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The buildings is Dandong in China. The empty land on the other side is North Korea.
Rest of the pics can be found here http://www.flickr.com/photos/russth.....7624516829108/
Rest of the pics can be found here http://www.flickr.com/photos/russth.....7624516829108/
Category All / Scenery
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 1280 x 960px
File Size 150.1 kB
Listed in Folders
There were plenty of North Koreans in Dandong. Some ex-pats who fled, others there on permission. The North Korean embassy also operates several Korean restaurants in the city (and anywhere they got embassies) as a means of financing.
It's in another set of photos but there are parts of the river where the Korean and Chinese coasts are a rockthrows away. There were also trucks crossing to Korea via the border bridge when we were there.
Most Chinese I spoke simply pitied the North Koreans. Can't imagine how it must be for North Koreans, experiencing a power cut on their side in night and watching a vibrant and thriving city less than a kilometer away.
It's in another set of photos but there are parts of the river where the Korean and Chinese coasts are a rockthrows away. There were also trucks crossing to Korea via the border bridge when we were there.
Most Chinese I spoke simply pitied the North Koreans. Can't imagine how it must be for North Koreans, experiencing a power cut on their side in night and watching a vibrant and thriving city less than a kilometer away.
quite so comrade cheetah. the corrupt americans and their cronies in the south that hold our captive to the whims of cqpitalist brutality! we can not let the same fate befall on us!
yes i have. friend of mine gave it to me after i said i was going to dprk. fascinating stuff. i think o stayed in the same hotel as he did. wouldnt believe he stayed there as long as he did and not go crazy. 5 days were enough for me.
yes i have. friend of mine gave it to me after i said i was going to dprk. fascinating stuff. i think o stayed in the same hotel as he did. wouldnt believe he stayed there as long as he did and not go crazy. 5 days were enough for me.
Also this site is american run. Ypu realize what your saying is bigotry towards western countries and 90% of the world right? That has seen what Korea is like on the inside. Secondly all of you communist countires surround yourselves with border psychotic cult like ideal's and leech off of what you can. The fact your sitting here and insulting Americans is completely terrible where they have done you no harm with their fictional Empire building or tyranny. The laws in NK and China have had plenty of human rights violations. To even sit here and call America or other places evil is terrible please God tell me your just trolling because this is a definite report to the admins for this Stalinist bigotry towards Americans and other western's
I wonder if your one of those folk that believe American and England lost a majority of wars because they couldn't fight back. Fun fact kids UN only used a fraction of it's powers against NK and China during the Cold War. The funniest thing is Geneva halted the U.S. and other countries from performing WW2 style mobilizations. If America was not using 20% of her military in Vietnam and Geneva was not in play. America would of been trigger happy and flattened them. As for the Korean War was won by swarms that could of been beaten back. But Geneva again and again. Even up to recently, where the USA pulled out of the Middle East they only had 7% of their military there. The blokes could of flattened the so called "holy land" but they would of taken more flak and hatred then a reborn Nazi Germany. All in all of you want to shit talk America or other Western folk with your "America and the rest of her Allies are corrupt" then why does most of Europe make it's own products? Why is America going to fix the debt and stop the leeching? Simple because the Marxist ideals are fading. Putin is trying to fix a economically fucked country thanks to the USSR. Whatever the case it is what it is but I hope your not some YouTube comment section bloke that is there to make you shake your head no.
Probably not. That's why they also train in guerilla tactics and we saw just how good US is at dealing with them
Not to mention they could shell the hell out of Seoul by the time US declares war and manages to get its units through the DMZ.
Plus China wouldn't be happy either. It is rumored that regardless of who declares the war, China's plan in the case of a war is to basically invade Northern North Korea to create itself a buffer.
And the costs of reconstruction would be massive, even on better times. Doubt anyone wants to pay for reperations at this point
No doubt North Korea would lose in the end, but it would be a Phyrric Victory. The same reason why they have survived this long.
Not to mention they could shell the hell out of Seoul by the time US declares war and manages to get its units through the DMZ.
Plus China wouldn't be happy either. It is rumored that regardless of who declares the war, China's plan in the case of a war is to basically invade Northern North Korea to create itself a buffer.
And the costs of reconstruction would be massive, even on better times. Doubt anyone wants to pay for reperations at this point
No doubt North Korea would lose in the end, but it would be a Phyrric Victory. The same reason why they have survived this long.
I did more than take a photo of North Korea, I have been there. Truly surreal place. There is a link to my photos in one of the other submissions here.
Though I would say that what they care about, on an ideological level at least, is more Korea and Koreanness itself. In a way, Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il are the manifestations of the pure "Koreanness" and the parents/protectors of the country.
Thanks for faving btw :)
Though I would say that what they care about, on an ideological level at least, is more Korea and Koreanness itself. In a way, Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il are the manifestations of the pure "Koreanness" and the parents/protectors of the country.
Thanks for faving btw :)
*examines and scrolls through some of the pictures* This is just fascinating... I mean... Wow.
*thinks about what you said* You know, you are right.
Tell me. What was it like there? Did you have government minders following you? :D
Some of the interior building designs are lovely!
It's amazing that you were able to get pictures as well, :D
You are very welcome, :)
*thinks about what you said* You know, you are right.
Tell me. What was it like there? Did you have government minders following you? :D
Some of the interior building designs are lovely!
It's amazing that you were able to get pictures as well, :D
You are very welcome, :)
If you are interested in that topic, "The Cleanest Race" is a fascinating read
In some ways, it felt like a post-apocalyptic movie. Massive highways with no cars, 70s buildings that were slowly weathering away. It was quite surreal.
