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The Fandom As A Means Of Escape? I'd Rather It Not Be.
A reader was reading the latest journal, and lamented that they could not favorite it. Taking a journal and making it a story submission is actually not that difficult, and since someone asked, I decided I'd re-publish it like this for those that want to favorite.
This is a word for word copy of the journal without any changes (save for the title, but that's no biggie).
Apparently it's struck a few chords, which I'm actually quite happy to see. I'd like it if everyone who thinks this is a worthwhile read would share this so that others may see it too.
However, remember that I don't want to share it as a means to make the movement or myself more popular. I want to share it so that people will be urged to think and contemplate their role here in the fandom and what it means to them.
I'll have more thoughts to share probably sooner than later, so keep your eyes peeled.
~Otaku-Man
This is a word for word copy of the journal without any changes (save for the title, but that's no biggie).
Apparently it's struck a few chords, which I'm actually quite happy to see. I'd like it if everyone who thinks this is a worthwhile read would share this so that others may see it too.
However, remember that I don't want to share it as a means to make the movement or myself more popular. I want to share it so that people will be urged to think and contemplate their role here in the fandom and what it means to them.
I'll have more thoughts to share probably sooner than later, so keep your eyes peeled.
~Otaku-Man
Category Story / All
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 120 x 120px
File Size 13.6 kB
Usually I don't post on random things I find, but two things:
1. Sex and dating are two vastly different things, though they can both be present in a single relationship.
2. I knew my girlfriend before I was ever a member of FA, so I'm definitely not here to hook up with people.
1. Sex and dating are two vastly different things, though they can both be present in a single relationship.
2. I knew my girlfriend before I was ever a member of FA, so I'm definitely not here to hook up with people.
Wow! It's nice to see someone produce such a thought-provoking analysis of the furry fandom as a whole.
My hypothesis regarding the shame associated with being a furry fan (notice I didn't say "being a fur") would be similar to yours regarding the opinions of non-fans. I think not only do non-fans associate furry with porn (in other words, condemning all furry fans as "perverts"), but they relate furry to other sexual 'perversions,' such as zoophilia/bestiality, or to things they see on TV, such as the notorious CSI episode featuring "fur piles" and whatnot. It's essentially a lack of understanding from non-fans that promotes a shameful attitude.
I myself only share this interest with my close friends. Then again, like you said, furry isn't my life, it's a hobby, and how many people go around broadcasting their hobbies? lol.
I dunno, thought I'd try and contribute.
Oh, and my stories = total porn, lmao. >8D And not for money, just because it's fun to write about romance and sex.
My hypothesis regarding the shame associated with being a furry fan (notice I didn't say "being a fur") would be similar to yours regarding the opinions of non-fans. I think not only do non-fans associate furry with porn (in other words, condemning all furry fans as "perverts"), but they relate furry to other sexual 'perversions,' such as zoophilia/bestiality, or to things they see on TV, such as the notorious CSI episode featuring "fur piles" and whatnot. It's essentially a lack of understanding from non-fans that promotes a shameful attitude.
I myself only share this interest with my close friends. Then again, like you said, furry isn't my life, it's a hobby, and how many people go around broadcasting their hobbies? lol.
I dunno, thought I'd try and contribute.
Oh, and my stories = total porn, lmao. >8D And not for money, just because it's fun to write about romance and sex.
I have to agree whole heartedly with your post. If there was a way to +rep on this site I would do it. I write my fair share of sexual stories too, because lust seems to be a big inspiration for me. But I also write non sexual and I enjoy those ones as well. I hate the people who think that just because you're a furry that you are into bestiality. THAT is the main reason I also only share the fact tham i'm a furry with my close friends. People are so judgemental of others, which is why I love this community. Everyone is accepted for who they are. Now i'm not one of those people who dress up in fursuits or even attend conventions. But if there is a game with an anthropomorphic character in it, you can almost be certain they will be my fave character. I just enjoy anthroes in general.
Interesting look at it
I see furry and otaku as a means of individual artistic expression, albeit i may never go and buy a fursuit or cosplay my fav characters (i make originals) but i have found, with any fandom or group, i can cater what they advertise to suit me and my needs.
for me, the fandom is not a means of escape but pursuing an interest in order to asess what i'm like as an individual.
I see furry and otaku as a means of individual artistic expression, albeit i may never go and buy a fursuit or cosplay my fav characters (i make originals) but i have found, with any fandom or group, i can cater what they advertise to suit me and my needs.
for me, the fandom is not a means of escape but pursuing an interest in order to asess what i'm like as an individual.
Your analysis of the fandom is scarily an accurate analysis of our society as a whole today. So many aren't taught skills they need for self-happiness, or kept from expression their happiness because it's 'not acceptable' even when it's something as simple as wearing a shirt with Sonic on it.
I think part of the issues it that so many of those in the fandom are so young. I think it's something like 85% of those on FA are under the age of 25. It's likely a result of the fact that, as technology goes, the internet is relatively new. Furries have been around for longer than 30 years, in art, advertising, cartoons, etc, but largely unseen as a group. It wasn't until the early 90's, with the advent of the Internet, that the group started to form, and grow an identity apart from simple gamers and comic fans.
As someone who's been apart of this fandom for going on 11 years, I've seen a lot of changes in the fandom, and in myself within the fandom. I've matured, gotten a more mature sense of what the fandom means to me. It's not just something silly or fun, but has a meaning, personally. I enjoy the fun, still, but it's not about porn and yiffing all the time anymore (Thank God I'm not a teenager anymore).
I've noticed as well that some revel in the drama and depression, wear it like a badge of honor. They refuse to learn how to help themselves because they've grown so used to the self-made depression that it's grown comfortable, and they resist change like a cat resists being submerged in water. Try and force them, and they claw your arms.
You have a great project here, and I'd like to say I fully support you. This fandom, and so much of the rest of the world, has degraded into drama-laden tedium. I'll do my part to help try and change even one small part of it with you.
