I think rubber bun made his point. By locking his emotions Josh became bitter and emotionless. Now, he can be a hero. But the way will be long and hard. Only with care and live Josh can break free of the chains. The chains he got, by wearing that latex prison

It still extremely funny to me that the heroes and villains are like 12 feet tall compared to normal civilians

Hahahahahaha

might be my size diff showing

Murder is justified in some cases

I agree with this in cases like self defence and the likes

D:

don't mind such wording - guy mistake 'murder' with 'killing'

That last panel of the grab is super amazing!

choke me daddy panel

Oh dear. It seems like Josh has been manipulated into thinking he's doing the wrong thing. D:

there's a lot of feelings there

Yah

...Hmmm. Now, isn't that fascinating. The symbiote couldn't stop him, but the sight of his friend could.

or maybe...it's a psychic, just saying it's possible

symbiote isn't controlling him once Frost assimilated it after all

Wow, increible intervencion del symbiote y de holt para evitar que josh cometa un grave error 😊😊

casi lo comete!

This is why my doods can never be Heroes™ - they couldn't be Villains™ either.

Just regular beasties going through the world.

...

who knows if they have powers

:D

Man, wish I were that guy snuggling Holt's pec

rubbery big pec

Seconds away from a Subzero reenactment.

Good thing there was a convenient recording to snap Josh back from his rage.

Josh may not be emotionally ready to be an ideal hero that Buns envisions.

I wonder what it says about Buns to use his new associate in that way without warning. Regardless how calculated the gamble is, the former crime boss likely suffered injury from choking and extreme cold.

If he believes his heroes and reformed villains will work together under him, this isn't a good look or start for the matter.

we should send him to rest

Not even symbiote can talk him out, except for Holt.

symbiote was trying hard, but frost was really out of his mind

Hightend empathy was not working. So if the persons empathy was low to begin with that feature does jack shit.

I think it was working, heightened empathy doesn’t stop you from feeling your emotions. Rage is still rage even if you can empathize. I don’t think it not mind control that forces you to stop, it’s more like additional considerations.

But empathy is also supposed to help see others in the position. At least in the panels above, Josh was more concern about getting even than understanding the Wolf Boss being made a pawn like himself by the symbiote.

And what snapped Josh out of it, wasn't the symbiote's words but the appearance of Holt.

In this scene, at least, the enhanced empathy either didn't help cool tensions or in your case, made it worse with mixed with rage.

Well yes, but at the end of the day, he still maintained free will. A person with free will can still choose to do bad, can still fall to control their rage, no matter how much empathy they may have
And unlike the guardians, he wasn't preconditioned.

True and I think it supports the skepticism that Josh had initially a few pages ago: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/55380737/

I would debate that Josh was conditioned in a different manner from the Guardians (a la, sexual stimulation in the earlier part of the comic, mixed with his mental battle with the symbiote. Something that would be similar to what Holt had experienced. What killed the " HL hero" with Holt, remains to be seen.)

There are others in Buns' compound who were likely not preconditioned like the Guardians but were given the symbiote to have an "empathy boost". But the goal of the empathy boost was to help Josh to freely make the decision. And if the panel montage in the last page shows how it looks in a more utopian perspective, this latest interaction would be the opposite. Thus, showing Buns there are flaws in his dependent use of the symbiote.

not really, empathy is not mind control, Josh could have instakilled the guy, but instead he's almost there, hesitating.
He wouldn't have gone throught it even without the lions intervention.

To be honest, the rage of being captured and turned into something you've been force to become would bubble over.

aye

it's ok buddy (hugs* it's gonna be alright you are a hero to people

e needs a break

yeah but i'll be here for him

Empathy how you can tell a hero from a villian

still, he had a moment of weakness there

Everyone can have a moment of weakness it's what they do with that moment that I think defines which path you take.

Pussy. You can be a hero and get your hands dirty -_-

Yeah I'm a bad person. I accept it *grumpy tired bat flops*

Yeah that "heroes dont kill" bs always bothers me. A true hero should know WHEN to kill. Some people are simply not gonna redeem themselves and the world is better off without them rather then letting them sit in a time-out corner untill they escape and wreak havoc again, claiming countless lives in the process.

Yep. Give everyone a chance for redemption, kiil the ones that do not. Simple solution really. That's why I always prefer anti heros. They get shit done.

The perfect scene. I love the way Josh fights his inner demon, and that makes him a very strong character.

once he heals will be stronger!

I just realized my priorities, as I was sad that a life was saved just because that's what the symbiote drone is in favor of! XD

awwwww

Me and this comic is a love-hate situation... But the story is too good for me to stop following! XD
...
I'm not a hater, just someone who really hates ID/BW/MC and is still here at every release to cheer for the good of our favorite couple, 'cause they're cute and the story is good! XD

So the symbiote didn't work. It has some influence, but not control. Josh stopped himself. He seems different from the others. Is it a strong will, his experiences being so different, or a different symbiote than the ones the drones have? Also, what exactly was Buns' game here? He took a huge risk. Is he that arrogant, or was there a failsafe? Or will he attribute Josh's decision to the symbiote? This is very juicy territory.