The minders were actually less of a bother than I imagined. Thing is, our guide's English was not very good, so our minder took over as guide. So we were able to get a rapport with him and have conversations about a lot of things. Since he is a minder (and from what we could tell, Secret Service), he was quite a bit more sophisticated with how he defended the government's actions. I found it quite fascinating hearing his side of things. Obviously he has a stake in the regime, but it was interesting not just litening to what he said but what he said between the lines. If that makes sense.
A lot of the buildings are quite elaborate, especially older ones. There is a notion of showing the greatness and beauty of the country over other things that one might think should be prioritised.
Photos are allowed, but there are areas where they tell you to not take any. You *could* try sneaking a photo but I wouldn't suggest it. You won't just be risking yourself or the group but your guides too.
In some ways, it felt like a post-apocalyptic movie. Massive highways with no cars, 70s buildings that were slowly weathering away. It was quite surreal.
The minders were actually less of a bother than I imagined. Thing is, our guide's English was not very good, so our minder took over as guide. So we were able to get a rapport with him and have conversations about a lot of things. Since he is a minder (and from what we could tell, Secret Service), he was quite a bit more sophisticated with how he defended the government's actions. I found it quite fascinating hearing his side of things. Obviously he has a stake in the regime, but it was interesting not just litening to what he said but what he said between the lines. If that makes sense.
A lot of the buildings are quite elaborate, especially older ones. There is a notion of showing the greatness and beauty of the country over other things that one might think should be prioritised.
Photos are allowed, but there are areas where they tell you to not take any. You *could* try sneaking a photo but I wouldn't suggest it. You won't just be risking yourself or the group but your guides too.
I am interested in that topic, and I'll be sure to check out that book! I hope it's in the iBookstore, :D
Hmm... National Geographic said that the atmosphere there felt like you were cut off from the rest of the world. Is that true?
What did the minder usually talk about when it came to his side of things?
Did the minder ever talk about the Korean War? I absolutely love hearing their side of the story. They said that we invaded them even though they got so far into South Korea.
Some are elaborate. My favorite is that huge pointy hotel that was never finished.
What did they not want you to take a picture of?
I apologize if I'm asking too many questions.
Hmm... National Geographic said that the atmosphere there felt like you were cut off from the rest of the world. Is that true?
What did the minder usually talk about when it came to his side of things?
Did the minder ever talk about the Korean War? I absolutely love hearing their side of the story. They said that we invaded them even though they got so far into South Korea.
Some are elaborate. My favorite is that huge pointy hotel that was never finished.
What did they not want you to take a picture of?
I apologize if I'm asking too many questions.
Don't worry about questions. My pleasure to answer them ^^
It does feel like that, not the least because you aren't allowed to take your laptop and your phone with you. It's actually kind of relaxing not having to worry about that That said, our hotel, at least, had access to BBC and CNN. Wasn't expecting that.
We talked a lot of things about the minder. The nuclear issue and why he thinks its justified over feeding people, the recent botched currency change, the overall negative conditions in North Korea (that one was interesting. He didn't say it openly but he almost seemed to imply a preferrence towards scaricty, citing the "moral looseness" of societies with abundance. Kim Il Sung himself made note of that few times but has never really been the official line).
Korean War is mentioned quite often. It is their big war after all. And, in their view, their big victory. It almost has a mythical status over it. The official line takes two forms: First is, like you said, that Americans struck first. Second is that Americans were gearing up for an attack and DPRK had no choice but to strike first. Also, the North invaded the South, yes, but the South pushed very close to Pyongyang (would've pushed more if it wasn't for the Chinese and Russians) and the US bombardment practically wiped Pyongyang and most of Kaesong out. It's one of the reasons there are practically no pre-1950s structures in Pyongyang.
I love that bit with the hotel. Just when you think they can't conform to Orwellian stereotypes more, they go and build a massive tower of omniousness. These days, they prefer to act like it's not there. But I heard they are hoping to complete it by 2012, for Kim Il Sung's 100th birthday celebrations. Wouldn't be surprised all rooms were mysteriously booked. They were having an Egyptian company install windows while I was there, but I also heard that inspection revealed some serious structural faults that rendered the building outright dangerous.
Well, when we were near government and military districts. Had such a case near the Koryo Hotel in central Pyongyang. Couple shopkeepers were also bothered about us taking photos. Otherwise, signs of obvious poverty or disorder (we saw a scuffle between a policeman and a civilian in Kaesong) are encouraged not to be photographed.
It does feel like that, not the least because you aren't allowed to take your laptop and your phone with you. It's actually kind of relaxing not having to worry about that That said, our hotel, at least, had access to BBC and CNN. Wasn't expecting that.
We talked a lot of things about the minder. The nuclear issue and why he thinks its justified over feeding people, the recent botched currency change, the overall negative conditions in North Korea (that one was interesting. He didn't say it openly but he almost seemed to imply a preferrence towards scaricty, citing the "moral looseness" of societies with abundance. Kim Il Sung himself made note of that few times but has never really been the official line).
Korean War is mentioned quite often. It is their big war after all. And, in their view, their big victory. It almost has a mythical status over it. The official line takes two forms: First is, like you said, that Americans struck first. Second is that Americans were gearing up for an attack and DPRK had no choice but to strike first. Also, the North invaded the South, yes, but the South pushed very close to Pyongyang (would've pushed more if it wasn't for the Chinese and Russians) and the US bombardment practically wiped Pyongyang and most of Kaesong out. It's one of the reasons there are practically no pre-1950s structures in Pyongyang.
I love that bit with the hotel. Just when you think they can't conform to Orwellian stereotypes more, they go and build a massive tower of omniousness. These days, they prefer to act like it's not there. But I heard they are hoping to complete it by 2012, for Kim Il Sung's 100th birthday celebrations. Wouldn't be surprised all rooms were mysteriously booked. They were having an Egyptian company install windows while I was there, but I also heard that inspection revealed some serious structural faults that rendered the building outright dangerous.