I think part of the issues it that so many of those in the fandom are so young. I think it's something like 85% of those on FA are under the age of 25. It's likely a result of the fact that, as technology goes, the internet is relatively new. Furries have been around for longer than 30 years, in art, advertising, cartoons, etc, but largely unseen as a group. It wasn't until the early 90's, with the advent of the Internet, that the group started to form, and grow an identity apart from simple gamers and comic fans.
As someone who's been apart of this fandom for going on 11 years, I've seen a lot of changes in the fandom, and in myself within the fandom. I've matured, gotten a more mature sense of what the fandom means to me. It's not just something silly or fun, but has a meaning, personally. I enjoy the fun, still, but it's not about porn and yiffing all the time anymore (Thank God I'm not a teenager anymore).
I've noticed as well that some revel in the drama and depression, wear it like a badge of honor. They refuse to learn how to help themselves because they've grown so used to the self-made depression that it's grown comfortable, and they resist change like a cat resists being submerged in water. Try and force them, and they claw your arms.
You have a great project here, and I'd like to say I fully support you. This fandom, and so much of the rest of the world, has degraded into drama-laden tedium. I'll do my part to help try and change even one small part of it with you.
That's something I'm still working on, but one of the primary requirements is that it has to be known by a good majority of the fandom. Another one that I'm fine tuning and am having a hard time with is the requirement that states that the primary draw of the work isn't porn. That's not to say that it can't have adult situations, nudity, or even sex, as in the case of Omaha the Cat Dancer. However, at the same time it also needs to have strong characters, a compelling story and plot, and a significance that goes beyond "fap material".
However, like I mentioned, trying to define that sort of thing is tricky and nearly impossible, as is quantifying works that may have lost popularity over time. That's why it's a work in progress. I've only just begun.
~Otaku-Man
However, like I mentioned, trying to define that sort of thing is tricky and nearly impossible, as is quantifying works that may have lost popularity over time. That's why it's a work in progress. I've only just begun.
~Otaku-Man
Let me clarify my question a bit, since your answer only covered part of what I wanted to know. Are you looking only for works created by furries? Are you looking only at specific forms of media (films, comic books, etc.)? Are you only looking at works targeted at a certain age group?
I'm not trying to drill you on your research here, just wondering what GENERAL guidelines you're going by to look for these works since a few come to mind immediately for me, personally.
I'm not trying to drill you on your research here, just wondering what GENERAL guidelines you're going by to look for these works since a few come to mind immediately for me, personally.
Are you looking only for works created by furries?
No, the work itself does not need to be made by someone who claims that they are a furry. It does need to contain anthropomorphic characters, or Proto-Humans (as recently described in the new TOS and AUP) in either a primary role or as a regular part of the story / universe the story takes place in. Even if the creator claims their work is not furry, as in the case of Reed Waller and Omaha the Cat Dancer, a work is still considered furry if the majority of the fandom considers it to be so. Few in the fandom would say that Omaha the Cat Dancer is not furry.
Are you looking only at specific forms of media (films, comic books, etc.)?
My current focus has been on comic books, but this can include films and novels as well.
Perri_Rhoades has done a much better job of researching furry works over the past 100+ years. He's also one of the oldest furs in the fandom, having been a furry since the 60's. His timeline of furry works is quite comprehensive, with very little I'd disagree with.
Are you only looking at works targeted at a certain age group?
In a sense, yes and no.
One thing that I see as being critical for a work to be "Furry" is for it to have a level of maturity to it. By mature, I don't mean sex and violence, but things that a kid would not get or understand. For example, Art Spiegelman's MAUS can be considered furry since all the characters are anthropomorphic animals, and the story is quite mature with its tales of surviving the Holocaust. A kid reading MAUS would not be able to grasp or understand what's going on.
Another separating factor are "Funny Animals" which I don't count as "Furry". Are they related? Absolutely! But funny animals are just that; there for the laughs. Tom & Jerry, Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, Mickey Mouse. They are the children's entertainment that many of us grew up on, and enjoyed. A lot of it can still be enjoyed today, but being a fan of "Funny Animals" does not make someone "furry". It makes them a fan of childrens' entertainment, and that's fine by me.
Then again, maybe this requires a closer look. Classic Carl Banks comics of Uncle Scrooge (which would later become DuckTales for many an 80's kid) would most likely be considered "Funny Animal" since it was intended for a young audience. Still, Uncle Scrooge's adventures in search for treasure and rogues gallery of villains (Flintheart Glomgold, Magica DeSpell, The Beagle Boys, etc.) could also qualify it as "furry" since you will be hard pressed to find an adult that doesn't like DuckTales or Uncle Scrooge who grew up on it. The Uncle Scrooge comics were well written, expanded the Disney universe, and are considered classics. You could say that it stands somewhere in the middle of what I suppose many would consider furry, and what others would consider funny animal.
So I guess you could say that one of the things I am lamenting the most of the creations people in the fandom make is that there are not enough creations of "DuckTales" quality out there.
Does that help answer your question better? I hope?
~Otaku-Man
P.S. By the way, I don't mind you asking. These are very good questions to ask, and definitely worth considering. I appreciate you coming up with these. :)
No, the work itself does not need to be made by someone who claims that they are a furry. It does need to contain anthropomorphic characters, or Proto-Humans (as recently described in the new TOS and AUP) in either a primary role or as a regular part of the story / universe the story takes place in. Even if the creator claims their work is not furry, as in the case of Reed Waller and Omaha the Cat Dancer, a work is still considered furry if the majority of the fandom considers it to be so. Few in the fandom would say that Omaha the Cat Dancer is not furry.
Are you looking only at specific forms of media (films, comic books, etc.)?
My current focus has been on comic books, but this can include films and novels as well.
Perri_Rhoades has done a much better job of researching furry works over the past 100+ years. He's also one of the oldest furs in the fandom, having been a furry since the 60's. His timeline of furry works is quite comprehensive, with very little I'd disagree with.Are you only looking at works targeted at a certain age group?
In a sense, yes and no.
