviously, in our RL it would not, but suspending disbelief (these are diapered adult furries driving about and partying together, after all) it might in Star's world.
I think it's fair to say that Star has, a piece at a time, bit off far more than she can chew. It is my hope that she spends the rest of the time at the party with the realization that she did not act properly, but that she's also owned up to it and paid her due; to borrow a phrase, it's said that one should not allow her mouth to write checks her butt can't cash... Miss Star has allowed her (mis)behaviour to write the checks and her bottom is about to have to go broke.
I see the rest of the day going as:
Star gets a fresh nappy
Star makes her apology/apologies
Star gets a skelping (maybe corner time, too)
Star is put down for a short nap
Star enjoys the rest of the party, the weekend, and any future time she may spend with Teca, Manda, and Lure, now being shown where her limits are. She may still test them periodically, but I don't suspect this is going to be the spanking she expects it to be... which is not to say that she won't enjoy reliving it in her mind later, with her purr in overdrive.
=^.^=
Not sure about a lot of this. We know how Star reacts to 'I'm disappointed in you' from the reaction she had when it came from her father. I don't think that reaction has ever gone away, actually. I know it still hurts me deeply when I hear it addressed to me, even as an adult. Even more so as an adult since I DO know better, at least in most cases.
You said that Star was doing it as a fully grown little. The problem, as I see it, is that Star ISN'T a fully grown little, she still doesn't understand the little headspace yet. She's an adult beginning to act out long held fantasies, and like a child, she is pushing her limits and finding out where they are. She may not realize she's doing it, but she is.
I agree about the spanking scenario, undiapered, spanked and then rediapered. Would you be a scolding spanker or a silent spanker? As to Star apologizing, she will respectfully apologize to Flare, but Manda? I'm not sure since she is now in a space that she has fantasized about. It depends on how Manda administers the spanking, I think. As to the hypnosis, I don't think it factors in at all, except that she was 'made' to speak baby-talk, and she used the signal to her to stop the hypnosis.
As to Star biting off more than she could chew, babies don't usually chew, they are spoon fed. I seriously think that Manda may have been spoon feeding Star to get her to this point, although Star has willingly obliged her. Maybe my own fantasies, and desires are speaking here, I'm not sure. There is no doubt that Star has pushed and broken boundaries, but something tells me a lot of this was a 'set up' for Star to be put in this position.
I don't think this will be the spanking Star expects, either, and she may get it from more than one person. Manda, Teca, Flare, Jimmy to name a few. Maybe. No, that's NOT one of my fantasies, I hate spankings, although I will take one if I'm a bad little. But, since my little age is 9-15 months old, I would hope that I wouldn't be doing anything I wasn't supposed to anyway.
I do suspect, by the end of the day, that Star's purr engine will be in overdrive. How long will it last, and will she still be thinking about it for her tomorrow, Monday or how long?
You said that Star was doing it as a fully grown little. The problem, as I see it, is that Star ISN'T a fully grown little, she still doesn't understand the little headspace yet. She's an adult beginning to act out long held fantasies, and like a child, she is pushing her limits and finding out where they are. She may not realize she's doing it, but she is.
I agree about the spanking scenario, undiapered, spanked and then rediapered. Would you be a scolding spanker or a silent spanker? As to Star apologizing, she will respectfully apologize to Flare, but Manda? I'm not sure since she is now in a space that she has fantasized about. It depends on how Manda administers the spanking, I think. As to the hypnosis, I don't think it factors in at all, except that she was 'made' to speak baby-talk, and she used the signal to her to stop the hypnosis.
As to Star biting off more than she could chew, babies don't usually chew, they are spoon fed. I seriously think that Manda may have been spoon feeding Star to get her to this point, although Star has willingly obliged her. Maybe my own fantasies, and desires are speaking here, I'm not sure. There is no doubt that Star has pushed and broken boundaries, but something tells me a lot of this was a 'set up' for Star to be put in this position.
I don't think this will be the spanking Star expects, either, and she may get it from more than one person. Manda, Teca, Flare, Jimmy to name a few. Maybe. No, that's NOT one of my fantasies, I hate spankings, although I will take one if I'm a bad little. But, since my little age is 9-15 months old, I would hope that I wouldn't be doing anything I wasn't supposed to anyway.
I do suspect, by the end of the day, that Star's purr engine will be in overdrive. How long will it last, and will she still be thinking about it for her tomorrow, Monday or how long?
I despise that phrase, using "disappointed" in reference to what someone has done, especially a child. We are in full agreement there.
