Yeah, I always look over all the decals on the front windows of businesses to make sure I can enter without breaking the law. Unfortunately, there aren't too many places one can secure and conceal a large revolver on a motorcycle!

you dont have any 'saddle bags'?

Not on a sport bike. Besides, saddlebags can be removed. I often have to resort to locking the gun beneath the seat, behind the tail light assembly. It barely fits in there (the gun is 10 inches long).

I did an ethics paper on weapons ownership

and?

And what?

What were your findings?

Well it was just a research paper. Put I concluded that there is nothing inherently immoral with owning a gun

Well, that's good to hear. Otherwise I'd be a very immoral man. But what's the connection between morals and ethics here?

Ethics is the study of morals

So true

am i the only one whose glad for the CCW people around me in case the russians or aliens invade?

WOLVERINES!!!!!! :P

Funny, I kept thinking about firearms owners when I was playing Homefront, and couldn't help but keep crying out that when I was playing.

Only funny the first few times you hear it in Multiplayer, however. We did secure the Hooters, OTOH, which was insanely popular with all the folks online. In part because it was being used as a sniper's roost, and in part because, it was a Hooters.

Or zombies. Don't forget the zombies.

of course anyone who forgets the zombies is the main course.

Do small arms work on zombies? Just punching holes in someone who's already dead doesn't seem too effective. I'm thinking, you need something that can actually do structural damage--removing arms, legs, heads, etc--to stop them.

for running zombies i reccomend, shoot to the chest (or knees if you can hit em) then wwhen theyre winded or slowed down, hit the head.


for slow zombies only shoot the ones that are close enough to grab you, aim for the head. dont waste too much ammo. and dont forget just because they dont have a pulse, dosent mean that the laws dont work, you break a zombies legs, it wont stand up again. etc.

im to worried about the fact that china constantly hacks us...

why cant those anons actually do something usefull and use theyre skills simply to make the world more stable?

I know right!?

*nods* and instead they use it to attack the people who are trying to keep the dumbass people of the world from burning it all down. wonder how powerfull theyd be without theyre precious internet? because that pretty much sadly where this world is headed, along with nuclear winter.

pretty much...

in my weirdo twist up thinking, im opposed to the whole gun as a "rights" issue, but as well i have the the disturbing urge to HAVE a gun, just in my house, on the wall, functional so if me and my pals want to compete in gunnery skills yes.

I would never walk with a gun on my person, that sense of power is nerve racking , which can be debated by the philosophy of whether in the supposed situation to be the controller of life and death, then again , give that inalienable right to society without restriction (which you can agree or not , that some gun lobbyists are actually campaigning for) then you'd have ultimate anarchy on your hand.

..... * scratches head* ah well, i rather have a rifle than a pistol , and as well why sell automatic assault guns to civilians?, sure collectors love them but damn .

hey i would love your opinion too, not trying to be preachy , just grew up in a country without a gun culture AT ALL (I,E the state is pointing the guns at US)

In Arizona, any adult non criminal who has at least 99$ can afford a handgun of some kind and can carry it openly or concealed on their person 24/7. So far we don't have a big anarchy problem that I'm aware of. Really carrying a gun becomes more of a chore and a habit after a while, something you worry about or: "how bad am I imprinting?!", self defense and defense of others is pretty nerve wracking, it's not a powertrip. Come visit and try it out anytime, you'll find out that the anti gunners have been lying to you.

Well technically the Second Amendment gives us the right to "bear arms" to defend ourselves and this nation. In modern america we often look at this as Firearms, but arms by definition is Weapons in general.. ie. Knives, clubs, swords, guns, etc. So you don't have to be a gun owner to exorcise this right, however, considering both criminals and tyrannical governments employ the strongest weapons they can get their hands on its only fair we do the same thus the big issue on guns.

I can understand being uneasy about carrying a weapon yourself, but remember you don't have to be a CCW holder to benefit from it. The guy next to you could be a CCW holder for all you know and a criminal won't know which one of you is armed so s/he has to be very careful who they chose to make a victim. A wrong choice could mean hospitalization or worse for them so it becomes a deterant for criminals to just attack someone on the whim. Most states have some kind of CCW law on the books, many which honor other state's CCW license, and some having what's known as Constitutional Carry. None of them have devolved into Anarchy like you fear, if anything places that have gun bans on the books have been practically turned into war zones like Chicago, Camden, and Washington DC. Criminals know they have cities full of victims to prey on because the residents can't defend themselves and the cops are overworked/understaffed to prevent it.