One thing that I see as being critical for a work to be "Furry" is for it to have a level of maturity to it. By mature, I don't mean sex and violence, but things that a kid would not get or understand. For example, Art Spiegelman's MAUS can be considered furry since all the characters are anthropomorphic animals, and the story is quite mature with its tales of surviving the Holocaust. A kid reading MAUS would not be able to grasp or understand what's going on.
Another separating factor are "Funny Animals" which I don't count as "Furry". Are they related? Absolutely! But funny animals are just that; there for the laughs. Tom & Jerry, Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, Mickey Mouse. They are the children's entertainment that many of us grew up on, and enjoyed. A lot of it can still be enjoyed today, but being a fan of "Funny Animals" does not make someone "furry". It makes them a fan of childrens' entertainment, and that's fine by me.
Then again, maybe this requires a closer look. Classic Carl Banks comics of Uncle Scrooge (which would later become DuckTales for many an 80's kid) would most likely be considered "Funny Animal" since it was intended for a young audience. Still, Uncle Scrooge's adventures in search for treasure and rogues gallery of villains (Flintheart Glomgold, Magica DeSpell, The Beagle Boys, etc.) could also qualify it as "furry" since you will be hard pressed to find an adult that doesn't like DuckTales or Uncle Scrooge who grew up on it. The Uncle Scrooge comics were well written, expanded the Disney universe, and are considered classics. You could say that it stands somewhere in the middle of what I suppose many would consider furry, and what others would consider funny animal.
So I guess you could say that one of the things I am lamenting the most of the creations people in the fandom make is that there are not enough creations of "DuckTales" quality out there.
Does that help answer your question better? I hope?
~Otaku-Man
P.S. By the way, I don't mind you asking. These are very good questions to ask, and definitely worth considering. I appreciate you coming up with these. :)
I think this is very well written piece. It definitely strikes a few chords with me.
This little narrative, "This guy's a college student with a job on the side with the school to make money and has been making good grades too." definitely sounds a lot like me. I'm not totally apathetic about life nor hold quite the same conception of happiness as the example, but I can empathize.
There are a lot of things in my life that are not pretty, things that shouldn't be forced upon anybody. On the other hand though I can objectively discern I've made the best of it: 3.8 GPA, double major, part time internship, I've studied abroad, received scholarships, etc. From the outside one could say I'm the definition of college success. Yet I still come to this fandom (as you have identified is the case for many) as an escape. An escape from the tragedies I've been forced to endure and my own personal failures.
The fandom is a safe place. I grew up a few minutes from Disney World spending much of my early adolescence there. Cartoons are the closest thing I know to stability and perpetual happiness. I've always drawn cartoon animals, watched cartoons as stress relief / escapism. Finding the fandom was just opening my world to others who made this kind of art and held these same feelings. The fandom offers you a powerful ability: the means to recreate yourself in a manner you feel that best represents "you" pretty much free from judgment. Its a powerful motivator to join. Honestly, I believe this has been one of the best parts of the fandom for me. Back before I discovered the fandom, I had no idea who I was. Although I'm sure there is more to discover, in some ways the fandom has helped me find who I really am.
From day 1 though I've always felt the shame you've mentioned. I don't want to, but I do. There is a part of my subconscious that will not let it down. Part of it is myself. I tell myself, "you are 21 years old yet you continue to draw yourself as an animal, wish to dress up as one, and watch 90's era cartoons (all very much in secret)". Part of it is what others may think of me. I postulate that I could lose my internship, get rejected from law schools, be turned down for future jobs. I don't know how rational these fears are but they definitely hold a huge weight on me. . I know I only have one chance to succeed and make it out of this town, and the thought of risking it over the fandom kills me. Especially when deep down I know I obviously have not done anything wrong by joining the fandom.
I've told myself from the beginning that I wouldn't stay here past 25 yrs old. Now I'm thinking I'll leave before I enter law school in Fall of 2011. I don't want to. If I could I would draw in front of my roommates, not be ashamed of watching bolt and thoroughly enjoying it. and even try my hand at fursuiting (which I've always wanted do) I would without prejudice.
But from the way it stands right now the potential costs just seem too high. Its a shame, I don't want to hide it, be ashamed of it, run away from it, but unless I can be assured out that the fandom isn't going to ruin me in the end I just don't think that's going to change that much.
Sorry to be such a downer. You wrote an excellent piece.
This little narrative, "This guy's a college student with a job on the side with the school to make money and has been making good grades too." definitely sounds a lot like me. I'm not totally apathetic about life nor hold quite the same conception of happiness as the example, but I can empathize.
There are a lot of things in my life that are not pretty, things that shouldn't be forced upon anybody. On the other hand though I can objectively discern I've made the best of it: 3.8 GPA, double major, part time internship, I've studied abroad, received scholarships, etc. From the outside one could say I'm the definition of college success. Yet I still come to this fandom (as you have identified is the case for many) as an escape. An escape from the tragedies I've been forced to endure and my own personal failures.
The fandom is a safe place. I grew up a few minutes from Disney World spending much of my early adolescence there. Cartoons are the closest thing I know to stability and perpetual happiness. I've always drawn cartoon animals, watched cartoons as stress relief / escapism. Finding the fandom was just opening my world to others who made this kind of art and held these same feelings. The fandom offers you a powerful ability: the means to recreate yourself in a manner you feel that best represents "you" pretty much free from judgment. Its a powerful motivator to join. Honestly, I believe this has been one of the best parts of the fandom for me. Back before I discovered the fandom, I had no idea who I was. Although I'm sure there is more to discover, in some ways the fandom has helped me find who I really am.
From day 1 though I've always felt the shame you've mentioned. I don't want to, but I do. There is a part of my subconscious that will not let it down. Part of it is myself. I tell myself, "you are 21 years old yet you continue to draw yourself as an animal, wish to dress up as one, and watch 90's era cartoons (all very much in secret)". Part of it is what others may think of me. I postulate that I could lose my internship, get rejected from law schools, be turned down for future jobs. I don't know how rational these fears are but they definitely hold a huge weight on me. . I know I only have one chance to succeed and make it out of this town, and the thought of risking it over the fandom kills me. Especially when deep down I know I obviously have not done anything wrong by joining the fandom.
