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Book Mock-Ups | "Perfect" characters
Sometimes a client approaches me to work together on a character, only to resist any meaty discussion about their character's flaws. That's what I want to talk about this month.
It's pretty standard to say that characters without flaws are boring, but that's not the whole story. What is it about a person who wants a flawless character? What do they want from this fantasy? As I've said before, this is an example of me working on a meta level, more with the person behind the character than that person may realise. That in itself can be problematic if they're trying to project perfection: anxious perfectionists don't enjoy scrutiny.
Flaws can come in a few forms, and not all flaws can really be described as a character's (or person's) fault. The way I work involves a full appraisal of a character, including discussions about how they handled the 'standard' traumas in their lives, which we all experience: the rage of discovering you can't do whatever you want as a toddler, which makes you dissatisfied enough with your parents that you put lots of energy into becoming your own person, or the various emotional pains we go through as teenagers, that often underline all sorts of self-development goals. These experiences often involve us making mistakes, and the characters we design are likely to be no different. The alternative is a character who's born perfect and never changes.
Furthermore, real people and fictional characters alike are prone to learning broken Aesops as a result of their traumas: perhaps they learn "I can't trust anybody" or "I'm worthless" or "it doesn't matter if I hurt other people, so long as I get what I want". We don't all learn our lessons well, and realistically, neither would the characters we make.
I've got a few examples in my back-catalogue of 'perfect' characters: some complete but most imcomplete. There was Adelaide, who I mentioned when I discussed Luca earlier this year. Adelaide's commissioner assured me that everybody in-universe was genuinely amazed by Adelaide's brilliance. That raised a question for me: were people outside of Adelaide's universe meant to be just as impressed, or was she conceived with the awareness that some real-life folk may not be so enchanted, because nobody can be everyone's idea of perfect? I never got to know because Adelaide's creator never contacted me again after I asked that question.
There was also Sinoe (name changed for anonymity), a dragon god who everybody liked, according to his creator. He presented an interesting twist: power. I talked a few months ago about the symbolism of dragons, and one of those symbols is power. I'd already worked a while with Sinoe's creator before and knew he was very eager to make more friends, to the point that he stymied his own creative project by trying to make sure it catered to absolutely everybody who took even the most cursory interest in it. When the project failed, he became depressed and gave his project to somebody else before going quiet, except to ask me to help him make this character.
What made Sinoe interesting even as a 'perfect' character was his combination of power and likeability. These two traits can be difficult bedfellows because friendship tends to thrive under equality or equity, but is threatened if there's a noticeable power imbalance. That's not always the case, but Sinoe's creator wanted Sinoe to be particularly powerful: not just a mere dragon, but a dragon god. He assured me that all of Sinoe's people loved him, I asked if that could really be the case since there will always be people who don't love the powerful figures in their lives: people tend to get a bit funny around the person who holds the power. He replied that "everyone likes Sinoe and anyone who doesn't, doesn't matter lol". So that was the end of that.
Despite their awkwardness together, perfection and power are a fairly common match. In addition to Sinoe, I worked on Duke, who was a foster parent who took on abused children and acted as the perfect parent to them. That aspect made him interesting, but it meant that when his creator asked me to help him explore Duke's character by writing a No Frills about him, he stalled whenever I tried to explore the rocky journey Duke made to becoming somebody strong and dedicated enough to take on a gaggle of foster kids. That's not the sort of thing people do if they've spent their lives living an easy life with no challenges to their morals or skill-set. Somewhere in the middle of the powerless-to-powerful continuum was Mallory, who grew up in a dystopian world but who was, and I quote, "nicer than everyone else". Somehow he managed to live, even thrive, in a dingy and poorly resourced police-state... but then experienced a turning point in his story when he spontaneously developed super-powers. Mallory's creator wanted him to start of with a specific set of powers but warned me to be open to him developing more, as the story he was writing demanded it. In addition, he instructed me that all of Mallory's traumas up to this time were 'cured' by the onset of his powers, so that he acted as a completely non-traumatised individual. I pointed out that this would be dangerous for a character who lived in such a broken world - it made sense for a person to be secretive, good at lying, and jumpy, with so many overly aggressive police around, and in a culture where people were so prepared to treat one another poorly - to rob or steal from or threaten one another that it would undoubtedly happen again. Mallory simply wouldn't be built to survive in such a world any more. His creator gave up on trying to develop Mallory's character with me and went silent on this point of Mallory's development.
Then there was Rayleigh. Ray's creator insisted that Ray was special, so much so that he vastly academically outcompeted his classmates by the age of three and had to be homeschooled. Nevertheless, he presented his parents with no difficulties (or at least, none that his creator was prepared to discuss), and when he became an adolescent and started taking an interest in members of the opposite sex, his creator insisted that most of the girls Ray liked were too shallow for him. He wasn't prepared to explore that idea that his isolation from his peers for 10 or more years might have played a part on his difficulty connecting with others, although I felt sure what would be a problem here. Then, at age 18, Ray was abducted by aliens and transformed to become the ultimate military weapon - not just into a super-soldier who was made immortal and would forever have the physique of a super-fit 18 year old, but also a genius polymath. His brain was programmed to contain the academic knowledge on Earth and beyond. I worked with this, but believed that Ray would likely find offering this knowledge to others incredibly frustrating because he looked far too young to have plausibly learned most of what he knew, and would therefore struggle to be listened to by the right people to make a big difference. It looked to me like Ray would come off as an arrogant know-it-all and would be disregarded in-universe as such. His creator wouldn't hear of this, and insisted that everybody would respect and listen to Ray.
