Our collective freedom of speech is under attack, and the media icons we all look up to and rely on to defend our rights are caving in (see below). If we do not stand up for our rights nobody will.
THIS WILL NOT BE SOLVED BY CELEBRITIES.
If we will ever regain our full freedom of speech and expression we will have to face the fear ourselves. The front lines of the war on terrorism are everywhere, and we will fight this war from our homes and laptops. Images such as this will only become acceptable when they are everywhere and there are no longer specific targets to threaten. So draw the prophet Muhammad! Come on, everybody, draw! This is your freedom at stake here!
Finally, I would like to say that this is NOT about persecuting Muslims or their faith. I do not mean to insult any person's beliefs, and once the freedoms of American citizens are fully restored I will stop this meme. Right now, however, there are greater things at stake. So nothing personal.
Transcript from LARRY KING LIVE:
KING: Seth MacFarlane, the Emmy winning creator of "The Family Guy," "The Cleveland Show" and "American Dad" remains with us. It's his show tonight.
And we're joined now by the supporting cast. Penn Jillette, magician, comedian, author and libertarian. He is the taller talkative half of "Penn and Teller." They play at the Rio in Las Vegas. They also have a serious called "B.S." on Showtime.
And Rachael Harris, the actress and comedienne. Her film credits include the "The Hangover," one of the funniest movies ever made, and "Dairy of a Wimpy Kid." She also been a correspondent on "The Daily Show."
All right, guys. As we mentioned, the creators of "South Park" are being threatened with possible assassination because they show included a representation of the Prophet Mohammed. Here's a clip from that episode.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARTOON CHARACTER: You said you wanted (EXPLETIVE DELETED). We got him for you.
CARTOON CHARACTER: We have no way of knowing if (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is really in there. It could be a trick.
CARTOON CHARACTER: It's not a trick, dude. My friend and I were like super best friends and brought him here.
CARTOON CHARACTER: Then have him step out of the bear costume. You have until the count of 10. One --
CARTOON CHARACTER: Don't do it, randy. If (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is seen we could get bombed.
CARTOON CHARACTER: Idiot. If he isn't seen, we are definitely about to be bombed.
CARTOON CHARACTER: All right, all right. Stop. We'll do what you say. I'm sorry (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Will you please step out of the bear costume?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: OK. Fair, unfair, funny, what? Penn?
PENN JILLETTE, MAGICIAN & COMEDIAN: Well, I don't think we -- any of us can say anything about anything to do with Islam. I don't think you're allowed to say it. I think it's too dangerous and I think when people like Matt and Trey who are some of the best writers and the most talented people alive today are threatened like that, everybody should be very, very scared. It says nothing about Matt and Trey. It only speaks to Islam.
KING: Rachel?
RACHAEL HARRIS, ACTRESS & COMEDIAN: Wow. Well, my opinion is a little bit different. I feel like -- well, first of all, the guy that are watching the Muslim Revolution, right? I mean, if they're going to turn on "South Park" and they're going to watch it, they should kind of know what they're getting into. It's not -- you know, it is as if --
KING: It is what it is?
HARRIS: Exactly. I feel like if you're going to watch the show --
JILLETTE: I believe they believe the very existence of that is an affront to their religion. It's not a question of they don't want to see it, it's not a question of taste. It's a question of morality. Isn't that what they're claiming?
HARRIS: Right. But then they should go after every organization or every comic that's ever said anything and said and threatened to kill them.
JILLETTE: I think they plan to.
HARRIS: Right. But I --
KING: Let's ask Mr. MacFarlane's thoughts.
MACFARLANE: I mean, look, it's no secret. I think any combination of angry plus deity equals nuts equals danger. You know, the question becomes: at what point is it -- is it worth it? At what point is it worth it for them to, you know, put themselves at risk? Is the joke so hilarious that we want to risk our lives?
And that's -- I don't know, if I were in that situation, honestly, I don't know how I would react.
JILLETTE: They certainly have other ways. Trey and Matt can get laughs doing anything at all. They're the best among us. So, it's not a question of doing it for the laugh. There is a moral element to this.
HARRIS: But didn't also Comedy Central then step in and sort of monkey around with that episode in a way that they were unaware of putting it on the air?
MACFARLANE: There's no way to tell. I mean, if -- there's no way to know. If it were me and I was in the situation, it was like, well, do I -- again, is this -- is this worth getting shot?
HARRIS: Right.
MACFARLANE: Is it the funniest joke anyone has written?
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: You think they knew that going in?
JILLETTE: I believe it's in the Koran. I believe that that information is available.
HARRIS: No.
JILLETTE: They think they're not supposed to do that.
HARRIS: But do you think that they really thought that this would be something that would be -- that their life would get threatened? I mean, I think if being --
KING: Why would they do something to threaten --
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: Right. I think obviously wouldn't do it.
JILLETTE: I don't know about that. When you do something with a strong -- I mean, I think you cheapen Matt and Trey's morality, strength and courage when you say, is the joke worth it? Because the question is, what is morally right? And as strong as the religious side is and believing what's morally right, Matt and Trey have the strongest moral compass I know and they're very, very good men --
MACFARLANE: Let's not get hysterical.
