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Anthro Bat With WINGS - SL avatar concept for mesh!
SCRIBBLY CONCEPT WOO!! Okay, this is going to be my goal for Second Life avatars and the first Clockwork London Critters release! I'm absolutely determined to make this, even if this exact plan doesn't work out.
I only have a basic understanding of how SL's new mesh option will work, so I don't know if I can do this exactly the way I want. (if you know more about it, please fill me in!) Ideally, the wing would be a single attachment spanning the whole arm to move like an actual bat wing. The default bones it would have to deform around are marked in red.
I don't know if I can do this without making this a full mesh av. I'd really like to keep the default LL body if possible, so people can change their body shape and wear clothes, but if I absolutely cannot I will have to find a workaround for doing this as a full-mesh av.
However it needs to be done, I TOTALLY WANT TO MAKE THIS!
I only have a basic understanding of how SL's new mesh option will work, so I don't know if I can do this exactly the way I want. (if you know more about it, please fill me in!) Ideally, the wing would be a single attachment spanning the whole arm to move like an actual bat wing. The default bones it would have to deform around are marked in red.
I don't know if I can do this without making this a full mesh av. I'd really like to keep the default LL body if possible, so people can change their body shape and wear clothes, but if I absolutely cannot I will have to find a workaround for doing this as a full-mesh av.
However it needs to be done, I TOTALLY WANT TO MAKE THIS!
Category Scraps / Doodle
Species Bat
Size 881 x 600px
File Size 54.9 kB
it is, the meshes themselves if not done for the avatar can be prims :3. They just take up a prim value based on how many poly's or whatever LL uses to measure their render costs. Totally doable :3.
I think you are on the right path by preserving the base SL avatar shape for people who like to wear clothes. Modability has always been a big deal to furries for the most part, so as long as you keep your own style intact with that in mind :3, you should have a bloody gold mine with avatars :D.
I think you are on the right path by preserving the base SL avatar shape for people who like to wear clothes. Modability has always been a big deal to furries for the most part, so as long as you keep your own style intact with that in mind :3, you should have a bloody gold mine with avatars :D.
Yes, exactly! I want to allow people to alter their body shape on my avatars and wear human clothes...that's really important! I'd really like to try to implement 'mix 'n match' type options for features as best I can, too, to make up for the more 'static'ness of mesh attachments.
And I really hope so, that people will love this stuff and I can make good money!
And I really hope so, that people will love this stuff and I can make good money!
I have a really hard time getting ahold of Toki and Racush...but I'll see if I can. Maya will prolly be more willing to talk to me, though...didn't know she knew anything about mesh. I'll have to talk to her and see what I can find out!
And I'm really glad you like this idea! I'm psyched about trying to make it!
And I'm really glad you like this idea! I'm psyched about trying to make it!
Me too!! I hate the look of back wings on anthro bats, but love the look of arm-wings...so I badly want to create proper stretchy awesome ones! I think the timing would be perfect, too...not only am I working on opening up CLC, but ideally I'll have learned Blender by the time they fully implement mesh in SL. <3
I'm not sure if it's possible to make mesh attachments work with the bones in the avatar. I think, unfortunately, that'd have to be worked into an entire mesh avatar.
I think mesh attachments will work like the sculpties do, rather than with the avatar bones. If they could, that'd be great! If not... then you'd probably have to make a full mesh avatar. Maybe, if you could figure out how SL makes their body warps, you could work that coding in to work with your avatar bodies. (That is, if LL thinks about that as a possibility.) But as for human clothes working with it...? With the wings like that, that's definately not going to happen on a mesh body. You'd pretty much have to make your own line of clothing for one avatar!
But yeah; if the bones can work with the mesh attachments, then we'll probably be seeing some cool mesh digilegs that may have their own specialized skeletons, but may also work with normal poses.
</rambling>
I think mesh attachments will work like the sculpties do, rather than with the avatar bones. If they could, that'd be great! If not... then you'd probably have to make a full mesh avatar. Maybe, if you could figure out how SL makes their body warps, you could work that coding in to work with your avatar bodies. (That is, if LL thinks about that as a possibility.) But as for human clothes working with it...? With the wings like that, that's definately not going to happen on a mesh body. You'd pretty much have to make your own line of clothing for one avatar!
But yeah; if the bones can work with the mesh attachments, then we'll probably be seeing some cool mesh digilegs that may have their own specialized skeletons, but may also work with normal poses.
</rambling>
I really REALLY hope I can get it to work like this...the clothes would look odd with the wings, sure, but they could basically just be made sleeveless by them. By human clothes I mean that they could have the diversity of the clothing humans can wear, the textures. There's SO MUCH clothing on SL they could choose from and I don't want to limit that, since these would be publicly available. The really big thing more than clothes, though...is I want to allow the avatar shape to be changed with the sliders. I badly don't want everyone to be stuck with the default shape I give the av and no way to tweak it to be just right.
