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This has been really sad news for me lately. Its not helpful when corporate boards make these decisions reflexively without the input of everyone. Personally for me my childhood love of Pepe had nothing to do with his bad awful sex assault gags.
I want to add some ideas to foster a debate on Pepe le Pew and a possible if any better solution for him.
Pepe is not an individual cartoon or statement, hes a brand character that is used for different media and like all media gets a brand reboot every generation.
I will agree totally that the Pepe presented in his original shorts made back in the 40's is not at all something which would be goof to bring back in any form. That is ture and i giver that to Charles Blow and more importantly, many other women out there who did not feel comfortable with the character.
But the solution that the corporate PR executives at WB came up with is just total erasure. There is a problem with this. As I said, Pepe is a moldable brand character. Hes not a totally constant unchanging subject like a civil war statue or an individual 1940's cartoon. Therefore its possible that the character can be remade.
Why bother? Well right now im watching the character be transformed into a rallying cry by the worst of far right media who now are buying up his merchandise at top dollar and are using the character to further celebrate there authentically real life misogyny and racism. By making Pepe into a black sheep pariah to the social justice cause, you are positioning him to be co-opted by the far right. Another tool in their toolbox.
A way to totally blunt this would be to totally transform the character and continue to use him.
I will agree 'toning down' his original stalker behavior to a more modest state would not suffice to make anyone happy. One could consider some kind of redemption arc. The original animation filmed for Space Jam 2 and then cut of Pepe being roundly punished for his sexual harassment is a good start.
Maybe afterwards then him re-introduced without the wild infatuation to women and focus then on for example: the way Pepe was used in Baby Looney Tunes. In that one Pepe's bad smell was used as a parable of accepting those who are different than you. Thats not such a bad idea and though not necessarily jocular, could be something that really resonates with the new generation.
I also BTW say a group of more insightful women in comments sections to liberal news articled hailing the end of Pepe mention about bringing in Penelope Pussycat and giving her a speaking voice for once. I think that would be a great idea. If she comes back in she can be free from Pepe's love interest and be her own character and Pepe just a simple friend or acquaintance. I would imagine keeping her and Pepe as a 'couple' would not make a lot of people happy given the past.
Or you could even go more radical than that, just change the entirety of his character. That has happened before you know. Lola Bunny on the Looney Tunes Show. They totally remade her whole character, for better or worse. And a number of fans actually really liked that change in her if you check the web.
This is really out there but... I personally am gay and my connection with Pepe was the overall total cuteness of his design, his dapper attitude, and his upbeat desire for affection. (even though I totally cared not about the very negative way his affection need was manifested). Really as a gay pre-teen what drew him so much to me was the many pictures of him with arms outstretched and oen for affection... and I wanted that male affection. Maybe if WB REALLY wanted to do something wild they could just remake Pepe as gay / queer. Pepe meets a guy he falls for and it totally changes his whole self, he totally condemns his own previous behavior and becomes a sweet, humble,and silly queer character. It would be radical, but it could be going a place Disney has been too afraid to do and it could turn a total negative situation into a positive one. That could really satisfy some on the social justice side.
I ask those people? Is there a way for redemption for past wrongdoings for someone? And if so, what can they do? We could use dialogue on this. Because right now, the total 'banning' of the character buy WB corporate has made a lot of fans very sad (not all of us loved pepe for being a sexual predator) and have given him over to be another new mascot for the far right in their cynical celebration of anything bigoted.
If only we could actually have a real dialogue about this, rather than a twitter war, a cynical corporate PR campaign, and a one sided top down rant from wel paid NY liberal elites.
Jsut... don't leave Pepe to this fate. There must be some hope for change for some who have done wrong and want to change.
----
UPDATE!!!!
So yeah... heres a new take on this subject >:P
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/59132831/
I want to add some ideas to foster a debate on Pepe le Pew and a possible if any better solution for him.
Pepe is not an individual cartoon or statement, hes a brand character that is used for different media and like all media gets a brand reboot every generation.
I will agree totally that the Pepe presented in his original shorts made back in the 40's is not at all something which would be goof to bring back in any form. That is ture and i giver that to Charles Blow and more importantly, many other women out there who did not feel comfortable with the character.
But the solution that the corporate PR executives at WB came up with is just total erasure. There is a problem with this. As I said, Pepe is a moldable brand character. Hes not a totally constant unchanging subject like a civil war statue or an individual 1940's cartoon. Therefore its possible that the character can be remade.
Why bother? Well right now im watching the character be transformed into a rallying cry by the worst of far right media who now are buying up his merchandise at top dollar and are using the character to further celebrate there authentically real life misogyny and racism. By making Pepe into a black sheep pariah to the social justice cause, you are positioning him to be co-opted by the far right. Another tool in their toolbox.
A way to totally blunt this would be to totally transform the character and continue to use him.
I will agree 'toning down' his original stalker behavior to a more modest state would not suffice to make anyone happy. One could consider some kind of redemption arc. The original animation filmed for Space Jam 2 and then cut of Pepe being roundly punished for his sexual harassment is a good start.
Maybe afterwards then him re-introduced without the wild infatuation to women and focus then on for example: the way Pepe was used in Baby Looney Tunes. In that one Pepe's bad smell was used as a parable of accepting those who are different than you. Thats not such a bad idea and though not necessarily jocular, could be something that really resonates with the new generation.
I also BTW say a group of more insightful women in comments sections to liberal news articled hailing the end of Pepe mention about bringing in Penelope Pussycat and giving her a speaking voice for once. I think that would be a great idea. If she comes back in she can be free from Pepe's love interest and be her own character and Pepe just a simple friend or acquaintance. I would imagine keeping her and Pepe as a 'couple' would not make a lot of people happy given the past.
Or you could even go more radical than that, just change the entirety of his character. That has happened before you know. Lola Bunny on the Looney Tunes Show. They totally remade her whole character, for better or worse. And a number of fans actually really liked that change in her if you check the web.
This is really out there but... I personally am gay and my connection with Pepe was the overall total cuteness of his design, his dapper attitude, and his upbeat desire for affection. (even though I totally cared not about the very negative way his affection need was manifested). Really as a gay pre-teen what drew him so much to me was the many pictures of him with arms outstretched and oen for affection... and I wanted that male affection. Maybe if WB REALLY wanted to do something wild they could just remake Pepe as gay / queer. Pepe meets a guy he falls for and it totally changes his whole self, he totally condemns his own previous behavior and becomes a sweet, humble,and silly queer character. It would be radical, but it could be going a place Disney has been too afraid to do and it could turn a total negative situation into a positive one. That could really satisfy some on the social justice side.
I ask those people? Is there a way for redemption for past wrongdoings for someone? And if so, what can they do? We could use dialogue on this. Because right now, the total 'banning' of the character buy WB corporate has made a lot of fans very sad (not all of us loved pepe for being a sexual predator) and have given him over to be another new mascot for the far right in their cynical celebration of anything bigoted.
If only we could actually have a real dialogue about this, rather than a twitter war, a cynical corporate PR campaign, and a one sided top down rant from wel paid NY liberal elites.
Jsut... don't leave Pepe to this fate. There must be some hope for change for some who have done wrong and want to change.
----
UPDATE!!!!
So yeah... heres a new take on this subject >:P
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/59132831/
Category Artwork (Traditional) / Fanart
Species Skunk
Size 1280 x 1250px
File Size 289.7 kB
U can reaed my thoughts about it in the description.
But id like to add soemthing. I believe the big driving force fo thsi 'cancel' culture has now become decisions made my public relations committes and famous opinion collumnists. People acting as gatekeepers of culture.
Pepes behaviors in the old cartoos was indeed supposes to be seen as petty and bad..... but in a rompy comical way. expecially because it usually ended with pepe capturing the girl or continuing to chase her off into the sunset. that i do agree is a problem. not that his behavior is being portrayed as wrong, but that its being made into something fun and cute and ultimately just a part of him. So i have to say that he cant have his old antics still being used today.
What im suggesting is that they change his personality and actions. Maybe a redemption arc. That would also be a good thing because right now, though there asre definitley bad remorseless people that deserve to be taken out of the public eye, there has to be some sort of way in which someone who has been shunned for their past bigoted actions can seek to change and become better, Rise above canceling and see the right way foward.
We dont want this to push the idea that if someone is a bigot or a sexist... that no matter what they say its all a screen, its all suspect, and that they never will be able to grow beyond that.