JILLETTE: No. I think it's very true. I think it is a moral issue. It's not just the comedy.
KING: OK. Let met get a break.
THIS WILL NOT BE SOLVED BY CELEBRITIES.
If we will ever regain our full freedom of speech and expression we will have to face the fear ourselves. The front lines of the war on terrorism are everywhere, and we will fight this war from our homes and laptops. Images such as this will only become acceptable when they are everywhere and there are no longer specific targets to threaten. So draw the prophet Muhammad! Come on, everybody, draw! This is your freedom at stake here!
Finally, I would like to say that this is NOT about persecuting Muslims or their faith. I do not mean to insult any person's beliefs, and once the freedoms of American citizens are fully restored I will stop this meme. Right now, however, there are greater things at stake. So nothing personal.
Transcript from LARRY KING LIVE:
KING: Seth MacFarlane, the Emmy winning creator of "The Family Guy," "The Cleveland Show" and "American Dad" remains with us. It's his show tonight.
And we're joined now by the supporting cast. Penn Jillette, magician, comedian, author and libertarian. He is the taller talkative half of "Penn and Teller." They play at the Rio in Las Vegas. They also have a serious called "B.S." on Showtime.
And Rachael Harris, the actress and comedienne. Her film credits include the "The Hangover," one of the funniest movies ever made, and "Dairy of a Wimpy Kid." She also been a correspondent on "The Daily Show."
All right, guys. As we mentioned, the creators of "South Park" are being threatened with possible assassination because they show included a representation of the Prophet Mohammed. Here's a clip from that episode.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARTOON CHARACTER: You said you wanted (EXPLETIVE DELETED). We got him for you.
CARTOON CHARACTER: We have no way of knowing if (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is really in there. It could be a trick.
CARTOON CHARACTER: It's not a trick, dude. My friend and I were like super best friends and brought him here.
CARTOON CHARACTER: Then have him step out of the bear costume. You have until the count of 10. One --
CARTOON CHARACTER: Don't do it, randy. If (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is seen we could get bombed.
CARTOON CHARACTER: Idiot. If he isn't seen, we are definitely about to be bombed.
CARTOON CHARACTER: All right, all right. Stop. We'll do what you say. I'm sorry (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Will you please step out of the bear costume?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: OK. Fair, unfair, funny, what? Penn?
PENN JILLETTE, MAGICIAN & COMEDIAN: Well, I don't think we -- any of us can say anything about anything to do with Islam. I don't think you're allowed to say it. I think it's too dangerous and I think when people like Matt and Trey who are some of the best writers and the most talented people alive today are threatened like that, everybody should be very, very scared. It says nothing about Matt and Trey. It only speaks to Islam.
KING: Rachel?
RACHAEL HARRIS, ACTRESS & COMEDIAN: Wow. Well, my opinion is a little bit different. I feel like -- well, first of all, the guy that are watching the Muslim Revolution, right? I mean, if they're going to turn on "South Park" and they're going to watch it, they should kind of know what they're getting into. It's not -- you know, it is as if --
KING: It is what it is?
HARRIS: Exactly. I feel like if you're going to watch the show --
JILLETTE: I believe they believe the very existence of that is an affront to their religion. It's not a question of they don't want to see it, it's not a question of taste. It's a question of morality. Isn't that what they're claiming?
HARRIS: Right. But then they should go after every organization or every comic that's ever said anything and said and threatened to kill them.
JILLETTE: I think they plan to.
HARRIS: Right. But I --
KING: Let's ask Mr. MacFarlane's thoughts.
MACFARLANE: I mean, look, it's no secret. I think any combination of angry plus deity equals nuts equals danger. You know, the question becomes: at what point is it -- is it worth it? At what point is it worth it for them to, you know, put themselves at risk? Is the joke so hilarious that we want to risk our lives?
And that's -- I don't know, if I were in that situation, honestly, I don't know how I would react.
JILLETTE: They certainly have other ways. Trey and Matt can get laughs doing anything at all. They're the best among us. So, it's not a question of doing it for the laugh. There is a moral element to this.
HARRIS: But didn't also Comedy Central then step in and sort of monkey around with that episode in a way that they were unaware of putting it on the air?
MACFARLANE: There's no way to tell. I mean, if -- there's no way to know. If it were me and I was in the situation, it was like, well, do I -- again, is this -- is this worth getting shot?
HARRIS: Right.
MACFARLANE: Is it the funniest joke anyone has written?
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: You think they knew that going in?
JILLETTE: I believe it's in the Koran. I believe that that information is available.
HARRIS: No.
JILLETTE: They think they're not supposed to do that.
HARRIS: But do you think that they really thought that this would be something that would be -- that their life would get threatened? I mean, I think if being --
KING: Why would they do something to threaten --
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: Right. I think obviously wouldn't do it.
JILLETTE: I don't know about that. When you do something with a strong -- I mean, I think you cheapen Matt and Trey's morality, strength and courage when you say, is the joke worth it? Because the question is, what is morally right? And as strong as the religious side is and believing what's morally right, Matt and Trey have the strongest moral compass I know and they're very, very good men --
MACFARLANE: Let's not get hysterical.
JILLETTE: No. I think it's very true. I think it is a moral issue. It's not just the comedy.