Well, when we were near government and military districts. Had such a case near the Koryo Hotel in central Pyongyang. Couple shopkeepers were also bothered about us taking photos. Otherwise, signs of obvious poverty or disorder (we saw a scuffle between a policeman and a civilian in Kaesong) are encouraged not to be photographed.
Also about the Korean war, I found it funny that in the Korean War Museum in China, it was all about international socialist solidarity against imperialists and Chinese assisting their Korean brothers and so on. Mao's son himself died during the war after all.
In DPRK, Chinese (and Russian) are a footnote, if even that. They didn't mention them until we asked about it. And even then, the answer amounted to "Oh yes. They were helping too".
In DPRK, Chinese (and Russian) are a footnote, if even that. They didn't mention them until we asked about it. And even then, the answer amounted to "Oh yes. They were helping too".
Did you ever get your laptop and phone back? I know that, like you said, they confiscate them, but I'm curious if they ever give them back.
Although I can see as to why it is relaxing. I know that some people (especially the text addicts) would get really butthurt about not getting their phones. Did they say as to why they take it away?
They actually had that? Wow, I mean... Amazing. I thought that North Korea hardly gets any channels and if they do, it's government propaganda.
Even CNN too... I'd be REALLY surprised if they had American news on there, X3.
He actually said that the nuclear thing is more important and justified then feeding people? That is sad... Although I can see as to why they'd say that.
Victory? That is quite conflicting, especially since there was a "cease fire" that was never actually signed. So technically the 2 sides are still at war.
Although why would they say that the Americans struck first, but they had no choice but to strike first. Quite funny if you ask me, X3.
I noticed by watching the BBC documentary "State of Mind" (I believe it's called) that if you were to ask questions regarding the American side of the war, such as "Didn't the North invade first" that they would actually try to brush off the question by saying "I will explain later".
I've actually read that they were gonna finish the hotel. I cannot wait to see pictures of the interior. I wonder why it is an unsafe building though...
You actually saw that? What was it like watching that?
Phht, I cannot believe that they'd barely give China or Russia credit. If it wasn't for them, then the war would be over by Christmas just like the US Army said right when the war started.
Also... Did you stay in the Koryo Hotel?
I also find it quite funny how some of the computers are running Windows, which is made in America, X3.
They hate America yet they are using their stuff.
Also... I know that they have some kind of limited internet there. Were you able to browse the internet on their computers?
Although I can see as to why it is relaxing. I know that some people (especially the text addicts) would get really butthurt about not getting their phones. Did they say as to why they take it away?
They actually had that? Wow, I mean... Amazing. I thought that North Korea hardly gets any channels and if they do, it's government propaganda.
Even CNN too... I'd be REALLY surprised if they had American news on there, X3.
He actually said that the nuclear thing is more important and justified then feeding people? That is sad... Although I can see as to why they'd say that.
Victory? That is quite conflicting, especially since there was a "cease fire" that was never actually signed. So technically the 2 sides are still at war.
Although why would they say that the Americans struck first, but they had no choice but to strike first. Quite funny if you ask me, X3.
I noticed by watching the BBC documentary "State of Mind" (I believe it's called) that if you were to ask questions regarding the American side of the war, such as "Didn't the North invade first" that they would actually try to brush off the question by saying "I will explain later".
I've actually read that they were gonna finish the hotel. I cannot wait to see pictures of the interior. I wonder why it is an unsafe building though...
You actually saw that? What was it like watching that?
Phht, I cannot believe that they'd barely give China or Russia credit. If it wasn't for them, then the war would be over by Christmas just like the US Army said right when the war started.
Also... Did you stay in the Koryo Hotel?
I also find it quite funny how some of the computers are running Windows, which is made in America, X3.
They hate America yet they are using their stuff.
Also... I know that they have some kind of limited internet there. Were you able to browse the internet on their computers?
Well I left mine back in China but even those who left them in Pyongyang Airport got them back. As to why they take it away, to keep the information cordon tight. Though it hardly works. Koreans coming in and out of China smuggle cell phones in all the time. Since there are several major Chinese cities along the border, you still get reception. You can have reception via Seoul from the DMZ too. A few years ago, when the iPhones were new, you could pretend it to be an iPod and bring it in. They wisened up to it
Well, the channels were in the rooms, so they are aimed at foreigners. I'm not sure if the people working in the hotel get sneak peeks at them but regardless, people working there are people who have a stake in the system.
Well, to them it was a victory in the sense that they managed to push the evil imperialists out. And America striking first is because Americans are imperialists and therefore automatically evil and inclined to oppress the poor Korean people. Though they were generally quite forthcoming with us, if going off some strange tangents at times. The video about the war in the museum placed the Great Depression *after* World War II. Wtf? About Russia and China, The Cleanest Race has a section which implicitly says that in their mentality, their help was not alturistic, therefore somehow does not count. Go figure.
The hotel is unsafe because apparently, the frames holding the elevator shafts have been buckling over the years. It is a problem very difficult to fix.
How was watching the fight? Pretty much like a fight. They were arguing, then the civilian took a swipe at the policeman and he hit back and the people around tried to separate them. Nothing special, though our minders were embarrassed about it.
I did not stay in the Koryo Hotel. I keep forgetting the name of ours but it was a large, rectangular one. You should see it in one of the photos. It was located on a small islet, so there was relatively good freedom of movement around the islet.
Strange thing is, they don't even use the Korean version of Windows. It's English. They also have their own OS based on Linux though. It just highlights their weird relationship with the US though, doesn't it?
No internet. The university had an intranet and that is it. Presumably, high ranking people have internet. There was talk of a 3G network to be set around Pyongyang by an Egyptian company.
Well, the channels were in the rooms, so they are aimed at foreigners. I'm not sure if the people working in the hotel get sneak peeks at them but regardless, people working there are people who have a stake in the system.