Perfect characters or not, it remains my job to avoid romanticising these characters as much as possible. That includes acknowledging flaws without treating them as ridiculous. It can involve recognising that even if we aim for perfection, the journey to it will involve mistakes and flawed behaviour, thoughts, or feelings. Yet, I can only do so much of this work of accepting these flaws: if my client doesn't want to accept them, then the work of developing their character is either arrested, or becomes a subject of conflict between me and my client. I don't like arguing with my clients but I would rather keep my standards up than avoid conflict for the sake of a peaceful life.
Ironically, one character who seemed almost perfect and who I was able to complete was Karabela; Karabela's creator asked me for an infographic, and this put more emphasis on how Karabela looked more than how she behaved, with my commentary being a compliment to her artwork rather than the whole reason for a person clicking onto that commission. Her characterisation remained somewhat surface-level, but complete her we did.
Credits
Artist: GillyeoWalters (stage name; very little online presence so no link)
Analysis and wording: https://www.thecharacterconsultancy.co.uk/
It's pretty standard to say that characters without flaws are boring, but that's not the whole story. What is it about a person who wants a flawless character? What do they want from this fantasy? As I've said before, this is an example of me working on a meta level, more with the person behind the character than that person may realise. That in itself can be problematic if they're trying to project perfection: anxious perfectionists don't enjoy scrutiny.
Flaws can come in a few forms, and not all flaws can really be described as a character's (or person's) fault. The way I work involves a full appraisal of a character, including discussions about how they handled the 'standard' traumas in their lives, which we all experience: the rage of discovering you can't do whatever you want as a toddler, which makes you dissatisfied enough with your parents that you put lots of energy into becoming your own person, or the various emotional pains we go through as teenagers, that often underline all sorts of self-development goals. These experiences often involve us making mistakes, and the characters we design are likely to be no different. The alternative is a character who's born perfect and never changes.
Furthermore, real people and fictional characters alike are prone to learning broken Aesops as a result of their traumas: perhaps they learn "I can't trust anybody" or "I'm worthless" or "it doesn't matter if I hurt other people, so long as I get what I want". We don't all learn our lessons well, and realistically, neither would the characters we make.
I've got a few examples in my back-catalogue of 'perfect' characters: some complete but most imcomplete. There was Adelaide, who I mentioned when I discussed Luca earlier this year. Adelaide's commissioner assured me that everybody in-universe was genuinely amazed by Adelaide's brilliance. That raised a question for me: were people outside of Adelaide's universe meant to be just as impressed, or was she conceived with the awareness that some real-life folk may not be so enchanted, because nobody can be everyone's idea of perfect? I never got to know because Adelaide's creator never contacted me again after I asked that question.
There was also Sinoe (name changed for anonymity), a dragon god who everybody liked, according to his creator. He presented an interesting twist: power. I talked a few months ago about the symbolism of dragons, and one of those symbols is power. I'd already worked a while with Sinoe's creator before and knew he was very eager to make more friends, to the point that he stymied his own creative project by trying to make sure it catered to absolutely everybody who took even the most cursory interest in it. When the project failed, he became depressed and gave his project to somebody else before going quiet, except to ask me to help him make this character.
What made Sinoe interesting even as a 'perfect' character was his combination of power and likeability. These two traits can be difficult bedfellows because friendship tends to thrive under equality or equity, but is threatened if there's a noticeable power imbalance. That's not always the case, but Sinoe's creator wanted Sinoe to be particularly powerful: not just a mere dragon, but a dragon god. He assured me that all of Sinoe's people loved him, I asked if that could really be the case since there will always be people who don't love the powerful figures in their lives: people tend to get a bit funny around the person who holds the power. He replied that "everyone likes Sinoe and anyone who doesn't, doesn't matter lol". So that was the end of that.
Despite their awkwardness together, perfection and power are a fairly common match. In addition to Sinoe, I worked on Duke, who was a foster parent who took on abused children and acted as the perfect parent to them. That aspect made him interesting, but it meant that when his creator asked me to help him explore Duke's character by writing a No Frills about him, he stalled whenever I tried to explore the rocky journey Duke made to becoming somebody strong and dedicated enough to take on a gaggle of foster kids. That's not the sort of thing people do if they've spent their lives living an easy life with no challenges to their morals or skill-set. Somewhere in the middle of the powerless-to-powerful continuum was Mallory, who grew up in a dystopian world but who was, and I quote, "nicer than everyone else". Somehow he managed to live, even thrive, in a dingy and poorly resourced police-state... but then experienced a turning point in his story when he spontaneously developed super-powers. Mallory's creator wanted him to start of with a specific set of powers but warned me to be open to him developing more, as the story he was writing demanded it. In addition, he instructed me that all of Mallory's traumas up to this time were 'cured' by the onset of his powers, so that he acted as a completely non-traumatised individual. I pointed out that this would be dangerous for a character who lived in such a broken world - it made sense for a person to be secretive, good at lying, and jumpy, with so many overly aggressive police around, and in a culture where people were so prepared to treat one another poorly - to rob or steal from or threaten one another that it would undoubtedly happen again. Mallory simply wouldn't be built to survive in such a world any more. His creator gave up on trying to develop Mallory's character with me and went silent on this point of Mallory's development.