KING: OK. Let met get a break.
Category Artwork (Traditional) / Human
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 600 x 617px
File Size 198 kB
His twitter said he was trying to juggle speaking how he felt and trying to keep both Muslims and the three liberals around him from overpowering him. Regardless I felt he still was the dominant voice.
Seth's kinda a pussy, yes, though realistic I suppose. I'm gonna stand with Penn though and his stance of defending freedoms no matter the risk.
Seth's kinda a pussy, yes, though realistic I suppose. I'm gonna stand with Penn though and his stance of defending freedoms no matter the risk.
I've been looking for video but thus far there's only parts from the solo-Seth interview. :C
But yeah, I think even Penn kinda fears talking about this. I'd LOVE to see a Bullshit! episode about violent religious radicalism, but I don't think that's ever gonna happen either due to the totally real fear of violence or just the media networks not being that courageous, even Showtime.
But yeah, I think even Penn kinda fears talking about this. I'd LOVE to see a Bullshit! episode about violent religious radicalism, but I don't think that's ever gonna happen either due to the totally real fear of violence or just the media networks not being that courageous, even Showtime.
Actually I don't think Islam is actually peaceful? I think the Koran says in various places to commit violence and murder against those who do blasphemy.
...Then again, so does the Bible. :B The similarity is that most religious followers don't act on the strict violent rules in their respective books. The difference is that the Christian radicals respond with verbal outrage and the Muslim radicals respond with straight-up homicide.
...Then again, so does the Bible. :B The similarity is that most religious followers don't act on the strict violent rules in their respective books. The difference is that the Christian radicals respond with verbal outrage and the Muslim radicals respond with straight-up homicide.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.c...../genocide.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.c.....t/holywar.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.c.....t/stoning.html
Its just the Judeo-Christian-Islamic faith system :B
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.c.....t/holywar.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.c.....t/stoning.html
Its just the Judeo-Christian-Islamic faith system :B
Well I don't follow those religions, so why should I be forced to conform to them?
I get offended every time I see Jesus on South Park, but in the end that interpretation of his isn't really him at all. I just deal with it and move on. Sometimes laugh.
I get offended every time I see Jesus on South Park, but in the end that interpretation of his isn't really him at all. I just deal with it and move on. Sometimes laugh.
at this point I want to do a Jon Stewart impersonation, after putting on a muhammed costume... just walk in front of a national television camera and say "hi, i'm a representation of muhammed, and all you extremist muslims that think I should be shot, despite being HERE IN AMERICA... can go fuck yourselves..."
seriously, I think if the guy were around, he'd probably bitch-slap all the people that keep him on this fuckin pedastal... "listen to me, laugh at me, respect me..."
then again, I fall back to an old saying I have about my own faith... "If you believe in something enough to DIE for it, you damn well better be able to laugh at it"
seriously, I think if the guy were around, he'd probably bitch-slap all the people that keep him on this fuckin pedastal... "listen to me, laugh at me, respect me..."
then again, I fall back to an old saying I have about my own faith... "If you believe in something enough to DIE for it, you damn well better be able to laugh at it"
I'm getting a little pissed off by this really
I totally love freedom of speech, I have no doubt it will ever get taken away from us because we so strongly believe in it.
But can we just stop with provoking muslim people with drawings of mohammed for the sake of freedom of speech? It stains a beautiful right. It's like having your character drawn getting raped (or soemthing else you don't want your character get used for) by everyone around the world.
Those people hold this character very dear and everyone around the world is just raping it shoving the muslim folk a middlefinger up the bum in the name of free speach. It's both an insult to islam and not how I'd like freedom of speach get used.
It's how we always have thought about freedom of speach, feel free to speak your opinion, but let's also respect another person's beliefs and values.
I totally love freedom of speech, I have no doubt it will ever get taken away from us because we so strongly believe in it.
But can we just stop with provoking muslim people with drawings of mohammed for the sake of freedom of speech? It stains a beautiful right. It's like having your character drawn getting raped (or soemthing else you don't want your character get used for) by everyone around the world.
Those people hold this character very dear and everyone around the world is just raping it shoving the muslim folk a middlefinger up the bum in the name of free speach. It's both an insult to islam and not how I'd like freedom of speach get used.
It's how we always have thought about freedom of speach, feel free to speak your opinion, but let's also respect another person's beliefs and values.
NO.
You're getting it wrong.
I stated in my description I respect all Muslim people and am actually sorry I have to post this, but freedom of speech is more important right now than adhering to another's religious beliefs. People are being KILLED because they drew something, and people in a country of free speech people are afraid to speak freely. This is a war against terrorism. If it makes some people uncomfortable they don't have to look.
The bottom line is if I want to draw your character being raped I can. If I want to draw Muhammad being raped I can. I won't, but that's because I CHOOSE too. And until that is my choice, and not somebody else's, I will have to reinforce my right. Simply saying I have a right to draw Muhammad does nothing if people are still scared to do so. A stand must be taken.
Every right is stained by the blood of those who died to defend it. That's why they all must be protected.
You're getting it wrong.