But id like to add soemthing. I believe the big driving force fo thsi 'cancel' culture has now become decisions made my public relations committes and famous opinion collumnists. People acting as gatekeepers of culture.
Pepes behaviors in the old cartoos was indeed supposes to be seen as petty and bad..... but in a rompy comical way. expecially because it usually ended with pepe capturing the girl or continuing to chase her off into the sunset. that i do agree is a problem. not that his behavior is being portrayed as wrong, but that its being made into something fun and cute and ultimately just a part of him. So i have to say that he cant have his old antics still being used today.
What im suggesting is that they change his personality and actions. Maybe a redemption arc. That would also be a good thing because right now, though there asre definitley bad remorseless people that deserve to be taken out of the public eye, there has to be some sort of way in which someone who has been shunned for their past bigoted actions can seek to change and become better, Rise above canceling and see the right way foward.
We dont want this to push the idea that if someone is a bigot or a sexist... that no matter what they say its all a screen, its all suspect, and that they never will be able to grow beyond that.
we can also cancel satire right away because making fun at dictators and showing them as idiots can still be seen the way Pepe is somehow a problem. I just hate this society right now. I want back to the 80s. Where there was humour about bad people getting what they deseves and if you do not like it you just do not watch it and shut up about it .
I always thought I am a childish person but Gen Y and "snowflake" damn.
I always thought I am a childish person but Gen Y and "snowflake" damn.
that one is different though. I have to ask... who cares?????? this is not the same as the Pepe debate which is about character flaws and behavior. In this Ariel debate the only difference is... over her skin color? Thats not a behavior or character trait, thats something youre born with and cannot be changed. Now people upset by this have also argued that the 'cultures' of black or other minority groups are insular and divisive from the rest of america, or encourages racial divide. Would not the obvious answer to this be including black characters acting in white roles? To encourage assimilation into american society? the thing that these conservatives say is what black culture should do?
Funfact: Here in germany it is the woke/liberal/left that likePepebeing canceld and including blacks into white roles? NO.. god forbid. Blacks must totally apply to the black role , do rap and all. you hae no idea how mad the left here are Oo (just an update) and guess who came up with segregated kindergarden with black only kids as 'safe space' from white kids . yeah, the green party , nto the conservatives XD
And to return to Pepe... Am I the only one who had seen the episodes where the table turns for him and he becomes the one hunted down by the female cat? XD (aka Karma)
And to return to Pepe... Am I the only one who had seen the episodes where the table turns for him and he becomes the one hunted down by the female cat? XD (aka Karma)
If they are going to cancel fictional cartoon characters for their actions in cartoons, why not also cancel all the live action characters who do unwholesome things as well. How about the Joker in Batman? Why not cancel most vampires as well. It's not like most of them ask permission before biting onto a woman's neck. How about Robin Hood, because he steals. Oh, I also have a recorded commercial where Fred Flintstone was puffing on a Winston Cigarette. Might as well ban the Flinstones too. Let's erase the bad guys in every movie ever made, because they send a bad message to people. Is Wile E. Coyote next? He attempts to detonate explosives to deal with his advisories after all! We don't want people imitating that do we? Gee, almost every superhero uses the same tactics as the bad guys to win their conflicts. Most of those could be banned too.
I grew up in the '60s and '70s. Something like three quarters of characters in the media smoked. It never made me smoke. Westerns were popular, and most kids in the '60s owned a cap gun and pretended to shoot things. It never made me want to buy a real gun and shoot a living animal or person. I watched movies about planes being hijacked, and banks being robbed, but I never thought of doing those things myself. And, those were usually live action movies - one step more realistic than cartoons can ever be.
I don't consider myself to be significantly smarter than the average person, but I knew the difference TV/comics/movies and reality, at least by the time I was six. I knew I couldn't fly like superman. I knew better than to mess with real guns, or even to aim one at anything living that I wouldn't want to kill, and I never considered killing anyone. I knew not to hit someone in the head with a hammer, even though the Three Stooges did that a lot. I knew people and animals didn't pop back into shape after being run over by a car. I knew people couldn't paint a tunnel on the side of a building and run through it like the Roadrunner. I was only six, and I already knew that much. Now we have fully grown adults who don't seem to realize that Pepe Le Pew is a fictional toon character. Let's ban him because he might cause someone to rape someone! No, if someone's going to rape someone, it's not because of Pepe. It's because they're already a bad individual who wants to rape someone. They can't pass that off onto a fictional character.
Honestly, when you were a kid, did you ever think about raping someone when watching Pepe Le Pew? Did you ever think about killing someone with dynamite when watching Wile E. Coyote. Did you ever think about shooting someone when watching a western, or slamming someone in the head with a hammer when watching the Three Stooges? If you ate pancakes as a kid, did the concept of slavery ever enter your mind as you poured Aunt Jemima syrup onto your waffles? For almost everyone, the answer is likely to be no to all of these. That changes when people get older, not because of the characters or products, but because parents or friends or peers come along and teach us those connections. Pepe doesn't teach kids to want to rape, but someone can come along and put that idea into someone's head and associate it with Pepe. That's pretty much what social media does, and people are falling for it. Gee, wait until the cancel people see Tom and Jerry! They plotted some pretty nasty violence against each other after all. If the cancel people get their way, the only characters that will be allowed to remain are the ones they personally like. Everything else gets removed. Oh, but they all like different things, so I guess nothing survives in the end. All fictional characters are banned!
If the people who are trying to ban a fictional character like Pepe Le Pew, put even half that energy into helping even a single person in need in real life, this world would be in a much better place. If each person shouting to ban a fictional character, did a nice thing for someone in need, imagine the goodwill it would create. Millions of people jumped on the ban bandwagon when the Harry Potter movies and books came out. Imagine if those people actually cared about their fellow humans or animals, and did a single good thing for someone they didn't know instead.
In any case, if someone tries to cancel Pepe Le Pew around me, I'd be first in line to lift Pepe's tail in front of them, and say, "you can't cancel this!", as Pepe exhales in a posterior direction!
I grew up in the '60s and '70s. Something like three quarters of characters in the media smoked. It never made me smoke. Westerns were popular, and most kids in the '60s owned a cap gun and pretended to shoot things. It never made me want to buy a real gun and shoot a living animal or person. I watched movies about planes being hijacked, and banks being robbed, but I never thought of doing those things myself. And, those were usually live action movies - one step more realistic than cartoons can ever be.
I don't consider myself to be significantly smarter than the average person, but I knew the difference TV/comics/movies and reality, at least by the time I was six. I knew I couldn't fly like superman. I knew better than to mess with real guns, or even to aim one at anything living that I wouldn't want to kill, and I never considered killing anyone. I knew not to hit someone in the head with a hammer, even though the Three Stooges did that a lot. I knew people and animals didn't pop back into shape after being run over by a car. I knew people couldn't paint a tunnel on the side of a building and run through it like the Roadrunner. I was only six, and I already knew that much. Now we have fully grown adults who don't seem to realize that Pepe Le Pew is a fictional toon character. Let's ban him because he might cause someone to rape someone! No, if someone's going to rape someone, it's not because of Pepe. It's because they're already a bad individual who wants to rape someone. They can't pass that off onto a fictional character.
Honestly, when you were a kid, did you ever think about raping someone when watching Pepe Le Pew? Did you ever think about killing someone with dynamite when watching Wile E. Coyote. Did you ever think about shooting someone when watching a western, or slamming someone in the head with a hammer when watching the Three Stooges? If you ate pancakes as a kid, did the concept of slavery ever enter your mind as you poured Aunt Jemima syrup onto your waffles? For almost everyone, the answer is likely to be no to all of these. That changes when people get older, not because of the characters or products, but because parents or friends or peers come along and teach us those connections. Pepe doesn't teach kids to want to rape, but someone can come along and put that idea into someone's head and associate it with Pepe. That's pretty much what social media does, and people are falling for it. Gee, wait until the cancel people see Tom and Jerry! They plotted some pretty nasty violence against each other after all. If the cancel people get their way, the only characters that will be allowed to remain are the ones they personally like. Everything else gets removed. Oh, but they all like different things, so I guess nothing survives in the end. All fictional characters are banned!