Is there more information on this somewhere? I'd still really love to make it, even if I have to make it a full-mesh av. It'd be a big shame, though. :<
Is there more information on this somewhere? I'd still really love to make it, even if I have to make it a full-mesh av. It'd be a big shame, though. :<
I know it does for complete mesh avatars, but if you look at my concept, it's meant to be partial mesh, still using the LL default body for the torso. Can that still be done here? Just the wings and possibly other parts would be mesh, separate attachments.... that's what I don't know if I can do with it. Y'know?
yeah, you can mix sculpts and mesh! You can have separated floating mesh pieces too if you want but you won't have the SL human avatar in there.. unless you include it as part of the mesh. It's kind of weird.. x.x Koosh is probably better at explaining it, but yeah you can mix stuff!
errrr... I am totally completely confused. I can have it....but I can't have it??
Maybe I didn't explain right? Look at the concept...I wanna keep the LL default body (the thing that can be deformed with sliders and can wear clothes made for humans) but alpha-invis the arms and replace them with the wing mesh thing. Do you see what I'm trying to do? D:> I don't know if I can do this, and I REALLY don't want to make a full-mesh av and cause people to be unable to change their bodyshape or wear human clothes (these are important....)
Maybe I didn't explain right? Look at the concept...I wanna keep the LL default body (the thing that can be deformed with sliders and can wear clothes made for humans) but alpha-invis the arms and replace them with the wing mesh thing. Do you see what I'm trying to do? D:> I don't know if I can do this, and I REALLY don't want to make a full-mesh av and cause people to be unable to change their bodyshape or wear human clothes (these are important....)
You can actually use the sliders on any mesh avatar.. but yeah clothes won't fit. You could attack the wing arms to the SL polygon mesh.. and then just rig it together! I am not sure if it would work well, but it would be worth a shot. To have the default body though with other mesh.. you'd have to rig them as one thing together in one file.
...I still really cannot follow what you're trying to explain. Help. T_T
People can change their body shape with sliders if it's a mesh that completely replaces the model altogether, though? Like make it taller/shorter/fatter/thinner?
I don't understand the rest of it...at all...I'm confused.
Here, lemme try again ...
I want this av to be able to wear clothes made for humans. People will want this.
I want people to be able to change their body shape with sliders. People will want this.
I want the arm to be a wing as pictured, a mesh attachment that covers the whole arm and (ideally) attaches to the body as pictured.
How do I do that? CAN I do that? I'm so incredibly lost with these explanations. @_@
People can change their body shape with sliders if it's a mesh that completely replaces the model altogether, though? Like make it taller/shorter/fatter/thinner?
I don't understand the rest of it...at all...I'm confused.
Here, lemme try again ...
I want this av to be able to wear clothes made for humans. People will want this.
I want people to be able to change their body shape with sliders. People will want this.
I want the arm to be a wing as pictured, a mesh attachment that covers the whole arm and (ideally) attaches to the body as pictured.
How do I do that? CAN I do that? I'm so incredibly lost with these explanations. @_@
I am not sure.. BUT If you modeled the wings off of Ruth (the default SL avatar you can dowload in polygon mesh form off the SL website) in Maya, it may work is what I was saying.
The sliders work on mesh to an extent.
I don't think you can wear two mesh pieces at once so you'd have to model off Ruth although I may be wrong.
The sliders work on mesh to an extent.
I don't think you can wear two mesh pieces at once so you'd have to model off Ruth although I may be wrong.
Even with custom bones, wings would be hard. Have a backup plan if something isn't working like you expect.
UUID swapping with meshes will probably be gimped. They're saying custom bones is the "right way" to do it. And they're right. But they won't be giving us that. Consider using an actual prim that rotates/changes shape to blink, as heart-wrenching as it may be.
Looking forward to this one.
UUID swapping with meshes will probably be gimped. They're saying custom bones is the "right way" to do it. And they're right. But they won't be giving us that. Consider using an actual prim that rotates/changes shape to blink, as heart-wrenching as it may be.
Looking forward to this one.
...wait, what? I'm confused. Guh, every time someone tries to explain anything about this, I'm utterly lost about what they're talking about. I'm so not qualified to even try this. T_T
Are you saying there are NO CUSTOM BONES? This wing would need custom bones, wouldn't it? My concept is an attachment that covers multiple attachment points of the arm, you see? It needs to bend in all the places the av arm normally is able to bend, but be one piece so that the membranes of the wing will move the way I pictured.
I'm confused if this is possible or not?
Are you saying there are NO CUSTOM BONES? This wing would need custom bones, wouldn't it? My concept is an attachment that covers multiple attachment points of the arm, you see? It needs to bend in all the places the av arm normally is able to bend, but be one piece so that the membranes of the wing will move the way I pictured.
I'm confused if this is possible or not?
No custom bones for the initial release of meshes. We'll get them eventually, just not yet.
The argument is, if custom bones are the "right" way to change the model, and not UUID swapping (which is true), then we need custom bones off the bat, especially if we're not getting exploitable UUID swapping.
You CAN resize and reposition the bones. Meshes include something along the lines of supported deformations. But you can't change the bone hierarchy, nor add bones.