I stated in my description I respect all Muslim people and am actually sorry I have to post this, but freedom of speech is more important right now than adhering to another's religious beliefs. People are being KILLED because they drew something, and people in a country of free speech people are afraid to speak freely. This is a war against terrorism. If it makes some people uncomfortable they don't have to look.
The bottom line is if I want to draw your character being raped I can. If I want to draw Muhammad being raped I can. I won't, but that's because I CHOOSE too. And until that is my choice, and not somebody else's, I will have to reinforce my right. Simply saying I have a right to draw Muhammad does nothing if people are still scared to do so. A stand must be taken.
Every right is stained by the blood of those who died to defend it. That's why they all must be protected.
And the reason WHY you choose not to draw my character getting raped is because you respect me. Just because you can draw it doesn't mean you should.
How is it any different from posting Foshu getting raped? You WILL get in trouble for it; I'll be pissed, several other people will be pissed, probably the admins swinging their hammer at your face for usning my character without consent and such and such. Just because you're free to draw it doesn't mean you shouldn't expect any consequences, good or bad. You're making a statement with your art and opinions, you will get a response.
Radical muslims carry those responses too far, yesh but that doesn't mean the entire western world needs to make islam victim in a butthurt cry for freedom. The islam is not what people fighting for freedom of speach are against, it's radicals, terrorists what have you. Insulting an entire nation of people is just a very misguided act in an attempt to target only a silly fraction of assholes in the islam, because we do so love to generalize people we don't really care about.
I hope you learn to respect other people's beliefs, even though you have the right to shit on them. Like you said, this is a war against terrorism, not against all muslim people.
How is it any different from posting Foshu getting raped? You WILL get in trouble for it; I'll be pissed, several other people will be pissed, probably the admins swinging their hammer at your face for usning my character without consent and such and such. Just because you're free to draw it doesn't mean you shouldn't expect any consequences, good or bad. You're making a statement with your art and opinions, you will get a response.
Radical muslims carry those responses too far, yesh but that doesn't mean the entire western world needs to make islam victim in a butthurt cry for freedom. The islam is not what people fighting for freedom of speach are against, it's radicals, terrorists what have you. Insulting an entire nation of people is just a very misguided act in an attempt to target only a silly fraction of assholes in the islam, because we do so love to generalize people we don't really care about.
I hope you learn to respect other people's beliefs, even though you have the right to shit on them. Like you said, this is a war against terrorism, not against all muslim people.
People don't get to have their rights restricted and taken away simply because other people can possibly be or are insulted by the possible results. Doing something and having the ability to do something are entirely different things.
It's not about making fun of Islam, it's about stating that, as Americans, we have the right to choose to do something like this. And we have the right to choose to suffer the consequences of the action. Stank realizes that by depicting your character in rape, you and many other people would get angry. Depicting Muhammad like this would, if Muslim radicals cared about furries, get Stank some threats and insults thrown at him.
Why doesn't he get the right to make that decision of his own will? Because people threaten him with retribution? That ain't gonna fly.
It's not about making fun of Islam, it's about stating that, as Americans, we have the right to choose to do something like this. And we have the right to choose to suffer the consequences of the action. Stank realizes that by depicting your character in rape, you and many other people would get angry. Depicting Muhammad like this would, if Muslim radicals cared about furries, get Stank some threats and insults thrown at him.
Why doesn't he get the right to make that decision of his own will? Because people threaten him with retribution? That ain't gonna fly.
No law states you shouldn't be allowed to say anything you want, no rights are being restricted at all. It's a few radicals that threaten to kill people that insult what they believe in, scaring people that believe in a freedom of speach to stop insulting them.
We still should respect one another. What are you going to achieve throwing insults halfway across the earth? It's so cowardly. You wouldn't show a muslim a drawing of mohammed in person, because you'll just make them angry and you don't want to get in trouble or because you respect that person's beliefs. If everyone draws a picture, you all hide behind the safety of masses under the pretense you're making a stand for freedom, but really you're cowards bullying another nation to acknowledge that what they think is sacred can be taken away from them if you feel like it.
We still should respect one another. What are you going to achieve throwing insults halfway across the earth? It's so cowardly. You wouldn't show a muslim a drawing of mohammed in person, because you'll just make them angry and you don't want to get in trouble or because you respect that person's beliefs. If everyone draws a picture, you all hide behind the safety of masses under the pretense you're making a stand for freedom, but really you're cowards bullying another nation to acknowledge that what they think is sacred can be taken away from them if you feel like it.
Well, YES, the right of being able to do something like this is certainly being restricted when a cartoon doing something MUCH LESS THAN THIS, putting Muhammad on TV by putting a person in a BEAR SUIT on-screen and SAYING it's Muhammad (even when it turns out it actually isn't later in the episode!), and they get forcibly censored because of the fear of the death threats. While understandable and realistic, it doesn't make it right in any sense of the word.
And you know what? If a Muslim walked up to me in real life and said (for some reason) I couldn't draw and show the prophet Muhammad, I would, in fact, do it right there in front of him. I really would, I'm not lying or trying to sound big. If a person in real life told me I couldn't do something like these radicals have told us behind the guise of the Internet, I'd prove them wrong and do it.