As for the automatic assault rifles, to be claissifed as an Assault Rifle it much be capable of what's called "Selective Fire" which is the ability to switch between semi-automatic (one shot per trigger pull) and fully automatic (rapid fire by holding down the trigger). Only a handful of states permit their citizens to own assault weapons if they pay heavy priced tax stamps. Most states only permit semi-automatic weapons only. So that "scary black" AR-15, having been restricted to semi-automatic, is no different mechanically then a semi-automatic hunting rifle. The only difference is looks. The difference between a Ford Mustang and a Mustang GT is that big V8 engine, without that V8 its just another sporty car vs a muscle car. Its the same thing with these "scary black rifles."

I've never quite gotten why you can carry a concealed weapon in the USA, but not wear one openly. Franky, I'd rather SEE the damned things in the open and know what I'm dealing with... (and plan my kills accordingly! - wait... did I say that out aloud?)

Arrr - Zurich had to pass a law in the 1500's restricting the right to carry 2 handed swords over your shoulder on market days or in crowded city streets. Now THERE'S a bylaw for you! (and I believe it is still illegal to fire a longbow from the second story of any house in the borough of Westminster!)

You can legally carry a broadsword in most of California so long as it's not concealed. You'll be harassed by cops that want to get it off you, so best ask for a receipt and a badge number or it'll never get to the station.

California has some of the toughest (Read nearly impossible unless you're connected) gun carry laws but their knife laws are surprisingly lax. 14" folding knife in your jacket? OK! Broadsword at your hip? OK!

yup i used to carry a sword it was more a boarding cutlass in Northern Calif from the 70's to the 80's when i left because i saw the writing on the wall and GTFOed was hassled a few times when asked WHY i was packing that i would say "1. it never runs out of ammo, 2. it won't disturb the peace should i need to use it, and 3. it worked well in confined spaces like alleys other places the vermin of society like to congregate. Besides 9 out of 10 times is scares the piss out of the guy pulling a knife on me. learn how to use it and it can work quite well twas a good little hack-n-slasher

Some states allow open carry, Arizona, where both myself and Karno are baking... I mean living..., does, for example. States that ban open carry do it because there is a long history of people whining about stupid shit, concealing in Arizona just saves you from certain hassles, like if you are eating in an establishment that serves alcohol, or dealing with all the people who have moved here from
California and are terrified that your handgun may come to life and rape their toddler.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/11987.....dad_guns_kill/

Boston had one f the earliest US gun control laws. It regulated where and when privately-owned cannon could be fired, due to noise and risk of fires. Note that no attempt was made to register cannon owners, or prevent their ownership.

And your irresponsible cannon ownership is why you aren't allowed to go back to boston!

how was I to know that a 12 pound iron ball would pass through all those wooden buildings?

Did you know Australia has firearm laws - but that a firearm is only considered as being a portable weapon up to .50 cal? So cannons are legal! I can see a whole new look for "home defence" here, if only the USA would embrace this enlightened attitude!

No worries, mate, I've seen some of your spiders. I can see why they'd want to keep howitzers legal.

Concealed Carry is really for the benefit of those around you. There are those who are uneasy or fearful around guns and those who are anti-gun that will make a huge stink about it. Some might even get the police involved thinking its illegal for you to be carrying or just to give you a bad day. Some police don't even know the carry laws so they'll harass you and maybe even arrest you for openly carrying. Just look at Insane Kangaroo. He got himself banned from Anthrocon because the local authorities didn't know the open carry laws and arrested him for openly carrying outside the con in Pittsburgh. On the plus side though it acts as a deterrent for criminals because they don't know who is armed and who isn't so just attacking someone on the whim could get them hospitalized or killed. In a nutshell its better for the public and safer for you to conceal carry, but that's just my opnion.

That's no exactly why he was banned, there's open carry, and "in your face!" carry. I'm familiar with his situation for reasons of my own, and let's face it, you don't EVER pull a gun out of your bag in he airport and strap it on, that's a bad start, even in Arizona, and yes, I know he was outside the "sterile area". Doesn't matter.

"In your face!" carry is often employed by those looking for a fight with authorities. He was just being a dumbass about how he carried that day in the air port and I've even called him out on that. Of course that's not the only incident that led to his banning. There were others that occurred like the restaurant incident where he just had it holstered on his hip and someone called the cops. The officer arrived, didn't know the laws, and flat out arrested him. Regardless though, imo open carry might seem like a good idea but it isn't worth the constant bullshit you put yourself through to do it.