I've told myself from the beginning that I wouldn't stay here past 25 yrs old. Now I'm thinking I'll leave before I enter law school in Fall of 2011. I don't want to. If I could I would draw in front of my roommates, not be ashamed of watching bolt and thoroughly enjoying it. and even try my hand at fursuiting (which I've always wanted do) I would without prejudice.
But from the way it stands right now the potential costs just seem too high. Its a shame, I don't want to hide it, be ashamed of it, run away from it, but unless I can be assured out that the fandom isn't going to ruin me in the end I just don't think that's going to change that much.
Sorry to be such a downer. You wrote an excellent piece.
Food for thought: what makes this medium of escapism worse than others people could turn to? What is so inherently bad about escapism (and why do you believe this)? Could shame just be an internalized emotion from engaging in what society tells us is deviant activity?
Escapism and societal expectations are being sold to us in every facet of our lives. It won't be an easy problem to wrestle with. These things are ingrained in American culture.
Escapism and societal expectations are being sold to us in every facet of our lives. It won't be an easy problem to wrestle with. These things are ingrained in American culture.
Granted there are a few furs that are out there that find this fandom and will go out and say hey! Finally there's a group of people that will accept me for being me and Now I can go ahead and just be my character and forget about the real world forever!
Um, no. That's not going to happen. Y'see no matter what you think or choose to believe the real world is going to be there whether you like it or not and if you can't keep up with it... it will trap you under it's wheels and crush you. There is a cause and effect for everything and I have seen some furs do some entirely stupid shit. Not going to go into who did what or swap stories but there are people out there that need to get off their ass and get their heads into the real world.
I am a fursuiter as well and I enjoy what I do. But do I go ahead and wear Savannah (my hyena) around the house and pretend I am a hyena all day long? Hell no! If I did that nothing would get done and it would creep out the neighbors! (hmmm.. idea for later on. ;)
Also the whole reasoning with people and having facts to back up their argument? Good luck on that. I've listened to some of these arguments and sometimes it just boils down to a third grade level in which someone states that they are right and they don't want to listen to anything else. Believe me.. i've seen it happen more than once.
But yeah I agree with alot of the stuff in this post... however I am conflicted with one part.
"If a person makes a mistake, I would expect that person to admit their mistake and apologize. This is being responsible."
I have done that. I have made mistakes in the past and made public journals apologizing for my actions. I would say.. oh 7 out of 10 times know what happens?
The pleas go on deaf ears. And in fact they use that opening to take pot shots at me. And you know what it does? It causes drama in and of itself! So what am I supposed to do? Admit my mistakes and let myself get ripped open a new one and thus causing more drama or keep my mouth shut, not admit my mistake and just go about my life?
There is no right or wrong answer for this.
Some people are in this fandom not to escape RL for good.. but just bits and pieces at a time. They may have a job they hate, co workers that bug them and all that and if they can afford it and it doesn't cause them any undue stress then yeah! Going to cons or meets and bouncing around in a fursuit (if you have one) there's nothing WRONG with that. It becomes a problem when you're in character ALL the time and you wake up and you see your animal staring back at you in the mirror.
If you do see that.. give me your address so I can call the men in white coats to drag you off.. because you need help.
Johnny
Um, no. That's not going to happen. Y'see no matter what you think or choose to believe the real world is going to be there whether you like it or not and if you can't keep up with it... it will trap you under it's wheels and crush you. There is a cause and effect for everything and I have seen some furs do some entirely stupid shit. Not going to go into who did what or swap stories but there are people out there that need to get off their ass and get their heads into the real world.
I am a fursuiter as well and I enjoy what I do. But do I go ahead and wear Savannah (my hyena) around the house and pretend I am a hyena all day long? Hell no! If I did that nothing would get done and it would creep out the neighbors! (hmmm.. idea for later on. ;)
Also the whole reasoning with people and having facts to back up their argument? Good luck on that. I've listened to some of these arguments and sometimes it just boils down to a third grade level in which someone states that they are right and they don't want to listen to anything else. Believe me.. i've seen it happen more than once.
But yeah I agree with alot of the stuff in this post... however I am conflicted with one part.
"If a person makes a mistake, I would expect that person to admit their mistake and apologize. This is being responsible."
I have done that. I have made mistakes in the past and made public journals apologizing for my actions. I would say.. oh 7 out of 10 times know what happens?
The pleas go on deaf ears. And in fact they use that opening to take pot shots at me. And you know what it does? It causes drama in and of itself! So what am I supposed to do? Admit my mistakes and let myself get ripped open a new one and thus causing more drama or keep my mouth shut, not admit my mistake and just go about my life?
There is no right or wrong answer for this.
Some people are in this fandom not to escape RL for good.. but just bits and pieces at a time. They may have a job they hate, co workers that bug them and all that and if they can afford it and it doesn't cause them any undue stress then yeah! Going to cons or meets and bouncing around in a fursuit (if you have one) there's nothing WRONG with that. It becomes a problem when you're in character ALL the time and you wake up and you see your animal staring back at you in the mirror.
If you do see that.. give me your address so I can call the men in white coats to drag you off.. because you need help.
Johnny
I have no damn clue anymore why furries feel shame about anything about the fandom in general. I see being a furry in itself nothing to be proud or ashamed of. It's not an accomplishment nor is it degrading it just IS. I don't know what the hell I was afraid of in the first place that kept me from being openly active in this fandom producing videos and art and comics. I don't know if I'll be denied spots like the artist you mention because of furry artwork or not but none the less screw society and it's status quo.
I wouldn't say be proud of who you just be happy with who you are and save the pride for accomplishments like a decent job or social status. If you are not then by all means do something about it before you get rejected from the social group that seems to draw in the rejected from main stream of society. Even before the fandom I looked at people and saw them in positions I would not want to be in and positions that I would like to be in. I strive to be better artist one at the level of the greatest out there so I can tell the stories I want. The internet and the furry fandom seems to be the last refuge for complete total creative freedom for better and for worse.
