kinda reminds me of this Russian made firearm http://tinyurl.com/3dvfe3d

*was stupid and didn't read*

Hey at least you read my post. Sometimes I wonder if people do.

I should have read then posted a comment xD but being me... I personally always enjoyed thinking up weapon designs, I have this one design of a short bullpup assault rifle clambering 7.62's.

Very interesting. The look of the design is very eye catching and pleasing.

The spare magazine in the stock is a nice touch and the built in laser sight is great. The only thing I'd reconsider are the protective wings being used as a cocking handle. It's a great idea to make use of it, however it might end up cutting up someone's hands if they work it under stress.

Just some input. =3

Yeah I know that the Steyr company made a version of the MPi-69 that had a traditional cocking handle instead of using the front sight hood. They referred to it as the MPi-81. I know that some folks apparently found it odd and so they offered the alternative. I don't know if the problem you described was one of them.

Now you've got me curious. The round looks short, but it might give the slug that extra "Umph" to get through light armor. Is this based on actual ammunition, or part of the weapon concept art?

No that is a fairly accurate sketch of the .224 Boz round. Apparently the tungsten core AP version is capable "in theory" of putting a hole in a Bradley at 50 meters.

A short article on the round: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.224_Boz

Coooool! Now comes the fun part of designing the hardware that delivers them at 4,000 RPM.

I shall call it...The Midget Blaster!

Jokes aside, it's an interesting design

I am playing around with ideas for an on the fly ambidextrous bullpup rifle.
I also know how easy/difficult playing around with firearm ideas can be.

Everyone loves a machine pistol. And if you down, prepare to be sprayed.

I've seen your previous efforts and continue to be well impressed by your forays into this subject. Somewhere there is an animation project that needs a good realistic armorer not unlike in "Ghost in the Shell" I really hope you can hook up! nice!

I'm glad you are enjoying my bits of tech design brainstorming.

The PP2000 influence is obvious, from the foregrip to the spare mag position. The design looks very 80's.. a modern SMG would have to have more rails! ;) No bolt release, does it fire open bolt, or have an MP5-ish system?
Honestly I'd imagine something like this in 9x23.. .224 boz seems like it might have feeding problems with such a sharp shoulder, and the 9x21 7N29 AP is plenty capable on its own, or for a western design, .40 Super is a hell of a round, doubly so with subcaliber penetrators.

Nice design! Good choice with the .224 Boz, the research I remember seeing from when it was a prototype was pretty spectacular, and I suspect a lot of the theory was put to practical use in the more recent wave of PDW's and their accompanying rounds.
Couple of thoughts on the design:
The experience with protruding rigid cocking-knobs at the front of the weapon is that they have a nasty habit of catching on gear or other obstacles in close quarters and rendering the weapon inoperable (getting pushed back far enough that the cocking-mechanism stops the bolt from running all the way forward).
Grip-safeties should be relatively large and placed so that they work with bulky gloved hands, if a grip-safety isn't something that can be easily and reliably disengaged, troops tend to start engaging in "field modifications" to disable them, which often make them even *more* unreliable. I actually like the trigger-safety of the Glock, for preventing AD's; a simple lever that impinges on the frame if the trigger isn't actually being depressed is one of those KISS concepts that's so elementary, you have to wonder why nobody thought of it before.

If the grip safety gets 'deactivated' or just plain stuck, then that big open 'trigger guard' is an open invitation for something to get in there and cause havoc.
Also the short muzzle behind the laser could foul the laser's optics.
It is a neat looking weapon. Several great ideas.
Mag in the stock is really good. Too often these types of weapons are uncontrollable.
The extra sticking out the back could be tucked under an arm to aid in control.

Yes things can get wedged inside the trigger guard and cause trouble, but what seems to be a bigger complaint is that trigger guards are too small and they make operating the weapon when wearing gloves either awkward or even dangerous. That seems to be the reason why the Russians went with the large triggerguard on the KBP PP2000 themselves.

Khool!

Hmm - why not make the stock into the magazine?

Well the early prototypes of PP2000 actually did use just the magazine as the stock. However later models went with a more conventional stock. I have not heard why but I have couple ideas why the change might have occurred.

The first is that with only the magazine base plate as the butt stock it made for a rather tiny butt plate. True a 9x19mm buzz gun is not going to generate huge amounts of recoil but you would have a relatively small surface area transmitting the force. Also it may have not provided a very reassuring anchor point for the operator. If it didn't feel right it might have annoyed the shooters and distracted them during firing. Or perhaps the magazine wiggled and flexed during firing that bothered testers.

Second concern could have been for the magazine itself. Having the magazine sticking way out the back of the weapon with no support might have been viewed as a great way to damage it. True stick and drum magazines project from the bottoms, sides and top of firearms and can also get damaged, but in the early PP2000 it was really hanging out in the breeze. Only about half an inch of the magazine was inserted into the back of the weapon. Still it might have bothered someone enough, especially someone who might be funding the project, that they made the design revision. Would it be an entirely rational decision. No, maybe not. But humans are not entirely rational beings.

