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Alrash, named after the Alrash system where this class of Ships was built for a short period of time, is a perfect example of a Csye warship.
The Alrash is relatively lightly armoured, equipped with powerful engines and only relatively small amounts of fuel stores. It´s prime drive system is a two-stage brake-switch n-conversion drive, allowing it to jump out of n-space after deploying probes, attack, and immediately withdraw again.
It was the first weapons system of battleship size that was constructed, and ultimately, was judged to be a failure. Its armament, consisting of three Laser turrets tapping into a single spinal-mounted cannon, and a mass driver underslung inbetween its engines facing forward, firing a wide variety of projectiles, was powerful enough to pose a significant threat to any known vessel that might have come to face off against a Alrash.
However, being designed for hit and run attacks, the Ship didn´t posess any sort of advanced active defense systems, or even heavy armour: being of considerable mass, bringing the mass driver to bear usually took long enough for the enemy to notice, target and attack the Alrash before it even got off a first shot with its primary weapon.
The Alrash Strike-Battleship design was scrapped, and all Ships of this class were temporarily mothballed, before being converted to Yuna class Battleships. The Yuna, using a virtually identical baseline design, was a much more heavily armed, armoured and better equipped take on the design, which has now been serving for more than a century with the Csye homeworld fleets, as well as expeditionary forces.
A few rare examples of the original Alrash are still used to hunt pirates, most of them having their mass-driver replaced by ad-hoc fighter bays, or missle launchers.
And yes, I know that the perspective is completely off balance and wonky.
The Alrash is relatively lightly armoured, equipped with powerful engines and only relatively small amounts of fuel stores. It´s prime drive system is a two-stage brake-switch n-conversion drive, allowing it to jump out of n-space after deploying probes, attack, and immediately withdraw again.
It was the first weapons system of battleship size that was constructed, and ultimately, was judged to be a failure. Its armament, consisting of three Laser turrets tapping into a single spinal-mounted cannon, and a mass driver underslung inbetween its engines facing forward, firing a wide variety of projectiles, was powerful enough to pose a significant threat to any known vessel that might have come to face off against a Alrash.
However, being designed for hit and run attacks, the Ship didn´t posess any sort of advanced active defense systems, or even heavy armour: being of considerable mass, bringing the mass driver to bear usually took long enough for the enemy to notice, target and attack the Alrash before it even got off a first shot with its primary weapon.
The Alrash Strike-Battleship design was scrapped, and all Ships of this class were temporarily mothballed, before being converted to Yuna class Battleships. The Yuna, using a virtually identical baseline design, was a much more heavily armed, armoured and better equipped take on the design, which has now been serving for more than a century with the Csye homeworld fleets, as well as expeditionary forces.
A few rare examples of the original Alrash are still used to hunt pirates, most of them having their mass-driver replaced by ad-hoc fighter bays, or missle launchers.
And yes, I know that the perspective is completely off balance and wonky.
Category Artwork (Digital) / Fantasy
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 1024 x 768px
File Size 443 kB
Oooh yes, that. Well, wouldn´t it be boring otherwise? :P At least that´s my take on it. Also, it doesn´t have any of the deficiencies Star Trek ships have, so at least it won´t kill you just by operating normally...
Oh god, did I just start a me vs star trek discussion :<
Oh god, did I just start a me vs star trek discussion :<
Best example of downright dangerous Star Trek ship design is TNG Episode 37 (Contagion) where the Computer Virus destroys the Yamato. There are ALL kinds of things wrong with that Ship (Which also was a Galaxy Class, like the Enterprise) and its design, so I´ll need a bit of space. :P
Single Computer Core: No Redundancies: All systems run trough the single main computer core (which is located behind the bridge, if I remember correctly. I´d have to dig out starship constructor to check), with zero redundancies. If this one computer fails, everything fails. The computer also can be accessed by anyone who knows the right frequency, to shut down the entire Ship with a single 4 digit code (Wrath of Khan).
When the Computer becomes infected, they cannot isolate the infected system because that would mean shutting down their entire ship. So instead they have to start a race against the Virus to stop it before it blows up the Enterprise too.
Reactor System: In Contagion, the Magnetic seals of the Antimatter/Matter reactor of the Yamato collapse, causing a violent AM/M reaction to destroy the ship. Instead of minimizing excess reactivity, Star Trek designers apparently strove to design a reactor with maximum excess reactivity (ie, designed a reactor that blows up instead of shutting down if containment fails). This alone would qualify any real world vessel to be immediately discarded from any military trials for a new ship.