If the people who are trying to ban a fictional character like Pepe Le Pew, put even half that energy into helping even a single person in need in real life, this world would be in a much better place. If each person shouting to ban a fictional character, did a nice thing for someone in need, imagine the goodwill it would create. Millions of people jumped on the ban bandwagon when the Harry Potter movies and books came out. Imagine if those people actually cared about their fellow humans or animals, and did a single good thing for someone they didn't know instead.
In any case, if someone tries to cancel Pepe Le Pew around me, I'd be first in line to lift Pepe's tail in front of them, and say, "you can't cancel this!", as Pepe exhales in a posterior direction!
There are good things and bad things about Pepé, as with all of the Looney Tunes Cast, that attract us to them as well as know not to act a certain way. But on the whole, while questionable, Pepé is not a straight up villain, at least not to me. There are men and women alike who like him a great deal and I feel that he shouldn’t have been “canceled”. Nothing ever really dies, and I do have faith he will come back hopefully eventually, but while we and Chuck Jones daughter Linda Jones are fighting and waiting for him, let’s brave on. Don’t know if this petition will help, but better to try helping with this than nothing at all:
https://youtu.be/BOnq4IwbJTg
https://youtu.be/nRV0unoXrfg
https://youtu.be/8z55r1KFrqk
https://t.co/teC2M3aSGT
https://youtu.be/BOnq4IwbJTg
https://youtu.be/nRV0unoXrfg
https://youtu.be/8z55r1KFrqk
https://t.co/teC2M3aSGT
Most of the Looney Tunes characters have partaken in some form of assault, violence or crime by real life standards. People wave that off as cartoon violence, but somehow deem what Pepe does as almost real.
I understand that with the social crackdown on sexually inappropriate behaviour, especially in recent years, Pepe seems like a red-flag for a step backward. But I think that's more because we're hyper vigilante against the real life equivalent of these behaviours.
I'd say, objectively and perhaps controversially, that showering someone with unconsented kisses and amorous attention is lower on the scale of violence than dropping anvils on people, hunting them to eat, or showering/threatening them with gun fire. Non of these things are fine to do in society - why is one fictional/cartoon depiction of it deemed so much more unacceptable and serious? I'd suspect this is another example, albeit to lesser extent, how people view people view sex versus how they view gore/violence.
Year after year the internet collectively makes fun of politicians trying to link video game/movies/media violence to real life violence, as these links are proven false. I don't understand how the very same people can then turn around and point at a literal cartoon of characters doing abhorrent things to each other, depicted in funny ways, and single one of them out in particular to contribute to something as horrible as rape and sexual assault.
It's shortsighted and absurd scapegoating that'll do nothing to solve the real issues they claim to be solving with this, and will set a precedents for more harmless things to become unacceptable through these mental gymnastics.
I understand that with the social crackdown on sexually inappropriate behaviour, especially in recent years, Pepe seems like a red-flag for a step backward. But I think that's more because we're hyper vigilante against the real life equivalent of these behaviours.
I'd say, objectively and perhaps controversially, that showering someone with unconsented kisses and amorous attention is lower on the scale of violence than dropping anvils on people, hunting them to eat, or showering/threatening them with gun fire. Non of these things are fine to do in society - why is one fictional/cartoon depiction of it deemed so much more unacceptable and serious? I'd suspect this is another example, albeit to lesser extent, how people view people view sex versus how they view gore/violence.
Year after year the internet collectively makes fun of politicians trying to link video game/movies/media violence to real life violence, as these links are proven false. I don't understand how the very same people can then turn around and point at a literal cartoon of characters doing abhorrent things to each other, depicted in funny ways, and single one of them out in particular to contribute to something as horrible as rape and sexual assault.
It's shortsighted and absurd scapegoating that'll do nothing to solve the real issues they claim to be solving with this, and will set a precedents for more harmless things to become unacceptable through these mental gymnastics.
Well the thing is ARE the people who called videogames too violent the same who are engaging in canceling now? Early on as i recall it was the moral right wing that were talking about how video games will encourage violence and sex. The people engaging in this canceling is entertainment executives being fueled by liberal columnists and public relations thinkers that they hired. I mean... theyre not exactly the same. people... except that they have power and influence.
The thing with Looney Tunes is that they were never really made just for kids, they were made to be the opposite of disney's moralism and formalism. To be absurdist, edgy, rough and tumble. For the most part they were low brow comedy. I think the difference between pepes behavior vs the behavior of the other gags is tjhat.... well it at the time was not seen as nearly as morally appalling if brought into real life.. Keel in mind. these contradictions DO exist in reality. Yes right now we do not at all tolerate this kind of treatment of women..... but.... we still tolerate the death penalty, police violence, war, etc.
I know lately they also talked about reducing lolas chest size and turning her away from being a sex object, I mean they allready reduced lolas curves and her chest in the looney tunes show. and yet nerdy gamer boys went totally nuts about her anyways and her new personality. they made her a dumb manic pixie. So having a tuant body is not per se the only way to be attractive. Also this. ive seen some women say their actions with lola were not good because it put the idea that "how do we make women more empowered? equal to men? Reduce their sexual appeal." Thats nto a good message. Women just want to have equal opportunity and be taken as humans and not objectified. Not have to become unattractive in order to be treated like a real person and not just a sex object.
So ok heres a middle ground. dont make lolas body less sexy, but keep her more clothed outfit that covers her more. Also dont go for the huge giant boobs and wasp waist. have a more naturally normal female athletic body.
The other thing im worried abotu now is bug's crossdressing. Once a huge mascot for closeted young queer people and gay boys. Is that now to be cut out completely? OK so dressing in drag to 'trick' guys sexuallty is not a healthy use of it. But to delete the drag is to make Bugs 'totally straight'. Erase any queer part of him entirely. Seriously, i do hope they realize that is queer erasure before they decide to do anything about his drag. But thsi stuff is being decided by corporate public relations thinkgroups.... i dont expect them to get that right either.
The thing with Looney Tunes is that they were never really made just for kids, they were made to be the opposite of disney's moralism and formalism. To be absurdist, edgy, rough and tumble. For the most part they were low brow comedy. I think the difference between pepes behavior vs the behavior of the other gags is tjhat.... well it at the time was not seen as nearly as morally appalling if brought into real life.. Keel in mind. these contradictions DO exist in reality. Yes right now we do not at all tolerate this kind of treatment of women..... but.... we still tolerate the death penalty, police violence, war, etc.
I know lately they also talked about reducing lolas chest size and turning her away from being a sex object, I mean they allready reduced lolas curves and her chest in the looney tunes show. and yet nerdy gamer boys went totally nuts about her anyways and her new personality. they made her a dumb manic pixie. So having a tuant body is not per se the only way to be attractive. Also this. ive seen some women say their actions with lola were not good because it put the idea that "how do we make women more empowered? equal to men? Reduce their sexual appeal." Thats nto a good message. Women just want to have equal opportunity and be taken as humans and not objectified. Not have to become unattractive in order to be treated like a real person and not just a sex object.
So ok heres a middle ground. dont make lolas body less sexy, but keep her more clothed outfit that covers her more. Also dont go for the huge giant boobs and wasp waist. have a more naturally normal female athletic body.
The other thing im worried abotu now is bug's crossdressing. Once a huge mascot for closeted young queer people and gay boys. Is that now to be cut out completely? OK so dressing in drag to 'trick' guys sexuallty is not a healthy use of it. But to delete the drag is to make Bugs 'totally straight'. Erase any queer part of him entirely. Seriously, i do hope they realize that is queer erasure before they decide to do anything about his drag. But thsi stuff is being decided by corporate public relations thinkgroups.... i dont expect them to get that right either.
Oh no, absolutely, those tend to be political older non-gamers. That's right.
I meant that the same people who defend video games for being harmless, as they are, don't apply the same logic to something they personally don't care for, like Pepe le Pew cartoons, which are just as harmless. It's hypocritical in my opinion, and makes it seem like they're repeating a creed rather than approaching these things from a calculated and principled position. It puts any and all things at the whims of feelings.
Honestly, I don't understand what people's problem was with original Lola. It may be a bit 90s and may not have been an ocean of depth, but she expressly apposed being objectified and underestimated while fully owning that she attractive. She was the picture of female empowerment, and furthermore and more important; her personal empowerment.
Which makes the comment that they're trying to make her "strong" in Space Jam 2 weird. She was always that. But whatever, she looked great back then, and I think the new design looks great too. Tomboyish as it may be. I just hope they don't mess her personality up too much. It was always her confidence, strength and animation that made her pop, as long as that remains, I'm happy.
