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Story / Animal related (non-anthro)
Species Wolf
Size 120 x 81
File Size 8.4 kB
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More from ZizixZXC
So.
This is just the prologue of a story I'm writing, and I'd love some feedback.
To sum it up, the story as a whole is about a loner stray, a wolf-dog, who's just trying to find his place in the world. He can't fit in with the stray dog packs of Vladamir, because he's far too 'wolfish', but he as well cant join the wild wolf, because he is afraid to leave the confinements of his every day life.
It's an abstract attempt at recreating the world from a dogs point of view.
Please, enjoy... oh, and every bit of criticism helps, so if you drop by, don't forget to leave a comment!
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
This is just the prologue of a story I'm writing, and I'd love some feedback.
To sum it up, the story as a whole is about a loner stray, a wolf-dog, who's just trying to find his place in the world. He can't fit in with the stray dog packs of Vladamir, because he's far too 'wolfish', but he as well cant join the wild wolf, because he is afraid to leave the confinements of his every day life.
It's an abstract attempt at recreating the world from a dogs point of view.
Please, enjoy... oh, and every bit of criticism helps, so if you drop by, don't forget to leave a comment!
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
Category Story / Animal related (non-anthro)
Species Wolf
Size 120 x 81px
File Size 8.4 kB
I love this...it's so emotional and it speaks to me of a forbidden love and passion with true emotion. I can feel the feelings as i read this and the turmoil the family share in their harsh world that eclipses their lives. And the thoughts that race into my mind...like when Kazimer tells of the tale of the human child brought up amongst wolves, could he have been a hybrid of wolf and human (intriguing design in your words) also could Kazimer be one of these wolves that grew up with said farmer and knew him or perhaps Kazimer perhaps has lycan attributes...and also with the human perking his ears up (could that mean that he could possibly be a lycan too, after all his pack could have been...that was never truly shared) so many ideas and interesting plots can unfold from this I mean it's very good and I would love to here more of this... I love the name 'Stray' could that have a unique hidden meaning...stray wolf since a lycan isn't a true wolf and usually has no pack ;)
These are just some thoughts nothing more my furiend...if you find ideas that you like use them I love to share thoughts that come to mind ;)
*Howls in proud respect* This is a great Prologue and bound to match that of a great story my furiend...I will definitely be watching for this story's full release...you made yourself shine tonight hun...
These are just some thoughts nothing more my furiend...if you find ideas that you like use them I love to share thoughts that come to mind ;)
*Howls in proud respect* This is a great Prologue and bound to match that of a great story my furiend...I will definitely be watching for this story's full release...you made yourself shine tonight hun...
And that, my dear,
is the uniqueness of the unknown, and the power of suspense (What will really happen... how is it all going to turn out?).
Stay tuned and all you're questions will be answered.
Your professionally lengthy and heartfelt comment surly did not fall on def ears!
Again, thank you, and the next part is well on it's way.
Till then...
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
is the uniqueness of the unknown, and the power of suspense (What will really happen... how is it all going to turn out?).
Stay tuned and all you're questions will be answered.
Your professionally lengthy and heartfelt comment surly did not fall on def ears!
Again, thank you, and the next part is well on it's way.
Till then...
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
anytime my dear, and I will be keeping my canine eyes on you *winks* I think your work is brilliant and it's gonna be marvelous to read, can't wait hun...the suspense is making me pass out slowly... *breathes deep* I so want to read more And yes it touched me heartwise, I got so much feeling from your prologue. I can't wait to see where this begins and ends up taking me and the other readers...
You write very well and have an excellent balanced style. Some more character description and enviroment description may help the work come to life a bit more. The rhetoric of the work though is in question for the Nagel Fallacy of anthropomorphism, a crude form of romantic primitivism, and the very common archetypes of duality usually of which constitute a weak rhetorical presentation.
When one builds a world involving anthropomorphism the limits of that anthropomorphism need to be defined or else holes are bound to follow. The Nagel Fallacy of anthropomorphism states that we don’t know what it is for the bat to be the bat. Basically it is the problem with all anthropomorphism in which the development of anthropomorphic characters need to maintain both a connection to their human audience along with their own inhuman traits. In this story the concern comes from the wolfs/dog bias of humanity and the understanding of the farmer in the event. From a cultural perspective the development of a man raised by wolves into become a farmer seems greatly preposterous.