In the Star Trek Universe, the Federation decides to make these their Flagships.
The second big problem is lack of safety-system redundancy: just as with the computer, there is only ONE safety dump. AND IT NEEDS POWER TO OPERATE. In real life nuclear reactors, if there is power loss in any of the control systems, the reactor shuts down instead of the reaction getting more violent. Basically it´s a safety system that can safely eject a perfectly fine reactor core, but once there´s an emergency, you´re in trouble.
:P Don´t get me wrong, I like Star Trek, but whenever Engineering and Tactics come up I can´t but sort of giggle at it. It´s a nice way for me to see where you can go wrong, though, and prevent falling into those pits.
Single Computer Core: No Redundancies: All systems run trough the single main computer core (which is located behind the bridge, if I remember correctly. I´d have to dig out starship constructor to check), with zero redundancies. If this one computer fails, everything fails. The computer also can be accessed by anyone who knows the right frequency, to shut down the entire Ship with a single 4 digit code (Wrath of Khan).
When the Computer becomes infected, they cannot isolate the infected system because that would mean shutting down their entire ship. So instead they have to start a race against the Virus to stop it before it blows up the Enterprise too.
Reactor System: In Contagion, the Magnetic seals of the Antimatter/Matter reactor of the Yamato collapse, causing a violent AM/M reaction to destroy the ship. Instead of minimizing excess reactivity, Star Trek designers apparently strove to design a reactor with maximum excess reactivity (ie, designed a reactor that blows up instead of shutting down if containment fails). This alone would qualify any real world vessel to be immediately discarded from any military trials for a new ship.
In the Star Trek Universe, the Federation decides to make these their Flagships.
The second big problem is lack of safety-system redundancy: just as with the computer, there is only ONE safety dump. AND IT NEEDS POWER TO OPERATE. In real life nuclear reactors, if there is power loss in any of the control systems, the reactor shuts down instead of the reaction getting more violent. Basically it´s a safety system that can safely eject a perfectly fine reactor core, but once there´s an emergency, you´re in trouble.
:P Don´t get me wrong, I like Star Trek, but whenever Engineering and Tactics come up I can´t but sort of giggle at it. It´s a nice way for me to see where you can go wrong, though, and prevent falling into those pits.
Okay. Firstly, all Galaxy class ships have three redundant computer cores. One is capable of operating the ship. If you do not know about a problem until it's too late, it can be safe to assume that the 'virus' has translated to all three.
We have to take into account that Iconian technology is INCREDIBLY supoerior.
Imagine if the first enterprise appeared in orbit and was hostile to us. It'd lock down even our most powerful defenses.
Antimatter containment. It wasn't the reactor that destroyed the Yamato, it was it's Antimatter Containment bottles.
These are cases that seal antimatter in using an electromagnetic field, to prevent contact with matter. If the field is lost, there is matter/antimatter annihilation, and the ship will be destroyed,
This is very dangerous, however, there is no other method capable of producing the incredible ammounts of power needed to operate a warp drive.
It is, however, also possible to jetisson the warp core and antimatter storage, but that requires fore-knowledge of a problem.
The Yamato had no idea it's containment was threatened.
I think perhaps the only thing you posted that isn't forgivable, is the requirments of power in order to dump containment vessels and the core. They have impulse reactors, but the ship could, at least, have some solar panels on it somewhere to provide emergency power.
We have to take into account that Iconian technology is INCREDIBLY supoerior.
Imagine if the first enterprise appeared in orbit and was hostile to us. It'd lock down even our most powerful defenses.
Antimatter containment. It wasn't the reactor that destroyed the Yamato, it was it's Antimatter Containment bottles.
These are cases that seal antimatter in using an electromagnetic field, to prevent contact with matter. If the field is lost, there is matter/antimatter annihilation, and the ship will be destroyed,
This is very dangerous, however, there is no other method capable of producing the incredible ammounts of power needed to operate a warp drive.
It is, however, also possible to jetisson the warp core and antimatter storage, but that requires fore-knowledge of a problem.
The Yamato had no idea it's containment was threatened.
