Homeland Security, or maybe just the good ol' FBI, or maybe the mysterious NSA.

Aww, it's not all that bad now is it? That same government managed to get rid of slavery. The best course of action in my opinion is slow social reform, because more often than not you get something even worse in return after a revolution. Iran, China, Russia, Cuba - just saying.

Throwing everything you got away and starting over again is in my eyes really a cheap-ass solution and a very, very dangerous one at that.

That 'same gov.' did not voluntarily get rid of slavery. That war had nothing to do with slavery of the human kind, it was about the powerful northern business/industrial elite lording it over the up-n-coming southern business elite. The north was just as if not more invested in the slave trade. (The 'Bush' family made their first fortune importing slaves.)
If Cuba's was so bad why has it not fallen down completely by now.
As for 'throwing everything away' did not our 'Founding Fathers' (by the way also made up entirely of weathy land owners and merchants.) do that very thing?

I live in Texas. A lot of the bitterness over the Civil War is what was done to the south after the "War of Yankee Aggression" (as it is referred to down south). History is written by the winners, and they can wrap themselves in a mantle of justification after the fact, and spend the next hundred years punishing the losers for being trusting enough to surrender.

There was definately one thing I liked about Bush, and that was that dispite all his failings, you knew where he stood on things. He lacked the bullshit skills and the elequence to be able to feel you a line of garbage like other more skillful politicians. If he was lying, you could tell before the words even left his mouth, and most of the time due to his rather blunt nature, he would tell you exactly what he was thinking, be it intentinaly or not. Not only that, but because the media made sure that the Bush administration could keep a secret as well as a strainer can hold water, you knew what they were doing before they did.

You are adorable.

Yah mean such blunt things as "They Missunderestimated Me"?

Pretty much. Tell me, when he made attempts to come up with ways of hiding his actions and thoughts, could you honestly consider him a convincing person? No. When he was lying to you, you knew right off the bat.

True, but he was just the ventriloquist dummy for Cheney -- the clown to distract the country from what the King was doing.

Too true.

I wonder if anyone remembers the basic political concept of 'Perecived powers'.

back to the good ole´ J. Edgar Hoover days, right? I feel the very same anger that you feel, my country is being run by drug dealers, and narcos, corrupt politicians swearing with one hand Mexico will never cease to fight those bastards while making deals with the ther hand, what really fills me with rage is people not waking up not getting ready to fight for this land, to fix things up. Kinda depressing isn´t it?

I argue that a good majority of our military will not turn on the civilian population. I used to say the same about our police force as a whole but I question that now.

I honestly don't think that's true. People who join the military swear to protect the country. If that meant killing a few armed civilians, I think they would do it. One of the questions they ask when you go to join the military, and I believe it's to judge your mindset, is 'Would you have trouble killing another person?'

I know quite a few who are in the service and no they would take a life if nessary but IIRC part of their oath is to uphold the constitution and many join out of a sense of patriotism and honor to their country. I would say theres a few who would, a few who would be deceived but most would not fire against their own citizens.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Emphasis is mine, as you can see it says nothing about pretecting the American citizen or their property.

I guess it depends on how litarly one takes the constitution. By supporting and defending it defends the citizens.

I agree with you, Dark. It's a whole different war when you're shooting your neighbors and families. The Civil War was hard enough, but that at least had borders and front lines, and territory belonging to US and THEM. I wouldn't take bets on it.

One can hope that would be the case.

The qualifier is who is in the military. We have an all-volenteer force composed of the exact same mindset and values they would be set against in a revolt, likely even their own relatives.
My yongest bro was in the Marines during the Klinton years and was in the 2nd wave of amtracks to hit the beach in Somalia. While he was in basic, they gave the now-infamous question of "would you fire on US citizens if a presidential order outlawing firearms was enacted and you were sent to seize them?" He says he voted "NO!", Most of his barracks also voted the same, and of the ones that said "Yes", many said they lied to allay suspicions and would "jump Ship" to the rebs with an amtrack packed with weapons if such happened. Someone recently let slip why the Q was asked; the US Navy is not covered by "Possie Comatatus" laws. And apparently because they began as part of the Navy when the laws were enacted, neither are the Marines...
This is why none of the "powers that be" have staged a "Reichstag fire" event to become El Presidente for Life, a'la Chancellor Palpatine; they now know they cannot trust their troops not to turn on them in such an event. Not even Shrub was that dim.
What worries me is I heard and saw the Obamanation state during an unscripted moment in his campaign that he was going to gut the military budget and give the money and surplused equipment "saved" to a private security force he would create...

