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Banteris: Wow that sounded VERY scifi
Banteris: WE'RE GOING THREE LAYERS DEEP
Merystic: *spins top* FFFFFFFFF
Banteris: -it does a backflip-
Merystic: HAHA
Banteris: WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN
Merystic: THAT...ISNT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN
Banteris: THIS IS WEIRD
BURRRRRRR *inception music*
me n
henori
Banteris: WE'RE GOING THREE LAYERS DEEP
Merystic: *spins top* FFFFFFFFF
Banteris: -it does a backflip-
Merystic: HAHA
Banteris: WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN
Merystic: THAT...ISNT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN
Banteris: THIS IS WEIRD
BURRRRRRR *inception music*
me n
henori
Category Scraps / All
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 288 x 288px
File Size 694 kB
-on the set of the highly-anticipated Merystories blockbuster-
You: Okay, in scene 52, we introduce my character, Sam, with whom Prince Q falls in love and there's a makeout scene.
CM: Oh, I don't rememb--
You: ACTION *makout scene*
Me: *comes back from lunch* Wait, wha?
CM: Oh we were just filming scene 52
Me: Wait...there's no scene 52...
You: 8D 8D 8DDDD
You: Okay, in scene 52, we introduce my character, Sam, with whom Prince Q falls in love and there's a makeout scene.
CM: Oh, I don't rememb--
You: ACTION *makout scene*
Me: *comes back from lunch* Wait, wha?
CM: Oh we were just filming scene 52
Me: Wait...there's no scene 52...
You: 8D 8D 8DDDD
Nope.
The totem isn't his. Its a symbol of his guilt over his wife's death. The fact that at the time when he first touched it his wife was still alive, negating whatever value it may have had, so the possibility that he may never have really woken up after that point exists. He's not spinning it to tell whether or not he's in a dream--in fact, the spinning top at the end isn't even meant to be a question of whether or not he's still dreaming, because it doesn't matter. What matters is that he didn't bother to look. He left it behind, thus leaving his guilt behind. It was never his totem, because his was much more personal. A totem is an object meant to remind the person they're dreaming. He says at one point "in my dreams, we're still together".
In his dreams, he still wears his wedding ring.
The totem isn't his. Its a symbol of his guilt over his wife's death. The fact that at the time when he first touched it his wife was still alive, negating whatever value it may have had, so the possibility that he may never have really woken up after that point exists. He's not spinning it to tell whether or not he's in a dream--in fact, the spinning top at the end isn't even meant to be a question of whether or not he's still dreaming, because it doesn't matter. What matters is that he didn't bother to look. He left it behind, thus leaving his guilt behind. It was never his totem, because his was much more personal. A totem is an object meant to remind the person they're dreaming. He says at one point "in my dreams, we're still together".
In his dreams, he still wears his wedding ring.
I'll admit he did touch it before his wife died, but then she did die, leaving him as the only person alive who had touched that particular totem. However, there is a very distinct scene early in the movie where that old asiatic fellow (to prevent spoilers, no names ;) Watch the movie, kids.) touched and spun the top... yet that did not destroy the top's value. He was not only still able to, but willing to, use it again later.
Then again, this is an argument over the internet, so what's the point?
Then again, this is an argument over the internet, so what's the point?
Its not an argument, you're just trying to debate a fact about a movie for whatever reason. I'm not giving my opinions about some conspiracy theory, I'm giving well-established facts revealed through subtleties, and I'm not the only one "on the internet" as you say who's been able to solve it. The movie is designed like a labyrinth, its MEANT to get you to look even deeper and get you entrapped in its meaning, but few people ever move beyond "hurr, the top kept spinning it was all a dream". There's plenty of clues that are left that support everything I've said, but in order to be able to look for them yourself you have to stop focusing on the top and focus on Cobb's growth as a character. Don't treat the movie as a headcase movie--its only intellectual on the surface, the real value is what's underneath, the emotional side. I've followed Christopher Nolan with every movie he's ever written and directed, the man's brain works on an almost identical track as mine, its the reason I'm looking to get into making films myself.