I think perhaps the only thing you posted that isn't forgivable, is the requirments of power in order to dump containment vessels and the core. They have impulse reactors, but the ship could, at least, have some solar panels on it somewhere to provide emergency power.
Hi again!
For the computer cores, I stand corrected. In hindsight, stupid of me though... logically it should have at least two cores, one for the saucer and one for the... uh... engine section thing. But, for comparison, even three computers isn´t a lot. Modern Fighter jets have anywhere between three and ten computers aboard, warships even more. And these are much less advanced than a Spaceship such as any Star Trek starship.
All command and control, engineering, weapons, life support, everything runs trough these singular cores, instead of having completely independent computer systems for each system. It would be a more sensible solution to split these systems up and seperate them, so viruses and the like cannot physically jump the barrier. I´m going to have to watch the TOS and TNG series again to check if I´m completely correct on this, but I believe all computer systems are completely integrated in Starfleet ships.
Antimatter containment... it is true that AM/M is a very dangerous power source, but you also only need VERY little amounts of the stuff to get you moving. 1 gram of matter combined with 1 gram of antimatter yields the equivalent power of about 43 kilotons.
This also means you only need to feed very little of the stuff into the system to make it work, but, true, it still requires a lot of power to contain the AM/M storage cells. There is a distinct barrier where the power levels get low enough for the stored antimatter to escape containment. Any sensible engineer would use a dead man´s switch to prevent things from deteriorating that far. All that was needed to save the Yamato was a simple mechanical system measuring the power currents to the containment field. If the power levels fall below a certain point, the containment cells automatically are ejected and the reactor shut down. Nobody would ever need to push a button.
Any modern day nuclear reactor has such a, usually electro-mechanical, switch preventing a meltdown. No Computers involved. One thing, I think, that Star Trek ships suffer severely from, is over-engineering, and the solutions are rarely thought trough to generate interesting plot points. WHich unfortunately turns the Star Trek Universe into a hilariously unsafe one :/
Nontheless, I think the point of Star Trek isn´t how well the Ships are designed, but the Vision of the Future which it presents. Looking at the engineering and science in there, however, is downright hilarious most of the time 8>. Also, disclaimer before more people latch onto this, I neither intend to start a flame war, nor hurt people. All I desire is a GEEK OUT over SHIPS IN SPACE.
For the computer cores, I stand corrected. In hindsight, stupid of me though... logically it should have at least two cores, one for the saucer and one for the... uh... engine section thing. But, for comparison, even three computers isn´t a lot. Modern Fighter jets have anywhere between three and ten computers aboard, warships even more. And these are much less advanced than a Spaceship such as any Star Trek starship.
All command and control, engineering, weapons, life support, everything runs trough these singular cores, instead of having completely independent computer systems for each system. It would be a more sensible solution to split these systems up and seperate them, so viruses and the like cannot physically jump the barrier. I´m going to have to watch the TOS and TNG series again to check if I´m completely correct on this, but I believe all computer systems are completely integrated in Starfleet ships.
Antimatter containment... it is true that AM/M is a very dangerous power source, but you also only need VERY little amounts of the stuff to get you moving. 1 gram of matter combined with 1 gram of antimatter yields the equivalent power of about 43 kilotons.
This also means you only need to feed very little of the stuff into the system to make it work, but, true, it still requires a lot of power to contain the AM/M storage cells. There is a distinct barrier where the power levels get low enough for the stored antimatter to escape containment. Any sensible engineer would use a dead man´s switch to prevent things from deteriorating that far. All that was needed to save the Yamato was a simple mechanical system measuring the power currents to the containment field. If the power levels fall below a certain point, the containment cells automatically are ejected and the reactor shut down. Nobody would ever need to push a button.
Any modern day nuclear reactor has such a, usually electro-mechanical, switch preventing a meltdown. No Computers involved. One thing, I think, that Star Trek ships suffer severely from, is over-engineering, and the solutions are rarely thought trough to generate interesting plot points. WHich unfortunately turns the Star Trek Universe into a hilariously unsafe one :/
Nontheless, I think the point of Star Trek isn´t how well the Ships are designed, but the Vision of the Future which it presents. Looking at the engineering and science in there, however, is downright hilarious most of the time 8>. Also, disclaimer before more people latch onto this, I neither intend to start a flame war, nor hurt people. All I desire is a GEEK OUT over SHIPS IN SPACE.