Well, to them it was a victory in the sense that they managed to push the evil imperialists out. And America striking first is because Americans are imperialists and therefore automatically evil and inclined to oppress the poor Korean people. Though they were generally quite forthcoming with us, if going off some strange tangents at times. The video about the war in the museum placed the Great Depression *after* World War II. Wtf? About Russia and China, The Cleanest Race has a section which implicitly says that in their mentality, their help was not alturistic, therefore somehow does not count. Go figure.
The hotel is unsafe because apparently, the frames holding the elevator shafts have been buckling over the years. It is a problem very difficult to fix.
How was watching the fight? Pretty much like a fight. They were arguing, then the civilian took a swipe at the policeman and he hit back and the people around tried to separate them. Nothing special, though our minders were embarrassed about it.
I did not stay in the Koryo Hotel. I keep forgetting the name of ours but it was a large, rectangular one. You should see it in one of the photos. It was located on a small islet, so there was relatively good freedom of movement around the islet.
Strange thing is, they don't even use the Korean version of Windows. It's English. They also have their own OS based on Linux though. It just highlights their weird relationship with the US though, doesn't it?
No internet. The university had an intranet and that is it. Presumably, high ranking people have internet. There was talk of a 3G network to be set around Pyongyang by an Egyptian company.
At least they give them back. It'd suck so bad if they kept them. Heh, it doesn't keep the information cordon tight, X3. I mean... If someone had their cell phone, they'd probably have NO reception in Pyongyang or anywhere else in North Korea. And I mean... How would 3G work too? X3. No way! You could actually do that? That's awesome, but it sucks that they started knowing it was an actual cell phone, DX.
Speaking of which... I remember seeing pictures of you at the DMZ. What was it like? Did you see the joint American and South Korean forces standing around on the other side?
Hmm... That's awesome! Although if all hotel rooms get those channels... They wouldn't be as much use because North Korea only had like... 2,500 tourists there I believe. I wouldn't be surprised if Kim Jong Il watched some of those channels, XD.
*laughs a little* I find it funny that they still view us as imperialists? Didn't US imperialism stop sometime after WW1? Although I can understand as to why they'd say the Great Depression was after their war. They'd say that because they though that after their awesome defeat of America, then America fell into a turmoil or something like that. Wow man... Imagine if China found that out. They'd probably demand credit, eh?
Oh crud... That's not good. Imagine if they didn't fix that, and the hotel came crumbling to the ground.
That fight sucks... Poor guy is probably in deep crap right about now. I know that if you break any of the laws, your whole family is punished and you are sent to a concentration camp. I heard, the purpose of those concentration camps is to strike fear in the hearts of the North Koreans, so they worship Kim Jong Il and don't break any of the laws. That is quite effective, because if you noticed... There is NO graffiti anywhere, which is quite nice. (although concentration camps are bad though)
Was the hotel nice? From my understanding... You had to sleep on the floor with those cushions on the ground, yes?
Also... Did you hear the work siren in the morning?
No way! *laughs* That's hilarious! But you are right... Shows their weird relationship. I just wonder as to how their version of Linux is.
That's what Wikipedia said about that. It says that "Kim Jong Il loves to surf the net" because they have a connection to China. But I also heard that North Korea is thinking of setting up their own 3G network. I do not know what it is called though...
Speaking of which... I remember seeing pictures of you at the DMZ. What was it like? Did you see the joint American and South Korean forces standing around on the other side?
Hmm... That's awesome! Although if all hotel rooms get those channels... They wouldn't be as much use because North Korea only had like... 2,500 tourists there I believe. I wouldn't be surprised if Kim Jong Il watched some of those channels, XD.
*laughs a little* I find it funny that they still view us as imperialists? Didn't US imperialism stop sometime after WW1? Although I can understand as to why they'd say the Great Depression was after their war. They'd say that because they though that after their awesome defeat of America, then America fell into a turmoil or something like that. Wow man... Imagine if China found that out. They'd probably demand credit, eh?
Oh crud... That's not good. Imagine if they didn't fix that, and the hotel came crumbling to the ground.
That fight sucks... Poor guy is probably in deep crap right about now. I know that if you break any of the laws, your whole family is punished and you are sent to a concentration camp. I heard, the purpose of those concentration camps is to strike fear in the hearts of the North Koreans, so they worship Kim Jong Il and don't break any of the laws. That is quite effective, because if you noticed... There is NO graffiti anywhere, which is quite nice. (although concentration camps are bad though)
Was the hotel nice? From my understanding... You had to sleep on the floor with those cushions on the ground, yes?
Also... Did you hear the work siren in the morning?
No way! *laughs* That's hilarious! But you are right... Shows their weird relationship. I just wonder as to how their version of Linux is.
That's what Wikipedia said about that. It says that "Kim Jong Il loves to surf the net" because they have a connection to China. But I also heard that North Korea is thinking of setting up their own 3G network. I do not know what it is called though...
No reception in Pyongyang but you can get reception from China in the northern parts and from Seoul in the southern parts. The idea is that the bill is paid by the person in the Chinese side and they keep contact. As for 3G, its probably limited to Kim Jong Il and other higher ups. Kim is, after all, supposed to be a pretty big fan of James Bond movies and supposedly thought Team America was pretty funny.
I would say US imperialism *took off* after WWI, and especially WWII and still continues today, what with the constant interventionism on countries for their economic choices and on grounds of flimsy excuses.
China probably knows about the credit but probably doesn't care much. What are they gonna do eh? They got bigger issues to deal with. I'm sure the guides flatter the Chinese tourists a bit more. The Chinese I spoke to when I was there don't like the place much anyway. Most of them kill time gambling.