Plain and simple: its not his totem. It never was. It never once states that it was. In fact, you're meant to start questioning it right from the point where he says it belonged to his wife, because the most important moments in which his totem make itself known happen after that point. He only ever wears his wedding ring during dream sequences, and even then you only SEE it at crucial plot points in the movie. It doesn't matter whether or not he's the only one alive who's touched the top because he's not using it to remind himself he's dreaming. We're meant to think so at first, admittedly, but never does a situation arise in which someone asks "hey, why are you spinning that" and he says "to see if I'm awake or not", because that's not the purpose it serves him. He's reminding himself of his guilt, of why he does what he does, to push forward and to be able to earn forgiveness for himself. When he leaves it behind at the end to go to his children, we clearly see it wobble before it cuts to black, and you don't need any kind of doctorate in any scientific field to know ITS GOING TO FALL. Its only tricking the eye, the intellect, of those who refuse to acknowledge this; the emotional weight the shot carries is meant to haunt more than anything, to represent that all it takes to break a man like Cobb was broken is one simple idea. But he beat the idea, beat his guilt, he made his way back home to his children, and earned his redemption, revealing the lack of value the top holds for him any longer.
Plain and simple: its not his totem. It never was. It never once states that it was. In fact, you're meant to start questioning it right from the point where he says it belonged to his wife, because the most important moments in which his totem make itself known happen after that point. He only ever wears his wedding ring during dream sequences, and even then you only SEE it at crucial plot points in the movie. It doesn't matter whether or not he's the only one alive who's touched the top because he's not using it to remind himself he's dreaming. We're meant to think so at first, admittedly, but never does a situation arise in which someone asks "hey, why are you spinning that" and he says "to see if I'm awake or not", because that's not the purpose it serves him. He's reminding himself of his guilt, of why he does what he does, to push forward and to be able to earn forgiveness for himself. When he leaves it behind at the end to go to his children, we clearly see it wobble before it cuts to black, and you don't need any kind of doctorate in any scientific field to know ITS GOING TO FALL. Its only tricking the eye, the intellect, of those who refuse to acknowledge this; the emotional weight the shot carries is meant to haunt more than anything, to represent that all it takes to break a man like Cobb was broken is one simple idea. But he beat the idea, beat his guilt, he made his way back home to his children, and earned his redemption, revealing the lack of value the top holds for him any longer.
That's a wall of text to argue a point that I've honestly stopped caring about... really, I don't care one way or another right now... just, to me, my viewpoint makes sense, and that's all I care about. Go ahead and believe what you want to believe; I'm not going to stop you. I just want you to know that you've failed to convince me of what you were trying to say.
Several things wrong here--
I'm not arguing a point or trying to convince you of anything. Its not a debate. Its "Inception: Explained" not "Inception: Theoreticized". Picking out subtle facts in a medium and trying to find a personal meaning in it are two completely different things. If you didn't want to understand FACTS better, you should never have tried listening when I said I was going to EXPLAIN something.
I never treated it as something I needed to change your mind about and never once invoked any manner of hostility. So this reaction is uncalled for.
This was never meant to involve you in the first place, I don't know who you are, you just kind of jumped in. Apologies, but I'm not going to stop talking about it just because you needed to try and turn something interesting to tell people into an argument.
And before you try to spin this and tell me I'm over-reacting or trying to troll or be a dick or what-have-you, let me remind you that it is you who is interrupting me when I still have much, much more to talk about on the subject in question, and nothing I had to say involved telling someone "I don't care what you have to say".
So if you want to save face here, a friendly bit of advice would be to not respond to this at all. There's no need whatsoever for it to go any more sour than it already has.
I'm not arguing a point or trying to convince you of anything. Its not a debate. Its "Inception: Explained" not "Inception: Theoreticized". Picking out subtle facts in a medium and trying to find a personal meaning in it are two completely different things. If you didn't want to understand FACTS better, you should never have tried listening when I said I was going to EXPLAIN something.
I never treated it as something I needed to change your mind about and never once invoked any manner of hostility. So this reaction is uncalled for.