I think the idea, really, is that the federation go ahead and design things in their image of a happy future. These are oversights, and faiures caused by things they never thought they would run into.
The whole Idea, form my point of view, abotu the computer, is that it was designed to make life easier, and help manage the ship, making it easier on the crew. Of course, that is dangerous in it's own way.
But when we talk about people hurtling through space at (frankly) insane speeds... well, it's all quite dangerous overall.
One point to make about multiple cores and seperate computers, is that if they are controlled by humans, there needs to be a singular communications system there that lets the crew communicate and synchronise their operations.
If it is computer controlled, there needs to be a connection between them all.
The connection gives a route through which the Iconian signal could still compromise the entire ship.. and if it was the former, all you would need is comms to go down, and your ship is useless.
There's pretty much a 'fail' situation for each way of working things.
It's not so much that the ships are badly thought out/engineered, but it just has it's partiular downsides in in a different way.
The whole Idea, form my point of view, abotu the computer, is that it was designed to make life easier, and help manage the ship, making it easier on the crew. Of course, that is dangerous in it's own way.
But when we talk about people hurtling through space at (frankly) insane speeds... well, it's all quite dangerous overall.
One point to make about multiple cores and seperate computers, is that if they are controlled by humans, there needs to be a singular communications system there that lets the crew communicate and synchronise their operations.
If it is computer controlled, there needs to be a connection between them all.
The connection gives a route through which the Iconian signal could still compromise the entire ship.. and if it was the former, all you would need is comms to go down, and your ship is useless.
There's pretty much a 'fail' situation for each way of working things.
It's not so much that the ships are badly thought out/engineered, but it just has it's partiular downsides in in a different way.
That´s a fair take on it.
Even though, I think that in an optimal system, there would be no cross-connections between the different computer systems safe for where absolutely necessary. And even then, each Computer system would have at least one back-up system (which is also detached from the main system to prevent it from taking damage/being infected). I think a lot of the failures in Star Treks design are implemented to make interesting stories. If the Yamato hadn´t exploded at the beginning of the Episode, I think it would´ve been a pretty boring one too...
I also tend to think things through a little too much once I get started. I try to prevent myself from making similar mistakes in my own designs (even if they WOULd serve any story that may be coming up), while still making them somehow remain cool looking, and interesting.
Even though, I think that in an optimal system, there would be no cross-connections between the different computer systems safe for where absolutely necessary. And even then, each Computer system would have at least one back-up system (which is also detached from the main system to prevent it from taking damage/being infected). I think a lot of the failures in Star Treks design are implemented to make interesting stories. If the Yamato hadn´t exploded at the beginning of the Episode, I think it would´ve been a pretty boring one too...
I also tend to think things through a little too much once I get started. I try to prevent myself from making similar mistakes in my own designs (even if they WOULd serve any story that may be coming up), while still making them somehow remain cool looking, and interesting.
That´s actually a neat Idea. What I was thinking of before were Plasma shells which were basically ceramic containers with strong magnets around them which shattered on impact. It´s STILL not THAT plausible, but at least its better than the silly WH40k Plasma Guns.
Ultimately, I guess, it comes down to what can plausibly be fit under the RULE OF COOL. 8)
Ultimately, I guess, it comes down to what can plausibly be fit under the RULE OF COOL. 8)
RULE OF COOL 8) generally fits 40K real well. My god do I love 40k.
if we go by how 'uber' the imperial technology is meant to be, though, I think it's probably feasible to have a plasma/gas so hot that it's not dissipated before it becomes useful.
I like beam lasers, railguns and missile launchers for spaceships though.
See EVE Online :D
if we go by how 'uber' the imperial technology is meant to be, though, I think it's probably feasible to have a plasma/gas so hot that it's not dissipated before it becomes useful.
I like beam lasers, railguns and missile launchers for spaceships though.
See EVE Online :D
I was really into 40K until they began watering down the rules and taking out the text from the White Dwarf to replace it with colourful pictures. It´s really all style over realism, and where things resemble realism they usually do because the reality was bombastic enough to put it in.
Right now I´m more into doing my own thing. 40K´s art is an inspiration, but apart from that, I try to do something all of my own. And hopefully, it´ll be similarily cool.
Right now I´m more into doing my own thing. 40K´s art is an inspiration, but apart from that, I try to do something all of my own. And hopefully, it´ll be similarily cool.
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