hehe, I remember playing D&D once as a Half Elven ranger. Fighting against a skeleton warrior with a bow and arrow. I shot him, rolled a 20/20 and turned it's bony butt into powder. My friends and I were all 0.0

How'd that work out? Skeletons are undead, thus immune to critts :P
And got DR against pie/slash if I recall correctly, since they lack internal... anything x3

Nice call, Satch. Have yourself an internet.

Yay x3
And don't judge me, I'm so nerdy to the point it almost arouses me xD

I was 14 years old, so was the DM. >.> we didn't exactly follow the rules.

Hehe, fair enough x3
But still, logic can tend to pop in in such cases, aka: DM discretion :P

hey, for a 20/20 i'd at least say bits break off...it may not have discernible anatomy, but it still has obvious weak points such as joints
in all honesty how would you really approach killing a walking pile of bones that didn't involve bashing it to bits >^!^<

In terms of nerding: A undead is composed of negative energy, by hitting on the undead, you "expel" this energy, the greater damage, the more energy is lost, until it have lost all, thus cease to "function".
There however is no "weak spot" to an undead due to it not using any of the vital organs in it's body.
A critical hit would then not be to logical, apart from the whole "being a damn good hit".

The 20/20 rule however would work, (so far as hitting at least) some use the 20/20/20 sometimes to (instant kill, no matter what)
And yes, bashing, but that is bludgeoning damage, not piercing or slashing ;3

heh, like I said, we were 14 at the time. Logic didn't start playing a big part in my mindset till I was around 16.

Hehe, I know x3
I'm just a bit to intimate with logic and common sense for my own good xD

Oh, I am now myself, but back then I really didn't give a 20 sided about it.

I don't think I did to much either hehe, but I tended to go "Wait a minute..." sometimes :P

Not anymore! 4e did away with that whole "undead are immune to crits" thing, because it made rogues sad and unable to do much against them. Plus, it meant we couldn't decapitate zombies with a headshot.

Any rogue whining about this should just take the feat: Death Angel or Analyze Unliving: Undead.
And read other post regarding zombies. This is not movies, otherwise zombies would spread a shitload more in d&d xD
I play by the 3.5 personally, to much got weirded up in 4.0

Agreed on that 4.0 thing. What kind of junk is D20 trying to pass on us now?

It's what house rules are for :P
That, and you can always choose to play with 3.5 rules :3

I consider it broken. Blowing a feat just to keep your class from being useless against undead? Ehn.

4.0 fixed a lot I thought was broken with D&D.

It's called "balance", who should logically be best at fighting a undead monstrosity? A defender of the light, or a guy that sneaks around and stabs people in the back? And how do you "backstab" an ooze? Really?
The three "basic" parts were the "rock, paper, scissor" thing, rogue beats mage, mage beats warrior, warrior beats rogue.

WoW has done about what 4.0 have, thrown all classes in a big pile and just mixing them all to make all good at everything.
The "logical" thing about D&D was that everyone had their role, if you wanted to stealth into somewhere, you sent the rogue, if you wanted someone to charm some guards, send the bard, someone to... do random things with magic, send the wizard.
You don't send a fighter in full plate to stealth, or give a bard heavy armor and a claymore, nor the gnome sorcerer a elven longbow or etc.

A character is not supposed to be best at everything, nor able to do everything.
Is the barbarian class broken since it got illiteracy and can't use magic devices?
No. It's not, it's what that makes that class special. Like aquatic elves, they're not broken just since they can't breathe air on land.
If you want to PP and/or meta game, then yes, you could call them "broken".

I agree, a character isn't supposed to be best at everything. But to have them essentially sit out of a battle because they're more of a liability than an asset? That's not fun, and that's not balanced.

It's just to get an enchanted weapons, some holy water equipment or a feat as said.
The problem with 4.0 is that they're trying to make it a MMORPG'er.
You have to specialize or improvise in most cases, it's like you'd be a fire mage, and then complain that "fire elementals are broken since I can't hurt them with my fireballs".