OK, explanation: Star is a fully grown little. That means she's behaving as much like a little as she knows how to do, but she, the furson, is fully grown, an adult, able to drive, drink, vote, etc. You are fully correct that she's testing her limits subconsciously, IMHO.
How do I spank? As little as possible. =-.^= I'm not at all afraid of doing it, and if the situation demands it, yes, I will (not literally) positively blister someone's rude end, and make them regret whatever caused that every time they sit down. I don't do "bratting", though, wherein the little intentionally misbehaves to try to force a spanking. Those situations make me log out and stop playing. It's like teaching a child how to act with a pet. "Let them come to you" is a lesson children just can't seem to wrap their minds around. They want to run over and pet the doggy or the kitty, and then are shocked and hurt when the pet runs away or turns and scratches. If the child can walk quietly into a room, sit down, and wait, (they can't!) the pet WILL come to them. Maybe not the first time. but they will. In RP, that translates to letting a story write itself, letting the "oops" happen naturally. To answer your question, it varies. Sometimes I scold before, sometimes during, sometimes after, sometimes a combination... and often, even I don't know which it will be until I'm in the middle of it. One thing that is an absolute, though, is that after, when all the spanking and all the scolding and corner time and all are done, there is always aftercare. There is always room on my lap for a cuddle, if I'm caring for a little.
Star will be told what to say and when to say it to Flare, no question on that. "Star, what do you say to Ms. Flare?" amounts to telling her. If she's acting like the smart kitty she is, she will tell Flare what is expected and then will turn and say something like "...an' Auntie Manda, I'm sorry for breaking your rule, too. I shoulda listened to you. I'm- I'm ready for my spanking now, pleasefankyoo." basically doing what a good girl does, and then accepting what she's earned without complaint. And no, OOCly, I don't think she'll act like the smart kitty she is.
I was thinking that the hypno might have (in the suspension of disbelief category) still held some sway in her mind. If so, it might have influenced her request for more milk.
Interesting analogy, re "biting" vs. "spoon fed". Nicely done. Manda didn't tell her why the bottles had green collars instead of pink on them, but that wasn't something Star as a baby needed to know. I'm also still not convinced that Manda was not fully aware of Star's undies still being on the whole time. (I detailed that in another post, some weeks ago, but essentially, when picking up Star's clothing out of the potty room back at her house, that item would have been conspicuously absent. Couple that with Star's taking advantage of any opportunity to go potty like a big girl, and it all adds up. It also would not surprise me either way if Manda had told Jimmy and the other carers there to watch for this from Star and come get her, Manda, when the inevitable happened. It's equally possible that she knew all of that would happen anyway.
Manda promised Star a spanking, in public. Neither Flare nor Jimmy nor anyone else did, and that might be pushing trust. Teca.... Teca might be a different story entirely.
What littles never understand until they're not little anymore, is that adults typically don't want to spank. When we do it, it's to get your attention or possibly make a connection in your mind, "Oh. Huh. I did that and then I hurt. Maybe I shouldn't do that again." For my part, if I can give a sharp *tap* to your bottom as a promise of things to come unless something in your behaviour changes, that's enough for me.
Star, I suspect, will NEVER EVER forget this weekend, and once her tush settles down and stops hurting, she will recall it all fondly. (and given what we've seen, perhaps do so in a way of which littles are not aware. =-.^=
OK, explanation: Star is a fully grown little. That means she's behaving as much like a little as she knows how to do, but she, the furson, is fully grown, an adult, able to drive, drink, vote, etc. You are fully correct that she's testing her limits subconsciously, IMHO.
How do I spank? As little as possible. =-.^= I'm not at all afraid of doing it, and if the situation demands it, yes, I will (not literally) positively blister someone's rude end, and make them regret whatever caused that every time they sit down. I don't do "bratting", though, wherein the little intentionally misbehaves to try to force a spanking. Those situations make me log out and stop playing. It's like teaching a child how to act with a pet. "Let them come to you" is a lesson children just can't seem to wrap their minds around. They want to run over and pet the doggy or the kitty, and then are shocked and hurt when the pet runs away or turns and scratches. If the child can walk quietly into a room, sit down, and wait, (they can't!) the pet WILL come to them. Maybe not the first time. but they will. In RP, that translates to letting a story write itself, letting the "oops" happen naturally. To answer your question, it varies. Sometimes I scold before, sometimes during, sometimes after, sometimes a combination... and often, even I don't know which it will be until I'm in the middle of it. One thing that is an absolute, though, is that after, when all the spanking and all the scolding and corner time and all are done, there is always aftercare. There is always room on my lap for a cuddle, if I'm caring for a little.