The "magazine as the stock" was actually a concept on a couple different prototype designs, but I suspect the real reason it never went forward was, in addition to the issues Baron listed, someone pointed out the simple issue: what if you have no spare magazines? Magazines are essentially considered semi-disposable, dropped when they're empty and policed-up afterwards. When you're down to the point where you use the stock/spare you're probably not going to have time to hunt about on the ground for an empty one to use as a stock.
Of course the other problem is that stocks get banged up pretty well, and banged-up/deformed magazines play merry hob with an SLR or SMG (I'm sure you've had experience with *that*!).

Also if things get really bad, even a skeleton folding stock can be used to club someone. Most magazines aren't really beefy enough to risk hitting someone with. Especially since if you're using a subgun, you have to assume you're likely going to be at very close ranges, and literally going around a corner and bumping into a bad guy is entirely possible, and has happened.

Yeah good point on running out of stock and needing to a moment replace the empty magazine just to give yourself a stock again. I do find it amazing that magazines hold up as well as they do considering the abuse they get handed out to them. I seem to remember that Israeli commanders had to tell their troops over and over again not to use the lips of their Galil rifles to open bottles with! Hmm, bet that played havoc with reliability.

It was so much of a problem that later models of the Galil, the hinge-point for the bipod actually is intended to work as a bottle opener.

That's a sleek-looking design—kind of futuristic. If I may critique, I think that a weapon system like that would benefit from a collapsible stock. As novel as the idea is of storing a mag in the stock, that seems like it'd make reloading inefficient; I can't imagine getting a quick, sturdy grip of that extra magazine. Plus, you'd have to remove the weapon from your shoulder to do so, which is another inefficient movement. If you're gonna stick anything in the buttstock, I think it'd be better off with a cleaning kit, keeping the extra mags to a belt or vest.

Well one of the ideas i had is that it might be issued to airmen and vehicle crews and this was a way of making certain that you always had a little extra ammo for the gun in an emergency. Think of it as a form of firearm insurance. For most occasions you'd do what you describe and reload primarily from your belt or tactical vest.

One of the things I do try and accomplish in many of my concept designs is not to make things too perfect. After all things in the real world rarely are. Either due to a lack of oversight, politics, both office and governmental, economics, or technological, things often end up with bumps and warts that make them less than perfect. Still it is amazing how many of these creations of man still succeed in performing their intended tasks.

very intensive study, also I definitely have to agree that the idea of having an extra magazine in the back end is an interesting possibility.

Reminds me of the Magpul folding Subgun : http://www.defensereview.com/magpul.....ubmachine-gun/

Very interesting concept. The similarities borrowed from the PP2000 were the very first thing I noticed, but the design is unique all its own. I like how the protective wings are the cocking level and the battery placement for the laser sight.

I'm sure Vipera will find someway to do big damage with this puppy.

When it comes to concept design sometimes its all matter of trying different combinations with components and asking "what if and why".

Yes Vipera could cause much mischief with one of those. Watching her put a Beretta M12S through its paces was very exciting! Looked like something from the movie RED.

I hope you won't have any objection to using your design(s) as inspiration when writing my own stories?

Have you seen the CAA Stocks they now offer for Glocks, Springfields and SIGs with the rail? Very nifty and much better than the older US Made conversion stuff.

Otoh I would think it is highly illegal to put it in use. At least in the US.

Oh ho ho! Yes it would be very owning a submachine gun would be illegal for a US Citizen unless they had a Class 3 license from the BATFE. Lived in a state that allows their citizens to own automatic weapons. The Peoples Republic of California is not one, and had a letter from their mommy saying they were a nice boy or girl!

I dont think they classify it as a machine gun, just as a SBR. And there is no such thing here.

weird design for the round, is the round real? I dont know why but it seems like it would jam with that design. Also putting another 30round mag in the stock could make it pretty heavy but if the whole gun is plastic then you might need the weight from it going all over the place.

No apparently jamming is not a problem. They even converted some HK MP5's that were originally chambered for 10mm Auto they ate the stuff up no problem.

An interesting design with some unusual elements; I believe I detect a hint of Steyr AUG in its background "DNA". In any case, I think I'd want the grip safety going down a bit farther. I do wonder what you do if you want something mounted other than the laser sight (I can see some ops desiring a high-powered light there). I think I'd be tempted to chamber it for 9x23 and possibly use a saboted sub-caliber round for when I wanted more piercing capability.

Very interesting design, but don't know how the internal spare mag would work with the spring system of the weapon.

Also it might be worth adding another selector at the front of the weapon to allow the laser to be used in visible light/ infared mode so that it can be used with night vision goggles.