Good lord, man! Have you no shame?? >:O

Seriously, tho, it's like while the debate was still raging, you snuck away and combined the best bits of everybody's suggestions, to create this bit of awesomeness. ^^

Now you need to take this and show it to everyone and be all innocent-like and say, "Uh, hai der, gize! Is this what you were thinking of?" ;)

Me? Shame? What is this "shame" you speak of? I know not of this concept of "shame"... >,>

Hehe, that's kinda exactly what happened, actually. I was up at 7 in the morning from the previous night, saw the concept art and while trying to explain it, was like "You know, it's easier if I just show him what I mean"...

And there ya go. ;)

That really looks amazing, JT! Nice going!! Hopefully  german-shepherd will like it, too!

Apparently he does, which makes me very happy! :)

His logo now looks a ton better than mine. Curse this "Get better as you progress" thing. >,<

Wow. Better than at least five actual NBA logos. Great job!

Which five? Hehe.

The Clippers...

Clippers... Lakers... Rockets... Pacers... Thunder... Sixers...

Knicks.... ;)

Heh, yeah, them too! XD

That's great.... D:

A little confused about the sad face icon you used..... but thanks.

I'm not sad. Just turn your head to left side :B

ACTUALLY.... THAT looks like a GREAT combination between the two best logos he had. Did you flag down  german-shepherd at all to have him take a look?

Thanks a lot! ^___^

As you can tell from the below comments, he found it. ;)

That's awesome dude!!!! I LOVE how you combined the moon, the mountain and the basketball all at once. And the starry sky is a BIG bonus!!

Thank you JT! THIS will be the Howlers logo! ^^

And it is now on the website.

Cool! Thanks!

Awesome! I'm very glad you like it! It was thanks to your ideas I was able to make it! :D

Hope I didn't step on your toes any, if you were intending to make the actual logo.

Yeah, I'm glad I was able to help. ^^

Not at all, dude. As a matter of fact, you did a huge favour and exceeded my expectations. :3 Thank you again for helping my team out. ^^ Very much appreciated.

No problem! Hopefully next time the Howlers play the Bikers or one of my other teams, they will remember how I helped them out, hehehe. ;)

hehe, yeah. I should design a logo for the Bikers sometime. I know my dad owns some Sturgis shirts, so I can try to find a nice inspiration. ;)

I have a pretty good idea of what I would do for a logo, but it would actually take some serious drawing to get it right, so I haven't chosen to tackle it yet. I've also got one for the Whips, but I have the same problem, heh. ;)

Though I'd be interested to at least see what your ideas are. Maybe they'd inspire me again. :D

Cool! ^^ I'll try then.

This is kinda cool i hope you have portfolio

Not of logos... I have a porfolio of other things though. ^^

You would be surprised, create some logo's and have a portfolio. Their are companies out there that look out for that kind of thing arf.

wow very nice!

Thankies! ^^

awesome! =3

Thanks!

I can actually make those into decals if your interested =3

Oh cool! I'll keep that in mind. :)

Ok, I have to lodge a complaint. Why is someone not from Montana making an FBA team for a state/Country they don't reside in? I mean, I live in Montana, I pay taxes in Montana, I work for the state of Montana, I really don't like someone from not Montana making a team for my state without really discussing it with anyone who lives there.

You........ DO realize that this is a completely fictional, non-commercial creation, right? O,o

This team doesn't affect actual living people. It doesn't need tax dollars for arenas or advertise to actual residents. It's FICTION.

Personal creations of fiction don't need to pass a special vote from residents of the state for the right to exist in a make believe universe made up of talking animals. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

It doesn't mean that people won't take offense to works of fiction.

But why would anyone take offense? It's not like the logo/team implies anything negative about the state at all.

To understand how it's offensive, you'd have to know what's been going on in Montana since the 1970's.

Well since I don't why don't you explain it to me?

Or rather, since I can read your comment below, explain to me how a harmless fictional sports team which is not used in any way for profit or to demean anyone is "taking advantage" of a state with low population? Do you even understand what the FBA is even about?

Again, tell me why you're so offended over a fictional team using the name "Montana." How exactly is the state being "taken advantage of"?

Ok, if they want to create personal fiction, why not do it with the state/province they're from or living in currently rather than ripping off other places? Why the name Howlers? Could they not come up with a much better name?

So is your issue that you don't like the name Howlers? If so, why would your one opinion on it being not the best name be grounds to change it? Do you really think that 100% of people from the state should approve of the name before somebody decides to use it in their own work of fiction, which is no way negative towards people of that state or anyone else?

Why would the person who created the team name or logo need to reside in Montana? What relevance would that have at all? Does a person who creates a furry sports league purely for fun need to have lived in each place or hire someone from each place for there to be a team from that area? I'm really not understanding why this upsets you.

so, just to understand your complaint here..Are you suggesting that Any work of creation, music, art, writing..the creator Cannot use any place they are not from?

So, like Stephen King writing stories that take place in Seattle, even though he's from Maine..is a big nono?