Cross dressing Bugs is a tough one, as that's going to be entirely reliant on how the trans and drag communities start to feel about it. As we grow forward and trans and drag folks become more widely accepted (slowly but surely,) I fear people forgot what things were like and may start see Bugs in drag as an dated parody rather than a queer icon.
If so, we're back to the first point; I hope by then people are able to see that it had positives, and realize that even if it is viewed as a parody, that a parody needn't be or function as anti-queer propaganda, and will mostly likely not sway anyone becoming a bigot. It's a cartoon bunny in a cartoon dress. If a real life person is persuaded by that to become anti-queer there's something deeper going on with that person. I personally think Bugs in drag is an absolute bombshell and would hate to see it fall out of favour.
I meant that the same people who defend video games for being harmless, as they are, don't apply the same logic to something they personally don't care for, like Pepe le Pew cartoons, which are just as harmless. It's hypocritical in my opinion, and makes it seem like they're repeating a creed rather than approaching these things from a calculated and principled position. It puts any and all things at the whims of feelings.
Honestly, I don't understand what people's problem was with original Lola. It may be a bit 90s and may not have been an ocean of depth, but she expressly apposed being objectified and underestimated while fully owning that she attractive. She was the picture of female empowerment, and furthermore and more important; her personal empowerment.
Which makes the comment that they're trying to make her "strong" in Space Jam 2 weird. She was always that. But whatever, she looked great back then, and I think the new design looks great too. Tomboyish as it may be. I just hope they don't mess her personality up too much. It was always her confidence, strength and animation that made her pop, as long as that remains, I'm happy.
Cross dressing Bugs is a tough one, as that's going to be entirely reliant on how the trans and drag communities start to feel about it. As we grow forward and trans and drag folks become more widely accepted (slowly but surely,) I fear people forgot what things were like and may start see Bugs in drag as an dated parody rather than a queer icon.
If so, we're back to the first point; I hope by then people are able to see that it had positives, and realize that even if it is viewed as a parody, that a parody needn't be or function as anti-queer propaganda, and will mostly likely not sway anyone becoming a bigot. It's a cartoon bunny in a cartoon dress. If a real life person is persuaded by that to become anti-queer there's something deeper going on with that person. I personally think Bugs in drag is an absolute bombshell and would hate to see it fall out of favour.
People were vary worried about the idea of sexualizing Lola. they knew she allready was that. The thing is look at how many peopel sexualized Looney Tunes Show dumb fuck manic pixie lola even though she has no body to her anymore. making lolga flat chested was sort of like.... a reationary way to curb the objectification of her. But thats not going to stop it. and also some pointed out that its implying that the way to be taken seriously as a girl is to not be attractive.
Then again there is the issue of body demands... what is considered a sexy body. Makign all girls aspire to be Barbie like... etc... I personalluy think maybe the solution is, dont change her body, but maybe keep the more baggy clothing look... or make her not walk around with tits out and torso bent forward in a posture that would give u back problems all your life.
Then again there is the issue of body demands... what is considered a sexy body. Makign all girls aspire to be Barbie like... etc... I personalluy think maybe the solution is, dont change her body, but maybe keep the more baggy clothing look... or make her not walk around with tits out and torso bent forward in a posture that would give u back problems all your life.
This crap is getting to insane levels of ridiculousness! 😡 And just by coinsidence I read this newspaper article from, 2002. 19 years ago a couple of weeks ago. Somewhat mentioning banning Pepe Le Pew! Not for being too amorous, but after 9/11 remember the idiotic anti-French sentiment that occured when France didn't believe the US political bullcrap at the UN? Remember the republicans wanting to ban all things French, French fries became "freedom fries"
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/07/.....t-so-fast.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati.....over-iraq-war/
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/07/.....t-so-fast.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati.....over-iraq-war/
If anything given how he's supposed to be french you would have thought that the republicans at the time would have wanted to uphold him to better get the "rapey, stinky, coward losers" thing to stick to us more but hey : hard to argue with people who bought our wines to then pour it in the gutters as in it would harm our economy -w-
While i just found the character annoying (especially since Chuck Jones most likely created him from stupid, ignorant GIs takes from 1944-1945) this whole "cancellation" is just trivial and counterproductive but hey : that's a stupid walking punchline at our expense of down so i'll roll with it.
While i just found the character annoying (especially since Chuck Jones most likely created him from stupid, ignorant GIs takes from 1944-1945) this whole "cancellation" is just trivial and counterproductive but hey : that's a stupid walking punchline at our expense of down so i'll roll with it.
Hey fellow, ours. Oh yes! I do remember those republican idiots buying French wine by the cases and to “show France” just how they were very angry with the country for not going along with the US bullcrap lies at the UN, wasting so much good French wine, that’s the bigger crime.
You may have a valid point there, about the US soldiers bringing back stereotypes about France. Tons of US culture at the time was poking fun at other cultures. It was the style of the time.. Times change, but no need to be so overly PC. Speedy Gonzalez poked fun at Mexicans, too. I”m an American of Mexican descent and don”t mind that character at all.
You may have a valid point there, about the US soldiers bringing back stereotypes about France. Tons of US culture at the time was poking fun at other cultures. It was the style of the time.. Times change, but no need to be so overly PC. Speedy Gonzalez poked fun at Mexicans, too. I”m an American of Mexican descent and don”t mind that character at all.
The role was often reversed by the end . often it turned out, that the females were not different. However. There was no intentional harm of victims of sexual harassment, I am sure. And just to point out: I have chrones disease. I also do not cry about fart or poop jokes just because I bleed from my ass. All this woke crying is dumb. Do not like.. Do not watch. All this is giving only attention to this. Ending up with outrages and people crying out "cancel culture". Pepe is not funny. If people would ignore him, he would simply fade away. But this is giving this character attention.
So firstly, I'd say showing that the cat was clearly running from and avoiding unwanted sexual attention is infact harmful in an irl scenario is generally viewed as such in clinical psychology. Sure it's safe to say women are equally prone to outward sexual attention but just because something is possible doesn't make it right, especially directed action. And the same dismissive attitude to that is what got cancel culture going in the first place in the office. We often think things are harmless because we do not share in that experience
I'm sorry you have chrones, I have ibs. I do not think either of them are comparable to unwanted sexual attention and providing it as an plotline isn't just crass, it's a waste of effort.
I watched old school cartoons enough growing up that while yes, pepe's antics never worked out for him, it was still viewed as an "oh well, who else but pepe" outcome. Que curtain, roll credits.
Which honestly works for quagmire whose directed at an older audience, but not children.
Now of course this is my opinion - not an effort to tow a proverbial party or cultural line. I just don't think it's good at all.
I'm sorry you have chrones, I have ibs. I do not think either of them are comparable to unwanted sexual attention and providing it as an plotline isn't just crass, it's a waste of effort.
I watched old school cartoons enough growing up that while yes, pepe's antics never worked out for him, it was still viewed as an "oh well, who else but pepe" outcome. Que curtain, roll credits.
Which honestly works for quagmire whose directed at an older audience, but not children.
Now of course this is my opinion - not an effort to tow a proverbial party or cultural line. I just don't think it's good at all.
The biggest problem with cancel culture is, that often the 'victims' are not being asked. Many SJWs in the cancel culture movement Do all this to be praised for "being aware and woke" and not to really solve the problem. Canceling Pepe will not stop sexual assaults. Stopping sexual assaults stopping it. Cancel something is the "easy way out" of a problem and to pretend the issue is dealth with. But it does not.
f.e. If you tell someone to stop black people the N word , they will find another word. You have to change the mind set and help them understand the problem with the N word. In germany there is this cry out about the word Ghypsy. But you know what. if you do not call them this anymore the people still will talk bad about these peoples. The just do not use the word anymore.
Cancel culture does not change this mindset. It just will cover it up. We have to grab the roots not the symptoms or cartoon representations.
(and btw. what about female characters being the same way towards guys in many animes?)
f.e. If you tell someone to stop black people the N word , they will find another word. You have to change the mind set and help them understand the problem with the N word. In germany there is this cry out about the word Ghypsy. But you know what. if you do not call them this anymore the people still will talk bad about these peoples. The just do not use the word anymore.