Star will be told what to say and when to say it to Flare, no question on that. "Star, what do you say to Ms. Flare?" amounts to telling her. If she's acting like the smart kitty she is, she will tell Flare what is expected and then will turn and say something like "...an' Auntie Manda, I'm sorry for breaking your rule, too. I shoulda listened to you. I'm- I'm ready for my spanking now, pleasefankyoo." basically doing what a good girl does, and then accepting what she's earned without complaint. And no, OOCly, I don't think she'll act like the smart kitty she is.
I was thinking that the hypno might have (in the suspension of disbelief category) still held some sway in her mind. If so, it might have influenced her request for more milk.
Interesting analogy, re "biting" vs. "spoon fed". Nicely done. Manda didn't tell her why the bottles had green collars instead of pink on them, but that wasn't something Star as a baby needed to know. I'm also still not convinced that Manda was not fully aware of Star's undies still being on the whole time. (I detailed that in another post, some weeks ago, but essentially, when picking up Star's clothing out of the potty room back at her house, that item would have been conspicuously absent. Couple that with Star's taking advantage of any opportunity to go potty like a big girl, and it all adds up. It also would not surprise me either way if Manda had told Jimmy and the other carers there to watch for this from Star and come get her, Manda, when the inevitable happened. It's equally possible that she knew all of that would happen anyway.
Manda promised Star a spanking, in public. Neither Flare nor Jimmy nor anyone else did, and that might be pushing trust. Teca.... Teca might be a different story entirely.
What littles never understand until they're not little anymore, is that adults typically don't want to spank. When we do it, it's to get your attention or possibly make a connection in your mind, "Oh. Huh. I did that and then I hurt. Maybe I shouldn't do that again." For my part, if I can give a sharp *tap* to your bottom as a promise of things to come unless something in your behaviour changes, that's enough for me.
Star, I suspect, will NEVER EVER forget this weekend, and once her tush settles down and stops hurting, she will recall it all fondly. (and given what we've seen, perhaps do so in a way of which littles are not aware. =-.^=
Couple of things. One, I am a believing Christian. The Bible talks about the 'rod of correction.' There are two things, discipline and punishment The rod of correction is for discipline, not punishment Discipline is proper thinking, and when a child misbehaves, punishment, i.e., a spanking is way down the list. The modern day rod of correction is a wooden kitchen spoon and it applied to the back of the hand. It is an 'attention getter', nothing more. You tell the child to hold out their hand, and you gently tap it. You should not leave a red mark Even the act of telling the child to hold out their hand already lets them know they are in trouble, because they have not listened to you. Once you get their attention, you correct the doctrine by helping them to recall the instructions given. That is discipline.
I will discipline any child, because that is the only way to bring up a child. I don't do beatings, I had way too many of them in my childhood.
Punishment is when the child no longer listens to discipline, or overtly disobeys you. There are several ways to punish a child without actually spanking them. Take their phone away, or do like that guy down in Texas did to his daughter's laptop! That was great. Blew a bunch of .45 caliber holes through it, after she dissed him and his wife of Facebook . . . after she blocked them from seeing her posts. She just forgot to block the family's dog's acco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl1ujzRidmU
That's punishment without having to hit someone, although he does say how disappointed he is, and in this case, I think it's valid.
Star will easily apologize to Flare, I'm sure of that. Apologizing to Manda, she might, but it won't mean the same thing, I don't think. Of course, you know, I try to second guess Sammy all the time in her comics, and I never get them right.
As to Manda and the panties, I honestly don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no, or should that be 'maybe know?' lol I don't know about the other carers, not enough information to make a guess.
I don't think Star will ever forget this weekend, either, just as much as I don't think Sammy will forget whatever incident it's based on, either.
Thank you, Auntie.
I will discipline any child, because that is the only way to bring up a child. I don't do beatings, I had way too many of them in my childhood.
Punishment is when the child no longer listens to discipline, or overtly disobeys you. There are several ways to punish a child without actually spanking them. Take their phone away, or do like that guy down in Texas did to his daughter's laptop! That was great. Blew a bunch of .45 caliber holes through it, after she dissed him and his wife of Facebook . . . after she blocked them from seeing her posts. She just forgot to block the family's dog's acco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl1ujzRidmU
That's punishment without having to hit someone, although he does say how disappointed he is, and in this case, I think it's valid.
Star will easily apologize to Flare, I'm sure of that. Apologizing to Manda, she might, but it won't mean the same thing, I don't think. Of course, you know, I try to second guess Sammy all the time in her comics, and I never get them right.
As to Manda and the panties, I honestly don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no, or should that be 'maybe know?' lol I don't know about the other carers, not enough information to make a guess.
