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*sigh* Yup. Don't feel I need to say anything. If you've seen Up, you've seen Coco. Just reverse the roles of the old man and the kid, replace "old man" with "dead man", "explorer" with "musician", "flying balloon house" with "stupid ethnic magical bullshit", "cute stupid dog with a talking collar" with "deformed stupid dog with some stupid ethnic magical bullshit," throw in a bunch of other stupid ethnic magical bullshit for good measure. . . You get the idea.
It's the exact same story as Up. If you saw Up, you will see the "twist" coming miles away -- will know who the "surprise villain" is within the first five minutes.
The only thing that surprised me? That they felt the need to even copy the part from Up where they kill the villain. Twice. They can't just have him show up in the Land of the Dead; they needed to throw in some "the dead can die" bullshit so they could kill him in the Land of the Dead too.
But no, it's not a COMPLETE rehash of Up. The rest of it, they shamelessly ripped off from Tim Burton's Corpse Bride. Albeit without taking any effort to try to understand the deeper meanings (or hell, any meaning at all) of the movie they were ripping off, as, despite being nearly identical on paper, Disney/Pixar somehow lands at the exact opposite end of the interpretive spectrum and presents the most backwards, nonsensical and counterproductive interpretation of any kind of afterlife that was not done so deliberately.
Again. . . They killed the villain. . . The villain that was already dead. . .
And the effect when a dead person "dies" is almost a dead ringer for the ending of Corpse Bride. But in Corpse Bride, it's meant to be symbolic of the fact that her burdens have been lifted and she is free to ascend into the beyond. It's strongly implied that the rest of the dead have similar issues (many of them clearly died violently) and are simply in no hurry to resolve them (because, hey, it's not like they have a deadline. *rimshot*).
Coco rips off Corpse Bride's appearance of the afterlife, but clearly does not understand any of the deeper meanings. The dead don't "find peace" or "ascend" -- they die. And as such, they are just as obsessed with all of the same petty trivialities they obsessed over in life.
Friggin' hated that movie. Almost as much as I hate knowing that Coco is going to claim yet another undeserved Best Animated Feature Oscar for Disney/Pixar, which will further encourage D/P to think they can continue to coast with this cut-and-paste bullshit, discourage all the other studios from trying since they get shafted no matter how hard they try, and further decrease the odds of me ever getting to see anything on the same level as Up or Zootopia ever again.
*looks down and sees that his chest is completely bare* Umm. . . Okay, now I'm definitely done.
It's the exact same story as Up. If you saw Up, you will see the "twist" coming miles away -- will know who the "surprise villain" is within the first five minutes.
The only thing that surprised me? That they felt the need to even copy the part from Up where they kill the villain. Twice. They can't just have him show up in the Land of the Dead; they needed to throw in some "the dead can die" bullshit so they could kill him in the Land of the Dead too.
But no, it's not a COMPLETE rehash of Up. The rest of it, they shamelessly ripped off from Tim Burton's Corpse Bride. Albeit without taking any effort to try to understand the deeper meanings (or hell, any meaning at all) of the movie they were ripping off, as, despite being nearly identical on paper, Disney/Pixar somehow lands at the exact opposite end of the interpretive spectrum and presents the most backwards, nonsensical and counterproductive interpretation of any kind of afterlife that was not done so deliberately.
Again. . . They killed the villain. . . The villain that was already dead. . .
And the effect when a dead person "dies" is almost a dead ringer for the ending of Corpse Bride. But in Corpse Bride, it's meant to be symbolic of the fact that her burdens have been lifted and she is free to ascend into the beyond. It's strongly implied that the rest of the dead have similar issues (many of them clearly died violently) and are simply in no hurry to resolve them (because, hey, it's not like they have a deadline. *rimshot*).
Coco rips off Corpse Bride's appearance of the afterlife, but clearly does not understand any of the deeper meanings. The dead don't "find peace" or "ascend" -- they die. And as such, they are just as obsessed with all of the same petty trivialities they obsessed over in life.
Friggin' hated that movie. Almost as much as I hate knowing that Coco is going to claim yet another undeserved Best Animated Feature Oscar for Disney/Pixar, which will further encourage D/P to think they can continue to coast with this cut-and-paste bullshit, discourage all the other studios from trying since they get shafted no matter how hard they try, and further decrease the odds of me ever getting to see anything on the same level as Up or Zootopia ever again.
*looks down and sees that his chest is completely bare* Umm. . . Okay, now I'm definitely done.
Category Artwork (Digital) / Abstract
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The Villain ''twist" or the relation "twist"? Even if you saw it coming a mile away, the implications of what a family member would do knowing that they're related to a murderer is an interesting one to dabble with (of course the movie couldn't go with that).
Aside from that, your complaint of "ethnic bullshit" isn't really a good excuse unless you are implying that their traditions are bullshit. Because I can assure you to them they aren't.