Cancel culture does not change this mindset. It just will cover it up. We have to grab the roots not the symptoms or cartoon representations.
(and btw. what about female characters being the same way towards guys in many animes?)
I'm not having a conversation about cancel culture, I have lots of opinions that agree and disagree with you on that subject.
This is not cancel culture, there are no victims. It's a fictional character. The idea is to not introduce this kind of mentality and dynamic to young audiences, it's rooted in early childhood psychology.
I don't know what you mean about black people saying the n word? Do you mean black people shouldn't be able to say it if others can't? Hopefully you understand why they use it.
In sociology, my field of study in post, we know that a decrease in harmful language leads to a decrease in unequal treatment - because people are easily reinforced in their opinions. When you take away the language used to express these opions, those opinions have less impact. This can be illustrated by our current generation of white people who use the n word far less than the previous generations. You can also see a abundant difference in opinion of black people between these generations, id argue that's correlation.
I think we're on a slippery slope when we bring in comparatives from cultures like japan to justify our situation in western culture.
They sale used panties and peddle in pedophilia as a cultural norm in japan so id say it's unfair to pour water out of that unrealistic well. Our issues that we ourselves are experiencing are here. In the west.
It's also safe to say many of the creators of anime are men, so the women in them do not represent women in the real world, they infact are idealized versions of women created by men... That comparison would be unrealistic, wouldn't you agree?
This is not cancel culture, there are no victims. It's a fictional character. The idea is to not introduce this kind of mentality and dynamic to young audiences, it's rooted in early childhood psychology.
I don't know what you mean about black people saying the n word? Do you mean black people shouldn't be able to say it if others can't? Hopefully you understand why they use it.
In sociology, my field of study in post, we know that a decrease in harmful language leads to a decrease in unequal treatment - because people are easily reinforced in their opinions. When you take away the language used to express these opions, those opinions have less impact. This can be illustrated by our current generation of white people who use the n word far less than the previous generations. You can also see a abundant difference in opinion of black people between these generations, id argue that's correlation.
I think we're on a slippery slope when we bring in comparatives from cultures like japan to justify our situation in western culture.
They sale used panties and peddle in pedophilia as a cultural norm in japan so id say it's unfair to pour water out of that unrealistic well. Our issues that we ourselves are experiencing are here. In the west.
It's also safe to say many of the creators of anime are men, so the women in them do not represent women in the real world, they infact are idealized versions of women created by men... That comparison would be unrealistic, wouldn't you agree?
No that's not basically what I'm saying at all.
Even more I don't think the "where were the parents argument" ever holds water. My parents loved me but it didn't stop me from going off in the woods to fuck around at ten.
Parents aren't and weren't, in this case, always around. Some can't afford the kind high fence parenting you are implying. Some people don't have parents, and even if some do - and they are bad - how would society know?
I'm not implying parents are strictly blameless, but when you turn a cartoon on for your kid in the middle of the day, on cable no less and it is advertised as a kids cartoon, it helps if the cartoon did it's own due diligence to be what it advertises.
We shouldn't lable content what it isn't and in this particular case, we shouldn't continue to give carte blanche to a old school cartoon character without addressing the egregious nature of their role.
Even more I don't think the "where were the parents argument" ever holds water. My parents loved me but it didn't stop me from going off in the woods to fuck around at ten.
Parents aren't and weren't, in this case, always around. Some can't afford the kind high fence parenting you are implying. Some people don't have parents, and even if some do - and they are bad - how would society know?
I'm not implying parents are strictly blameless, but when you turn a cartoon on for your kid in the middle of the day, on cable no less and it is advertised as a kids cartoon, it helps if the cartoon did it's own due diligence to be what it advertises.
We shouldn't lable content what it isn't and in this particular case, we shouldn't continue to give carte blanche to a old school cartoon character without addressing the egregious nature of their role.
It was not high fencing. it was just talking with the kids if they show strange behaviour. I do not support parents being observants but still. I do not believe cartoon characters make people behave bad. If people believe that everything could be bad and hurt. This will leave us with nothing left. Do not forget: others think we all are animal fuckers. If pepe encourages sexual harassment; we encourage animal fucking . you have no idea how often I have been called this
Oh I have an idea, considering I'm a furry too.
I'm not suggesting that parents be helicopters I'm suggesting certain things that are not good sources of education shouldn't be labeled as for kids.
My father wasn't a terrible parent for keeping me from watching oz.
And children are impressionable, this is just fact and absolutely cartoons can influence them, think of all the furries who got into this because of cartoons - good or bad I'd call that evidence of influence.
I'm not suggesting that parents be helicopters I'm suggesting certain things that are not good sources of education shouldn't be labeled as for kids.
My father wasn't a terrible parent for keeping me from watching oz.
And children are impressionable, this is just fact and absolutely cartoons can influence them, think of all the furries who got into this because of cartoons - good or bad I'd call that evidence of influence.
Still it is up to them keep going with this after being adult. I just do not think that cartoons to blame alone. This is more complex. I sure can understand that people do not like Pepe, as said. I do not like him either. But canceling him is not an answer. ^^
If we cancel everything that could offend people...
If we cancel everything that could offend people...
Of course, I agree it is far more complex than one thing - that's why we should analyze our environment and influences to see what lessons they teach.
I also think canceling is to strong a word to use here. Usually it's used to describe reducing the power and influence of living breathing people who do harm, benefit from it and who would otherwise continue to do so. In this case the creators of this property simply decided to stop using the character anymore as a moral decision and or a publicity move. No harm has befallen him.
Seeing as the characters entire schtick was, infact, romanticizing unwantedly, he doesn't really have much of a reason to exist in modern media imo, it would be weird if he did and I'm sure people would be just as upset if they reconditioned his character. Sure they could of done a redemption arc, but they haven't done a consequences arc either.
Also I don't think the slipper slope argument really befits an effort to reduce intent to harm. So far we've been "canceling" based on sexual harm, racism, power abuse. All of which has been done through social shaming - a ancient and effective means of society shaping since the dawn of culture. If ilthe majority of people wish to do away with offensive things they either have the legal route. Or the free speech route, both of which are near impossible to fight against. After all, free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence. If some one doesn't like something, they have just as much right to express it..and that is what is happening in our society, people are getting tired of needless offenses, see no reason for anyone to defend it under the premise of free speech and therefore excersize their rights of free speech to drown it out or create enough detractors that the offending party has no benefit in their actions.
I also think canceling is to strong a word to use here. Usually it's used to describe reducing the power and influence of living breathing people who do harm, benefit from it and who would otherwise continue to do so. In this case the creators of this property simply decided to stop using the character anymore as a moral decision and or a publicity move. No harm has befallen him.
Seeing as the characters entire schtick was, infact, romanticizing unwantedly, he doesn't really have much of a reason to exist in modern media imo, it would be weird if he did and I'm sure people would be just as upset if they reconditioned his character. Sure they could of done a redemption arc, but they haven't done a consequences arc either.
Also I don't think the slipper slope argument really befits an effort to reduce intent to harm. So far we've been "canceling" based on sexual harm, racism, power abuse. All of which has been done through social shaming - a ancient and effective means of society shaping since the dawn of culture. If ilthe majority of people wish to do away with offensive things they either have the legal route. Or the free speech route, both of which are near impossible to fight against. After all, free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence. If some one doesn't like something, they have just as much right to express it..and that is what is happening in our society, people are getting tired of needless offenses, see no reason for anyone to defend it under the premise of free speech and therefore excersize their rights of free speech to drown it out or create enough detractors that the offending party has no benefit in their actions.
They have the right to express it. True. But they should not bombard companies and start witch huntings. That is what is going on too. Mostly it is not real victims screaming. Those crying are Sjws who try everything to be seen as 'Good guys' and praised. It never is about the öroblem. It is about getting attention of "victims" and be praised
Clearly though we can't say "it's always this or never that" because that can't be universally true a d if we use that logic to disregard those efforts then we disenfranchise the legitimacy of actual efforts to stop harm.
If they have a right to express themselves then we can't simply make them stop, there's no precedent for that kind of action. No afforded protections.
I think referring to victims, real or not, outcries as screaming is kinda of harsh towards those who have actually been harmed - personally but I can't think of many cases where a she's effort for fame or being right, was to terribly missplaced to begin with. I personally think if you don't like a person's behavior nyou have a right to be critical of it, especially if it is harmful, if the majority of people and companies then pull support for that person, that's their own decision - again rightly put of our control.