From the plot sociological aspects of wolf packs seem in question where some exploring and research should be considered. Often it is an example of one or the other and non cultural adultery is a very big deal of course. Still, the entire story sits on this concept which destroys a sense of gestalt worldly function and in turn destroys both possibilities.
The common archetype of a protagonist having to decide between worlds is very common and thus more difficult to produce a good presentation with. In anthropomorphic works involving mixed blood this is even more so. In this the duality of romantic primitivism sets in both worldly concepts which in relationship to an audience is questionable in logic and ethics. It comes down to a question of why the audience cares. A protagonist is the connector for the audience and the work. In such if it all rests wholly on a decision of self that more should be at stake perhaps.
If not the case these works often have a limited set of outcomes involving acceptance of others or self, or a failure to meet the hierarchy of needs. In this the rhetorical purpose is very weak.
This is all a lot to consider for the sake of the story. As carefully consideration and building of its elements, along with a lot of imagination can produce a beautiful thing supported by your talent as a writer.
I mean no offence by my observations shaped by my opinion, frame of reference, and enculturation.
When one builds a world involving anthropomorphism the limits of that anthropomorphism need to be defined or else holes are bound to follow. The Nagel Fallacy of anthropomorphism states that we don’t know what it is for the bat to be the bat. Basically it is the problem with all anthropomorphism in which the development of anthropomorphic characters need to maintain both a connection to their human audience along with their own inhuman traits. In this story the concern comes from the wolfs/dog bias of humanity and the understanding of the farmer in the event. From a cultural perspective the development of a man raised by wolves into become a farmer seems greatly preposterous.
From the plot sociological aspects of wolf packs seem in question where some exploring and research should be considered. Often it is an example of one or the other and non cultural adultery is a very big deal of course. Still, the entire story sits on this concept which destroys a sense of gestalt worldly function and in turn destroys both possibilities.
The common archetype of a protagonist having to decide between worlds is very common and thus more difficult to produce a good presentation with. In anthropomorphic works involving mixed blood this is even more so. In this the duality of romantic primitivism sets in both worldly concepts which in relationship to an audience is questionable in logic and ethics. It comes down to a question of why the audience cares. A protagonist is the connector for the audience and the work. In such if it all rests wholly on a decision of self that more should be at stake perhaps.
If not the case these works often have a limited set of outcomes involving acceptance of others or self, or a failure to meet the hierarchy of needs. In this the rhetorical purpose is very weak.
This is all a lot to consider for the sake of the story. As carefully consideration and building of its elements, along with a lot of imagination can produce a beautiful thing supported by your talent as a writer.
I mean no offence by my observations shaped by my opinion, frame of reference, and enculturation.
Wow!
A very long comment with a heck of a lot of big words!
But you know, you do have a point.
You see, this book is actually not about Anthro, more so Feral, and the farmer, for now, is just going to be a filler, which will in turn, help develop the plot.
I have written Anthro in the past (mostly Yiff though), so I understand your argument, or feedback, in the comment above.
As well, the farmer, is in fact, human, not Anthro.
It will all become clearer as the first chapter (part one) will be released... so I'd love you to comment again on that piece (For the first chapter is so very crucial).
If I read correctly, you were explaining that it would be next to impossible for an infant to be raised by wolves?
If this is the case, there is actual recorded events of this happening in real life... something about natural instinct, and a caring she-wolf (oh, and I forgot to add that he is no longer being raised by wolves... If he was, I would of made a point of it).
Just Google it, and I'm sure you'll come up with something.
I thank you for your feedback!
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
A very long comment with a heck of a lot of big words!
But you know, you do have a point.
You see, this book is actually not about Anthro, more so Feral, and the farmer, for now, is just going to be a filler, which will in turn, help develop the plot.
I have written Anthro in the past (mostly Yiff though), so I understand your argument, or feedback, in the comment above.
As well, the farmer, is in fact, human, not Anthro.
It will all become clearer as the first chapter (part one) will be released... so I'd love you to comment again on that piece (For the first chapter is so very crucial).