To me what the fandom needs in order to get out of the rejection it faces that is even within the fandom in itself is to be less afraid of who they are and accept themselves and eventually the main stream will follow suit and we will no longer be a group of mere hardcore fans and low selfasteme socially awkward people who are really, for the most part, products of society. This shunning of certain furries because they draw 'this' are into 'this' and do 'this' has people outside pointing fingers at us saying "you see YOU SEE! this is vile." and the shyness and fear of ones self and defensive nature that plagues this small but growing group makes it harder on everyone else. I don't need to explain myself to anyone not my parents, my boss, my school, as long as I keep the sex private (well nothing wrong with those who post their stuff on xtube but you know what I mean I hope) the fursuit frolicking off the work clock and school hours It shouldn't matter. Unless I'm doing something destructive like raping, lying about something of significance or torchering animals in my basement.
I wouldn't say be proud of who you just be happy with who you are and save the pride for accomplishments like a decent job or social status. If you are not then by all means do something about it before you get rejected from the social group that seems to draw in the rejected from main stream of society. Even before the fandom I looked at people and saw them in positions I would not want to be in and positions that I would like to be in. I strive to be better artist one at the level of the greatest out there so I can tell the stories I want. The internet and the furry fandom seems to be the last refuge for complete total creative freedom for better and for worse.
To me what the fandom needs in order to get out of the rejection it faces that is even within the fandom in itself is to be less afraid of who they are and accept themselves and eventually the main stream will follow suit and we will no longer be a group of mere hardcore fans and low selfasteme socially awkward people who are really, for the most part, products of society. This shunning of certain furries because they draw 'this' are into 'this' and do 'this' has people outside pointing fingers at us saying "you see YOU SEE! this is vile." and the shyness and fear of ones self and defensive nature that plagues this small but growing group makes it harder on everyone else. I don't need to explain myself to anyone not my parents, my boss, my school, as long as I keep the sex private (well nothing wrong with those who post their stuff on xtube but you know what I mean I hope) the fursuit frolicking off the work clock and school hours It shouldn't matter. Unless I'm doing something destructive like raping, lying about something of significance or torchering animals in my basement.
Still working my way through this but you make some interesting points and bring up a few problems I've had with the fandom...
Escapism: It may be just because I've had worse luck then most, but I've run into my fair share of furs who demonstrate some kind of escapism to get out of feelings of inadaquecy, dissatisfaction with their lives, or a percieved lack of control. They all express it in different ways; often a stubborn demand to RP "their" way, or a fascination with godmodded characters who are ultimately as boring as all fuck and I want to kill just to make it the trainwreck RP end. I have had encounters with all three and in the process acquired a small list of furs who just flat out make me weep for humanity...
Shame: To be perfectly honest, shame and guilt are things I don't see as being "problems" with the fandom. More a side effect of furs who still retain a shred of sanity coming to the realization that "Oh gawd, this is why we have stereotypes about us!" For every quality bit that comes from us, such as Albedo and Extinctioners to name a few I've read, we have dozens of drek mired in countless cliches or just plain aren't good. Although to be perfectly honest, I don't think I could "quit" if I tried. Anthropomorphism has it's hooks in me and while I may not like my dealers and DEFINITELY don't like my fellow addicts, I do like my furry drugs...
Bitter? Most certainly, but then it's been already been a long six or seven years since I've joined the fandom. I've seen new blood that was wise beyond their years and gray muzzles that I hope never have or get the chance to reproduce. To be fair, as one of my friends in the fandom has also noticed, it is getting better. We have a long way to go but it is getting better.
Escapism: It may be just because I've had worse luck then most, but I've run into my fair share of furs who demonstrate some kind of escapism to get out of feelings of inadaquecy, dissatisfaction with their lives, or a percieved lack of control. They all express it in different ways; often a stubborn demand to RP "their" way, or a fascination with godmodded characters who are ultimately as boring as all fuck and I want to kill just to make it the trainwreck RP end. I have had encounters with all three and in the process acquired a small list of furs who just flat out make me weep for humanity...
Shame: To be perfectly honest, shame and guilt are things I don't see as being "problems" with the fandom. More a side effect of furs who still retain a shred of sanity coming to the realization that "Oh gawd, this is why we have stereotypes about us!" For every quality bit that comes from us, such as Albedo and Extinctioners to name a few I've read, we have dozens of drek mired in countless cliches or just plain aren't good. Although to be perfectly honest, I don't think I could "quit" if I tried. Anthropomorphism has it's hooks in me and while I may not like my dealers and DEFINITELY don't like my fellow addicts, I do like my furry drugs...
Bitter? Most certainly, but then it's been already been a long six or seven years since I've joined the fandom. I've seen new blood that was wise beyond their years and gray muzzles that I hope never have or get the chance to reproduce. To be fair, as one of my friends in the fandom has also noticed, it is getting better. We have a long way to go but it is getting better.
That is an incredibly insightful view. I agree wholly with your writings.
I myself am perfectly content in my real life. It has ups and downs, but it makes the experience richer and fuller. I am also completely un-ashamed of being a part of the furry fandom, un-ashamed of my artwork as well. I draw anything from clean to adult, and I enjoy all of it.
Am I afraid of what other people think? Sure I am, it's human nature to want to be 'part of the flock', but I don't let it stop me from being who I am.
There are many furs like me, rational and grounded in reality. It's a damn shame that so many 'escapists' and genuinely sick people have associated themselves with the fandom to the point where they garner the attention as a majority.
Recently I began questioning why other artists are so reluctant to call themselves furry. Your writings have given me an answer.
This fandom needs an overhaul! We need some standards for one thing, and a complete turn around in general personality. The furs with their heads in the right place need to be open and take the fandom back to it's roots as a gathering of mutual interests, rather than a life style. (We also need to nix the piracy infestation).
It's funny you should mention furry based stories that aren't simply pornographic. I've been working on one for a few years now. It hasn't been released publicly yet, but I hope when the time comes, people really enjoy it. Maybe some of the 'old' furs will get a taste of nostalgia from it. That would be swell to me.