If they have a right to express themselves then we can't simply make them stop, there's no precedent for that kind of action. No afforded protections.
I think referring to victims, real or not, outcries as screaming is kinda of harsh towards those who have actually been harmed - personally but I can't think of many cases where a she's effort for fame or being right, was to terribly missplaced to begin with. I personally think if you don't like a person's behavior nyou have a right to be critical of it, especially if it is harmful, if the majority of people and companies then pull support for that person, that's their own decision - again rightly put of our control.
I have said - two times by now - that I do NOT refer to the actual victims as cry outs but those who cry out in behalf of others ^^ These are those running around and cancel everything. Most real victims do NOT feel offended by stuff like this as far as I know and have read.
Well. the problem is not that some feel offended and others not. The problem is , that those who feel offended are NOT those who are actually harmed by it and also they leave you the decision : IF YOU DO NOT SUPPORT US YOU ARE A RAPIST!
And THAT is NOT a fair discussion.
Well. the problem is not that some feel offended and others not. The problem is , that those who feel offended are NOT those who are actually harmed by it and also they leave you the decision : IF YOU DO NOT SUPPORT US YOU ARE A RAPIST!
And THAT is NOT a fair discussion.
That I do not deny. I just think it is a better approach to encourage these people and at all better look at the roots of such Problems then canceling some symptoms this way.
We need a new approach to this. Not making it a taboo anymore to talk about it and also to research what role models are to blame for this. I am sure a cartoon character is not to blame. This goes much deeper. I am not in the position to maybe say this, but I try to understand the root of problems as far as I could and I see them in a long long tradition of "be a man", "be a pred" and whatever. but I am not a psychocologist and can not really put into words what I mean. It is like : try to find out why people do this rather than just lock them away.
We need a new approach to this. Not making it a taboo anymore to talk about it and also to research what role models are to blame for this. I am sure a cartoon character is not to blame. This goes much deeper. I am not in the position to maybe say this, but I try to understand the root of problems as far as I could and I see them in a long long tradition of "be a man", "be a pred" and whatever. but I am not a psychocologist and can not really put into words what I mean. It is like : try to find out why people do this rather than just lock them away.
Of course, I feel the same way. My education background is in sociology so I'm very pro " find the root cause" but some times things can act as agitators or reinforcers, like imagery and behavior and it's those things I worry about in approaching these issues. I'm not saying, ban adult themed characters and content but rather keep adult content and concepts out of things geared towards kids and rated for kids.
All for finding the root cause and dealing with all issues as unique and individual.
All for finding the root cause and dealing with all issues as unique and individual.
Thats an issue cause the Looney Tunes were never really geared too much for kids. later int heri career they were but at the root they were very much an adult affair of their time written with exrtreme jokes about sex, suicide, guns, alcohol drinking. etc.
We could have geared Soace Jam to adults afterall thats who the primary audience will be,,, people obsessed with the nostalgia of Space Jam. but of course this is a giant commercial production intended to appeal to the largest mass possible.
We could have geared Soace Jam to adults afterall thats who the primary audience will be,,, people obsessed with the nostalgia of Space Jam. but of course this is a giant commercial production intended to appeal to the largest mass possible.
Sorry, but this all psychology-sociology talk is pretty useless and totally separated from reality.
We all watched these cartoons as kids, and they didn't make us more racist/sexist/violent/whatever. We don't need any "sTuDy" about it, it's just common sense and what we can SEE, actually interacting with each other. Not everything needs a study to be a simple fact.
And that didn't happen because kids actually aren't some brainless creatures who can't tell apart fiction from reality, and who will see Elmer Fudd trying to hunt down Bugs and suddenly try to hunt bunnies by themselves. :D
They aren't so stupid. They know there's something cartoon characters can do and be fine, and the real life where we should do it, because dropping anvil onto someone is pretty much harmful in real world.
Source - I was a kid too :D Everyone was, some people just seem to have forgotten this fact.
We all watched these cartoons as kids, and they didn't make us more racist/sexist/violent/whatever. We don't need any "sTuDy" about it, it's just common sense and what we can SEE, actually interacting with each other. Not everything needs a study to be a simple fact.
And that didn't happen because kids actually aren't some brainless creatures who can't tell apart fiction from reality, and who will see Elmer Fudd trying to hunt down Bugs and suddenly try to hunt bunnies by themselves. :D
They aren't so stupid. They know there's something cartoon characters can do and be fine, and the real life where we should do it, because dropping anvil onto someone is pretty much harmful in real world.
Source - I was a kid too :D Everyone was, some people just seem to have forgotten this fact.
well hes around cause fans gave him staying brand power. but not all fans loved him because they identified or emulate the stalker elements they gave to him. ass i said as a kid, i didnt like pepe cause he chased the girls. i liked him becuase of how cute he looked, his rambling positive personality and the fact that he was male and constantly had his arms out looking for love. As a youn gay youth... I wanted a comfroting male embrace. Thats what i got out of Pepe. And now that the old stalker trope has become unacceptable now, I would dearlyw ish that they just jettison that part of him and create a new chat more in line with what me and otjhers liek abotu him. but no they didnt, they justy threw him out and now i have lost interest in the new movie. I read one womens issues writer who said that if they had included the scene that Pepe gets slapped for havign made another pass at a girl and gets a talk down from Bugs as to why that is no way to treat a girl.. they culd have given the message that there is the chance for a bigoted person to changwe who they are and learn and grow.
The thing im worried is that if we jsut cancel everyone who did something bad or stupid, they want to change, but no one refuses to help teach them and everyone is immediately hyper suspect about the sincerity of their want to change.... what is going to change anything? How are we going to defeat toxic masculinity if we jkust cordon off problematic people with the REALLY bad people and then just ignore them all? leaving them all to metastasize together into a much worse enemy to progress?
We need to start coming up with narratives abotu how to leave hate and bigorty behind so that we can change.
The thing im worried is that if we jsut cancel everyone who did something bad or stupid, they want to change, but no one refuses to help teach them and everyone is immediately hyper suspect about the sincerity of their want to change.... what is going to change anything? How are we going to defeat toxic masculinity if we jkust cordon off problematic people with the REALLY bad people and then just ignore them all? leaving them all to metastasize together into a much worse enemy to progress?
We need to start coming up with narratives abotu how to leave hate and bigorty behind so that we can change.
Look, I get it. I hear the " what if they cancel everyone" arguments alot and I understand.
Sometimes though I wonder if it is because some people just fear their own misdeeds coming to light or afraid that their "no shits given " nature will cost them one day. But that's just a worry.
I understand false fabricated lies could destroy lives in that atmosphere
I get that it limits people's progress towards redemption
I know it lumps people's small mistakes in with other people's more egregious mistakes
This is something we needed to address.
But this has been happening before they called it cancel culture. It was the rumor mil back in the day. Publicity management. Social shaming isn't just new it's in our dna.
But honestly, and I've said it before - this isn't cancel culture. This is a cartoon character, fake. There is no power to strip, no punishment to be laid out of harm to chaise.
This is a character that's owned by a company that likely doesn't wanna wade the waters of managing the re-entering of society of a character that mainly acted as a sexual stalking trope. I don't blame them for being cautious, infact I'd rather they be that way so they can ensure their success... Because if cancel culture is as affective and far reaching as people complain it is - it's better they keep making fantastic cartoons then risk fallout from one imo and seemingly, in theirs too.
I just don't want anyone to mistake this for being anything other than what it is. A private company making a middle of the road decision to save their ass
Sometimes though I wonder if it is because some people just fear their own misdeeds coming to light or afraid that their "no shits given " nature will cost them one day. But that's just a worry.
I understand false fabricated lies could destroy lives in that atmosphere
I get that it limits people's progress towards redemption
I know it lumps people's small mistakes in with other people's more egregious mistakes
This is something we needed to address.
But this has been happening before they called it cancel culture. It was the rumor mil back in the day. Publicity management. Social shaming isn't just new it's in our dna.
But honestly, and I've said it before - this isn't cancel culture. This is a cartoon character, fake. There is no power to strip, no punishment to be laid out of harm to chaise.
This is a character that's owned by a company that likely doesn't wanna wade the waters of managing the re-entering of society of a character that mainly acted as a sexual stalking trope. I don't blame them for being cautious, infact I'd rather they be that way so they can ensure their success... Because if cancel culture is as affective and far reaching as people complain it is - it's better they keep making fantastic cartoons then risk fallout from one imo and seemingly, in theirs too.