If I read correctly, you were explaining that it would be next to impossible for an infant to be raised by wolves?
If this is the case, there is actual recorded events of this happening in real life... something about natural instinct, and a caring she-wolf (oh, and I forgot to add that he is no longer being raised by wolves... If he was, I would of made a point of it).
Just Google it, and I'm sure you'll come up with something.
I thank you for your feedback!
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
Anthropomorphism in definition defines and constitutes feral stories as well at least in this case.
You did not read correctly. I am quite aware of such cases as they are a subject of my area of study. Such cases are possible , however proper development of the frontal cerebral neural cortex in all these cases is not. Such a case becoming a farmer is an absurdity even with later human intervention.
Where filler is considered, the plot often builds itself, and it is often debated that filler destroys the plot that could be.
You did not read correctly. I am quite aware of such cases as they are a subject of my area of study. Such cases are possible , however proper development of the frontal cerebral neural cortex in all these cases is not. Such a case becoming a farmer is an absurdity even with later human intervention.
Where filler is considered, the plot often builds itself, and it is often debated that filler destroys the plot that could be.
Does it?
Well, if that be the case, then so be it... I had no clue that anthropomorphism related not only to its namesake 'Anthro', but as well to feral characters (Isn't an Anthro character, just short for anthropomorphism?)!
So, with that misunderstanding aside, we're now focusing on how my novels prologue is inaccurate on the case that it is improbable for an individual, raised by wolves, to develop enough of a human mindset, even with/after human intervention, to become a farmer?
Please, how would you of explained the farmer, if you were to be writing this?
Again, thank you for your time...
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
PS: We must remember though, that this is only the prologue, and as the chapters progress, clarity will arise on some debatable topics.
Well, if that be the case, then so be it... I had no clue that anthropomorphism related not only to its namesake 'Anthro', but as well to feral characters (Isn't an Anthro character, just short for anthropomorphism?)!
So, with that misunderstanding aside, we're now focusing on how my novels prologue is inaccurate on the case that it is improbable for an individual, raised by wolves, to develop enough of a human mindset, even with/after human intervention, to become a farmer?
Please, how would you of explained the farmer, if you were to be writing this?
Again, thank you for your time...
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
PS: We must remember though, that this is only the prologue, and as the chapters progress, clarity will arise on some debatable topics.
Anthro is a fandom slang term for anthropomorphic character. Anthropomorphism is defined as attribution of human characteristics to nonhumans. Anything from animism, to the talking animals of Richard Adams, to the Feral Works of Jack London, to the funny animal cartoons most are familiar with, to the philosophical works of Moreau, Turning, and Tolberti, ect.
My answers are limited, you must ask better questions. The variables of such question are voided. I would not write this do the purpose of the rhetorical triangle being poor to begin with.
Probably change the plot and characterization focusing on more important values. The feral approach would be dropped more a more compounded sentient humanoid to address better to the audience. Via racial, blood, nationality, or culture, I could than easily create that look of difference to a farmer accepting the exiled orphan.
The key here is not addressing the work’s rhetoric to me, but in this case to yourself. I will be frank I am not your audience. This is a look into the rhetorical triangle of your work so you can take a step back and decide upon things and see if they make sense, are workable, and achieve the rhetorical purpose you wish to share with your audience. The question is what you are doing, why you are doing it, and what you are doing it for.
There is no we here, it is only you, your text, and your audience along with the logic, emotion, and ethics of the presentation. Leave the I out of it. I am quite aware of that fact that it is a prologue and it will progress. Jokingly it wouldn’t be much of a story if that was the case would it. The beginning though is one of the most important parts of the work and is the foundation upon the rests builds. Pulling weeds when the flower is a seed will allow the plant to grow.
My answers are limited, you must ask better questions. The variables of such question are voided. I would not write this do the purpose of the rhetorical triangle being poor to begin with.
Probably change the plot and characterization focusing on more important values. The feral approach would be dropped more a more compounded sentient humanoid to address better to the audience. Via racial, blood, nationality, or culture, I could than easily create that look of difference to a farmer accepting the exiled orphan.