It's not about hurting other people's feelings on purpose, you need to stop treating this like some sort of attack on all Islam. It's a political statement about our right to do what we want because we are guaranteed this right, not about insulting a religion. Besides, so what if they're insulted? They have the right to be mad at me. Don't restrict MY right to insult someone and don't restrict OTHER PEOPLES' rights to be angry at me.
And where do you draw a line? What if someone were insulted that I draw inflation porn and told me I couldn't? Should I stop because I'm hurting their feelings? Or what if I draw Disney-style art? Or I just draw furries period? Furries insult a lot of people apparently and they threaten us with death, as completely non-serious as they may be. Maybe we should all stop drawing furries so we stop insulting them?
And you know what? If a Muslim walked up to me in real life and said (for some reason) I couldn't draw and show the prophet Muhammad, I would, in fact, do it right there in front of him. I really would, I'm not lying or trying to sound big. If a person in real life told me I couldn't do something like these radicals have told us behind the guise of the Internet, I'd prove them wrong and do it.
It's not about hurting other people's feelings on purpose, you need to stop treating this like some sort of attack on all Islam. It's a political statement about our right to do what we want because we are guaranteed this right, not about insulting a religion. Besides, so what if they're insulted? They have the right to be mad at me. Don't restrict MY right to insult someone and don't restrict OTHER PEOPLES' rights to be angry at me.
And where do you draw a line? What if someone were insulted that I draw inflation porn and told me I couldn't? Should I stop because I'm hurting their feelings? Or what if I draw Disney-style art? Or I just draw furries period? Furries insult a lot of people apparently and they threaten us with death, as completely non-serious as they may be. Maybe we should all stop drawing furries so we stop insulting them?
It's not about wanting to insult someone, it really is not, honestly and truly. It just... has to be done sometimes to make a point. An unfortunate result. I swear nobody is doing this just to make fun of Muslims.
And, well... everyone gets offended by something. Everyone takes things said about their beliefs or groups as personal insults. Hell, we're talking about this stuff like this because WE'RE offended as Americans (mostly actually just defending our rights, but, y'know, it's pretty insulting that they think they can push us around, too). It's just something that happens with humans, probably something to do with social evolution with early humans grouping into tribes, attacking other tribes, evolving into villages and towns and cities and civilizations and so on and so forth, something silly like that.
It's a crappy end result, but it's just something that we need to deal with as humans I guess.
And, well... everyone gets offended by something. Everyone takes things said about their beliefs or groups as personal insults. Hell, we're talking about this stuff like this because WE'RE offended as Americans (mostly actually just defending our rights, but, y'know, it's pretty insulting that they think they can push us around, too). It's just something that happens with humans, probably something to do with social evolution with early humans grouping into tribes, attacking other tribes, evolving into villages and towns and cities and civilizations and so on and so forth, something silly like that.
It's a crappy end result, but it's just something that we need to deal with as humans I guess.
Islam does not get a free ride from satire and insult. It ESPECIALLY does not get a free ride because homicidal radicals think it gets one, and if they don't get one, they will feel threaten to kill us (and sometimes WILL kill us) for not giving them one.
I respect ALL religions and faiths; it is my personal belief that everybody needs something to believe in whether it be spiritual, mental, or goal-oriented, and while I myself am atheist and can go on and on about religions like any other atheist can, that's not what this is about. I also know fully well that the vast, vast majority of Muslims are in fact awesome people who don't want to kill us in the slightest. I'm not one of those idiots who think the radical minority is a representation of the majority.
But what's going on here is that a group thinks they get an exception to our rule of free speech, and if they're slighted, they can go and kill the person who slighted them. That is NOT kosher and never WILL be kosher. It's not about Islam or Muhammad: if some other group were forbidding people from depicting one of their icons under threat of death, this exact same thing would be happening.
It's not an issue of tact, it's an issue of not giving up OUR rights just because someone ELSE is insulted or murderous. If I wanna insult someone, I have the right to do so. If I wanna insult something someone believes in, I have the right to do so. If I wanna draw a religious figure sodomized, by GodJesusAllahBuddha, I have the right to do so under the Constitution, and I DEFINITELY have the right to do so without the threat of being killed. It doesn't mean that I WILL, but just because I won't doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to.
I'm going to quote the aforementioned Penn Jillette. "You know what the proper place and time for free speech is? Every-fucking-where and al-fucking-ways." The rights and comfort of the group do not override the rights of the individual.
I respect ALL religions and faiths; it is my personal belief that everybody needs something to believe in whether it be spiritual, mental, or goal-oriented, and while I myself am atheist and can go on and on about religions like any other atheist can, that's not what this is about. I also know fully well that the vast, vast majority of Muslims are in fact awesome people who don't want to kill us in the slightest. I'm not one of those idiots who think the radical minority is a representation of the majority.
But what's going on here is that a group thinks they get an exception to our rule of free speech, and if they're slighted, they can go and kill the person who slighted them. That is NOT kosher and never WILL be kosher. It's not about Islam or Muhammad: if some other group were forbidding people from depicting one of their icons under threat of death, this exact same thing would be happening.
It's not an issue of tact, it's an issue of not giving up OUR rights just because someone ELSE is insulted or murderous. If I wanna insult someone, I have the right to do so. If I wanna insult something someone believes in, I have the right to do so. If I wanna draw a religious figure sodomized, by GodJesusAllahBuddha, I have the right to do so under the Constitution, and I DEFINITELY have the right to do so without the threat of being killed. It doesn't mean that I WILL, but just because I won't doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to.