I just don't want anyone to mistake this for being anything other than what it is. A private company making a middle of the road decision to save their ass
But this decision won't change anything. :D Old cartoons still exist, people will still watch them and show them to their kids, Pepe's fans will make their own artworks with him. This character is never gonna die. Corporation has literally no ways to make it happen.
This decision changes absolutely nothing in regards of Pepe's visibility, and only makes WB unable to make money on this character anymore. And quite harmfully reassuring stupid people who outrage about silly things that their opinions are valid. While instead of valid, they are ignorant, pretentious, oversensitive, and ridiculous. These people should seek help, not try to influence world so it will fit into their sick minds.
Corporations have absolutely no power over what people love and want to share with others. Once a cartoon or character enters popculture, there's no way back. Now it's the general audience and fandom who decides what will be canceled and what won't be. ^^
...and also, I expect this "cancel everything even slightly offensive" trend to last shorter than its supporters would wish. There were numerous censorships and book burnings before in history, and they always finally ended up just as bad memories from the past.
These people decided to start a really silly "war" they will never win. ;D
This decision changes absolutely nothing in regards of Pepe's visibility, and only makes WB unable to make money on this character anymore. And quite harmfully reassuring stupid people who outrage about silly things that their opinions are valid. While instead of valid, they are ignorant, pretentious, oversensitive, and ridiculous. These people should seek help, not try to influence world so it will fit into their sick minds.
Corporations have absolutely no power over what people love and want to share with others. Once a cartoon or character enters popculture, there's no way back. Now it's the general audience and fandom who decides what will be canceled and what won't be. ^^
...and also, I expect this "cancel everything even slightly offensive" trend to last shorter than its supporters would wish. There were numerous censorships and book burnings before in history, and they always finally ended up just as bad memories from the past.
These people decided to start a really silly "war" they will never win. ;D
I understand that you can't errase what has happened but these companies don't want to appear complicit In a message that gained condemnation so they decided to pull it.
It doesn't matter if people liked it or not - a company has a right to it's copyrights and continued production. If this wasn't true we'd have more community, or doll house or some God damn dirk gently
I don't know what will happen to this culture, I know the attitude hasn't been entirely helpful.
It doesn't matter if people liked it or not - a company has a right to it's copyrights and continued production. If this wasn't true we'd have more community, or doll house or some God damn dirk gently
I don't know what will happen to this culture, I know the attitude hasn't been entirely helpful.
what about family guy? that show is extreme in its objectification of women, anti-trans bigorty etc....
You can say its not for kids, but were kids in the mind of people who wanted to make Lola sexy? or who made all theose Pepe jokes referencing the Phantom of the Opera and the Scarlet Pimpernel?
You can say its not for kids, but were kids in the mind of people who wanted to make Lola sexy? or who made all theose Pepe jokes referencing the Phantom of the Opera and the Scarlet Pimpernel?
That is kind of my point though?
When that made this they didn't think about the fact that they were inviting adult concepts into kids cartoons - in the first place-
Yes family guy is not for kids and I know a few parents that do their due diligence in ensuring their kids do not watch it - but we also know better now from countless years of childhood education studies and research. Something they either didn't care about in the industry back then, or plainly ignored.
When that made this they didn't think about the fact that they were inviting adult concepts into kids cartoons - in the first place-
Yes family guy is not for kids and I know a few parents that do their due diligence in ensuring their kids do not watch it - but we also know better now from countless years of childhood education studies and research. Something they either didn't care about in the industry back then, or plainly ignored.
ok sure... but why does it have to be super clean kids fare now? like i said the primary audience of the new space jam will be people of the 90s who grew up with it. Even then.... i would volunteer thsi. Were it not for the racy and adult subjects in the Looney Tunes... particularly the Bugs Bunny drag scenes... i probably would not have come into the furry world nor found an outlet for my growing feeling that I got pleasure from breaking gender roles and fulfiling the submissive feminine role.... basically becoming gay.
as i said before i do agree that the older Pepes stalking doesnt have a place anymore, btu i just wish they could have made a redemption arc. Show people that there is a way to learn from your wrongdoings and become a better person. Which right now... we kind of are on a path where we treat the person who makes a bad prejudice joke as being deserving of the same total banishment and isolation as the full on tiki torch nazi or politican that intentionally put in crack laws exclusively to punish black people. Theres a lot of talk ive seen of people saying "its not OUR responsibility to educate you on bigorty"
How do we intend to bring people from the middle groud over to our side?
Cause right now this full on cancel everything is going to lead to problems. My brother did a really stupid as fuck thing and said the N-word next to a black coworker. He meant it in jest but it was totally done with no thought about why edgy ironic humor is not cool. His employer fired him immediately even after he apologized profusely. Hes now in a really bad financial state and had to move back with our parents. Im trying to give him perspective.
Meanwhile...... these people are waiting on social media, begin to quietly tell him stuff like "you got canceled agian by the extreme left" "you didnt mean to be racist its these people who are the ones guilty of bigoty against you!"
I imagine people dont like to hear it but if we are busy just canceling every single person that does even a mild transgression... cutting them off entirely... there is a whole underground of very sympathetic clowns of the far right that want more than anything to bring them in and grow their ranks.. educate their intolerance and reactionary contempt. That is a huge problem
as i said before i do agree that the older Pepes stalking doesnt have a place anymore, btu i just wish they could have made a redemption arc. Show people that there is a way to learn from your wrongdoings and become a better person. Which right now... we kind of are on a path where we treat the person who makes a bad prejudice joke as being deserving of the same total banishment and isolation as the full on tiki torch nazi or politican that intentionally put in crack laws exclusively to punish black people. Theres a lot of talk ive seen of people saying "its not OUR responsibility to educate you on bigorty"
How do we intend to bring people from the middle groud over to our side?
Cause right now this full on cancel everything is going to lead to problems. My brother did a really stupid as fuck thing and said the N-word next to a black coworker. He meant it in jest but it was totally done with no thought about why edgy ironic humor is not cool. His employer fired him immediately even after he apologized profusely. Hes now in a really bad financial state and had to move back with our parents. Im trying to give him perspective.
Meanwhile...... these people are waiting on social media, begin to quietly tell him stuff like "you got canceled agian by the extreme left" "you didnt mean to be racist its these people who are the ones guilty of bigoty against you!"
I imagine people dont like to hear it but if we are busy just canceling every single person that does even a mild transgression... cutting them off entirely... there is a whole underground of very sympathetic clowns of the far right that want more than anything to bring them in and grow their ranks.. educate their intolerance and reactionary contempt. That is a huge problem
Well that's the thing. There's a lot more options for cartoons out there now for all age groups - that doesn't excuse the fact the original cartoon. Was rated as it was and not updated as time moved on, cause access is still an issue for kids and adults alike. As for the movie, they walk a thin line between attracting a new kids audience and appeasing adults so I'm sure there will be some.. racy things mentioned intended to go over kids heads, but that wasn't really what pepe was centered on. The joke was that he was a sexual predator, it's not a passing joke, it's center stage.
And yes. Cancel culture is dangerous. It's good that people with older attitudes who think they are the norm, getting checked though. But some times it goes to far. Ultimately though it would dissapear anyway because as time goes on attitudes change and the less likely people will be dicks enough to spur that kinda thing. That or we all die from covid ( for real though it's fucked now)
And yes. Cancel culture is dangerous. It's good that people with older attitudes who think they are the norm, getting checked though. But some times it goes to far. Ultimately though it would dissapear anyway because as time goes on attitudes change and the less likely people will be dicks enough to spur that kinda thing. That or we all die from covid ( for real though it's fucked now)
In my Opinion and thougths it would just way better to show either
-> Pepe and Penelope are actually a couple that had signed a contract back then to play satiric characters and are actually pretty different and lovable but also good actors like when we had The last looney toon movies we saw that they actually are actors in some way like bugs and daffy in Back in Action
Or when they left their shows in Space Jam and go to Michael asking for help
-> or that Pepe get a really dramatic and touching screentime where he changes and apologizes for what he had done though i would like the first idea more or a mix of both like I’m sorry i had to play this and that and I’m actually not that bad
Yo can always come up with a good story if you want to at least
And it’s pretty sad that nowadays if you say one word being it a joke or an opinion it’s already racism or this or that. And you can’t even bring something to an end where everything is explained to be just simple and understandable.
