YESSS! thank you for this!

JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP! JUMP!

But that's haaaaaard! D=

I think people actually *are* unwilling to put in the effort most of the time, since foreshortening takes practice to get right. I'm with you nevertheless, we totally need more viewing angles in our art.

Well, I'm sure it's because some people have a lot of trouble with perspective. It's harder for some than you think. I know somebody that's trying very hard to draw characters' backsides, much less a bird's eye view. >.>

Some people have trouble with anatomy, and it's a hard skill to master. But whenever anyone talks about improving their art it's always about the anatomy and never about... I guess you could call them more photographic skills.

Probably because the anatomy is <i>that</i> bad. :P

You make a good point though. Perspective is important too. Just harder to pull off for quite a few.

I think one usually goes before the other. Once you've got your proportions down pat (usually with a lot of those side-ons), you get a better sense of how they're going to look at those weird, delicious angles.

This is awesome and insane, but not completely unreasonable.

most people do it because it's eye level, like you're having a discussion with the character. it doesn't make sense to be looming above them, lest the scene itself calls for it. it would just be weird and unnecessary.

Stylistically I think it's more like you're watching them parade about on a stage, which is just as weird when you really think about it.

i'm still think it's more of an eye level thing, but then again it really depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

My point here, if I'm making a point at all and not just rambling incoherently ^^ is that the whole stage/photoshoot perspective is really, really common, way more common than anything else*, and that this is a curious phenomenon. Theoretically it IS easier, but so is Drawing the Marvel Way. Why do we (furries) spend a ridiculous of time and effort on mastering anatomy and completely ignore perspective and foreshortening?

I'm all for drawing for fun, I'm not going to be an art snob! However, I do the stage/photoshoot thing way too much, and better artists than me do the stage/photoshoot thing way too much as well. Those of us who've got the skillz and confidence to move beyond the 2D tapestryesque perspective into a more cinematic 3D world probably should, right?

*unless you're a macro furry!

i'm all for stretching the boundaries of one's abilities. i sincerely hope anyone serious about their art, even if it's just for themselves and for fun, would want to push their abilities and explore new options be it trying a new medium, a new subject, or in this case a new angle. however, i personally think people should also look at intent as well as "doing something different because what they're doing now is common and played out". to reiterate, foreshortening something for the sake of foreshortening is just silly to me. it's a personal way of looking at things really, and i'm not disagreeing with you. i knew someone who always drew these upshots of i guess superheros or something, with their hands coming towards the viewer. a less common shot than most of the "on stage" shots you see most people do, but no less of a crutch. if all your pics are of upshots with big hands coming towards the viewer than it's really no greater artistic venture than anyone else. perhaps their art would stand out in the sea of on stage characters, but it didn't make their art any less stagnant.

thinking beyond the 50's pin up is always a plus. i hope everyone explores different options in their works. but there's something off putting about lack of intent to me. i don't know if i'm being overly intricate with how i'm observing this issue, but i just feel there's a big difference between creating art with, say, a strange new angle with intent, and creating art with a strange new angle because the stage look is passe (even though it worked for that piece and the new angle is just awkward.)

i'm rambling, i took very long to say nothing at all it seems. i do agree mostly, and see where you're coming from.

however, i personally think people should also look at intent as well as "doing something different because what they're doing now is common and played out".

Well, exactly. People should look at intent while they're doing something that is cliché too, right? :)

it works both ways sure. but since the topic of your post was less stage more foreshortening, my gut reaction is that without intent, it's just another visual gimmick. again, i'm not touting stagnation in one's art, but to avoid traps which don't benefit your art just because you were guilt'ed into doing it a different way. sometimes stage works, sometimes foreshortening works. that's all.

that being said though, people need to be less scared about trying new things. nothing ventured nothing gained; foreshortening would seem less scary and difficult the more you do it.

Oh, maybe I didn't make my point very clearly! "Less stage more foreshortening" isn't quite it... The example I drew is a pretty extreme one among many that break away from the mold. Anything that's not laid out along a straight line parallel to the screen is pretty legit by my books.

And almost always facing the viewer. You almost never see characters from any other angle, to the point where you don't even know what some of them *look like* from behind.

The ones that always strike me as particularly weird are where you have a character standing around, against a plain white background, with a hard-on. It's like they were put in a featureless void (THX-1138 prison?) and had decided to jack off to pass the time, when suddenly the cameraman showed up. ;)

Very cool and subtle way to bring up a point.

Ffffsh, it's not that hard. ^^

Of course, I am pretty sure we agree on this point. :)

Well put. ^..^ I've tried to get more play in the 'stock still pose' when I commission, I'll have to suggest more play in the perspective as well. ^..^

I would venture to say that a lot of people who commission probably don't care in general for perspective play since they're more likely after a pretty portrait than anything.

Why do they want a pretty portrait though, as opposed to anything else? I have no idea where to even start with that one.

I'm not entirely sure. It may just be that artists prefer to take the safe road when it comes to that sort of thing dealing with people. I've no idea really.

This is good thing to keep in mind! I am so often lazy. :)

Meme potential... also, awesome font-shortening.

Sorry I am rather guilty of this all the time. Also I have like 50 sketches I'm gonna sketchdump at some point and they all suffer this too. x-D

As Strong Bad says; "NOT GOOD ENOUGH F MINUS MINUS!"

I blame videogames though...fucking mario stole my perspective imagination, just to slap it in my face in his 3D games. >0<

I definitely could use more variety. I'm just scared of how horrible things will be, so I end up not posting a lot of stuff.

Side-scrolling video games, mayhap?

I love you forever.

The afore-mentioned "pretty portrait" problem - especially when dealing with commissioners - likely stems from the fact that many furs have more than one character, that they can only get one or two pictures of each, and that the "best" way to show a character (markings, bodystyle, height, species, gender, etc.) is through what ends up being in effect a portion of a character sheet.

the whole figure fits into the frame, there is no distortion from perspective (see "show a character") - everything is relatively straightforward. Which certainly makes it "easier" for beginning artists (and yes, comics have something to do with this too. I mean, how often do we see a bird's eye view of Charlie Brown?)

Well, Charles Schulz, bless his soul, was not a terribly good artist. Fortunately, being a good artist isn't actually a requirement for having a successful comic strip -- you can make up for it with good writing.

Besides, a bird's-eye view of Charlie Brown would just be a circle. ;)

swatcher, all i gotta say is your completly awesome!

I do enjoy a bottom up perspective now and again