Aaaaah you did such an awesome job on Natani. He looks great. Been a fan of the comic since it started ^^

Natani is so cool and cute! You did an amazing work with them! x3

Awesome 'Sassin Nats we made, Fluff! 👍

Dang, he just looks so badass. Awesome work with his outfit!

Always found her to be the second prettiest character in the series.

Natani is a guy

I think this gender question for Natani is far too complicated and unprecedented to simply make a clear-cut case for saying one way or the other. Biologically speaking, Natani is absolutely female, and that's where the choice of female pronouns comes from for us readers. In-story, the other characters use male pronouns, since most of them think she is physically male. As the readers, we're in on the secret.

Mentally... that's where things get really complicated for Natani. They seem to be very conflicted, and growing more so as the character develops -- they appear to be slowly shifting toward becoming female-dominant.

It can be argued that because this mental image of gender is artificially imposed on her by the unique circumstances of the soul-bonding with her brother, that the male self-image is in fact is only a bleed-through effect that originates from him, and isn't her. As he is the source of this shared soul thing, it seems reasonable to think this is just her bother's masculinity is overpowering her personal femininity. We've seen there's still an all-female piece of her original self buried in her subconscious, and it's been growing stronger lately... and the more her adventures keep challenging her masquerade, and the more she develops feminine feelings & attraction toward Keith, the stronger this side keeps getting.

The soul-bonding being done without her consent, and being magical and very artificial, raises big questions. It also means we can't directly compare her situation to gender dysphoria. Does this masculinity come from her too, or is it all coming from her brother? So far, we just don't know.

I'd simply say that Natani is very complicated & conflicted... and thus doesn't fit into a black & white male/female view of the world. She is not female, yet she is. He is male, yet he's not. As the character develops, more and more of that feminine undercurrent is breaking through, and she's even become comfortable with her female body around Keith... so I think these are hints that Natani is slowly reclaiming her childhood gender -- she's learning to tune out the masculine bleed-through effect from her brother, rather than letting it overwrite her true self.

So... TL:DR... I would posit that Natani is "situationally gendered". Prefers to be seen as a guy by others, because that's how she feels flowing from her brother... but deep down, she's still female, and is gradually gaining independence again and opening up to that truth, as long as Keith is there to be her confidant.

Natani is transgender, hence why he presents male, doesn't want people knowing about his body parts, etc. this has been talked about by Tom before. Failure to respect Natani's pronouns and gender is transphobia.

Oh really? Let's talk semantics then.

A "phobia" is a FEAR of something.
"Transphobia" is a FEAR of transgender.
No fear = not transphobia.

You are not me, and have never met me, yet you are making assumptions about me based on the flimsiest of arguments. You have no case to say that I am afraid of something that I am simply not afraid of. For all you know, I could very well be more intimately familiar with transgender issues than you.

Do not play the SJW shame card on me; it won't work. Label me transphobic or whatever you want to call me, but nothing you say can destroy my freedom to use whatever words I wish. You cannot compel anyone to use language you deem appropriate on someone else's behalf. That's called "forced speech", a form of censorship. Some people tolerate it, but I will not. I will say what I choose to say, no matter how much you or the mob scream about it. I have no need to make you or the mob happy about anything I say or do. I care nothing for your peer pressure shenanigans. It won't work on me.

That said, let's keep this in perspective: Natani is a comic character, not a real person. Natani has no personal preferences for her pronouns one way or another. Until Natani comes to life, meets me face-to-face, and personally asks me to use X pronouns, I am absolutely free to use whatever terms I judge to be appropriate for how I perceive her and her unique situation. If she were to ask me to use male pronouns, I would absolutely do so, with no argument.

That doesn't mean I disrespect her, either. On the contrary, a real transphobe would refuse to use whatever pronouns she wishes, and insist on sticking to their own preconceptions. A hater would freak out about the whole thing and discriminate against her for being different. I am neither. I simply will not be compelled into unfree speech, let alone by a presumptuous snowflake who assumes others would find ___ offensive, without bothering to actually ask them if ___ is offensive to them at all.

I personally do not believe it is intended for the audience to determine "which way" Natani is; it's up to how he personally identifies as to whether he is a man, woman, or any flavor of enby. And as of currently, on Natani's official reference, and when he comes out to the crew after his encounter with his younger self, his gender is male.

I agree that there have been a lot of factors that to some would be expected to conflict with how Natani sees himself. However, the "all-female piece of her original self buried in her subconscious," or rather the younger part of him before his soul was scarred actually clarifies this very clearly. Even before the soul bond, regardless of the necessity of appearing as a man to be a part of the assassin guild, Natani preferred presenting as a guy. The only part where younger Natani 'strengthens' their femininity is where he calls out Natani's internalized misogyny (associating being weak/vulnerable with being female), and when he asserts that all of Natani's feelings, even his feminine ones, come from himself and not from how Zen sees him. I personally saw it as Natani becoming able to own and accept the full range of his feelings.

Sexual orientation =/= gender identity. Being attracted to men doesn't make Natani closer to being a woman.

Your interpretation falls a little close to trans-erasure (story where a person "thinks" they're transgender, and then "recovers"), which is why people may find it offensive.

I don't think that is accurate either. I was trying to enliven the discussion with alternate ideas before, and still am. I maintain that Natani is a very complicated character, who defies traditional psychoanalysis labels.

My head-canon interpretation of the comic, thus far, is that Natani is uncertain where she stands in the gender-orientation spectrum (if the TwoKinds world even has such a concept)... and that the issues of wolf Keidran politics and this magical soul-bonding thing have deeply muddled the issue, and brings into question to what degree her personality is being influenced by external forces (both social and magical).