Or someone writing a song about Boston, who's Never stepped foot in the city? Or that Author that wrote all those stories of all these places [Hemmingway was it?] That he's never seen in his life? Are you suggesting that is not allowed?

Sorry, but you have No Right at all to make such a claim. Not on this. If you REALLY want to push your balls to the wall though? Then I suggest you also go after Fantacy Football, baseball, hockey, and every other fantasy sports that does the Same Exact Thing as the FBA is doing now. and Those are all Mainstream, not even furry.

you may live in Montana dear, but you Don't own the creative rights to the land, the state, the government there of, or any of that.

King lived in Maine and 99% of his stories were about Maine. The hotel he based the novel The Shining off of was a real hotel in Colorado that King visited for inspiration.

For people who don't live in Montana and know what's gone on for the past 50 years when dealing with people who are non-residents taking advantage of a state with a low population, it's something you will never understand.

Kindly do NOT tell me what I can and cannot understand hun. you do not know me, or where I have lived or what I have been through ok?

Now, back to the topic at hand. You are suggesting that money is being made off of the people of your state. Which is not the case at all. [in case you're wondering, it's when you suggested that the people of your great state is being taken advantage of.]

So, you have the floor. Explain to me. Make me Understand [since you Assume that I Don't]

Oh and since you're chopping out numbers here, and i AM a very major king fan, while Most of his stories take place in Maine, A lot more than 1 percent have taken place in Other places.

And there are Far more examples other than Stephen King.

I'm sorry, but unless you can provide me with a very solid argument, I'm going to have to say, the only right you have atm, is your right to the opinion of yours that you do not like the name Howler's.

Aside from that? You don't have a leg to stand on.

Oh no, I can tell you you won't understand.

1. A New York business man purchased land in Montana and lived here just long enough to run for governor. He then ruined the state's economy in order for his buddies in New York to make more money.
2. Great Lakes Airlines purchased Big Sky Airlines. Great Lakes cut all service to the western side of the state, so now getting from east to west or visa versa is now a minimum 8 hour trip.
3. Washingtonians and Californians have been steadily buying up vacation homes up here. Strangely enough, the traffic deaths have started to rise higher and higher, making Montana one of the worst states to drive in.
4. These same people have blocked expansion on several economic necessities in favor of Pot Shops and legalizing weed.
5. Montana used to be self sufficient on energy, but ever since the state broke up the power company, the energy comes from South Dakota.
6. The Gay-Lesbian-Transgender-Bisexual community has come under heavier and heavier fire on the West Side of the state, the same area that the Washingtonians and Californians are buying up. The head of the GLBT Alliance of Kalispell was severely beaten last year and the police did nothing.

And this is relevant to a furry creating a fictional team for personal enjoyment...... HOW?

I find it humorous that you have No problems assuming things about me, others and everything else, but God forbid if one should assume something with you. o,O Very odd.

Anyways, Why u mad? No seriously, why are you upset about this? If anything you should be taking this as a compliment. A Homage if you will. Instead, you dug through Jt's gallery, and decided to have Moral RAAAEEEGG! Over a submission that is a year or more old. Over something that is a complement to Every State that a team is in [And England btw...do you see the Queen in here screaming her head off?]

Yes I actually DO understand what the politics have done to the state of Montana, But here's what I Don't understand.

You.

I don't understand You. I don't understand why you feel the need to be butthurt over something that was complimentary to the states that are a part of this *ahem* Fantasy Basketball League* [No Politics, No Money exchanged No Nothing]

But since you're out of steam, and frankly all your arguments make little to no sence or relevance to this bit of art, I'll simply let this be one of those "agree to disagree" things.

I am sorry you feel as you do. But I assure you, your Great State is Not being taken advantage of.

7. In the past 50 years, Montana has gone from the middle of the pack in taxes to in the top 10 states in the US for taxes, but we're still in the bottom 10 states for population.

First of all, as to not derail into trivial matters that are beside the point, I'm going to assume that all the things you mentioned are things that people living in Montana actually have reason to be upset over and not simply a matter of opinion on various domestic issues...

Despite all of the things you mentioned, which I'm sorry have happened, those events have absolutely no baring on a small, fictional team made of furry creatures. Nothing is being "taken advantage of". No one is being "wronged". There is no "injustice", nor are there any ill effects or consequences. There is absolutely no grounds for you to think anything of the contrary.

The things you mentioned? Taking advantage of people, sure.

An element of fiction used for absolutely no profit or detriment of anyone? Absolutely not taking advantage of anyone. It's not like an outsider 'took yer job' because he made a logo for his friend's imaginary fantasy team. There was no 'job' to be taken, and nobody in Montana is the least bit affected... except for you apparently, for some incomprehensible reason, which at this point is more sad/amusing than anything else.

Moral of this story:

You're making mountains out of molehills and inventing moral outrage without any real basis for it, grasping at straws that really have no relevance to your argument.

And with that, I'm going to bed. We can continue this however long you'd like, if you want.

I'm out of steam.

Alrighty. Well nice talking to ya. ^^