LMFAAAAAAAAAO I LOVED THIS

IT IS MA'AM! XD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArM2KKAf6vE

HE EVEN ITCHED HIS BALLS ON THE WAY OUT

By itched I meant scratched

Nah, you're right. As long as you acknowledge trans people for the gender they identify as, that being male or female, then there's no problem here. None of this made up gender shit, but one can have a body that doesn't align with their brain is all I'm gonna say.

oh, I do! Once they get the surgery done, that is. I actually admire those who get their sex changed. It's a brave thing to do :)

I'd disagree with surgery part. If it were cheap and readily available I wouldn't go against ya, but it's expensive as all fuck, most people just plain can't afford it. Some are too scared to do any kind of surgery, so that's acceptable in my mind as well. Personally, I live full time female and have for a while now with no surgery, as much as I wish I could do it. But I'm at least glad that there are others who can agree that gender identity bullshit has gone too far, but can still accept genuine trans people.

For me it depends, really. If you were born male but you behave, look and dress like a girl, you're a girl. It's simple as that.

But every time I remember about transgender people, I picture that one student in my class. He was using a miniskirt, a tight tank top and high heels. It'd be fine if he didn't have a long beard, was hairy as all hell and super fat. Oh yeah and he had a double chin too.

That was disgusting.

I've seen plenty of people like that, and yeah, it's crazy offputting. Those kinds do it for attention and give actual trans people a bad name. Just sad and annoying.

Like I said, people who are actually trans are good in my book. You guys rock.

LOL I can't tell my trans friends this, nor the fact its impossible to transition from one gender to another, unless you're a frog irl. I just have to watch as they hack up and poison their bodies with hormones.

But yeah for all practical purposes there are only two genders. Hermaphrodites, despite having both genitals, only have one functioning set, if any at all.

You should tell them. Maybe trying to put some sense into their heads that are too busy thinking about what the 98th gender will be named.

No, but seriously. Not even in nature you find more than 2, maybe 3 genders if you consider herms a third gender. It just doesn't exist

I've tried, but leftists are very stubborn. XD never thought I'd know anyone more stubborn than me

Its simple biology. We learned this shit in grade school. Its not even theory. Its proven fact! How can anyone so brazenly deny science?

well, we all know the earth is flat. How can people think it's round? You can't even leave objects on top of a sphere, they fall off




[\sarcasm]

there are some fish that start life as male and mature to be female and vice versa

We're talking humans, not fish

doesn't make the point irrelevant either way

How so?

"Not even in nature you find more than 2, maybe 3" was stated above that hence why it was brought up

Well it's a little bit obvious of a statement though.
At least I can say I know i'll never meet the 100% female status

You can't change facts unless you're Bill Nye of course and then go with the mainstream politically correct position xP

Omg you still come to FA! I thought you left this site for good

Naw, i still sneak around here every once in a while haha you can add me on facebook if you want

I don't use facebook man. but Telegram works for me

https://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15468
People can be born with certain brain structures that may resemble more so of the opposite gender, or even exhibit a mosaic of traits that don't neatly fit into defined "male" or "female" brains. Thus they may feel that their identity falls in between. Personally I think the idea behind the non-binary movement is a social one regarding how we see gender in a sense of one's mind, and I don't think there's anything wrong with people living a life that they feel most comfortable with. Personally I'm pretty cool with all this stuff, but we all have our own opinions and I respect yours

Now we just need more papers that prove or disprove this. Some papers tend to be ignored while others don't.

If I'm.not wrong there are 100 papers denying climate change (from dubious sources) and 15000 confirming it

You can never be sure enough in science o:

True. Nothing is a dogma in science... But we can at least agree with what's the more plausible theory in whatever topic

Yee. Gender identity should be explored in more depth but from where we stand right now we can safely regard things like climate change as scientific fact

NUH, I'M AN EVIL BIGOT

Guy is clearly a homophobe that needs to be purged 👌👌👌👌👌👌✌

Love the shitty photoshop.

Adds value to memes!

I bet you were hoping for an explosion of anger and sjw swelling.

But yes, I agree with you. There are two.
Apart from rare genetical conditions, when you are a bit of both(hermaphroditism), but those guys are sterile and have lots of health issues.

Aw man. I kinda was. But what I really wanted was to see people.actively debating this with reasonable arguments from both sides.It'd be cool.