Unless something has changed -- I've been busy, haven't watched closely. But everything I've seen says they want to release meshes ASAP, which means not making it "feature complete" before release.
The argument is, if custom bones are the "right" way to change the model, and not UUID swapping (which is true), then we need custom bones off the bat, especially if we're not getting exploitable UUID swapping.
You CAN resize and reposition the bones. Meshes include something along the lines of supported deformations. But you can't change the bone hierarchy, nor add bones.
Unless something has changed -- I've been busy, haven't watched closely. But everything I've seen says they want to release meshes ASAP, which means not making it "feature complete" before release.
Errr I'm really confused here. I also seem to be unable to explain this properly to ANYONE... argh.
I've seen people create 100% custom meshes, as long as they have all the same joints as the default SL mesh bones...I know that can be done. Tokushi has already started on that, see these links: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4832279/ http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4868641/ (there was a video as well of the second one actually animating inside the SL beta, but it's gone now?)
The problem is that I've been informed that if you create a 100% custom mesh like this, the avatar can no longer wear clothes designed for human avs. This is unacceptable for me. :/ SO I want to keep the human mesh and only replace the arm (with the pictured wing)... do you understand what I mean, there?
I want to keep the torso and upper legs able to wear human clothing textures, and the body shape able to be modified with the appearance sliders.
BUT.
I want to somehow edit or add on a mesh piece on JUST THE ARMS, so that the membranes of the wings will stretch properly.
I've seen people create 100% custom meshes, as long as they have all the same joints as the default SL mesh bones...I know that can be done. Tokushi has already started on that, see these links: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4832279/ http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4868641/ (there was a video as well of the second one actually animating inside the SL beta, but it's gone now?)
The problem is that I've been informed that if you create a 100% custom mesh like this, the avatar can no longer wear clothes designed for human avs. This is unacceptable for me. :/ SO I want to keep the human mesh and only replace the arm (with the pictured wing)... do you understand what I mean, there?
I want to keep the torso and upper legs able to wear human clothing textures, and the body shape able to be modified with the appearance sliders.
BUT.
I want to somehow edit or add on a mesh piece on JUST THE ARMS, so that the membranes of the wings will stretch properly.
You're familiar with "skin alpha" correct? Where you can apply a texture to the avatar that makes the skin transparent?
Skin alpha is required for mesh-based avatars to function. What happens is that you "wear" the mesh, and the avatar skin is still there. Then you put on the skin alpha, and the avatar mesh disappears.
Does clothing disappear with skin alpha? I honestly don't know. I don't think so.
Does clothing deform when you change the position/shape of bones? Maybe, I don't know. If it does, does it do it gracefully? Again, don't know. Probably not.
You can add mesh just on the arms, and have the arm/wing rigged to the arm bones, then alpha out the default arms so only your mesh arms show up. Yes. After that, I don't know.
Skin alpha is required for mesh-based avatars to function. What happens is that you "wear" the mesh, and the avatar skin is still there. Then you put on the skin alpha, and the avatar mesh disappears.
Does clothing disappear with skin alpha? I honestly don't know. I don't think so.
Does clothing deform when you change the position/shape of bones? Maybe, I don't know. If it does, does it do it gracefully? Again, don't know. Probably not.
You can add mesh just on the arms, and have the arm/wing rigged to the arm bones, then alpha out the default arms so only your mesh arms show up. Yes. After that, I don't know.
...Errr, it says right on the concept sketch that I'm meaning to use a skin alpha. Look closer, at the bluegrey arm, and notice I marked that the bluegrey part should be alpha'd. I know what it is and how it works...I've used it. o_O Clothing does disappear with skin alpha, making that part of the av disappear, yes.
The last sentence is basically exactly answering what I was asking if I could do with mesh with this concept (other than if clothing will still work for sure when I put mesh on the arm). I'm confused now..?
The last sentence is basically exactly answering what I was asking if I could do with mesh with this concept (other than if clothing will still work for sure when I put mesh on the arm). I'm confused now..?
well i don't know much about the subject myself but in basic terms 3d objects need bones to move. LL is limiting us to only being able to use the bones in the second life avatar to rig our meshes with. outside of second life, in a regular old 3d program, you could make that wing, and rig bones in it so that it folds, and stuff. i think of them like hinges kinda. of course i am really not an expert (someone like synchra could probably shed more light on in since she works heavily in 3d programs). not too sure of all the constraints LL has on stuff at the moment. i have only played on the mesh grid a couple of times (and only uploaded a dumpster i made in 3ds max lol) but as far as i know, you cannot add new bones to the skeleton that the avatar already has, but you can rig your mesh to link to those bones so that it moves around with the avvie.
here however http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JHWDdrIeD0 is a video which explains how to rig in blender for second life mesh, which might be useful on your quest.
i think you got some infos up above this comment as well.
here however http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JHWDdrIeD0 is a video which explains how to rig in blender for second life mesh, which might be useful on your quest.
i think you got some infos up above this comment as well.
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