I myself am perfectly content in my real life. It has ups and downs, but it makes the experience richer and fuller. I am also completely un-ashamed of being a part of the furry fandom, un-ashamed of my artwork as well. I draw anything from clean to adult, and I enjoy all of it.
Am I afraid of what other people think? Sure I am, it's human nature to want to be 'part of the flock', but I don't let it stop me from being who I am.
There are many furs like me, rational and grounded in reality. It's a damn shame that so many 'escapists' and genuinely sick people have associated themselves with the fandom to the point where they garner the attention as a majority.
Recently I began questioning why other artists are so reluctant to call themselves furry. Your writings have given me an answer.
This fandom needs an overhaul! We need some standards for one thing, and a complete turn around in general personality. The furs with their heads in the right place need to be open and take the fandom back to it's roots as a gathering of mutual interests, rather than a life style. (We also need to nix the piracy infestation).
It's funny you should mention furry based stories that aren't simply pornographic. I've been working on one for a few years now. It hasn't been released publicly yet, but I hope when the time comes, people really enjoy it. Maybe some of the 'old' furs will get a taste of nostalgia from it. That would be swell to me.
I was just thinking along that line, kinda like a stereotype, with friends and stuff having an account on FA fursuiting seldomly isnt a big deal. but what about a job interview? I'm sure no one is confident in letting someone like that know incase employers have some furry stereotype in their head that'll cost you the job.
You are absolutely right. This fandom is not meant to be a person's reason for existence, it is something that all of us here on FA are interested in and, as you said, to get away from the hustle and bustle of the real world every once in a while. Do I think it would be cool to be my fursona? Yes, but do I wish it and obsess over it twenty-four seven, three sixty five? Hell no! I have future desires as far as a career goes and I LIKE being a human. Yes, all of my online friends are wonderful people. But I would never trade my real life friends for anything. And I hope to make as many real life friends as I can! Finally someone who has some sense.
I think that RL society leaves out a whole bunch of people. It tells them that they are pathetic and their interests are irrelevant, and that the only things that matter are being "successful" and acting like a kind of person you aren't.
So these people find this wonderful, magical place online, where they can explore feelings they'd never had or felt safe expressing anyplace else. But they feel shame about it, because everything outside the fandom tells them they're awful low-lifes and sad excuses for human beings. It doesn't help that many of them really are socially crippled, because after going through the meatgrinder of RL society (one that won't even acknowledge the damage it does) they have limited ability to communicate and to empathize. So they say and do strange-seeming things, without any concern for how others will take it.
Now put those people on the same site as 'channers, trolls, and the people who make RL the meatgrinder it is, who just happen to share their interest in furry. What happens when you give trolls such easy targets? "Drama llamas" are the same people that trolls have always destroyed and invalidated. They're just making themselves vulnerable in a supposed safe space. They feel just confident enough to speak their minds for the first time, after years of being told not to. And because they've never had the kind of friendships that help people learn how to relate, or learned ways of dealing with trolls, drama happens.
Saying that the solution is for them to grow up misses the point. Trolling and intolerance caused the problem before llamas even found the Internet. They damaged these human beings and turned them into perpetual prey. And I'm sure it feels good to tell the prey animals they should stop being so tasty, but it takes a lot more work (and consideration) to create a world -- or a fandom -- that doesn't make so many people turn out this way.
So these people find this wonderful, magical place online, where they can explore feelings they'd never had or felt safe expressing anyplace else. But they feel shame about it, because everything outside the fandom tells them they're awful low-lifes and sad excuses for human beings. It doesn't help that many of them really are socially crippled, because after going through the meatgrinder of RL society (one that won't even acknowledge the damage it does) they have limited ability to communicate and to empathize. So they say and do strange-seeming things, without any concern for how others will take it.
Now put those people on the same site as 'channers, trolls, and the people who make RL the meatgrinder it is, who just happen to share their interest in furry. What happens when you give trolls such easy targets? "Drama llamas" are the same people that trolls have always destroyed and invalidated. They're just making themselves vulnerable in a supposed safe space. They feel just confident enough to speak their minds for the first time, after years of being told not to. And because they've never had the kind of friendships that help people learn how to relate, or learned ways of dealing with trolls, drama happens.
Saying that the solution is for them to grow up misses the point. Trolling and intolerance caused the problem before llamas even found the Internet. They damaged these human beings and turned them into perpetual prey. And I'm sure it feels good to tell the prey animals they should stop being so tasty, but it takes a lot more work (and consideration) to create a world -- or a fandom -- that doesn't make so many people turn out this way.
Actually, come to think of it, that all applies to many trolls too.
They're really peeved about certain things ("Why does he get special treatment and I don't? There's nothing wrong with him!" "When will she learn to shut upabout Twilight!" "Why won't the idiots running this country learn to pay attention to me!?") but they've also been told that their feelings are unacceptable. I mean, they're often wrong, but you don't develop more nuanced views of things by being told to shut up. So they only express their feelings in unacceptable ways.
They hate the whiners and idiots who cause them such stress, and it feels good to them to make them suffer. Trolling, for them, is not just recreation, but a way to make the world a better place; they're telling the emperor that he has no clothes. They seem sociopathic partly because they get carried away, and partly because they don't have the emotional energy to care. They've spent all of their energy dealing with stress, and this is their way of relieving it.
It doesn't work to condemn them, because they love to see people overreact. Words don't stop trolls, actions do; leave the chat, ban the user, create an environment where there's zero tolerance. For trolls or self-centered drama. Even llamas and trolls can learn to behave when they know it's expected of them. And when they see what a place is like where others treat them with respect, maybe they'll want to stick around.
They're really peeved about certain things ("Why does he get special treatment and I don't? There's nothing wrong with him!" "When will she learn to shut upabout Twilight!" "Why won't the idiots running this country learn to pay attention to me!?") but they've also been told that their feelings are unacceptable. I mean, they're often wrong, but you don't develop more nuanced views of things by being told to shut up. So they only express their feelings in unacceptable ways.