It's all about being tactical and know what to use ;3

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

*Adjusts monocle* It seems to quite indeed x3
Unless you can give me logical explanations why everyone should be good at everything, how you critically hit something with no vital parts, how exactly you sneak attack an ooze, how you kill a fire elemental with fire balls, and possibly just mention some of these "big improvements/fixing said "broken" things" I'll have to disagree with you :P

*facepalm* I thought we were just going to be done with this, but if you want to be pedantic:

I already said, it's not about "everyone should be good at everything," so bringing it up again is foolish. Undead have a vital part if you've ever watched a zombie flick (ie. the head). I'll give you oozes. Fire elementals are still vulnerable to magic, so fireballs still hurt just not as badly. And I'm not going to bother listing things that IMO are improvements/fixes, since you seem to have your mind made up already.

So. Done.

Hehe, you have to excuse me sometimes, I'm not to good when it comes to understanding certain things ^=^'

Well, that is a "vital" part in a way, but not overall. (you'd just greatly reduce their change to hit, notice and bite you) D&D is not based on zombie flicks, since then you'd get infected from zombies, and they'd be a hell lot of more dangerous enemy :P
Everything have to give in to oozes eventually hehe xD And I can accept the fire part, due to magic being magic, you can't use logic in that part x3

And actually not, it's just that so far, most things in 4.0 seem to just try to make it more into a MMORPG-eger.
And when I've asked people about what "good changes" were made, they just tend to talk about some "flaw" in 3.5 instead of telling me how they fixed said flaw in 4.0, or about anything for that matter.
I've read through some parts, but not went to far into there, due to people already kinda set the "you'll like this if you like the current MMORPG setting". Sorry for bothering you thou :3

Oh, it's not a bother. I stuck my nose in.

Personally, the improvements in 4e I like are:
1) Survivability at lower levels
2) Healers aren't forced to just sit back and heal (there's some viable self-healing, and healers get to do other fun stuff too)
3) Easier for new players, but still customizable for experienced folks
4) Much more action-oriented; stuff you'd have to make up on the fly in older editions is given rules, but you can still make up stuff if you want.
(eg. swinging from a chandelier, feinting attacks, forced movement...)
5) Better options for out-of-combat magic (rituals)

I've considered going back and reworking 3.5e to include some of these features, but ... it's just more work than it's worth, really. Pathfinder was a cool compromise, but I just enjoy 4e's feel too much to go back at this point.

Heh, you went into the threat range x3

And ah, okies =3
And I'd say it'd be a choice really, making it "better" through adding and removing stuff from the 3,5 or the 4,0 system. (or simply just playing one of them) My RP group have edited the 3.5 edition to fit better with some house rules. (Since really, according to both edition, I can slap 5 large ditherbombs on my kobold and then hump someone in the face with her, then have all these blow off, kill a bunch of people around her, yet leave her unharmed since she had evasion x3)

So I'd suggest making some house rules to 4.0 instead :P

Well, no wonder they're all so cranky if they've got DR vs pie. They probably can't taste it due to the reduction.

</silly typo humor>

Is it sad that I was actually thinking of the same thing myself? ^^() Fortunately, most of my epic RP stories involve the particular actions working out well, rather than crits per-se. Like the halfling rogue tumbling under a zombie, coming up behind it, and the flanking bonuses being *just* enough to make the ensuing attack hit - rekilling the thing, even without sneak attack.

Always nice to have a plan come together.

Well, they have no tongue either, that might cause problems xD

And yeah, if a certain part of your arsenal is taken from you, you just have to improvise in some other manor, I mean, if I'd meet undead with my vicious enchanted weapon, I'd just have to do something else to hurt them, instead of saying it'd be broken :P

Rolling a natural 20 spawned Zengief?

... symbolically?.... aaaand... within a fictional environment. :D

lol i was waiting or my turn and i rolled two d20s...both came up nat 20 D: then when it was my turn to attack i rolled...a nat 1 ;.;

I suck at rolling the dice

Hehe very interesting!

thinking of her in that armor as a cosplayer is a pretty damn good image.....

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

roll dem bones!

Did miss some pages @.@?

Oh Zangief, will anyone ever be a bigger symbol of roid-rage?

Zangief is coming for ya, Teri.

rofl Zangief... my best Street Fighter character, especially when I turn it into a drinking game!

Beginners luck, the dice are loaded.
Joking.
Very funny.

Cleave cleave cleave!!

Fighter + Feats = Instant Fun.

Hopefully she doesn't have my luck with DnD....introduce yourself, hit awesomely and then when it really counts, the evil D20 makes you roll a 1.

I'm not sure what system they're on, but I've only ever had to confirm a critical in Pathfinder.