Then there was Rayleigh. Ray's creator insisted that Ray was special, so much so that he vastly academically outcompeted his classmates by the age of three and had to be homeschooled. Nevertheless, he presented his parents with no difficulties (or at least, none that his creator was prepared to discuss), and when he became an adolescent and started taking an interest in members of the opposite sex, his creator insisted that most of the girls Ray liked were too shallow for him. He wasn't prepared to explore that idea that his isolation from his peers for 10 or more years might have played a part on his difficulty connecting with others, although I felt sure what would be a problem here. Then, at age 18, Ray was abducted by aliens and transformed to become the ultimate military weapon - not just into a super-soldier who was made immortal and would forever have the physique of a super-fit 18 year old, but also a genius polymath. His brain was programmed to contain the academic knowledge on Earth and beyond. I worked with this, but believed that Ray would likely find offering this knowledge to others incredibly frustrating because he looked far too young to have plausibly learned most of what he knew, and would therefore struggle to be listened to by the right people to make a big difference. It looked to me like Ray would come off as an arrogant know-it-all and would be disregarded in-universe as such. His creator wouldn't hear of this, and insisted that everybody would respect and listen to Ray.
Perfect characters or not, it remains my job to avoid romanticising these characters as much as possible. That includes acknowledging flaws without treating them as ridiculous. It can involve recognising that even if we aim for perfection, the journey to it will involve mistakes and flawed behaviour, thoughts, or feelings. Yet, I can only do so much of this work of accepting these flaws: if my client doesn't want to accept them, then the work of developing their character is either arrested, or becomes a subject of conflict between me and my client. I don't like arguing with my clients but I would rather keep my standards up than avoid conflict for the sake of a peaceful life.
Ironically, one character who seemed almost perfect and who I was able to complete was Karabela; Karabela's creator asked me for an infographic, and this put more emphasis on how Karabela looked more than how she behaved, with my commentary being a compliment to her artwork rather than the whole reason for a person clicking onto that commission. Her characterisation remained somewhat surface-level, but complete her we did.
Credits
Artist: GillyeoWalters (stage name; very little online presence so no link)
Analysis and wording: https://www.thecharacterconsultancy.co.uk/
Category Artwork (Digital) / Miscellaneous
Species Human
Size 2000 x 1448px
File Size 1007.6 kB
Listed in Folders
A great point that this raises is the "Perfect" character in adolescence, as the idea of someone just being born perfect, already with an adult's level of understanding and insight in the world is like... unthinkably unrealistic and just insane to me! It would either mean they were very shy and polite, quiet, or some kind of super baby that had parents which held them to impossible standards, robbing them of their childhood by transposing this perception and consideration well beyond their years onto them. You know me, when it comes to writing, I always take a stance of there being no absolute rules or advice: a seasoned enough writer could pull off a perfect character, but as a main character, that'd be difficult, and you'd have a huge task as an author of helping the audience suspend their disbelief, especially in modern media when there's more of a demand and idea that characters have to be relatable and representative of a person, instead of something to strive for, like Superman. Of course, that breaks into the territory of idols. For the kid angle, I think the best angle to come at that from for the child background, would be simply to say they were happy and had a happy childhood with good parents, perhaps a sibling in the equation, or their maturity and investment from others came from a wish that they had siblings. Some kids are smart and mature for their age. I still remember Gretta from my elementary school days, and Kimberly, and they were both the turbo geniuses of my school and generally seemed mature and compassionate for their age, but they tended to be on the more popular side, and were removed from the less popular kids unless you directly interacted with them, and even then, I think at least in Gretta's case, she wasn't above a mean joke or comment every now and again as we got older, while Kimberly just kind of faded into the background. She was smart and there if you needed her, but increasingly kept to herself. So the Perfect Since Birth character would NEED to have a solid upbringing, media and things as well as role models who inspire them (as m parents fought a lot and my dad drank, so my moral code and ethics often came from a desire not to have others hurt like that, and from cartoons who I idolized), and a smaller sheltered community or town that they're from that allows them to kind of refine their craft or method of making it their business to be a role model and get involved in the business of other people around them, as that's kind of the thing with perfect characters: they will invariably get involved in everyone's business so that these other people can go "Wooooow, you're so awesome and cool!!"
Of course, if you are the outstanding person, there's the issue of being taken advantage of, because not EVERYONE else can be perfect too, and it's seldom where I see that even considered in those kinds of works: how does the perfect person respond to someone actively attempting to exploit them or their perfect wisdom for their own personal gain? The fact you talk to them and try to make them think about these things is admirable, instead of just outright rejecting the notion, and it's a shame that more of them aren't willing to talk and actually put creative thought into what a "perfect" Mary-Sue person would actually be like developmentally! We all know that one person who seemed, and whatever point we get to know them in our lives and theirs, that seem to have all the luck, but for it to be more than that, like some kind of skill or talent, is something that needs to be explained in a way that can be interesting to a reader.