The key here is not addressing the work’s rhetoric to me, but in this case to yourself. I will be frank I am not your audience. This is a look into the rhetorical triangle of your work so you can take a step back and decide upon things and see if they make sense, are workable, and achieve the rhetorical purpose you wish to share with your audience. The question is what you are doing, why you are doing it, and what you are doing it for.
There is no we here, it is only you, your text, and your audience along with the logic, emotion, and ethics of the presentation. Leave the I out of it. I am quite aware of that fact that it is a prologue and it will progress. Jokingly it wouldn’t be much of a story if that was the case would it. The beginning though is one of the most important parts of the work and is the foundation upon the rests builds. Pulling weeds when the flower is a seed will allow the plant to grow.
So if i'm correct,
You'd like me to treat you as a critique, who is not part of my audience, who drops by at intervals to give me a rhetoric question?
If this is the case, I'll stop defending myself, and take your words to heart, develop them there and then use them as I will in future development of my plot and story.
As for your point on the urgency of defining the farmer to be actually human, not Anthro (I think it's safe to say that individuals in the community here will automatically think someone like the farmer is Anthro... due to the mindset provoked on this sight), you are absolutely right.
In future pieces, if I have another human character to act as the filler or a side character, I will make sure to define him/her as 100% human.
Do you suggest that I make it clearer in the caption of my submission that this is in fact, not, an Anthro story?
Your feedback is appreciated.
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
You'd like me to treat you as a critique, who is not part of my audience, who drops by at intervals to give me a rhetoric question?
If this is the case, I'll stop defending myself, and take your words to heart, develop them there and then use them as I will in future development of my plot and story.
As for your point on the urgency of defining the farmer to be actually human, not Anthro (I think it's safe to say that individuals in the community here will automatically think someone like the farmer is Anthro... due to the mindset provoked on this sight), you are absolutely right.
In future pieces, if I have another human character to act as the filler or a side character, I will make sure to define him/her as 100% human.
Do you suggest that I make it clearer in the caption of my submission that this is in fact, not, an Anthro story?
Your feedback is appreciated.
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
Pretty much though more just questions for you to think on. Rhetoric is defined as the art of speaking and writing well. As a rhetorical question is a formal question not expected an answer. Responses are essential in communication and helps show me you are getting something out of the critique that you have asked for. However, if you are to take my words to heart take them also with a galleon of salt as well.
You are the author, you are in control of the work, no one else.
I made no point of urgency to defining the farmer to be actually human. That choice is up to you. If you describe him as a human than audience should know that he is human. If he is human and you keep the plot the same there is a problem in the logic of him being raised by wolves. Those cases in the latter had neurological, psychological, and physical problems that stopped them from adapting to normal human social life.
Changing the concept a bit can still make this work out such as having the wolves/dogs anthropomorphic humanoid races. In which the farmer can be anything that fit’s the scheme.
To the definition of anthropomorphism it is an anthropomorphic story. You would have to not tell the work from the wolves point of view to make it truly a non anthropomorphic story. If however, you would like people to realize that the wolves in your story do not have the ability to speak human languages, are not bipedal, ect, and believe they will be confused than put this is a feral animal story. Though feral in the fandom slang also constitutes nude more brutish animalism creatures. As long as you build good rhetoric the audience should not be confused.
You are the author, you are in control of the work, no one else.
I made no point of urgency to defining the farmer to be actually human. That choice is up to you. If you describe him as a human than audience should know that he is human. If he is human and you keep the plot the same there is a problem in the logic of him being raised by wolves. Those cases in the latter had neurological, psychological, and physical problems that stopped them from adapting to normal human social life.
Changing the concept a bit can still make this work out such as having the wolves/dogs anthropomorphic humanoid races. In which the farmer can be anything that fit’s the scheme.
To the definition of anthropomorphism it is an anthropomorphic story. You would have to not tell the work from the wolves point of view to make it truly a non anthropomorphic story. If however, you would like people to realize that the wolves in your story do not have the ability to speak human languages, are not bipedal, ect, and believe they will be confused than put this is a feral animal story. Though feral in the fandom slang also constitutes nude more brutish animalism creatures. As long as you build good rhetoric the audience should not be confused.
I feel the same as prowl....
3 stories, 3 really good stories started but never finished.