That 'Private force' now goes by the name 'XE' (pronounced Ze) formerly know as Blackwater.
And our dear Mr. Obama is like anyone else that finds themslves in that post of 'prez', you find out just how powerless that position is and exactly who your boss(es) is (are) and it aint John Q. Public, and it for sure hasn't been since Lincoln.

This keeps on going, huh?

Somehow these comments strike me as being less than approving, and yet also oddly constant on every page.

Problems? Don't keep them inside; we'd like to know. At least I would.

Do you still feel the same way about gradualism versus revolution that you did when you wrote this?

So, Karno, how do you feel about waterboarding?

I have been a proponent of open rebellion and a new Civil War for a long time now. The big problem is motivation....everyone is eager to be first in line to bitch about soemthing, but no one wants to take a real stand.

When the government steals 30% of my paycheck(Taxes, they say. Paying my dues to be an American...sure, I buy that, but there's also a thing called price gouging) I have a serious fucking problem with that.

Idealistically America stands for good things, but the very nature of those freedoms has devolved it into a miasma of entitlement and unchecked corporate and governmental greed.

I almost died from appendicitis in 2007. 18 hours in the emrgency room(They wanted to keep me for a week, but I walked out...almost. I collapsed on the floor, but they let me go) cost me, without insurance(You know, that protection racket where you pay soemone JUST IN CASE you get sick, but never get this money back if you never use it)...$37,000.

My itemized bill had things like:

Hot Blanket - $175

Syringe - $8

Needle - $4(yes folks, they actually charge you for a needle's components, as well as the contents)

After the fact I was told I don't qualify for financial aid because I'm too rich. Because living in a dilapidated mobile home with 3 cars from the mid 80s that don't work, never have bought a new car, have no credit, own absolutely nothing of real value.....yeah....I'm too rich.

People always say "I'm just one person", but that reminds me of a Despair.com poster I love.

"No single drop of rain believes it is responsible for the flood."

Detestable loathesome politicians that sweet talk the rube goldberg populace into thinking we are going to be explodeded by brown people waltzed in and swept away our Rights and the American people lapped it up and towed the line....sickening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

This guy says the truth.

Oh, and before anyone snipes at me thinking I want a handout and shit, I have paid all but $14,500 of this bill off since I incurred it by busting my ass and sacrificing things I want and need to pay this unfair, bloated insult of a bullshit bill, and yes, they sent it to collections on me.

It cost me $6,200 just to sit in the ER for 7 hours. The surgery itself "only" would have cost 10 grand, but thankfully Doctor Ramesh (yes, a Eastern indian complete with turban) cut me a break and "only" nailed me for $7,000. The Anesthesiologist cost $4,000.

And lets not forget the Rent we pay to keep our land and holdings in the form of "Property Tax". Don't pay that? Well, they steal your land and fine you, and possibly jail you. Isn't that lovely.

You own nothing in America but a legacy of greed and wasted lives in the form of military that died so we could sit on our asses and watch Seinfeld.

I went bankrupt in January AND february, living only on cash advances from my company to pay for living expenses, because I busted my ass and PAID my debts with money I earned with my own sweat and blood. I was in the hole, but I paid my bills.

Because hey...if I didn't pay the tax, they were going to auction off my 2 acres of barren land with a shitty mobile home on it.

Terrorists do not wear turbans and wield scimitars and AK-47's, they wear business suits and ties, and shake your hand while sticking their big government dick up your ass.

.....what the fuck, America.

Don't you just Love the 'Milton Freidman' model of economics.

I......I believe you have my stapler....

I can top that with a 50 buck a year tax that they now changed to $1 per paycheck from a one lump sum payment (and thus jumped it to $52 a year). Because the area I live is a depressed area, we have to pay that right to work tax. So simply because you're one of the few people to be able to get a job, you have to pay a tax for that right. What's worse is the polititians are such a bunch of morons here, that when businesses come in and actually want to open up shop here, they have to stick their nose into everything, and have on multiple occassions chased the businesses off. All because they make all these promises to get things cleared and ready for the business, then drag their ass and never do anything. After a long enough time, the businesses get pissed and leave.

Oh yes, because "Up against the Wall Revolution" Worked so well for the Russians and the Chinese. They sure stopped the senseless killing of people, didn't they?