I'm going to quote the aforementioned Penn Jillette. "You know what the proper place and time for free speech is? Every-fucking-where and al-fucking-ways." The rights and comfort of the group do not override the rights of the individual.
If you believe that it's not islam making you feel the need to make this outcry, if you believe the vast vast majority of muslim people are awesome, if you respect all religions like you say you do, why do you insist we should be insulting them anyway? Just because we can? You're just pissing off the entire nation of muslims with it and the ones you're actually trying to target, the radicals, are just provided with more reasons to hate you.
I would never agree with someone making life threats to someone for stating their opinion, but I wouldn't agree with the person feeling they can just make insults left and right with impunity cowering behind freedom of speach. I don't think it's a good thing a person will keep their insults towards someone else to themselves because they're afraid of the consequences, they should choose not to insult because they respect each other.
I would never agree with someone making life threats to someone for stating their opinion, but I wouldn't agree with the person feeling they can just make insults left and right with impunity cowering behind freedom of speach. I don't think it's a good thing a person will keep their insults towards someone else to themselves because they're afraid of the consequences, they should choose not to insult because they respect each other.
Because sometimes there's more fucking important issues than making sure we're not insulting a people's beliefs.
Stop treating this like it's some kind of attempt to insult a religion for the sole reason of insulting a religion. It's not fucking about the fact that it's Islam. It's about having the most important right in the country being denied because of threats, and being pressured and scared into giving them up simply because we don't want to offend or we don't want to be murdered.
Don't YOU try to steal Stank's right to depict what he wants under theats like "They're going to get mad at you." and "You're just a coward insulting a religion, hiding behind free speech." Have you ever heard of a political statement? A protest? Conviction? Utter belief in something that it didn't matter what the consequences would be, that what you wanted to say or do HAD to be said or done even if you were scolded, insulted, arrested, or killed? When you believe in something, you shouldn't just shirk back and stay quiet because of a fear of being called intolerant or insulting. That's a restriction of rights, and that's wrong.
Stop treating this like it's some kind of attempt to insult a religion for the sole reason of insulting a religion. It's not fucking about the fact that it's Islam. It's about having the most important right in the country being denied because of threats, and being pressured and scared into giving them up simply because we don't want to offend or we don't want to be murdered.
Don't YOU try to steal Stank's right to depict what he wants under theats like "They're going to get mad at you." and "You're just a coward insulting a religion, hiding behind free speech." Have you ever heard of a political statement? A protest? Conviction? Utter belief in something that it didn't matter what the consequences would be, that what you wanted to say or do HAD to be said or done even if you were scolded, insulted, arrested, or killed? When you believe in something, you shouldn't just shirk back and stay quiet because of a fear of being called intolerant or insulting. That's a restriction of rights, and that's wrong.
First off, I respect everyone's opinions, but they are just that, opinions. I support my skunk friend 100% in saying this.
Freedom of speech, in today's America, is precisely what it isn't...free. a Price MUST be payed for the liberties we enjoy and half the time take for granted, and even more often than that, have come into question these past few years of American history.
I also mean it isn't free, in the sense that....now a days in America, one must censor what they say, one cannot say anything they like. America ITSELF has been slowly destroying freedom of speech, "I sue you for saying this!". Or the one radio host who had called the female basket ball players "nappy headed hoes" I believe was his wording...it was his opinion, his right to voice it. What happened to HIS rights to freedom of speech? and Don't get me started on their efforts to censor the internet, as well as Gun Control, the American Constitution as of late seems to mean very little when the wrong people choose their right way to read it.
And is it provoking an attack to demonstrate what makes America, America? is it provoking extremists to air something on a show, that, at it's heart aims to insult quite literally EVERY racial, religious, geographical, and biological instance on this planet?
HOW MANY TIMES, has this SAME SHOW, made fun of Jesus? Or the Christian religion. I don't see decent people throwing exploding bible bombs at their buildings over such jokes.
If I want to say something, that is my American right, to be able to say it. Once some one threatens to silence my words simply for disagreeing with them, then that is a direct attack upon my freedom. OUR freedom.
If we don't stand up for our rights together, against threats both foreign and domestic, then we might as well have said in one unified collective voice "screw you George Washington, GOD SAVE THE KING!" Not saying that the U.K. is bad, just that, if we aren't willing to fight for the freedoms our ancestors fought for us to have, why did they die? Freedoms we are willing to toss away at the drop of a hat, when they literally dropped dead fighting for us to have.
.........on a side note I found the picture rather funny, made me think of a gnome or something, loved the goofy expression, and the pencil shading and perspective was quite skillfully executed, as are almost all of your drawings x3
Freedom of speech, in today's America, is precisely what it isn't...free. a Price MUST be payed for the liberties we enjoy and half the time take for granted, and even more often than that, have come into question these past few years of American history.