I never would have looked at the film in the lens of a reverse Up however and for that I'm thankful, it's nice to have dissenting opinions in order to learn (especially when those opinions have evidence to back them up), and with all the praise this movie has gotten, I doubt many a film critic would voice their opinion as strongly as yours.
I still very much liked the film, though I like many films, and watch a lot of bad movies to boot.
hope you can find a movie you like in the upcoming year! (and please let there not be another emoji movie)
Aside from that, your complaint of "ethnic bullshit" isn't really a good excuse unless you are implying that their traditions are bullshit. Because I can assure you to them they aren't.
I never would have looked at the film in the lens of a reverse Up however and for that I'm thankful, it's nice to have dissenting opinions in order to learn (especially when those opinions have evidence to back them up), and with all the praise this movie has gotten, I doubt many a film critic would voice their opinion as strongly as yours.
I still very much liked the film, though I like many films, and watch a lot of bad movies to boot.
hope you can find a movie you like in the upcoming year! (and please let there not be another emoji movie)
"The Villain ''twist" or the relation "twist"? Even if you saw it coming a mile away, the implications of what a family member would do knowing that they're related to a murderer is an interesting one to dabble with (of course the movie couldn't go with that)."
If it had been me writing the script, there wouldn't have been a villain, period. There would have been a character her certainly was villainous while he was alive, but instead of an epic confrontation in which he dies again, he would have just spilled his guts right on the spot, confessing all the many ways how he wasted his life -- all the horrible things he did for such stupid reasons -- and bemoaning how, all these generations later, they continue to define his existence -- how he has no descendants who remember him as a human being, yet simultaneously has been denied the peace of his "second death" because of the great legacy of total bullshit he left behind in turn.
"Aside from that, your complaint of "ethnic bullshit" isn't really a good excuse unless you are implying that their traditions are bullshit. Because I can assure you to them they aren't."
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said "ethnic bullshit." I said "ethnic MAGICAL bullshit." As in the bullshit comes, not from the traditions themselves, but from Pixar constantly using them as lazy plot devices, both as a source of conflicts and as solutions to said conflicts, often depicting them in such ways that are not even in the fucking ballpark of what actually is.
Do you know, for example, where Alebrijes appear in the folklore and/or traditions of the Day of the Dead? ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE!).
Saying Coco is a good introduction to the Day of the Dead is like saying Inside Out is an accurate representation of neurobiology.
If it had been me writing the script, there wouldn't have been a villain, period. There would have been a character her certainly was villainous while he was alive, but instead of an epic confrontation in which he dies again, he would have just spilled his guts right on the spot, confessing all the many ways how he wasted his life -- all the horrible things he did for such stupid reasons -- and bemoaning how, all these generations later, they continue to define his existence -- how he has no descendants who remember him as a human being, yet simultaneously has been denied the peace of his "second death" because of the great legacy of total bullshit he left behind in turn.
"Aside from that, your complaint of "ethnic bullshit" isn't really a good excuse unless you are implying that their traditions are bullshit. Because I can assure you to them they aren't."
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said "ethnic bullshit." I said "ethnic MAGICAL bullshit." As in the bullshit comes, not from the traditions themselves, but from Pixar constantly using them as lazy plot devices, both as a source of conflicts and as solutions to said conflicts, often depicting them in such ways that are not even in the fucking ballpark of what actually is.
Do you know, for example, where Alebrijes appear in the folklore and/or traditions of the Day of the Dead? ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE!).
Saying Coco is a good introduction to the Day of the Dead is like saying Inside Out is an accurate representation of neurobiology.
My apologies for misunderstanding "stupid ethnic magical bullshit", I falsely presumed that the belief in the existence of magic in other ethnicities was what was considered to be "stupid" and "bullshit", not that implementation of said magic being used in the film out of context was the root of the "bullshit".
The origin of the Alebrijes is an interesting one at that, and indeed they are not part of the Day of the Dead tradition (though with Disney's marketing empire they probably will now (ugh)).
As for the villain's "second death", I never saw it as a death (though I'm pretty sure others did). I thought it was very clear that the "second death" was when one is forgotten; so Ernesto de la Cruz isn't "dead" at the end of the movie or "one year later", but rather on his way to whatever hell the other corpses in Corpse Bride dragged Lord Barkis to (btw, LOVE that movie).
I agree that the idea of continued fame after death is really...odd.
Your idea for a film would make for a good movie, but Pixar (with Disney's hand up their ass) couldn't do that (maybe an indie filmmaker could get away with that, but with 10's of millions of dollars on the line, you can't be creative with the exec's). BTW there is a Twilight Zone episode about such a story (A Game of Pool).
"Saying Coco is a good introduction to the Day of the Dead is like saying Inside Out is an accurate representation of neurobiology."
While not a "good" introduction, presenting Mexican culture in a positive light in this day and age is better than none at all. And I totally agree that Inside Out was a...not good movie, and oversimplified things way too much for the sake of time and intended audience (and marketing (Disney+hand+ass)).
Thank you for the response.