Please Ziz, please go on with this story. As prowl said, the story that comes off from this has so many possibilities.
I loved this prologue, explianed the situation, characters, leaving room for whatever you want to write next.
I want you to continue this story, I know you're doing that progressive writing but.
It would make me so happy to see you finally finish a story Zizix.
Don't make this dog beg, cause he's really good at it.
3 stories, 3 really good stories started but never finished.
Please Ziz, please go on with this story. As prowl said, the story that comes off from this has so many possibilities.
I loved this prologue, explianed the situation, characters, leaving room for whatever you want to write next.
I want you to continue this story, I know you're doing that progressive writing but.
It would make me so happy to see you finally finish a story Zizix.
Don't make this dog beg, cause he's really good at it.
*laughs*
Yep, I got that pun at the end!
I was going to bring up that whole progressive writing deal, but you beat me to it. I'd love to say that this will be the one... but who knows, and if I promised you that this in fact were, I most probably would not finish it (Ya, thats just how I work).
Have faith, and we'll all see how this turns out, eh?
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
Yep, I got that pun at the end!
I was going to bring up that whole progressive writing deal, but you beat me to it. I'd love to say that this will be the one... but who knows, and if I promised you that this in fact were, I most probably would not finish it (Ya, thats just how I work).
Have faith, and we'll all see how this turns out, eh?
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
Pretty decent. Some awkward sentence structure here and there, but not bad at all. The first section might benefit from some more description of the setting.
It's hard to say much about the plot from just a prologue, but things I would be expecting from the rest of the story might include more details of how the father knew the human farmer, and a later return of the mother and possibly father, at an inopportune time or in an otherwise estranged manner.
In the second section the emotional content of the mother giving up her pup was well and strongly done.
Now on to read chapter 1... ^.^
It's hard to say much about the plot from just a prologue, but things I would be expecting from the rest of the story might include more details of how the father knew the human farmer, and a later return of the mother and possibly father, at an inopportune time or in an otherwise estranged manner.
In the second section the emotional content of the mother giving up her pup was well and strongly done.
Now on to read chapter 1... ^.^
I'm not much for ferals, so this will no doubt be a colored critique. And you brought down a college-level writer whom is almost a teacher himself, on your story. I am not certain if I am supposed to critique this based on story alone, or include format/spelling/etc. So, I will do all of them. Let's see now...
*glasses*
Your formatting is terrible. Entire paragraphs are composed of one line of dialogue, or singular sentences. Now and then authors can get away with single-line paragraphs for dramatic effect, but not this often. They're not standing perfectly still talking to one another, the opening dialogue between them needs to be colored with actions, movements, facial expressions, weather patterns, sounds, smells, something. Atop this, the smooshed-up spacing makes it all run together. When working with sites like FA, its important to put one blank line between paragraphs to aesthetically(sp?) assure the reader that the last paragraph is done and that a new one is starting.
Your captialization and comma placement is questionable as well. You may need to print this out and have a second pair of eyes look it over for surface mistakes. In its current state it looks as though it were typed up, saved, and then directly submitted to FA with no editation or surface work.
I'm an OWL, and I can smell the anime dripping from this story. The forced, overbearing dialogue goes back and forth with some of the clunkiest words I've seen in a long time. So much so that they sound like a bad translation from something else. Most of what was said could've been written in words OUTSIDE the dialogue, and the wolves could've said next to nothing. However, speaking is important to assure the reader of their sentience, so some of it can slide. But not a lot of it.
Now, CONTENT-wise the story is deep and interesting. Taking the heavy dialogue-driven bits in stride you've set up a world based on rules and pack-mentality ethics. Just make sure you do your research when you are tossing around words like "omega" (yes, I noticed. I was once a Wox) and such. Your syntax tells me you're either aiming for "english" or "southern states america". Words like "come on" appearing as "camon" would only make sense of the person had an english accent, and "young'un" comes from the southern states of the US. Very conflicting styles, in a relatively small space. You might be neither, but the voice of your story must be both decisive and consistant. Leaping from one CONTINENT to another jars the reader.