I could tell you a story how my colleague almost was put to jail because of one of those trans people being an idiot. But god, that's a long story. Do you have a discord?

I do. It's Fahl Demonwing#9972.

I'm not sure if you need to use an underscore or not

ok I'm kinda sad there's no flame war here after all this time (don't ask me how I missed this one)

I think I'm just gonna leave a fave and a "there are only 2 genders" sticker around. I can't eat popcorn this way

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/7a/dd/7c/.....91e07ff69f.jpg

I actually wanted someone to try to change my mind. But a flame war would do just fine

uh, b/c my feefees said so, and if you disagree, I'll report you to the Thought Police for being literally a nazi.

pseudo-relevant meme in the same format I made a while back

P.S. use higher resolution photos, you pixelating bigot

Who cares for high resolution when you can use 200x200 and resize the image to make the quality worse?

Also, nice meme

because you're not representing the DIVERSITY of pixel properly, you racist.


thancc

Fuck, I'm pixelphobic, so what?

that's at least triple racist

interesting 2 cents you've thrown out here.
Though I do agree there are only two genders. you do have some warped views on when things are allowed considered their desired gender that they're transitioning too.

I'm going to say this starts at the point the person in question is considered "passing" by total strangers regardless of surgery.

that being said there are times despite there being only being two genders where you kinda do need to just state you're trans such as dating sites/app's because that's only asking for trouble

Oh yeah, being depicted as trans is perfectly acceptable - they won't be staying at that intermediary stage for too long. But genderfluid? Gender whatever? 58 genders? Oh, god...

no i'm strongly against any form of self diagnosed crap.
At least here in Australia there's through testing and long waiting lists that you need to do and pass to even get to someone to talk about HRT.

It's not like some places where you can go I want this item i'll buy it and self medicate

Yeah I'm all for defending people who want to transition, you guys are super brave! I actually admire all of you.

But that self diagnosed crap? fuck that. It's pure bullshit.

hence why I made this post - I only believe in the existence of males and females, transgender or not. How the hell can you have a gender that nature doesn't even allow you to be?

not to make it sound like its on the same level as veteran's or anything but its basically like stolen valor why you just slap a few icon's on your page and think that's all it takes to claim these things like it makes you unique or something.

what I hate personally is people that make being trans who they are not part of what makes them I consider myself fairly normal (Aside from being on here) and I just happen to be trans it isn't the whole thing that represents me or defines me like some of these disgusting SJW types others have linked here and it just creates a bad example for genuine people that jsut want to blend in.

When these ones that want to wear a dress and have a full beard in public complain about pronouns and act like the poor people trying to talk with them are in the wrong... like the It's MA'AM person for example, sorry to say pronouns are EARNED and if you're getting the wrong ones you're just not trying hard enough and you're setting a poor example for others by freaking out about it.

like "it's MA'AM" person i've personally copped flack from, because of that video then people like to hit the whole community with broad strokes because of a few crazies, like watching it gives me second hand embarrassment and over what someone misgendering you... sorry lead by example rather than whipping back with your victimhood status BS

Sorry for not getting back to your earlier. I was on a trip skiing and couldn't reply before.

But yeah you're totally right. I had a (male) friend who started calling himself a girl out of the blue, saying that he was even letting "his hair grow". Fuck that. It made me really salty back then and he changed so much that we ended not even talking much before that.

Like I've said before, I strongly encourage trans people who don't shout to everyone they're trans and are just trying to blend in. You said it right, pronouns are earned.

It's so good to find people like you, seriously. Always reminds me that trans people aren't all idiots.

it's also the fact the crazy ones are loud and want to make scenes so even being in their camp they're quick to shun and throw you out and say "well you have passing privilege"
it's like bitch i put effort in but i still live in a tiny town so i deal with maybe more backlash

Again, it's good to hear from a trans person that you have some good sense and condemn all the stupid thing these guys do. (+1)

there's crazy on both sides of the fence really

There are only 0 genders. Change your mind.

I'm shocked. I've reached enlightement

And now no one can make fun of your weight.

Or my height!

And now we'll need weights to keep you down.

I've listened to ex non-binary people and they admit they called themselves that to feel special. Kinda sucks when you have good friends who identify as that u_u

AHHAHAHAH IS THIS FOR REAL? OH MY GOD

Words of wisdom

You're goddamn right.