This was never meant to involve you in the first place, I don't know who you are, you just kind of jumped in. Apologies, but I'm not going to stop talking about it just because you needed to try and turn something interesting to tell people into an argument.
And before you try to spin this and tell me I'm over-reacting or trying to troll or be a dick or what-have-you, let me remind you that it is you who is interrupting me when I still have much, much more to talk about on the subject in question, and nothing I had to say involved telling someone "I don't care what you have to say".
So if you want to save face here, a friendly bit of advice would be to not respond to this at all. There's no need whatsoever for it to go any more sour than it already has.
I never intended for it to go sour. Really, I did not. I was simply stating, with no malicious intent, that I currently didn't see any point in me listening to your arguments, and by arguments, I mean logical arguments. I just watch movies to have fun, and what I found as meaning within the movie is satisfying enough for me. By all means, continue talking about it, discuss it with other people, I'm just saying for me, it's done.
No ill will meant. Honestly.
No ill will meant. Honestly.
That's actually...pretty awesome. I've read a bit about the meaning behind it and stuff (particularly about the "was he still dreaming at the end" controversy) that coincides with a lot of what you're saying. Agreed he was NOT dreaming, but that's not the point...the point is that he stopped caring and was able to let go. Like you said, the point of the top was about him not being able to let go, not a mechanism to see if he was dreaming particularly.
I admit I thought the top was his totem though! And wondered about the inconsistencies of that. Even though I noticed his wedding ring in the dreams I didn't make that connection. REVELATION~ so that's awesome, thanks!
One thing I thought was weird was how worried they were about going into Limbo when all you had to do was kill yourself to come back. I mean I get that he and his wife made it their whole world and thusly didn't want to kill themselves, but they seemed really worried about going into limbo the whole time when they were setting up the heist. Um...big deal, they ended up getting out of it easily (the girl especially, she just jumped off the building)? Why did they care if limbo or not, if they could get out of it so easily? I don't really get that so if you have any insight on that, that would be cool lol
I HAVE SEEN THIS MOVIE TWICE AND I STILL DONT GET EVERYTHING DURR
I admit I thought the top was his totem though! And wondered about the inconsistencies of that. Even though I noticed his wedding ring in the dreams I didn't make that connection. REVELATION~ so that's awesome, thanks!
One thing I thought was weird was how worried they were about going into Limbo when all you had to do was kill yourself to come back. I mean I get that he and his wife made it their whole world and thusly didn't want to kill themselves, but they seemed really worried about going into limbo the whole time when they were setting up the heist. Um...big deal, they ended up getting out of it easily (the girl especially, she just jumped off the building)? Why did they care if limbo or not, if they could get out of it so easily? I don't really get that so if you have any insight on that, that would be cool lol
I HAVE SEEN THIS MOVIE TWICE AND I STILL DONT GET EVERYTHING DURR
Its funny how this seems to confuse so many people even though its one of the most explained plot points in the movie. Don't feel bad, it doesn't mean you're not smart enough to get it, it just means you need to pay more attention. <3
The sedative they used was extremely strong, enough to allow them to go 3 levels deep into the dreams without causing the dreams to collapse. To wake themselves up, they used the Edith Piaf song as a countdown to alert themselves when it was time for them to wake up, so they would have to use a synchronized kick on all 3 dream levels to bring them out as the song ended. If they died before the kick, when their minds acknowledged it was time to wake up, they would be trapped in limbo until another kick brought them out of it. Unfortunately, the song started too early while Yusuf was being shot at on the bridge of the first dream level, so they didn't have time to finish the job before the kick (when the van hit the bridge barrier). So they had to finish it before the second kick, when the van hit the water. Saito and Fischer died before the second kick, so Cobb and Ariadne had to go down into limbo to bring him back, and while Cobb was confronting Mal the kick on the 3rd level hit (the hospital-fortress being demolished), so Ariadne threw herself and Fischer off the building to simulate a kick of their own. This allowed them to wake up during the hospital's collapse, as well as when the elevator hit the top of the shaft, as well as when the van hit the water. Poof, back into dream level one, where the amount of time it took for the sedative keeping them under was drastically reduced.