I think the video of holt was the failsafe, wich would still make buns arrogant taking a huge gamble like that

oh the symbiote wouldn't have allowed a kill, both were struggling there on oposite forces.
The lions appearance was more impactful than anything.

He became exactly what his system desired of him. A machine to end troubles. As far as we have seen, they really incentivize not thinking of criminals as people, just problems to put down. Perhaps the symbiote being so empathethic can act as a counterbalance to that. Though what plans are in place by all the big movers remain to be seen, our dear bear in particular is going to really put everyone to the test for sure.

Careful Josh. Don’t go down the injustice route

almost did

I was almost expecting him to go... "... harder daddy"

he internally said that

Revenge is a poison that can turn us into something ugly. Josh was about do the unthinkable, the 02 symbiote's voice tried to convince him to stop but it was Holt that convinced him the most. Seeing Holt on TV surrounded by citizens who he dedicated his services to reminded Josh what he wanted to be, a hero. That's right Josh you are a hero not a murderer don't let someone else's deeds put you on the wrong path. The wolf boss is the fall guy for Bulwark. It's time to move on and forget about the past. Hopefully this will be the closure that Josh needs to finally move on from the pain he endured in the past. Nicely done Rubberbuns. We can always rely on our true friends to remind us who we are when we lose our way. I guess everything was fine until this point for 02 to talk to Josh again. Josh was so angry and wanted to hurt the wolf boss so bad he even used his powers. I can see the frost on the wolf's neck. Now that Josh realize his revenge would have turn him into the thing that he swore to fight against and protect the citizens from will he be able finally move forward? I can't wait to see what will happen next. Keep up the good work. 👍

As James Bond said in the movie "For Your Eyes Only": When you seek revenge, first dig two graves. (not an exact quote but close enough for meaning).

I think Josh was about ready to fill both graves with his enemy and his own humanity.

Oh my goodness, the look in Josh's eyes is so priceless! It could be the symbiote messing with his head, but I would like to think that he had a sudden realization of what the League made him into: a robotic uncaring machine. I want to hug him so badly!

I really hope this is not just another screw for Buns to twist and that it is Josh and his symbiote coming to an agreement with regards to revenge.

Another terrific page! Stay safe and keep up the fantastic work!

...So Buns plans a scenario that pushes Holt to the edge where he'll come as close to murder as possible, FEELING the symbiote holding him back, and then see his former angry rival/current lover happy and embraced by the public, reinforcing literally everything that Buns has said is wrong about heroes and everything right with his own (proposed) world view.
Temporal powers are DAMN powerful.

Eh I'd say that's good enough. I'm too sadistic to kill

I just realized something:

All of this is just a lie.

Buns' talk about making the city safe by manipulating others and forcing them to obey his wishes is nothing more than a manipulator twisting others to fit his own idealized world. He does have a good point about the role of heroes, but fundamentally all he is making is a world where they are simply puppets that are dancing to the tune in which he sees as being correct, which is very ironic, because in looking at the system he has created, he's left it open to a simple vulnerability.

That of someone with a high functioning sociopathic nature to manipulate heroes into surrendering themselves and their principles to save others, which is exactly what happened to Josh at the beginning of this story. I know that some of you may have forgotten, but what happened to Josh was that he had to surrender himself to other villains in order to save his at-then girlfriend, this led to him basically being helpless and then being humiliated, I think there was a strong case for him possibly being raped but its not 100% clear, but either way, after the deed was done the girlfriend left the hero league and Josh went through PTSD to the point where he shut down mentally and emotionally.

So ironically enough, Buns' entire story has now come full circle:

https://www.furaffinity.net/view/26152097
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/26227535/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/26325245/

Josh is once again in a situation where he's powerless to do anything being someone else is being used against him and for the sake of their safety/happiness he has to put himself in a subservient position despite want to fight.

I've came to terms that everybody is going to have their own interpretations, based on their life experiences, and they are valid too.

This was certainly another big wake-up call for Frostbite, in a story where he's already had quite a few of them. Josh has been bottling up a lot of pain, rage, and resentfulness over the way his life has turned out for quite some time now, and he has a vengeful side to him too. This is now the second time that he's come dangerously close to becoming a murderer because he lashed out at someone in anger, and that should worry him. Josh needs to confront this side of himself if he wants to avoid going down a dark path, and hopefully he'll come out of this experience as a better hero.

It should also be interesting to see what Josh's interactions with this wolf mob boss character will be like going forward, now that he's gotten to take his revenge on him and found that it didn't feel as good as he thought it was going to. Josh will, quite understandably, still hate his guts, but he won't want to kill him on sight anymore.

'hulk'ing overdun in panel 4, yes.. even if hot

damn the choke and slowly freezing him is still a very powerful image in this