Secondly too, a major question I'd ask is "Would the use that word to define themselves? Do they think they're perfect?" because if humility isn't a part of that equation, the ultimate perception of that character is going to be arrogance or some major flaw of personality. Like for example, you know enough about Boondock at this point to know there's a lot wrong in that skull, but he would ABSOLUTELY believe himself to be perfect before the story had him eventually seek counseling based on the opinion of someone he comes to respect, which only makes his standards and plans for Grifter's life all the more insane. "I'm perfect and you have to surpass me, because I say you can."
Power, intelligence, and Perfections/being without personal flaws seem to be a mix that usually goes hand in hand, and if it's going to be a character, it can't be something that reads as a love letter or promise of the author. "If I had these powers, I'd be responsible! This is what I'd do if my life went this way!" Like the kid who developed super powers in a setting like that? My God, you'd be lucky not to get a Homelander out of that! Learning more about their internal fear that they'd be as bad as everyone else, looking into and exploring their ethics and where they came from, would make that character more interesting immediately, whether they're seen by others as faultless or not, because you'd see how their environment shaped them, and the struggle to uphold their own ideals!
Or the super soldier? Ray? I don't think they'd be able to stand talking to people, because if they had ultimate clarity and understanding/retention of the collected information and knowledge of humanity, by comparison, any conversation they tried to have with anyone else is going to have to be so narrow and surface level, it'd be like trying to talk philosophy with a house cat!! With the Dragon being a Dragon "GOD" I could see an explanation for people overall love to him being because he's a deity and that being some innate attraction in mortal people. Like... I think it's called Push/Pull in rehabilitation of abused children, as often when they're just on the cusp of a breakthrough and have made the most progress, they'll often violently relapse and attack the person they've bonded with. A psychological hypothesis I heard about that is that it's a trust and safety thing, where it's a test for their safety: if you can't protect yourself from them, how are you going to be able to protect them? So the innate or primal sense of safety absolutely from a perfect, non-mortal being, could be an interesting part of the story, especially if the former part of Push/Pull comes into effect. Would people be driven away from them? Feel unsafe? Be pushed to ANOTHER Deity?
I guess my best advice to someone who was dead-set on having a perfect character or Mary Sue, would be to practice writing a LOT first with other works with flawed characters, consider all the different angles and questions on how normal people would react to someone like that, and that perfection couldn't be the start and end of their story! There'd have to be other mechanisms and components there working, like for the Dragon God, or the Super Hero character having to question themselves and have that internal dialogue questioning themselves. Furthermore, the author would need the lived life experience and maturity to have an opinion on what perfect even is, or what would be desirable about a person like that for people to read about. Like just for the UCASC alone, I really had to study and research just to formulate and articulate my ideas on what a Utopia was, and conversely what weren't utopian elements, or what were flaws with our society or things as a whole in the present! If they're going to have a story with something like this, it's important for them to have a STRONG internal voice and opinion, otherwise, like the poor other fellow, you're going to try to appease everyone, or generalize things to the point you g et soup. Standing up to your questions and scrutiny are the best starting points for that!
There's a character I want you to do a character thing on one day, where he is literally the kindest Gh'endeshi out of the entire population. He's the one who set the benchmark, a Mary-Sue for their standards, from a species obsessed with material wealth, success, and tangible results and outcomes instead of abstract concepts that exist nebulously like "Nice" or "Good". Unlike his countrymen, he'd kind, and selfless, thoughtful, and pure of heart, and within the story, he's not looked upon very kindly at all by them, or even really noticed at all, and I'd welcome if not adore any chance to talk about him with you and have you poke at his backstory and how he is like he is, and why!
Of course, if you are the outstanding person, there's the issue of being taken advantage of, because not EVERYONE else can be perfect too, and it's seldom where I see that even considered in those kinds of works: how does the perfect person respond to someone actively attempting to exploit them or their perfect wisdom for their own personal gain? The fact you talk to them and try to make them think about these things is admirable, instead of just outright rejecting the notion, and it's a shame that more of them aren't willing to talk and actually put creative thought into what a "perfect" Mary-Sue person would actually be like developmentally! We all know that one person who seemed, and whatever point we get to know them in our lives and theirs, that seem to have all the luck, but for it to be more than that, like some kind of skill or talent, is something that needs to be explained in a way that can be interesting to a reader.
Secondly too, a major question I'd ask is "Would the use that word to define themselves? Do they think they're perfect?" because if humility isn't a part of that equation, the ultimate perception of that character is going to be arrogance or some major flaw of personality. Like for example, you know enough about Boondock at this point to know there's a lot wrong in that skull, but he would ABSOLUTELY believe himself to be perfect before the story had him eventually seek counseling based on the opinion of someone he comes to respect, which only makes his standards and plans for Grifter's life all the more insane. "I'm perfect and you have to surpass me, because I say you can."
Power, intelligence, and Perfections/being without personal flaws seem to be a mix that usually goes hand in hand, and if it's going to be a character, it can't be something that reads as a love letter or promise of the author. "If I had these powers, I'd be responsible! This is what I'd do if my life went this way!" Like the kid who developed super powers in a setting like that? My God, you'd be lucky not to get a Homelander out of that! Learning more about their internal fear that they'd be as bad as everyone else, looking into and exploring their ethics and where they came from, would make that character more interesting immediately, whether they're seen by others as faultless or not, because you'd see how their environment shaped them, and the struggle to uphold their own ideals!