And before the Russians, it was the French, who while they avoided Communism, spent centuries embroiled in massive civil wars and mass killings, with government toppling government until they finally ended up with the Republic. Meanwhile, the Brits kept their Monarchy and Nobles, but just added a Parliamentary system that eventually became the center of government, with the Monarchy losing all but it's symbolic power. Silly Brits and their refusal to see the virtue of "Up against the Wall Revolutions".

Ironically, the American revolution was the only one that kept itself from turning to brutal mass killings of it's political enemies to sustain itself, and it still ended up conquering the Native tribes. Oh well, can't win 'em all.

So, yeah, if you're going to complain about the Rich, try finding solutions that haven't been historically proven to be far worst then the original problem.

I do believe you need to take a closer look at your American history before you make such blanket statments as "Ironically, the American revolution was the only one that kept itself from turning to brutal mass killings of it's political enemies to sustain itself, and it still ended up conquering the Native tribes. Oh well, can't win 'em all." Because they dam well did both during and after their revoluton. And as for your blith little quip about 'conquering' the native peoples, what America did makes the German 'holocaust' look down right antiseptic.

ABORIGINIES, n. Persons of little worth found cumbering the soil of a newly discovered country. They soon cease to cumber; they fertilize.
by Ambrose Bierce

I'm Canadian. We didn't do half as much bad stuff to our Natives as the Americans did. But then that's completly besides the point.

My point was that those "glorious" revolutions that the Russians and Chinese did to get rid of their "nasty" fatcats lead to even more bloodshed and oppression. Remember Stalin? Remember Mao?

Anyone advocating their methods needs a fucking Reality Check.

Well could it be that Stalin and Mao just wanted to become the new nasty FatCats.
So, in that respect anyone advocating for using those methods of revolution could be considered fatcat wanabes?

See my comment below where I basically repeat your point. (I got here late.)

Question: is your health care system as horrible as all the scare stories we're being fed right now to keep our wonderful private insurance companies rolling in our dough?

A right-wing politican/propagandist let the truth slip out on the radio the other day: "There's no way a private insurance company can compete against the government and make a profit." I think that pretty much says it all.

Things are pretty crappy here in Quebec, but I hear Ontario handles things better. Waiting periods are ridiculously long, we're desperately trying to import new doctors to fill in the ranks, and many hospitals are in dire need of renovation.

But the worst part is that the various political parties are more interested in throwing blame about who's responsible then in actually trying to fix things.

I think it'd be pretty effective to simply, collectively ignore the bastards completely.

I don't know how to put it into words, so I can't press the idea, and again, it involves people deciding to work together, which as we all know thanks to the social workings of the "elite," there are far too many social wedges for that to happen, but I digress.

If everyone just kind of said, "Eh, fuck you" to the system and started doing something different, I think it'd be a pretty huge wrench in their gears. They wouldn't know what to think.

That part gets aittle tough to perform when even the IRS has a $7 mil yearly budget for weapons...

The solution is for people to get off their asses & make use of the system already in place to elect new people to run the country who'll pass better laws to keep the greedheads in place. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen either. Most people seem to be comfortable being part of the 'get-along gang.' (Remember that one?) Look how hard it is to set up some sort of health insurance plan in this country, with all the $$ spent on propaganda telling people any kind of serious reform is (booga-boogah!) 'socialism.'

Personally I think any attempt at a violent 'revolution' will be squashed like a bug with 95% of the population cheering the government on. And if by some chance an overthrow did succeed... guaranteed the most brutal, power-hungry people will be running the new system (see Nazi Germany, the Cambodian killing fields, Stalin, etc etc etc.): "democracy's for wimps, look where it got us; from now on I decide what goes, because I am the will of the people personified..."

To paraphrase The Who, "meet the new boss, worse than the old boss."

Read this if you want another take on the whole bailout buisness... http://market-ticker.denninger.net/ We need a Banking System, not specific banks, let them go bankrupt and sell their remaining assets at fire-sale prices to the banks that Didn't go all stupid.

Still, while an 'against the wall' revolution does sound nice and cathartic, you're still operating under a doomed assumption so many before you have been. The problem isn't the people in charge of the system, it's the system itself. 'Cleaning House' will work only for a little while, but if the new guys have the same level of power and authority as the old guys did and means to extend that then it'll all go back to Same-Shit, Different Day.

What was the name of that committee that Congress wanted to create to deal with potential domestic extremists by essentially patrolling their thoughts and actions before they actually acted upon them?