No need to change my mind if I'm right, correct?

You have achieved the rank of Meme Lord.

I'm not worthy of such title. It's been quite some time since I made a quality meme

Lol I had former college friends who were awesome, then they became "non Binary" and "genderfluid" and became the most arrogant cunts I have ever met, they also invelidate my depression because I am a "white cismale", and they believe in the privilege conspiracy.
When they discovered I was a furry they blocked me after they insulted me.

To be fair, from my experience, most people who have these unconventional beliefs have zero tolerance for people with different beliefs, even when fights are not happening. It's just like those people who say imitating accents is racist, yet, imitating British, Australian, Scottish, etc, accents are not.

I do wonder: do you genuinely want your mind changed, or are you just stating your belief in this meme format?

I'm always open to new ideas and arguments that can sound convincing. While I do believe trans people exist, I simply cannot understand how it is possible to have a gender that doesn't exist in nature. And because of that, I still can't believe gender is a spectrum

It's nice to hear where you're coming from. I can understand what you're getting at, and even thought similarly at one point. It was biology that convinced me otherwise!

Since you already understand binary transgender, I'm sure you have heard that sex and gender are different things. The thing is, I don't agree.

To start off, sex is not a single trait. It's defined by genitalia, chromosomes, hormones, and secondary sex characteristics. And since brain scans have shown trans women to have brains like cis women and trans men like cis men, that implies that gender is inherent. The brain is a biological, physical organ, and therefore, gender is the brain's sex. The only thing separate from all this is gender roles, being a given society's expectations for a certain gender.

So, if gender is a part of sex, then how do non-binary genders exist? Because sex itself is a spectrum. Intersex is an umbrella term for conditions including, but not limited to, ambiguous genitalia, chromosomes other than XY or XX (XO, XXY, etc), and abnormal puberty. If all these in-betweens can occur outside the brain, is it so strange for gender, the brain-sex, to sometimes be in-between?

It helps to not consider a third (or in some cultures, fourth or fifth!) gender as a separate, distinct classification, but rather as points in-between male and female.

As for my own experience, I have dysphoria "both ways." (Being considered male or female both feel wrong and grating.) Yeah, it's inconvenient as hell, but transition to be physically more androgynous and knowing accepting people has lessened it drastically. I can function in society now, yay! The fact that strangers don't get it is more annoying than actually painful these days.

I sure as hell wouldn't have chosen this if it were a choice. I saw someone above saying they knew people claiming to be non-binary in order to be special. I'm sure those people exist, but I can't imagine what that's like. I just wish my in-between-ness were recognised and normal in society. I dream of a nice X marker on my ID, gender-neutral language (English is good for this, but I also speak German and like learning languages in general, and many are much more gendered), being able to wear what I want, and never having to think about gender!

So that's my view, thanks for reading. It means a lot that you're willing to hear me out.

I finally remembered to reply to this 1981, sorry for taking so long.

First of all, thank you for not throwing stones at me - You know me, I respect everyone, even though I don't always agree with their point of view, so having someone to talk about this without being called a transphobe and being immediately blocked is really nice. Thanks again.

Now towards my rebutal. Yes, I do know the difference between sex and gender. But I never agreed with the argument that gender is a spectrum or a social construct. This is because in nature, animals act based on their instincts - you can clearly see animals like lions and birds where males and females have different roles. The same can be observed in primates and, assuming we evolved from them, brings the idea that gender and sex are pretty much tied to one another. Yes, as humans and more "cognitively advanced" this idea could be challenged, but it never made a lot of sense to me. There's also the fact that in nature you can only observe really 2 genders - at least as far as I know. I could be wrong, I'm not a researcher. I don't see sex as a spectrum because these people that are XO, XXY, etc, are the exception, not the rule - and they tend to have deformities that, unfortunately, tend to impact their quality of life.

As for research on the gender area - you probably know much better than me. I do not read scientific papers on the matter, so regarding brain scans, I find it nice that these differences are being discovered. I know there are visible differences between male and female brains, the way they behave, are stimulated, etc., but had no idea transgender people also had different brains.