Or the super soldier? Ray? I don't think they'd be able to stand talking to people, because if they had ultimate clarity and understanding/retention of the collected information and knowledge of humanity, by comparison, any conversation they tried to have with anyone else is going to have to be so narrow and surface level, it'd be like trying to talk philosophy with a house cat!! With the Dragon being a Dragon "GOD" I could see an explanation for people overall love to him being because he's a deity and that being some innate attraction in mortal people. Like... I think it's called Push/Pull in rehabilitation of abused children, as often when they're just on the cusp of a breakthrough and have made the most progress, they'll often violently relapse and attack the person they've bonded with. A psychological hypothesis I heard about that is that it's a trust and safety thing, where it's a test for their safety: if you can't protect yourself from them, how are you going to be able to protect them? So the innate or primal sense of safety absolutely from a perfect, non-mortal being, could be an interesting part of the story, especially if the former part of Push/Pull comes into effect. Would people be driven away from them? Feel unsafe? Be pushed to ANOTHER Deity?
I guess my best advice to someone who was dead-set on having a perfect character or Mary Sue, would be to practice writing a LOT first with other works with flawed characters, consider all the different angles and questions on how normal people would react to someone like that, and that perfection couldn't be the start and end of their story! There'd have to be other mechanisms and components there working, like for the Dragon God, or the Super Hero character having to question themselves and have that internal dialogue questioning themselves. Furthermore, the author would need the lived life experience and maturity to have an opinion on what perfect even is, or what would be desirable about a person like that for people to read about. Like just for the UCASC alone, I really had to study and research just to formulate and articulate my ideas on what a Utopia was, and conversely what weren't utopian elements, or what were flaws with our society or things as a whole in the present! If they're going to have a story with something like this, it's important for them to have a STRONG internal voice and opinion, otherwise, like the poor other fellow, you're going to try to appease everyone, or generalize things to the point you g et soup. Standing up to your questions and scrutiny are the best starting points for that!
There's a character I want you to do a character thing on one day, where he is literally the kindest Gh'endeshi out of the entire population. He's the one who set the benchmark, a Mary-Sue for their standards, from a species obsessed with material wealth, success, and tangible results and outcomes instead of abstract concepts that exist nebulously like "Nice" or "Good". Unlike his countrymen, he'd kind, and selfless, thoughtful, and pure of heart, and within the story, he's not looked upon very kindly at all by them, or even really noticed at all, and I'd welcome if not adore any chance to talk about him with you and have you poke at his backstory and how he is like he is, and why!
Much feedback, very words!
Thank you for such a detailed reply - it seems odd, doesn't it, that all you or I or anyone else need to do is say, "perfect character. Go." and we have thoughts coming out the wazoo!
You mentioned the angle of considering how other characters would respond to a perfect character, and that's such a great point. We don't all respond to someone being great at one thing, let alone everything, with "Oh wow, you're the best, I want to be your best friend and wish I was just like you!" The term "sour grapes" exists for a reason. It would make things interesting, and it sounds like it does with your Gh'endeshi Mary Sue. I hope I do get to work with that character one day because he sounds interesting - not necessarily because of him, although I'm already curious how he could come to be in a culture so different to him - but how he gets responded to. And how he responds to that response.
Hmmmmmmm!!
Thank you for such a detailed reply - it seems odd, doesn't it, that all you or I or anyone else need to do is say, "perfect character. Go." and we have thoughts coming out the wazoo!
You mentioned the angle of considering how other characters would respond to a perfect character, and that's such a great point. We don't all respond to someone being great at one thing, let alone everything, with "Oh wow, you're the best, I want to be your best friend and wish I was just like you!" The term "sour grapes" exists for a reason. It would make things interesting, and it sounds like it does with your Gh'endeshi Mary Sue. I hope I do get to work with that character one day because he sounds interesting - not necessarily because of him, although I'm already curious how he could come to be in a culture so different to him - but how he gets responded to. And how he responds to that response.
Hmmmmmmm!!
Verily! Tis I! The Wordy Bastard: the Wind of Bag!
It's my pleasure! Thought provoking stuff and things that invite conversation and discussion should in turn warrant an equally considerate reply! I used to throw out text bricks a lot more when I was younger too! lol and yeah, there's countless examples of the concept or attempt, and even more examples of its failure, or the trope where they're the twist villain, I suspect, simply because the writer doesn't know what to do with them.
Oh heavens yes! Like in Kimberly's case, she kind of just faded into the background unless you needed help with something and asked her. She was the closest example of a real world example I could think of, and a lot of the time, unless the teacher was calling on her, her success made her more quiet than anything. And on the other end of the perception coin, I can't help but think of the phrase of "Teacher's pet", which more often is how one views someone who is knowledgeable in the rules AND an over-achiever in school! I also find it kinda weirdly funny how most perfect characters are in a school setting, and I think that might be a tell for a younger writer, as that school setting is still their major example of "the real world". And I can't begin to tell you how much I would enjoy the opportunity, as he's also a single parent, and would be considered and outright failure among his people! I was saving some of those details for your other upload about poverty, and I credit your services, your profiles and videos, and questionnaires a lot with his development, as he's one of the few characters that I've actually worked out their whole story from childhood onwards!
lol and to think, in story, so far he's not even been mentioned yet! He's the grandfather of a background character who herself isn't even named, only backhanded by one of the minor antagonists in Infinity Quest book 2!