The reason Cobb and Saito were able to wake themselves all the way back down in limbo is simple--they were there for so much time that the sedative had worn off by the time they shot themselves, a synchronized kick was unnecessary. The 50 years Saito had to live through in limbo translated to only a few minutes up in reality, but those few minutes were enough for the sedative to stop working.
The sedative they used was extremely strong, enough to allow them to go 3 levels deep into the dreams without causing the dreams to collapse. To wake themselves up, they used the Edith Piaf song as a countdown to alert themselves when it was time for them to wake up, so they would have to use a synchronized kick on all 3 dream levels to bring them out as the song ended. If they died before the kick, when their minds acknowledged it was time to wake up, they would be trapped in limbo until another kick brought them out of it. Unfortunately, the song started too early while Yusuf was being shot at on the bridge of the first dream level, so they didn't have time to finish the job before the kick (when the van hit the bridge barrier). So they had to finish it before the second kick, when the van hit the water. Saito and Fischer died before the second kick, so Cobb and Ariadne had to go down into limbo to bring him back, and while Cobb was confronting Mal the kick on the 3rd level hit (the hospital-fortress being demolished), so Ariadne threw herself and Fischer off the building to simulate a kick of their own. This allowed them to wake up during the hospital's collapse, as well as when the elevator hit the top of the shaft, as well as when the van hit the water. Poof, back into dream level one, where the amount of time it took for the sedative keeping them under was drastically reduced.
The reason Cobb and Saito were able to wake themselves all the way back down in limbo is simple--they were there for so much time that the sedative had worn off by the time they shot themselves, a synchronized kick was unnecessary. The 50 years Saito had to live through in limbo translated to only a few minutes up in reality, but those few minutes were enough for the sedative to stop working.
Ok I thiiiink I get it. I got the stuff about needing the kicks, just maybe not that the sedative had worn off and that's why they could escape. Iiiiii think I get it now. But given all that, couldn't Saito have just chucked himself off a building at any time even with a sedative to bring himself to the next level up, sedative or no (since the sedative leaves inner ear function unimpaired)? If you can simulate a kick like Ariadne and Fischer, why do you ever need to be worried about being stuck in a dream forevers? Why spend 50 years in limbo if you can simulate kicks to climb up the consecutive levels?
Simple--falling into limbo by dying, or without knowingly and willingly entering it, like Cobb and Ariadne, causes loss of distinction between dreams and reality. Same effect as entering limbo and being trapped there for too long, like what happened to Cobb and Mal back before she killed herself. When Cobb finally finds Saito, he's an old man living in luxury surrounded by guards--his recollection of reality and how he used to live bleeding over. He recreated the structure to house himself in, not knowing the strangeness of being able to do such a thing, because it felt real enough to him just like every other dream.
Its not a ripoff of either and if you go into it expecting it to be that's what you're gonna get. Chris Nolan started writing the script over a decade ago, the similarities are happenstance. Personally I feel its the greatest movie ever, only because Nolan is the biggest source of inspiration in my life for both my creativity and vocation, but I'd be lying if I said the movie was universally loved. If you appreciate his movies then you'll love it, that much is sure.
Sure they were.
Following
Memento
Insomnia
Batman Begins
The Prestige
The Dark Knight
And the forthcoming Dark Knight Returns.
As for the plot...well that's something best left unexplained until you dive in yourself. The most anyone knew before going, really, was that it had Leonardo DiCaprio and it took place in a period in which people were able to enter each others' dreams,
Following
Memento
Insomnia
Batman Begins
The Prestige
The Dark Knight
And the forthcoming Dark Knight Returns.
As for the plot...well that's something best left unexplained until you dive in yourself. The most anyone knew before going, really, was that it had Leonardo DiCaprio and it took place in a period in which people were able to enter each others' dreams,
Holy shit, are plaque-doctors actually all furries in disguise?!?
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wik.....r_character%29
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wik.....r_character%29
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