Open belt carry is actually legal in most of the western US and some eastern states, Paul.
Its subject to some restrictions, but even Calironia allows open belt carry in many areas.

-Badger-

Waah - but why not with swords?

You can open carry a sword in California.

Just don't expect to not be harassed by the cops.

Only law-abiding people jump through legal hoops? Many permits are in place to keep big names in business and discourage small timers from stepping in and getting a foothold. But that's a general statement and not entirely appropriate for conceal carry. Anyone at all can buy a weapon, in cash, for possibly more than going through legal channels, and tuck it in a coat pocket. Instant conceal carry. Live in county land? You're probably legally able to fire just about anything so long as you don't damage someones property. A .22 can kill and the ammo is dirt cheap at around a penny for two dozen. New pistols can be had for under $200. Cut your Cable TV for a few months and you can afford that.

Forbid private sales for a decade, track conceal carry and violent gun-related crimes, then come to me and tell me conceal carry lowers crime rates.

Ummm... GOD I want to comment on what you said but I have no idea what the fuck it is.... Are you saying concealed carry holders are committing violent crimes? O.0. Speaking as law enforcement, I can tell you that this would be pretty much 100% wrong... I'm not saying that Boone with a permit ever breaks the law, but the general statement that people who actually DO go through the motions to get their CCW are some of the most law abiding people in America IS statistically correct.

in what country are you buying your .22s? A box of fifty of the cheap stuff is now over $3 a box.

I apologize for my mistake in decimal places. It should be "a couple dozen per dollar." That is definitely gross negligence on my part and anyone making 75 cents or less per day would draw concern from my mathematical mistake.

I still can't tell if you are pro or anti gun...

I support that view 100%, heck it might even bring down gun related street crimes. If I was some 2-bit punk I'd hesitate to rob someone if I thought there was a good chance they were carrying a gun.

2nd amendment rights FTW. I've always said that gun control laws are stupid, because criminals--the people we don't want to have guns--don't obey laws in the first place.

totally agree. guns aren't a problem. it's the retards that abuse their power with a gun.

(*Applause!*)

I live in the UK where in Chester we can shoot a Welsh person with a bow and arrow inside the city walls after midnight but we are not allowed to own handguns for sport or self defence.

Which is a *good* thing, regardless of how much bullshit Karno wants to peddle about how "home invasions by criminals are rampant in England" (they aren't) or "Scotland is the most violent Western nation" (it isn't a nation, and no it isn't).

Yeah, but now cheap katanas are now illegal to own in England because some guy got attacked or killed by one. That's definitely a law for the books. It's funny as hell.

I'm tempted to print this and hand it out to the workers at establishments that display those "no concealed weapons" signs.

Usually those signs only display a handgun, so I just continue carrying my Ti-Lite VI folding knife.

I dislike gun intensely, and wouldn't care to own or fire any meself. That said, I'm all for reasoned and responsible gun ownership. And I'm very glad to know that the majority of gun owners in the Furry community seem to fall under that category. More power to ya.

Honestly I have to ask and I'm not trying to be rude about this, but how do you know you don't like guns if you're not willing to fire one at a range with a responsible friend? Only reason I ask is because a lot of people I've met who claim to despise guns have never been around a real gun never the less fired one and are so deeply rooted in their opinions they won't try it in fear their opinion may change instead of re-affirming their beliefs. Only a handful I've met who claim to dislike guns have actually fired one and said it wasn't for them.

Well, I'm part of that handful now, m'friend! I've fired guns several times in my life, as a kid at camp, and in pistol training in US Navy boot camp. I was consistently nervous as hell and lousy with them. I don't begrudge anyone the reasonable exercise of their Second Amendment rights, but it's just not something I care to do anymore.

Fair nuff. Some people don't like fire or explosives either! I can't imagine why not but to each his own.

Unfortunately this is how many Anti-Gunners see Gun owners/CCW holders.

I am an American citizen, and I approve of this message :)

I'd rather live with a positive outlook on life, myself.

Well, you COULD pass an open-carry law, and then have snipers conveniently placed on rooftops to give anyone who open-carries a third eye, but that would be evil. Like openly carrying a gun everywhere so you could say whatever you want and people won't disagree with you because, hey, you just might 'act in self defense'.