I also mean it isn't free, in the sense that....now a days in America, one must censor what they say, one cannot say anything they like. America ITSELF has been slowly destroying freedom of speech, "I sue you for saying this!". Or the one radio host who had called the female basket ball players "nappy headed hoes" I believe was his wording...it was his opinion, his right to voice it. What happened to HIS rights to freedom of speech? and Don't get me started on their efforts to censor the internet, as well as Gun Control, the American Constitution as of late seems to mean very little when the wrong people choose their right way to read it.
And is it provoking an attack to demonstrate what makes America, America? is it provoking extremists to air something on a show, that, at it's heart aims to insult quite literally EVERY racial, religious, geographical, and biological instance on this planet?
HOW MANY TIMES, has this SAME SHOW, made fun of Jesus? Or the Christian religion. I don't see decent people throwing exploding bible bombs at their buildings over such jokes.
If I want to say something, that is my American right, to be able to say it. Once some one threatens to silence my words simply for disagreeing with them, then that is a direct attack upon my freedom. OUR freedom.
If we don't stand up for our rights together, against threats both foreign and domestic, then we might as well have said in one unified collective voice "screw you George Washington, GOD SAVE THE KING!" Not saying that the U.K. is bad, just that, if we aren't willing to fight for the freedoms our ancestors fought for us to have, why did they die? Freedoms we are willing to toss away at the drop of a hat, when they literally dropped dead fighting for us to have.
.........on a side note I found the picture rather funny, made me think of a gnome or something, loved the goofy expression, and the pencil shading and perspective was quite skillfully executed, as are almost all of your drawings x3
When the Denmark cartoons were still being thrown around, some famous author or something commented in a newspaper article addressed to the extremists: "If you clowns are right about anything, the cartoonists are going to hell anyway, isn't that enough?"
If you have some free time, read this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muhammad/images
It's the talk page for the muhammad article, where all the muslims go to demand that the images be removed from wikipedia. It always makes me laugh to see some angry islamist rant and rave, and to have a contributor reply with "No, read the FAQ." Always.
If you have some free time, read this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muhammad/images
It's the talk page for the muhammad article, where all the muslims go to demand that the images be removed from wikipedia. It always makes me laugh to see some angry islamist rant and rave, and to have a contributor reply with "No, read the FAQ." Always.
I think what Muslim extremists need is a lesson on psychology. When you tell someone to not do something, you increase their desire to do it. Make the forbiddeness strong enough, and it will become a very powerful desire, just to rebel.
SO I suggest reverse psycholgoy. They should tell the western world to draw Muhammad as much as they like. In fact, they should threaten us if we refuse to draw him. That'll get people to stop drawing him, cause the whole rebellion aspect will kick in.
Humankind is nothing but one large collection of teenagers.
SO I suggest reverse psycholgoy. They should tell the western world to draw Muhammad as much as they like. In fact, they should threaten us if we refuse to draw him. That'll get people to stop drawing him, cause the whole rebellion aspect will kick in.
Humankind is nothing but one large collection of teenagers.
Honestly, I think both Penn and Seth are fucking retards. <.<
Either way, why is it considered a "libertarian" view that people shouldn't sacrifice free speech for religious extremism? If extremists want to create a martyr out of free speech, the greatest freedom of all time, let them. They'll be sorry in the end.
What? You think the people that censored the clip were LIBERALS? It was probably a executive decision because they didn't want their biggest cash cows to possibly die.
Either way, why is it considered a "libertarian" view that people shouldn't sacrifice free speech for religious extremism? If extremists want to create a martyr out of free speech, the greatest freedom of all time, let them. They'll be sorry in the end.
What? You think the people that censored the clip were LIBERALS? It was probably a executive decision because they didn't want their biggest cash cows to possibly die.
It's libertarian because, um, I think that's pretty much the foundation of their political stance. Individual rights over all others. Democrat and Republican views don't put every right of the individual before the rights of the majority or of groups or such.
And who said it had anything to do with liberals? I'm pretty sure we're all liberals. Conservatives I wouldn't imagine would be fighting for, like, this kinda stuff.
And who said it had anything to do with liberals? I'm pretty sure we're all liberals. Conservatives I wouldn't imagine would be fighting for, like, this kinda stuff.
As a Christian furry, my stance on this is as follows.
I'll admit that I don't like people poking fun at my religion. BUT! Having said that, I'm far more likely to accept it if ALL religions are treated the same. That Christianity is ridiculed irks me, yes, but do they censor episodes because Christians complain? Not that I've heard of (I might be wrong). If A Christian group complained like this Muslim group did, Comedy Central would probably exploit it in the media as how bad Christians are etc etc and whatever.
BUT!
Let a Muslim group complain and everyone wets their pants and censors episodes and you get people in mainstream media saying how we should be more sensitive to Muslim groups. That we should respect their religion and all the rest.
Why should we treat Muslims any differently than we treat other religions? If it's 'respecting their religion' then why do Christians basically get told to 'shut up and stop whining' when someone portrays a crucifix in a bottle of urine or degrades our religion in other ways.
Anyway, that's my take on the matter.
(Hope it makes sense.)
And to the offended Muslims, I'd like to say one thing. Either change the channel or turn the TV off. You do not have to watch.
Thank you.