I'm not sure about the guy. He probably did get shit but that he was able to do it with impunity implies something different on the ground level. There is a difference between petty crime and political crime. The latter may end you in a concentration camp, the former needn't be. Also, the lack of graffiti doesn't necessarily tie into fear (although it does). There is a cultural habit toward conformity that the government encourages and takes advantage of. Why scare people into submission when you can make them want to submit to you? Far more efficient. For one reason or the other, a lot of people are willing to buy into the notion of Korean specialness and the place of DPRK in the world. Dissent exists yes, but the government is far stronger than it was in the early 90s, when they practically lost control of the countryside and the soldiers were marauding for food.
The floor beds were the compound in Kaesong, which was actually quite comfortable. At least felt so in my drunkenness. The hotel room in Pyongyang was a pretty standard hotel room. I did not hear the work sirens, no.
I would say US imperialism *took off* after WWI, and especially WWII and still continues today, what with the constant interventionism on countries for their economic choices and on grounds of flimsy excuses.
China probably knows about the credit but probably doesn't care much. What are they gonna do eh? They got bigger issues to deal with. I'm sure the guides flatter the Chinese tourists a bit more. The Chinese I spoke to when I was there don't like the place much anyway. Most of them kill time gambling.
I'm not sure about the guy. He probably did get shit but that he was able to do it with impunity implies something different on the ground level. There is a difference between petty crime and political crime. The latter may end you in a concentration camp, the former needn't be. Also, the lack of graffiti doesn't necessarily tie into fear (although it does). There is a cultural habit toward conformity that the government encourages and takes advantage of. Why scare people into submission when you can make them want to submit to you? Far more efficient. For one reason or the other, a lot of people are willing to buy into the notion of Korean specialness and the place of DPRK in the world. Dissent exists yes, but the government is far stronger than it was in the early 90s, when they practically lost control of the countryside and the soldiers were marauding for food.
The floor beds were the compound in Kaesong, which was actually quite comfortable. At least felt so in my drunkenness. The hotel room in Pyongyang was a pretty standard hotel room. I did not hear the work sirens, no.
The 3G is probably limited to him. What sucks about that, is that it's supposed to be a communist state, where everybody is equal... But Kim Jong Il is living in luxury and indulging in international luxuries while everybody else is starving.
I never thought of it like that but you are right. In my honest to God opinion, what America needs to do is be what they were back before World War 1 and be isolationists. We shouldn't deal with international affairs. America would be so different and possibly better in my opinion if we were like that today. What do you think?
Hehe, did they state as to why they did not like the place much?
*nods* That is really true.
They were? I'd actually love to take a crack at sleeping on one of those, X3. And it's good that you didn't see the hotel sirens.
Quick question: Were you able to visit what you pleased or did the minders have all these events planned out?
I never thought of it like that but you are right. In my honest to God opinion, what America needs to do is be what they were back before World War 1 and be isolationists. We shouldn't deal with international affairs. America would be so different and possibly better in my opinion if we were like that today. What do you think?
Hehe, did they state as to why they did not like the place much?
*nods* That is really true.
They were? I'd actually love to take a crack at sleeping on one of those, X3. And it's good that you didn't see the hotel sirens.
Quick question: Were you able to visit what you pleased or did the minders have all these events planned out?
Hardly communist. Even during the Cold War, they only paid lipservice to communist and socialist values. These days, they only mention communism in three or four instances in their constitution. Go back to my mention that some East German diplomats found the place closer to Nazi Germany.
America needn't be isolationist. But just become another player in world affairs rather than the self-prescribed leader. And to do that, it will need to let go of its obsession of all world values and systems being one and same and let of of the notion that America is "God's own country". It is the American exceptionalism, defined by those two things, that prompts America in interfering in other countries' affairs constantly. That and that war has been a frequent way of unifying the country. I mean, a country that has existed for 235 years and has been in one war or the other for 209 of those years...
The Chinese probably don't like how static and disconnected the place is. Haven't gone to detail due to language barrier but an older Chinese mentioned that the place resembles China in the 1960s, during which North Korea was actually a better place to be than China. Some Chinese I spoke back in China also said that they just felt sorry for North Koreans.
The floor beds are a matter of opinion I suppose. For some reason I always found floor beddings more comfortable *shrug*
The minders have planned things out. That said, we were able to convince them to take us to Pyongyang Metro (though they were visibly unhappy about it). We were also able to wiggle out of a visit to Mount Paektu, at Kim Jong Il's supposed birthplace which, I heard, was a long drive and not terribly interesting. It depends on the rapport you have with them and the relationship your group/team leader has with the authorities.
Also, thanks for watching =3
America needn't be isolationist. But just become another player in world affairs rather than the self-prescribed leader. And to do that, it will need to let go of its obsession of all world values and systems being one and same and let of of the notion that America is "God's own country". It is the American exceptionalism, defined by those two things, that prompts America in interfering in other countries' affairs constantly. That and that war has been a frequent way of unifying the country. I mean, a country that has existed for 235 years and has been in one war or the other for 209 of those years...
The Chinese probably don't like how static and disconnected the place is. Haven't gone to detail due to language barrier but an older Chinese mentioned that the place resembles China in the 1960s, during which North Korea was actually a better place to be than China. Some Chinese I spoke back in China also said that they just felt sorry for North Koreans.
The floor beds are a matter of opinion I suppose. For some reason I always found floor beddings more comfortable *shrug*
The minders have planned things out. That said, we were able to convince them to take us to Pyongyang Metro (though they were visibly unhappy about it). We were also able to wiggle out of a visit to Mount Paektu, at Kim Jong Il's supposed birthplace which, I heard, was a long drive and not terribly interesting. It depends on the rapport you have with them and the relationship your group/team leader has with the authorities.
Also, thanks for watching =3
Really? So they do not consider themselves a communist state?