I don't think Star will ever forget this weekend, either, just as much as I don't think Sammy will forget whatever incident it's based on, either.
Thank you, Auntie.
Interesting way to think about it.
I always take that 'discipline' means any controlling of a child or someone who's below you. Rewarding is also a form of discipline as are punishment. Also neutral things like how you talk to them is discipline. Things that will make those below you do as you tell them to.
Here though I feel it's kind of too much. I feel you should be able to avoid punishments without much effort. At least to me it feels like Star is being told she's a brat while she is still trying to process the situation and that is when discipline fails.
I always take that 'discipline' means any controlling of a child or someone who's below you. Rewarding is also a form of discipline as are punishment. Also neutral things like how you talk to them is discipline. Things that will make those below you do as you tell them to.
Here though I feel it's kind of too much. I feel you should be able to avoid punishments without much effort. At least to me it feels like Star is being told she's a brat while she is still trying to process the situation and that is when discipline fails.
Marinus,
What is 'discipline' and what is 'punishment?'
We talk about 'following a discipline' as a way to say that we follow a certain belief pattern, or teaching. I am 'disciplined' in gun safety so that I don't hurt myself or anyone else. I may have a martial arts discipline.
A punishment, on the other hand, is something that is used for not following a certain rule, whether it's a legal punishment, i.e., prison or a fine, or a parental punishment like a spanking, time out, or taking away a privilege.
In today's lexicon, the two are often interchanged, but they should not be.
When I parent teaches a child, they are instructing that child in a 'discipline', i.e., how that parent wants the child to act and behave. That's up to the parents on how they do that, but hopefully they'll bring the child up the way we would like to see them brought up.
The 'punishment' is a corrective action for the child (in a parent/child relationship) to reprove them and put them back thinking about the discipline the parent has set forth.
Mom: I've just baked cookies for after dinner, do not eat them now.
Little Johnny: I want one now!
Mom: No, I just told you they are for after dinner.
Johnny sulks but agrees.
This is the discipline. The cookies are for after dinner.
Thirty minutes later, Johnny comes out of the kitchen munching on a cookie. His mom sees him.
Mom: Why are you eating the cookie? I told you not to.
Little Johnny: Uh, I don't know. I wanted one.
Mom: What did I tell you?
Johnny, knowing he's caught: They were for after dinner?
Mom: Correct, so because you had yours now, you won't get any after dinner, nor will you get the ice cream I bought to go with it.
This is the punishment. Not only does Johnny not get any more cookies, he doesn't get the additional treat of the ice cream while the rest of his family enjoys.
Discipline and punishment, two very different things. Don't confuse them with each other.
What is 'discipline' and what is 'punishment?'
We talk about 'following a discipline' as a way to say that we follow a certain belief pattern, or teaching. I am 'disciplined' in gun safety so that I don't hurt myself or anyone else. I may have a martial arts discipline.
A punishment, on the other hand, is something that is used for not following a certain rule, whether it's a legal punishment, i.e., prison or a fine, or a parental punishment like a spanking, time out, or taking away a privilege.
In today's lexicon, the two are often interchanged, but they should not be.
When I parent teaches a child, they are instructing that child in a 'discipline', i.e., how that parent wants the child to act and behave. That's up to the parents on how they do that, but hopefully they'll bring the child up the way we would like to see them brought up.
The 'punishment' is a corrective action for the child (in a parent/child relationship) to reprove them and put them back thinking about the discipline the parent has set forth.
Mom: I've just baked cookies for after dinner, do not eat them now.
Little Johnny: I want one now!
Mom: No, I just told you they are for after dinner.
Johnny sulks but agrees.
This is the discipline. The cookies are for after dinner.
Thirty minutes later, Johnny comes out of the kitchen munching on a cookie. His mom sees him.
Mom: Why are you eating the cookie? I told you not to.
Little Johnny: Uh, I don't know. I wanted one.
Mom: What did I tell you?
Johnny, knowing he's caught: They were for after dinner?
Mom: Correct, so because you had yours now, you won't get any after dinner, nor will you get the ice cream I bought to go with it.
This is the punishment. Not only does Johnny not get any more cookies, he doesn't get the additional treat of the ice cream while the rest of his family enjoys.
Discipline and punishment, two very different things. Don't confuse them with each other.
Sammy, great page, absolutely awesome stuff here. I've talked about some of the stuff in my replies to others, so I won't repeat it here.
One of the things I would like to say is that your work as an artist has come a long way, just in the year or so I've been following you. You are proceeding wonderfully in your art, and I can't wait to see your animations, once you start on those. You really know how to write a story and then illustrate it.