As nothing like this bonding is possible in the real world, this case also doesn't appear to fit well in the real-world transgender spectrum either... as least, as we understand it today. I think Tom's categorization for Natani as "transgender" is simply a general catch-all term for the fact that she is clearly non-binary, but otherwise too difficult to give a more specific label to. I don't think it should be interpreted as literal, as Tom may simply lack a better term for her. Indeed, being "transgender" is in itself not a specific label, but is simply saying one is part of a very broad and vague category.

Ultimately, I don't think it really matters that much, and is certainly not worth fighting over. Natani is not going to object to how we readers perceive her/him. We can discuss and theorize amicably... but to do that, alternative interpretations must be free to be heard, or we just end up creating an echo chamber.

I think the link with Zen (as well as her background and preconceptions about females in her society) may be strongly influencing her personality and artificially pushing her to feel pressured into presenting herself as male, drowning out her ability to form her own choice in this matter. She clearly wants to be strong and independent... and in wolf Keidran society, only males can really be "free"... so I think this "transgender" thing may be more related to the link with her brother, reinforced by her disgust for wolf gender politics. While she was presenting as male before the soul-bonding, I think she was possibly only doing that as a masquerade, because the politics of her race would not accept her personal ambitions.

In our own world, women have historically needed to masquerade as a man, in order to join the military, sail on a ship, or hold any of dozens of exciting or dangerous jobs traditionally dominated by men. These women were not transgender: they just wanted equal opportunity, and were willing to resort to deception to live their dreams. I think Natani did the same thing to become an assassin, wanting to be with her brother. This is not evidence of her gender orientation. Thus, we're left with the effects of this soul-bonding... which seems unlikely to be without serious psychological side-effects.

Because there is no concrete evidence one way of the other, we're left to interpret the character by ourselves. My choice of pronouns defaults back to her biological gender... because I think she was only pretending to be male for political reasons, and the bond with her brother had the unintended effect of making that masquerade feel more urgent and real. In effect, she felt compelled to "become the mask", started believing her own masquerade, and is now paranoid about revealing her secret. I can't rationally call that transgenderism.

I am not convinced she really deep-down believes she is a male in a female body -- her unique interactions with Keith after he learns her secret appear to undermine this possibility. I think she originally chose to dress as a male for political reasons, and it was just a masquerade she got really good at & enjoyed playing... then after the injury and the soul-bonding thing started, the influence from her brother exacerbated things, and she began to believe the masquerade was her real self... and now, she feels compelled to maintain the masquerade at all costs, because she's terrified of how her life might change if her mask publicly breaks. Other than a haircut, hiding her scent, & wearing bandages that hide her bust, she has made no effort to change her body in any physical way... despite her abject terror at being found out. In private, she removes it all and is apparently comfortable with her female body. These don't sound like someone with a case of gender dysphoria.

That said, if Nora were to gender-swap her and give her a male's body, she'd probably be excited for how it'll solve all the conflict with her public image and career... but I suspect she would privately shed tears over what she had lost.

I'm just really not sure what to say, other than what's been said already.

Natani and younger Natani's discussion pretty soundly debunked the ideas about politics and the mind bond being the prevailing factors in his gender identity, and as I said before, your head canon is trans-erasure.

I don't know how more organically integrated and straightforward Natani could be about identifying as a man. He has never expressed himself as anything other than a guy, and he even outwardly despised and took offense to being referred to as "Miss Natani." Overall, there is more evidence to suggest that he is a man than there is that he is non-binary.

Gender dysphoria is not a requirement to be transgender, nor is seeking out hormone therapy, surgery, or (in Natani's case) magic to obtain a more gender-affirming body. In Natani's case, he has actually expressed dysphoria on multiple occasions, and it's a firm possibility that he doesn't even know magic in his world can do that.

Yeah, the only way this "debate" is continuing is because people are either in denial or are transphobes being bad faith actors. His ref sheet says his gender is male and his last conversation with Zen had him say "I still think of myself as a guy." I don't know what else these people want as "proof" besides Natani literally screaming "I AM TRANS" in a setting where that isn't a well-defined concept.

Well I’m really a 2 genders kinda person but I love the lore behind Natani as a character and I love that you’ve got such a good summery of it I feel like since she is all physically female and her inclinations and desires are female I’d identify her as female but the soul bonding bleed through from her brother does give the character new depths and a unique struggle I hope that they find a way to restore her full soul at some point so things are easier for her and kieth .... another consideration is that as an Assasin it might be easier being viewed as a male in the storyline ...more feared and easier to fight as she’s said in the comic without her breasts getting in the way hence the bandage pocket dimension lol .... all out she’s just an awesome character with kinda a Mulan thing going on it really gives each person who reads the comic the ability to form their own opinion isn’t that the point of phantasy

He looks cool; amazing work.

Handsome boyo!

That's... a subtleseed pendant. Interesting choice of detail, though *I* certainly don't disapprove.

And, as has been said, a lovely piece of work. Truly a delightful series.

AYYYY Twokinds!!!

Wow, Natani looks great!

Fav character of the series, amazing work on them

Loved Natani since the intro. Great job

Badass

Nice work Fluff, it's great seeing Natani in your style, especially in such an active pose! I love seeing you do Twokinds characters and I can't wait to see the next one!

Gotta love seeing him with a subtleseed necklace ahah. Let's hope he gets one from Keith soon