It's my pleasure! Thought provoking stuff and things that invite conversation and discussion should in turn warrant an equally considerate reply! I used to throw out text bricks a lot more when I was younger too! lol and yeah, there's countless examples of the concept or attempt, and even more examples of its failure, or the trope where they're the twist villain, I suspect, simply because the writer doesn't know what to do with them.
Oh heavens yes! Like in Kimberly's case, she kind of just faded into the background unless you needed help with something and asked her. She was the closest example of a real world example I could think of, and a lot of the time, unless the teacher was calling on her, her success made her more quiet than anything. And on the other end of the perception coin, I can't help but think of the phrase of "Teacher's pet", which more often is how one views someone who is knowledgeable in the rules AND an over-achiever in school! I also find it kinda weirdly funny how most perfect characters are in a school setting, and I think that might be a tell for a younger writer, as that school setting is still their major example of "the real world". And I can't begin to tell you how much I would enjoy the opportunity, as he's also a single parent, and would be considered and outright failure among his people! I was saving some of those details for your other upload about poverty, and I credit your services, your profiles and videos, and questionnaires a lot with his development, as he's one of the few characters that I've actually worked out their whole story from childhood onwards!
lol and to think, in story, so far he's not even been mentioned yet! He's the grandfather of a background character who herself isn't even named, only backhanded by one of the minor antagonists in Infinity Quest book 2!
Real world examples really help with worldbuilding and character design - you can look at people like Kimberly and see a whole person Doing The Thing. She may have been 'perfect' but it was clearly costing her; she gave more than she got from other people, I suspect, and she may have been feeling under pressure to present a certain image of her family. Perhaps mum, dad, or both had obsessive or perfectionist tendencies.
Good lord, can you imagine? I've worked with the occasional client who had parents who expected nothing less than perfection, and it can drive them to some very dark outcomes, including being sectioned. Attempting perfection isn't good for mental health; I strive to offer an approach where it doesn't matter if you're perfect, just lose the shackles and do whatever works. These clients are the most resistant to that, so either I've got honing of my skill to do, or they're simply not ready.
I suppose if you're quiet, you can't say the wrong thing, so it's one way of maintaining perfection. I feel sad for Kimberly.
You might well be right about the link between perfect characters and school! School's such a weird environment. Where else are you fully expected to leave your own values, priorities, beliefs, all of that, at the door, and comply in body and spirit to someone else? We're not even expected to do that at work! When a group of (let's admit it, often stressed and grumpy) teachers insist on certain standards, why should we be surprised if some kids get anxious to comply as best they can?
Ooh, IQ2 is in the works!
Good lord, can you imagine? I've worked with the occasional client who had parents who expected nothing less than perfection, and it can drive them to some very dark outcomes, including being sectioned. Attempting perfection isn't good for mental health; I strive to offer an approach where it doesn't matter if you're perfect, just lose the shackles and do whatever works. These clients are the most resistant to that, so either I've got honing of my skill to do, or they're simply not ready.
I suppose if you're quiet, you can't say the wrong thing, so it's one way of maintaining perfection. I feel sad for Kimberly.
You might well be right about the link between perfect characters and school! School's such a weird environment. Where else are you fully expected to leave your own values, priorities, beliefs, all of that, at the door, and comply in body and spirit to someone else? We're not even expected to do that at work! When a group of (let's admit it, often stressed and grumpy) teachers insist on certain standards, why should we be surprised if some kids get anxious to comply as best they can?
Ooh, IQ2 is in the works!
Oh yeah, I can't even begin to imagine, like trying to get a community behind my works, just thinking about being in that position at the head of a group, where everyone is looking to you, is a little daunting! Like, I'm not sure I'm up to it, and I worry I'll fall flat on my face, and I'm 33!! Kimberly was always one of the Genius kids from pre-School throughout Elementary School, and being THAT young and having everyone looking to you, or Greta, for the answers, to be smart, to know things when the teacher called you, to be ready to field questions whenever, my GOD! I can't begin to imagine what that feels like as a little kid! The pressure must've been unreal!
Like, I think there were 3 people I'd see her hanging out with in her free time (and I think 2 of them were her sisters, it's all a little fuzzy) when she wasn't actively around people, then during class time or more socially like "On" moments, all the 'genius' kids would interact, but I don't think they were all that close. Like, they weren't negative toward each other, they interacted well and talked, but I don't think they were the natural people they'd hang with. In your therapy, I can only begin to imagine how daunting of a mountain that is to climb, because if it's parents who drove that into them you're effectively going to have to have them "Unlearn" the groundwork of their understanding or worldview and start from scratch. If they fit into that role and remember living that life as a kid and WERE popular, or enjoyed the dopamine that came with success or being the top of the leaderboard, then you've got to fight nostalgia and the image they have in their brain and its associated reward! Like, I've gotten better with it, but I used to be really bad for telling myself when I'd look back at my old works that "Oh I was so much more creative before!" or "I could write so much faster when I was younger!" or something like that, so praise from people telling me otherwise often fell before the feet of that little nagging voice in my mind which held the "fun" memories or sense of achievement in the past on an impossible pedestal. You have my admiration just in general squaring up with things like that and getting into the ring of the human mind!