You know... You really are right. I often wish to myself that America dealt with international affairs differently. But what sucks... Is that a lot of countries that need help ask the UN, and then the UN gets America to do it. Which isn't right at all.
I think the Chinese view it in that way as well. I often wonder what North Korea was like after the war... Did they state why they felt sorry for the North Koreans?
Really? That's pretty awesome!
How'd you convince them to do that?
You are very welcome, :D
I know this may be kinda off topic, but I was at the beach today, and there was a pile of sand on the ground towel that looked exactly like Korea, XD.
You know... You really are right. I often wish to myself that America dealt with international affairs differently. But what sucks... Is that a lot of countries that need help ask the UN, and then the UN gets America to do it. Which isn't right at all.
I think the Chinese view it in that way as well. I often wonder what North Korea was like after the war... Did they state why they felt sorry for the North Koreans?
Really? That's pretty awesome!
How'd you convince them to do that?
You are very welcome, :D
I know this may be kinda off topic, but I was at the beach today, and there was a pile of sand on the ground towel that looked exactly like Korea, XD.
"Korean Style Socialism" is the official name, but lacks most characteristics of socialism. Did even back in the starting days. Soviets were complaining that Kim Il Sung was not well versed at all on Marxism-Leninism.
US uses the UN for its purposes (like everyone else really) and backs it when it suits its purposes, pooh poohing the UN and ignoring the resolutions when it doesn't suit its needs. Besides, there are many other countries that give UN peacekeepers. You don'ty hear about them, don't you.
They feel sorry for them because of the poverty of course. Dandong pretty much highlights it. It is a bright and vibrant shining city. Just across the river it is abject darkness on the Korean side. Can't imagine how it must be for Koreans to watch it. Look at my photo with the bridge. It pretty much highlights the contrast.
It just needs some convincing. I wasn't the one doing the talking so I wouldn't know. Flattering them helps sometimes
Man I'm jealous you're at the beach. Been longing to swim for a while now but may find myself stuck in London in internship pans out.
US uses the UN for its purposes (like everyone else really) and backs it when it suits its purposes, pooh poohing the UN and ignoring the resolutions when it doesn't suit its needs. Besides, there are many other countries that give UN peacekeepers. You don'ty hear about them, don't you.
They feel sorry for them because of the poverty of course. Dandong pretty much highlights it. It is a bright and vibrant shining city. Just across the river it is abject darkness on the Korean side. Can't imagine how it must be for Koreans to watch it. Look at my photo with the bridge. It pretty much highlights the contrast.
It just needs some convincing. I wasn't the one doing the talking so I wouldn't know. Flattering them helps sometimes
Man I'm jealous you're at the beach. Been longing to swim for a while now but may find myself stuck in London in internship pans out.
That is true. I noticed that they hardly follow Communism's original ideas. First, they have classes. 1) Intellectuals, 2) Workers, 3) Peasants. If he was not well versed on Marxism, then why did the Russians support him?
No I do not. What other countries give UN peacekeepers?
Really? Wow... That is quite sad... I wish someone can help them. But that is what is so fascinating about North Korea to me. These peasants are starving and dying. Have some of the worst heath care but yet... They can still hang on to the love of their Dear Leader and Great Leader. I feel bad for them as well. You know the woman that I mentioned earlier? She was in the National Geographic video. She was blind and a doctor made her see. What did she do? She went to the picture of the Dear Leader and said "Thank you Dear Leader! Thank you for holding me in your arms and healing me! I will work harder in the salt mines!"
What'd you say to flatter them? I often wish I could go... But would they allow an American in is the question.
That sucks man, :( I hope you can go swimming sometime!
No I do not. What other countries give UN peacekeepers?
Really? Wow... That is quite sad... I wish someone can help them. But that is what is so fascinating about North Korea to me. These peasants are starving and dying. Have some of the worst heath care but yet... They can still hang on to the love of their Dear Leader and Great Leader. I feel bad for them as well. You know the woman that I mentioned earlier? She was in the National Geographic video. She was blind and a doctor made her see. What did she do? She went to the picture of the Dear Leader and said "Thank you Dear Leader! Thank you for holding me in your arms and healing me! I will work harder in the salt mines!"
What'd you say to flatter them? I often wish I could go... But would they allow an American in is the question.
That sucks man, :( I hope you can go swimming sometime!
There are classes but it is not what you listed. That is their "official" line. Unofficially, there are the trusted classes that get most privilages, the in-line classes that constitute most of the country and are basically those that have neither offended nor excelled. Ordinary people, you see. And there are the untrusted ones, descendants of political dissidents, land owners and so on who get the short end of most things. Russians (and Chinese) supported him because he was the best (and pretty much only) prominent figure he was.
India has quite a lot of UN troops operating in Africa (mainly Congo) and parts of Asia. China has been upping it too to improve its prestige and let its troops have foreign experience. Most UN troops during the Balkan wars were European, the undermanned Dutch peacekeepers being the ones that were forced to leave Srebernica. I think the peacekeepers in Rwanda were European too. Can't recall though. Turkey has some, although most of its foreign soldiers are in the Balkans with NATO and a few in Afghanistan on advisory capacity. Those are the ones I can immidiately think of.
Their devotion makes a lot more sense when you consider the Kims not as a leader per se but, like I mentioned, the embodiment of Koreanness and perfect Korean purity. To a man with nothing, being part of that pure lineage is something to take pride in and hold on to. It is a tactic well used in previous regimes. There is a lot of motherly characteristics (protection, care, love) attributed to them that you can sort of make sense of the reaction. Official propaganda avoids attributing supernatural talents to them though.
American tourists are fine really. You can go there. Most of our group was American. As for flattery, just keep a respectful tone during conversations. Your tour leader (not the Korean ones, the head of whatever travel agency you're visiting with) will brief you on that. Leave the convincing talk to them.