That's because a gun-less society doesn't always work when you factor culture into the equation. The USA was founded through the strength of its people armed with firearms, the "Wild West" was tamed mostly be armed men & women defending themselves, firearms helped put food in the stomachs of our people, and to a degree our government has been kept in check by armed citizens. The firearm is considered an integral part of our history and strongly linked to our sense of freedom. So responsibly owning a firearm and exorcising your right to defend yourself is considered a long standing tradition here. Stripping away Americans of their guns is akin to stripping away their rights and freedom. I'm sure we can all agree if America was founded and defended with the sword & shield it would be different.

As for fear and paranoia, come here and try walking the streets of Camden, Chicago, or even our our capitol Washing DC at night. Gangs and other kinds of thugs roam the streets at night and when there isn't a cop in sight they won't hesitate to kill you if you attempt to defend yourself when they try to mug or rape you. Sometimes they won't have a gun on them, but some other weapon like a knife, bat/club, or just sheer numbers to use against you. Sounds like a movie doesn't it? Well that's life is some parts of America, namely the parts that ban gun ownership. I live in one of the most anti-gun states in the union and in many of our cities this isn't uncommon on some degree.

Comparing a gun to a hammer is not so contrasting as you think. Just as the hammer has long since been known for putting nails in their place, they've also been used as tools of death and destruction. The firearm also has a long standing history in hunting to provide food and this still happens today. There is still a large part of America that is rural where firearms are a necessary means of defense against the wild life as well as providing food on the table though hunting. Yes the firearm can be used as a tool to kill, but as I said before so can the hammer.

I think its sad that it seems like we're the only ones that acknowledge there is evil in the world and some of us are willing to deal with it ourselves if it endangers our lives because when seconds count the police are often minutes away at best. After all this isn't the movies where a cop will magically appear in the nick of time to save the day, that's nothing but fantasy. The harsh reality is the police are understaffed and overworked, in some cases around the country their numbers are being reduced to skeleton crews if not completely shut down due to the recession. There's not enough cops to put on every street corner and cameras can't replace officers. And if you think a cell phone will save you then you're still in denial of the evils in the world because the bad guys won't pause to let you dial 911. The first thing that will happen is you will be jumped before or when you attempt to pull the phone out, the wind will get knocked out of you so you can't scream, and if you were smart enough to let go of the phone your hand won't get broken as they stomp on the phone to smash it. Even if you or a witness manages to successfully dial 911 you're still looking at a few minutes before an officer can get to the scene. By that point the damage has been done and they're long gone which hopefully you survived the ordeal. If they see or have a weapon used against them they'll back off if they don't want to end up in the hospital or a body bag and that's the cold hard truth.

I somehow doubt that the "less than 5 murders per year" is accurate, and that's assuming there's nothing else bad that ever happens. How about rape, kidnapping, attacks that don't quite end in death, things of that nature? I'm very nearly 2 meters tall, around 82 kg, a very skilled fighter, with a pain tolerance so high that submission holds that depend on pain for compliance rather than "not snapping limb off" or things like a shot to the groin do not affect me in any way shape or form. Do you think a ~1.525 meter, 45 kg girl has any chance against someone like me if she were to be attacked? If she has a gun and knows how to use it, then all of that is nearly irrelevant. Without the gun, the scales tip heavily in the favor of whoever is larger and heavier and stronger and so on.

No responsible person who concealed carry WANTS to have to use it. They carry it with the hopes that it will NEVER be needed, because if it is needed that means they have been forced into a life or death situation. They carry with the recognition that there are bad people in the world (or things that think you would be tasty out in nature), and that they'd like to be as well or better armed than those people that would do them harm. Since there are plenty of guns that can be easily produced from basically anything (look up zip guns made by prisoners and tell me that if guns were banned, no criminals could get them if they really wanted them. Or look up the STEN, designed to be as quickly and easily produced with basic tools), the only logical choice to make a small woman or an 80 year old man the equivalent of a 19 year old ganger with practice fighting due to bad decision making and maybe some bodybuilding in prison is a gun.

I could probably shower you with facts and logical arguments and things like how a cursory google search put the most recent lowest murder rate at around 650 per year (which, admittedly IS fairly low, but you may not have one demographic that massively skews things higher the way the states do), but it would be unlikely to have any effect, so I'll agree with your policy of live and let live. Or, "think the English are terrified sheep blaming human nature on anything sharper than a non-USA football" and "think Americans are uncivilized paranoid nutjobs who live in fear of everything because they don't have the benefit of superior English everything". We both have our positions and probably won't be too inclined to change them, so good day/night/whatever to you sir or madam (can never be sure on the internet)

(Seriously, the UK tried to ban pint glasses made of glass because glass can break and be sharp. That seems just a wee tad excessive)
(Why the heck did whoever named American football call it that, it screws with the filing system and now it's set in people's minds so it can't be changed to something that actually describes it)

Just for a bit of a facepalm you might want to read this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7139724.stm ban on imitation samurai swords

"if you go out and you feel you need to carry a gun, it must be because you presume that you will NEED the gun."