At long last i totally feel with you overall! Pepe was the only role-model for me as a kid but more like the way i felt how he really is and not like how he was shown. A bit like Rocket Raccoon in Guardians of the Galaxy who seems to be just an asshole at first but when you continue to watch you can see the depth and not just the top of the icemountain.
As a kid my E-Mail was PepeLePew336 and everything i did had to do with skunks (even today i would like to have A pet Skunk :3)
And Pepe brought me into the Furry Community.
-> Pepe and Penelope are actually a couple that had signed a contract back then to play satiric characters and are actually pretty different and lovable but also good actors like when we had The last looney toon movies we saw that they actually are actors in some way like bugs and daffy in Back in Action
Or when they left their shows in Space Jam and go to Michael asking for help
-> or that Pepe get a really dramatic and touching screentime where he changes and apologizes for what he had done though i would like the first idea more or a mix of both like I’m sorry i had to play this and that and I’m actually not that bad
Yo can always come up with a good story if you want to at least
And it’s pretty sad that nowadays if you say one word being it a joke or an opinion it’s already racism or this or that. And you can’t even bring something to an end where everything is explained to be just simple and understandable.
At long last i totally feel with you overall! Pepe was the only role-model for me as a kid but more like the way i felt how he really is and not like how he was shown. A bit like Rocket Raccoon in Guardians of the Galaxy who seems to be just an asshole at first but when you continue to watch you can see the depth and not just the top of the icemountain.
As a kid my E-Mail was PepeLePew336 and everything i did had to do with skunks (even today i would like to have A pet Skunk :3)
And Pepe brought me into the Furry Community.
Well in fairness. Something isn't racist, unless it is. So If people are collectively agreeing it is racist, it probably is - and people shouldn't be out there trying to make themselves feel better or more successful by demeaning people based on race and gender in the first place when if it's just one little thing.
Well of course you are right. But for one example -> I played Spider-Man and Spider-Man: Miles Morales -> And when I now say, I prefer Peter Parker over Miles Morales, it will be pretty surely be a question of racism for many people even without me explaining why I think that way.
And when I then explain, that Peter is more grounded and tries to keep his Powers a Secret and that annoys me, that Miles is like telling everyone he has Powers and is like hey Train me Pete and always calls him and such, people will still say racism without even listening.
Or another example -> As an MCU Fan I say, that I totally dislike Black Panther as a Movie -> People will say I'm a racist -> Even when I explain, that I miss the normally implemented Humor from the other Films (especially in Wakanda cause like Ulysses Klaw is still Funny in his way) or even when I say I love characters like Falcon or War Machine.
You see the point is, from whatever Point you stand and what you say, nowadays it is never just your taste or opinion. Though I agree with you that race or gender shouldn't be that much of a thing in that kind of view. You like who you like and dislike who you dislike and it shouldn't be limited to an overall meaning you may have.
Above that, many people don't have an own opinion or are easy to manipulate sadly. So if you say something that normally would sound like an opinion there could be people who say it's racism or something else. At least that's what I wanted to bring to word :3
And when I then explain, that Peter is more grounded and tries to keep his Powers a Secret and that annoys me, that Miles is like telling everyone he has Powers and is like hey Train me Pete and always calls him and such, people will still say racism without even listening.
Or another example -> As an MCU Fan I say, that I totally dislike Black Panther as a Movie -> People will say I'm a racist -> Even when I explain, that I miss the normally implemented Humor from the other Films (especially in Wakanda cause like Ulysses Klaw is still Funny in his way) or even when I say I love characters like Falcon or War Machine.
You see the point is, from whatever Point you stand and what you say, nowadays it is never just your taste or opinion. Though I agree with you that race or gender shouldn't be that much of a thing in that kind of view. You like who you like and dislike who you dislike and it shouldn't be limited to an overall meaning you may have.
Above that, many people don't have an own opinion or are easy to manipulate sadly. So if you say something that normally would sound like an opinion there could be people who say it's racism or something else. At least that's what I wanted to bring to word :3
In my experience the people crying racism to that extent when you explain yourself, aren't usually the people who matter or are taken seriously and are likely far aways enough from you that their opinion doesn't matter.
Part of the problem is spending too much time online caring about what crazy people think.
Part of the problem is spending too much time online caring about what crazy people think.
Pepe le pew will always be super hot and I do think he'd make an absolutely fantastic dom, but that's my personal fantasies lol.
As for the controversy, well, I think the creator's daughter puts it in the appropriate light of "audiences in the 50's/60's/70's were different than the now".
https://www.tmz.com/2021/03/09/daug.....-rape-culture/
Also she has this great idea for future Pepe Le Pew:
"She did suggest something interesting to rebrand Pepe and capture the spirit her father intended -- write him as a perpetual job-seeker who keeps getting rejected, but constantly changes up his routine thinking he's the perfect candidate."
So basically he's a millennial.
As for the controversy, well, I think the creator's daughter puts it in the appropriate light of "audiences in the 50's/60's/70's were different than the now".
https://www.tmz.com/2021/03/09/daug.....-rape-culture/
Also she has this great idea for future Pepe Le Pew:
"She did suggest something interesting to rebrand Pepe and capture the spirit her father intended -- write him as a perpetual job-seeker who keeps getting rejected, but constantly changes up his routine thinking he's the perfect candidate."
So basically he's a millennial.
Pepe were one of the greatest Looney Tunes legends from my early childhood life, and this so-called “cancel culture” of today clearly destroys it.
I know how hard it is for us to deal with any situation... but our nostalgic memories wants us to keep our hopes up to the real-life political side by words.
This may take time to follow the solution to bring the skunk, but it’s the best we can do to keep the Warner Bros’ spirits high with our trusts.
I know how hard it is for us to deal with any situation... but our nostalgic memories wants us to keep our hopes up to the real-life political side by words.
This may take time to follow the solution to bring the skunk, but it’s the best we can do to keep the Warner Bros’ spirits high with our trusts.
I like some of the ideas you bring forward for changes for him. Pepé being a gay character would just be awesome to me anyways as a fan, but I think it could bring in some good changes for him. This one may seem more out there, but I even think giving him the original connection with Penelope but altering it could be unique. Originally she was just a girl who was seeking out a man. What if in high class society it was an arranged marriage. But one where both people accept it and are happily in love. That could be a point about how different cultures can be and how it can be hard for others to accept those kinds of differences.
i dont quite get what youre saying but I mean.... there is certainly plenty of old media films and literature that have portrayed a couple in an arranged marraige as being perfect and happy. I dont think there is any reason to keep hammering that trope cause hneslty, the idea of an arranged marriage. I personally could never imagine tht workign out for me at all. in fact id say that the sucess rate of arraigned marriage only eixsts when its combined with making divorce a sin and illegal. Arraigned marriages have a different purpose than the happiness of the couple, their purpose is 2 things, to control breeding in a religious community, or to create a system of heredity and inheritance that supports ruling family dynasties and their political objectives. I would really disagree with the idea of making Pepe and Penelope a 'happily arainged couple'. Because it does not give the characters cpersonal liberty and choice in their romantic involvement, the same thing that people were mad about with the canceling where they saw Penelope as not havign any power herself to refuse it.
Right now it goes to show the only thing that matters in media and politics is what greviance has become most popular. Not long ago it was all about being performaively woke, now its about supposed election fraud and 'groomers' teaching kids to be trans. None of it all is based in truth or logic, only how many people are mad about cultural buzzwords.
I know I'm 3 years late to this debate, but I'll share my two cents. Is the Pepe routine workable in modern times? No. Was this controversy blown out of proportion by cancel culture? Yes. It still burns me up seeing the Eiffel Tower in SJ2 knowing Pepe and Penelope were cut. I find it ironic how they reintroduce Penelope in 2023 despite her relentlessly pursuing Pepe in past shorts. I fully agree with you that Pepe's character can be retooled. A talented writer makes something work. If they can make Penelope into a workable character in a preschool show, anything is possible. Dial back his dogged pursuit of love and we have something we can work with. You have some good ideas here. I personally see him as an Inspector Clouseau type. Sadly, I don't think WB is going to return to this character anytime soon. At least we have Fifi and Penelope carrying Pepe's legacy.
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