Me too. But I might be getting an internship soon, meaning I'm gonna be stuck in London :-/
India has quite a lot of UN troops operating in Africa (mainly Congo) and parts of Asia. China has been upping it too to improve its prestige and let its troops have foreign experience. Most UN troops during the Balkan wars were European, the undermanned Dutch peacekeepers being the ones that were forced to leave Srebernica. I think the peacekeepers in Rwanda were European too. Can't recall though. Turkey has some, although most of its foreign soldiers are in the Balkans with NATO and a few in Afghanistan on advisory capacity. Those are the ones I can immidiately think of.
Their devotion makes a lot more sense when you consider the Kims not as a leader per se but, like I mentioned, the embodiment of Koreanness and perfect Korean purity. To a man with nothing, being part of that pure lineage is something to take pride in and hold on to. It is a tactic well used in previous regimes. There is a lot of motherly characteristics (protection, care, love) attributed to them that you can sort of make sense of the reaction. Official propaganda avoids attributing supernatural talents to them though.
American tourists are fine really. You can go there. Most of our group was American. As for flattery, just keep a respectful tone during conversations. Your tour leader (not the Korean ones, the head of whatever travel agency you're visiting with) will brief you on that. Leave the convincing talk to them.
Me too. But I might be getting an internship soon, meaning I'm gonna be stuck in London :-/
Really? Dang. Didn't think that they'd have classes like that. What do you mean by "prominent" figure?
I've heard about the UN peacekeepers in Rwanda. I think they were... Belgians, there we go. It's just strange as to why I never hear about other UN peacekeeping troops.
Hmm... You know. You are right. Although if official propaganda avoids giving him supernatural talents, then why do they say that "he can control the weather based on his mood"?
No way! I thought because of the extreme hatred of Americans in that country, going there would be suicide. I'll need to see if maybe I can arrange a trip there when I'm much older.
Dang man! That sucks, :(
I've heard about the UN peacekeepers in Rwanda. I think they were... Belgians, there we go. It's just strange as to why I never hear about other UN peacekeeping troops.
Hmm... You know. You are right. Although if official propaganda avoids giving him supernatural talents, then why do they say that "he can control the weather based on his mood"?
No way! I thought because of the extreme hatred of Americans in that country, going there would be suicide. I'll need to see if maybe I can arrange a trip there when I'm much older.
Dang man! That sucks, :(
Well, it helps manage rationing and etc... Pretty rough though, yes. By prominent, I mean Kim Il Sung was pretty much the most educated resistance/authority figure in the North at the time the Soviets tried to establish a commuist government. He was an experienced militaryman and apparently would have preferred to stay in the military if the Soviets did not convince him to enter politics. It helps that he was born in Russia. He still was versed very little in Marxist-Lenininsm.
Most of the work they do is low-key aid giving and protection. I suppose the media doesn't deem it worthy unless something is happening, and the US doesn't deem joining it worthy unless it is for a pro-US cause. Doesn't help that the US is so UN-sceptic.
You gotta distinguish between subtly encouraged folk tales from actual statements. People on the ground may hold such beliefs but if the government started making such claims, that would make things like the 1990s famine directly his responsibility (or failure). The propaganda apparatus prefers to keep things vague but relatively plausible. In that respect, any (supposedly) supernatural sign is attributed to their divine purity than them having magical powers. Think of it as how you believed your mom and dad would protect you from the monsters under the bed. Even as you grow up, the association in your mind with them and the notion of safety never really goes away.
Well, from what I know, they do a small background check. Make sure you're not a reporter or a politician. After that, it's all about paying up. Whether they actually like or dislike American tourists is a matter of opinion I imagine. But the tourists bring the money, so they are at least willing to pretend that they make a difference between US government and US civilians even if they may not believe in it.
We will see about the summer really. Kinda want to go home but at the same time, gonna miss seeing friends and clubbing here if I do.
Most of the work they do is low-key aid giving and protection. I suppose the media doesn't deem it worthy unless something is happening, and the US doesn't deem joining it worthy unless it is for a pro-US cause. Doesn't help that the US is so UN-sceptic.
You gotta distinguish between subtly encouraged folk tales from actual statements. People on the ground may hold such beliefs but if the government started making such claims, that would make things like the 1990s famine directly his responsibility (or failure). The propaganda apparatus prefers to keep things vague but relatively plausible. In that respect, any (supposedly) supernatural sign is attributed to their divine purity than them having magical powers. Think of it as how you believed your mom and dad would protect you from the monsters under the bed. Even as you grow up, the association in your mind with them and the notion of safety never really goes away.
Well, from what I know, they do a small background check. Make sure you're not a reporter or a politician. After that, it's all about paying up. Whether they actually like or dislike American tourists is a matter of opinion I imagine. But the tourists bring the money, so they are at least willing to pretend that they make a difference between US government and US civilians even if they may not believe in it.
We will see about the summer really. Kinda want to go home but at the same time, gonna miss seeing friends and clubbing here if I do.
*comes back to me* Oh that's right. He was born in Russia.
I often wonder at times... How would the Korean War be different if it was not for the Chinese and Russians backing the North Koreans?
I don't understand as to why they'd tell him to join politics even though he was not versed in Marxist-Leninism.
Hmm... Didn't think of it that way. Kinda sucks if you ask me.
Dang! The government would really think that far ahead huh?
Hmm... I find that quite strange. Because some reporters are able to get in. Did you hear the story about that journalist who got into North Korea and they captured her and put her into a work camp? She got released a year later after a bunch of political talk.
Ooh... Clubbing!
I often wonder at times... How would the Korean War be different if it was not for the Chinese and Russians backing the North Koreans?
I don't understand as to why they'd tell him to join politics even though he was not versed in Marxist-Leninism.
Hmm... Didn't think of it that way. Kinda sucks if you ask me.