I really am looking forward to the next page of Shine (as well as Found, and can't forget CTN!) Great job, young lady!
One of the things I would like to say is that your work as an artist has come a long way, just in the year or so I've been following you. You are proceeding wonderfully in your art, and I can't wait to see your animations, once you start on those. You really know how to write a story and then illustrate it.
I really am looking forward to the next page of Shine (as well as Found, and can't forget CTN!) Great job, young lady!
I'm so dumb I forgot Star really wants this she is a very naughty kitten, if it was me I'd say I'll leave on feet i travel a lot i don't need a car I'd say bye to everyone and leave on feet,
but Star ain't me aka clash Star wants to be diapered, put in a cute outfit, and spanked in front of everyone.
that stuff is not for me though I like humiliation and spankings but spanked in front of everyone in the I'll call it "Day care" I dunno if I could handle that strangers seeing me spanked for being bad,yeah I couldn't handle that so good luck Star.
but Star ain't me aka clash Star wants to be diapered, put in a cute outfit, and spanked in front of everyone.
that stuff is not for me though I like humiliation and spankings but spanked in front of everyone in the I'll call it "Day care" I dunno if I could handle that strangers seeing me spanked for being bad,yeah I couldn't handle that so good luck Star.
Besides from the exploding head earlier in the story, I don't think I've ever seen Star's face so red as it is in that last panel. I can imagine Ellie saying something about 'diapers', maybe for Fiona, for Star gets home, and she turns beet red from the tips of her toes all the way to the top of her head. It would be funny.
Look at the three panels Manda is in. The first one, her ears are way down, not q good sign in a feline. Second panel, they're more upright, more 'normal' and the last panel, her ears are about halfway. So, I would say that she's going through a whole bunch of emotions, real anger, conciliatory anger, and then just being upset.
Now this is the problem with disciplining some abdls and other kink lovers.
How do you punish someone who enjoys being punished? The unfortunate thing is to force them into a corner with no kinks at all. Or possibly intoduce an element that they DON'T like while maintaining love and care for them. But i guess the problem here is that manda may not know that star enjoys it, which would further add to future bad behaviour. There's a difference between playing bad and genuine defiance. And some caretakers don't like defiance.
How do you punish someone who enjoys being punished? The unfortunate thing is to force them into a corner with no kinks at all. Or possibly intoduce an element that they DON'T like while maintaining love and care for them. But i guess the problem here is that manda may not know that star enjoys it, which would further add to future bad behaviour. There's a difference between playing bad and genuine defiance. And some caretakers don't like defiance.
I think the same as Manda with the "unfair to someone put expensive cloths in the bin" and "unfair to take my little boy early"
But anyway... Star you are loosing the Joy of a warm diaper ... What if Manda make star like the diapers with a vibrator?
Awesome comic, keep the realistic and mermerize story
But anyway... Star you are loosing the Joy of a warm diaper ... What if Manda make star like the diapers with a vibrator?
Awesome comic, keep the realistic and mermerize story
I'm sorry, but, much as I've loved this comic and Star's explorations, Mandy should be banned from this event for life. She prevented Star from participating under either SSC or RACK by not telling her what was going on with the bottles. Her attempts to push Star here and previously by staying in character are more abuse than dom, and she never had the vital sit down where she goes over what Star is comfortable with before getting her into this. MANDY is the one who needs a stern spanking and a lifetime ban from such events. Caretakers like that are why it's intimidating for people to get into ABDL.
I'll point out that the very important thing she's not doing here, since she's pushing Star quite briskly, is that she is not breaking her dom role at all to make sure that Star, the sub, knows what she's getting into and is comfortable and ready for it. She knows that Star is not involved in this world fully and doesn't actually understand how everything works. And her snide jokes about 'being too lenient' should be a red flag to everyone who knows Star is new.
Just. That level of internal conflict in a sub that is clearly teetering on subspace... hasn't had things like bratting/behaving explained, is new to everything... it just infuriates me. She is giving confused subspace consent and Mandy is taking it, when Star should've given enthusiastic consent while not in subspace and when she fully understood everything like bottle colors and the like.
I don't know what your acronyms mean. Manda Laid out the rules and warned star if they were broken what would happen. Star deliberately broke those rules knowing what had been threatened. Manda has been gentle and not pushed star thru the whole comic. I agree that things in real terms have moved fast but for 192 pages to get to this point I don't feel like I could have moved things along much slower.
This is just a comic so please don't take it too seriously
This is just a comic so please don't take it too seriously
RACK - Risk Aware Consensual Kink
SSC - Safe Sane Consensual
Those are the two systems used for ensuring everyone is happy in kink settings...