They hate the whiners and idiots who cause them such stress, and it feels good to them to make them suffer. Trolling, for them, is not just recreation, but a way to make the world a better place; they're telling the emperor that he has no clothes. They seem sociopathic partly because they get carried away, and partly because they don't have the emotional energy to care. They've spent all of their energy dealing with stress, and this is their way of relieving it.
It doesn't work to condemn them, because they love to see people overreact. Words don't stop trolls, actions do; leave the chat, ban the user, create an environment where there's zero tolerance. For trolls or self-centered drama. Even llamas and trolls can learn to behave when they know it's expected of them. And when they see what a place is like where others treat them with respect, maybe they'll want to stick around.
quite good, I enjoyed reading this.
I dont know about others reasons for coming in, I came in for a couple, one I felt the need to expand my talent in artwork and craftsmenship, to increase my social circle which goes far beyond the fandom, I've joined engineering clubs, snowboarding groups, visit renaissance fairs, Church activities ad stuff. to me the fandom is a great facet of my life where I can have something in common with other people. Heck when I first bought a fursuit, I didnt consider myself a furry yet, I was inspired by sports mascots and theme park suiters. professional furries whos job was to entertain and make people laugh and smile. I guess thats what I imagine the fandom to be is lots of people who enjoy each others company, talents, and the ability to be entertainers.
on the subject of shame, I think part of it has to do with stereotyping. I'm normally pretty open with who I am, heck my fursuit is on facebook, most of my rl friends know because its not a big deal. however I have noticed I still feel some need to keep it somewhat covered. not that I'm ashamed of being a furry, but being stereotyped by what others think the fandom or being a furry is, kind a like what francisthebiker was saying, supposedly were all here to date other furries, I really dont need people making assumptions like i'm a furry for porn, selfesteem issues, being a wierdo all the bs that people have made up about us.
I dont know about others reasons for coming in, I came in for a couple, one I felt the need to expand my talent in artwork and craftsmenship, to increase my social circle which goes far beyond the fandom, I've joined engineering clubs, snowboarding groups, visit renaissance fairs, Church activities ad stuff. to me the fandom is a great facet of my life where I can have something in common with other people. Heck when I first bought a fursuit, I didnt consider myself a furry yet, I was inspired by sports mascots and theme park suiters. professional furries whos job was to entertain and make people laugh and smile. I guess thats what I imagine the fandom to be is lots of people who enjoy each others company, talents, and the ability to be entertainers.
on the subject of shame, I think part of it has to do with stereotyping. I'm normally pretty open with who I am, heck my fursuit is on facebook, most of my rl friends know because its not a big deal. however I have noticed I still feel some need to keep it somewhat covered. not that I'm ashamed of being a furry, but being stereotyped by what others think the fandom or being a furry is, kind a like what francisthebiker was saying, supposedly were all here to date other furries, I really dont need people making assumptions like i'm a furry for porn, selfesteem issues, being a wierdo all the bs that people have made up about us.
Very well written, you made a lot of good points. I think the fandom's fine as a means of temporary/occasional escape, but when it gets in the way of real life, you need to step back and re-evaluate your involvement in it. To me it's about having fun and just pretending from time to time, and getting to spend time with others who don't mind pretending too. It's not about being someone or something I'm not, and it's certainly not about sex.
Fantastic journal/submission..
Personally, I started in the fandom because I was curious. I knew a little about furries, but wasn't extremely educated on neither the good side, nor the bad side. I just thought it was another 'club' or 'section' on the internet. But when I saw one artist's art, it really made me consider getting into the fandom.
No, I'm not here just because of the escape from life, but it is a FANTASTIC luxury. I have friends irl, I do things outside the fandom. I'm actually buying non-furry clothing and apparel with my commission money (or at least I will).
Furry, to me, is more of a comforting label, as well as something I really adore. I've always loved animals, and when I was younger wished I could turn into one, just to see what it was like. I don't express this in the furry fandom, I'm the artist more or less, but that strong love for animals and art is the main reason I'm here.
/text wall
my apologies
Personally, I started in the fandom because I was curious. I knew a little about furries, but wasn't extremely educated on neither the good side, nor the bad side. I just thought it was another 'club' or 'section' on the internet. But when I saw one artist's art, it really made me consider getting into the fandom.
No, I'm not here just because of the escape from life, but it is a FANTASTIC luxury. I have friends irl, I do things outside the fandom. I'm actually buying non-furry clothing and apparel with my commission money (or at least I will).
Furry, to me, is more of a comforting label, as well as something I really adore. I've always loved animals, and when I was younger wished I could turn into one, just to see what it was like. I don't express this in the furry fandom, I'm the artist more or less, but that strong love for animals and art is the main reason I'm here.
/text wall
my apologies
Personally, I find it difficult to talk to people outside of the fandom about furries - even when i don't use the word "Furry" but "Anthro artist" - because I don't want to be misunderstood and percieved as a pervert, which, let's face it, almost the entire world outside of the fandom would immediately think.
Ah well. No one needs to know anyway. XD
Ah well. No one needs to know anyway. XD
I do use my Furry side as a mean of escaping reality, since coping with human beings has been a terrible experience all my life.
I personally belive that being a Furry is all about deniying our human identity. I´m tolerant and respectful towards others thoughts, but anyone that doesn´t take this as an escape from humanity, I can´t consither them a true Furry. I don´t blame the fandom because I´ve been a Furry many years before I even knew what the actual "Furry" word meant. And no, I´m not a perverted sex adict, I don´t have any fetish and I have no interest on meeting people to have meaningless sex inside a canine suit, either male or female.
Bottom line is that WE CAN NOT DEFINE WHAT A FURRY IS, OR WHAT A FURRY HAS TO BE. Some people just see it as fetish, others see it as an artistic expression, others see it as an escape. Nevertheless, "normal" people will always see us as delusional perverts, which although unfortunately there are people like these in the fandom, it is not what a Furry really is.
So lets stop criticizing each other, and telling what we should or should not be.