Dang! The government would really think that far ahead huh?
Hmm... I find that quite strange. Because some reporters are able to get in. Did you hear the story about that journalist who got into North Korea and they captured her and put her into a work camp? She got released a year later after a bunch of political talk.
Ooh... Clubbing!
They probably thought he could be educated, or at least managed. And for what its worth, North Korea was on their side for the duration of the Cold War. Just wasn't as friendly to them as most people think.
It is a thankless job, peacekeeping for the UN. Bureaucracy and corruption doesn't help. But it is the better than the alternative.
Wouldn't say its forward thinking. Just pragmatic. It is the standard rule of propaganda: Reality makes far better propaganda than fabrication. And when you attribute moral superiority over magical powers, it becomes effective and hard to disprove.
Well some get in, then they do stupid stuff and get captured and be arrested. You don't do stupid stuff, not while there.
Yeah. Clubbing. I'm into the more alternative scene which isn't very common in most places. Got myself a footing in London so not keen to leave it. Have an obsession with playing catchups.
It is a thankless job, peacekeeping for the UN. Bureaucracy and corruption doesn't help. But it is the better than the alternative.
Wouldn't say its forward thinking. Just pragmatic. It is the standard rule of propaganda: Reality makes far better propaganda than fabrication. And when you attribute moral superiority over magical powers, it becomes effective and hard to disprove.
Well some get in, then they do stupid stuff and get captured and be arrested. You don't do stupid stuff, not while there.
Yeah. Clubbing. I'm into the more alternative scene which isn't very common in most places. Got myself a footing in London so not keen to leave it. Have an obsession with playing catchups.
I think you may be interested in seeing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj9uNKT07xs
Hmm... Interesting to both.
It actually does? Hmm... Wow.
Footing?
Hmm... Interesting to both.
It actually does? Hmm... Wow.
Footing?
Yes I think I had seen this. Thanks for linking it to me :)
Well, think about it. When you attribute supernatural powers, then one wonders why the leader could not protect them with those powers, or worse, when the said powers seem to be working against them (say, controlling the weather and having a draught). It is easier to justify this with Gods but it becomes a tricky matter even then, hence the story of Job (was it Job?) in the Bible with the whole "testing the faith". Same reason why propaganda involving outright lies is the weakest kind of propaganda.
Whereas if you attribute moral superiority and the embodient of national pride to your leader and you can leave things a bit more opaque. You don't need to prove anything. Just maintain the image of purity of the leader. Americans do it too, what with Obama's struggle trying to paint himself as a good Christian in the leadup to the elections.
Well, footing as in, I have my friends here and I know some clubs to go in London. If I moved to a new city, I'd have trouble finding new places and people.
Well, think about it. When you attribute supernatural powers, then one wonders why the leader could not protect them with those powers, or worse, when the said powers seem to be working against them (say, controlling the weather and having a draught). It is easier to justify this with Gods but it becomes a tricky matter even then, hence the story of Job (was it Job?) in the Bible with the whole "testing the faith". Same reason why propaganda involving outright lies is the weakest kind of propaganda.
Whereas if you attribute moral superiority and the embodient of national pride to your leader and you can leave things a bit more opaque. You don't need to prove anything. Just maintain the image of purity of the leader. Americans do it too, what with Obama's struggle trying to paint himself as a good Christian in the leadup to the elections.
Well, footing as in, I have my friends here and I know some clubs to go in London. If I moved to a new city, I'd have trouble finding new places and people.
You're welcome! :D If you'd like, I can show you one of my favorite North Korean documentaries, :)
Hmm... You're right. Although I have not read the book of Job yet, X3. But speaking of propaganda, some of the pictures that you see around North Korea are very cool to look at, even though I don't know what's written on them.
True, but I've never seen Obama actually do that.
That's true. It'd suck if you'd have to move, :(
Hmm... You're right. Although I have not read the book of Job yet, X3. But speaking of propaganda, some of the pictures that you see around North Korea are very cool to look at, even though I don't know what's written on them.
True, but I've never seen Obama actually do that.
That's true. It'd suck if you'd have to move, :(
You could. Not sure if it is necessary though. I find that most of them say more or less the same things and some ding my bullshit alarm too badly.
I love the art of them too. That and Chinese poster art fascinates me more than the Soviet style.
Well, I remember a well-publiscized event when he attended sunday church couple weeks before election.
Yeah. That's why I don't wanna move too.
I love the art of them too. That and Chinese poster art fascinates me more than the Soviet style.
Well, I remember a well-publiscized event when he attended sunday church couple weeks before election.
Yeah. That's why I don't wanna move too.
Well, one, for isntance, refers to North Korea as "the world's largest prison camp". It's authoritarian but that is not what I would call it. In the end, people still live there, some volluntarily. Likewise, one said that after the war, "the foundations of democracy" were being built in South Korea whereas it was a military dictatorship itself till the 80s.
I am more into the imagery really. I think they look beautiful.
I am more into the imagery really. I think they look beautiful.
Well of course. You can never have a fully neutral account. Regardless. I just grew to take things with a pinch of salt after seeing for myself that the rumor that you get arrested if you are not wearing a Kim Il Sung pin is wrong. Not supporting North or South either way. Just trying to get to the root :)
Well, it is not hard getting there as a tourist actually. Truly surreal place.
Though I would say that what they care about, on an ideological level at least, is more Korea and Koreanness itself. In a way, Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il are the manifestations of the pure "Koreanness" and the parents/protectors of the country.
Thanks for faving btw :)
Though I would say that what they care about, on an ideological level at least, is more Korea and Koreanness itself. In a way, Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il are the manifestations of the pure "Koreanness" and the parents/protectors of the country.
Thanks for faving btw :)
And wait... this lady here... I sworn I saw her in a National Geographic documentary!
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