She laid things out, but she couched them in in-kink terms. She didn't say things like "Diuretics are used at the party, would you be comfortable with that?" before the party (which would have made the bottle thing fine as Star was consenting to it possibly happening at some point) and having forgotten to do that, she didn't, say, lay a hand on Star's shoulder and lean down and whisper "green is diuretic, are you sure you want it?" so that Star could give an informed, consensual decision that wasn't coerced by lack of understanding.
She warned that bratting is only permitted in certain areas but never explained what bratting is or why it's only allowed in certain areas - considering that new subs often brat from lack of knowledge in most settings, this was setting up Star for an issue. That'd be fine if at some point she'd been like "I can let you stumble around through stuff, but that's going to lead to you getting punished." Instead, she kind of did the opposite, Star seemed to have taken the whole sitter/guide part as meaning that someone would be nearby to explain to her what she was getting into before she did anything. In fact, having someone there to do that should be mandatory for anyone new.
Keep in mind, I'm not mad at like, the actual Manda, I don't even know them. What I'm upset by is that this comic has been such a good introduction to how people get into a kink up until this party, where I had expected it to continue, explaining and showing how the world of BDSM/ABDL is all carefully organized to ensure everyone is happy and knows what they are getting into. Instead it's gone in another direction that I honestly would've been fine with in a normal porn comic, but Shine felt very different and I really liked it the way I thought it was. As someone who engages in very dark kinks, I take SSC and RACK very seriously, especially when we are talking about RL enactments of kinks. I know it's just a comic, but it was something special and different and I really valued it the way I'd perceived it up to these couple of pages. :/
SSC - Safe Sane Consensual
Those are the two systems used for ensuring everyone is happy in kink settings...
She laid things out, but she couched them in in-kink terms. She didn't say things like "Diuretics are used at the party, would you be comfortable with that?" before the party (which would have made the bottle thing fine as Star was consenting to it possibly happening at some point) and having forgotten to do that, she didn't, say, lay a hand on Star's shoulder and lean down and whisper "green is diuretic, are you sure you want it?" so that Star could give an informed, consensual decision that wasn't coerced by lack of understanding.
She warned that bratting is only permitted in certain areas but never explained what bratting is or why it's only allowed in certain areas - considering that new subs often brat from lack of knowledge in most settings, this was setting up Star for an issue. That'd be fine if at some point she'd been like "I can let you stumble around through stuff, but that's going to lead to you getting punished." Instead, she kind of did the opposite, Star seemed to have taken the whole sitter/guide part as meaning that someone would be nearby to explain to her what she was getting into before she did anything. In fact, having someone there to do that should be mandatory for anyone new.
Keep in mind, I'm not mad at like, the actual Manda, I don't even know them. What I'm upset by is that this comic has been such a good introduction to how people get into a kink up until this party, where I had expected it to continue, explaining and showing how the world of BDSM/ABDL is all carefully organized to ensure everyone is happy and knows what they are getting into. Instead it's gone in another direction that I honestly would've been fine with in a normal porn comic, but Shine felt very different and I really liked it the way I thought it was. As someone who engages in very dark kinks, I take SSC and RACK very seriously, especially when we are talking about RL enactments of kinks. I know it's just a comic, but it was something special and different and I really valued it the way I'd perceived it up to these couple of pages. :/
Also perhaps keep in mind that mistakes happen and boundaries are crossed with consequences. I don't want to give plot away but things don't always go to plan and things are never perfect. Manda isn't a perfect person and neither is star and neither am I. I've done some bloody stupid things in my pursuit for kink fulfillment not realising the danger I was putting myself in. So in order to build the story stuff has been written for a reason.
Irb here. Snuck on my phone account at work because I care and wanted to see what was being said...
I know nobody is perfect, certainly not me. I have done some damn dumb things that could have cost me my life. I suppose that is why I am so concerned by it. I really like Shine as a comic about REAL KINKSTER ™. For example, consider the line where Manda pointed out that there were no rules, she could be diapered too and it didn't matter, it is what people want out of kink that matters. That kind of stuff gives this comic a special home in my heart.
I am sorry if it feels like I am attacking you, the actual Manda, or the world of enjoyable kinks. I didn't want it to seem that way and apologize for making it seem like that by how vigorously I made my points.
I know nobody is perfect, certainly not me. I have done some damn dumb things that could have cost me my life. I suppose that is why I am so concerned by it. I really like Shine as a comic about REAL KINKSTER ™. For example, consider the line where Manda pointed out that there were no rules, she could be diapered too and it didn't matter, it is what people want out of kink that matters. That kind of stuff gives this comic a special home in my heart.