I know this journal is old, but I just found it. Awsome study you did, although it contradicts the purpose of the movement.
:3
I personally belive that being a Furry is all about deniying our human identity. I´m tolerant and respectful towards others thoughts, but anyone that doesn´t take this as an escape from humanity, I can´t consither them a true Furry. I don´t blame the fandom because I´ve been a Furry many years before I even knew what the actual "Furry" word meant. And no, I´m not a perverted sex adict, I don´t have any fetish and I have no interest on meeting people to have meaningless sex inside a canine suit, either male or female.
Bottom line is that WE CAN NOT DEFINE WHAT A FURRY IS, OR WHAT A FURRY HAS TO BE. Some people just see it as fetish, others see it as an artistic expression, others see it as an escape. Nevertheless, "normal" people will always see us as delusional perverts, which although unfortunately there are people like these in the fandom, it is not what a Furry really is.
So lets stop criticizing each other, and telling what we should or should not be.
I know this journal is old, but I just found it. Awsome study you did, although it contradicts the purpose of the movement.
:3
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to be human. Our species, as a whole, is composed of selfish, manipulative parasites who destroy far more than create.
I PERSONALLY am in the fandom because I would rather be my 'sona, and I'm sorry if you don't like it because of your own personal issues with things you don't agree with about some of the indivuals here. I don't see why I, or others like me, should be judged for something which harms no one and is a deeply personal choice. You say you don't like drama? This is only fuel for the fire. *shrug* The fandom means different things for different people. If it is their identity, so be it. Who are you to say they are wrong?
I PERSONALLY am in the fandom because I would rather be my 'sona, and I'm sorry if you don't like it because of your own personal issues with things you don't agree with about some of the indivuals here. I don't see why I, or others like me, should be judged for something which harms no one and is a deeply personal choice. You say you don't like drama? This is only fuel for the fire. *shrug* The fandom means different things for different people. If it is their identity, so be it. Who are you to say they are wrong?
I actually enjoyed this statement, because it defines humanity rather nicely as well as how I feel about the fandom in general and myself being a fur. Yes I said fur.
One thing I'd like to really point out here, and it's a big common misconception alot of people have about human societies both past and present, and that is this:
In the span of all known human history, the majority of people who've made up the various cultures and societies of the human race are really no different from the ones who exist today. Ignorance and intolerance are at fairly the same levels as they were a hundred years ago.
You think the Romans were educated, walking around in togas while reciting poems and discussing philosophy with one another? HELL NO! They drew pornographic pictures (mostly phallic symbols, for some reason Romans had all kinds of stuff depicting and even, yes, made from male genitalia) on building walls and such, spoke in slang, were mostly illiterate and generally gave no fucks at all about anything that did not directly effect them. So long as there was food on the table and something to fuck, they didn't care.
Fast forwards to the Victorian era, in London. Alot of us think that this time of great discovery and artistic growth was another golden age, but infact again most people living in London were packed into a city that was quite honestly a foul cholera and tuberculosis ridden cesspool of incest (this continued all the way up until the late 1800s), corruption, gang violence, and of course illiteracy. Most people who could read often read pornographic stories that were printed in pamphlets and looked at pictures of hairy naked women (a popular fetish then) in lewd poses.
I could go on, but honestly I think the point is made. The more you get to know the human race and it's history the more you see the fact that really the only change we've had is the expansion and access to media through technology. Some blame the internet for 'creating' flawed human beings and twisted modes of thought. When in reality, technology doesn't create these flaws in humanity, it just exposes it.
One thing I'd like to really point out here, and it's a big common misconception alot of people have about human societies both past and present, and that is this:
In the span of all known human history, the majority of people who've made up the various cultures and societies of the human race are really no different from the ones who exist today. Ignorance and intolerance are at fairly the same levels as they were a hundred years ago.
You think the Romans were educated, walking around in togas while reciting poems and discussing philosophy with one another? HELL NO! They drew pornographic pictures (mostly phallic symbols, for some reason Romans had all kinds of stuff depicting and even, yes, made from male genitalia) on building walls and such, spoke in slang, were mostly illiterate and generally gave no fucks at all about anything that did not directly effect them. So long as there was food on the table and something to fuck, they didn't care.
Fast forwards to the Victorian era, in London. Alot of us think that this time of great discovery and artistic growth was another golden age, but infact again most people living in London were packed into a city that was quite honestly a foul cholera and tuberculosis ridden cesspool of incest (this continued all the way up until the late 1800s), corruption, gang violence, and of course illiteracy. Most people who could read often read pornographic stories that were printed in pamphlets and looked at pictures of hairy naked women (a popular fetish then) in lewd poses.
I could go on, but honestly I think the point is made. The more you get to know the human race and it's history the more you see the fact that really the only change we've had is the expansion and access to media through technology. Some blame the internet for 'creating' flawed human beings and twisted modes of thought. When in reality, technology doesn't create these flaws in humanity, it just exposes it.
"people aren't necessarily coming here because they actually LIKE anthropomorphic art, characters, stories, comics, etc. They just want to come here because it seems to be an easy place to hang out and not have to deal with everyday life"
that's................ literally the point of every fandom ever? in fact it's kinda the whole point of all fiction ever - a fantastical break from our mundane lives. and so far as i know most everyone around here does live a surprisingly normal life aside from how often they draw dog dick in their downtime. frankly i'll take some bastard who just enjoys making friends with furwads then someone who takes this here erratic hobby as anything more then just that. there ain't anything sacred aboot being a furperson and tbqh most people who actually take the fandom seriously are total dickgobbles
that's................ literally the point of every fandom ever? in fact it's kinda the whole point of all fiction ever - a fantastical break from our mundane lives. and so far as i know most everyone around here does live a surprisingly normal life aside from how often they draw dog dick in their downtime. frankly i'll take some bastard who just enjoys making friends with furwads then someone who takes this here erratic hobby as anything more then just that. there ain't anything sacred aboot being a furperson and tbqh most people who actually take the fandom seriously are total dickgobbles
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