I'll admit that I don't like people poking fun at my religion. BUT! Having said that, I'm far more likely to accept it if ALL religions are treated the same. That Christianity is ridiculed irks me, yes, but do they censor episodes because Christians complain? Not that I've heard of (I might be wrong). If A Christian group complained like this Muslim group did, Comedy Central would probably exploit it in the media as how bad Christians are etc etc and whatever.
BUT!
Let a Muslim group complain and everyone wets their pants and censors episodes and you get people in mainstream media saying how we should be more sensitive to Muslim groups. That we should respect their religion and all the rest.
Why should we treat Muslims any differently than we treat other religions? If it's 'respecting their religion' then why do Christians basically get told to 'shut up and stop whining' when someone portrays a crucifix in a bottle of urine or degrades our religion in other ways.
Anyway, that's my take on the matter.
(Hope it makes sense.)
And to the offended Muslims, I'd like to say one thing. Either change the channel or turn the TV off. You do not have to watch.
Thank you.
Whoa, some people on FA have sensible opinions on things? I should stop being surprised actually, more and more sensibility is actually showing up here nowadays. Good to see someone actually standing up for our rights instead of trying to take them to court to be more world-widely friendly.
Didn't we all ready go though this with South Park back during the Cartoon Wars 2 parter? Never mind they had shown the guy in the first Super Best Friends Episode
As I watched the episode in question, I have to say, I thought that all the censoring was part of the joke, I mean the whole thing revolved about how he has the "power to not be ridiculed" that everyone else wanted. Well, the best way to knock on that whole thing was to show just how dumb the whole thing is. Never mind that I think the whole thing was a knock back to the episode Cartoon Wars where the censoring was defendantly part of the joke.
This reminds me of there episode that talked about Scientology, they got all pissed too and of course Sir Issac Haze walked out on the show (thus the way overdone manor that Chef was taken out of the show). Talk about a guy that loved to give it but couldn't take it. Getting back to the thread, at the end of this episode one of the gags was that all the credits was John or Jane Doe so they 'couldn't be sued'. The whole censoring thing makes me think of that.
As for Comedy Central caving, it was probably in there best interest... hell it is a business and is thus supposed to do what it thinks will make money. When I think of free speach, I have never thought of anything on TV.
What would really be a kick is if in protest the makers of the show 'accidentally' let a few uncensored copies of the episodes get leaked to the net. Talk about a viral that would explode. Too bad the same company handles the DVDs, likely even they will be censored form of the episodes as well.
As I watched the episode in question, I have to say, I thought that all the censoring was part of the joke, I mean the whole thing revolved about how he has the "power to not be ridiculed" that everyone else wanted. Well, the best way to knock on that whole thing was to show just how dumb the whole thing is. Never mind that I think the whole thing was a knock back to the episode Cartoon Wars where the censoring was defendantly part of the joke.
This reminds me of there episode that talked about Scientology, they got all pissed too and of course Sir Issac Haze walked out on the show (thus the way overdone manor that Chef was taken out of the show). Talk about a guy that loved to give it but couldn't take it. Getting back to the thread, at the end of this episode one of the gags was that all the credits was John or Jane Doe so they 'couldn't be sued'. The whole censoring thing makes me think of that.
As for Comedy Central caving, it was probably in there best interest... hell it is a business and is thus supposed to do what it thinks will make money. When I think of free speach, I have never thought of anything on TV.
What would really be a kick is if in protest the makers of the show 'accidentally' let a few uncensored copies of the episodes get leaked to the net. Talk about a viral that would explode. Too bad the same company handles the DVDs, likely even they will be censored form of the episodes as well.
Epic.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3760946
Tris let me know you're already doing this after I found the blog. Kick ass ]:8D
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3760946
Tris let me know you're already doing this after I found the blog. Kick ass ]:8D
Actually, the American Government cant regulate your speech, but they CAN regulate the time, place, and manner of it. Thats why shows are censored during the day, but not usually, if at all, at night. To protect children and weak-minded and such.
Oh yeah, and this is the Internet, not America. It'd probably have mor eimpact if you did it somewhere else besides the anonymity of the internet. After all, Anonymity + Internet = Jackass
Dont get me wrong. not necessarily against this, but not for it, either. To each their own. *shrug*
Oh yeah, and this is the Internet, not America. It'd probably have mor eimpact if you did it somewhere else besides the anonymity of the internet. After all, Anonymity + Internet = Jackass
Dont get me wrong. not necessarily against this, but not for it, either. To each their own. *shrug*
-Explodes- (Reports are coming in of a duck shaped bomb being set off in the comment field of well known skunk anthro artist Stank's cartoon depiction of the Muslim prophet Muhammad, more details later as the story develops)
LOL I can totally hear it now, such lulzeriffic entertainment that could ensue ^0^;
LOL I can totally hear it now, such lulzeriffic entertainment that could ensue ^0^;
A friend of mine who is completely squicked by vore asked me to relay his thoughts to you:
"That guy realizes full well that radical muslims will actually put real monetary bounties on his head for this, but still did it anyway. That's some pretty big balls."
Usually your balls would be big because some other fur has been slurped up into them. :p
"That guy realizes full well that radical muslims will actually put real monetary bounties on his head for this, but still did it anyway. That's some pretty big balls."
Usually your balls would be big because some other fur has been slurped up into them. :p
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