As for your gender dysphoria - I can imagine how hard that can be. I don't think I'll ever be able to know how you feel, but I can imagine it's indeed tough. I think in ~20 more years, if things continue going the way they are, it shouldn't be an issue you're gonna have to deal with. I know it's not something that we can choose. And I might be talking a lot of shit now, but have you ever tried to just "conform"? Wouldn't it be less painful this way? I know it'd be a way to kill your identity and I know very well identity is a very serious thing in developed countries.

One thing to keep in mind is that my primary language - Portuguese - is heavily gendered. Even objects are gendered. It's really hard, if not impossible, for me to imagine something or someone that's "genderless" or "genderfluid". I don't think I'll ever get it, I'll just learn to nod and move on.
Thanks again for posting. I'll wait eagerly for a reply.

Also sorry for the incredibly late response. Got caught up in life stuff.

For one, it turns out I was wrong about brain differences in men and women. Heard from a friend reading an article and also when I was trying to to research on it. But you're right, many species have differing innate roles based on sex (and as someone who spent last year doing little more than watching wild quail, I know this from experience, hah), but - as I've read - humans are not one of them. Neither are crows. No innate roles, that is, not no innate gender/sex identity. That still exists, of course, and I'm pretty sure science still doesn't know where it comes from (would love to know though), but I think culture really influences it. Adds connotations and expectations to what's already biologically (in the brain + the rest of the body) there. Well, being a scientific person myself, part of me wants to find and provide detailed studies, but honestly, I don't care enough to prove myself anymore. (And I decided not to go into biology, anyway.) I just want to live my life. I'm an introspective and intuitive person; I know who I am most of the time.

Well, I do think being nonbinary is like a deformity. Sounds insulting, but it's caused me a lot of distress in the forms of both physical and social dysphoria. But this distress is curable in the forms of physical transition and/or social acceptance, depending on where someone's discomfort lies. For me it is/was both.

Well, conforming might be nice if it were that simple. But I feel immensely better when I'm not conforming. When I'm just being myself. It's important for one to be able to be themself and also to have people that support them. But it's hard to have both. People usually come out when the pain of not being themselves is worse than the pain of rejection. When being oneself is worth the possible rejection. What I really want (and my nonbinary friends agree) is for being nonbinary to be normal. I'm a weirdo. I have weird interests and tastes, sure. But I don't want my gender or body to be considered weird. I'm just a creature, a human like everyone else.

As for language, I understand. I also speak a gendered language, so in that, what really matters is not the pronouns/nouns/etc (after all, both he and she are wrong and therefore both are equally okay, hah) friends use, but that they know who I am and respect that. They usually just avoid gendered terms when possible (it's easier in German than in a Romance language.) I'm really grateful English has "they" though!

You took the time to listen and try to understand, and that's what really matters. Thanks!

No worries! I'm actually very happy that I consider to know you enough to call you an acquaintance (though even this might still be a bit too much!) and you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how happy I am to have a civil conversation with someone who's "on the other side". Seriously, so far, I'm usually met with a block button and that's where things end. I genuinely believe dialogue is the key to solve many issues and sadly our generation seems to hate discussing and talking about important/polarizing topics in general.

Well, either way, I have to admit I'm no specialist when it comes to differences in biology either, but you're right, culture does play an important role - I talk to a great deal of people from different countries and people from X country tend to behave/think like Y. I attribute this to culture and gendered roles are definitely part of it, too.

As for conforming - I always thought conforming was the easy way and hearing this from you is actually super interesting. I never expected that conforming would be more painful than not. Clearly, however, social acceptance is a completely different beast. I think we'll get there, but it might take a few decades or centuries - I definitely do not see things changing faster than this. Changes in culture take a long, long time to happen.

Finally, for the language - I'm glad to see that language isn't an issue to you. I see a lot of people wanting to make radical changes to language and all I can think of is how much harder learning a language or simply not being able to make any assumptions whatsoever as being harmful.

Once more, thanks for commenting here. I'm looking forward to your next reply

This has been really great for me, too! I have some trust issues and stuff, so to be able to have a civil conversation with someone who disagrees with me on something that's very important to me and also a controversial topic in this day and age... wow. You're right, polarization is at a high now. It's really frustrating for me to see so many other people my age, who have mostly similar beliefs and values to me (!), fighting fire with fire or shutting down any option for discussion.