I am sorry if it feels like I am attacking you, the actual Manda, or the world of enjoyable kinks. I didn't want it to seem that way and apologize for making it seem like that by how vigorously I made my points.
Interesting... when you lay it out like that.. you have a great point. Regardless of Star's desire to be treated this way, the effects of subspace may not make her fully capable of making thought-out decisions... like getting a person near blackout drunk then having sex with them.
Hmm...
And kinda worse in that being in that mindset Star might actually feel bad about her actions and blame only herself if it goes too far for her comfort level (which also has to include her comfort with the memory of the events when she's in other/normal settings, which, again, is probably far from her "drunken" mindset in the now)
Huh.
Hmm...
And kinda worse in that being in that mindset Star might actually feel bad about her actions and blame only herself if it goes too far for her comfort level (which also has to include her comfort with the memory of the events when she's in other/normal settings, which, again, is probably far from her "drunken" mindset in the now)
Huh.
I think this is an interesting discussion...
I don't think Manda was too far out of line, certainly no more than Star was maybe being overly bratty... but I totally can see where Irb is coming from.
More to the point, I don't think it's fair to dismiss their concerns, or more than concerns, their thoughts and reflections. While this certainly is just a silly fantasy comic, it is fairly unusual in that its far more realistic about AB relationships, lifestyles, feelings, than most are. As such it asks us to relate to it not as 'pure fantasy' but as genre fiction.
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say the story has a 'responsibility' to be realistic, or promote safe practices... but on the other hand I think everyone should realize that because Shine *is* a farily realistic AB story, folks *will* come to Shine with feelings from their actual for realz real life experiences (and hopes, dreams, etc.) closer to the surface than they would to much of the completely outrageous pure fantasy material.
It's a hard thing for Star to juggle I imagine... especially if (as hinted above) she wants to explicitly tackle how 'in real life' even the best intentioned negotiated interactions can go slightly off, or produce feelings that were not expected...
Anyhoo, keep it up Star! Waiting with bated breath!
I don't think Manda was too far out of line, certainly no more than Star was maybe being overly bratty... but I totally can see where Irb is coming from.
More to the point, I don't think it's fair to dismiss their concerns, or more than concerns, their thoughts and reflections. While this certainly is just a silly fantasy comic, it is fairly unusual in that its far more realistic about AB relationships, lifestyles, feelings, than most are. As such it asks us to relate to it not as 'pure fantasy' but as genre fiction.
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say the story has a 'responsibility' to be realistic, or promote safe practices... but on the other hand I think everyone should realize that because Shine *is* a farily realistic AB story, folks *will* come to Shine with feelings from their actual for realz real life experiences (and hopes, dreams, etc.) closer to the surface than they would to much of the completely outrageous pure fantasy material.
It's a hard thing for Star to juggle I imagine... especially if (as hinted above) she wants to explicitly tackle how 'in real life' even the best intentioned negotiated interactions can go slightly off, or produce feelings that were not expected...
Anyhoo, keep it up Star! Waiting with bated breath!
Stupid phone deleted my great response... Let's try again:
Poor Real-Life Star has had the "responsibility" discussion in the past... And I think what it really boils down to is that this is "just a comic" or more like a piece of art from a talented artist we admire. So, she should be able to take her art in whichever path she wants...
Given the scene, I dunno if any lines were really crossed... But you make a great point, this one is a bit less fantastic (aka more realistic) than most, so the question is whether a real-life person in these real-life scenarios might feel as though a line was crossed... and that is *entirely* up to that person.
This thread seems like a good counter-point to our discussion above, where we thought maybe Star was being too demanding (wherein I think we both imagined ourselves in Star's shoes, wondering whether *we'd* gone too far). This discussion seems to suggest maybe Manda has gone too far... Seems to balance out the equation ;)
And, anyways, neither of *them* seem too offended to stop the scene, so realistically, neither has gone too far. Their personalities seem to mesh such that hard-rules (vs. scene-rules) aren't going to be crossed by either.
(Man, this isn't *nearly* as well-written as that I lost on the phone. Blah)
Oh, as far as whether Real-Life Star should take any of this into consideration: Just look at all the other comments... few people seem to be offended with the path it's taken, if anything most seem to think it's going great. There's just a few of us who think too much, and even most of those of us who do seem to enjoy the comic and how it's progressing.
Poor Real-Life Star has had the "responsibility" discussion in the past... And I think what it really boils down to is that this is "just a comic" or more like a piece of art from a talented artist we admire. So, she should be able to take her art in whichever path she wants...