I understand that this is a prologue and thusly not meant to be long and complicated, but it feels like forced exposition. Have a second pair of eyes look at it, and check your formatting. There's a gem in there somewhere, it just needs cutting.
~Azzy
*glasses*
Your formatting is terrible. Entire paragraphs are composed of one line of dialogue, or singular sentences. Now and then authors can get away with single-line paragraphs for dramatic effect, but not this often. They're not standing perfectly still talking to one another, the opening dialogue between them needs to be colored with actions, movements, facial expressions, weather patterns, sounds, smells, something. Atop this, the smooshed-up spacing makes it all run together. When working with sites like FA, its important to put one blank line between paragraphs to aesthetically(sp?) assure the reader that the last paragraph is done and that a new one is starting.
Your captialization and comma placement is questionable as well. You may need to print this out and have a second pair of eyes look it over for surface mistakes. In its current state it looks as though it were typed up, saved, and then directly submitted to FA with no editation or surface work.
I'm an OWL, and I can smell the anime dripping from this story. The forced, overbearing dialogue goes back and forth with some of the clunkiest words I've seen in a long time. So much so that they sound like a bad translation from something else. Most of what was said could've been written in words OUTSIDE the dialogue, and the wolves could've said next to nothing. However, speaking is important to assure the reader of their sentience, so some of it can slide. But not a lot of it.
Now, CONTENT-wise the story is deep and interesting. Taking the heavy dialogue-driven bits in stride you've set up a world based on rules and pack-mentality ethics. Just make sure you do your research when you are tossing around words like "omega" (yes, I noticed. I was once a Wox) and such. Your syntax tells me you're either aiming for "english" or "southern states america". Words like "come on" appearing as "camon" would only make sense of the person had an english accent, and "young'un" comes from the southern states of the US. Very conflicting styles, in a relatively small space. You might be neither, but the voice of your story must be both decisive and consistant. Leaping from one CONTINENT to another jars the reader.
I understand that this is a prologue and thusly not meant to be long and complicated, but it feels like forced exposition. Have a second pair of eyes look at it, and check your formatting. There's a gem in there somewhere, it just needs cutting.
~Azzy
Wow!
this was 1000X more then I suspected... you sir, are a realist, and I like that... Rainstar choose well (hell, I'd be scared even submitting a story with your critical view).
Now, let me tell you, I took absolutely no offence after reading this, actually, it was really enlightening (though, to admit it, I'm kind of afraid of what you'll leave on my next submission)!
Now, down to business.
So, I'm going to write a small list down, that sums up what you told me in your comment above, and you tell me if I'm following:
-Make it clear that a new paragraph is beginning, by adding an extra space line between that, and the new one
-Add more actions, which will intern, help give some extra coloring to the lines when one of the characters are speaking
-Find a proofreader (Which for now, I guess, will be done by myself), to help with general punctuation
-Make my dialog more fluent by adding some creative and authentic wording, to avoid, as you put it, the 'Clunkyness' of the dialog
-Look over the authenticity of the actual wording (I'm aiming for Russian, and in the next chapter, your judgment on that authenticity will be critical)
All in all, thank you for your time, and your feedback... I have a feeling that this will really help to develop my own writing.
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
this was 1000X more then I suspected... you sir, are a realist, and I like that... Rainstar choose well (hell, I'd be scared even submitting a story with your critical view).
Now, let me tell you, I took absolutely no offence after reading this, actually, it was really enlightening (though, to admit it, I'm kind of afraid of what you'll leave on my next submission)!
Now, down to business.
So, I'm going to write a small list down, that sums up what you told me in your comment above, and you tell me if I'm following:
-Make it clear that a new paragraph is beginning, by adding an extra space line between that, and the new one
-Add more actions, which will intern, help give some extra coloring to the lines when one of the characters are speaking
-Find a proofreader (Which for now, I guess, will be done by myself), to help with general punctuation
-Make my dialog more fluent by adding some creative and authentic wording, to avoid, as you put it, the 'Clunkyness' of the dialog
-Look over the authenticity of the actual wording (I'm aiming for Russian, and in the next chapter, your judgment on that authenticity will be critical)
All in all, thank you for your time, and your feedback... I have a feeling that this will really help to develop my own writing.
'We're all animals in the end',
ZXC
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