I've gotta chime in on this. So I guess you'd wear a seatbelt only when you expect to crash? Do you get life insurance only if you expect to die at any moment? A gun is a tool and protective gear. It's not because you plan to be faced with the situation where it becomes useful, it's because the consequences of being in such a situation without one is so negative, and you want to have that option open if necessary.

If I'm driving across a large desert, you can bet my car is going to have emergency water and supplies in it, just in case. Carrying is no different. Is this living in fear, or is it just being prepared in case of the worst?

This is very true.

Sad thing is that CCW are on a list of CCW holders, and if they ban guns guess who they come for first?

Irrelevant really. While there is no gun registration per say you still have to pass a Federal NICS check. They know whether or not you applied and were approved to own firearms. They don't need to know what you have, just that you own or attempted to obtain.

unless you were denied purchase as a result of the check, these records are supposed to be destroyed within 90 days per federal law.

Yeah but I mean they have a list, you applied for a permit approved so you carry, and own a gun, so they know. also, maybe they do it back door, make regs for the ammo, so you cant reload your own ammo, cartridges changed, etc.

I'd assume that the "NO guns" sign is simply there to escalate the penalty for bringing a gun.
Whereas a person would be given a fair but harsh sentence for armed robbery; a person committing armed robbery in a no guns zone must be given an even more lengthly sentence to fulfill.

Typically having a gun in such a store results in one of two outcomes: Either A) you're asked to leave by the store owner/clerk or B) the store owner/clerk calls the cops and they ask you to leave. Failure to do so results in an arrest. Usually said person, unless there to rob the store, will just take their business elsewhere if they didn't see the sign and are asked to leave.

Essentially it's meaningless.

An owner or manager of private property can always ask you to leave at any time for any reason, and call the cops if you don't.

The 'no guns' sign is just putting it out up front that if you are carrying and someone working there finds out you WILL be asked to leave, and they may call the cops anyway.

Either way, you most likely wouldn't get in actual trouble as long as you aren't a jerk about it, and leave when they ask, or even better, don't give them your business in the first place.

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog.....ns-allowed.png

Shame you cant legally stick that sticker below a no guns sign on a business.

Dude, I love you so much right now. Me and hubby have CCW discussions SO often and we definitely agree with this.

Right on, Karno!

An armed society is a polite society.

Although I'm wondering how the hell Canadians like myself got the reputation...

You are honest, you are funny and you are really showing the absurdity of the legal situation.

im planning on being a permit carrying wolfy soon. i dont trust cities, my first name is vernon and i lived in the woods for a good number of years before i joined the airforce ^.^

America has a lot more guns than Iceland, but Iceland has still put more corrupt bankers in jail. So I guess it's not how many guns you have, but knowing who the enemy is.

Yeah, there's signs like that at many colleges. They don't even want you carrying a pocket knife (which is BULLSHIT). Ironically it was places where the residents can't defend themselves or even carry items with which to defend themselves that some of the worse massacres happened when a law breaking nut with weapons went on a killing spree, like that massacre at Virginia Tech.

That's part of why I'd never like to live in New York state or City. In the city, the cops are free to reinterpret the law for knives any way they want to determine if it's something like a gravity knife. One took a tiny lockback pocketknife off my father once and said it's illegal because it's a gravity knife. Yet surprisingly I could still carry mine which locked like a swiss army knife but was very tough and hard to open, but the same size as my father's knife. Makes me happy I live in Western PA.

But for weapon laws, one that still gets me is that BudK.com refuses to sell batons of any type (spring, expanding and police) to PA, despite the fact that they are legal (I've even sent an email about this to the state representative and he said there's no problem with such items), and looked up the law. All the law mentions is blackjacks being illegal. Only place I can find that may say the items are illegal is the city of Philadelphia. I've since refused to do any business with them any more, even after sending them the email from the state representative and continually getting their bullshit reply of "we evaluate the laws of every state to determine where we can legally ship items". I had even told them of other companies like sportsmansguide.com that follow those same laws and restrict shipping to certain places, but will still ship batons to PA.

Silly question but if you have a concealed carry license does that mean you still can't bring a weapon into say a 7-11 with a sign in the front? Do you need a CCL to have a firearm say in your car?