Given the scene, I dunno if any lines were really crossed... But you make a great point, this one is a bit less fantastic (aka more realistic) than most, so the question is whether a real-life person in these real-life scenarios might feel as though a line was crossed... and that is *entirely* up to that person.
This thread seems like a good counter-point to our discussion above, where we thought maybe Star was being too demanding (wherein I think we both imagined ourselves in Star's shoes, wondering whether *we'd* gone too far). This discussion seems to suggest maybe Manda has gone too far... Seems to balance out the equation ;)
And, anyways, neither of *them* seem too offended to stop the scene, so realistically, neither has gone too far. Their personalities seem to mesh such that hard-rules (vs. scene-rules) aren't going to be crossed by either.
(Man, this isn't *nearly* as well-written as that I lost on the phone. Blah)
Oh, as far as whether Real-Life Star should take any of this into consideration: Just look at all the other comments... few people seem to be offended with the path it's taken, if anything most seem to think it's going great. There's just a few of us who think too much, and even most of those of us who do seem to enjoy the comic and how it's progressing.
While I understand that Manda is fine in doing this because Star is okay with it, I still think there should have been a bit more build up in to Star learning the ropes. I think Manda was a bit quick to invite her to this party, but it's just lucky that Star is so in to this kind of thing.
It's all good because obviously Star and Manda mesh, but the entire dynamic would squick me out if I couldn't see Star's side. Manda might be very experienced in this world, but Star is generally a new friend to her and who knows what boundaries will be crossed and when. Same back at Star. Manda is a new friend and she's really pushing it. It's a very interesting situation.
It's all good because obviously Star and Manda mesh, but the entire dynamic would squick me out if I couldn't see Star's side. Manda might be very experienced in this world, but Star is generally a new friend to her and who knows what boundaries will be crossed and when. Same back at Star. Manda is a new friend and she's really pushing it. It's a very interesting situation.
Love this comic so much... I have been watching for a while and I too feel some connection too it.... goes to show you, that one can get lost in it all and then end up in big trouble hehe. Keep up the great work and maybe I too can learn to show my little side more as well as inspiration as little star has gone through
I haven't been able to keep up with all of the comments of late, I've been busy and had a couple of bad days. I know that telling a story, especially like this, do not always line up with the reality we all know and love. I mean, peeps, we have animals dressing up, talking, driving cars, etc. This isn't our reality. I've had the same sentiment thrown in my face a couple of times, so for those who are heavy into kink, kind of set that on the shelf for a bit, sit back and relax, okay?
Now, the comment I REALLY wanted to make.
Anyone notice that through all of these pages, I've never seen a comment from Manda, Lure or Teca? These are all real furs, real FA accounts. Used to be you'd see a lot of comments from them. Not in a very long time.
I guess they lost interest in this story, or have gone on to other things. That's too bad, I would have liked to have heard from them on their opinion and input.
Now, the comment I REALLY wanted to make.
Anyone notice that through all of these pages, I've never seen a comment from Manda, Lure or Teca? These are all real furs, real FA accounts. Used to be you'd see a lot of comments from them. Not in a very long time.
I guess they lost interest in this story, or have gone on to other things. That's too bad, I would have liked to have heard from them on their opinion and input.
I know i'm probably over analyzing the hell out of this, but
There's definitely something going on with Manda's eyes in the top image. I expected to see Star (or even better yet, a little Star to represent how Manda viewed star at the moment) but instead I see... spikes? With barbs on them? That's... concerning.
Of course, i'm probably just crazy. What's new?
There's definitely something going on with Manda's eyes in the top image. I expected to see Star (or even better yet, a little Star to represent how Manda viewed star at the moment) but instead I see... spikes? With barbs on them? That's... concerning.
Of course, i'm probably just crazy. What's new?
Again you are stating these things as if they are fact. What may be true for you may not be true for others and truthfully the phrase 'The fear you have towards the caretaker is a big part of the headspace.' is as far from my own truth as possible. I WAS afraid of my real father, I am not afraid of my husband/daddy. he provides a safe place for me to explore things. fear has never factored in. not once. Not even when hes had me over his lap and spanking me into a sobbing mess. Love and trust for me are the main priorities.
I don't see how you can be spanked to a sobbing mess and not have fear play into it. That has never happened with me and I still fear my caretaker. Isn't the whole goal of discipline to invoke that feeling of fear that will keep unruly brats in line? If discipline doesn't make you afraid then it just feels like being mean for no reason.
Also I didn't expect he would actually spank you hard. If it isn't to make you fear him then what is the point?
Also I didn't expect he would actually spank you hard. If it isn't to make you fear him then what is the point?
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