Oh yeah, because as a kid, you're suddenly expected to show up in a strange place, with people you're not really given ample time to get to know, expected to please adults you've never met before, and a lot of things you're just expected to know coming in. I got in trouble in first grade for yawning wrong! When I was little, my folks yawned with volume. I didn't know yawning came with a "silent", so when I yawned and got met with a sarcastic "Are we boring you" (btw, sarcasm towards a first grader, lol very mature!) I was just confused like "No, I just had to yawn was all", and they responded with "well you can yawn quietly or go out in the hall.", I was like "WTF, how do you yawn quietly! That's not a thing!" and had my whole world rocked! But it's also the time where you first meet people you're going to be around the most, and make friends that you're going to see most of the week for YEARS! It's its own world, and to a degree also sheltered from the stresses of adulthood just waiting for you. I can see it having some bleed-over into creative works.
lol God willing! I need to start pumping them out faster!! That downtime last year where I got so sick REALLY hobbled me!
Like, I think there were 3 people I'd see her hanging out with in her free time (and I think 2 of them were her sisters, it's all a little fuzzy) when she wasn't actively around people, then during class time or more socially like "On" moments, all the 'genius' kids would interact, but I don't think they were all that close. Like, they weren't negative toward each other, they interacted well and talked, but I don't think they were the natural people they'd hang with. In your therapy, I can only begin to imagine how daunting of a mountain that is to climb, because if it's parents who drove that into them you're effectively going to have to have them "Unlearn" the groundwork of their understanding or worldview and start from scratch. If they fit into that role and remember living that life as a kid and WERE popular, or enjoyed the dopamine that came with success or being the top of the leaderboard, then you've got to fight nostalgia and the image they have in their brain and its associated reward! Like, I've gotten better with it, but I used to be really bad for telling myself when I'd look back at my old works that "Oh I was so much more creative before!" or "I could write so much faster when I was younger!" or something like that, so praise from people telling me otherwise often fell before the feet of that little nagging voice in my mind which held the "fun" memories or sense of achievement in the past on an impossible pedestal. You have my admiration just in general squaring up with things like that and getting into the ring of the human mind!
Oh yeah, because as a kid, you're suddenly expected to show up in a strange place, with people you're not really given ample time to get to know, expected to please adults you've never met before, and a lot of things you're just expected to know coming in. I got in trouble in first grade for yawning wrong! When I was little, my folks yawned with volume. I didn't know yawning came with a "silent", so when I yawned and got met with a sarcastic "Are we boring you" (btw, sarcasm towards a first grader, lol very mature!) I was just confused like "No, I just had to yawn was all", and they responded with "well you can yawn quietly or go out in the hall.", I was like "WTF, how do you yawn quietly! That's not a thing!" and had my whole world rocked! But it's also the time where you first meet people you're going to be around the most, and make friends that you're going to see most of the week for YEARS! It's its own world, and to a degree also sheltered from the stresses of adulthood just waiting for you. I can see it having some bleed-over into creative works.
lol God willing! I need to start pumping them out faster!! That downtime last year where I got so sick REALLY hobbled me!
"In your therapy, I can only begin to imagine how daunting of a mountain that is to climb, because if it's parents who drove that into them you're effectively going to have to have them "Unlearn" the groundwork of their understanding or worldview and start from scratch."
Ooh, let's see. Well, it helps a lot if the client's ready. If they're not, then that's an uphill struggle I'd lose every time.
There's a neat little structure I use to assess where a client's at in therapy, or whether they're even ready at all. It goes: motivation, awareness, treatment contract, deconfusion of the Child (yep, that's the Inner Child you hear about once in a while!), decontamination (which sounds more drastic than it is. This means teasing out what your beliefs are, and what's actual fact (e.g., "everybody hates me") so you don't end up unduly limiting your options in life), relearning (getting used to the new habits you've decided on), and termination (not the Arnie type! Just terminating therapy).
Those first three are the ones that make a difference for all that unlearning work you mentioned. They have to be motivated to put their part of the work in. If they're not coming to me with the frustration of a thousand fiery suns, they probably won't be doing the work. Awareness is the bit where I show them some bits of psychoeducation so we can explore the main concepts and themes we'll be working with. This helps me know what's really what, too.
Then "treatment contract" means what we're actually agreeing to work on. That can change over time, or people can do something different to what they expected.
"If they fit into that role and remember living that life as a kid and WERE popular, or enjoyed the dopamine that came with success or being the top of the leaderboard, then you've got to fight nostalgia and the image they have in their brain and its associated reward!"
Then that client isn't ready to work. Please excuse the bluntness, it's not intended, but this one's not ready. We learn what to do in order to please our parents and teachers early on, and while it works, it suits us well enough even if it comes with a cost. Then we grow up, move out of home and school, and find ourselves among very different people who either want different things from us, or not very much at all. That's when those survival strategies, even being at the top of a school leaderboard, no longer help. Many people come to therapy because that old skill set isn't working and they don't have a new one. It's usually when they reach a crisis point with that that they come. That crisis is something worth recovering from, but anything less intense than that isn't worth many peoples' time and effort uprooting their personality.