Definitely - regardless of culture, I'm a pretty extreme example of individualism because of my stubbornness/strong-willed independence and then also isolation in my teen years (finally not as afraid of meeting people now, yay!) When it comes to collectivism and individualism, I don't see one as better than the other (individualism can be very lonely and cold), but I think my personality is better suited for that individualistic freedom. So, in terms of LGBTQ acceptance, I'm very grateful for the situation I was born into in.

Oh man, as a linguistics major, I could go on about how language can't exactly be intentionally changed, yet at the same time, it is always changing, and sometimes, if it's culturally important enough, some intentional changes do actually succeed. And about how pronouns are a closed class in English and other Indo-European languages, so that's why it feels so unnatural to modify them, whereas new verbs (an open class) catch on very quickly, such as "Googling." So yes, I doubt many if any "neopronouns" will catch on in English (since it already has singular they and the rest of grammatical gender was lost centuries ago), but in more gendered languages, cultural pressure may allow for the closed classes to be (very) gradually modified. But this is pure speculation on my part! I often talk with my friend about what will happen in German for gender neutral language. It may take a long, long time, but it seems inevitable to me. Language adapts to what we need to speak about, and gender-neutral/nonbinary topics are being discussed more and more.

Again, sorry for the late reply! Finally got a break from school and was online here a bit more.

there are only 2 sexes there are lots of gender thay are not the same thing

Oh, I'm aware of that. But I still can't believe how several genders are possible

same tbh

but people can do what thay want so long as it dose not hurt anybody

I wouldn't say whatever they want otherwise we get things that happened in Rainfurrest 2015, but mostly, yeah. I personally have nothing against people who say they're whatever gender. I just can't wrap my head around it.

its ok

you have 2 brain cells change my mind

gender and sex are not the same there are only two sexes there are lots of genders

I agree they are the same. I don't agree there are more than 2 genders. Maybe 3

but there are

there is literal evidence https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar.....es/PMC5824932/

I am very glad you have sent a really good article my way. I will be honest and say I have not read the entire thing - I am having a busy week, but I have transferred the file to my Kindle, so I will give it a read ASAP :) It's always welcome to receive scientific articles to read.

I liked many of the articles proposed by the author, but there are a few problems with this article

1 - It was posted in a journal with a very low impact factor (1.6), compared to more prestigious journals, such as Nature, with an impact factor of (69.5). This means any content published in Nature is much more reliable than content published in journals with a lower impact factor.

2 - The article reads more like a review and an opinion piece than factual research. The author also used sources such as wikipedia (!!!) to do his research.

3 - The author has used several of his previous articles as a source. This can indicate very strong bias to one side.

We can always ask ourselves - if multiple genders are real, how come this is not expressed in other living organisms? This is a problem that was also raised by the author of the article you sent me and that he failed to answer himself. Even in societal organisms, multiple genders cannot be observed and more often than not many animals have very well defined gender (male and female) roles.

I am loving to discuss this with you. I would love to keep this going.

nah you are to dumb

I typed all this just to get a 5-word reply? -_- aw man. That's fine. I'll be here if you change your mind

whatever

hermaphrodites exists, that counts as a gender, despite being "limited" to a vast array of plants and simpler species (such as snails), there are also the least developes cratures that reproduces via mitosys (or a variant), making them genderless

...

Did i do it? what's my prize?

Oh, that's absolutely correct, when it comes to non-human species. But true hermaphrodites in humans are extremely rare.

As for genderless organisms - you are absolutely correct, too. I won't ever disagree with that! The tricky part is applying this logic to humans.

As for the prize I'm not sure. I never intended to have a prize available, this was more of an open-discussion thing. Discussing things that people normally don't feel safe to talk about. I'm 100% open for civilized discussions and had some nice people to talk to, overall!

what about the fact that human hermaphrodites have oddly developed genitalia, tissue that forms the penis and testes during fetal stage are the same that forms the vagina, you cannot have both the cake and eat it...

MFW to this post

Surprised someone famous like you stumbled upon my page. But yeah, the comments weren't a shitshow

Always have been only two, since humans are sexually dimorphic.

Pretending otherwise just makes someone miserable, prone to self-harm, and targets for some really depraved individuals.

Yeah. I respect people who are non-binary, but I don't really believe in the 2+ gender narrative. It doesn't even make sense from a biological or even societal standpoint.

Non-binary doesn't make logical sense either. Binary and non-binary is still a binary. Two options.

Best to consider it an attention-seeking tactic.

Truth