The origin of the Alebrijes is an interesting one at that, and indeed they are not part of the Day of the Dead tradition (though with Disney's marketing empire they probably will now (ugh)).
As for the villain's "second death", I never saw it as a death (though I'm pretty sure others did). I thought it was very clear that the "second death" was when one is forgotten; so Ernesto de la Cruz isn't "dead" at the end of the movie or "one year later", but rather on his way to whatever hell the other corpses in Corpse Bride dragged Lord Barkis to (btw, LOVE that movie).
I agree that the idea of continued fame after death is really...odd.
Your idea for a film would make for a good movie, but Pixar (with Disney's hand up their ass) couldn't do that (maybe an indie filmmaker could get away with that, but with 10's of millions of dollars on the line, you can't be creative with the exec's). BTW there is a Twilight Zone episode about such a story (A Game of Pool).
"Saying Coco is a good introduction to the Day of the Dead is like saying Inside Out is an accurate representation of neurobiology."
While not a "good" introduction, presenting Mexican culture in a positive light in this day and age is better than none at all. And I totally agree that Inside Out was a...not good movie, and oversimplified things way too much for the sake of time and intended audience (and marketing (Disney+hand+ass)).
Thank you for the response.
Death is indeed a tricky subject. But it's also a very common one, and one to which neither Disney nor Pixar are strangers.
For Corpse Bride, the impression I'm given is that Lord Bakis is getting dragged back from whence all the others came, with it only being "Hell" because all the other souls know exactly what he is and have every intention of treating him as such. Beyond that, the only other among the dead who might consider it a "Hell" is the Corpse Bride herself due to the tragic nature of her death and afterlife (though the dead are sympathetic, so it's more of a limbo for her). Tim Burton himself has gone on the record that his intended theme was that death is good; that the afterlife is a good place because it is free of pain, hunger, and all the other assorted miseries we deal with in life.
One of my absolute favorite parts of Corpse Bride is how General Bonesapart's drinking buddy is another general wearing opposing colors. They were on opposing sides and both clearly died violently (one has a sword in his back, the other has a cannonball hole in his chest), but they don't even talk about it. They were enemies in life, but now that they're dead, it's moot. Like the lyrics say, "Die, die, we all pass away, but don't wear a frown 'cause it's really okay."
Which, actually, is a very common interpretation of the afterlife. Theresa Caputo, the (alleged) Long Island Medium, is often asked why her messages from the dead are positive 100% of the time, and she has always replied that the dead often feel liberated -- are free of pain and suffering -- and that her messages are always positive because the dead only reach out to her at all to tell their loved ones to stop mourning them and/or let them know they're still around.
Hell, even the freakin' Casper the Friendly Ghost movie went the extra mile in saying that the dead only become ghosts when they have strong connections to the world and only for however long it takes to resolve them.
Which makes it all the more jarring that Pixar of all companies could botch the subject so horribly and create an afterlife whose residents are encouraged to be even more petty and underhanded, even when they were clearly using Corpse Bride as their inspiration (hardly surprising considering Pixar's Joe Ranft was the executive producer). Every time they made a sight gag involving them being skeletons, all I could do was sigh, shake my head and wonder why they didn't rip off the good writing too.
For Corpse Bride, the impression I'm given is that Lord Bakis is getting dragged back from whence all the others came, with it only being "Hell" because all the other souls know exactly what he is and have every intention of treating him as such. Beyond that, the only other among the dead who might consider it a "Hell" is the Corpse Bride herself due to the tragic nature of her death and afterlife (though the dead are sympathetic, so it's more of a limbo for her). Tim Burton himself has gone on the record that his intended theme was that death is good; that the afterlife is a good place because it is free of pain, hunger, and all the other assorted miseries we deal with in life.
One of my absolute favorite parts of Corpse Bride is how General Bonesapart's drinking buddy is another general wearing opposing colors. They were on opposing sides and both clearly died violently (one has a sword in his back, the other has a cannonball hole in his chest), but they don't even talk about it. They were enemies in life, but now that they're dead, it's moot. Like the lyrics say, "Die, die, we all pass away, but don't wear a frown 'cause it's really okay."
Which, actually, is a very common interpretation of the afterlife. Theresa Caputo, the (alleged) Long Island Medium, is often asked why her messages from the dead are positive 100% of the time, and she has always replied that the dead often feel liberated -- are free of pain and suffering -- and that her messages are always positive because the dead only reach out to her at all to tell their loved ones to stop mourning them and/or let them know they're still around.
Hell, even the freakin' Casper the Friendly Ghost movie went the extra mile in saying that the dead only become ghosts when they have strong connections to the world and only for however long it takes to resolve them.
Which makes it all the more jarring that Pixar of all companies could botch the subject so horribly and create an afterlife whose residents are encouraged to be even more petty and underhanded, even when they were clearly using Corpse Bride as their inspiration (hardly surprising considering Pixar's Joe Ranft was the executive producer). Every time they made a sight gag involving them being skeletons, all I could do was sigh, shake my head and wonder why they didn't rip off the good writing too.
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