"I've gotten better with it, but I used to be really bad for telling myself when I'd look back at my old works that "Oh I was so much more creative before!" or "I could write so much faster when I was younger!" or something like that, so praise from people telling me otherwise often fell before the feet of that little nagging voice in my mind which held the "fun" memories or sense of achievement in the past on an impossible pedestal."
Ah, here you go, see! So remember how the second stage of that 7-stage structure was "awareness"? This is why awareness is in there. At first, you rejected more recent praise, perhaps hadn't twigged that you were holding your past self on a pedestal, and just felt miserable about it. Then you became aware. Perhaps a while later, you became frustrated with it - why turn people and their lovely comments away, especially if your past self wasn't as perfect as your memories make them out to be? Why not just accept and enjoy them? Once you realised that, you were able to decide your own treatment contract (whatever 'accept the compliment' looks like to you). Good work!
"You have my admiration just in general squaring up with things like that and getting into the ring of the human mind!"
This is interesting! This isn't the first time I've heard someone suggest that therapy is a fight and that I'm overpowering my clients. While there is an uneven power dynamic, I'm not winning against my clients so much as acting as a foster-parent of sorts. There's a whole sub-discipline in transactional analysis called "reparenting", and while it isn't the angle I've learned TA from, it's an accurate enough description of what I do. Actually, my transference tends to be more like a big sister. Anything I can do to help guide people towards change, acceptance, or whatever the ideal outcome looks like for them!
"I got in trouble in first grade for yawning wrong! When I was little, my folks yawned with volume."
Huh, how about that! I didn't get in trouble at school for this, but my dad used to grunt while sitting down, as if his hips were really stiff or something. I just picked up the habit, and it was only years later that my mum pointed out that you don't have to do that. Isn't it funny, the things we don't even realise about ourselves?
Ooh, let's see. Well, it helps a lot if the client's ready. If they're not, then that's an uphill struggle I'd lose every time.
There's a neat little structure I use to assess where a client's at in therapy, or whether they're even ready at all. It goes: motivation, awareness, treatment contract, deconfusion of the Child (yep, that's the Inner Child you hear about once in a while!), decontamination (which sounds more drastic than it is. This means teasing out what your beliefs are, and what's actual fact (e.g., "everybody hates me") so you don't end up unduly limiting your options in life), relearning (getting used to the new habits you've decided on), and termination (not the Arnie type! Just terminating therapy).
Those first three are the ones that make a difference for all that unlearning work you mentioned. They have to be motivated to put their part of the work in. If they're not coming to me with the frustration of a thousand fiery suns, they probably won't be doing the work. Awareness is the bit where I show them some bits of psychoeducation so we can explore the main concepts and themes we'll be working with. This helps me know what's really what, too.
Then "treatment contract" means what we're actually agreeing to work on. That can change over time, or people can do something different to what they expected.
"If they fit into that role and remember living that life as a kid and WERE popular, or enjoyed the dopamine that came with success or being the top of the leaderboard, then you've got to fight nostalgia and the image they have in their brain and its associated reward!"
Then that client isn't ready to work. Please excuse the bluntness, it's not intended, but this one's not ready. We learn what to do in order to please our parents and teachers early on, and while it works, it suits us well enough even if it comes with a cost. Then we grow up, move out of home and school, and find ourselves among very different people who either want different things from us, or not very much at all. That's when those survival strategies, even being at the top of a school leaderboard, no longer help. Many people come to therapy because that old skill set isn't working and they don't have a new one. It's usually when they reach a crisis point with that that they come. That crisis is something worth recovering from, but anything less intense than that isn't worth many peoples' time and effort uprooting their personality.
"I've gotten better with it, but I used to be really bad for telling myself when I'd look back at my old works that "Oh I was so much more creative before!" or "I could write so much faster when I was younger!" or something like that, so praise from people telling me otherwise often fell before the feet of that little nagging voice in my mind which held the "fun" memories or sense of achievement in the past on an impossible pedestal."
Ah, here you go, see! So remember how the second stage of that 7-stage structure was "awareness"? This is why awareness is in there. At first, you rejected more recent praise, perhaps hadn't twigged that you were holding your past self on a pedestal, and just felt miserable about it. Then you became aware. Perhaps a while later, you became frustrated with it - why turn people and their lovely comments away, especially if your past self wasn't as perfect as your memories make them out to be? Why not just accept and enjoy them? Once you realised that, you were able to decide your own treatment contract (whatever 'accept the compliment' looks like to you). Good work!
"You have my admiration just in general squaring up with things like that and getting into the ring of the human mind!"
This is interesting! This isn't the first time I've heard someone suggest that therapy is a fight and that I'm overpowering my clients. While there is an uneven power dynamic, I'm not winning against my clients so much as acting as a foster-parent of sorts. There's a whole sub-discipline in transactional analysis called "reparenting", and while it isn't the angle I've learned TA from, it's an accurate enough description of what I do. Actually, my transference tends to be more like a big sister. Anything I can do to help guide people towards change, acceptance, or whatever the ideal outcome looks like for them!
"I got in trouble in first grade for yawning wrong! When I was little, my folks yawned with volume."
Huh, how about that! I didn't get in trouble at school for this, but my dad used to grunt while sitting down, as if his hips were really stiff or something. I just picked up the habit, and it was only years later that my mum pointed out that you don't have to do that. Isn't it funny, the things we don't even realise about ourselves?
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